>> now we are waiting for the >> kennedy: it's not going to be comprehensive immigration court appearance by nikolas cruz. reform. fox news channel will be >> katie: it shouldn't be, following the proceedings for you. thank you for joining us. that's what we started out with. we are expecting the suspect in >> "outnumbered" starts now. the florida school massacre to be making a court appearance. >> kennedy: this is a fox news nikolas cruz, 17 counts of alert, protest in washington premeditated murder. and questions about the following the horrific massacre mainstream media crossing the line after washington post said in florida. students say they are going to lie on the ground in front of the white house to symbolize how quickly the shooter was able to president trump doesn't care get an assault rifle before about the shooting victims. killing 17 people. we will talk aboutme it. their goal is to send a message n gym memberships. about gun violence and demand change. it comes on the heels of an get money back antigun rally, several rallies in multiple states over the hilarious. weekend. with claim-free rewards. we will have more on the story in just a bit a little bit later switching to allstate is worth it. in the hour. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient another fox news alert on the originally discovered... investigation into russian in jellyfish. election meddling. growing questions about russian in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown attempts to sway the 2016 vote to improve short-term memory. and concerned they will try to do it again after special prevagen. the name to remember.

counsel robert mueller indicts 13 russians, accusing them of interfering in the 2016 election. this is "outnumbered," welcome to it. i am kennedy. here today, trish regan, the editor of townhall.com, katie pavlich. a strategist on fox news contributor, lisa boothe. and joining us today on the couch, fox news politics editor and the editor of the "halftime report, chris stirewalt. >> chris: finding my center space, my happy space. it's presidents' day. >> kennedy: it is presidents day, it should be a light, fluffy holiday. much news to get to, let's kick it off. growing questions about russian influence in the 2016 election, special counsel robert mueller indicts 13 russians. they are accused of undermining our democracy and trying to help then candidate donald trump win. president trump firing off a

series of tweets at the announcement including one saying "i never said russia did not meddle in the election. i said it may be russia or china or another country or it may be a 400-pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer. the russian hope was if the trump campaign colluded with russia, it never did. and another ranking democrat on the house until committee saying "now that adam schiff is starting to blame president obama for russian meddling in this election, he is probably doing so is yet another excuse that the democrats, led by their fearless leader cricket hillary clinton lost the 2016 election. but wasn't i a great candidate?" adam schiff elaborated on that yesterday. >> i've said all along that i thought the obama administration

should have done more and indeed when we discovered, we could attribute the conduct to russia, senator dianne feinstein and i took the first steps to make public attribution because at that time we couldn't get the obama administration to acknowledge the russian interference. they were very wary of appearing to be putting their hand on the scale and the election. they did make an acknowledgment the following month but i don't think that was sufficient. >> do you think this indictment suggests that it's a case close no collusion? >> no, of course not. this is a president who claims vindication any time someone sneezes. >> kennedy: senator bernie sanders says what obama did or did not do is not the issue. >> the real issue right now is how do we have a president of the united states not saying what everybody knows to be true? russia interfered in 2016, they are going to interfere in 2018 and we have got do everything we can to make sure they do not undermined american democracy.

this is a huge deal and if we don't have the president speaking out on this issue, it's a horror show and we have to bring democrats and republicans together despite the president to go forward and protect the integrity of american democracy. >> kennedy: kevin corke is live from west palm beach where the president has been spending the weekend. kevin? >> a very interesting >> kennedy: we are going to introduction there. take you live to a fort lauderdale courtroom where i would just say this as it confessed florida shooter relates to the senator from the nikolas cruz is in the midst of great state of vermont, it does a status hearing. matter from the white house's perspective who was in leadership at the time of alleged russian meddling. keep in mind this was all the trish, let's talk a little bit about this. way back to 2014 and that means what are your thoughts on his confession and plea? some of the following gentlemen were involved, meaning they knew >> trish: i think what is at issue right now and what we are it was possibly happening. going to learn from this judges whether or not certain documents president obama for example, can be unsealed, documents that james comey of the fbi. you can argue, the cia, they i believe the public defender would like to see unsealed. know this was happening as far the state has not yet seen these documents and the judge is going as 2014? and if so, what did they do to be making this determination. about what they knew was there is been some speculative

actually happening? you talked about the president, chatter that it may have to do he is continuing to make the with some snapchat videos he has argument that when rod put out earlier which may rosenstein came out and announce those indictments, 13 russians. suggest exactly how mentally ill basically what he's done is he really was. underscore the president's that's going to be a question in argument that it wasn't the all of this. the state would like to see the trump campaign and this was death penalty end of the defender you would think would happening to america's political say okay, no. debate long before he even ran for office. he shouldn't get that because he here is his former campaign was not in the right frame of manager backing him up. mind and he is mentally ill. >> the president has a very betty should be life in prison. important point, the previous administration under james >> katie: his charges are comey's lack of leadership at the fbi should've been doing premeditated murder, his defense attorney is arguing that he is a something about this because broken person and they are going they were informed back in may to try to argue he is mentally ill and should not get the death of 2014 -- don't forget. penalty. whether that will hold up based donald trump came down that beautiful escalator in june of on the evidence we have so far of him saying he can do school 2015. 13 months later, what we now shootings better, all of his know according to the instagram posts, the fact the indictments from rod rosenstein, police visit us his home 30 plus for 13 months prior to times, there is a lot. donald trump getting into the race, the russians are trying to do something to materially >> kennedy: that is essentially once every five months, fighting with him and

change of our election. his brother. >> very interesting there from we are hearing from psychologists and social worker corey lewandowski. reports that said he was a the president also took to threat to himself and to no one twitter to at least give and add a boy to former special counsel else. and defending counsel kim starr. >> chris: everything makes me sad about this but what makes me he said thank you, the sad about these moments are the whitewater independent counsel degree to which these people for your insight and powerful succeed in their aim of becoming words on fisa abuse, here is famous. or becoming infamous when we think about the shooter in the movie theater in colorado, we what he has to say about that. think about this person, may god >> we are aiming our guns where they should be aimed. have mercy on their souls and i think we should stop pointing let the criminal justice system figures to fingers at one do it well but the broken -- another in this country and realize who the real enemy is. these broken people and their desire for infamy, to be known, that they would be somebody >> the real enemy according to is -- that they are to whatever ken starr is obviously russia. i will leave you with this, i degree capable of achieving it. think you might find this instructive. people are saying the russians were trying to help donald trump. you can make the argument that >> kennedy: there are a lot of what they were really doing is broken people in the world. trying to not just sow discord they do not act like this. but damage the presumptive winner which would've been hillary clinton. >> lisa: how much is that of course the tables were turned on november 8th. infamy on motivating factor for

back to you. >> kennedy: thank you so much some of these individuals? for that report, we will take we've seen 15 of the 20 worst you to the couch were a little mass shootings have happened since that time. bit more discussion. what is also happened, 24-hour chris, let's take a look at this. who is more to blame here? media, twitter, social media as the president for not taking on well. more aggressive stance against how much of a driving force is russia, when he talks about the that for these individuals to want to commend these acts? disconnect, there is no collusion between his administration and the russians. >> katie: that is true, giving that appears to be reinforced them fame and infamy as something maybe they calculate. with every indictment and every thing we hear from the special counsel. however now you have even adam however, i really -- in these schiff saying this campaign to situations we tend to start focusing on all the things disrupt the election goes back around the individual. to 2014. should the obama administration he is the one who carried this been more forceful with the out, who said multiple times he wanted to carry out a school intelligence against the shooting. russians? >> i bet he wishes he had been. he is the one who did this. i like cory lewandowski, he said "why didn't they do a better job of stopping the russians from helping us? we are splitting these hairs so >> kennedy: it takes a level thin now to try to come up with of competence to maintain who was more responsible or several social media accounts which he did. who's to blame. i will tell you, i will let you we may see some unsealed snapshots of those things, none

when the dirty secret. of this would be a surprise considering the volume of material and the advertisements who is to blame for russian he made for his desire to kill as many people. campaign meddling, every american who traded insults online, who degraded the >> lisa: that is so disheartening as well. patriotism of their political rivals, every american who as katie pointed out, cops went to his house 36 times, the fbi clicked on stories that were too good to be true because they had was born twice about this to believe something really individual. rotten about the other party. somehow, nothing was done about it and here we are. this is an inside job. i think it's really >> kennedy: you don't need disheartening for people that facebook ads for that, if you did step forward and say something about this guy. are a conservative, you can go to solon or msnbc if you want to >> trish: there should be some responsibility that we place see how the other side's counter upon the social media companies, programming. whether it is snapchat, facebook, instagram. >> chris: you can go to these things are happening under breitbart, "the daily caller" ," their watch. what role should they play? you can find outlets. >> kennedy: keep an eye on the russians couldn't have been this, we will have more successful in this if it were not for the fact that our own "outnumbered" in just a moment, stay rightla here. sense of virtue and restraint in dealing for each other and our countrymen hadn't already been degraded so much. we were sitting ducks. >> katie: when you look at the .

timeline of this facebook ad, democrats have really hitched her wagon to this propaganda. we did see the propaganda, the money by the russians that was backed up by this indictment. when you look at this going . forward, the ads that were bought after the election, it's very clear that the russians maybe weren't pushing one candidate or the other, the goal was to so this discord in the country which i think they've been very successful at doing. the past year has been nothing but investigations, democrats and republicans going after each other on capitol hill, to various outlets, information that isn't in context. the russians have been successful but bob mueller deserves credit in terms of going after these guys, putting it down on paper with these indictments, the grand jury deserves credit as well. this is a positive statement that's come out of the special counsel in terms of making sure the russians know they are on notice and hopefully preventing them from doing it again.

>> kennedy: trish, i want to ask you. when i read through the indictments, its wire fraud and identity theft, bank fraud and a number of other serious crimes but it also looked like what political operatives do within the political parties we have in this country. when you are paying people from another country like russia to give you dirt on a political opponent, it almost looks the exact same, what did the indictment say to you? >> trish: i wanted to add one layer of context all of this, historically the russians have been doing this for decades. by the way, so did we. there was a crew down in venezuela to get rid of hugo chavez. i have a feeling that -- this is how the world works. anyone is incredibly naive to think the russians wouldn't try to meddle with us. the obama administration absolutely should have been all over this. they absolutely should have been talking to the social media

companies that got away with allowing all of this to exist as well. facebook doesn't care, twitter doesn't care. our government should have made them care. >> chris: i have to say out loud, we should be careful between moral relativism between the united states and russia. we did take down the government and the bad old days. in the cia days we absolutely had central america and all of latin america attached to that legend, of course. but in the current moment, we don't do anything like what russia did. what russia did was pay a lot of money to recruit these people to sit and interfere with our dialogue and get into our space. >> trish: maybe we should. >> kennedy: this is a question i don't have a sufficient answer to. if president obama had come out

and said the russians are meddling, they are putting a lot of money and resources into pretended to be americans, they are sewing chaos on social media. if he had done that, would hillary clinton have won? >> lisa: no, because she didn't set foot in wisconsin. ♪ >> and this is a fox news hillary clinton is responsible for entire loss. alert. florida school shooting suspect nikolas cruz making an appearance right now in a florida courtroom. even on the facebook ad the 19-year-old charged with spending, byron york has a great multiple counts of article in the "washington examiner" going premeditated murder for through this. allegedly killing 17 people at majory stone dougman this isn't to undermine or downplay the significance of russian interference. douglas high school on valentine's day: i'm in for you look at the state of wisconsin, there is something like $2,000 spent on facebook harris faulkner. cruz is there in that ads in wisconsin from the courtroom in fort lauderdale. russians. jeb bush spent $2800 on each this as we are learning a lot more about the suspect's troubled past as well as the individual voter in the state of text messages that he allegedly sent right before iowa during the republican the massacre. primary. let's be honest about the fact for more on the legal road ahead for nikolas cruz bring that that is a nominal amount of money. it doesn't mean it is not in former federal prosecutor

doug burns. important to pay attention to doug, if cruz speaks, we're this and it doesn't mean we going to go to the courtroom shouldn't be concerned about and hear what he has to say this but the way it's been projected to the media that or the judge in the case speaks. these ads won the election for at issue right now, doug, it's my understanding, first of all, that the defense president trump is wrong. >> kennedy: there may be called this hearing. >> yes. >> the defense wants to keep correlation in ad buys and how his medical records sealed. people may have interface with why? these things on social media but >> they want to take a there's not up cause and effect. precautionary step. first of all, this is pure legal. you know, shop talk. you can't say because these ads it's early in the were brought here and displayed proceedings. and any kind of medical there it changed people's votes and minds. >> i agree with you 100% but it doesn't mean you should ignore it. whether it's this administration, the trump administration, the obama administration, they all need to be more proactive. >> kennedy: we have new reports that joe biden is inching closer to that 2020 presidential bid. go ahead and bust out the champagne. whether the move would help or harm the democratic party and whether he can actually win. protesters gathering outside the white house this presidents' day to demand stricter gun laws

after a series of rallies over the weekend following the florida shooting massacre. whether lawmakers will finally be forced to act and whether that will be a good thing.

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>> katie: >> katie: the gun conl debate heating up after the horrific high school shooting in florida. teenage students from washington, d.c., are staging lie and protest outside the white house to represent the victims and demand gun reform. multiple multiple anti-gun ralln the state of florida over the weekend. teenagers are calling on people across the country to march in solidarity next month. >> march 24th and every single city we are going to be marching together as students begging for our lives. this isn't about the g.o.p., this isn't about the democrats. this is about the adults. we feel neglected and at this point you are either with us or against us. >> the kids who need to take part in this our everyday kids just like us. they are students who need to understand that this can very quickly happen to them and we are doing everything within our power to prevent it from happening to them but they need

to join us and they need to help us get our message across. >> katie: some republican lawmakers are on board to pass legislation to protect against these kinds of attacks. >> i have no issue with extensive background checks, we have determined as a country that only a court can actually take away a constitutional right and the right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right. >> what we need is congressional leaders specifically in my party to allow some of these bills to come to the floor for debate. there are a lot of republicans who are prepared to support reasonable, common sense gun safety laws. >> katie: the white house echoing those calls, here is principal deputy secretary raj shah. >> when you are looking at a way to fix the system, you want to understand, what broke down and allowed for this individual to go on unattended while other people are raising red flags?

unstable, dangerous people in law enforcement and their own family members are flagging should never have access to a deadly weapon of that sort and we want to make sure we can do that in the proper way. >> katie: sarah sanders says president trump has spoken to lawmakers on this issue and supports efforts to improve the criminal background check system. jim hein says there needs to be changed but he has little faith congress can get anything done. >> the facts are incontrovertible here. it is example after example. people like marco rubio and speaker ryan and sad to say, most republicans in congress and a few democrats, they can't allow the conversation to goad. this is why the nra puts out videos to try to scare americans. they go to emotions, they go to fair. nobody wants to take away people's guns. >> katie: we've sure heard a lot about the nra and common

sense solutions but it's not exactly clear what that means. clearly here we had a breakdown in a number of steps. we don't take human error out of the criminal background check system, are we going to prevent things like this from happening? >> chris: there was legislation, bipartisan legislation to clean up the interface between the mental health system and the criminal background check so there is a consolidated database so gun sellers would be able to know -- this guy -- this would not have stop this killing. but it's something that is common sense, is bipartisan and had all the support but the house when the legislation was moving tactile poison pill onto the legislation and said for a full reciprocity for full concealment carry around the country. within it was a dead letter when i got to the scented senate so. now the white house is coming back to support this legislation, john cornyn who is no slouch on the second

amendment front and the leading voice on gun control from connecticut. they are coming together, they are behind this legislation. the lesson for both sides is just because you can't do everything that you want to do, don't let that stop you from doing something. >> katie: i want to reference for the viewers and the audience, on the left side of your screen we are watching the students in washington, d.c., outside of the white house, protesting and wanting more gun reform, gun control laws. they are arguing that this is in response to the florida shooting. kennedy, there is a question here not about just the second amendment but about civil liberty. big questions about what and who decides that someone is mentally unfit to own a firearm? just beyond the second amendment. >> kennedy: we've talked on the couch a lot about -- especially since the shooting, about this violent manifestation of mental illness. and that is what is most serious and that's what you see across the board with these mass shooters. there are so many symptoms and so many people who knew this

person was deeply disturbed and was violent and was going to act on those violent urges. you have a break down there but also one of the problems, and i understand wanting to clarify the background check. it is universally known that this person should not of had a gun and something went wrong. there should have been some report from a psychologist or law enforcement or the fbi that issued a restraining order so this person was blocked from buying a gun on his own. that didn't happen. that is a big failure and to break down every mental illness is not a violent mental illness. and there are people -- to say someone is agoura phobic, does that mean they don't have a constitutionally protected right to defend themselves? it also demeans those who might be suffering from a mental illness that does not impair -- >> katie: i think it's also important to point out the senator cornyn bill comes from

the church shooting. senator john cornyn represents the state of texas. to try to force federal agencies and states to comply with a database and make sure they are inputting the proper data that fully prevents individuals who should not be getting guns from getting guns. another important point on all of this that i think often gets missed, this isn't just the left versus right issue and we are talking about gun control. the national journal road after the vegas shooting, there is rural state democrats running for reelection who are also not talking about gun control measures. it's also a geographical issue depending on the state, depending on your constituency as well. someone who is mentally ill should not have access to a gun, we need to do something to improve the background check and that may mean giving up some privacies along the way because the way the current law is, that's how this information doesn't get shared, can't get shared. in this case it would have saved

17 lives had that information been shared. >> katie: there are a long list of things that are either missed or ignored. we will keep you updated on tha that. moving along, president trump and house speaker paul ryan sitting down for a high-stakes meeting heading into the midterms. there appears to be new red flags from democrats, details ahead on the hapless joe biden reportedly tiptoeing towards our 2020 presidential run. whether a joe biden bid helps democrats chances are if it is just evidence that the democrats bench is pretty weak. have two of these? since i'm active duty and she's family, i was able to set my sister up with a sweet membership from navy federal. if you hold it closer, it looks bigger. eat your food my big sis likes to make tiny food.

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since taking effect and could be a winning issue for the party in the midterms. democrats are hoping they can message to win votes in november. nancy pelosi, given her recent comments on the worker bonuses resulting in the new tax law. >> in terms of the bonus that corporate america received versus the crumbs they are giving to workers to put the schmooze on is so pathetic. >> trish: here's the reality, not kennedy. it's not crumbs, this is real money to a lot of americans. the more she's up there saying none of this matters, the more everyday folks are saying wait a second, yeah, it does. and if i am doing better it's not because of her. >> kennedy: how can she rail against companies who knowingly and happily gave workers bonuses and anticipation of the tax cuts they are getting?

i am sorry. if you don't have a lot of money, $2500 is a lot of money and it certainly is welcome at a timing where a lot of people are in debt post holidays. she is worth $100 million and marie antoinette and her bobble head going around, so incredibly out of touch. it's that kind of messaging you will do democrats so much harm going into the midterms. it is quite possible for them to develop a positive economic message. this, oddly enough, is not that message. >> trish: election after election, i think what it comes down to is how people feel about that candidate's ability to provide a secure economic futur future. for one family. you look at what happens in this go around, talking about whether it's the russians or hillary clinton's inability to connect with people and go places like wisconsin or pennsylvania and campaign, it's a continuation of hillary clinton. what nancy pelosi is doing right

now. come 2018, if they don't look like they connect on the economy. >> chris: i would caution republicans of this, mitt romney did better than barack obama, the exit poll was close but it was unambiguous that they thought he was better at handling the economy and they still voted against him. >> trish: i will tell you why. they were not confident that mitt romney would be able to deliver enough of a future. they didn't like him. >> chris: i think you are closer there. you may have seen more of the exit polls that i did but i think that romney didn't connect and relate to people. >> kennedy: he ran from his wealth and i think that is a bad idea. >> chris: there are many reasons. there are many reasons. but we should remember this. personality and people count.

nancy pelosi's greatest liability for democrats -- the republicans better look out because if i was nancy pelosi i will be thinking about doing a switch in about august and say actually, i am stepping aside. she has clung to power with the tenacity. >> katie: this is the thing that breaks the democratic party apart one more time. he goes when do we become the party of the rich? demonizing money people are making. elizabeth warren has put on blast here. she's been asked repeatedly when she is still calling corporations bad one their islands giving out the increase in minimum wage.

it also splits the democratic party again between nancy pelosi, $100 million at work, hillary clinton who is very unrelatable and couldn't relate to the average person and emboldens the part of their party they've been trying to get rid of. including to the dnc. >> lisa: i think the biggest thing from the republican party in the way they look at tax reform is the message is going to be look at all this momentum, do you want this to keep going? the individuals who are going to stop it or the democratic party. the big question is, is the driving force enough to get your base to turn out in the midterm election which is what you need to? >> trish: i don't necessarily think it is, i think they have become the party of no end republicans are becoming the party of prosperity. there is a likability factor that matters. i don't know how you get them out unless you convince them, and this is what you see, do you have a racist, sexist man in the

oval office and that will rally the base but the economy certainly won't. >> katie: joe biden is reportedly tiptoeing toward a third shot at the white house. ap reports during a meeting for his new diplomacy center in washington, biden told longtime policy agency is keeping his 2020 options open. the second in command of former president obama is more hopeful. the report saying "several people came away from the meeting with the impression that if no strong democratic candidate emerges in the next year or so, biden would be strongly compelled to run. biden would be 78 on inauguration day if elected in 2020. a concerning prospect for some democrats, even though he's only a few years older than trump. a national poll taken in december shows 57% of people see biden favorably. 27% have an unfavorable opinion of him and a poll this month by a left-leaning organization

shows biden doing the best against the president in a hypothetical 2020 match up. obviously i'm going to start with you on this, chris. you are in all things politics guy on the couch and the network. what does it say to you, vice president joe biden, somebody who has run twice before for a resident, what does it say to you about the state of the democratic party that he's being touted as a prospect? >> chris: i want you to know something terrible. here is terrible knowledge. you can hold deep in your bosom. the democrats are going to have 20 or 24 legitimate candy mitts 2020. it is the enormous newness of -- the immensity of the democratic field. we are going to have to get our minds around it. when the republicans did the same thing in 2016, there were two stages, the preparty and the after party, all of this stuff. the democrats are going to have

a similar situation because there are so many people. so you can look at it as bad in the sense of they don't have an anointed heir apparent. you can also say they had an anointed heir apparent last time and she stunk on ice. >> katie: joe biden, clearly a big problem with democrats missing working-class voters. we should have solved that back in the democratic primary when hillary clinton lost michigan to bernie sanders. that being said, do you think looking at someone like joe biden, they recognize they have that flaw heading into 2020? >> kennedy: perhaps they should recognize that he's the guy they should've put up instead of hillary clinton all along because he would have given donald trump a run for his money. he connects with your average american. for whatever reason you had a billionaire wealthier than anybody else who would ever run for president including mitt romney who owned it and basically connected with the hardworking american out there that's pulling three shifts to take care of his family and a hell of way hillary clinton

couldn't. joe biden could do that. >> lisa: he's run twice before, he does have a history himself. >> kennedy: comparing bernie sanders and joe biden, bernie sanders does betty and better in a bad economy, joe biden does better in a good economy. i think joe could be a threat. >> katie: time is come running out for lawmakers to come up with a plan to protect dreamers. the senate failed to get it done and now it's up to the house. what to expect, stay tuned. i have type 2 diabetes. i'm trying to manage my a1c,

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♪ >> katie: growing questions about what's next for immigration reform after the senate failed to pass for different plans to protect dreamers from deportation. they are immigrants who came here illegally as children. now it's up to the house to pass legislation and president trump has expressed support for a conservative plan. it has a positive vote count so far but even if the blankets through the house it is likely not to pass in the senate. jeff sessions was asked this weekend if he thinks they will reach a deal by the march 5th deadline to replace the obama era daca sanctions. >> i don't know. the people who say they want to fix that, president trump has offered them that, he's been very generous in his legislation. i think that is a very generous policy, goes beyond what president obama had in his daca

policy. president trump's fundamentals are good. who can oppose ending the visa lottery? who wants to continue that lawlessness, who wants to create a situation in which you get amnesty for young people who are here and not end up with a legal system that will be enforceable. >> katie: we know the march 5th deadline is not really a deadline anymore because the federal courts have said president trump can't rescind daca, meaning he can't deport these kids until there is something more permanent. why is it so hard and what is meant to happen? >> chris: it's hard because hyperpartisanship makes us stupid, this is a pretty straightforward trade you would normally do, amnesty for this plus how much of border security or how much internal enforcement would normally be 1:1. the president, ted cruz and others are trying to get to his right, they have already come out and said i am more

conservative on this issue than you are and tom cotton is out there and says if you move 1 millimeter further towards consensus on this, i will be in your way, that is pressed pressure on the president. for the democrats, their hard-line folks want everything all at once. is there -- are there 60 votes in the senate that get to a solution and move past it? it would have to be -- there will have to be some legislative magic. >> katie: this comes down to what the white house wants, what the president has said, the framework he wants. he's put some good numbers on the table, 1.8 million people getting this protection, parents of dreamers getting to say. what about that? if congress can't get what the president wants, are we really going anywhere? >> kennedy: congress could absolutely have what it wants and what the president wants and it's a pretty simple deal. the problem is what is being offered to these 1.8 million

people and is it just confined to that group? how do you set the parameters? there's a lot of good will and desire to compromise from both sides on these issues. but for the hard-core conservatives that you talk about, people that were very much anti-amnesty, does amnesty mean citizenship for millions of people who haven't waited in line like others who have tried to enter the country using more legal means? >> lisa: nancy pelosi said the deal president trump laid out, which i think most people would say was a very reasonable compromise, put out there. said that giving amnesty or a pathway to citizenship, whatever you want to call it, to 1.8 million illegal immigrants is making america white again. where do you go from there in trying to reach some sort of deal with democrats. >> katie: it's not just democrats who are a problem on this, it's also republicans.

you have republicans in a purple district saying i am not comfortable with e-verify and then there's the deep red districts that are very pro-immigration hawks, border hawks having a problem with amnesty. >> chris: it's going to be a 50-yard pass through attire because the house is going to pass this in the senate -- in his hip pocket mitch mcconnell has a skinny bill that is just a quick 1 for.