doesn't she look awesome? believed to be the inspiration for the famous poster showing a woman flexing her arms we can do it. she was 96 years old and we can miss her. we will see you back here tomorrow night, tucker is up next. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." today was a big win, or seem to be, for republicans in the congress. democrats gave to their demands, the government is back open. details on that and just a minute. new text messages tonight from the fbi with stunning revelations about the hillary clinton revelation. even if you think you know a lot about it, stay tuned. pretty remarkable. but first, for more than a year on the show we have discussed our country's immigration policies. pretty much every night we have asked supporters of open borders how can you justify this? to american citizens benefit from these policies are not? we still don't know. finally from msnbc comes an

answer. on our we can show this saturday, anchor joey read interviewed a genealogist who had done historical research on my family. apparently one of my ancestors came to this country in 1860 from switzerland. i didn't even know that until the show aired because i have zero interest in the subject. i was more than 150 years ago. it is irrelevant to the decisions that i make as a father or as a citizen or an employee of fox news. it tells us precisely nothing about our modern immigration policy. america's economy has changed quite a bit since the civil war. according to msnbc, this fact is a conversation and are. a single 19th century swiss relative means you are now required to support green cards for everyone who jumps the borders or overstates a visa in 2018. boom, case closed! answered just put it, people in genealogical glass houses shouldn't throw stones. meaning me. as is so often the case, it's

hard to know exactly whether this was meant as a legitimate point of debate or whether it was part of an elaborate parody, monty python does daca. there's absolutely no doubt about the sincerity of what came next. here's joy reid's response. she wasn't joking at all. watch. >> tucker has been one of the most aggressive at putting forward what a lot of people have seen is a pretty blatantly why should nationalist view of what immigration should be like. >> tucker: joy reid is accusing us of racism. let's pause for a moment and savor the irony of that. reid's entire public career has been built on the race baiting. try to watch her show for 20 minutes and see for yourself. this is the woman who urged the democratic party to give up on white voters who voted for obama and then trumpet, saying their votes weren't worth fighting for. that was last august. in october she suggested that white house chief of staff john kelly was somehow a bigot because he grew up around irish catholics. after house majority whip states the lease was shot and nearly

killed by a progressive activist last summer, reid openly wondered if we should hope for his recovery. watch. >> it's a delicate thing because obviously everyone is wishing the congressman well and hoping that he recovered, but steve scalise has a history that we've all been forced to sort of ignore on race. he did come to leadership after some controversy over attending a white nationalist event, which he says he didn't know what it was. he also cosponsored a bill to amend the constitution to define marriage as between a man on the woman. because he is in jeopardy and everybody is pulling for him, are we required in a moral sense to put that aside at the moment? >> tucker: so when joy reid accuses you of harboring racist thoughts, trust me, it's projection. it's also a political tactic. reid can't explain why this country is so badly needs to import millions of additional poor people. nobody on the left can explain that because there's no real answer, so they attempt to short-circuit the conversation with slayers. that's a shame. immigration matters. it determines who lives in this

country, who chooses our government, who shapes our future. it's hard to think of a public-policy topic more central to everything. we tried our best to discuss immigration reasonably and with civility. most of the time we succeed, not all, but we try. we try to make a rational case with what we think ought to be done. we like immigration policies that favor the american middle class over foreign countries, corporate elites and lobbyists. we think that laws passed by our congress ought to be respected and enforced, not marked and ignored by our own leaders. we believe that america is an actual place, not just in abstract idea, a distinct country -- change when it comes ought to be thoughtful and incremental. we owe that to the people who already live here, people of all colors and backgrounds. we are suspicious of efforts to remake our society wholesale, especially just so a small group can feel virtuous or have cheaper nannies. any change is hard. if demographic change especially

as hard. let's stop lying about that. it always hurts the week and economically vulnerable first. someone ought to be thinking about their interests too. those are our views. they are not extreme and we know that because we have seen the polling on the subject. a huge number of americans agree with what we just said. if you don't believe it, look up the views of african-american voters on illegal immigration. they are not what joy reid, to put it mildly. they know what the cost has been. those who disagree with any of us are always welcome here. this is the only show on television that books guests every night will have a different view. we look hard for the smartest and most articulate people we can find. you can listen to both sides on their show and you can make up your own mind. the organized left hates that. they no longer believe in debate. they believe in power, accumulating it, and most of all, in wielding it. anyone who gets in their way gets shouted down, in this case as a racist. that doesn't work anymore. what was once a devastating attack on a person's character is now just background noise.

when everything is racist from ice cream trucks to dr. seuss, nothing is. the term has been devalued by reckless overuse, and that's a shame because it still applies. there's still plenty of racism in america, maybe more now possibly than in generations. americans are attacked openly for the race every day in print come on television, at public gatherings. people are punished for their race in hiring, college admissions, government and private contracting. the left supports all of this. it is central to their worldview. it is key to their political strategy, but is totally wrong and we plan to keep saying that. we still believe in what used to be the central premise of american liberalism. people ought to be judged on what they do, not on how they look or who their parents were or what their ancestors did. if we don't believe in collective punishment or reward. we believe in the individual, and because we do, we think our immigration policy ought to be driven by what each individual can add to america. nobody has the right to be admitted by lottery, or because they happen to be related to someone who is already here or because they snuck in and it's

too politically difficult to make them leave. that's what we think. disagree with it? you are always welcome on the show. mark steyn is an author and columnist in the subject of many attacks on mine since his last appearance on the show, including a take on joy reads show over the weekend so we thought we would invite him back and asking for a response. how are you doing, mark? >> i'm doing great. fascinated to hear about your great grandfather from switzerland in 1860. it's interesting to me -- one of the things i like about you, tucker, one of the few things is that when you discuss immigration, you don't go on about your great-grandfather and it's interesting to me that because most people say people attack immigration, my great-grandmother got off the boat at ellis island in 1979 and six weeks later she was the third orphan on the right and the broadway production of na singing the sun will come out tomorrow and that the american

dream right there. they either do that, they either do that, or they say well, you know, i've got a venezuelan pool boy and he is the hardest working chap i know, so what's the problem with immigration? and in fact you were the only one, because you are one of the few people who doesn't discuss it in terms of your great-grandfather, msnbc has hired somebody to find out who your great-grandfather is and hang him around your neck. as you pointed out, this is completely preposterous. there were lots of things we needed in 1860. your great-grandfather, buggy whips, the transcontinental railroad, oxen and oddly enough, a hundred and 60 years later we need less of all those things, apparently accept immigration. this is absurd. >> tucker: what is so interesting is how there's no real response other than to the personal. i know the temptation when you get upset about something to try and hang it on a personal hang

ups or his personality or background or whatever, but you try to pull back and ask what principles are at stake here and ask obvious questions like how does this help the americans already here? i cannot get -- are not just saying this. every night, i cannot get a real answer for that from anybody, ever. not one. >> it is this resistance in public policy. had something similar after i was on your show last week. there's all these people who are suddenly going online and pointing out that i'm canadian. it was the first i'd heard of it. i was stunned. who knew? the msnbc genealogist had been in touch with the vital statistics and -- i was stunned. the fact is, it's public policy. i go to rosen guard in sweden and what i see there i think is a tragedy for the swedes who will be an ethnic minority in their own country by midcentury. i go to mullen beak and my mother's country of belgium and

i think that's a tragedy. actually just to save the msnbc house genealogist a bit of time, i happen to be an irish canadian, one of the smaller parade down main street every year. in the scheme of things, there is very little difference between irish catholics and irish protestants. that has caused tragic bloodshed in our lifetime. there is very little difference in the scheme of things between francophone quebec, a half-hour north of me here in new england and anglican canadians. 20 years ago in the 1990s, a majority of francophone quebec voted that they didn't want to be part of the same country as canadians. putting aside race, small group differences can have huge consequences, and that's why i come back to a point i make a lot on your show, that when you're talking about public

policy, it's best to err on the side of prudence, and the democrats all the time are about -- as we've just established with joy read, it's not that you can't talk about the subject, it's just that as joy sees it, only certain people can talk about it. if she can say the democrats should give up on white rural voters and just focus on black voters. democrat can say on election night 2012 that this is about the browning of america. bob on election night, another democrat, can talk about the white vote. what joy and cowas saying, they can talk about it incessantly, but just that nobody else can. >> tucker: i would rather not play by those rules, and neither can you. >> it's not in good faith, which is what your show, in fairness, it is. >> tucker: thanks, i appreciate that. good to see you.

nationally, democrats call anyone who disagrees with their immigration views a bigot. in california they gone way beyond that. california attorney general javier becerra is turning them to prosecution if they violate that law. peter is a lawyer on the u.s. commission on civil rights and has spent a lot of time thinking about the question of immigration. they both join us tonight. thanks a lot for coming on, both of you. mr. allen, do you first, are we overstating it or does it seem like one of those moments where the unit begins to fall apart when you're attorney general says he will prosecute californians for obeying federal law? that seems a big deal to me. >> this is a very big deal. this goes far beyond legislators trying to make california a sanctuary state. now you are looking at the attorney general literally, criminally, criminally trying to obstruct justice. he is instructing california business owners that if you try to comply with federal

immigration law, you will be prosecuted under state law. he has crossed the line. at this is now a criminal offense. department of justice needs to come, sessions and trumpet need to come to california, literally arrest, indict xavier becerra for breaking federal law. >> tucker: seems like maybe a bigger deal than a lot of other things we're worried about in washington. you've got to kind of wonder who is being served by these policies? harvard has kind of an amazing new study out on attitudes towards immigration and it shows that african-american voters are among the most conservative on this. 85% of black voters polled by harbert said you should not be allowed to come to the united states and less you are bringing skills or money with you. that's considered a fringe view in washington. why is this not better known, these views? >> it's not better known because there's a political imperative that this kind of information has not gotten out there. if you take a look at all the studies that show who is affected most in the most adverse way by illegal immigration, without question and by far its black americans,

particularly black males. 40%, 18-point decline in black appointment levels is due to illegal immigration. if you do the math, we are talking of over a million people who don't have jobs because illegal immigration and the competition that comes from that. it goes beyond simply the economic aspect of this, which is devastating. we are talking about family formation issues, incarceration issues. to take california for example, it's very difficult to get this kind of data because public officials guard this data more tenaciously than nuclear launch codes, but trying to get crime data out on the illegal immigrants. we spent a copious amount timed laboriously getting this information. there's at least two how thousand 430 illegal aliens due to murder. a study showing illegal aliens especially daca-aged illegal aliens are 245% more likely to commit all manner of crimes than lawful residents. that kind of statistics we have looked at, my assistant and i

become a special counsel have looked at this kind of information and have seen that on average we are talking about the states where we can find this data, meaning the bigger states like new york, florida, texas, arizona and california. we are looking at at least 60% more likely if you are illegal immigrant to have committed a crime of any nature, but many of those crimes are the most horrific nature, then our lawful residence. horrific implications upon those vulnerable communities, one of those communities as the black community. >> tucker: you would think we would have a debate about it. travis, are these figures discussed at all in the state of california by your media there? >> unfortunately they are not. they are entirely overlooked and everyone is trying to make this about immigration. what we are really talking about is illegal immigration and in california without the sanctuary state. this is not even people that have come here illegally. this is people who have come here illegally and then commit crimes while they are here and then they are being paid for and

defended with taxpayer dollars. now on top of this, really, as if that wasn't enough, now xavier becerra has threatened every california business owner, again, if you try to comply with federal law, if you comply with federal authorities doing their constitutional duties, he is going to prosecute you under california law. we are talking criminal prosecution, find $10,000 or potentially even more and this is how far it's gonna california. >> tucker: its grotesque if you obey your own country's law. that's unbelievable. thank you both. i appreciate it. over the weekend's under graham announced the white house advisor stephen miller is an extremist on immigration. it is miller's fault he says that so senate can't work out a deal on daca. he is in the u.s. senate and stephen miller is not. graham didn't explain how miller was wrong. he just said he was extreme and should therefore shut up. we spoke to stephen miller and he's perfectly willing to come

on the show and debate senator graham directly life about their differences on immigration. that would be fascinating, we would all benefit from that but graham has refused. why? the truth is that lindsey graham is the one with an extreme position on immigration. nothing personal, but the numbers show it. the new harvard harris poll last week showed that 81% of americans one immigration reduced below current levels. large majorities one skill-based immigration and an edge of the diversity lottery and a more secure border. the wrong side of the public on every one of those issues. he is literally an extremist. he still welcome on the show anytime to explain himself, that invitation stands, as it always has. the government shutdown number daca lasted fewer than three days. congress finally worked out a deal to fund the government for a couple more weeks. fox chief national correspondent ed henry has all the details on what just happened. >> we can report to key facts, not opinions. one, democrats caved. secondly, in exchange for that they got very little.

senate democratic leader chuck schumer today try to basically spin this and blame it on president trump in terms of the shutdown but there is a reason why the hashtag on social media today became the hashtag schumer surrendered. he himself voted to reopen the government after moderate democrats up for reelection this year abandoned him and broke with the left. that did not stop democrats like hillary clinton fund-raiser steve and one door from tweeting dems have pocketed a big win on funding chip and have a real process to pass the bill in three weeks. everyone should focus on making that successful. the problem is, the president and republican leaders had already given them funding. that's child health insurance, for six years last friday. schumer and many other democrats voted against that. that led to the shutdown. as for daca, democrats are basically going to get a vote in the senate in the next few weeks, but there's no guarantee that the version that passes the house is going to get through conservatives in the house.

they got very little. >> tucker: interesting. not expected. thanks very much for that. new released text messages indicate that top fbi officials knew that hillary clinton would be exonerated before she was even interviewed. that looks a lot like corruption. details next. ♪

♪ >> tucker: the fbi's handling of the hillary clinton email investigation is increasingly looking corrupt.

that's what the evidence is showing. newly released text messages sent between peter strzok, and lisa page, where dating one another, suggest the bureau felt "pressure" to wrap up that investigation and exonerate her even before they had interviewed her. we could learn more but the fbi says it has lost thousands of messages, text messages, sent between strzok and page. ron johnson represents wisconsin, one of the reasons we know any of this in the first place and he joins us tonight. thanks for coming on. you remember, of course from the attorney general loretta lynch said she would accept whatever the fbi's recommendation was in the hillary clinton investigation. now it looks from these texts that she had already decided to exonerate hillary clinton. >> she already knew that comey was going to recommend exoneration. >> that strikes me is the definition of corruption, am i missing something? >> not at all. what's making a lot of news is the five months of mixing text messages which we will continue to investigate ourselves.

the fact that loretta lynch knew before she made the big announcement that because of potential conflicts of interest, meaning bill clinton, i will let james comey decide that. combined with all the editing of that memo, the production of that thing began two months before they actually interviewed secretary clinton, that's a little bit of a problem. there are so many things that indicate a deep-seated corruption at the highest levels of the fbi. i've got to say that the vast majority of the fbi folks are high integrity and they are risking their lives to keep us safe, but at the upper level what we are starting to uncover is just a level of corruption that needs further investigation. >> tucker: lisa page, fbi employee says loretta lynch knows no charges will be brought against hillary clinton. it wouldn't be worth speaking to former agent page, i believe she still works there. >> we are going to try and recover those five months worth of email, or texts because

that's a pretty crucial time between december of 2016 and may. a lot was going down in terms of the fbi investigation under the current administration. >> tucker: they are just lost somehow. they are blaming the technology company. how often our peoples' tax liens just lost? they don't just sort of lose the paperwork for that. somehow they lost this. >> if we lose them we are in big trouble. we better get a good tax attorney or a good attorney in some way, shape, or form. they are not very forgiving if we lose evidence. when they lose, a little technology below. don't worry about it. we are going to worry about it, we will keep digging. >> tucker: the idea is that they had these texts in their possession and they lost them somehow. >> they were supposed to be preserved. they are saying they didn't preserve them. the good news is, these technology texts go up to some server, some cloud. they are probably stored somewhere, which is why we will probably be releasing, or certainly looking at preservation record letters to

some of these technology companies. >> tucker: would it be possible to subpoena the cell phones on which they were written? >> probably don't want to do that yet. we will just make sure they preserve the evidence and then we will ask for the information. hopefully won't have to subpoena. >> tucker: hopefully you won't won't. has the former attorney general lynch responded to this in any way? >> she has not responded. interesting to see what she has to say, interesting to see what director comey has to say as well. he testified at someone variance to what these texts reveal as well. >> tucker: amazing. thank you very much for this. >> have a good night. >> tucker: depressing story. the second annual women's march took place over the weekend. supposed to promote women's rights, it degenerated into racial attacks on camera. that story is next. ♪ hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that.

don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. of dry eye.of us suffer from the gritty and frustrating symptoms we need theratears®. theratears® is more than just eye drops. it's eye therapy. dry eye symptoms are caused by a salt imbalance. theratears® unique electrolyte formula, quickly restores the natural balance. so your eyes will thank you. more than eye drops, dry eye therapy. theratears®.

♪ cleaning floors with a mop and bucket is a hassle, meaning you probably don't clean as often as you'd like. for a quick and convenient clean, try swiffer wetjet. there's no heavy bucket, or mop to wring out, because the absorb and lock technology traps dirt and liquid inside the pad. it's safe to use on all finished surfaces tile, laminate and hardwood. and it prevents streaks and hazing better than a micro fiber strip mop, giving you a thorough clean the first time. for a convenient clean, try swiffer wetjet with a money back guarantee. brand power. helping you buy better.

>> tucker: the second annual women's march took place over the weekend, but already the event has turned into an opportunity for the left to push a racial and pretty radical agenda. repeatedly, progressive -- offered the march to denounce a whole group of women as a race. watch. >> white women, listen up. we've got to do better. we've got to do better. it is not up to women of color to save this country from itself. that's on all of us! >> so many of you in this audience have had a lifetime of activism. a lot of us, particularly us white women have a lot of catching up to do. hold other white folks

accountable! especially those who are closest to! >> tucker: rachel campos duffy's is a fox news contributor. what is that? i can't stand when people talk about that in public. that actually is the definition of divisive. if people didn't use to talk like that. what are they doing? >> i think for the leaders of this march, the march is not about women, it's about politics, it's about power. in the case of richards it's about money. the message to women is, we've got all these black and brown people voting the way we want, now you guys get in line too. strikes me as the opposite of a profeminist, pro-woman message. >> tucker: it definitely does. i'm trying to be open-minded. i certainly support the right of people who disagree politically to march on to say what they think. i'm not a liberal so i am actually for free speech. there is a kind of brittle tone to this but doesn't seem constructive, it seems just angry. what is that about?

>> it's interesting, the contrast. if you talk about the anger, the right to life march. i've been to both of these marches. in fact i covered the march for women in new york city for fox and friends this past weekend. the marchers were angrier than the marchers at right to life march. i would say, when i went into the crowd, i don't think the leadership is on the same page as the people in the crowd. the leadership have a very clear idea of what they want. the people in the crowd were sort of therefore lots of different reasons, mainly of course that they were very angry at trump. it was an antitrust march. but they had all these other issues that they were concerned about. interestingly i did ask many of the marchers what they thought about pro-life women and if pro-life women would be welcome at the march and unanimously every one of the marchers said yes, pro-life women would be welcomed at the march. which is completely out of line with where the leadership last year when they kicked out new wave feminist group, a group that was against trump but was

decidedly pro-life. they weren't allowed to participate and the reason is i think somebody like cecil richard from planned parenthood. they see their power waning because technology has really sort of made no one to question the humanity of the fetus. she is losing power and so she sort of go out onto this women's march, which is sort of anti-trump plus #metoo plus a bunch of other issues altogether. she's using the march to unite or sort of attach herself to a woman's march. what it does, if you disagree with them on abortion, for example, or even the resistance, you are not part of the sisterhood, you are against women, which is the tactic they've used with hispanics like me who are conservative. they say you don't agree with us, you are a coconut, you are brown and the outside but white on the inside. i've been getting a lot of uncle tom's or auntie tom's.

that's how they try and get you in line, they try and shame you. >> tucker: i think your analysis is really smart. i think you are exactly right. as they feel like they're losing control of the conversation, it's like regimes when they feel like they are losing control they become repressive. that's exactly i think what's going on. >> can i say one more thing? >> tucker: of course. >> you mentioned the regime, which is interesting. a lot of the marchers talked about donald trump as if he was this autocratic dictator and i talked about his administration as a regime. it struck me as quite funny because i feel like he spent the last year decentralizing government, decentralizing politics and given power back to the people, which strikes me is the opposite of what a dictator would do. it was very interesting. >> tucker: they don't even have their appointees in place! if anything, he is the opposite. the least organized group i've seen. >> exactly. but when i brought up to some of the women -- you see the full tape from fox and friends online if you pull it up. but when i asked them about the economy and how well women are doing in the trump economy,

unemployment among women is at an 18 year low. if so many minorities are doing so much better under this economy. they seemed utterly unintereste uninterested. some conceded it but almost all said it was obama's economy. >> tucker: of course, because the left doesn't care about that. >> messaging for the right and one last message, they are energized. the conservative movement, the republicans need to watch out. >> tucker: that's obvious. thank you for that. good to see you. assisted suicide is now legal in six states, also in d.c. but are they making dying easier or encouraging people to die earlier for the sake of cost-saving pneumatic talk about it with a supporter of these laws next. ♪ i go with anoro. ♪go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way" with anoro. ♪go your own way

once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators, that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma . it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems. these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. ask your doctor about anoro. ♪go your own way get your first prescription free at anoro.com.

i'm all about my bed. this mattress is dangerously comfortable. when i get in i literally say, ahh. america loves the leesa mattress. we have more five star customer reviews then any other mattress of it's kind. this bed hugs my body. today is gonna to be great. place your order and experience the leesa mattress at home risk free. order now and get $100 off and free shipping too. go to buyleesa.com today. if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed

and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. this condition has not been reported with entyvio. tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. liver problems can occur with entyvio. if your uc or crohn's treatment isn't working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. entyvio. relief and remission within reach.

♪ >> tucker: it increasingly, americans are being told that suicide is valid treatment for disease. six states, including

california, have legalized assisted suicide, more states considering it and of course many will pass it. patients can simply kill themselves rather than exceed expensive medical care. our economic pressures going to play a role in this? a talk show host, liberal, very smart. she's a sports assisted suicide, she just joins us tonight for a conversation about it. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me back to discuss another important topic. >> tucker: i think this is important. i don't want to make a case against assisted suicide. i'm personally opposed to it though i understand why people would be for it and i hesitate even to get involved. i just want to make an obvious point and i'm sure you've thought about this. why wouldn't there be an enormous economic pressure brought to bear on a system that spends a huge percentage of all expenditures on the last months of life pushing people to kill themselves? why wouldn't that happen? >> there are always going to be economic pressures in life, that's kind of the nature of life. but in terms of this idea of a

duty to die culture arising simply because of this law, i just don't think it could happen. there have to be a couple other factors that play, which i hope to get you. to me, the situation you are concerned about, the one in which somebody would feel that they have a duty to die may be because of pressure from unscrupulous family members who want to hang onto money or whatever it is, that sort of scenario is, to me like the scenario of the home school in california, this horrific, disgusting abuse and so-called home school. i would know more take a case like that as a reason to curtail the right to school your children at home then i would to deny the availability of humane treatment at end-of-life to human beings. the same we give to our animals. >> tucker: okay. why wouldn't health insurers see what is obvious.

they have a massive incentive -- i'm not saying they're doing this now but i believe they will, why wouldn't they, to encourage people to get off of their insurance, stop costing all this money if you have copd or you have some advanced cancer. it costs them a ton of money to keep them alive, why wouldn't they exert pressure on you to kill yourself and save them untold millions? that's going to happen. >> first of all, you have to have safeguards in any law like this. you're going to have to make sure that the person making the decision voluntarily, it's not due to pressure from other people, it's not due to depression, where it's just depression talking, or -- you also have to check and make sure they have a real reason that they would want to die, that a rational person would say given the suffering that i have before me, that's all i have, that i would want to do this. let me tell you what i think is at play in terms of potentially creating a duty to die culture. think there's two things.

one of them is the way that medicine is going right now. we have a large segment of our market is socialized already, socialized medicine and i know you don't like socialized medicine. and in addition to that there are other incentives that are created because of government interference in the medical industry. it makes medicine more expensiv expensive. it makes the economic pressures more likely. the second thing is the thing that has, i think, given rise to socialized medicine, the place where you and i probably disagree, the altar west ethics in our culture. in our culture it is almost universally upheld to be moral to sacrifice your interests to the interests of other people, to act out of duty. >> tucker: exactly. >> if you see that you are going to be able to do your duty and sacrifice or, say, your family members and cost less money or

cost less money for society at large because of socialized medicine or whatever by choosing to die earlier, then you might feel pressured into it, but the answer then is to reject socialized medicine and to reject the altruist morality. >> tucker: you come on, we are supposed to debate and you make my case more crisply and in a more compelling way than i managed to. i think we are just going to clip the last minute and a half of you talking and i should scare the crap who was for assisted suicide. you are right, we are not changing medicine and we are not changing human nature. >> i think we are going to change those and the answer to the fact that those controls are creating perverse incentives is not to take freedom away from people. freedom is messy, but i don't think we should have a duty to die and we shouldn't have a duty to live, particularly if living constitute suffering. >> tucker: people kill themselves, many do and sadly increasing numbers. the question is you want the system to play a role in that.

you want doctors and health insurers to be standing on the sidelines nodding you want is you do it? >> no rational doctor would want to help a patient and his or her life and less those safeguards that i talked about were there. >> tucker: we are out of time. that was interesting as always. come back, thank you. >> thanks very much. >> tucker: someone just called for mike to be booted off television for political views, we will ask him next. ♪ patrick woke up with a sore back. but he's got work to do. so he took aleve this morning. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill.

tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. and for pain relief and a good night's rest, try aleve pm for a better am. when it comes to travel, i sweat the details. late checkout... ...down-alternative pillows... ...and of course, price. tripadvisor helps you book a... ...hotel without breaking a sweat. because we now instantly... ...search over 200 booking sites ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. don't sweat your booking. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.

♪ >> tucker: spent his life championing ordinary people and not everyone is everyone is appreciated. narrating the new season of the discovery channel how the universe works. one viewer says he's not fit for the job. why? on facebook that you were argue

that he is "antieducation, science-doubting, ultra right wing conservative" and ought to be replaced by either a scientist or, maybe better, and actor. what's his response to that? he joins us in studio with that response. mike, antiscience. >> if only we could get an actor. >> tucker: someone with authority. someone who returns for a living. who is this person, by the way? >> i think her name was rebecca and i think she was one of the legions of facebook verse who just kind of cruise around and n ax to grind. you know how it works, anybody can say anything to anybody nowadays. i generally welcome criticism. in fact, i kind of created. but this woman actually really got my attention because she copied everybody, tagged everybody, including my bosses at the production company, my bosses at the network and so she essentially said that because she had an opinion of what my

opinions might be on certain things, those opinions of her opinion regarding my opinion it might not necessarily be completely congruent with the opinions of scientists that may or may not weigh in on very specific topics regarding the workings of the universe. i'm the narrator of the show. i don't improvise, i walk in, i sit down and i talk and a crisp, well modulated baritone and tell you about super know and quasars, things like that. i mind my own business, i sip my tea and a climate controlled booth and i don't -- >> tucker: you are not taking any liberties with the script? >> the opposite of that. i take all the pain then, new ones, and anything that could be remotely concerned with the real attitude out of my voice and just read somebody else's -- >> tucker: that's why the story was so interesting and revealing. i've watched it carefully for more than 15 years, probably. >> that's not weird at all. >> tucker: i'm good at sniffing it out.

i've never detected a political statement of any kind from you at all. you play straighter than anyone i've ever seen. >> thanks. >> tucker: that itself is no political statement it seems like. >> that's what's fascinating about it. it's not what you say, it's what you don't. i'm not sure how we measure or quantify it, but we do and there's a mysterious algorithm floating around social media that for a long time, if you said the wrong thing, you heard about it quickly. now if you don't say the right thing you hear about it instantaneously. it makes the conversation about the whole topic nothing short of fascinating. in fact, i thought of you when i was responding to her, which i did in about 1200 words. i was on a plane, trapped, and had some time on my hands. i share your view about social media. i think there's a lot to be concerned about with regard to the way it's used. and i think -- i think one day i will be back you're talking to

you about the parallels between the second amendment and the first amendment vis-a-vis social media and gun control. what i mean to say is it's a tool. how you use social media today is a major conversation point and how this woman used it and how i responded to it and what i try to use it for what the show i'm working on and how other people choose to use it. i think it's going to be the issue of our times. >> tucker: you don't care, for whatever reason, to share your political beliefs, assuming you even have any, i don't know that you do. >> i do. >> tucker: you don't share them. you are rigorous about not sharing them. how long can you keep that up? >> i think indefinitely, but there's a difference between hiding and not sharing. i've never dodged a direct question on facebook or anywhere. the difference is if you are going to argue, i run a

nonprofit foundation. micro works is in its tenth year. as you know we raise money for work ethics scholarships and if you want to be taken even remotely seriously, not just as a narrator for a show you didn't write but as the ceo of a foundation with their name in it, you can have an opinion, but if you're going to argue, you argue from the middle. you look at the facts as best you can, you ask for evidence, which is the first thing i did with rebecca. her accusations were very clear, but for a pro-science person her case was conspicuously void of what you might call proof. you can have a good time and challenge people in a grown-up way to at least, at least create the illusion of persuasiveness. but if you can't do that then you probably ought not own an opinion. >> tucker: i'm never going to ask your political opinions because i love the fact that you stand as an island in a world full of people who can't wait to share theirs. >> an island in a storm. >> tucker: you are a respite from a squall. mike rowe, great to see he was always.

>> thanks for having me. >> tucker: thank you. it's. cnn just made a pretty amazing admission about its coverage of the russia story. we will show it to you next. ♪ hassle, and yup, money. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved hundreds. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. like you do sometimes, grandpa? and puffed... well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe. it can be hard to get air out, which can make it hard to get air in. so i talked to my doctor. she said... symbicort could help you breathe better, starting within 5 minutes. symbicort doesn't replace a rescue inhaler

for sudden symptoms. symbicort helps provide significant improvement of your lung function. symbicort is for copd, including chronic bronchitis and emphysema. it should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol increase the risk of death from asthma problems. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. you should tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. symbicort could mean a day with better breathing. watch out, piggies! get symbicort free for up to one year. visit saveonsymbicort.com today to learn more. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. dynamic performance, so you can aggressive styling, so you can break away from everyone else. the bold lexus is. experience amazing.

i d...changed everything... you switched to the capital one quicksilver card. and how do you feel? [sighs] like a burden's been lifted. those other cards made you sign up for bonus cash back. then they change categories on you every few months. then you had to keep signing up! you...deserve...better. now get out there and keep earning that 1.5% cash back on every purchase everywhere.

thanks, doc. i'm not a doctor. what? [whispers] time to go. what's in your wallet? >> tucker: some news, the president has just signed legislation keeping the government open for another two weeks. the question is, will cnn notice. they spent the >> about russia and that's all we talk about at cnn, basically. they don't care, people say, it doesn't affect their lives. what at that point that becomes an election issue does it cast a cloud over trump and affect the house races. i don't think we see it quite yet and it will be interesting

to watch. >> a dangerously honest person working at cnn. is she in trouble? good for her. that's it for us. good night from washington. sean hannity is next. >> thank you, tucker. this is the biggest show we have had this year. tons of breaking news tonight. breaking now. the attorney general, jeff session revealing over 50,000. we thought 10. text messageses between peter strzok and his fbi lawyer mistress lisa page. also tonights the fix is in. we have been right all along. the fbi saying they lost five key months of text messages between the two lovers strzok and page this. is a conspiracy to obstruct justice. i'm not buying it. part of the problem it's a troubling pattern. what do we see over and over again?