i'm not wonder woman but it made us laugh. we thought it would be good to close out friday night. good night from washington. gre. tucker is up. ♪ ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to tucker carlson tonight. >> tucker: welcome to tucker carlson tonight. within minutes of the parkland massacre we identified a villain, cnn published a piece scolding the president for calling him crazy. the real killer was the nra along with millions of law-abiding gun owners. blood was on their hands. now that we have some facts it turns out it's not so simple. the government at all levels played a role in allowing this ma massacre to happen. the details are shocking. here's part of what we learned

the broward county sheriff's office received at least 23 calls related to nikolas cruz and his family. in 2016 a deputy was told that cruz was threatening to shoot up his school and taken photographs of himself with firearms. that information was forwarded to deputy scot peterson. that is the security guard at stoneman douglas high school who hid outside during the shooting and refused to go inside while 17 people were murdered. president trump weighed in on him today on his way to cpac. watch. >> when it came time to get in there and do something he didn't have the courage or something happened. but he certainly did a poor job there's no question about that. he was there for five minutes. for five minutes. that was during the entire shooting. he heard it at the beginning. he certainly did a poor job. but that's the case where somebody was outside, they were

trained. they didn't react properly under pressure or they were a coward. >> tucker: scot peterson may not have been the only coward on the scene. three other deputies arrived at the school during the massacre d but did not enter instead hid outside their vehicles before coral springs officers arrived and found them. last november broward county was warned that cruz was a school shooter in the making and collecting weapons with which to do it. they told the tipster to report cruz to the palm beach county sheriff's office. that's how local police responded or didn't respond. later in 2016 despite suicidal behavior, the florida department of children and families decided he was not a threat to himself

and others. if they decided otherwise he would have been committed and barred from buying a gun. how was this guy able to buy a gun? that's how. and then there's the fed. in september of 2017 the fbi was warned that nikolas cruz, a youtube user wrote i'm going to be a professional school shooter. the fbi says that was not enough information to identify who made that remark and they were unable to investigate despite that cruz gave his real name. in january of 2018, the fbi was warned again that the fbi was planning to shoot up a school and was given information about his gun collecting and his express desire to kill people. the tipster warned that cruz was quote, going to explode and it was just a matter of time before he was in a school and shooting the place up. the caller told the fbi she made the call because she wanted a,

quote, clear conscious if he takes off and starts shooting places up. in response, the fbi did nothing. they didn't forward it to the miami field office so it died. the school system failed as well. in 2013 school officials decided to cut down on in-school arrests claiming that it was racially biassed. they stopped referring kids to school to police for actual crimes. total arrests declined from 1,000 a year to fewer than 400. despite getting in trouble with school authorities he was never arrested, charges, convicted or stopped from buying a gun. the schools, the florida schools, the bureaucracy, the fbi failed. the government's first duty is protecting its citizens, they failed. the citizens have to defend themselves. and the same government officials who failed to protect us are saying that we don't have

a right to protect ourselves. michael graham is the host of michael in the morning podcast and joins us tonight to assess this cascade of failures and the several righteousness that followed. the government officials rather than saying we screwed up and we're going to find out why are saying, america, it's your fault. >> you know, when you listen to you recounting all those events obviously the culprit is the nra. if only the nra were destroyed we would solve all these problems. i love the argument that we are not competent enough to own guns because we're too stupid and we'll shoot our eye out. so we have to rely on government. how about the government? they are in the parking lot hooitding waiting until the shooting is over. that proves that guns don't work. heads i win and tails you lose argument from people who want to restrict gun rights.

>> something is going on here, though, i have respect for and affection for law enforcement. i know a million of them and they protect us here at fox. grateful to them. but you have four separate armed cops or deputies refusing to go in. you can't tell me that all four of them are just cowards. is there some policy in place. if you took a cross section of americans, one of them would have gone in. what is this about? >> a normal person could not stand there with a gun and listen to kids get killed without running into the door. i wrote a piece looking at other incidents where cops stayed outside. the orlando massacre which was the worst shooting until las vegas, the cop shot -- had a gun exchange with the killer. the killer goes inside and the cop stays outside. three hours while murder is going on inside. in new town, a cop stood outside for four or five minutes

listening to the gunfire and did not go in the building. there are two branches here. one is cowardice and the other is training. columbine was supposed to be the turning point. it is like 9/11. you can't blame people for not understanding 9/11. but this is a post columbine moment. just as people in an airplane will never sit and wait for hijackers to take the plane anywhere, police should not sit and wait for people to die in the building. the argument i got today is you don't understand, michael, if we go in, there will be danger. there are dead people and a guy with a gun in there. the danger is already covered. my uncle is retired lapd. his brother was a deputy. i have law enforcement in my family. the vast majority want to the the right thing. but the number of police

officers who have told me my number one job is to go home safe at night to my family. and they point to a supreme court case that says police do not have a duty to protect you. and i think to myself, is that truly how you view the world? if your number one job is to go home safe at night you need to find a mall that needs a security guard and do that for a living. the reason we honor cops is that cops do that amazing thing. they see danger and they see an innocent person and themselves and they say i'm going to choose to get between the innocent person and the bad guy. that's why we honor cops. we don't honor them because they sit outside and wait for the s.w.a.t. team. >> don't prevent us from protecting ourselves. >> exactly. >> michael, thank you for that. that was insightful. >> thank you. >> tucker: last night we had gary farmer on to discuss his spo

support of gun control. gary farmer is trying to strip you of a basic constitutional right. we have to let you know he was not telling the truth in parts of that interview. before the show started a security guard at douglas high, hid outside the building. we just told you about that. the sheriff just had a press conference saying so. >> went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer. >> so we asked farmer about this and made the point, they are admitting they didn't protect the kids. should they be able to protect themselves. farmer said breaking news i can't respond to. that he began to make up his own facts about it. >> the fact of the matter is most of the carnage occurred before he had an opportunity to be there to stop it. >> tucker: that's not true. he made that up and started shouting. the shooting by the way lasted six minutes and peterson waited

for four minutes but farmer kept lying, including this. >> in this bill, owners of the rifles, including hunting rifles, owners -- >> not true, but keep going. misinformation number one. >> is true. would have to register those rifles with the government. am i misreading that? >> that's a different bill, tucker. >> tucker: so we just read the bill before last night's show and thought that was right. we looked it up again today and it was right. that bill requires you to register your firearms not because you did something wrong but because you have them. farmer says this is his bill. he must have known that and he lied about it. that is useful to know going forward. a retired staff sergeant who was wounded in afghanistan joins us tonight. thanks for coming up. so i think people are so horrified about what happened at

parkland going back 20 years to columbine and before that, they're open to solutions and a lot of people are open to gun control because it sounds like it might work. you have thought a lot about this. would it work? >> i learned the war game every move, work my way backwards and that's what i have done the last week. i have warp gamed the policies to the end. we make a decision. do we ban all guns or a certain type of gun which includes registry and things that a lot of people aren't in favor or or do more defensive posture and secure our schools and make sure the background checks work and go down a path that we are already on in either way. my upon and what i'm saying through the research and war gaming that i've seen and the rhetoric is that the first thing we need to do is make sure the

background checks we already do, work, make sure the infrastructure bind the law enforcement is being used. president bush's legacy is the department of homeland security. in a quick amount of time we were able to take local law enforcement stations that couldn't talk to each other on the radio or talk to the fire stations and coordinate their communication and intelligence all the way up to the fbi and further. and if we can't do the same amount of diligence and the same amount of work, that's that's not worth our time, a sweeping piece of legislation is the answer we go to now then we're suffering from the instant gratification that takes hold of millennials. >> tucker: and missing the point that why is our society producing people like nick last cruz in the first place. we have far more restrictive gun laws than we did when i was born

and we have more shootings. maybe we are not enforcing them correctly. if the government is not enforcing the laws on the books why is nobody holding the government accountable. >> right now it's not about what makes our schools safer. i'm sure a lot of people spewing rhetoric feel that way. i have a house full of guns. none of them are going to kill anyone that doesn't need to die because they're trying to hurt my family. but when you war game these out, for example if you ban ars you're going to have to grandfather in the ones that are here or have a compensation program. timothy mcveigh killed people with a bomb made from fertilizer and diesel fuel because he didn't agree with how the government was handling a policy. if you confiscate guns, crazy is going to come out again and just as bad. so don't start catalysts for people to go out and do other things that are evil and tormented. if you try to ban these guns, if

you don't go that path you'll do the national firearms act. so basically you'll put the guns in a category with suppressers and fully autoand they are infin italy expensive and only rich people can own these types of guns. >> i don't think that would bother michael bloomberg but you make a good point. johnny, thank you. >> thank you for having me on. >> tucker: we interviewed a survivor of the parkland shooting, he was invited to cnn this week but he withdrew when he says that cnn altered one of his questions. colton describes cnn as ideological and dishonest. almost immediately after the show, cnn responded by claiming that colton is lying and altering evidence. tonight cnn executives leaked an unauthorizized release of

colton's personal e-mails claiming that he altered evidence of his exchange with a cnn producer. all of this surprised us. it was just a few days ago that cnn was declaring that anyone who questioned the integrity of parkland swiemps is a monster, guilty of the most severe kind of moral crime and yet cnn is doing the very same thing right now, questioning the integrity of a survivor because it suits them. so there's some irony. there but there is also the larger and we think more important question of what is true. this is journalism. we don't know what is actually true. we're going to do our best to find out and tell you if we do. the press spent a year clamoring for truth about collusion with russia. why are they now denying it ever existed. that's next.

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>> tucker: the american media were sbe fwral to create the narrative that the trump campaign colluded with vladimir putin to hack the election and the same outlets now say they never claimed that. they treat the mueller investigation efforts assay cred even though there are 13 democrats, three independents and no republicans. lee smith a senior fellow at the hudson institute and joins us tonight. whatever you think of the russia investigation you can't deny

that the press alleged collusion for months. it's a little much to pretend they didn't. >> this was going on well before the election and the story is that we know were attributed to or believed to have come from the steele dossier. that was the mother jones piece. this started in july. if you look there is a campaign of information operation the press is going on prestige publications and the american press who are going after carter page, the whole thing is ridiculous. if you look at how they are attacking carter page. no one knows who carter page is at this point. like they are talking about kissinger or something like that. >> tucker: if i were repeating every talking point that gm sent me that would not make me a journalist, that makes me an employee of gm. reporters are doing that with the intel community and the

mueller investigation. >> it's shameful that the american press is working -- has been working for a while with the intelligence community taking leaks from them, many of the leaks of course are illegal like with the leak of michael flynn, exactly, the way they are working in an information operation along with the intelligence community. it's a horrible thing to have happen to the press and the press did it to themselves. >> tucker: you can hurt yourself as a journalist if you are not skeptical. even though journalists have always been liberal. but skepticism was a thing that tied us altogether. what happened to that? >> i think a lot of things have happened. it's not just the press leaning toward the left which is usually the press has alms been. >> tucker: for sure. >> something very different happened here. i do believe there will be a price to pay. once different people once the narrative fades away and the dossier nonsense is gone through, i believe people will

look back and say what happened here? we enjoyed it, it was a bunch of chocolates and got a rush from it but we don't believe we can trust them any more. >> tucker: i know you're not here to talk politics but i can't resist, can you run a mid-te mid-term election on russian collusion? can democrats win on this story? >> i don't see how. what are they going to do? run against vladimir putin? i think it is much more likely the republicans will run against people like adam schiff. they will wind up running against people -- they are going to wind up running against senior democratic figures who played a destructive role in the 2016 elections. and as we look at the investigations on the hill, the senate judiciary committee and the intelligence committee there are senior democrats who have done very bad things. >> tucker: if i were a democrat

and want to talk economics i would be really mad at adam schiff. thanks for come on. it was very interesting. a huge percentage of what you hear on tv are the perils of russia. russia is our greatest threat. that is the democratic party and the american media have been telling us for a year number one is defending russia but is this true? let's play a game and you can decide. we'll describe actions by a hostile foreign power and you decide whether it's russia or china. the fbi director said this country uses students and professors at american universities as spies. the problem is so widespread that every field office is dealing with it, china. china has 350,000 students in the u.s. some of whom are intelligence agents. this country hacked the office of personnel management giving it access to personnel records

which allows the government to hack the fdic. russia? no, china. this -- a company from this country has taken over an entire u.s. territory. bloomberg reported how a state-sponsored gamble operation runs the island of saipan. china once again. question four, this country will overtake the u.s. as the world's largest economy, russia? that's hilarious. russia is third world compared to china. this country has killed tens of thousands of americans by manufacturing and exporting fentanyl. actually, china did that. finally, this country demands that american companies sensor their products, in order not to offend the corrupt oligarchy that runs their police state. american companies comply with these orders because they're afraid not to.

is it russia, putin? of course not. it's china. so tell us which country strikes you as a bigger threat to america? the former deputy of director for american sovereignty joins us tonight. >> thank you. >> tucker: a couple levels, china is a threat to the united states. china is a threat to our place in the world. but compared to russia is there really a comparison? >> you know, let's recall that a few years ago, senator john mccain said that russia is really just a gas station masquerading as a country. you don't have to take that literally but any sane person will look at china's economy and the trajectory of their rise and understand that china poses a much more serious long-term strategic threat to america's place in the world but it's we don't even have to look at that on a broad scale. we just need to look back 20 years. the last time we had a serious

foreign influence campaign scandal was when the democratic national committee was forced to give back nearly $3 million of foreign money and we know that -- >> tucker: russian money? >> and during that scandal there was chinese money involved. money from the communist government or people from the chinese government. there was money from elsewhere in asia, too. but that was real money that had to be given back. thus far we have not seen anything like that in the russia investigation. >> tucker: if you want to know who has power, do you ask who does nobody criticize? as a single person in hollywood or finance ever criticize china? does that tell you how beholden we are to china? >> some people have criticized china when it was popular to do

so. remember "seven years in pz tibet?" >> richard geer can't even get a movie role. >> hollywood likes to do things that are popular. it is popular to criticize donald trump and the legitimacy of his electoral victory. and people from the fake news media, what they really want to do is essentially to bring out anything that makes the current president look bad. >> tucker: i think it's okay to criticize the president. but if you care about the country you have to think soberly about what threats it faces. and if you tell the public that russia is the biggest threat, you are lying or stupid. >> or you could be both. >> tucker: you could be both. >> while we have been obsessing

over this russia investigation we have ignored some really weighty issues not just china but china being one of them. >> tucker: you're right. it's a really good point. there is a big cost. thank you. good to see you. purdue university says students should avoid using the word "man" ever. strike it from your lexicon. friends, colleagues,

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>> tucker: canadian prime minister and relentless apology machine justin trudeau is visiting india right now and sadly for him it's not going well. he has embarrassed his country by dressing up in indian national garb. recently, though, he also was mansplaining to canadians they should not use the word "mankind" purdue university tells students to avoid words like mailman and mankind. kathy, it's great to see you. >> good to see you. >> tucker: there is a basic irony here. you're lecturing us about sexism while you are sitting right now in manhattan.

>> we need to remain the city then. >> tucker: yeah. >> the big apple would be less offensive. i feel i'm sitting in the big apple not manhattan. >> why should the post office deliver mail? homonyms county. it's not about spelling but being gender inclusive. and male is offensive. >> they are saying that society have changed and times are changing and we don't want to be offensive in our language. and they're trying to be nonsexist and nonbiassed and taking the word "man out."" instead of mailman, it would be mail carrier. >> mail carrier still has mail in it. >> a-i-l.

you could come up with so many other terms. >> tucker: you might offend a dyslexic but it sounds the same and has the dreaded word that sends people shrieking for their safe spaces. >> "man" is the word trair tryi their trying to avoid. so they're trying to avoid the word "man." so if we can eliminate that word things would be much better and people would be less offended. >> tucker: what if you live in manchester, vermont. >> they might have to change the name of the city. purdue university sees that things need to be updated. and they rewrote their guides to make sure they are not offending groups of people. >> tucker: if something offends

somebody even if you have never met that person personally, you have to change it. doesn't that mean that a small group of super unhappy people get to control what people say and think? >> perhaps this is something that is offending a small group but the group is going to get larger and our language is dynamic. webster keeps adding new words and our language that needs to change. a term like manmade and mailman now needs to be changed. >> tucker: i get that. but the question for me is who gets to chandecide what changes what doesn't. i think the most offensive word is college professor. that con notes dumbness and misuse of power and tenure, right? and mediocrity. so maybe i would like to say that no one can use that word in my presence. could i do that? >> if you have a writing guide,

perhaps and you put that out there and people agree with you, then maybe that would fly. but purdue university found a group that agreed with them and the university backed them up and there you have it. they have a writing guide that will teach us how not to offend. >> tucker: it's one thing to bully the little rich kids that go to your school. >> this is indiana. this is the heart of america. >> tucker: of course. but if you are paying 60 grand for the fake diploma you get and you are not working, you have privilege by definition but it's it's easy to boss them around do you think they would have the guts to go to goldman sachs in new york and say change your name now or else? >> they probably wouldn't shop there because -- >> tucker: if they were shopping there they would -- it's a bank.

>> the name man is adult male. and we need to change it. like woman has the word "man" in there. just call us a person. >> tucker: so gold person sachs? >> i think so. i'm less offended. >> tucker: i'll stop with this. this is angels on the head of a pin at this point. if you spelled man differently like maa -- like mailmaan would you -- >> we know the professions usually were male dominates and they changed. so spelling it definitely doesn't apply. we're trying to say this profession now applies for men and women or persons. all people. no man is needed. >> tucker: isn't there a man in the word woman in. >> call me a person. i'd be less offended.

no need for woman. >> tucker: the revolution always eats itself. thank you for that guided tour of the looneyer regions. the left loves the great outdoors. why do they want to bulldoze it to build windmills that make foreigners millions while destroying rural america? good question, we'll answer it next. from farm, to pot, to jar, to table. and serve with confidence that it's safe. this is the ibm blockchain, built for smarter business. built to run on the ibm cloud.

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>> tucker: wind farm >> tucker: wind farms are an icon of the environmental movement but could erecting huge turbines on the landscape be bad? chris o'neil has concerns of the effect of wind farms on the natural world in rural areas. he joins us. thanks for coming on. >> good to be here. >> tucker: i think most people who love the outdoors are in favor of clean energy.

why should people who love the outdoors be concerned about wind farms? >> well, what people usually start out seeing is a big, majestic piece of kinetic energy that is as big as a 747 and they say, wow, that's majestic. >> tucker: yes. >> that's wonderful. we're saving the planet. but once they put some numbers behind what they see and start to quantify the impacts and the benefits, they tend to take a different view and these majestic turbines become a lot less tolerable to look at. >> tucker: and they have environmental effect. some of which we don't understand. they kill a lot of birds but they enrich a number of big companies not all of them based here that take advantage of our, in effect subsidies to get rich. who is making the money from these things? >> they are largely hedge fund

investors and institutional investors, many of whom are offshore and overseas. and they are people who tend to speculate. god love berkshire hathaway. these wind farms don't make any sense at all the only reason we do them is for the production tax credit which is a fall subsidy. >> tucker: is rest of us are paying for warren buffett to get richer. the concerns i have about these. i like the idea. and i think most people like the idea. but the companies come into rural areas and pay off the town government and in exchange people get one in their backyard. and do those people have any recourse? do they have a say in this at all? >> it varies state to state. maine has set up a law now for ten years that makes it almost impossible for citizens or citizen groups to stand in the

way of a permit for one of these wind applications. and they could be very big. the footprint for a typical wind energy project tends to be anywhere from six to 20 miles across. and they go across some ridge lines that maine has for centuries valued a lot. >> tucker: right. so warren buffett can get richer. you get one in your backyard, killing all the birds and driving you crazy with the noise and you can't do anything about it? >> you can do very little. and again, the state of maine started out ten years ago with stars in its eyes, said we need to get our boys home from iraq. we need to get off of oil. we need to save the planet. and what turned out to be the fact of the matter was that wind energy produces electricity. and we don't use oil for electricity. anything we do with wind energy

here in america has nothing to do with our conflagrations in the middle east. and the amount that we can move the needle on co-2 using wind energy is demin must. if co-2 is a problem and i don't want to wade into gun rights, reproductive rights or climate change but if it is a problem, wind energy does not solve it. >> solar is promising but the tax code encourages hedge funds to get rich while they ruin your yard. thank you for standing up to that. i appreciate it. planned parenthood is launching a -- what's their plan? that's next. maybe you could trust you won't be next to a loud eater. (eating potato chips loudly)

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♪ ♪ >> tucker: planned parenthood wants america to start having more >> tucker: planned participanthood wants americans to have more abortions as soon as possible. the more the better. the country's largest abortion company aims to make abortion easier to get all over the country. in missouri they want a 72-hour waiting period repealed if you want one right now. in maine they want to allow nurse practitioners to give abortion pills. that is two of a dozen laws that planned parenthood is pushing. leila, thanks for coming on. the idea is there is a bunch of initiatives across the country but it's the idea is more abortion means more happiness.

is that the position? >> yes, more abortion is somehow better for women and they are claiming this word "abortion access." it's really abortion pressure. it's only choice of abortion. planned parenthood is not expanding access to pregnancy resources, parenting support, adoption referral; or support. they are focused on abortion for all nine months for any woman anywhere. and that reveals how out of touch they are with most women and most americans. >> tucker: that's not just your opinion as a professional pro-lifer. most people don't agree with that. they are not on your side necessarily but not on the side of planned parenthood. 20 years ago the abortion people had to say we are not for it but it's there if you need it.

now they're saying, more abortion is good. that's a big change, isn't it? >> two-thirds of americans according to gallup polling want restrictions on abortions and some want restrictions in the second and third trimester. they want forms of insuring that women have other options. this is showing that planned parenthood is not in touch with where the country is. it's also troubling to see how this plays out. for example in ohio right now planned parenthood is protecting downs syndrome babies and they are suing the health department in ohio because they want to be able to abort because of downs syndrome or other prenatal diagnoses. this is saying that we don't value disabled children in the womb. lucas warren was a down syndrome baby and named gerber baby 2018.

plann plann planned parenthood is desperate. they know the president and many in the house and senate have said they would stop funding planned parenthood. the fbi has been investigating them. they are very concerned and trying to -- this is a feeble attempt to push back and put their stake in the ground. but again i think it's not going to go over well and this is going to raise up more people to oppose them than support them. >> tucker: just really quick. planned parenthood which supports sex selective abortions gets half a billion dollars a year in our money and a lot of republicans support that. how much money do you get in federal subsidies a year? >> we don't receive any. we are a non-profit.

>> tucker: they get half a billion and you get none. just wanted to be clear on that. leila thank you for joining us tonight. >> thanks, tucker. >> tucker: we'll be back with an announcement you will not want to miss, so don't. ♪ ♪ build and run apps anywhere you like, while keeping your competitors at bay. the ibm cloud. the cloud for smarter business. we are the tv doctors of america, and we may not know much about medicine, but we know a lot about drama. from scandalous romance, to ridiculous plot twists. (gasping) son? dad! we also know you can avoid drama

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you may be at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia, that can take you out of the game for weeks, even if you're healthy. pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious bacterial lung disease that in severe cases can lead to hospitalization. it may hit quickly, without warning, causing you to miss out on the things you enjoy most. prevnar 13® is not a treatment for pneumococcal pneumonia... it's a vaccine you can get to help protect against it. prevnar 13® is approved for adults to help prevent infections from 13 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. you should not receive prevnar 13® if you have had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients. if you have a weakened immune system, you may have a lower response to the vaccine.

the most common side effects were pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, limited arm movement, fatigue, headache, muscle pain, joint pain, less appetite, vomiting, fever, chills, and rash. help protect yourself against pneumococcal pneumonia. ask your doctor or pharmacist about prevnar 13®.

♪ >> tucker: there was a lot going on in the news tod >> tucker: there was a lot going on in the news today. so much that we couldn't fit in everything we wanted to. andrew sullivan wrote a piece on the opioid epidemic in the new yorker magazine. this piece is something you've got to see. we have uploaded our take on this article to our facebook page at tucker carlson tonight. check it out if you want. and like the page while you're there too. whatever that means. that's about it for us tonight. tune in every night at 8:00 for the show that is the sworn enemy

of -- have a terrific weekend. we'll be back on monday at 8:00 p.m. good night from washington. ♪ ♪ >> welcome to the special edition of hanni >> sean: welcome to this special edition of "hannity," the trump agenda. trump delivered a rousing speech. tonight we have the highlights and reaction to all of this. we'll check in with judge jeanine pirro but we start with the plan to protect american schools and students following the tragedy in florida. let's take a look. >> it's time to make our schools a much harder target for attackers. we don't want them in our schools. we don't want them. when we