under control. >> julie: yes, i am. it's almost friday. hump day as they say. >> jon: thank you for joining us. >> julie: we are out of here. outnumbered starts now. >> sandra: a fox news alert for you. steve bannon is going to be called back for another interview before the house intelligence committee tomorrow. that's because after 10 hours of closed door testimony yesterday he refused to answer many of their questions about president trump. and his time working with the trump white house. even after he was subpoenaed. now a top democrat is accusing him of complying with what amounted to a white house gag order. this is outnumbered. i'm sandra smith. here today harris faulkner, the editor of town hall.com katie pavlich. co-host after the bell melissa francis and joining us today on the couch is the host of the next revolution and former chief strategist for british prime minister david cameron steve hilton is here all the way from the west coast. we love to have you.

>> steve: it's so great to be here. it's been a while. i was just saying i haven't been on the couch since you have had palatial new surroundings. >> harris: we haven't had a revolution since you left. bring it on a wednesday. steve: we will do our best. >> melissa: do you know he doesn't have a phone? i don't even know what to do. steve: ditch the bannon topic. >> melissa: blows my mind. i have my pen stuck in my pocket. >> harris: i have seen you take notes while people are talking. fascinating. >> sandra: let's get started. lawmakers are try going to try to get answers out of chief white house strategist steve bannon tomorrow. this after more than 10 hours yesterday as part of their probe into russian election interference. there was plenty they wanted to know but he wouldn't give them many answers. even after they hit him with a subpoena. the ranking democrat on the committee california congressman adam schiff says bannon's lawyer said his client was willing to talk but the white hous told him not.

schiff says that's unacceptable. >> the scope of this assertion of privilege, if that's what it is, is breathtaking. it goes well beyond anything we have seen in this investigation. this was effectively a gag order by the white house preventing this witness from answering almost any question concerning his time in the transition or the administration and many questions even after he left the administration. >> sandra: special counsel robert mueller also subpoenaed bannon to appear before a grand jury. a source tells fox news bannon reached an agreement with the special counselor's office to do an interview rather than appear before the grand jury. yesterday's developments on capitol hill raised questions about how much white house communications director picks and former trump campaign manager corey lewandowski will reveal when they go before the house intelligence committee. chief white house correspondent john roberts is live for us at the white house.

john? >> sandra, good afternoon to you. yes, fox news has confirmed that steve bannon will indeed sit down for an interview with robert mueller's office. last week he had been issued a subpoena to appear before a grand jury, fox news is told that was likely an overreach by the fbi, which may have been occasioned by the fbi not initially being able to get in touch with bannon. after negotiations between bannon's attorney bill burke and mueller's office, bannon will now sit down for an interview like the other current and former white house staffers would ho have been questioned by mueller investigators. he will sit down with mueller and answer any questions asked of him. the white house has never, sources say, asked anybody who has been interviewed by mueller's office to not talk about the goings on here at the white house or the transition. that's a big difference from yesterday as you pointed out when bannon refused to answer any questions about his time in the white house or transition in his appearance before the house intelligence committee. an appearance that left even

republican members of congress trey gowdy frustrated. >> i am frustrated whenever people assert priferlings that do not exist i am really frustrated when witnesses are time to talk to people on and off the record and they can write books but can't talk to the representatives elected by their fellow citizens. picture that is he happy to tell an author about treasonous unpatriotic acts but he won't tell members of congress when he is pressed on it. i'm not aware of any privilege that let's you pick and choose who you answer questions for. >> bannon's attorney said yesterday that he had been instructed by the white house to not talk about his time at the white house or the transition or any of the conversations that he had with the president that could be covered by privilege. the white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders would not confirm yesterday that the white house indeed had had that conversation with bannon and/or his attorney. but did point to the white house's long standing position on such matters. listen here.

>> there is a statement and i will read as it all congressional inquiries touching upon the white house, congress must consult with the white house prior to obtaining confidential material. this is part of a judicially recognized process that goes back decades. we have been cooperating fully with these ongoing investigations and encourage the committees to work with us to find an appropriate accommodation in order to ensure congress obtains information necessary to its legitimate interests. >> in fact, in terms of a judicially recognized process, there were many times during the obama administration that either executive privilege was asserted or they wouldn't talk about certain things. fast and furious comes to mind. and this white house is still, you know, operating by those judicially recognized principles. that said though, we will hear probably -- well, we will not, but mueller's office will hear a lot more from steve bannon and the intelligence committee did yesterday or as likely to today. sandra, tell steve i love his new suit jacket.

[laughter] >> sandra: i will do that john roberts, thank you. >> sandra: a lovely suit jacket that is. that is your standard uniform though. steve: yeah, no. even in the daytime i make an effort when i'm hosting my own show i go all out. >> harris: you only show up like this when it's somebody else's show and 13 degrees outside. >> sandra: trey gowdy makes a good point. steve bannon can talk to somebody all day long when writing a book but when it comes to talking to the house intel committee don't talk? steve: we all felt that way when watching him. steve bannon must be regretting every hour of every day talking so openly to michael wolff for that book it's caused him problems. watching that i had a couplely intense emotional reaction. i'm so sick of adam schiff. is he just so pompous the way he comes out day after day grandstanding on this. he is clearly decided that this is the way to build his political career. and i'm just sick of hearing

him lecture the rest of us on all this stuff. i'm also sick of the whole story, frankly. it seems to me that you get into the weeds of this story day after day after day. it's a story about itself. it's not about anything real and important in the real world anymore. >> melissa: let me take the other side of that though the president is saying he got burned once on bannon out there flapping his gums so he doesn't want it to happen again. and he is saying, look, i have the right to have, you know, discussions, frank discussions with my aids. and if i'm thinking he this are going to walk out and say something all the time then i'm not going to have frank discussion then why even have aides. this is the other side. i'm not saying that's my opinion i' m putting the other side of the argument out there. >> katie: i think it's fine for the white house to call steve bannon and say we're happy with you talking about what happened during the campaign but when it comes toll what happened after the campaign keep it between the white house and you. this investigation on capitol hill and special counsel we have been over this a million times is to

talk about collusion during the campaign. so why is it that lawmakers on capitol hill, especially adam schiff who has political goals here in addition to what he says is finding the truth. why do they want to know all the details about the transition when it actually doesn't have anything to do with the initial purpose of the investigation? >> harris: i think another reason why the white house is probably wise to do this and certainly within their bounds to do this is because steve bannon was talking in the book about things that he didn't have direct knowledge of. and so i don't know how much more of that you necessarily need on the record. he wasn't at those meetings, corey lewandowski told me that yesterday. you know, there were certain things that he just simply wasn't present for. so when you use a word like treasonous. it's coming not from a place of having been there or knowing, it's coming from more opinion. i think the white house has every trite protect itself from transition and current white house staff. >> sandra: perhaps this changes the story a bit. this is the a.p. reporting

according to people familiar with this closed door session that steve bannon's attorney was in radial time relaying questions during the white house intel interview with steve bannon. bannon's attorney was asking the white house counsel's office the a.p. report whether his client could answer questions again in realtime. your thoughts? steve: that is an amazing, way to run one of these hearings. no wonder people came out of that thinking we have never seen anything like this before and both sides, republicans and democrats got annoyed. i can understand that i just come back to fundamental point here which is to what end is all this being pursued. i don't think there is a single person including adam schiff, frankly who believes in the starting point of all of this which is somehow

that trump campaign conspired with the russians to win the election. i don't think anyone really believes that now, along the way there may have been missteps and coverups and so on. but the fundamental point is just completely been lost because no one really believes in it. >> harris: well, i don't know how -- you know, i would want to get some legal counsel on whether or not it's not okay for attorney to talk to attorney in realtime. is it a measure of technology? i mean, certainly it wasn't open to the public. but, how is that any different than things necessarily. >> sandra: interesting you should say that the reporting, to your point, it's unclear that a.p. is reporting who bannon's attorney was communicating in realtime inside the white house. who that was. or whether it was the top white house lawyer don mccann, of course. haters hairs attorney to attorney. >> sandra: another important aspect this gets interesting and burke bannon's lawyer is also representing mccann, the top white house lawyer and special counsel robert mueller's investigation we should point out.

>> katie: it's all tied together and bottom line the only investigation that really matters is robert mueller's investigation. steve bannon is going to sit down with him after having asked to go in front of a grand jury and robert mueller is the one who is handing down indictments, not the house intelligence committee. so that's the person he is really going to have to worry about. steve: by the way, melissa, did you see what sandra just did there with the phone? i couldn't have done that. [laughter] they do have their uses. i give you that. >> harris: have you got to have one to use one. >> sandra: all right. on the same day the president said he would release his, quote, fake media awards, republican jeff flake taking to the senate floor this morning to blast the president over his relationship with the press. we are awaiting any new reaction from the white house. plus, prominent democrats threatening to shut down the government if they don't get an immediate deal to protect those so-called dreamers. republicans saying it's ridiculous to put this single issue and artificial

deadlines above all else. >> it makes no sense for democrats to try and bring to us a shut down. so i think cool heads hopefully will prevail on this thing. ♪ >> tech: at safelite autoglass

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>> harris: fox news alert over new concerns of a potential government shut down. republican leaders float ago new funding proposal democrats and even some republicans are threatening to vote against it. for democrats the sticking point is a deal for the so-called dreamers. they want permanent protection for illegal immigrants brought to the united states illegally as children. but they won't agree to the president's demands for stronger immigration controls. the president is standing firm. he tweeted this new report from doj and dhs shows nearly 3 in 4 individuals convicted of terrorism charges are foreign-born. we have submitted to congress a list of resources and reforms. we need to keep america safe. including moving away from a random chain migration and lottery system to one that is merit-based. chief of staff john kelly met with the congressional hispanic caucus just a little while ago, a sign the white house is still working

with democrats. house speaker paul ryan saying that rushing a dreamer's deal is not the way to go. he says the country needs a long-term solution. >> these are talks that are occurring in ernest. we want to fix daca. we want to fix daca in a balanced way so that we don't have the same problem down the road. that's just pure common sense. that means a daca solution that involves security measures that makes sure that we don't have another daca problem down the road. >> harris: democrats want a deal right now. question is if they don't get it are they willing to seat government shut down on friday? >> there is no reason that any short-term deal should exclude the dreamers. we have a moral principle at stake with the dreamers. these young people were brought here as infants, as young children. no choice of their own. and we need to keep our promises as a great nation. >> harris: meanwhile speaker ryan unveiled stop gap spending bill last night

extends fund are fots the government. we will do this week by week. >> i love it. >> harris: delays several obamacare taxes and extends child healthcare funding for six years. does not include dreamers. chip, health insurance for children, six years is a big nugget. democrats have said that's a deal breaker too. that's not kicking the can down the road that substantively deals with that particular issue. >> melissa: it does. i want to go back to this other meeting. we are learning more about this rough meeting where was there was the rough language and blah blah. i saw you drilling down on in this morning. we are learning that it feels like some folks try to do a hustle job on the president and bring him a deal they said that didn't include all the relevant details. it didn't include everything that they have talked about. and if you look at some of what was in there, it was very strong on fixing daca and immigration and very light on doing anything

around the border. and you are getting the sense that maybe that strong language was around the fact that they brought him something and said you said you would sign something and this is from everyone. he said wait a second this isn't something from everyone. it was a hustle. >> katie: that was lindsey graham working with dick durbin who is the one who blew up the meeting in the first place and all the goodwill that had happened. and talking about the language for a week. i mean, that's disingenuous, right? >> harris: this is new. i mentioned that meeting with the members of the hispanic caucus. representative and also senator menendez of new jersey have just come out of that meeting and talked with our producer. the democrat from arizona says i leave the meeting with not a great deal of optimism. i think it was a rehash of previous discussions with general kelly staff of the white house in terms of he said it's mainly congress' problem to get this solved. steve? steve: i just think that the democrat position here is completely unreasonable and

indefensible and frankly these expressions of moral concern that you hear just slightly bogus. if that was really true. if they really cared about fixing daca and the dreamers, they wouldn't do what keith ellison, the deputy dnc chair said the other day, which is to basically make a clean daca. daca with nothing else attached. a litmus test. he used those words. and if they really cared about the plight of these people i think we all agree with the plight, they would do this deal. >> harris: 55-minute epic meeting that we all got to watch and peal back the curtain on dianne feinstein was called by the president tell me your ideas and she did and that was one of them. then you saw kevin mccarthy perhaps not completely clean because we have other things that need to go along with that. >> katie: paul ryan made the point we have to do daca in the right way non-rushed thoughtful fashion because it is important. it has to be a long-term solution. we don't want it to happen again. the problem is democrats refuse to acknowledge is that open borders are

inhumane borders. the dhs secretary talked about this yesterday. coyotes take advantage of somebody who want to come here for a better life. turn it into a business. modern day slavery. human trafficking across the southern border. republicans are trying to prevent that by putting in some border security and at the same time taking care of the people who were brought here by their parents. steve: the other thing that i think is important to focus on here is the impact on people's faith in democracy. all the time we hear from the democrats that president trump is undermining democracy and democratic norms. just think about this, in the elections campaign, build the wall was one of the main things that was put on the agenda that people voted for. he won. if after all this, such a simple, clear promise is not actually delivered really undermines people's faith in the whole system. >> sandra: chairman matt thornberry house services committee this morning said this holds our military hostage as far as the

spending is concerned. and that was his primary concern fresh out of the meeting at the pentagon. >> harris: all we have heard democrats talk about though are chip and daca. they got six years on chip in this, for all this millions of children. i think 9 million of them that depend on that health insurance. it's a gap between medicaid and their parents and what they can afford. democrats are getting six years on a cr, on a continuing resolution. i don't know how they explain that to their base, if you will, if they don't at least entertain the idea of signing this. let's move on. the president says today today is the day he will name the winners of his fake news award. whether he should be intensifying the battle or if he is just giving as good as it gets from the press. and reporters are grilling the white house doctor about the president's health. some questions and some are more important than others. we will talk about it all. stay close. >> does the president wear dentures. >> sometimes it sounds like

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>> i just want to thank everybody for being here. >> mr. president, mr. president, mr. president did you say that you want more people to come in from norway. did you say you wanted more people to come in from norway. >> thank you very much. thank you very much. >> is that true, mr. president. >> i want them to come in from everywhere. everywhere. thank you very much, everybody. >> just caucasian or white countries sir? or do you want people to come in from other parts of the world where they are people of color? >> thanks, everyone. >> harris: that was president trump and cnn's jim acosta at the white house yesterday. after acosta was badgering the president with some racially charged questions. today, president trump is set to announce thinks fake news awards. though it isn't clear exactly when or how that is actually going to take place.

to coincide with the announcement, republican senator jeff flake of arizona took to the senate floor today to give a speech criticizing mr. trump for his attacks on the media. >> the enemy of the people was how the president of the united states called the free press in 2017. mr. president, it is the testament of the condition of our democracy that our own president uses words infamously spoken by joseph stalin to describe his enemies. the president has it precisely backward. despotism is the enemy of the people. press doesn't suit him fake news it is that figure should be the figure of suspicion not the press. >> sandra: john mccain wrote op-ed called on the president to stop attacking the press. sarah huckabee sanders suggests the media is not fair when it comes to

covering president trump. >> i think it's disgraceful the way the president is treated. if he was anybody else, the media would be going on and on trumpeting his successes. we have the best economy we have had in decades. people are back at work. things are going well for america. and we have a president that is putting our country first and i think that's something that should be celebrated, not mocked, not laughed at. and certainly not attacked. every second of every day. >> sandra: according to analysis by the media research center the coverage of president trump in his first year in office was 90% negative. steve hilton is on the couch. steve: a lot to say about it. first of all, get to jeff flake. is he just pandering to the establishment, the he let, i don't know what his plans are when he leaves the senate, is he so pompous. is he everything that people hate about politics and why people voted for trump. to say that credit siding

media coverage is the same as despotism is so absurd and over the top. the president is not trying to close down the press. is he just fighting back. and in a good job, too. because for years, decades, probably, have you had republicans of all kinds right across the spectrum not just populist republicans like president trump today describe as mainstream establishment republicans. completely dismissed and derided by the media. and they have never fought back. >> sandra: so rewind to that moment there in the white house, melissa, it seems like you enjoyed that jim acosta kept firing off questions the president says out. >> melissa: i'm glad people got to see that exchange see swh someone wants to be the story instead of reporting the story what jim acosta on cnn is all about. you can say his first question did you say you want more people to come from norway? is that true? fair question. he says i want them to come from everywhere. thank you very much. everybody. and then acosta follows up

with an invented question that has nothing to do with anything that he made up that was already answered to just caucasian or white countries, sir or do you want people from all over the world he? already said everywhere. people of color. trump is like you are kidding, right? the president is out, out. it is so clear he wants to be the story himself. >> katie: as if a conservative reporter in the white house pool, if they had behaved that way to president barack obama i think they would have been told to get out as well and then their phone records would have been collected and given over to the justice department. >> harris: oh, wow. >> katie: that's really what would have happened. to jeff flake's speech, is president trump rough on the press? yes. when jeff flake goes so far in his exaggeration to compare him to someone like joseph stalin, not only does it do a huge disservice and disrespect to joseph stalin's victims and other victims of communism and fascism, but it also makes it so you can't actually get to the crux of the argument

which is, yes, the president could be a little let's combat tia bucombative but the s could be more accurate about the questions that impact american lives. >> sandra: as we work our way into 2018, harris, will he stay on this message and continue his attacks on the media? >> harris: i think it plays well for him. he tweets around the media, all of us. i mean, he can set his tone for the begin of guilty day. i want to concentrate on just a second for senator flake. because the president doesn't have to really do anything about him. he has already said he is exiting. so he is dropping little cow patties on the floor of the senate and then is he just going to let them steam and walk on out. why do i put it that way? because if you really want to go man-on-man. he didn't stay he was going to back off that language. that's how he drew attention to the speech. my big question is when you vote with the president north of 90% of the time

according to tracking service we watch. they look at how everybody votes, when you vote in concert with the president yet you want to make your mind somebody who is opposite him, then stick around and stay in the fight and really fight for what you believe in. i don't know from that speech what he necessarily believes in about this president. i just know that he has a bone to pick publicly and he is going to make his name doing that. steve: so much of the elite criticism of this president is all about the tone and the language and the style and the substance as he said half his critics actually agree. but the real point for the president to focus on which i think he is doing is deliver real results. especially for the working americans that put him. >> harris: can he count on flake to help him to do that because he votes with the president most of the time. reporters peppering white house position ronni jackson about the president's health and lifestyle for more than

50 minutes. jackson who served as white house doctor to president obama and president bush says the president is in excellent physical and cognitive health and the press going in then deeper. here it is. >> can you assess the president's mental fitness for office? >> on what basis would you, and this is just a philosophical question, advise the cabinet that the president is unable to discharge his duties? >> sometimes it sounds like he has the sniffles when he is talking, does he have any allergies or anything like that? >> does the president do anything at all right now in terms of exercise? >> there was an incident recently where the president appeared to slur his words while giving andreas. did you look into what the cause of that might have been at all? >> was there anything you are keeping from us for privacy reasons? >> did have you sleep test? >> do you have any concerns about the president's twitter? >> rule out anything like early onset alzheimer's? are you ruling out dementia type symptoms. >> eating chicken and fishes and white meats? >> did you address drug

addiction? >> some of the president's friends have told reporters in the past they think he is a germ phone. >> when the president has colon as spi next physical will he be sedated? >> was there anything that the president or anyone else specifically said for you not to mention today? do does the president wear dentures? >> can you explain how a guy who eats mcdonald's and kentucky fried chicken and all those diet cokes and never exercises is as in good as shape as he is in. >> is he only allowed to one one scoop of ice cream now? >> harris: mcdonald's salads are delicious. >> i don't think the president is getting salads. >> harris: not to make this about jim acosta. steve: jim acosta always. >> harris: that reporter's name. the question is you want the person standing at the lecturn to break hippa laws and tell you tell something told not to repeat that was private to jim acosta? wow, is he rolling like a

baller. steve: this so reminds me weirdly of the whole russia thing. because, they can't believe what they are -- it's got to be true that the president is crazy and unfit because that's the story they have told themselves. they keep going on. >> harris: why do they think they are going to get private details from the doctor? steve: there has got to be a reason that he won the election because he couldn't have done it on his own merit it has to be russia. >> harris: are are we so afield that these words don't give you, i don't know, peace in the president is healthy. >> melissa: have you people who couldn't mind if he killed over tomorrow asking about chicken and fish and salad. all i can say is the president troll, troll, troll. he said look, we're going to leave the doctor out there as long as possible. they made total -- to your point. >> harris: got to use a different word this week.

>> melissa: of themself being up there. >> sandra: some say why didn't the doctor say perfect health. cognitive test? >> katie: because the president asked him to go out and detail every single thing. the strategy was strong. in addition to the president volunteering for the cognitive test, which you know, what are the reporters going to say to that? and kudos to rachel for that montage. that was amazing. if you actually missed it. >> harris: our senior producer. >> katie: that is "saturday night live" quality. >> katie: they are still talking about it today, still questioning today the doctor who tweeted president obama missed anything. are you sure he doesn't have early onset of alzheimer's? i'm sorry, i know this is the most important person in the country but, when we start talking about colonoscopies, i'm out. we don't need to know about that. >> harris: you and i can both attest to this for having the karageorge that we have done over the years and that is that yeah, the

press corps will ask questions of each doctor of whatever. but this was 50 minutes. >> katie: tmi. >> harris: this was his own exam. steve: so upset. eat chicken -- >> katie: friday chicken. someone asked also if he addicted to drugs and the doctor's response is he is not addicted to anything. >> harris: have we gone if these words don't give you peace. the president is healthy. we will move on. a possible new twist in the investigations into the infamous anti-trump dossier. the reported ties between the obama administration and the former spy, the british spy who helped put the dossier together. the new questions this raises. stay close. ♪ patrick woke up with a sore back.

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>> melissa: possible new front into the congressional probe into the steele dossier. "the washington examiner" reports investigators may now be looking into whether the obama state department had any role in the collection and spread of that unverified information. a new book claiming that dossier author christopher steele was well connected within the obama state department. quote, between 2014 and 2016, steele authored more than 100 reports shared wide within the state department. more than 100 reports? and sent up to secretary of state john kerry many of steele's secret sources were the same sources who would supply information on trump. what do you think about that? >> katie: i think the more and more we learn about this the more we understand that there are multiple factions of the obama administration that were involved in this. let's not forget that

samantha power was the u.n. ambassador under the state department who was accused of unmasking americans, working for the transition campaign for president trump. so, i think that we learn more and realize that this was not just a single dossier hired out by a rogue agency. it was a well-coordinated effort to take down donald trump. and the more and more relearned the more that proves true. >> melissa: you go through this whole thing and his word was like gospel. no one better on russia than this michael steele and that he is handing things over and they are like yes, yes, yes. and, yet, he is the one that had to share what he had learned about president trump in the hotel with this whole preposterous story that we can't repeat on television. this guy who came up with that his word was gospel? >> harris: you mean christopher steele, right? i just want to say that because michael steele is an actual person who used to be are the rnc in case he is watching. >> melissa: thank you. steve: i think what it speaks to is this general --

i think just like with some of the other things we have been talking about. they wanted it to be true. they wanted to believe the worse and what it's all about, i think, this really common thread through a lot of this stuff which is the establishment, the people in power, both politically and in the bureaucracy. by the time they got to 2016 they thought trump presidency was just unthinkable. it shouldn't be allowed to happen. it looked like it might happen and anything has to be done to stop it. there is another element to this story about the involvement of the british intelligence agencies which was one of the stories in the michael wolff book, which is that the original -- the origin of president trump belief that he was being wiretapped in trump tower which he put out that tweet that everyone went nuts about actually was tony blair. the former prime minister who told jared kushner in the white house that the mi 6 had been asked by the u.s.

intelligence agencies to do the wiretapping because they couldn't do it directly. now, blare has denied that story. we should make that clear. but, you know, there is more to this than just this notion one guy. i think there is a whole establishment effort to undermine donald trump. >> katie: element of this left accusing the right, meaning the trump campaign of collusion for a year now the more information we find out, they are accusing their opponents of exactly what they were doing based on the evidence. >> harris: not me, what about you? >> right. look over there they are doing it. not us. >> harris: all of this and legal experts i have asked and lawmakers i have asked this question. what is the end game with this? i mean, are we really shocked that 2 political parties hate each other enough that they do dastardly things? >> i haven't used that word dastardly since like geraldo rivera. seriously are we shocked? what is the end game? is there something that criminally that can be gone after? i ask this because i think

the american people probably get that these political parties hate each other enough for that really, if someone was willing to do all of the things on this one political side against another, what can we do? >> steve: this is worse than that. this is not just political. this is the involvement of the bureaucracy. which is supposed to be impartial. this is not running negative ads and so on and digging up dirt. >> harris: bias of an agency. getting the. >> harris: what should be accountability? hairs whars is the penalty for that? >> katie: jail. if you were wiretapping your opponent. if you are using the government as your own tool, i mean, that's really -- that's the demise of our whole democracy. >> harris: all right. they are telling me we have to go. politico reporting the dnc is on the verge of complete collapse of election rigging during the 2016 primary between hillary clinton and bernie sanders whether the dems can regain voters' trust in time in the mid

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>> sandra: we're outnumbered in just a moment first to harris. >> harris: white house press secretary joins me with the white house already pushing back against the so-called gang of six immigration bill today is there any hope left for government shut down on friday. chris stewart of the house intelligence committee will tell me what it was like in the room yesterday when steve bannon refused to take some questions and his lawyer said the white house is telling him to keep quiet. what does he expect when steve bannon's back for more questioning tomorrow. that and more outnumbered overtime the top of the hour. o.t., baby. sandra, back to you. >> sandra: good stuff, harris, we look forward to it. thank you. >> katie: the head of the democratic national committee sounding alarm over the party's national arm ahead of the midterm elections. according to politico, tom perez says he needs to quote rebuild almost every facet of the organization after the bruising fight between hillary clinton and bernie sanders. and lingering bitterness fueled by allegations the

clinton campaign used the committee to tip the primary in her favor. add to that alleged indifference by former president obama and financial mismanagement by former chair debbie wasserman schultz. and now bernie sanders' former campaign manager saying they will likely not share the campaign's massive voter lists with the party. revenge, right, steve? steve: yeah. you can't under estimate the bitterness and feuding within the democratic party that lingers on from the election. the establishment wing thought it was all being lined up for hillary. they are incredibly angry bernie sanders not just for the campaign but the way he did it, in particular highlighting the corruption that he argued she represented which went on to damage her in the campaign. and this goes on. it's actually not just personalities over there. there is a real philosophical divide here. i talk about a lot of time on our show the next revolution this is a populist version of the

liberal agenda that bernie sanders. at least that is in touch with working americans focused on this sort of core aspects of daily life and economics whereas the establishment democrats is just off on this kind of identity politics the whole time. >> katie: on this issue of unity and having different ideology keith ellison ran for chair deputy chair fighting with tom perez allegedly he said functioning unity is something that we have got to build back over time. functioning unity. so they are trying to act like they are unified but they are admitting it's not very functional. melissa melts i thought it was interesting when they said we are not going to let you use the bernie sanders list like atm. important he really ignited a spirit where people were giving $5, $10, and they raised a ton of money and those same people would be very distressed now by what is going on in the country and that's a very valuable list. they are like forget it, we got screwed. we are not just going to give you the email list. that's not fair. he never had a chance of winning that primary we

learned. >> katie: sandra, isn't that a difference in ideology as well in terms of respecting those voters and those donors not taking them for granted like the dnc has done for a long time? >> katie: right. when it comes to putting -- i'm surprised here we are sitting in mid january and we don't really know what their message is yet. i mean, election year, hello. can they get that message together especially when these trump and republicans they have got a strong economic message and now records. steve: their message is anti-trump. that was hillary's message in 2016. it's not enough because people want real change in their life. they are actually getting it under the trump administration. >> katie: robby mike the former campaign manager for hillary clinton saying the russia narrative is not something we can run on in 2018. pay attention to what the voter wants and act like any voter that does. what are you doing for me democrats don't seem like they have that message ready to go yet.

>> sandra: more outnumbered in just a moment. hello, i'm an idaho potato farmer.

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disagreeable. it's my favorite thing. sunday night. steve: exactly 9 eastern. >> sandra: that's it for us. back on tv tomorrow at noon eastern and here is harris. >> harris: this is happening right now. we are awaiting the start of the white house press briefing as bipartisan senators are set to release their immigration plan despite push back from the president and a government shut down looming. we're going outnumbered overtime now. i'm harris faulkner. as they bring up that picture, you will see that the room is filling up now where they will hold that white house press briefing. the logjam over immigration is expected to be a hot topic at today's briefing. which could kick off at any moment now so we are going to stay with that. this as demonstrators are calling for dreamer's bill to dissend upon capitol hill, so-called gang of six. three republicans, three democrats. look at your screen. there they are. they are set to unwrap their immigration