>> in kennedy with jessica tarlov, david webb, katie pavlich, and tom shillue. it's 5:00 in new york city and this is "the five" ." thank you for joining us. we hope you had a very, very merry christmas. it appears the president has, after his historic tax cut victory. the president is back to work and hopeful democrats will help his party tackle health care. that's coming up next. the president tweeting: "based on the fact that the very unfair and unpopular individual mandate has been terminated as part of our tax cut bill, which essentially repeals over time obamacare, the democrats and republicans will eventually come

together and develop a great new healthcare plan!" but with his optimism, of course, resistance from democrats like bernie sanders. >> at what cost to this country are people catching on to the fact that donald trump ran for president saying he was going to defend the interests for the working-class and middle-class. it turned out he lost. you have a president who told us he was going to provide health care to everybody, then he proposed 30 million people being thrown off health insurance. his tax plan was going to benefit the middle class. the bulk go to the rich. >> bernie is very upset. he is airing some of his grievances against the president. the democratic narrative, how truthful is it? our middle-class americans and lower income americans actually not getting a tax cut? >> 91% of the middle class are

getting some kind of tax break. i think bernie sanders is upset he can't write off all three of his houses on this bill. unless the left has an enemy, class warfare going on in the name of socialism, they aren't going to be happy about any of this. you heard the argument that corporations have permanent tax break while individuals do not. that's true. however. the reason is because you need 60 votes to have permanent individual tax cuts and the way you do that is getting democrats on board. bernie sanders refused to step up. he didn't write his own bill and here we are with the individual tax rate being temporary. >> health care proved to be much more difficult for republicans then tax reform. that's frustrating for the part party. this is however a big victory and could have a great economic impact. what would it take for democrats to acknowledge tax cuts are good for the economy?

>> all democrats were bernie sanders? -- or bernie sanders? >> i believe it to be problematic that the party continues to shoot the left. bernie sanders, you are never going to sell on it. 80% are getting a tax cut of some kind. i wish they had gone for larger tax cuts on the individual rate they may be a little bit higher on the corporate side. we may fundamentally disagree whether trickle-down works. i don't believe it does. we've seen the beginnings of bonuses, a little wage pump. this won't come into effect fully until after the midterm so we won't know how much americans are going to feel like they're really better off before then. >> i want to ask you about this. i want to ask you about this. there's a difference between

having a tax break throughout 2018 but not feeling the effect until you file your tax return in 2019. how much of it is theoretical and how much of it is actual, and does it matter? >> it is all actual in this respect. you make your decisions on what you have to file for the following year. if you talk to any accountant, not pundits on the democrat side, sorry, jessica. if you talk to an accountant or an accounting firm, people are going to make their decisions based on the way they have to file their taxes. much of the way you're going to have to rush to claim certain deductions. when you look at the tax cuts, take effective part in february, some decisions are going to be made on quarterly filing projections for next year. the effect on the economy, i'm going to use at&t as an example. there are many others. if you give $1,000, to 200,000

people. that's $200 million you have injected into the economy. whether it goes into a bank or christmas present or knew of her hockey skates or baseball uniform, that's money spurring for consumer economy. companies giving bonuses, that means those people are going to use that money. it's an injection of consumer activity. that's the equation that matters. >> i would rather see a company like at&t give some of their employees $1,000 as a bonus check as opposed to the government subsidizing either health care or just handing out cash willy-nilly because it's very different when the government gives out our money versus the corporation trying to use bonuses as a reinvestment. >> big time, kennedy. i think daily person who used the word trickle-down was the democrat on the panel. we don't use that word, jessica. it's a democrats slur. it always was. >> i know some real slurs.

that's not a slur. >> you have been using it since i was in high school. bernie sanders admitted. i signed with jake tapper. he said 91%. bernie said yes. but they expire. he kept saying they expire. >> to katie's earlier point, if the democrats have cried that they want to lower taxes on the lower rungs of the income ladder, whatever they want to call it, here's a case where they could have voted for lowering the tax rates. >> what was available wouldn't have matched with our ideology. >> economics -- >> there are plenty of nobel prize winners on the economic side for democrats and liberals. i'm sorry you don't believe in it. the idea you are opposed to the

government spending our money, when i believe is a tax -- corporate tax break. corporations are better equipped to tell us to do with our money. >> no, they get to decide what to do their own money and some of the government. that's the american dream. you get to decide what to do with your money. >> [both speaking] >> this is why we haven't seen wages go up. we haven't seen corporations hiring. now we are. there's been so much federal regulation in the country which president trump has taken off the table. 22 repealed for everyone. that's been a wet blanket on the economy for nearly a decade. you see it when you talk to small businesses and corporations. it's because of an unstable environment, whether it's obamacare, new federal regulations. those cost an enormous amount of

money. >> that's absolutely right. it costs money. >> barriers to entry, and those things keep people from hiring and growing businesses because they don't have -- they are so hamstrung. what's wrong with corporations making money? i want to know that. >> i am in favor of middle and lower class americans making a good wage. >> they are. >> no, they are at. when obama was president you would say the wages weren't going up. now in the last 11 months? >> wages have increased, jessica. that is not trump-ism. >> gary cohn said in the meeting. >> because he was in a room with people, an informal poll? versus actual numbers? >> five or six companies gave these bonuses. $1,000. >> the fact that consumer confidence is up, gdp is up,

stock market, wages, unemployment is down. that's data. >> if you look at more data in the economic equation, something that's important is the measure of home buyers. the home mortgage interest, they did a survey of this. interesting home mortgages at an 18 year high. it's a spike that's happened since the beginning of the year. there is something else. you used the term trickle-down. it was a bad phrase for the republicans to use. it is downward pressure from the economy, the economic activity levels crated by corporations, and individual investors. it is the upward pressure when you lift wages -- when you live tax burden, regulatory burden on the lower income scale. when you have over 80% of the people according to the irs data paying and they make under $50,000 a year, pay in the obamacare tax penalty and you left that from them, that matters to them. suddenly $1,000 for a person

making $40,000 as a percentage of their earnings and taxable income becomes great. the last part, double the standard deduction. single or couple cannot release their money for them to use. >> speaking of doubling. rosie o'donnell is doubling down on twitter. she went after ben shapiro last week, telling him so filthy i can't repeat it. she's been busy tweeting to paul ryan when paul ryan released a lovely christmas message. rosie tweeted "paul ryan, don't talk about jesus after what you just did to our nation. you will go straight to hell. you screwed up, fake altar boy." >> wow. she put everything in there. rosie, she probably shouldn't tweet. she's not taking advantage of the new expanded twitter.

her tweets are very short. president trump is doing it, what is it, 280. he is filling them out. >> do i really want to read a novel at? >> i rarely ever use it. i don't need a manifesto. >> i will take it as of bowling score. >> rose rosie's tweets are short of basic intelligence. this is a woman who doesn't do the work. she had a show that lasted a few months. she doesn't do the work. she doesn't have the understanding. she is like chelsea handler. she's a wannabe who never will be. >> she has a bomb thrower trying to get some attention. i understand she's probably quite bored. she's been relieved of her duties from several employers. >> this seems unbelievably mean to only be talking about rosie o'donnell. saying she is not a hard worker

and can't keep a job. >> what she said to ben shapiro, the kinds of things that are said about rosie o'donnell. what the president of the united states said about her. >> did you read what she wrote? >> deal with her ideas. >> it is hard to do. >> her ideas. >> i would judge rosie o'donnell by her ideas if she were actually espousing concrete, academic databased ideas. instead she is going off about religion. leftists don't seem to do that until it's convenient for them and accusing paul ryan, saying he's going to go to hell? who made rosie o'donnell god? >> she wanted to dress up for steve bannon for "snl." no, we're good.

are we going to see any improved discourse? jessica's right about something. it's pretty nasty from both sides. >> it's just where i wanted. >> i say. you don't have to engage. i choose not to. >> did you hear what the age of set about rosie. >> i disagree. bernie sanders, there is some merit to what he says. >> i was talking about the working part. >> bernie is an authentic personal has a heart and he operates with the best intention. >> he truly believes what he is saying. >> socialism and communism operated with the best intentions and we won't go into the data into how many who died under socialism.

>> i have a t-shirt that says communism killed 100 >> twitter and social media and the environment is heavily polarized. i use sarcasm. throw in some facts. >> is that an app? >> she blocked him. he won the argument, she blocked him and he went to twitter and complained. >> they deleted the tweet. >> she went down in flames in her last election but hillary clinton reportedly thinks she could provide help to democrats in 2018. we shall dive into that one had first in moments. stay with us. you owned your car

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>> if i were a democrat running for election next year, the last person i want campaigning for me would be hundred clinton. she has political kryptonite. there are reports they failed 2016 presidential candidate may be considering a role in the midterms to help her party retake congress. it would be great for republicans, her favorability hitting a new low last week. jessica, i'm going to boot this to you. should hillary clinton be near any congressional race? >> depending on where the races. for a new york city seat, that would be fantastic.

california, hugely popular on the coast. chicago, that would work. >> those are cities a democrat couldn't lose. where could she go in a contestable race? >> there are races in california, darrell issa's seat. she has one of the most prolific fund-raisers. >> her pac has donated a lot of money to the redistricting effort, which feels unfair. i don't disagree with you. i think she could be a big help in certain places locally. if there were no microphones and new media. donors do want to get close. there is still a lot of intrigue. people who are loyalists feel she had been wronged and she's been attacked by the press, political opponents who are still ongoing. having said that, if you put a camera there, all anyone is going to do is make fun of her

because she won't call away and she's not looking toward the future. what's her fantastic five-point economic plan? her plan is to talk about victimhood and why she lost, blame everyone and not take responsibility. for democrats, that doesn't move the ball forward. >> do you want me -- >> you can respond. >> we are just going to be observers. >> i take your points i think the national media will certainly blow it up and it will be on all the cable news network's that i think it will matter. there are 55 million people who did vote for her. the chance to meet her, go to a rally where she is speaking, hear about her life a public service. you can make jokes about a techno- economic plan or whatever. >> david, i have a question. can republicans move forward in 2018 based on being for something rather than being

against hillary clinton. not touting the accomplishments they've had. >> republicans sell success, the best thing you can sell to the person sitting at their kitchen table is success. tax policy, regulatory burden, doing these things. the epa is working better. rolling back federal government overlordship in your lives, giving you a chance to do what you want, find your talent, go to school. as for hillary clinton, everything you mentioned, with all due respect. everything you mentioned is, districts where democrats could won. hillary clinton's problem isn't so much whether there is media or not. it's the fact that she's a terrible spokesperson for other people. she's a bad enough spokesperson for herself. she couldn't tell herself. in an election where she got whatever, 65 million votes,

there was no other choice because they had crushed the other choice. >> on that note of issue the representative of the democrats, we've seen both sides of the aisle trying to move away from old leadership. constantly a fight against the establishment. if democrats win the house which is unlikely, who's the new leader? are they going to keep nancy pelosi around? who is going to be in charge? >> she is not going away. "lock her up," a republican slogan. the democrats want to start chanting "lock her up." they want her under house arres arrest. jessica, she could help people won seats. not just in safe districts. she could come in and get an election but at the cost of the national party because president trump already likes to -- every time he does a rally, he talks most of the time about hillary clinton. >> all it takes is one misstep

for her and one misstatement and people are going to exploit it. people asking for her to go away, it's fellow democrats. the loudest voices. they really want to move on. if you heard the change in tone, republicans are begging her to stay because she is pulling down. >> i have a question about turnout. right now, the resistance has some momentum in getting voters to turn out. of hillary clinton comes in the picture, doesn't it pose a risk of getting people who voted for trump or people who really don't like hillary clinton out there at a time when democrats have the advantage on turnout? >> i'm not sure if you are picking your battles here. we have leadership on both sides, hugely unpopular. the president, republicans, democrats not popular. i would caution anyone can know where you sent paul ryan, nancy pelosi, hillary clinton, anybody. we have unpopular figureheads.

there's also the potential for her to be more of a behind the scenes player where she's having -- >> i don't think -- >> fund-raisers. her book tour is over. the last thing she wants to do is hurt the party. >> disagree. we are going to move on. california escalating its showdown with the trump administration over illegal immigration next. i am totally blind. and non-24 can make me show up too early... or too late.

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♪ >> it may be the end of a successful 2017 for the president but he is still getting plenty of pushback on this immigration agenda. california, the governor jerry brown, continuing to define president trump and granting holiday pardons to two foreigners who come on the verge of being deported for committing crimes while in the united states. pope francis, no shocker, appears to have taken on the president, highlighting the struggles of refugees in his christmas mass and urging christians to embrace immigrants all while living behind the wall of the vatican.

i find that interesting, kenned kennedy. i have a legal question for katie pavlich. talking about the opposition, jerry brown, the pope, highlighting the plight of others. they live safely in their walls, behind their gates and their staffs and their protection. >> i'm not going to attack the pope but i will say about jerry brown, i think there are certain cities and certain law enforcement agencies who protect the wrong people of the runtime. these are either crimes that happened a long time ago. they serve their time. they did their best to return themselves and live a better life. i think we should honor that redemption and that hard work this time of year. i get uncomfortable when we keep immigrants -- paint immigrants with a rod brush. >> i paint them as legal or illegal. it's a federal law when it comes to immigration, the response of the federal government in

response to the federal -- jerry brown pardons. >> these two men came here legally. they were brought here legally as children. i don't understand the legal aspect of how jerry brown can pardon a deportation order when it's a federal issue. he can pardon state-level crimes. here's my problem. there are a lot of americans who weren't brought here from another country who probably need a pardon pretty badly as well. i think they should take precedent. the other thing that bothers me is jerry brown is constantly talking about gun control, and california being the number one state that has the best laws. the rest of the country should emulate them. one of the men he pardoned was convicted on a felony weapons charge with a gain enhancement. if you're going to pardon people who violate gun laws and yet lecture the rest of the country about theirs, i had problem with

that. barack obama to the same. our pardons used for redemption? >> if someone serves their time and has not committed crimes since they left prison, isn't that what we want from people? isn't that part of -- >> whether their choices -- >> i want hardworking, good people to come to this country and make it even better. that's what i want. >> charges and prosecutions are not done easily. >> they are in california. >> jessica, is this just politics really? how many people are probably in the california prison system that could have maybe deserved a pardon? >> is there a limit on the number? >> it's only how much time yesterday. i think he did want to send a statement for the holidays president trump to sand not interested in your perspective or your views on how we should

deal with the illegal immigrant population in the country. truthfully what he did to kennedy's point about how prison is supposed to be rehabilitatio rehabilitation. the drug enhancement charge was from 1995. it's in line with the american people. while people do want to see increased border safety and stuff like that, they don't want the 11 billion hero ready to be deported. that's what you're talking about. >> do you think jerry brown should pardon kate steinle's murderer? >> that is california juries for you. san francisco justice. >> to wrap it together, i agree with you, kennedy. you have to fight certain battles and you don't want to fight the right of a governor to pardon people. that's going to happen.

the battle to fight is on sanctuary cities and other things. cities that are defined national immigration law. that's the battle. >> big difference between someone who has committed a felony recently, when i.c.e. is not informed this person is being held was ready for deportation who's committed some sort of violent crime, those of the people, to push back against sanctuary cities. >> the criminal aspect is the parallel. even though these men who were convicted, served time in the state prison system in california, haven't committed a crime since, the parallel is they were brought into this country, were given everything by america, they still decided to break the law in a very violent way. fast-forward to today, americans have put up for two decades, three decades of that and they've had it. they've had it with a lot of people to come in and violate the laws in their communities that are violent. speak a lot about people who

violate laws were born here? >> fair point. the differences people feel like nothing and putting up with illegal immigration and they are never being aligned between legal and illegal immigration. >> don't you think they want someone held accountable? >> do you think that's why jerry brown picked two people who offended so long ago. he didn't pardon kate steinle's murderer, didn't pick people who have been violent in the last two years. he picked people where their main crime, in the eyes of immigration hardliners, is that they crossed into the country illegally in the first place. that's the argument about those 11 million. >> we have to change the laws to allow people in who are good people and want to work hard. >> that system is broken. that's something congress is incapable of addressing. speak of the democrats didn't do a thing about immigration. [all speaking]

>> finally we have a president who apparently is going to visit the wall, the prototypes, see what they are, and start building them. if you didn't get a maserati -- i am a mercedes guy, or that shiny new set of golf clubs. there's always next year. how to get around the big gift let down. how many of you got big gifts and you didn't like them? we will find out next.

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♪ >> to regift or not.

to return or not. those are the questions many are asking today after opening christmas presents and suffering some major disappointments. americans spend on average 16 billion on gifts that end up in the trash. according to a recent survey which ironically i threw in the trash. kennedy, regifting? is it a sin? >> i always give people champagne. they can give it to other people if they don't like champagne. i don't have a problem with it. if i give you something and you don't like it, i am not a fan of clutter. give it to the next person. i know emily post has a problem. daily time should regift is when it's a surprise. who cares. if it's something of value and you don't need it, have attic. -- have at it. >> isn't every gift a surprise? >> i feel like gifts are not really surprises.

there is so much discussion. you know what what your kids want. they make a list. it happens with adults because you don't want that disappointment. you get your loved one, your partner something and they don't like it may be they feel compelled to keep it because you spent so much time picking it out. i feel like surprises or drifting away. >> it depends on your age. if you are a little kid, you like gifts. my parents never put up with us not liking the things we got. spent good, hard money on it. you will enjoy it and use it. as an adult tummies articulate things, especially in america, you want experiences in our family likes to go on trips instead of getting a bunch of gifts. for thanksgiving, we went on a nice trip. my mom came to new york last week. we had a great time. >> when are you going to pick up the phone and say dear mom, that scarf. that knitted scarves you gave m

me. >> scarves are useful. >> alcohols great. alcohol is great if you don't have a scarf. give people an idea what you want. i have a role. give someone something that you would want to give to yourself. if you really like it, try to figure out. you give them something that will come back to you. >> have you ever regifted to someone they gave you that gift? >> no. i don't regift. >> of course they do. >> my brother and sister-in-law gave my grandmother, god rest her soul in heaven, a beautiful, graceful. she was always watching before. she gave my brother and sister-in-law a lovely platter that they gave to her a couple years later. she gave it to me. i give it to my brother.

[laughter] >> the family traveling platter. >> next christmas. >> when you have brothers and sisters, you have to get used to regifting. you handed around. >> i am fine with regifting as long as it's useful. >> it's for nonuseful things. >> what are you going to do with all those hats you got for christmas? don't tell me you are going to regift them. >> not going to wear them on national television. >> we will share some photos from our christmas celebrations next. one in customer satisfaction over cable for 17 years running. but some people still like cable. just like some people like pre-shaken sodas.

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♪ >> welcome back to this very spirited edition of "the five" " christmas 2017 in the history books. we hope your holidays were as great as ours. we haven't seen what each of us did. we are going to do a picture show. >> our christmas was all about family, friends, brunch, and bacon. sizzling bacon. two pans, i had a half a pack in the oven which cooked it nicely. we had an unfortunate incident. i tried to free him but i was

worried someone was going to call the police. those are delicious gluten-free, dairy free cinnamon rolls. they are good. out riding bikes, palm trees and sunshine. my friend kathy made a most glorious pot roast in the history of mankind. >> well done. >> that was beautiful. >> christmas in a warm place. >> so much of what brings us together is great food and celebrating with family. >> and bacon and sticky buns. we had at a very calm, relaxed christmas. there we are by the christmas tree. i'm wearing a new shirt. she liked her presence. my mom -- i love this picture. if you look at it closely, my mom has a power tool.

she said she wants a power washer. there's a story. the squirrels and chipmunks eat her garden. there's a water rabbit who livr her flower bed. i think i just given my mom a weapon and the rabbits are in trouble. the picture of the table laid out with everything from the potatoes. we talked about champagne. in little jefferson reserve. mom looking over, when are you going to start drinking that? i family is all over the world. we are spread out in so many states and cities. >> i didn't get to go home to my arizona family so it was a low-key day of working. we did give this english gentleman a festive scarf and a large bone.

we didn't do much. i cooked some homemade cranberry sauce. we made some turkey for dinner. i made some cookies. they were better than they look. here we are a couple weeks ago at the white house press party, me and my husband. a lot of fun. our first celebration together. that was it. there you go. not too much happening. >> the cookies did look good. >> they were good, but not pretty. i tried to make my grandma and my mom's traditional cinnamon rolls. it was a total fail. at least i got the cookies. >> i will plug my christmas radio special. my special guest kennedy and greg gutfeld. >> never in the same place at the same time. >> it's just been posted as a podcast. let's see. louise's lab coat and science kit. she's got the goggles.

that's what she wanted. agnes and luis playing chess with their new harry potter chess set. my wife made a nice beef wellington. >> that is serious. >> it was amazing. >> i could never do that. >> it's fantastic. it's ready for reheating when i get home. >> you have to eat it for like a month. >> just like a pot roast. >> okay, my family's christmas was quite spread out. i was with my mom which was great. this is my boyfriend who was in japan for the holidays. bamboo forest in kyoto. this is one of my favorites. this is my sister and her husband, their puppy and a picture of me so we would feel like we were all together. and then -- i don't have one of

my dad but this cake is important. shaped like a gingerbread house and look at all the colors. when she sent it to me, it played cyndi lauper "true colors." this is how it's happening. real flavors. it was delicious. >> something we can find? >> stay right here with us. "one more thing" is next.

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>> it's time for "one more thing" ." this year, your new year's is about to transform. the all american new year is at 10:00 p.m. eastern. jesse watters and i are going to have the best time of your life. we will brave the cold. we will brave the snow, the crowds. the lack of facilities. so that you don't have to. all you have to do is snuggle up with a bottle of regifted champagne and join us. we will be celebrating new year's traditions throughout the world. in spain, they eat 12 grapes in

one handful for every stroke of the clock at midnight and wash it down with cava. >> i will definitely be watching. i will be cuddled up on the couch and not outside. this time of year we have to remember our servicemen and women overseas cannot be with their families, as we are surrounded by those who love us. one mom got heartfelt christmas surprise. the video of it has gone viral. >> [screaming] >> the mom was supposed to be getting a full-length body mirror she thought was her presence. as you saw, she realized in the reflection that it was her daughter who had returned home from the navy and she was standing behind her. couldn't ask for a better gift. no regifting on that one, for sure. >> i love those videos.

>> always makes me tear up. i love those military unions, especially agreements. >> i slogged my christmas special a block early. go to fox news podcasts. let's show a clip from my favorite genre of cinema. dogs rescued from frozen ice. he's going to live. these heroes pulled him out of the water. what's better than a labrador saved from certain death? >> hope he got a good bath. the friend comes over, the yellow lab. dogs are so much more superior than cats. >> i don't know how people can have cats. >> i agree. >> anti-cat.

>> i like cats and dogs. bipartisan behavior. they are royal creatures. jessica i picked this just for you. president trump's accomplishments. the naysayers, the end of the world people talking about what the president didn't didn't do this year. surprisingly the numbers are better than obama's in some way and better than a lot of other presidents. decertified the iran nuclear deal. he's got a supreme court justice. stock market at an all-time high, the nasdaq and other exchanges as well. reduced illegal alien immigration. moving the u.s. embassy to jerusalem. now guatemala is going to do it. apparently guatemala is in on the joke. >> a david webb "one more thing." >> passed tax reform which we

will see the benefits of in february. get a room, you two. >> i have a thing. >> larry fitzgerald, wide receiver for the arizona cardinals wrote an amazing letter to john mccain thinking him for his service. travel to vietnam and went to the prison where john mccain was held. raising awareness for our military servicemen and women on talking about senator mccain's scary diagnosis.

really beautiful. very powerful letter. >> got to go. mike emanuel filling intimate >> more sanctions for north korea as a russia offers to host peace talks. very big numbers from retailers for the christmas shopping season. this is "special report" ." good evening. i mike emanuel in for bret baier. action on two fronts regarding north korea. the u.s. laughing sanctions and russia says it's ready and waiting to mediate talks between the u.s. and the kim jong un regime.