through noon. the fallout from these fast moving developments. this is not the largest tax cuts in american history, it is the most significant in a generation. it will change the way you live. see you tomorrow. >> ♪ >> ♪ >> hello i am dana perino with rachael, richard, tucker carlson and this is the "the five." the stunning steinle verdict in san francisco in a moment. a break new development on the mueller investigation in washington. former national security advisor michael flynn appeared in federal court and pleaded guilty to lying about his conversations with the russian ambassador last

december. catherrine harris wased in the courthouse and joins us now. anything new? >> one of the most interesting developments coming out of the reporting by another colleague, bret baier. we got information that in the spring of this year fbi director james comey testified in the closed door session his agency concluded that flynn made some bad decisions or did not remember things properly and seemed confused about the timeline of events in december. they didn't believe he had deliberately misled them. that's significant because if you fast forward to today, the special counsel investigators under robert mueller concluded there was a deliberate effort by flynn to mislead the fbi about his contacts with the russian ambassador and flynn agreed in court today. in court today he was very composed and reached inside of

himself to have that soldier's discipline. the 33 years of service in the military allowed him to hold it together as he made the guilty plea which is a felony. the other interesting thing tonight in the court records there were two members of the trump transition team who received information about the conversation with the russian ambassador. we believe that to be macfarland. and a more senior person who was directing flynn to reach out to a number of countries including russia. we believe that to be jared kushner. this caveat: we were told it was not like kushner said to flynn you go out and just talk to the russians. it was a dividing up of the phone calls. they were tasked with a certain amount of outreach at that time.

it's not as sinister sounding as it is in the black-and-white of the court documents. we believe the senior person was jared kushner and he testifyed to that in his session with the special counsel in november. >> thank you very much. around the table. i worked for the justice department for about a year and approach these things with caution. i am waiting to see what else will happen out of this. i don't think we know the full story yet. what do you think? >> well, i like to focus on the media. they remind me of a contestant on price is right. they expected a brand new car which was russian collusion and they got a crock pot which is a lie committed by pleading guilty to it. it happened after the election. the ecstatic medial be ecstatic for a few days and it will wear off. they will realize this is a far cry from what they wanted.

they are seeding turf on this. this is far from what they dreamt. what bugs me about this, why this meeting took place. was it anything nefarious? no, it was something, in my opinion, nobel and correct. . to get russia involved in fighting terror and isis. their version of a reset button that made sense. it may or may not have happened. that's what this was about. tucker, you are giving me that weird look you give people on your show. >> i agree with everything you say. >> you say that to people you are about to yell at. >> i think general flynn did do something wrong. took money from a foreign government on his way to be the national security advisor. i don't think you can defend that. i am ashamed he did that. that's not what he is being punished for. he is being punished for lying

which is the classic charge you level when you don't have the underlying charge proved. is there a prime in contacting russia to talk about coordinating your efforts to defeat isis. >> there is a lot -- >> what bugs me is the idea of speaking to russia is in itself a crime. >> i don't think that's what the prosecuting documents are saying. they say he lied to the fbi, number 1. they used that as a carrot and stick to say we will charge you for just this one crime so you can tell us what else you know. in his statement to the press he indicated i plan on fully cooperating with the special counsel. >> what is the underlying crime? >> we don't know that yet. when you are a transitioning government, when the obama administration was still the government in control, talking

to a foreign agency what you will and won't do is against the logan act. only one administration can talk to a foreign government at one time. he did violate a law. we will see what mueller does here. >> how is that different than when obama said i will have more flexibility after the election. >> when did he say that? >> obama said that. >> what i mean it's a transition. they are signaling to these people, these others countries, policies will change. greg brings up a really good point -- >> looking past your first show. >> [laughing] >> you bring up a point. there is a giddiness like the kind we saw with rachael when she thought she had the big texas thing. you are right. they got a crock pot.

what they want to do is top the trump agenda. trump was just the vehicle for this agenda. whether all of this russia stuff happens or not it leads to democrats again down this little street off of what they need to do. what they need to do is figure out why they lost working class americans. that's why they lost the election and not russia. >> i will give you that. democrats need to work on our message and talk to blue collar voters and white collar voters. i am not an impeachment democrat. i am waiting for all of the facts. the fact that michael flynn one of the highest officials in donald trump's national security apparatus said he would work with the special counsel to look into the russia collusion, that's a big deal. >> hold on.

slow down. is that what he said? >> [overlapping talking]. >> let me finish my question. what would the collusion look like? >> that's what i am trying to figure out. >> i think after the election, so what would they be colluding on exactly? >> [overlapping talking] >> the whole premise was about the election. they don't care about the election. this is about unseating a president. >> that's just not true. if you look at flynn indictment. you have to look at flynn and manafort. before we sit here and say you can't look at flynn in a vacuum -- >> [overlapping talking]. >> i don't know. >> we don't know what it means. we have an expert prosecutor.

>> what might it mean? what is the worst case scenario? >> i don't want to make any assumptions. >> i don't think there is any confusion to be had here. mueller is looking into whether or not trump or his associates talked to the russians or colluded with the russians. >> about what? >> we know the russians engaged in our election and jeopardized our election. >> we don't know that. >> multiple intelligence agencies said over and over that the russians tried to compromise our election. that's a fact. >> that's not a fact. >> it is a fact! >> trump is guilty of bad judgment. people told him not to give that high level position to flynn. >> agree. >> this is a common rookie mistake. dana perino, you know this. are in politics. a lot of first time candidate -- a president but a first time candidate -- you feel very loyal

to the people that brought you to victory. i think trump had a typical first candidate mistake of giving a job to someone who was on the campaign. he only lasted 20 days. >> he was lobbying for the turkish government. >> right. >> i am not defending flynn. i wish we were being punished for the actual crime. >> he might be. >> maybe the reason he is not being punished for the actual crime is for a reason we don't know. this is why this takes a long time. it might be wrapped up sooner than we think. it was president obama who told president trump be careful of this guy. yates went to them to the white house and the justice department and said you have a problem here. she is fired. the president is calling for comey to go easy on flynn. that's how they ended up with

the special counsel. this is certainly not nothing. i agree -- nothing here when you are calling to russia to say we want to establish contact. somebody like michael flynn who is a seasoned patriot, 33 years in the military, why lie about that? that's what i don't understand. he pled guilty to that today. >> why the underlying, why lie? >> let me put it this way. why lie? i have not the faintest idea. i know a number of people busted on lying to a federal agent, we are vesting too much trust in the fbi. do you know anyone who has been gone after by the fbi? >> very well. >> i do too.

michael flynn or the fbi, it's not a close call. >> he said he is a broken man. he is selling his house and his finances are in trouble. these are motivations to cooperate. >> we will finish that up. widespread outrage after a five-time deported illegal immigrant is cleared in the murder of kate steinle. back with our reaction. let's get the big guy in place. the ford year end sales event is here. i can guide you in. no, thanks , santa. i got this. santa: uh, it looks a little tight. perfect fit. santa needs an f-150. that's ford, america's best selling brand. hurry in today for 0% financing for 72 months across the full line up of ford cars, trucks and suvs. for a limited time,

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>> a stunning verdict since o.j. last night in san francisco the illegal immigrant at the center of the sanctuary cities debate in america was acquitted of murdering 32-year-old kate steinle on a pier in san francisco 2 years ago. the jury sided with the defense which argued the shooting was accidental. the jury only found jose zarate guilty of being a felon in position of the firearm. the jury was not told about his 7 felonies or the fact he was deported 5 times. president trump called the

verdict disgraceful and another reason to build a wall. zarate's attorneys wasted no time in to politicizing the whole thing watch. >> a number of people commented on this case in the last couple of years. the attorney general of the united states. the president and vice-president of the united states. let me just remind them that they are themselves under investigation by the special prosecutor in washington, d.c. they may themselves soon be avail themselves of the presumption of innocence and beyond a reasonable doubt. so reflect on that before they comment or disparage the result in this case. >> that was matt gonzalez. not just an attorney. he is a politician and ran on

the green ticket with ralph nader in 2008. the justice department filed an arrest warrant for zarate. i have to say, the first thing that jumped out how politeicized it was. like o.j. the lawyers trying to make it something bigger. >> not in the courtroom. >> outside of the courtroom. >> that's what i thought of it. i sat on a jury in california. i do think the person was guilty. the prosecution's case was so weak and so poorly presented, we could not get there as a jury. i have to wonder why would not any of these information been important to provide to the jury so they could make this decision? >> is it judge that decides that? >> i don't know why the prosecution decided to do it that way. >> this guy was a homeless illegal immigrant who had been

deported five previous times. he had a drug problem and admitting taking drugs right before this. he was holding a gun and shot kate steinle. anybody with firearms, it was a federal gun and didn't have a 2 pound trigger pull. >> it doesn't make any sense to me. these things were not presented to the jurors. they made a decision without some of the this information. that means -- how do you make a right decision? they didn't just politicized it, they also racialized it. there is a feeling among democrats, do they think how you win over hispanics? i am hispanics. hispanics come here because of lack of rule of law on their own country. unless youor the far, far left with open borders, i don't know how they think supporting this

verdict or saying this is the right decision wins over people. hispanics still want to live in a country where somebody who shoots an innocent person goes to jail. i am confused about this. >> i don't think most people are looking at this as racial. if this had been the opposite and kate steinle murdered an illegal immigrant in san francisco and was acquitted for it, how many fires were be burning right now in san francisco? >> you have to back this train up a little bit. let's talk about the politization of it. the right also -- donald trump did a press conference. they put together kate's law. republicans politicized this as well.

>> do you see a political element because he was released against the request of the obama administration because they are a sanctuary cities. >> i am not saying we don't need immigration reform. border security coupled with dealing with the 11 million people living here in the shadows and those who have committed crimes and get them out. this guy should not be in the country. i agree there. he does not represent the other 11 million individual whose come to this country, they play by the rules. they work really hard. thisify is not one of them. to lump him in as folks on the right do with them is unfortunate. >> i don't know if they are living on the shadows. i wonder if this is evidence that the democratic party has

changed. hillary clinton criticized the city of san francisco 2 years ago for legislate this guy out. -- letting this guy out. you can imagine that today? >> to risk using a cliche, this is why trump won. this is a reminder that -- you are shaking your head, richard. >> i will. >> we know what it takes to get deported from sanctuary cities. you have to kill somebody and go to court and get acquitted. now you get deported. if a law was in place which followed would have prevented this. that truth exists. we talk about justice for month. we were talking about immigration reform. we were not talking about the case. in october when we brought up the case at this table, i was there a possibility of an acquittal because of the ricochetted bullet. people said that was impossible.

i don't understand why it's not involuntary manslaughter. maybe they did that on purpose. the fact these are the 3 legs on the table that trump ran on. he will remain in power. you can sit here and gloat over this horrible misjustice or injustice. >> i agree with you. i think involuntary manslaughter should be a charge and a lot of police officers who shot unarmed black men should be charged. >> that has nothing to do with this story. >> a quick break. you are getting a taste of how exciting this will be when we come right back. ♪

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>> back now with more on the kate steinle verdict. the acquittal of illegal immigrant jose zarate. a spokeswoman for the justice department believes that san francisco sanctuary policy is to blame for steinle's murder. >> this is a person who was deported 5 times and kept returning. he intentionally went to san francisco because he knew about their sanctuary policies. he was convicted of multiple crimes including multiple crimes. he never should have been on that pier and kate steinle would be alive today if he had not been. >> there are real politics affect. >> this is a case known nationally. we talked about it on this show. some things that used to happen in the city would never have been known federally,

nationally. but because everything now is politicized and on cable news. but this one is for good reason. sometimes you have a case that is a flash point for additional action. that's true in the black lives matter situations. this makes those sanctuary cities have to answer to citizens and say why are we doing this? why does this make sense? i understand there are some police officers and the sheriff's association that sanctuary cities are better for crime fighting purposes. they need to convince america that's the case. this are police officers that say that. i think this will come to a head. i would imagine that kate steinle might get justice if the federal charges that were just announced before we came to air are successful and make that prosecution will be better.

>> greg, do you think that daca and all of the momentum behind them, does this change how that will be resolved in any way? >> i don't think so. not with our attention span. >> you don't think border security will be more likely to be addressed as part of that? >> i don't know. i guess so. i am interested in the fact that as a country we can't handle all of these unexploded shells that are all over the country. men that should be in places not on streets. it matters this guy is illegal. it could have been prevented. there are people like in this all cities, just wandering. they should be in institutions and getting help and back in their own country. we have no way to figure this prob out. in new york you see it everywhere. southern california right now is unbelievable. cities of men doing terrible

things in public. they are mentally ill and i think this guy was mentally ill. >> but he was deported 5 times. richard, the president won on the issue of immigration and people's frustration with it. we touched on it. i don't think any of the other than republican candidates were willing to touch this. what is the response from the democrats? this is a reaction to this. the american people think this person should not have been in the country and we should have stronger -- do you think this will cause the democrats to be more entrenched or come around to win over some of the people? >> i agree with dana. this is a flash point. kate steinle case is a flash point. hopefully in washington, we saw what happened a couple of years ago when the gang of 8 tried to put together where democrats and republicans are and meet in the middle. we have the opportunity to do this here. there are 11 million people

living in the shadows. we have students who come to the country and want to be americans and pay their taxes and do everything right. at the same time, democrats have said, chucky and nancy, said they will work with the president on border security and republicans are willing to say okay we can't deport 11 million people tomorrow. let's come to the middle and get true immigration reform. our immigration laws are broken. they are almost as old as me. >> they are broken. >> what if we treated the gun laws the way democrats treated immigration laws, just ignore them? we don't carry. -- we will have sanctuary cities for open carry. >> they do that now. >> that's not true. the lesson of the last election is that a large group of people who voted democrat no longer do. however, democrats made no

effort to win them over. they made they clear and conscious decision to import new voters to replace them. that party moved radically to the left to the no border position. >> no. tucker, i hear you. i hear you! >> [overlapping talking] >> hold on. nancy pelosi spoke to a group of people who came to this country illegally last month and said i congratulate for doing that. the chief law enforcement on the democratic side congratulating people on a law she passed that's a changing point. >> when chuck schumer and nancy pelosi say we are willing to work with you on border security. that's not open border. >> the president was elected on the promise to build a wall. >> where is the wall? >> he hasn't built it. >> thank you. moving on. >> i think the irony is that

donald trump of all people is the one person who can make immigration reform happen. >> are you serious? >> [overlapping talking] >> you said none of the other candidates were going forward with it. ted cruz introduced a case in the senate. republicans were united in the senate. but the democrats filibustered it. >> agree. the american people believe donald trump that he will secure the border. donald trump, j >> he hasn't. >> are you anxiously awaiting for one? >> no. >> why are you against the wall? >> [overlapping talking] >> we have to move on. republicans say they secured enough votes to clear the tax bill through the senate. president trump appears to be on the verge of his first majority legislative victory. that's next. ♪

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>> we have the votes. senator majority lead erer mitc mcconnell said they have enough votes to pass the tax reform. what is your take? >> you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. we have seen a lot of talk like though these bums out and get new blood. i think this makes the case for why mitch mcconnell who understands how to navgate the legislative process pulled this

together. it was not easy to do. i predict that if they made the right changes, we may see it won't go to congress. the house may vote on what they have there. everyone is afraid of going back to the senate where it's tough to get votes. i think you might see the house vote on the senate bill as is. >> dana? >> i think it's possible. they don't want to talk about it anymore. they want to go home and say we did this. i think what will happen is that the republicans who used to be concerned about the deficit will hope that the economic growth is what they hope it will be. then the republicans and the democrats will debate about the results. i think they want to get to yes and get it over with. >> i think the results already of trump's economic agenda are doing well. i live in wisconsin. i have brother in-laws and

sister-in-laws who are small business owners. they can't keep up with the orders. they are turning down jobs. donald trump has a lot of credibility on economics. he sold this tax plan. though i wish it could have been more bold, i am a flat tax person. i wish we had gone that route. >> i hope you are right. >> i don't know who understands it. i have talked to a lot of people on the hill. i talked to my accountant. what is this? no idea. i have high hopes. there is only one question from the last election: how do you save the middle class? which is shrinking and dying younger. it's a disaster. everything the federal government does has to be focussed on fixing that one problem. i hope this bill does that. i guess we will z. i am bothered that's not obvious going into

this. >> when you let that money come back overseas and encourage companies to built factories in american that makes a difference. >> we still have high unemployment and wages are still stuck. >> i agree with you, tucker, which is a rarity, america. i think bill is missing how you deal with the middle-class. everything taken out of this bill benefitted the middle class like deducting loan interest rates. >> this is the way tax reform the way shaking up a can of coke is coke reform. >> [laughing]. >> this is not overhaul. whoever wrote sweeping reform needs their head examined. this is more liberal than conservative. >> no, i disagree. >> 40% of the federal income tax

revenue helping them or hurting them? it's hurting them. the corporate part is fine. the individual thing is a mess. trying to sugar coat is hilarious. good luck, but it sucks. i agree. i talked to people. it's like trying to untangle your iphone ear buds. what? you have to do this? then do you this. then we will take this back. no, you can have that. that's what this is. we want something simple. something bold. we talk a great game. for decades. we get the opportunity. what do we do? this bland, pale oatmeal. >> you cannot do the bold reform that you and all of us here want. >> count me out. i don't want the bold reform. >> you can't do that without the senate changing the rules.

>> that's not true. you have to come to the table. if you came to the table and worked with the democrats and republicans you can pass real reform. ronald reagan did it in avons. -- the '80s. fabers friday is next. you might take something for your heart... or joints. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. you may be at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia, that can take you out of the game for weeks, even if you're healthy. pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious

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>> facebook friday. that means it's friday. >> yeah! >> so glad it's almost over. 12 minutes. first question: this is from john k. tucker, if you were on who wants to be a millionaire, a game show, who would be your lifeline, tucker? >> i don't know what that means. >> that's cool. >> it's a great ifphilosopher. i would phone a friend. >> greg, you. >> that's a good choice. >> it were a question about '80s pop music. >> you would not lose. >> i would call my husband. >> he knows a lot of stuff? >> i want to pass the second

test. i would say you, greg. but it's my husband. he saved me many, many times on fox which a question came up and i quick texted him for the answer. >> that's true, doing fox is like that. i don't have the answer. get on your phone. >> just being honest. >> i hope my buddy is home. what happened? >> you get a lot of political questions. >> top culture shannon green. >> she was in the go-go's. >> if it's history, i would call brit hume. >> good call! >> [laughing] >> any way, i would take dorothy johnson who lives down the block.

she knows a lot of stuff. if you could pick an age for the rest of your life, rachael, how old would you want to be? >> this is an excellent question. i have 8 kids. i will tell you that i had a 3-year-old. i have to tell you it is the best age. i love it. >> that's the best age? >> well, no. >> [overlapping talking] >> she's joy of the family. everyone loves her. >> okay. >> she gets to wear a diaper. >> she doesn't wear a diaper. >> well, i did. >> you still do. >> [laughing] >> richard? >> i would say 21 and 25. 21 because you don't have a care in the world.

you are living your best life. 25 your body -- like now i am 30. after a drink my bones are clicking. >> you feel sorry for him. >> i would be 71. >> something to look forward to. >> you get to 71 if you are in descent shape. you have all of your faculties but you can say whatever you want. a get discounts at restaurants and movies. you have your morals. >> not like conyers. >> he is 88. >> i would pick my age which is 45. when you were a kid and you thought about heaven, you imagined everybody at the age that you know them as a kid. your grandmother or grandfather would be that age. do you want to be that age in heaven? everybody in heaven would be like 12 or 13.

it would be chaotic. it's depressing. hard to find your parents because they would be your age. >> that would be weird. >> very strange. i looked into this, america. this is an interesting complex question. dana. kimberly asked what is your biggest sacrifice personally or professionally and was it worth it? >> my biggest sacrifice? >> yes. >> oh, i don't know. >> you have never sacrificed? >> i worked hard. >> never? >> i need to sacrifice more. >> yes. >> you can never do enough. >> you are a cold person. >> [laughing] >> tucker, you sacrificed a lot. it's an awful question when you think about it. >> i had a cheerful life. >> it's a question that betrayed our selfishness but you have 8

kids. >> and i am catholic. i made a lot of sacrifices for my kids. >> excellent. richard? >> i am with dana, i have been blessed. to say i sacrificed would be hard. it would make me feel ungrateful. >> i am here to help america through tough times. >> oh, boy. >> one more thing is up next. regions... ancestrydna can pinpoint where your ancestors are from... and the paths they took to a new home. could their journey inspire yours? order your kit at ancestrydna.com

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i let go of all those feelings. because i am cured with harvoni. harvoni is a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. it's been prescribed to more than a quarter million people. and is proven to cure up to 99% of patients who have had no prior treatment with 12 weeks. certain patients can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. before starting harvoni, your doctor will test to see if you've ever had hepatitis b, which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after harvoni treatment. tell your doctor if you've ever had hepatitis b, a liver transplant, other liver or kidney problems, hiv or any other medical conditions and about all the medicines you take including herbal supplements. taking amiodarone with harvoni can cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. common side effects of harvoni include tiredness, headache and weakness. ready to let go of hep c? ask your hep c specialist about harvoni.

>> time for one more thing. i will kick it off. today is world aids day. always december 1st. this year's theme is increasing the impact through transition team -- trance parency and leadership. the good news goes on and on due to the generosity of the american people and the program continues under president trump. greg? >> tomorrow night 10 p.m. it's the greg gutfeld show at 10 p.m. fox news channel. a great comedian. a smart thinker from a federalist. if you don't tune in, you are

dead to me! >> [laughing] >> he just said he loved america. now you are dead to me. >> yeah. >> tucker? >> 2 hours and 3 minutes we will be dissecting today's news with the attorney general of the united states jeff sessions. >> that's it for your one more thing? >> i am not much of a promoter. i feel guilty. >> richard? >> operation agua provides save water to the people of puerto rico suffering after hurricane m maria. for just $30 you provide a water filter to a fellow american in

puerto rico. you can help others get clean water. >> fellow americans. >> a great cause. >> rachael? >> in my family, we have a tradition. when a girl turns 18 to 24, my dad's side is mexican and my mother from spain. we take this picture. this first picture is my great grandmother. the next picture is my grandmother. the next picture is my mother. the next picture is me! then my daughter just had her senior photos. >> wow! gorgeous. >> beautiful. >> she carried on the tradition and made me proud. >> i got an email from the producer with the first picture of your grandmother. i don't know what to do with it. i didn't know what it was for. now i understand it. they are all very beautiful. a lovely tradition. >> just because you are blond, you could try it too.

>> never miss an episode of the "the five." "special report with bret baier" is next. are you there. >> bret: thanks. from sunny california. this is a fox news alert. i am bret baier coming you to from the ronald reagan presidential library in the simi valley town. we are following major breaking stories. michael flynn pleads guilty to lying to the fbi. he is agreeing to cooperate with special counsel robert mueller and may testify against other members of the president's transition team. his white house or even possibly against the president himself. we only know what is in the court fileings so far. the president's lawyers are already firing back. republicans senators say