by snow. we're next. ready? >> we just had round one. bring it on. it's still winter. >> she's ready. thanks for joining us. >> "outnumbered" starts right now. we're a week away from a special election where president trump has put his name on the line for a candidate and which many see as a bellweather for the 2018 mid-terms either way, either party. republican rick sakone facing off against connor lamb. recent polling shows them in a dead heat. this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here with us, katie pavlich. co-host of "after the bell", melissa francis. for the first time on "outnumbered," the former director of strategic communications for hillary clinton, adrian elrod. also joining us, former chief of staff to senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, josh holmes is

here. he's outnumbered. good to have you here. >> great to be here. >> look at you. you wore a hankie. a week from today, voters in pennsylvania will decide which candidate to send to washington. many see the race as an early indicationer for what the two expect in the mid-terms. recent polling shows them tied. the district went overwhelming for president trump in 2016. both have military experience and high right it in their ads. >> as a father of military, i understand what it means to send young people to battle. right now america needs expert with real experience. lives are on the line. >> what is missing is a thank you to the people that serve every day in our schools, and

our hospitals, on our streets and construction sites. it helps us remember who to say thank you to and it helps us remember that service is the rent we pay for living. >> to let you know this is a big deal, joe biden is headed to western pennsylvania to campaign on lamb's behalf. president trump is going saturday and he's already endorsed rick saccone. josh? >> every special election has unique circumstances. not all of them are belweathers of what is to come. we saw some examples in the virginia election earlier this year. we saw it again in alabama. i suspect we'll see in pennsylvania with a lot of democrats that are motivated to vote. what is interesting from my perspective about this race, the democrat is actually running against his own party. he's cut an ad saying that he's

against everything that nancy pelosi stands for. so he's trying to work within the confines of a conservative district to suggest that a republican light would be more advantageous to his candidacy. we'll see. >> you put that kindly. adrian, he said he wouldn't even vote for nancy pelosi and he's a democrat. >> yeah. first of all, this race shouldn't be competitive. trump carried this district by 20 points in just a year and four months ago when he was running for the presidency. but look, this is about -- this is turning to what is consider to be a bellweather state. i worked for the cycle when the democrats took over the house. and many were running against nancy pelosi. you have to show your independence. >> so they didn't like her either then? >> no. and i think we would -- we have seen this on the republican side as well. >> you know what is interesting

about what adrian is saying, that's how long apparently some within the democratic party that thought that they needed change. barack obama said they needed new car smell. he was talking about hillary clinton. what does that say? >> the wanting change in the democratic party started when barack obama came out of nowhere to beat hillary clinton in 2008. it's been a long time coming for nancy pelosi. she's been able to hold on to power because she has the purse strings. to say this district is something that should be going to republican isn't actually right. there's more registered democrat voters in this district than they are republicans. as josh already said, democrats are very motivated to come out and vote. the other thing, too, that i find interesting is this democratic candidate, connor lamb, is not far left as we've seen the democratic party go. he's anti-establishment. but he's not far left in the sense of the anti-police message that we saw in that ad. stand up for the police. he's moderate when it comes to issues and represents the dying blue dog democrat.

it's going to be difficult -- >> and that's what struck me as well about this race. that those that are running against nancy pelosi from the democrats are usually coming from the left. it's interesting to me that, you know, so many places she and dianne feinstein are not considered radical enough any longer and being thrown overboard for that reason. when i saw these candidates come out and how similar they are in a lot of ways than you would see in other districts, it struck me that wow, he's attacking nancy pelosi from the right. is that something that that is successful, what does that mean going forward? >> we'll see. going back to katie's point. he's an independent candidate. he's running -- >> he's a democrat. >> he's a democrat but -- >> he may be so far right that he feels like an independent to you. but he's a democrat. >> but he's running somewhat independent of the national party, which is very important in districts like this, and secondly, he is running on his own platform and on his own

message. this shows the importance of recruitment in so many districts. it's going back to the 06 cycle. we recruited candidates like heath shuler and pro life. >> and let this be a lesson to the voters. as much has this particular candidate would love to have everybody convinced they're not going to go in there and support pelosi by electing him, it takes them one step closing to putting her closer -- >> when you talk about, okay, he's going to run separate from the national, i would assume that's because democrats are doing a bad job at fund-raising right now. you guys are struggling on a national level. so you take the politics back local. republicans are not struggling as much. or at all the you look nationally, they're bringing it in. >> they're winning there. >> there's an enthusiasm gap any time a president and a new majority come into office. the last 150 years, only twice

has a majority party not lost seats in the house in their first mid-term. that historical trend probably holds. the last time it didn't hold is after 9-11, which the environment was much different. so there are challenges for republicans here, no doubt about it. >> the race that we're not paying attention to is the 2020 race between joe biden potentially and president trump. they're both going to be in pennsylvania campaigning. >> great point. >> moving on. looks like hillary clinton is looming over democrats attempts to take back congress. two former clinton allies, cabinet secretaries under bill clinton say they will run for seats of retiring republicans. former health and human services donna shalala that ran a clinton foundation filed paperwork for the house seat held by a republican from florida. and former congressman, mike espy says he has a strong

intention to run for thad cochran's senate seat. so adrian, is it a good look for someone who was running the clinton foundation to be trying to run for congress giving all the baggage that hillary had in her campaign with the foundation? >> of course. ultimately it's number 1 not exactly fair to really classify these two people as clinton surrogates. they are, but they have careers that are completely independent from working for secretary clinton, working for president clinton in the administration. mike espy comes from a huge family. he's well-known in that area. i'm not entirely convinced the democrats can win in mississippi. we haven't seen that happen since 1982 when hailey barber was defeated in mississippi, which is really hard to imagine. and then donna shalala has a career that is independent and done amazing work separate from her work in the administration,

which was also fantastic. >> and to nail that message home, when republicans go after her for the clinton foundation connection. >> they may but i think she will stand, again -- we can litigate the clinton foundation all day long. i'm proud of the work that the clinton foundation has done. she's got a lot to run on in terms of the strong record there. but donna shalala has had a completely incredible career separate from the foundation. >> i think it also goes to show the clintonistas can't give up. they're all trying to figure out how to get back on board. this race is interesting in mississippi for one reason. republicans have the capability here of doing another roy moore episode. you have chris mcdaniel. i affectionately call him mississippi roy moore. >> accurate. >> but he's right now filed to run against in a primary senator

roger wicker, a conservative senator from mississippi and doing a great job what he said after the retirement of thad cochran, if this is an easier race for me, i may switch. i may get in against somebody else that the governor would appoint. the problem is, the race is a run-off. if you have two or three republicans in there to split the republican vote against somebody like mike espy who will unify a democratic vote, i'll be darn how to lose a state like mississippi. >> that's an interesting point. >> to the larger question of what is going on, i was taking to brewster kell who said the power of personalities on both sides. you have bernie sanders and president trump out there as really unlikely characters to lead their party and to have that much support behind them. it shows you again that you

can't run against something successfully. there has to be a dynamic person in front. perhaps less so in the local races where there's a few choices and you're talking about battling back against the larger scene. in terms of democrats going forward, i mean obviously this goes for both parties. republicans had this party forever. you need that magnetic personality out front who is there to inspire people. that's the problem that they've always had. >> the nail on the head for the book that hillary clinton wrote, "what happened?" >> still don't know. >> if you peel away the politics and the fact that the dnc was -- if you put it all aside, you have the dynamic personality with bernie sanders against someone that i've even heard democrats describe as not as exciting to be kind about that. speaks to the issue of post trump. whether it's a devil term for him or not what will republicans do? he's a dynamic personality.

>> i want to ask you though. republicans have a problem with a number of house members retiring early. getting out of these districts that hillary clinton won or maybe they see will be flipped to blue in the mid-terms. they have a problem on their hands when it comes to getting voters to turn out what do you think will happen? >> extremely daunting statistics when it comes to an incumbent party in the first mid-term on retirements. it's like 90 plus percent of the seats flip. that is a huge concern for house republicans. they're busy trying to rectify that work on the outside by congressional leadership. i think they'll be in a good shape to defend a lot of seats but the statistics are not kind. >> you talk about the brain trust. the openings on committees, not that there's a lot of talent coming forth but the talent doesn't have the same amount of experience that the exiting members. have. >> that's right. >> speaking of hillary clinton, a former campaign insider is now

pointing the finger at president obama saying he dropped the ball when it came to stopping russia from meddling in the election. why she says clinton world is so frustrated. the white house pushing back after a series of stunning interviews with a former trump campaign aide who is now under the spotlight of special counsel robert mueller. sam nunberg changing his tune. what he's saying now and the white house says they're not concerned. >> i can't explain it. they have something. i have a feeling he did something. i drive. it's fine. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. and i don't share it with mom! right, mom? righttt. safe driving bonus checks. only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it.

>> former trump campaign aide sam nunberg now saying he will cooperate with robert mueller's russia probe after vowing to defy a subpoena he received from the special counsel. he also said this yesterday regarding a feeling that he took away from a previous interview he had with mueller's team. >> i know you have said that you do think that they have something on donald trump. >> yeah. i don't know what it is. >> from the interview. but you're confident in that. what made you feel that way? >> i can't explain it unless you're in there. i can't explain it. but they have something. i have a feeling that he did

something. >> oh, boy. the white house yesterday pushed back on any claims that nunberg could have knowledge of potential trump misconduct. doug mckelway is live at the white house with the details. doug? >> there was perhaps some more revealing sound bite from san nunberg on the very same show spoken just moments later which helps to shed some light on why he went about what are some are calling an unhinged tirade over the course of six hours yesterday. here it is. >> we talked earlier about what? people in the white house were saying about you. talking about whether you were drinking or on drugs or whatever had happened today. talking to you i have smelled alcohol on your breath. >> i've not had a drink. >> let me give you the question. see if you answer that. you haven't had a drink today? >> my answer is no, i have not. >> anything >> >> no?

>> no. besides my meds. >> nunberg was referring to the anti-depressant medication. it's a well known fact that anti-depressant medications can heighten the effects of alcohol. among the things he spouted off is that candidate trump was aware of the trump tower meeting between trump jr. and a group of russians in 2016. he alleged this. >> carter page? never met the guy in my life. never met him. >> you think carter page has criminal exposure? >> i think carter page colluded with the russians. i've told you that before. i think he colluded with the russians. >> and whatever caused nunberg to vent this way, the growing legal consensus is that he made a terrible, terrible mistake by doing so. a terrible legal mistake by promising not to cooperate with mueller's subpoena and by saying that it was funny if miller would put me in jail.

no wonder today he made an abrupt about face promising to cooperate with mueller. >> the fact is, if nunberg does not comply, i have no doubt that bob mueller will put him in jail, period. i think that if mueller allowed nunberg to defy the subpoena, it would send a message to the world that it's okay to defy bob mueller and not cooperate. >> jail cells are not so funny when you appear from the inside of one looking from the outside. the white house has not commented on his comments after it all wrapped up in the early stages of the white house press conference. and charlie gasparino tweeted in the last hour, this is important, he said just spoke with nunberg. he said he's fully cooperating with mueller's team and he expected to get treatment following his grand jury appearance friday. that explain as lot. why did so many media outlets cover this as his unhinged

nature manifested itself and the evening wore on. >> thanks, doug. josh, i'll start with you. it's hard to watch. i want to emphasize what he said to charlie gasparino as charlie is tweeting from fox business, that he's going to seek treatment. what do you take away -- other than the painful nature of watching that, what do you take away from it about what is going on with the investigation going forward? it does make it hard to sort through what is meaningful within what he says. >> yeah, i don't know that we can derive a lot from the investigation. we have no idea where sam nunberg is a player here. look, in general rule, it's not a great sign that the host is asking if you're drunk. that's the way he appeared all day yesterday. whatever questions that bob mueller had, it couldn't have had any more than seven hours of

cable television that he did yesterday, which was not a legal problem, but you know, starting to border on ethical issues in our ability to put somebody on air like that all day. he was clearly out of his mind. he was clearly making allegations that he couldn't substantiate. i think at some level we have a responsibility -- >> that's true. he said a lot of things that are pertinent to the president of the united states. i don't know -- >> but he has absolutely zero reputation for accuracy in his career, this is somebody that journalists won't quote on the record. >> i agree with josh. i don't know how credible we can take sam. i think he was only working on the campaign five, six months? but he did make some insinuations that, you know, he doesn't want his e-mails released because he and roger stone were trash talking people and he thinks that trump was involved in a level of

collusion. so ultimately this is bob mueller that will look into this and make some sort of determination as to what his effect was and what information he knows about the campaign. >> harris? >> breaking news now. it has to do with adviser to the president, kellyanne conway. i'm going to look down. because this is purporting, coming from the office of the special counsel, the u.s. office of the special counsel, the osc, has found two violations by kellyanne conway of the hatch act. that is using your position in government to advocate for or against a senate candidate, a house candidate, someone holding a position or running for office. there's two instances according to the osc. they say one was kellyanne conway advocating against a senate candidate and that would be the democrat doug jones. you remember the special election in alabama. the second instance is her

advocating for a candidate and that would be roy moore in the same special election in alabama. two different instances. and what this means, katie, we're going through this, i want to explain, the hatch act according to this record allows federal employees to express their views about candidates and political issues as private citizens. we know that. it restricts employees from using their official government positions for partisan political purposes including by trying to influence partisan elections. >> so the first interview she did was on this network with "fox and friends." the second interview where she acted in her official capacity discussing the roy moore versus doug jones election in alabama happened on another network. the u.s. office of special counsel is not what robert mueller is running, this is an office that oversees ethics violations, a series of ethics

groups, catch dog groups when she made these statements filed complaints with the osc. now that they have filed her in violation, they will refer her for disciplinary action to the president. it's up to president trump to determine if she will face consequences for that. >> we knew this was happening. that they were looking at these two instances. we didn't know what the outcome would be. we didn't know that they would refer this to the president of the united states. what does this mean for the white house? >> i think there's a lot of mitigating circumstances. what we know in the course of an interview, it's a dynamic situation. you're liable to be asked about anything. she was asked about a partisan election. she responded the same way that president trump would have reresponded. it a mitigating circumstance here. >> it's an interesting observation, too. if you are saying what the president would also say, then i'm sure americans might be watching and wondering, how is there any difference? >> look, you have to look at

this in terms of what the spirit of the hatch act here. is this using your government after to get somebody elected or somebody defeated or is this an interview where you're advocating for the same position of the president of the united states. i would argue that if what they have here will two interviews, that's thin rule. >> i see you nodding, adrian. >> the hatch act is sometimes kind -- it's a gray act in so many respects. the real question is, was she doing something on taxpayer payroll. was she doing something while she was getting paid by federal taxpayer dollars. so the question is, was she doing this in her personal time or in her personal capacity or was she doing this on government time. if she was doing this on government time, that is where red flags are raised. >> how do you know the difference? everybody is 24/7 right now. now that you just lost another communications director, everybody is working 24/7. so the fair question is, when does -- when do those things start and begin?

>> i go over this every time a candidate stumps for another candidate. >> when you're a staff member and you have the resources of the government, there's dark lines about not using resources of the government in order to advocate for a partisan election. an interview is a different thing. you can be asked about all kinds of different circumstances. you can't control that. we don't script questions -- >> you can decline to answer. >> the osc is looking at her answer and whether -- they say based on the recommendations. she was advocating in her official capacity as an adviser to the president for roy moore over his opponent in alabama. >> new developments on the top fbi agent fired from robert mueller's investigation. what sources tell us peter strzok new about a possible breach to hillary clinton's server and what it means -- may mean that he apparently did nothing about it. ♪

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>> we come in with this fox news alert. the doj inspector general's report in the clinton e-mail investigation could be released at any time now. sources telling fox news one of the lead agents on that investigation, peter strzok, was told about an irregularity with clinton's e-mail server in 2016. it suggests a possible security breach. reportedly strzok never followed up on it. this is critical. because strzok was also involved in editing the memo delivered by former fbi director james comey exonerating hillary clinton in the case. the initial draft of that memo said that it was "reasonably likely that hostile actors had

hacked clinton's server." that was later changed to say "it's possible that that happened." here's nine director comey reading the memo to the american public. >> she also used her personal e-mail extensively outside the united states, including sending and receiving work-related e-mails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries. we said its possible that hostile actors gained access to her personal account. >> it's a down grade there. >> no question. of all the investigations going on, house investigations, senate investigations, bob mueller, all kinds of things happening here. perhaps the most significant investigation of them all is the one we hear least about. what it is going to get at the internal macinations at doj and

what happened. so we can understand why the clinton investigation proceeded the way it did and how that led up to the russia investigation and everything else. i think this is hugely important. all of this stuff is critical information. >> what do you think it points to? >> i mean, look, where there's smoke there's fire. you look at this, strzok has been in the middle of all kinds of problems. every time it augers towards his pointing the other direction every time hillary clinton is in trouble here and him looking towards the trump campaign as a source of a lot of ill will. i don't know that that is -- seems like he's got his thumb on the scale. >> there's a constant seesawing back and forth and it could make you sick. we either care about russian meddling and we care about, you know, cyber espionage or we don't. in this case, they're saying it's possible when in fact the statement should have said there's evidence that it's likely. it's not evidence that is they

saw the data, they saw something unusual in it that indicated hacking. that doesn't prove it conclusively or who it was as far as i know. maybe it does. they really changed the language and it kind of -- it strikes me as a point that you made before where it's president obama said that it's ludicrous to think that the russians could influence the election. and then all of a sudden the right doesn't care about influencing the election. on every side, weaving back and forth. we care about this stuff or we don't. >> there's a down grading and upgrading, moving over of a lot of language. we know it was an investigation to a matter. we've seen the verbal gymnastics. at the end of the day, you look at a presidential candidate back then, adrian, for your political party. these were problematic situations now that have started to kind of come out. where does that put hillary clinton's role in the party as she gets ready to help out in the mid-terms? >> she's always going to have a

major role in the party and be campaigning -- >> is that okay? >> absolutely. >> you're okay with that? >> you have to remember, she's -- >> we're okay with it too, by the way. >> the republicans like this, too. >> come on back. >> three middle more votes than president trump. but going back to this investigation. i'm glad you framed what you did the way you did. it's important no matter if you're a democrat or republican to get to the bottom of what happened. for example, what if the russians decided we don't want president trump -- >> you think their care about russian meddling if it was you guys? >> absolutely. >> you might want to call some people. let them know. >> obviously for myself, yes. absolutely. >> what about the accountability for hillary clinton for giving away the game? let's not forget that she had top secret classified information on her server, including information about human sources on the ground, which mean those sources had their lives put in danger because hillary clinton went to

foreign countries where they have heavy hacking abilities that are adversaries to the united states and decided to send e-mails on her personal server to get away without having any kind of oversight from the american people and from congress. she gave the russians -- they don't have to hack anything. she put it out there, classified information about what we did at the state department on a silver platter for them. she's the one that is not held accountable and the fbi is giving her a pass saying her server maybe probably was hacked. we're not going to hold her accountable for selling out -- >> by the way -- >> whoa, whoa. are you saying that she lost the election because of her own behavior? >> no. i'm saying james comey reopening the investigation ten days before the election, which by the way this particular agent strzok, that we're talking about, is the one that said we should -- >> so you agree with firing james comey or is that something that is bad because trump did it? >> i have a lot of mixed feelings about james comey. >> but he lost you the election. shouldn't you want him to be

fired? >> no. i think he did a good job as fib director in some contexts. him reopening the investigation is what caused -- >> you have made josh holmes giggle. >> i'm going to sit back and relax and enjoy the show. perfect. >> as you go back and forth. one thing for sure, your candidate didn't win. now we're finding out a lot. that would, i imagine, come out in i way. >> let's see what the report says. >> okay. >> a former hillary clinton campaign surrogate is pointing the finger at then president obama for not doing enough to stop the russian meddling. obama's former right-hand man said it's the republicans fault. it's the blame game. liberty mutual saved us

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>> new questions over the obama administration's response to russian meddling in the 2016 election. a former hillary clinton surrogate slamming president obama for not taking enough action. >> there's no question that things were going on that meddling was going on. it was a frustration for all of us close to the clinton campaign close to the end and after the election why the president didn't move -- president obama move more quickly and aggressively. >> a day earlier, dennis mcdonough blamed mitch mcconnell for a weak response on russia. >> the president asked four leaders in a bipartisan meeting in an oval office to join him in asking the states to work with us on this question. it was dramatically watered down. you can ask harry reid and nancy pelosi. >> and watered down on the

insistence of mitch mcconnell? >> yes. >> josh, is the russian meddling all because your boss refused to send a mean letter to the russians? >> this is the thing that people should have a genuine outrage about. what we found out in the last couple weeks is not only did the obama administration know about the russian attempts to infiltrate our elections, they knew about it since 2014. their response that they're talking about that is watered down is a bipartisan letter a month before the election in 2016. so for over two years they did absolutely nothing. they thought it was adequate at the end of an election cycle to put out a letter on paper that somehow that would make vladimir putin and all the russians walk away from our election and say never mind, that is a sternly-worded letter, sir. we can't do it. the idea that anybody, mitch mcconnell or anybody else, had something to do with watering down their response, how much more watered down can you get than a congressional letter?

>> adrian, didn't president obama have an obligation to the country to warn all voters, democrats and republicans of what democrats have been calling for a year, a serious meddling in the election? >> absolutely. i will joined a -- join adam schiff and others to say this happened and we're trying to put the wheels and measures in place to make sure that something like this never happens again. what matters the most now, we have a president that does not care about getting to the bottom of this. >> that is not true. >> he focuses on collusion. we have $120 million in appropriated funds -- >> everybody is focused on collusion because of robert mueller. president does want the elections to be protected. look at the senate intel.

they're talking with these members so they can get their arms and the investigation that they have postured. many members have said they want to get beyond that so they can also protect what's coming up. here's my question for you. with the obama administration, i notice how neatly you went from the president almost in a word, gave him no responsibility in that sentence and put it on the intelligence community. look, he was getting that information, not -- why not spearhead that? this is a president that said that russia didn't matter when he was a candidate against mitt romney. he's the guy that had a special look at russia. was it incompetence or short-sightedness like calling isis the jv team? what led him to not deal with russian meddling on his watch? >> i don't know. i was on the campaign side. i wasn't in the administration. >> it's a question that deserves an answer. >> definitely. >> one thing to take away from this larger conversation, the

point was to sow discourse. the point -- i'm sure the russians would have loved to get in the ballot box and affect the election. but the thing is to pit us against each other. it's something to think about. we turn to each other and claw each other's eyes out. this was their intention and they were successful. >> they were. >> dreamers targeting democrats. they're blocking the entrance to the dnc headquarters amid the stalemate. we'll have more after the break. patrick woke up with back pain.

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>> breaking news now. we have information about the office of special counsel, the u.s. office of special counsel which says they have looked and found evidence that kellyanne conway, special adviser to the president, violated the hatch act. deputy white house press secretary hogan gidley has just said this. kellyanne conway did not advocate for or against the election of any particular candidate. she simply expressed the president's obvious position that he has people in the house

and senate that support his agenda. in fact, kellyann's statements show she supplied with the hatch act at she twice declined to respond to the host's invitation to encourage alabamas to vote for the republican. so there's two instances. one was against the democrat running in the office, one was for the republican, roy moore. now the white house's official position, no, that's not how it happened. as the story cooks along, we'll have more to it. right now that's the official word from the white house. melissa? >> dozens of people arrested on capitol hill because of a stalemate over daca. while activisted pointed plenty of blame at republicans,

protester blocks the entrance of the dnc warning democrats too will face backlash over the current inaction. president trump tweeting "president obama had eight years to fix this problem and didn't. i'm waiting for the dems. they're running for the hills." and meantime, sarah sanders blaming congress in their failure to act. joe manchin today said democrats wanted a deal and the president could push this across the finish line if he wanted. >> i think that everyone stepped to the plate. the president has unusual power. unusual power with his base and also with a lot of people in the senate and in the house over on the other side that would follow if -- with his cover that he would give them. i'm hoping he steps forward on that. >> this is what i don't understand. the president kicked off his negotiation the way he does everything. he begins with an outrageous

position. he said he would give amnesty to 1.8 million dreamers which is twice or three times which president obama said and then sent it off from there. it was like democrats didn't take yes for an answer. how did that not move forward? >> you know, first of all, president trump could have renewed the executive order -- >> it's unconstitutional. >> you're right. it doesn't solve it. >> so what happened with this? >> with this, again, you have to remember, guys, republicans control the house, senate and the white house. the fact that daca has not moved forward is largely the republican's fault. i do agree with -- >> the democrats shut down the government over this issue. >> in exchange for a week-long debate where they were allowed to have any kind of discussion that they wanted to tray to get to an end goal. the president met them far more than halfway. in exchange, he got democrats saying no, i think we'll do all

or nothing. i'm not -- >> it was more than all. that's what i don't get. 1.8 million is more than all. there's plenty of blame to go around. how was there no deal after the president set up that he would sign something that was way more than what democrats wanted? >> because they don't want -- they want the political issue. they don't want a solution. all of their -- you have heidi heitkamp and tammy -- >> why didn't you band together and get it done? >> it requires 60 votes. you know, president trump, the wall is a good idea. >> which democrats voted for. >> and you want meaningful immigration to make this a merit-based economy and they couldn't do it. >> and many know that there's always a few republicans in states where they might be in jeopardy that would have to vote a certain way. so they needed democrats to come along, not just to get to the 60 but also to give some cover to

those republicans maybe only a handful that might go another way. that's the way it always plays out. >> right. >> we have to go. more "outnumbered" in just a moment. hello, i'm an idaho potato farmer.

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right now, here's more harris. >> harris: we start with the big development in the north korea crisis. we go "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. kim jong-un telling south korean envoys that he's willing to begin talking with the united states on abandoning his nuclear weapons for security guarantees. south korea says the north made it clear during a rare two-day summit that they would have no reason to keep nuclear weapons if the military threat to the north was eliminated. if the statement can be corroborated by pyongyang, it would be the first time that kim has said something like this and could go a long way potentially in cooling off one of the world's hottest hot spots. president trump tweeted this. possible progress in talks being made for north korea. for the first time in years, a serious effort is made by all parties concerned. the world is watching and waiting. maybe false hope. the u.s.