>> trish: see you back here. i will be in for martha tomorrow night at 7:00 p.m. eastern. catch me every weekday 2:00 p.m. on the intelligence report on the fox business network. have a terrific night. mark steyn is in. ♪ ♪ >> mark: good evening, and welcome to tucker carlson tonight. i'm mark steyn in for tucker who is taking a european union length christmas break which is revolting any unamerican of him. today was the deadline for the department of justice to turn over requested information about anti-trump text messages to the senate judiciary committee. the text messages were sent by former robert mueller team member peter strzok and a powerful sign that mueller's probe and other fbi investigations could be tainted by political bias. senator chuck grassley has demanded that the doj explain both when it found

the messages and how it has reacted to them. will that information be handed over? so far it apparently hasn't been. but the doj and fbi have repeatedly demonstrated that they consider these requests from congress to be mere suggestions at best. richard good stein advised hillary clinton's campaign in both 2008 and 2016. richard, it's not a small thing when the people's representatives get to flip the finger by rogue law enforcement agencies, is it? >> mark, can i just say you hillary personal. it must have hurt in the gallup poll said hillary clinton and barack obama were the most admired men and women in the world. answer my question. >> on the entire planet. if only the electoral college, included the

jungles of pop with a new guinea, she would be sitting in the oval office today. >> my sentiments for that one. >> mark: i will give that you one in the spirit of new year comedy. >> i will peter strzok text messages is another distraction. donald trump should thank his lucky stars that the fbi. he would not be in the white house but for james comey having given his press conference july 25th and sending letter october 8th and reference to russians were trying to help trump win. nothing, not a word. for him and frankly his party members now, to be screaming bloody murder about the fbi is a bit much. >> mark: wait a minute, this guy strzok, for example, senator grassley has read this text message from peter strzok, who is a senior counter intelligence guy, even though he writes text messages to his sweetheart like a sixth grade school girl, it is a serious

situation when the plain meaning of the text suggests that in andrew mccabe's office the number two fbi guy's office, they are talking about how, in effect, interfere with the election to ensure that trump doesn't become president. that would be bad if they were doing it to hillary. it would be bad if they were doing it to jill stein. doesn't that require an answer from these guys? >> they were saying that at a time when the fbi was putting its weight on the scales in favor of donald trump. seriously, this is perverse. i understand, again, the walls are kind of closing in on donald trump. with the flynn plea, with the papadopoulos plea. seriously, look, mark, i would say this, you know who said really bad things about donald trump? marco rubio said he was a con artist. ted cruz said he was utterly

a moral and a pathological liar. peter strzok wasn't unique. >> mark: trump said te ted cruz's father was on the lawn with lee harvey oswald. what we are talking about here is policemen. if trump wants to accuse cruz's father of being on the grassy knoll, that's one thing. when policemen are, as you put it, putting their thumb on the scale, that's quite another matter. >> well, except it's belied by the fact that what comey, what the fbi ultimately did, they put its weight. the comey press conference, the comey letter the nondisclosure of what the intelligence committee knew about what the russians were doing to help trump, that's basically trump's everything. that supersedes anything that peter strzok could have possibly, incidentally prosecute peter strzok was doing interviews, mark he would have other people there in the fbi. he didn't have any kind of solo opportunity to move things one way or the other.

did he like trump? no, a lot of people didn't. >> mark: you said a fascinating thick there, richard, what the russians were doing to help trump. what were they doing? >> i will tell you, four things to keep in mind. they said to donald trump jr., we can help you. donald trump jr. said love it let's see it and then guess what? the russians did help through wikileaks and donald trump 100 times during the campaign made reference to wikileaks and urged them to do more to basically steal from hillary clinton's computer and then, of course, all the people in the trump orbit lied about it. >> mark: nobody had to steal from any democrats. john podesta's password was password with a zero for where the o should be. so, john podesta and hillary clinton might as well have left their emails on top of a pain phone in grand central station. >> that's like saying that the watergate break-in would not have happened had that lock been a bit more secure that those burglars couldn't have quite cracked it. come on, it was theft.

it was theft. >> mark: come on, richard, we hear this thing they may have hacked into voting machines. you can't hook into something that isn't connected to the internet. that's like hacking into a cinnamon bon. you can't do it. >> i totally agree that right now we don't have evidence about the voting machines. here is what we do have evidence of. we know that there is some crackpot from north carolina came up to you washington, d.c. with a rifle because some looney thing put out by the russians about a child slavery ring in a pizza place and he was prepared to shoot people. you think people might be prepared to vote differently? this guy was prepared to shoot people because of what he read on the internet. >> mark: come on, we have a bernie sanders guy shooting up the congressional baseball playing republicans. we have -- that's not on bernie sanders. bernie is one of my neighbors in northern new england and i think he is a kook. i don't think he incentivizes people to murder. you can't make that connection. >> you are down playing the

significance of what was put out on the internet by the russians. i'm saying that the point i made was exint a was something that was specifically done by the russians and a guy was prepared to travel hundreds of miles to shoot people. that's suggests to me that somebody may be able to have their vote influenced, that's all. >> that's interesting to hear from campaign officials. because if that guy, putin, can swing an elections for 100 grand, you guys are out of business, richard, because nobody pay millions to the big fancy pants consultants when 100 grand for some guy in moscow can swing the election for you. >> two things, mark. we will see when the podesta emails came out an hour after access hollywood. was that a coincidence or was there some collaboration in we will see when all these swing voters in michigan, wisconsin were targeted by russians. was that all done by russians or any americans involved? those are the questions that mueller, i bet, will get to the bottom of. and i don't think the answer will reflect well. >> mark: as i said, richard, the whole industrial complex

has goal up in smoke if some rinky dink roosky in moscow could swing it for you. at anisn't just text messages. the fbi's fain ma'am must reliance on the trump dossier is doing a good job as well. republican congressman ron desantis of florida says that use of the dossier undermines the basic legitimacy of the fbi's warrant to investigate the trump campaign following last year's election. and congressman desantis joins us now. this is a very interesting legal point you made. if this dossier was the pretext for the entire investigation, it's a kind of almost absurd fruits of the poisonous tree thing in that it's not -- it's not a legit mats pretext for an investigation; is that correct? >> yeah. just think about where this dossier came from. this was padz for by hillary

clinton, the democratic party. they paid millions of dollars to law firm who then laundered it to fusion gps. so have you fusion gps producing this thing. i think christopher steele was more of a cover to make it look like an intelligence product. but to this day, the fbi can't verify anything in it other than one person associated with trump traveled to russia at some point, so this stuff is bogus. it's fake news. and you expect that kind of stuff to be generated in the course of a political campaign. but if that is presented to the fbi, and then they are taking that unverified dossier and launching a federal counter intelligence investigation without anything more, to me, that raises some serious questions. and was it peter strzok who was involved? remember, the key text message was he was in andrew mccabe's office, and they were talking about oh donald

trump can't win and strzok says i don't think the fib can take that risk we need an insurance policy basic live against trump's electric. of the question weastles walls the dossier subsequent investigation he referenced in those text messages. >> mark: what you are saying here is it comes before a caesar judge who isn't an expert in intelligence matters but it's got the fbi, kind of got an mi 6 in prematter because the spook appears to have credentials. and in a sense it would appear to be a plausible document if laid before a judge. is that correct? >> well, that's the question. we have asked the department of justice, the fbi, to give us the information about how the dossier got in their possession. did they pay for the dossier and how did they use the dossier? did they use it as the basis to get these fisa warrants? and they basically refused to answer this question.

this is going to come to a head because i think you are going to see a cob tempt of congress if they don't produce this to the intelligence committee, but that's the question and here's the thing, mark, if the answer to all those questions was know, though will say no, the fact they are haven't to meech raises serious questions. >> mark: they have been looking at this thing for a year and a half now and christopher steele cooked it up in a few weeks. they have been unable to corroborate anything except some guy at some point got on a plane to russia. they don't know what he did once he got off the plane in russia. how many more months or years do they need to supposedly attempt to corroborate this nonsense? >> look, i think it's time to put up or shut up. this whole thing started, you know, obviously after strzok and these guys started the counter intelligence. when mueller got appointed, i think rosenstein made a big mistake. what he was doing was he was

super imposing a criminal prosecutor on top of a counter intelligence investigation. and how good of appear investigation that was, obviously, there is a lot of concern about that. but, there's never been a crime identified here. you can believe that russia tried to hack different people's email accounts, but that doesn't mean that there was a criminal conspiracy with trump's campaign. and there has never been information provided to substantiate that. so i think if he can't answer that question, then i think we need to move on. i think you are going to see the committees in congress move on. and i think the result is going to be no collusion. >> mark: that make a lot of accepts, congressman. thanks for that more liberals are turning on hillary clinton, we'll discuss a liberal magazine that is begging her not to run again next. and we'll show you president obama's attack on the power of social media. all that coming next. ♪

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>> >> obviously. >> cigarettes or gum. >> gum now, baby. >> gum? white house or buckingham palace? >> white house just because buckingham palace looks like it would take a really long time to mow. >> okay, fair enough. >> a lot of upkeep. >> queen or the queen. >> the queen. >> good answer again. >> the rock on chris rock? >> that's an interesting question. i like them both. >> slippery slide or

electric slide. >> electric slide that's my generation. >> and lastly, your last $5 buy a burger or lottery ticket. >> depend on how good the burger is. >> mark: wow, there is a guest host. as a matter of interest prince harry and i are identical twins separated at birth. hard hitting topics there. president obama giving first sit-down interview since leaving office. the former president giving his interview to that royal heinous. president obama spoke quite a bit about himself but also took indirect yet very clear shot at president trump blasting leaders. he says, are warping public discourse by social media. >> the question i think really has to do with how do we harness this technology in a way that allows multiplicity of voices, allows a diversity of views but doesn't lead to a bulk

balkanization of our society but rather continues to promote ways of findings common ground. and all of us in leadership have to find ways in which we can recreate a common space on the internet. >> mark: wendy as self-foe is an education professor. wenty, putting aside the idea president as opposed to a prince in danger of living in a bubble. what do you think he was getting at his o here? was it a shot at president trumr was it a more general observation. >> it was a more general observation. right now the current climate, not just in our country but overseas as well is one where everything is volatile. and people need to be mindful, especially those in power decisions they make. that's what president obama was speaking to especially as a poignant point right

now. >> mark: isn't there is a danger in world leaders, the establishment, the elite saying everything would be better if redidn't have ball cannized multiple voices? when the internet started, one of the great things it did was it freed people from default setting of mainstream media. which is surely liberal. it's surely the bubble, isn't it. >> it's not necessarily the bubble. i wouldn't say mainstream media is the media. look at the network right here. when we try to make those type of narratives and try to make those overarching statements. that exactly negotiates what you are trying to say thrsmght mainstream media at the end of the day has a level of responsibility an our leaders, our elected officials have a tant amount of pawnsability. hymn make sure the policies doesn't just impact our bubble but all of us as citizens. >> mark: what about the idea the media, the default

setting of our society now by which i mean not just media, but motion pictures, churches, schools, the default setting of our society is essentially liberal. if you go to school, you will learn essentially the liberal view on climate change. if you go to church, you will get the liberal view on climate change. what's wrong with a ball cannizing that just a little? >> rye he genetic that premise. i don't believe it's the liberal's view. i actually think's it the popular view. and that's something that conservatives have to start to accept. it's not necessarily that there is a war against people who are conservative or who have right-leaning ideology. it's more so that overall when we lack at issues, they tend to lean and lean on the left side. and just as the truth of the matter. we cannot negate the fact that the popular view often leans to the left. that does not negotiate individuals who are conservative by any means. what's really important here if i can just underscore

this is that americans need allies. the united states needs allies. but, of the volatile behavior of president trump makes that increasingly more difficult. we need to start addressing that as well. >> mark: we will see who winds up sitting in the third row at prince harry's wedding on that one, wendy. the magazine vanity fair is positively begging hillary clinton not to run for president again. take a look at this. ♪ ♪ >> it's time to start working on your sequel to your book what happened, what the hell happened. >> get someone on your tech staff to disable auto fill on i phone so typing f doesn't become explore exploratory commitment. >> you were telling him about o optimal. take a hike in the woods how

else are you going to meet unsuspecting hikers. take up volunteer work, knitting, improv comedy literally anything to keep you from running again. finally put away your james comey voodoo doll. we all know you think james comey lost the election. he might have. it's a year later and time to move on. >> cheers to you, hillary clinton. >> cheers to you, hillary. >> cheers to you, hillary clinton. >> mark: i hope they didn't pay big money for those jokes. wenty, liberals are going nuts over this, people are saying it's time to burn copies of vanity fair. the so-called progressives have no business telling an accomplished woman that she needs to take up knitting. that that's sexist. you do get the sense though that democrats are moving on from hillary. >> yeah. i think democrats are moving on from hillary. i think that the uproar came because we have individuals who alan for president like john mccain, like mitt romney. we did not see this type of

warfare. this is a woman yet she did not win the vote. yes we know she is not the president of the united states. to use such language and say take up knitting. she is the first female to run for office. she has built a boat of work and she doesn't have to be president but she can extend her political. in the midst of this book tour harvey weinstein and harvey and cast her husband and marriage in a new light. is that part of the problem here? >> i don't think that necessarily killed her because she didn't win the vote. it didn't help her by any means. especially that photo going around of her and harvey weinstein looking chummy and comfortable. that didn't help her. again, to sit there and say she should take up knitting when she has done a lot in the political realm is

not -- it doesn't make any sense at all. >> mark: do you regret that your party, progressive party wants to shatter the glass ceiling canada, new zealand, germany, on and on have done. but it chose the wife of the previous president he or she main accomplishment she was the wife of the president who held it before. >> that itself is sexist that ♪ her major accomplishment. she was the secretary of state. she is the first woman to run on a major political party. and she got that vote. so, that's not her major accomplishment that she is the wife of bill clinton. by all means no, she has done other things. was she the best candidate for our party? no, she was not. however, to say that her major accomplishment was being a wife, that's what we talk about who we say sexism in the political sphere. >> mark: okay. i stand reprimanded, wenty.

i will try to do better. france's government is scrambling to deal with a wave of migrants that has flooded its streets. up next, we will try to see what lessons the u.s. can learn from our own migrant situation here. that's next. ♪ ♪ diabetes can be a daily struggle,

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migrant problem. emanuel mccrone ran as liberal but he wants homeless migrants off france's streets by year's end. that probably isn't going to happen now the french is cracking down. authorities are ramping up expulsions, checking ids at emergency shelters and doing a host of other measures to get migrants out of the country and keep them out. does france have a lesson for america's own migration issues? david tafuri is a former state department official and advised the obama campaign on foreign policy. david, it's always interesting to see how countries that have reputations being more liberal and progressive deal with some of these issues. france expels one in five illegal immigrants. if trump did that, he would literally be hitler, even more literally hitler than he already literally is. one in five illegal immigrants get expelled from

france. >> well, i wouldn't agree with that characterization. but you're right, macron is doing some interesting things with respect to migration policy in france. and these are things that france needs to do. here's some of the things it's doing. as you mentioned it's getting. so migrants off the streets but trying to get some of them into shelters. it is also setting up centers in africa for those who are asylum seekers to be identified and observed and chosen from africa so that they know before they go to france whether they are going to get asylum or not. that's also very important limiting those who are examining to go for asylum. hmacron is distinguishing between economic migrants and refugees that meet the standard for refugee meaning they have a well founded fear of death or injury if they are returned to their country of origin. is he accepting asylum seekers true refugees and he

said france is still open for refugees whereas economic migrants is he trying to discourage from coming to france. that's something that we can learn as well. it's something we should be cooking. president trump has nod made that distinction in his policy thus far. >> mark: everyone knows that the refugee system and that status of a genuine fear of persecution is accused routinely in the immigration systems of the west. france is -- if you go to paris, for example. and you can go a couple of blocks from the best hotels, and you would think you were in a country, in a city that has fallen apart. a beautiful city with streets piled with trash. the jungle calais that they shut down has basically mufd to the capital city now. is this not a warning of what happens when essentially you have let anybody who can walk into

your country stay in your country? >> well, that's why macron is doing some of the things that he is doing. trying to make the streets safer. he is also trying to make it safer for some of these migrants by moving them off the streets and moving them into shelters. i want to goback to one other characterization you mentioned which i don't agree with. asylum seekers in the u.s. are not problematic. actually the refugee come into the u.s. and be resettled here as refugees are not engaged in crime. their crime rate is less than the average american. not engaged in terrorism. none of the major terrorist attacks in the u.s. have come from refugees. people who came to the u.s. in other ways. >> what about somalis in minnesota, for example they go back to somalia. they supposedly hear because it's unsafer for them to go back to some middle school i can't. they strap on the old suicide belt and your state department pays to have the

50,000 pregnant wantments of whatever he is left of them for burl in minnesota. >> mark: can you pull out one crazy situation. if you look at the statistics, asylum seekers and refugees in the united states have not engaged in crime and they have not engaged in terrorism. it's because our asylum process has a very substantial vetting procedure. they are vetted overseas. it takes two years for them to go through that vetting process. they are interrogated. they go through questioning. and background checks and by the time they make it here through that difficult process, they normally are law abiding citizens who could contribute to our sews society. i agree we have to do a better of limiting those who come from overseas engage in terrorist attacks and there are many who have done that they have not come through refugees. they come on other ways. they come on visitation visas. they come on family visas. they come through other

means. those are the ones we should be focused on. >> what's the answer to that if you look at the situation of europe to after infantry da will north america to south america. look at the deferential in birth rates, very tiny proportion of the population of africa countries where people have six, seven children, and they can't support the present population. the incentive to just get on a boat and as tucker showed on this show couple beach in spain and walk into europe. what's to prevent people from just walking into the developed world and overwhelming it? >> i have read some overarticles on aging statistics. they are interesting and thoughtful. i think you make good points there one of the ways we stop migration from africa to europe as you mentioned is to set up these centers in africa so there are

staging centers there where people can apply and they will know whether or not they will be given refugee status or not. ultimately we have to do more to turn these countries becoming failed states into more stable, prosperous countries so people do not want to leave them. that's going to take a lot more engagement by europe. europe doing enough in africa to stabilize these countries. >> mark: europe used to do enough and it's called colonialism and imperialism. it's actually very hard, isn't it, to do it one removed by just giving money to international aid and development. >> that's just not what i'm talking about. obviously there is something in between colonialism and zero engagement. we have to be engaged and promoting democracy. we have to be promoting economic prosperity and we have to make these countries safe and prosperous and stable so that people stay there and they don't seek illegal migration. >> mark: thanks for coming on, david. we will try to find where that sweet spot is.

cash is as old as civilization. has technology made it obsolete? up next, tucker is become to talk to an economist who says it's time for all electronic economy. that's next. ♪ i love kiwis. i've always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. super poligrip free. it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. try super poligrip free. ♪

>> tucker: almost since the dawn of civilization cash money has been a critical piece of the economy. ancient time gold and paper coins. today paper money remains the most single popular way to make transactions in this country should it be some economists say day-to-day shopping can easily be done electronically continued use of cash hurts the economy and may even cause crime. kenneth is the harvard professor, former chief economist at the international fund. famous chess player. he said it's time to move

forward towards a cashless society. thanks for coming on. >> thank you for having me. >> tucker: i heard this argument before and i understand i take serious the inefficiencies of cash and the possibilities for crime, transnational crime it avails to criminals. i get all of that but there is also a suspicion that a lot of us have that eliminating it would just increase government power, maybe to a point that's dangerous. is that a concern for you? >> absolutely. so, i actually don't favor getting rid of cash. i favor getting rid of large bills like the 50 and the 100 and similar around the world. i think if you look at the use of cash, actually, by quantity of transactions it's nowhere near the most popular. it's fallen out. it's behind for purchases over, you know, $50 it's debit cards, credit cards, electronic payments. for small payments it's very convenient. of course sometimes somebody

wants to do something for 5,000, even $100,000 they don't want anyone to know. you know, you can carry suitcase of $10 bills, a briefcase of $10 bills $100,000, 20 pounds if you have to do that once in a while. we shouldn't go cashless. but i do think if you look at the declining use of cash, and the rising printing of these big bills, we ought to realize it's for tax evasion. that's much bigger than crime and crime and if you can cut back on tax evasion, you could, for example, lower tax rates. >> tucker: so you do acknowledge those it sounds like you are acknowledging that people have an inherent instinct, desire for privacy. they don't necessarily want anybody, whether it's a bank or the treasury department tracking what they are doing with their money and that's okay, you think? >> well, there is a big difference between somebody doing a wholesale business where they are doing 50,000, $100,000 in transactions

every week and they don't want the government to know and, you know, somebody who is doing something on a much smaller scale. and i think these wholesale transactions are facilitated by these big bills. big, you know, drug kingpins, tax evasion is a huge thing. so, i just think we need to recalibrate it a little bit. not so much eliminate it. >> tucker: are you worried about the vulnerabilities of a digital system? we're moving in that direction anyway. the beauty of cash is it's tangible. you can hide it under your bed. no one can hack $100 bill. are you concerned about tha that? >> i'm very concerned about cyber security. on the other hand, if we have a problem hanging on to the rump of cash we have left not going to save us we need to protect ourselves. if you have a big storm, that knocks out the power system, god forbid an emp blast or something.

>> tucker: right. >> it's very useful to have some rump of cash left there. although, you know, people have been very inventive when that's happened in the past with checks iois and other things. we don't want to get rid of cash completely. i do think if you look at what the government is printing, there is almost pushing over $4,500 for every man woman and child in the united states. and there are lots of surveys even if you take the part that's out of the country. the average person is holding, you know, maybe a couple hundred, 2 or 300, counting in their house, counting in their car. they are not holding $4,500, much less their kids. >> tucker: no, they are not. quickly what do you make of bit coin? where does that fall in the spectrum. >> bit coin is great innovation. the party of it eventually the government has to apply antimony laundering rules. tax rules and other things. i mean, the government can't just look the other way and let people do giant

transactions, transnational, national, and not care about it. it's going to get regulated. i think the long run bit coin is great technology but it's more likely to look like myspace that lost out to facebook. than it is to look like the next big thing. >> tucker: right. because it is a threat to the government in the end. and you never win threatening the government. >> in the currency game, the government makes the rules. so this idea that you can invent a currency that wins out, it's nonsense. it's a great technology. >> tucker: i love the idea of it though. professor, thanks for coming on. that was interesting. >> thank you very much for having me. >> mark: the winter olympics quickly approaching and this year we may be seeing some transgender athletes competing. will they have an unfair advantage. we will talk to a transgender athlete next on tucker carlson tonight. days and nights out of sync,

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♪ >> mark: we have an update in sheely jackson lee of texas. earlier this week united airlines passenger jean marie simon was exiled to an

economy seat despite buying a first class ticket then she saw her seat handed other to she'll lay jackson lee. after ms. simon resigned jackson lee statement she was racist even to object. that's not true at all. ms. simon is a human rights activist who spent much of her life campaigning on behalf of paul guatemalaens. sheila jackson lee meanwhile has spend her life running for re-election playing the race card and becoming notoriously unpleasant airline passenger in the process who would you side with? the 2018 winter olympics in south korea, just about a month away. and if any transgender athlete seek to compete they will be welcomed with open arms. ioc rules allow for transgender athletes to compete as their preferred

gender. biological male winning a gold medal in a women's event now seems a matter of when. not if. joanna harper is transgendered an an athlete. and argues that transgender competitors don't enjoy any advantage. joanna, there are a lot of people who in this age of gender fluidity take a relaxed view of it and accept that you choose which bathroom to use and all that. but when it comes to sport, when it comes to who is the fastest, who is the strongest, when you are running around a 400-meter track, that basically from gender fluidity back to two biological sexes. have male have distinct advantage. where are they going wrong on that? >> well, first of all, biology is actually quite complex. and so to suggest that

biology is dimorphic is incorrect. it is learn i true that people gone through male pursuant, especially do have substantial advantages. and to be clear, the ioc rules say that transgender women can only compete in women sports after they have gone through a year of low testosterone due to hormone therapy. and that actually changes many biological characteristics and especially those characteristics that are important for sport. and the second thing i would like to say is that i have always admitted that transgender women have advantages over typical women. but also disadvantages, too. the important question is can the two groups compete against one another. >> mark: right. >> equitably and

meaningfully? >> mark: let's look at the tests and the testing that you mentioned. where they say you have to -- maybe can you actually explain this in layman's terms. you are a scientist. you understand a lot of this. but lowering testosterone and the thing is you have to have your testosterone levels bo below 10 nano model. if i can think about i can think about what a nanomols per liter. 90% of female athletes their testosterone levels are around 3 per liter. in other words, this you were limit is three times what would be typical in a female athlete. so it seems like a kind of ararbitrary setting unreality to the realities of the situation. >> well, i actually agree

with you there. and, in fact, i am part of a committee that has recently recommended that we lower that limit from 10 to 5. and it's important to understand that that's a limit. the vast majority of transgender women will keep their testosterone below 3 and in fact below 2 and usually below one. >> mark: right. >> this is you were limit. i absolutely agree 10 is too high and our committee has recommended bringing it down to five. >> mark: you mention that it's not like a binary boy/girl thing. there was -- i think she was south african fleet who competed in the athletes and the commonwealth games a couple years back and her fellow female competitors were convinced that at a certain level she was transgender. and the authorities ended up actually testing her to find out whether she was

transgendered because her levels were believed to be extraordinarily high. i wonder if we are in danger in the end of just killing women's sport by this kind of my crow regulation of the mie d.n.a. of each participant? >> first of all, the athlete in question was almost undoubtedly intersex which some people may not be familiar with that term. but hermaphrodite may be a term. intersection pima have a mix of male and female characteristics. and she is almost undoubtedly intersection. there are different issues than with transgender athletes. it's important to separate the two. but, again, it is important

to have fair play. it is important to -- that introducing intersection and/or transgender athletes does not overly effect the playing field that exists. and transgender athletes, in particular, are hugely under represented in women's sports. in other words, if you were to look at the population of transgender athletes, you would expect that there would be a lot more athletes than there actually are. >> mark: we will see where that ends up, joanna. it may well be that men and women just end up running around the track all together in their undies separate events anymore. first, the left agitated over racist trees as we reported yesterday. enough to another tree controversy. this one involving the first family. that's next. ♪ ♪ what throbbing head?

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>> mark: racist trees are so last week it turns out. now the problem is anti-tree discrimination. at least at&t according to the intrepid lads at wall street. they prurend a misleading headline warning that first lady melania trump had ordered the destruction of a magnolia tree planted almost two centuries ago by andrew jackson. the headline melania trump orders removal of near 200-year-old tree from the white house as though the harbor foe bic first lady first lady hates nature and destroyed the tree in a fit of peek. the tree fell unhealthy. it could fall over at any time. melania trump approved its removal at the recommendation of several specialists. a panel of tree fellows. three of them. "newsweek" updated the body of the story but the misleading headline remains even after they were called

out. frankly though, we're surprised "newsweek" was so concerned in the first place. the tree is old. was planted by andrew jackson so doubtless it's a very racist plant and should be removed. david webb is in for hannity. >> david: how do i follow that, thank you, mark. welcome to hannity i'm david webb in for hannity tonight. major news about the fake an tri trump dossier. byron york from "the washington examiner" reporting that house intelligence chairman devon nunes is issuing a subpoena to david kremer who is a former state department employer with ties to senator john mccain and accord dog york, kremer traveled to london in november of 2016 to meet with then dossier author christopher steele. cramer then gave the dossier to senator mccain when he returned to the u.s. byron also reporting that during a december interview with house investigations kremer said he knew the