interview the top palestinian negotiator, saeb erekat. it's fiery, you don't want to miss it. thanks to everyone in jerusalem who has made this possible. most-watched, most trusted, most grateful you have spent the evening with us. fromne jerusalem, i am shannon bream. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." today was a big win, or seemed to be, for republicans in the congress.tu democrats caved to their demands, the government is back open. details on that in just a minute. new text messages tonight from the fbi with stunning revelations about the hillary clinton revelation. even if you think you know a lot about it, stay tuned. pretty remarkable. but first, for more than a year, on this show, we have discussed our country's immigration policies. pretty much every night, we have asked supporters of open borders how can you justify this? do american citizens benefit from these policies or not? we still don't know. a finally from msnbc comes an answer.

on her weekend show this saturday, anchor joy read interviewed a genealogist who had done historical research on my family. apparently one of my ancestors came to this country in 1860 a from switzerland. i didn't even know that until the show aired because i havedi zero interest in the subject. that was more than 150 years ago. it is irrelevant to the decisions that i make as a father or as a citizen or an employee of fox news. it tells us precisely nothing about our modern immigration policy. america's economy has changed quite a bit since the civil warm according to msnbc, this fact is a conversation ender. a single 19th century swiss relative means you are now required to support green cards for everyone who jumps the borders or overstays a visa in 2018.. boom, case closed! as the guests just put it, people in genealogical glass houses shouldn't throw stones. meaning me. as is so often the case, it's hard to know exactly whether

this was meant as a legitimate point of debate or whether it was part of an elaborate parody, monty python does daca. there's absolutely no doubt about the sincerity of what came next. here's joy reid's response. she wasn't joking at all. watch. >> tucker has been one of the most aggressive at putting forward what a lot of peoplene have seen is a pretty blatantly why should nationalist view of what immigration should be like. >> tucker: joy reid is accusing us of racism. let's pause for a moment and savor the irony of that. reid's entire public career has been built on the race baiting. try to watch her show for 20 minutes and see for yourself. this is the woman who urged the democratic party to give up on white voters who voted for obama and then trump, saying their votes weren't worth fighting for. that was last august. in october she suggested that f white house chief of staff john kelly was somehow a bigot because he grew up around irish catholics.

after house majority whip steve scalise was shot and nearly killed by a progressive activist last summer, reid openly wondered if we shouldhi hope for his recovery. watch. >> it's a delicate thing because obviously everyone is wishing the congressman well and hoping that he recovered, but steve scalise has a history that we've all been forced to sort of ignore on race. he did come to leadership after some controversy over attending a white nationalist event, which he says he didn't know what it was. he also cosponsored a bill to amend the constitution to defina marriage as between a man on the woman. because he is in jeopardy and everybody is pulling for him, are we required in a moral sense to put that aside at the moment? >> tucker: so when joy reidt accuses you of harboring racist thoughts, trust me, it's projection. it's also a political tactic. reid can't explain why this country so badly needs to import millions of additional poor people. nobody on the left can explain t that because there's no real answer, so they attempt to short-circuit the conversation with slurs. that's a shame. immigration matters. it determines who lives in this country, who chooses our government, who shapes our future.

it's hard to think of a public-policy topic more central to everything. we tried our best to discuss immigration reasonably and with civility. most of the time we succeed, not all, but we try. we try to make a rational case with what we think ought to be done. we like immigration policies that favor the american middle class over foreign countries, corporate elites, and lobbyistsi we think that laws passed by our congress ought to be respectedri and enforced, not marked and ignored by our own leaders. we believe that america iske an actual place, not just an abstract idea, a distinct country -- change when it comes ought to be thoughtful and incremental. we owe that to the people who already live here, people of all colors and backgrounds. we are suspicious of efforts to remake our society wholesale, especially just so a small group can feel virtuous or have cheaper nannies. any change is hard. demographic change especiallyav is hard. let's stop lying about that.

it always hurts the weak and economically vulnerable first. someone ought to be thinking about their interests, too. those are our views. o they are not extreme and we know that because we have seen theer polling on the subject. a huge number of americans agree with what we just said. if you don't believe it, look up the views of african-american voters on illegal immigration. they are not with joy reid, to put it mildly. they know what the cost has been. those who disagree with any of this are always welcome here. this is the only show on television that books guests every night who have a different view.ig we look hard for the smartest and most articulate people we can find. you can listen to both sides on this show and you can make up your own mind. the organized left hates that. they no longer believe in debate. they believe in power,ey accumulating it, and most of all, in wielding it. anyone who gets in their way gets shouted down, in this case as a racist. w that doesn't work anymore. what was once a devastating attack on a person's character is now just background noise. when everything is racist from ice cream trucks to dr. seuss, nothing is.ro

the term has beenic devalued by reckless overuse, and that's a shame because it still applies. there's still plenty of racismse in america, maybe more now possibly than in generations. americans are attacked openly for the race every day in print television, at public gatherings. people are punished for their race in hiring, college admissions, government and private contracting. the left supports all of this. it is central to their worldview. it is key to their political strategy, but is totally wrong and we plan to keep saying that. we still believe in what used to be the central premise of american liberalism. people ought to be judged w on what they do, not on how they look or who their parents were or what their ancestors did. we don't believe in collective punishment or reward. we believe in the individual, and because we do, we think our immigration policy ought to be driven by what each individual can add to america. nobody has the right to be admitted by lottery, or because they happen to be related to someone who is already here or because they snuck in and it's too politically difficult to make them leave.or that's what we think. disagree with it?

you are always welcome on the show. mark steyn is an author and columnist in the subject of many attacks on mine since his last appearance on the show, including a take on joy reid's show over the weekend so we thought we would invite him back and asking for a response. how are you doing, mark? >> hey, i'm doing great, tucker. fascinated to hear about your great grandfather from switzerland in 1860. >> tucker: who cares? >> one of the things i like about you, tucker, one of the few things, is that when you discuss immigration, you don't go on about your great-grandfather and it's interesting to me that because most people say people attack immigration, my great-grandmother got off the boat at ellis island in 1979 and six weeks later she was the third orphan on the right in

"annie" singing "the sun will come out tomorrow "and that the american dream right there. they either do that, they either do that, or they say well, youoo know, i've got a venezuelan pool boy and he is the hardest working chap i know, so what's the problem with immigration? and in fact you are the only one, because you are one of the few people who doesn't discuss it in terms of your great-grandfather, msnbc hasas hired somebody to find out who your great-grandfather is and hang him around your neck. as you pointed out, this is completely preposterous. there were lots of things we needed in 1860. your great-grandfather, buggy whips, the transcontinental railroad, oxen, and oddly enough, a hundred and 60 years later, we need less of all those things, apparently except immigration. this is absurd. >> tucker: what is so interesting is how there's no real response other than to the personal. i know the temptation when you get upset about something to try and hang it on a personal hang

ups or his personality or background or whatever, but youn try to pull back and ask what principles are at stake here and ask obvious questions, like how does this help the americans already here? i cannot get -- i'm not just saying this. every night, i cannot get a real answer for that from anybody, ever. not one. >> it is this resistance in public policy. i heard something similar after i was on your show last week. there's all these people who are suddenly going online and pointing out that i'm canadian. it was the first i'd heard of it.t i was stunned. who knew? the msnbc genealogist had been in touch with the vital statistics and -- i was stunned. the fact is, it's public policy. i go to rosengard in sweden and what i see there i think is a tragedy for the swedes, who will be an ethnic minority in their own country by midcentury. i go to mollenbeek in my mother's country of belgium and i think that's a tragedy.

actually just to save the msnbc house genealogist a bit of time, i happen to be an irish canadian, one of the smaller parades down main street every year. in the scheme of things, there is very little difference between irish catholics and irish protestants. yet, that has caused tragic bloodshed in our lifetime. there is very little differenceb in the scheme of things between francophone quebec, a half-hour north of me here in new england, and anglican canadians. 20 years ago in the 1990s, a majority of francophone quebec voted that they didn't want to be part of the same country as canadians. putting aside race, small group differences can have huge consequences, and that's why i come back to a point i make a lot on your show, that when you're talking about publicac policy, it's best to err on the side of prudence, and the

democrats all the time are about -- as we've just established with joy reid, it's not that you can't talk about the subject, it's just that as joy sees it, only certain people can talk about it. so she can say the democrats should give up on white rural voters and just focus on black voters. democrats can say on election night 2012 that this is about the browning of america. bob beckel on election night, another democrat, can talk about the white vote. what joy and co are saying, they can talk about it incessantly, but just that nobody else can. >> tucker: i would rather not play by those rules, and neither can you. which is why we love you. mark steyn, thank you. >> it's not in good faith, which is what your show, in fairness, it is. >> tucker: thanks, i appreciate that. good to see you. nationally, democrats call anyone who disagrees with their

immigration views a bigot. in california they've gone way beyond that. california attorney general xavier becerra is threatening employers with prosecution if they violate that law. peter is a lawyer on the u.s. commission on civil rights and has spent a lot of time thinking about the question of immigration.is they both join us tonight. thanks a lot for coming on, both of you. mr. allen, to you first, are we overstating it or does it seem like one of those moments where the union begins to fall apart when your attorney general says he will prosecute californians for obeying federal law? that seems a big deal to me. >> this is a very big deal. this goes far beyond legislators trying to make california a sanctuary state. now you are looking at the attorney general literally, criminally, criminally trying to obstruct justice. he is instructing california business owners that if you try to comply with federal immigration law, you will be prosecuted under state law.

he has crossed the line. this is now a criminal offense. department of justice needs to come, sessions and trump need to come to california, literally arrest, indict xavier becerra for breaking federal law. >> tucker: seems like maybe a bigger deal than a lot of otherr things we're worried about in washington. you've got to kind of wonder who is being served by these policies? harvard has kind of an amazing new study out on attitudes towards immigration and it shows that african-american voters are among the most conservative on this. 85% of black voters polled by harvard said you should not be allowed to come to the united states unless you are bringing skills or money with you. that's considered a fringe view in washington. why is this not better known, these views? >> it's not better known because there's a political imperative in making sure that this kind of information has not gotten out there. if you take a look at all the studies that show who is affected most in the most adverse way by illegal immigration, without question and by far, it's black

americans, particularly black males. 40% of the 18-point decline in black unemployment levels is due to illegal immigration. if you do the math, we are talking of over a million people who don't have jobs because illegal immigration and the competition that comes fromrara that. it goes beyond simply the economic aspect of this, which is devastating. we are talking about family formation issues, incarcerationv issues. to take california for example, it's very difficult to get this kind of data because public officials guard this data more tenaciously than nuclear launch codes, but trying to get crime data out on the illegal immigrants. we've done it. we spent a copious amount timed laboriously getting this information. there's at least two howio thousand 430 illegal aliens in prison due to murder. a study showing illegal aliens especially daca-aged illegal aliens are 245% more likely to commit all manner of crimes than lawful residents. that kind of statistics we c hae

looked at, my assistant and i, special counselee have looked at this kind of information and have seen that on average we are talking about the states where we can find this data, mainly the bigger states like new york, florida, f texas, arizona, and california. we are looking at at least 60% more likely if you are illegal immigrant to have committed a crime of any nature, but many of those crimes are the most horrific nature, than our lawful residents. this visits horrific implications upon thoseup vulnerable communities, one of those communities is the black community. >> tucker: you would think we would have a debate about it. travis, are these figures discussed at all in the state of california by your media there? >> unfortunately they are not. they are entirely overlooked and everyone is trying to make this about immigration. what we are really talking about is illegal immigration and in california, we've got the sanctuary state. this is not even people that have come here legally. this is people who have come here illegally and then commit crimes while they are here andy then they are being paid for and defended with taxpayer dollars.

now on top of this, really, as if that wasn't enough, now xavier becerra is threatening every california business owner, again, if you try to comply with federal law, if you comply with federal authorities doing their constitutional duties, he ish going to prosecute you under california law. we are talking criminal prosecution, fined $10,000 or potentially even more, and this is how far it's gonna california. >> tucker: its grotesque if you obey your own country's law. that's unbelievable. thank you both.r: i appreciate it. over the weekend senator lindsey graham announced the white house advisor stephen miller is an extremist on immigration. it is miller's fault he says that so senate can't work out a deal on daca. he is in the u.s. senate and stephen miller is not. graham didn't explain how miller was wrong. he just said he was extreme and should therefore shut up. we spoke to stephen miller and he's perfectly willing to come on this show and debate

senator graham directly live about their differences on immigration. that would be fascinating, we would all benefit from that, but graham has refused. why? the truth is that lindsey graham is the one with an extreme position on immigration. nothing personal, but t the numbers show it. the new harvard harris poll last week showed that 81% of americans want immigrationt reduced below current levels. large majorities want skill-based immigration and an end to the diversity lottery and a more secure border. the wrong side of the public on every one of those issues. he is literally an extremist. he is still welcome on the show anytime to explain himself, that invitation stands, as it always has. the government shutdown over daca lasted fewer than three days. congress finally worked out a deal to fund the government for a couple more weeks. fox chief national correspondent ed henry has all the details on what just happened. ed? >> tucker, we can report two key facts, not opinions. one, democrats caved., secondly, in exchange for that they got very little. senate democratic leadersi

chuck schumer today tried to basically spin this and blame it on president trump in terms of the shutdown but there is a reason why the hashtag on social media today became the hashtag schumer surrendered. he himself voted to reopen the government after moderate democrats up for reelection this year abandoned schumer and broke with the left. that did not stop democrats like hillary clinton fund-raiser steve ellendorf from tweeting "dems have pocketed a big win on funding chip and have a real process to pass the bill in three weeks. everyone should focus on makingg that successful." the problem is, the president and republican leaders had already given them chip funding. that's child health insurance, for six years last friday. schumer and many other democrats voted against that. that led to the shutdown. as for daca, democrats are basically going to get a vote in the senate in the next few weeks, but there's no guarantee that the version that passes the house is going to get through conservatives in the house. they got very little. >> tucker: interesting. not expected.

thanks very much for that. new released text messages indicate that top fbi officials knew that hillary clinton would be exonerated before she was even interviewed. that looks a lot like corruption. details next. ♪ ♪

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sent between peter strzok and lisa page who were dating one another, suggest the bureau felt "pressure" to wrap up that investigation and exonerate her even before they had interviewed her.r. we could learn more but the fbi says it has lost thousands of messages, text messages, sent between strzok and page. ron johnson represents wisconsin, one of the reasons we know any of this in the first place and he joins us tonight. thanks for coming on. you remember, of course, when the attorney general loretta lynch said she would accept whatever the fbi's recommendation was in the hillary clinton investigation. now it looks from these texts that she had already decided to exonerate hillary clinton. >> she already knew that comey was going to recommend exoneration.ex >> that strikes me is thewa definition of corruption, am i missing something? >> not at all. what's making a lot of news is the five months of mixing text messages which we will continue to investigate ourselves. the fact that loretta lynch knew before she made the big

announcement that because of potential conflicts of interest, meeting bill clinton, i will let james comey decide that. combined with all the editing of that memo, the production of that thing began two months before they actually interviewed secretary clinton, that's a little bit of a problem. there are so many things that indicate a deep-seated corruption at the highest levels of the fbi. i've got to say that the vast majority of the fbi folks are high integrity and they are risking their lives to keep us safe, but at the upper level what we are starting to uncover is just a level of corruption that needs further investigation.el >> tucker: lisa page, fbi employee says loretta lynch knows no charges will be brought against hillary clinton. it wouldn't be worth speaking to former agent page, i believe she still works there. >> we are going to try and recover those five months worth of email, or texts, because that's a pretty crucial time between december of 2016 and

may.tt a lot was going down in terms of the fbi investigation under the current administration. >> tucker: they are just lost somehow. they are blaming the technology company.y. how often are peoples' tax liens just lost? >> like texts? >> tucker: no, they just don't lose the paperwork for that. somehow they lost this. >> if we lose them we are in big trouble. we better get a good tax attorney or a good attorney in some way, shape, or form. they are not very forgiving if we lose evidence.th when they lose it, a little technology blip. don't worry about it. we are going to worry about it, we will keep digging. >> tucker: the idea is that they had these texts in theirt, possession and they lost them somehow. >> they were supposed to behe preserved. they are saying they didn't preserve them. the good news is, in today's technology, texts go up to some server, some cloud. they are probably stored somewhere, which is why we will probably be releasing, or certainly looking at preservation record letters to some of these technology companies.or

>> tucker: would it be possible to subpoena the cell phones on which they were written? >> probably don't have to doro that yet. we will just make sure they y preserve the evidence and then we will ask for the information. hopefully won't have to subpoena. >> tucker: hopefully you won't. has the former attorney general lynch responded to this in any way? >> she has not responded. interesting to see what she has to say, interesting to see what director comey has to say as well. variance he testified at somewhat variance to what these texts reveal as well.ng >> tucker: amazing. thank you very much for this. >> have a good night. >> tucker: depressing story. the second annual women's march took place over the weekend. supposed to promote women's rights, it degenerated into racial attacks on camera. that story is next. ♪ is next. is next. ♪

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>> tucker: the second annual women's march took place over the weekend, but already the event has turned into an >> tucker: the second annual women's march took place over the weekend, but already the event has turned into an opportunity for the left to push a racial and pretty radical agenda. repeatedly, progressive -- offered the march to denounce a whole group of women as a race. watch. >> white women, listen up. we've got to do better. we've got to do better. it is not up to women of color to save this country from itself. that's on all of us! >> so many of you in this audience have had a lifetime of activism. a lot of us, particularly us white women, have a lot of catching up to do. hold other white folks accountable!

especially those you are closest to! >> tucker: rachel campos duffy is a fox news contributor. what is that? i can't stand when people talk about that in public.c. that actually is the definition of divisive. i people didn't use to talkal like that. what are they doing? >> i think for the leaders of this march, the march is not about women, it's about politics, it's about power. in the case of cecile richards it's about money. the message to women is,wn we've got all these black and brown people voting the way we want, now you guys get in line too. it strikes me as the opposite of a profeminist, pro-woman message. >> tucker: it definitely does. i'm trying to be open-minded. i certainly support the right of people who disagree politicallyy to march and to say what theype think. i'm not a liberal so i am actually for free speech. there is a kind of brittle tone to this that doesn't seem constructive, it seems just angry. what is that about? >> it's interesting, the contrast.

if you talk about the anger, the right to life march. i've been to both of these marches. in fact, i covered the march for women in new york city for "fox and friends" this past weekend. the marchers were angrier than the marchers at right to life march. i would say, when i went into the crowd, i don't think the leadership is on the same page as the people in the crowd. the leadership have a very cleah idea of what they want. the people in the crowd were sort of there for lots of different reasons, mainly of course, that they were very angry at trump. it was an anti-trump march. but they had all these other t issues that they were concerned about. interestingly, i did ask many of the marchers what they thought about pro-life women and if pro-life women would be welcome at the march and unanimously every one of the marchers said yes, pro-life women would be welcomed at the march. which is completely out of line with where the leadership last year when they kicked out new wave feminist group, aey group that was against trump but was decidedly pro-life. they weren't allowed to

participate and the reason is il think somebody like cecil richards from planned parenthood. they see their power waningg because technology has really sort of made no one question the humanity of the fetus. she is losing power and so she sort of globbed onto this women's march, which is sort of anti-trump plus #metoo plus a bunch of other issues altogether. she's using the march to unite or sort of attach herself to a woman's march. what it does, if you disagreeee with them on abortion, for example, or even the resistance, you are not part of the sisterhood, you are against women, which is the tactic t they've used with hispanics like me who are conservative. they say you don't agree with us, you are a coconut, you are brown and the outside but white on the inside. i've been getting a lot of

"tia toms" like auntie toms. that's how they try and get you in line, they try and shame you. >> tucker: i think your analysis is really smart. i think you are exactly right. as they feel like they're losing control of the conversation, it's like regimes when they feel like they are losing control they become repressive. t that's exactly i think what's going on. >> can i say one more thing? >> tucker: of course. >> you mentioned the regime, which isis interesting. a lot of the marchers>> talked about donald trump as if he was this autocratic dictator and they talked about his administration as a regime. it struck me as quite funny because i feel like he spent the last year decentralizing government, decentralizing politics and giving power back to the people, which strikes me is the opposite of what a dictator would do. it was very interesting.re >> tucker: they don't even have their appointees in place! if anything, he is the opposite. it's the least organized group i've seen. >> exactly. but when i brought up to some of the women -- you see the full tape from "fox and friends" online if you pull it up. but when i asked them about the economy and how well women are doing in the trump economy, unemployment among women is at an 18 year low. so many minorities are doing

so much better under this economy. they seemed utterly uninterested. some conceded it but almost all said it was obama's economy. >> tucker: of course, because the left doesn't care about that. >> messaging for the right and one last message, they are energized. the conservative movement, the republicans need to watch out. >> tucker: that's obvious. thank you for that. good to see you. assisted suicide is now legal in six states, also in d.c. but are they making dying easier or encouraging people to die earlier for the sake ofin cost-saving? talk about it with a supporter of these laws next. ♪ liberty mutual stood with me when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that.

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patients can simply kill themselves rather than exceed expensive medical care. do we risk having the right to die become a duty to die? are economic pressures going to play a role in this? a talk show host, liberal, very smart. she's supports assisted suicide, she just joins us tonight for a conversation about it. amy, thanks for coming on.n. >> thanks for having me back to discuss another important topic. >> tucker: i think this is important. i don't want to make a case against assisted suicide. i'm personally opposed to it though i understand why people would be for it and i hesitate even to get involved. i just want to make an obvious point and i'm sure you've thought about this. why wouldn't there be an enormous economic pressure brought to bear on a system that spends a huge percentage of all expenditures on the last months of life pushing people to kill themselves? why wouldn't that happen? >> there are always going to be economic pressures in life, that's kind of the nature of life. but in terms of this idea of a duty to die culture arising simply because of this law, i

just don't think it could happen. there have to be a couple other factors at play, which i hope o to get you. to me, the situation you are concerned about, the one in which somebody would feel that they have a duty to die maybe because of pressure from unscrupulous family members who want to hang onto money or whatever it is, that sort of scenario is, to me like the scenario of the home school in california run by the turpins, this horrific, disgusting abuse and so-called home school. i would know more take a case like that as a reason to curtail the right to school your children at home then i would to deny the availability of humane treatment at end-of-life to human beings. the same we give to our animals. >> tucker: okay. why wouldn't health insurers see what's obvious? they have a massive incentive -- i'm not saying they're doing

this now, but i believe they will, why wouldn't they, to encourage people to get off of their insurance, stop costing all this money, if you have copd or you have some advanced cancer. it costs them a ton of money to keep them alive, why wouldn't they exert pressure on you to kill yourself and save them untold millions? that's going to happen. >> first of all, you have to have safeguards in any law like this.pe you're going to have to make sure that the person making the decision voluntarily, it's not due to pressure from other people, it's not due to depression, where it's just depression talking, or -- you also have to check and make sure they have a real reason that they would want to die, that a rational person would say, givei the suffering that i have before me, that's all i have, that i would want to do this. let me tell you what i think is at play in terms of potentially creating a duty to die culture. i think there's two things. one of them is the way that medicine is going right now.

we have a large segment of our market is socialized already, socialized medicine and i know you don't like socialized medicine. and in addition to that, there are other perverse incentives that are created because of government interference in the medical industry. it makes medicine more expensive. it makes the economic pressures more likely. the second thing is the thing that has, i think, given rise to socialized medicine, the place where you and i probably disagree, the altruist ethics in our culture. in our culture, it is almost universally upheld to be moral to sacrifice your interests to the interests of other people, to act out of duty. >> tucker: exactly. >> if you see that you are going to be able to do your duty and sacrifice or, say, your family members and cost less money or cost less money for society atay large because of socializeder

medicine or whatever by choosing to die earlier, then you might feel pressured into it, but the answer then is to reject socialized medicine and to reject the altruist morality. >> tucker: you come on, we are supposed to debate and you make my case more crisply and in a more compelling way than i managed to. i think we are just going to clip the last minute and a half of you talking and i should scare the crap out of anybody who is for assisted suicide. you are right, we are not changing medicine and we are w t changing human nature. >> i think we are going to change those and the answer to the fact that those controls are creating perverse incentives is not to take freedom away from people. freedom is messy, but i don't think we should have a duty to die and we shouldn't have a duty to live, particularly if living constitute suffering. >> tucker: people kill themselves, many do and sadly increasing numbers. the question is you want the system to play a role in that. do you want doctors and health

insurers to be standing on the sidelines nodding you on as you do it? >> no rational doctor would want to help a patient end his or her life unless those safeguards that i talked about were there. >> tucker: we are out of time. that was interesting as always.. come back, thank you. >> thanks very much. >> tucker: someone just called for mike rowe to be booted off television for political views, does he have them? we'll ask him next. ♪ ...and your ancestor was a fisherman. with blue eyes. just like you. begin your journey at ancestry.com pssst. what?

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♪ ♪ >> tucker: mike rowe spent his life championing ordinary people and not everyone is everyone is appreciated.d. rowe is narrating the new season

of the discovery channel's "how the universe works." one viewer says he's not fit for the job. why? on facebook that you were argue that he is "antieducation, science-doubting, ultra right wing conservative" and ought to be replaced by either a scientist or, maybe better, an actor. what's his response to that? he joins us in studio with that response. mike, antiscience. >> if only we could get an actor. >> tucker: someone withh authority. someone who pretends for a living. who is this person, by the way? >> i think her name was rebecca and i think she was one of the legions of facebookers who justb kind of cruise around and had an ax togi grind. you know how it works, anybody can say anything to anybody nowadays.ru i generally welcome criticism. in fact, i kind of crave it. but this woman actually really got my attention because she copied everybody, tagged everybody, including my bosses at the production company, my bosses at the network, and so she essentially said that because she had an opinion ofwo what my opinions might be on certain things, those opinions

of her opinion regarding my m opinion might not necessarily be completely congruent with the opinions of scientists that may or may not weigh in on verye specific topics regarding the workings of the universe. i'm the narrator of the show. i don't improvise, i walk in, ii sit down and i talk and a crisp, well modulated baritone and tell you about supernovas and quasars, things like that. i mind my own business, i sip my tea in a climate controlled booth and i don't -->> >> sean: >> tucker: you are notg in political propaganda in the script? >> the opposite of that. i take all opinion, nuance, and anything that could real attitude out of my voice and just read somebody else's -- >> tucker: that's why the story was so interesting and revealing. i've watched it carefully for

more than 15 years, probably. >> that's not weird at all. >> tucker: i'm good at sniffing it out. a i've never detected a political statement of any kind from you at all. you play straighter than anyone i've ever seen. >> thanks. >> tucker: that itself is now a political statement it seemsha like. >> that's what's fascinating about it. it's not what you say, it's what you don't. measure ore how we quantify it, but we do, and there's a mysterious algorithm floating around social media that for a long time, if you said the wrong thing, you heard about it quickly. now if you don't say the right thing, you hear about it instantaneously. it makes the conversation about the whole topic nothing short of fascinating. in fact, i thought of you when i was responding to her, which i did in about 1200 words. i was on a plane, trapped, and had some time on my hands.s. i share your view about social media. i think there's a lot to be concerned about with regard to a the way it's used.d. and i think -- i think one day i will be back here talking to you about the parallels between

the second amendment and the first amendment vis-a-vis social media and gun control. what i mean to say is it's a tool. how you use social media today is a major conversation point and how this woman used it and how i responded to it and what i try to use it for what the show i'm working on and how other people choose to use it. i think it's going to be the issue of our times. >> tucker: you don't care, for whatever reason, to share your g political beliefs, assuming you even have any, i don't know that you do. >> i do. >> tucker: you don't share them. you are rigorous about not sharing them. how long can you keep that up? >> i think indefinitely, but there's a difference between hiding and not sharing. i've never dodged a direct question on facebook or anywhere.ha the difference is if you are going to argue, i run a nonprofit foundation.. microworks is in its tenth year. as you know, we raise money for

work ethics scholarships and ifo you want to be taken even remotely seriously, not just as a narrator for a show you didn't write, but as the ceo of a foundation with your name in it, you can have an opinion, but if you're going to argue, you argue from the middle. you look at the facts as best you can, you ask for evidence, which is the first thing i didyo with rebecca. her accusations were very clear, but for a pro-science person, her case was conspicuously void of what you might call proof. you can have a good time and challenge people in a grown-up way to at least, at least create the illusion of persuasiveness. but if you can't do thatst then you probably ought not own an opinion. >> tucker: i'm never going to ask your political opinions because i love the fact that you stand as an island in a world full of people who can't wait to share theirs.ol >> an island in a storm.an >> tucker: you are a respites. from the squall. mike rowe, great to see he was always. >> thanks for having me. >> tucker: thank you.

cnn just made a pretty amazing admission about its coverage of the russia story. we will show it to you next. ♪ whoooo. when it comes to travel, i sweat the details. late checkout... ...down-alternative pillows... ...and of course, price. tripadvisor helps you book a... ...hotel without breaking a sweat. because we now instantly... ...search over 200 booking sites ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want.

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>> tucker: we have some news. the president has just signed legislation keeping the government open for another two weeks. the question then, we'll see in a notice?ti they spent the last year covering every development that nondevelopment in the russian collusion saga. yesterday, they covered relentlessly, but voters don't care. >> i am so interested to see how that russia investigation affects things because so far, when you talk to people about russia, that's all we talk about it cnn basically, they say they don't care, it doesn't have any effect on their lives. what does that turning point at which that really becomes an election issue? doesn't cast a cloud over trump? does it affect these races? i don't think we are seeing that quite yet and it will be a

really interesting to watch. >> tucker: a dangerously honest person at cnn. is she in trouble? good for her. that is it for us tonight. good night from washington. sean hannity is next.an don't miss that. >> sean: thank you. this is the biggest show we have had so far this year. tons of breaking news tonight. working right now, the attorney general jeff sessions revealing that there are over 50,000 -- we thought they were ten -- text messages between trumpeting fbi agent peter strzok and his fbi lawyer mistress lisa page. now ely nearly 400 of them are released this weekend. also tonight, stunning evidence that the fix is in, we have been right all along. the fbi now saying they lost five key months of text messages between the two lovers, strzok and page. this is a conspiracy to justice, i'm not buying it. part of the problem, it's a troubling pattern. we've seen it over and over again, hillary and