tune in every saturday night. tune in on twitter judge jeanine. laura ingraham is live ♪ ♪ >> tucker: well, good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." if we have learned anything over the last year, it's pretty hard to accomplish things in washington. the republicans control the white house and the congress and after a full year no wall has been built and obamacare is still there. federal judges are part of the problem with that loss of executive orders have been shot down with bogus rulings. but the core problem is the structural one. the president is not an emperor. no president is. but that has not stopped mass delusions on the left that he has in fact a dictator. in fact yesterday hillary clinton suggested that president trump is on the verge of taking over this country somehow and destroying the constitution.

watch this. >> as someone who grew up in and barely escaped the holocaust my mother would say from time to time that it could happen here. what are your concerns about the stability of our democratic institutions and structures in these tumultuous moments? >> i worry about the degradation of institutions. i'm more worried about whether our constitution is going to be honored. so i'm hoping that the worst the question you asked me ruth would never get to that. it would require people turning up and voting in midterm elections. >> tucker: really worried about the constitution as try to invalidate the first two amendments to the bill of rights. there it is. he is a dictator. that's not a novel take on the left calling trump a

dictator. something of a religious ritual now, actually. >> we have a president with a strong authoritarian personality and what frightens me is not only his respect and adoration for tyrants all over the world, but his disrespect for democracy in our own country. >> we're getting more north korean every day in this country. >> there is nothing american about what donald trump did in pennsylvania. he goes out there and whips up like it's a mussolini rally and, yes, that's what i said. >> i said they must call for his impeachment. some people are saying well, we will vote in 2020. we cannot stand that. we cannot wait for that. >> yeah. >> it is too dangerous. >> tucker: who put all the dumb people on tv? [laughter] somehow despite being a dictator people feel perfectly free to criticize the president in public to massive cheers. nobody notices the. ethan is a radio host and frequent guest on our show. he joins us tonight. ethan, thanks for coming on.

i guess if you were a dictator, the first thing you would want to do is take away people's right to say what they think and take away their right to defend themselves. the first two amendments to the bill of rights is trump doing -- i'm sorry, his opponents on working on that invalidating and repealing those amendments. maybe this is transference, i'm guessing? >> well, i think the issue here though is he opened his campaign out like in a very authoritarian way. let's call somebody else a bad name. mexicans are rapists, right? so let's point out what is wrong with other people, focus on muslim ban. can't allow them into the country. that is an authoritarian move. reaching to the other, pointing to them and reaching into our dark places. i don't like that any bit. on the first amendment side he wants to strengthen defamation laws to make it easier to suit press. >> tucker: i would say the phrases you describe would fall under the heading of rudeness, being impolite. look, i'm not going to defend that i'm pink pailian. episcopalian.

they try to narrow the range of acceptable opinion and punish people who fall outside of it that is the left doing that, not the right. pardon me, that's true. two, they take away people's right to defend themselves. they double down on their monopoly on the use of force. they are the only ones with guns. the left is doing that, too. trump may be a lot of things. you don't like him, i get it the authoritarian tendencies are on the left. do you not see that? >> no. i mean, well, some on the extreme left i would actually agree with you on. no. absolutely not. anti-jewish crimes according to the adl went up 57% here in the united states last year under trump's watch in 2017 at a rate and number that hasn't been seen in a very long time. it's an alarming trait. >> tucker: i wonder where that's coming from though? i know you are sort at the vanguard of calling for increased muslim immigration into the country. taking a look across the ocean at europe where crimes against jews, anti-semitic

crime has risen dramatically in say paris. is that being led by right wingers or is it being led by muslim immigrants? >> you don't think any of the extreme right wing nationalists in places like germany and france have anything to do with any of that. >> tucker: maybe some. i don't know. maybe. let's be real. ask anybody. talk to any israeli who recently moved from france. i don't think they are mad at marie le pen. they are really upset about muslim immigration because the antisemitism is coming from muslims. given that we know that kind of beyond debate. why would you as somebody who is concerned about that be calling for more muslim immigration here? >> i haven't specifically called for more muslim immigration. what i have called for is a continuance of our legal immigration program and embracing those who are already here, tucker. i think it's important to include and involve people in our community and not set them apart and make them into the other which appeals to the shadow which is bad. we don't need to appeal to the dark side. >> tucker: i'm opposed to the shadow. i am. i'm also opposed to freudian

projection since we are getting keep into german psychiatrists. i think it's very striking that if you are concerned about government overreach and the election of a dictator and i actually am concerned. that i think all good americans are. the framers were concerned about it. that's the why they wrote the constitution the way they did. ought to be terrified of anybody who attacks your freedom to say what they think is true. what i find is striking is nobody on the left ever says anything as universities kick kids out. punishable people for having differing points of view. that's fascist stuff. why doesn't anybody ever mention that? >> two thing next time you are n san francisco listen to my show. i talk about that. i don't appreciate shuttle down free speech. we must in a democracy have a fair exchange of ideas. however, there are some thoughts and ideas that don't deserve to be aired. and you and i have a tendency to chose not to air

those. >> tucker: oh, they don't deserve to be aired. so you don't have the right. >> that's right. >> tucker: everything is cool unless people disagree with you in which case we have to punish them. sure, hold on. what i'm saying is the left is punishing people for saying what they think is true now. not everyone agrees with everyone else's opinion like to have free speech, you have to tolerate the views of people you disagree with. and the left no longer does. you don't see that as authoritarian? >> i do not agree with you that the left no longer does. i think that's a very small fringe element that tries to shut it down. >> tucker: google, facebook, twitter, biggest companies in america? bleeding boycotts against people's opinions you don't like? you don't see this as troubling? >> any time that we shut down free speech in an open and public place i'm absolutely on your side on that one. organizations have a place -- to keep a workplace friendly and open to all people. and if you are offending your person sitting next to you, that is something that hr has to deal with.

because we also have laws. >> tucker: h.r. that's where speech goes die. of course. thank you so much. good luck with your h.r. a professor of classic emeritus call state fresno he joins us tonight. professor, you spent a lot of time studying dictatorships and how they take power from the people and hold it to themselves and basically do what they will despite popular sentiment. what are the things that take share theships do first to prepare the way for totalitarian rule? >> one of the things that hillary clinton said in that speech is they destroy trust and transparency. that was quite ironic. she was introduced to the national scene in her late 30's by parlaying $1,000 investment in cattle future into $100,000 investment, which was a mockery of a whole transparent idea of investment. it was 4 trillion to 1 odds.

she didn't pay taxes. fast forward 40 years to, you know, travel gate, file gate, the rose law firm records. uranium one, the email. they all have one constant common denominator, tucker, that's a lack of transparency and feeling that she is exempt from equal application of the law. so it's kind of -- i don't know whether to laugh or cry. one of the ironies when she gave that speech, she got $25,000. had she given it two years ago or four years ago, she would have had 100 times that amount, as would her husband because they had something that people wanted. and that was influence to buy. and so now she doesn't have it and she is sort of bitter and she is shrill and angry. buff she is engaged in projection where she is the perceived sins of herself on to others. you made a good point. because every time a republican is in power, he is a nazi or brown shirt. when george w. bush was there in 2006, if you remember, al gore, george

soros, garrison keeler, linda ron stat. he was a fascist brown shirt. we had a movie how to kill him. we had a novel check point. suddenly he is out he doesn't have the reigns of power anymore. is he a sober, judicious never trumper. donald trump has inherited the same role. we have the same documentary about killing him. we have op-ed about john wilkes booth again. we have the nazi slur. and it's all based on the premise that exalted called noble means justifying any any -- any means of obtaining them. it's again and again and again. and i am not worried about donald trump until he weaponizes the irs in the manner of lois learner under the obama administration. if mike pompeo had 30,000 emails that he was destroying, i would be really worried that secretary of state or if h.r. mcmaster had ordered surveillance be unmasked and leaked from the nfc or

warped at the trump administration was trying to warp the fisa courts with anti-hillary hit piece i would be worried. so far it's been on the other side. >> tucker: yeah, that would be worrisome. >> it would be because it would be assault on institutions. >> tucker: honest enough to say it too if they ever do it? >> i hope i would, too. >> tucker: you would be. i know you would be. thank you for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. >> tucker: got news for you the wife of pulse nightclub shooter omar mateen has been acquitted. noor salman was charged with providing -- and obstruction of justice. the jury was not convinced of that the fbi used mateen's father as confidential source and lied about it after the shooting. we will learn more about that story and of course we will bring it to you as we do. very bad week for facebook. now it may be getting worse. may have given assistance to barack obama's 2012

campaign. doesn't sound like them, does it? we'll investigate live from washington on good friday. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ >> tucker: well, we learned this week that cnn executives are aciddous viewers of this show and of course we are flattered we know that because cnn has announced that actually it may not be a good idea to support foreign dictatorships. last week we telling you about cnn turk. a franchise repeated the political talking points of tuckery's authoritarian

anti-american islamist government. mr. erdogan in the picture right behind me now in a deal worth $900 million a major stake in cnn turk is about to be sold to conglomerate who has referred to head as boss. cnn and erdogan together. in a rare fit of conscious cnn may reconsider its consideration with anti-american foreign auto democrats since they have been caught. in a statement to fox the network said this quote we will be meeting with the new owners in due course to discuss the implications of the sale. if following those conversations we have any reason whatsoever to believe that journalistic integrity of the channel could be compromised by the new owners we will revoke the license. which is funny since cnn turk for years has been carrying water for the erdogan government even as it beat and killed protesters in the streets cnn has been carrying its water. showing at one point a penguin documentary rather than the repressive crack

down by the turkish secret police. anyway, we are glad cnn is watching the show. we welcome the development. in the future of course we encourage cnn to care about journalistic integrity before they are called out for backing dictators. well, facebook's disastrous week continuing to get even worse thanks to another scandal. in 2012 it turns out the company handed over user data to barack obama's presidential campaign. in doing so, may have violated the law. fox news it 24/7 headlines anchor bret larson has more on that. what do you know? >> hey, tucker. yeah, not a good week to be facebook basically. what we're finding out today is there are reports that in 2012 they may have just given user data to the barack obama campaign. there were reports in the daily mail former pepper that ran the campaign social media for him someone at facebook said we are giving this to you because we agree with you. of course, giving them that

information for free would be a violation of the federal campaign finance laws because that would be violation of rather direct or indirect giving of -- they are basically giving a campaign donation in that situation. and you can't do that in federal elections. for the president and for congress. then we are also learning today that hillary clinton's name coming up once again now connected to all the problems with facebook that the app. she was using during the 2016 campaign and they were encouraging people to connect with their friends. they may have been going through your contacts list and doing that illegally and taking the data of their users to encourage people to vote for hillary clinton to try and find people that they could persuade to be voters. not very good news for facebook all around. and this is all in light of the problems that they are having with the cambridge analytica story that we have been following for the past couple of weeks with the 50 million users and the data that was taken from them. and then this very, i think, damning piece of information

buzzfeed is reporting on, this a former facebook executive saying something about what their site does and how they connect people and he, in part, says about facebook anything that allows us to connect more people more often is de facto good. despite the fact that they had concerns that doing this could even allow someone to coordinate a terrorist attack or even expose someone to bullying. so, tucker, it is a bad week to be facebook. >> tucker: yeah. and it should be. i'm glad that other people are paying attention to this now and not just us. thank you for that. >> thanks, tucker. >> tucker: a former member of the federal election commission a senior legal fellow joins us tonight. thanks for coming on. >> sure. >> tucker: if it turns out that the obama campaign received this date that that would be inkind contribution, correct. >> it is very valuable data. former media director for the obama campaign said facebook actually came to their office and said well, we don't normally give this

data out but we're going to let you have it because we favor your campaign. that turns it into potentially illegal contribution. >> tucker: how would that not be illegal and not be a crime. >> if they made this data available to nibble who wants it, well then, of course, any campaign to get it but the fact that they specifically had rules against this, does make it an inkind contribution. contrast this with what they did with cambridge analytica, remember, cambridge analytica when they found out about this, they went to cambridge analytica and said you need to destroy this data. you're not supposed to have it. that tells you that in the one case they let the campaign have it. in another case they were saying well, no, you are not supposed to have this data. >> tucker: so facebook, but also google and twitter and apple, the big tech companies could easily throw an election and we wouldn't know it and so we should be terrified of this. i don't think we are terrified enough. but, what is the u.s.

congress, what are the appropriate agencies and the executive branch doing to make sure that these huge companies who have more power than any companies have ever had in human history are remaining transparent? i mean, we are certain this is not happening. what are we doing to assure us of that. >> in the case of the obama campaign potentially getting corporate contribution which sill legal, that ought to be investigated by the federal election commission where i used to be a commissioner because it's a potential violation of federal law. >> tucker: is it -- >> no idea where they are going to open up an investigation. potentially also the u.s. justice department could investigate it because if it was an intentional and knowing violation of the law, that takes it from being a civil violation to a criminal violation. so, both of those federal agencies have potential jurisdiction over. this so far, no one has said at any of those agencies that they are going to open up an investigation. that's what they ought to do though. >> tucker: yeah. well, if have lunch with any of your friends encourage them. >> i will. >> tucker: thank you very

much. facebook sudden only condition with a bill political effect and politics isn't the only way tech is hurting america. not by far. next week we are spending all week on a special series on what big tech is doing to you, your children, our culture, this country, our politics. it's changing all of those things. and we should know how and we are going to tell you how. well, the media scandalized when anonymous report suggested that the interior secretary ryan zinke may care more about competence than about diversity. did he commit a sin in hiring on the basis of ability? what sin? we will tell you next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hey, sir lose-a-lot! thou hast the patchy beard of a pre-pubescent squire! thy armor was forged by a feeble-fingered peasant woman... your mom!

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zinke of seeking to hire the best people for jobs at the interior department without regard to their appearance. that was the kyron. zinke angers by hiring the best. ridiculous. hired by zinke. but the left still reacted with horror. kristin clark lawyer for civil rights liberty under law. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> tucker: i know i can't speak for anyone else. when i saw that cnn report that ryan zinke was daring

to hire the best people, i thought what is this country coming to, hiring people on the basis of relevant criteria like experience or skill, commitment, i mean, that's just wrong. and i think you would agree with that. >> no. we want people who are qualified and experienced. specialty hymn of ou -- hymn ofr nation's federal agency. we also need to make sure that those agencies reflect the growing diversity of our country. i'm not just talking about racial diversity, i'm talking about gender diversity and ethnic diversity at every turn with this administration we have seen efforts to turn the clock back. we know that diversity is not a priority for this administration whether we are talking about cabinet level appointments or judicial appointments. this administration is one that has not placed a premium on diversity. >> tucker: what do you think of the nfl? do you like the nfl? >> that's a totally different context. >> tucker: oh, it is. but do the same standards

apply there? i mean guy they get a pass? this is a real question. why do they get a pass on the diversity thing in the nfl? is there a reason? >> well, when we look at the coaching ranks, there is a lot of work to do. >> tucker: i'm talking about the players. slow down. great, i'm on your side. but, the players, it's all male. it's disproportionately african-american. does that bother you? >> nfl is a sport. it's a male sport so i'm not surprised it's all male. >> tucker: does it bother you? why do they get a pass from the normal? their point is they hire the best. actually i think the nfl doesn't care what color you are. they just want the best players. is that offensive when you watch it? are you thinking i can't watch this, they are not following the diversity rules? >> what really bothers me is my taxpayer dollars, your taxpayer dollars going to support federal agencies that don't reflect the diversity of our country, tucker. >> tucker: what about when you fly on an airplane, do you think that airlines should apply the same diversity rules you are calling for here, that they

shouldn't take the people who score the highest on the pilot tests but that they should hire also on appearance, the way people look? >> every workplace. >> tucker: pilots and heart surges too. >> should hire the best but place a premium on diversity. >> tucker: which is more important the way that you look or what you are capable of doing? so when you are flying a plane, how important is it what you look like, your appearance? >> incredibly important. >> tucker: appearance is incredibly important. >> also important we place a premium on diversity. >> tucker: but diversity means appearance, what you look like. >> no, no, no. >> tucker: talking about the shallow possible criterion, literally your shade. that's what you are saying. why is that more important than talent. >> you know what matters, tucker. what matters is that your white daughters and my black sons can turn on that tv and see an administration that reflects the diversity of our country. gender diversity, racial diversity, ethnic diversity. >> tucker: really what matters to me is that the government is run by competent people and if they are all pacific islanders.

i don't care where they are from. i don't care what the they look like because i don't think that's the most important thing that's shallow and you are arguing it is. >> president trump appointees have been virtually all white and all male. we haven't seen anything this remarkable since the reagan years. and our country. >> tucker: you are just not getting anywhere with me. if you can argue one of them is doing a bad job i will agree with you. some of them are not that impressive i will be completely blunt with you. it has nothing to do with what they look like because again i'm not a shallow person. i don't judge people on their appearance just as i don't judge books on their covers. i try get deeper on that. why as a society we have decided the shallowest possible measure is the most important. do you ever stop and ask yourself that. >> diversity is one among a number of factors. >> tucker: doesn't sound like it. sounds like the most important thing. >> take into account when it appoints cabinet level positions all the way down. we want a federal government that reflects the diversity

of our country. gender and racial diversity. >> tucker: i want to be totally clear if you mean like diversity of skills. i'm totally with you. when you were little did you ever think you would be arguing to judge people primarily on how they look? >> you know, i'm talking about gender diversity. i'm talking about racial diversity, tucker. >> tucker: okay. those are outward signs. >> president trump's judicial nominees have been white male. >> tucker: are they bad? like you are speaking a foreign language to me. >> he knows nothing about how federal courts operate. >> tucker: that's a problem. look, i'm with you there. you shouldn't ever hire incompetent people. i don't care what they look like. kristen, thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> tucker: good to see you. >> good to see you. >> tucker: ryan zinke employed. another was not so fortunate. former speech writer says his life was destroyed by the media without a shred of evidence against him. he joins us with his story next. ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ >> tucker: in the past two years the media have adopted new principle if someone is connected to the current administration, that person can be targeted for destruction for any reason or no reason at all. and it's all virtuous because the president is evil. well, until last month, david sorensen was a speech writer in the white house and "the washington post" accused him of domestic violence. why did they do this? because of the word of his ex-wife. sorenson lost his job. he said the post had no evidence that he ever did anything wrong. the post had no court records, no police report. no evidence, no pictures, nothing. and now his life has been destroyed. david sorenson joins us tonight with his story. david, i want to say at the outset that we have never met. i have never spoken to you in my life before. this i don't know anything about your marriage and i don't even know your ex-wife's name. what struck me about this story, normally i would never get involved in anything like this because i know these things tend to be

really complicated. what struck me about this story was you said the post had literally no evidence, no actual evidence you had done anything wrong? >> that's right, tucker. first of all these accusations are completely false and fab brie indicated. i have never been violent with any woman in my entire life. not the way i was raised. the post nonetheless on their ongoing war against president trump decided to publish a story based on my ex-wife's word alone that i was physically violent during our marriage. and they had no evidence. i have never had a police report against me for violence. i have never had a restraining order against me and three of her friends even came out. people i haven't spoken with in years and said that she was -- had a history of instability and dishun necessary city and they witnessed her being violent against me. it's just unbelievable. >> tucker: was she violent against you. >> she was, actually. i sent the post and every other media outlet that

asked a 13-page document as soon as i was accused full of ite text message and photo violent against knee. never brought this up in the divorce which i initiated by the way. simply nothing but her word to go on. it's shameful on the post's part. >> tucker: you say you had documentary evidence that she was the perpetrator of violence. did the post run that evidence? >> not that i'm aware of, no not that i recall. she actually admitted to it in text messages and admitted to it in subsequent interviews with the media. i actually had a reporter one time during all of this and by the way i spoke to every reporter i could. i was very transparent and had a reporter say to me acknowledging that she was violent toward me and established fact say well, you know. we heard that he said some pretty nasty things during your marital fights. and i couldn't imagine a reporter saying the same

thing to a woman whose husband had been admit lid violent toward her. double standard. >> tucker: which reporter was that that said that. >> this was from a local tv station up in maine where i was working before my job at the white house. >> tucker: that's pretty shocking. obvious question is if your wife, ex-wife admitted using use violence against you and evidence there is. you denied used violence against her. no evidence that you did. why did you lose your job? >> well, because i worked for president trump in the white house. that's all there is too it. not even a question if that story would have run if i didn't work there. and president trump, thank god for him, at least, is calling out the media for their ongoing bias like few people are. on top of all of that, tucker, for my part, i passed a polygraph exam proving my innocence. the sitting government of govere

state my former boss offered my job back. he had that much faith in me. people we knew came out publicly said they didn't believe her and total faith in me. it's one sided thing. >> tucker: it's certainly orwellian and you are not alone in this. this is the first time we have dug down in one of these stories which you find is pretty upsetting. thank you for telling your story. i appreciate it? >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: the left is pushing hard on a ban for assault weapons. whatever those are. we still haven't really decided. how will that ban work exactly and will it keep anybody safe? we'll ask someone who supports it next. ♪ ♪

♪ >> tucker: well, almost everybody on the left supports banning so-called assault weapons these days.

so, some are going even further. while cnn's chris cuomo says if it's not happening more and more of them really are calling for a total repeal of the second amendment. don't worry, that's not a gun ban they say. make it impossible to ban guns later if we needed to. williams is a new york city councilman running for lieutenant governor of the state of new york. is he a frequent guest on this show and we are happy he is thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me on again. >> tucker: one of the reasons i'm glad you are here is you are an honest man. i keep trying to get to the core of what this means. people on television keep telling me we need an assault weapons ban and if i complain about it, i don't like children or something i'm bad. that's fine but just tell me what you are calling for. there are tens of millions of semiautomatic rifles in circulation already in people's homes. would those be included in the ban. would people have to turn their guns in or not. >> this is not about turning guns in. most importantly, this is not about finding one thing

that's going to solve the problem. i do believe it is a complex problem. so we need a complex solution. both on dealing with the supply and access to guns and the demand issue that most people like to speak about the cause of violence. we need solutions to both of those. when i i think of assault weapons ban i think of semiautomatic weapons high capacity ammunition rapid fire and combat use. >> tucker: right. you basically said what everyone is saying. but i just want to drill down on the specifics of one piece of it and i'm not suggesting this is your whole response to violence but it's part of this. this assault weapons ban. what does that mean? have you tens of millions of semiautomatic weapons that are already in circulation. people already have them. you could stop all sales tomorrow but you still have tens of millions of these guns. what do you do with those? do you not do anything about them or do you do something about them? >> what i like to do is it's easy to go to the point that would cause the most

consternation. this is not about getting the guns from the people in the homes currently at this moment in time. what we want to do is prevent these sales from moving forward. >> tucker: okay. but hold on. i'm not trying -- look, this is the core of the question. if you think that guns are causing violence, and there is literally no social science that shows that but if we're going to pretend that guns are the problem and i guess we are, then you have to answer what to do about the guns. >> i disagree. there is a lot of data that shows that. >> tucker: i'm conceding that i'm playing along with this fantasy that guns are the problem. >> heart of thpart of the probl. >> tucker: what do you do with them? you say at some future date. what does that mean? >> i disagree what the core of the question is last time i was on the show there was agreement we shouldn't have unfettered access to guns. the next logical question is there too much access to guns if the answer is yes what should we do. we drill down on one thing

as opposed to as if one thing will either cause or perpetuate it to go forward. >> tucker: we have already had an assault weapons ban that didn't work. >> that's not true. the data. >> tucker: factual it's true. >> in 2004 there were 89 deaths from massacres. after they expired from the next 10 years, not including the parkland or vegas, there were about 300 incidents from mass. >> tucker: the rate of people killed by firearms of all kinds did not change at all. that's not opinion. it's a fact. i was there. i covered it actually. >> but the data i just said is also true the amount of people who were killed by assault weapons. >> tucker: how many people i ddie and it didn't save any lives. i want to know what it means. have you got hundreds of millions of high capacity magazines. magazines clips that hold bullets. >> i asked that question. you want to continue to drill down.

t. >> tucker: i want specifics because i'm an american citizen and you are running for office. >> prevent future sales of weapons. what you want to do is pinpoint. but i have already said i'm not focused on that. >> tucker: not focused. so at no point if there are hundreds of millions of high capacity magazines, you could ban sale today and it would not effect the outcome at all because hundreds of millions is a lot. >> i understand that. >> tucker: do you anything about those magazines? >> are you saying those hundreds of millions are a problem? >> tucker: i don't think they are because i think guns are inadamant octobers that don't shoot people on their own. >> there are things that move the gun violence but you don't concede that guns are actually part gun violence problem. >> tucker: i'm just a hack journalist trying to get a straight answer. >> i'm trying to give one also. >> you are trying to get control of a state. >> do you believe that guns are a part of a gun violence problem? >> i just want to know what you are going to do with the magazines. >> that's a question you won't answer. >> tucker: i said it 10 times. guns are tools when they are misused they hurt people.

>> do you think guns are a support of the gun violence problem that we have? >> tucker: i'm not getting anywhere. but i'm trying. >> and i ask you the question. i hope you answer mine one day. have a great one. >> tucker: thank you, councilman. american credit card debt just hit a terrifying 1 trillion-dollar in personal credit card debt. are we heading for a capacity on this? no one is talking about it. we are. stay tuned. >> we hit the door at 110 miles an hour every morning. and if we're not moving at that speed, our colleagues will fly right by us. >> sandra: our job is to facilitate smart conversation so that the people who are watching us can better understand what's happening in the world. >> bill: to go deeper and find another question that other people aren't asking that's the real challenge. >> sandra: deliver it straight bad or good. deliver the new

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>> tucker: so you thought california had gone insane. here's proof. a judge there has ordered all coffee sold in the state to come with a cancer warning label. apparent there there is a tiny theoretical likelihood that a chemical in coffee might raise cancer risk if you would drink several hundred gallons an hour so everyone should be afraid. meanwhile in the world of science the who world health

organization took coffee off the list of par cybi possible pe cancer causing. they surveyed people and found coffee substantially improves life span. the more you drink, the longer you live. coffee should be given away for free. it is an elixir. it is the fountain of youth. it's what we have been looking for. everyone should have it. and here at fox everyone does, trust me. credit card debt is exploding in this country. for the first time in american history, americans as a whole own more than a trillion dollars just to credit card companies. that's 8600 bucks for every household in this country, more than 3 grand for every single man, woman, and child in america. including babies. that's just credit cards. millions of americans also have student loans, home loans, car loans, plenty of other debt. are we reaching a tipping

point for debt and what would happen if the economy enters another downturn not that that would ever happen. hawkins chief macrostrategist at tamitica. tell me how to pronounce that lenore. >> tamatica. >> tucker: too many vowels for me. research. she joins us tonight. i'm glad you are laughing because this is a terrifying subject particularly the credit card debt something everyone can relate to and understand how it works if you are a consumer. these levels seem very high to me. are they. >> they are very high. what's even more concerning is the pace at which we are accumulating it. and, in fact, the last three months of 2017 consumers racked up credit card debt at a faster pace than in the past 30 years. so faster than even in the great recession. >> tucker: it seems like this is one of those stories that is never covered but it ought to be. here you have some of the biggest companies in the world getting kids on credit

cards in college, charging rates that banks would never charge. i'm going to charge -- i had my -- the bp visa card, what's the interest rate? 28.2% -- 28% interest. isn't someone supposed to be. it's shocking actually. it's usury. illegal in other countries. why is it happening here and no one is saying anything? >> because people don't seem to have much of a choice these days. if you look at what hourly earnings have been, decade after decade after decade they have been growing at slower and slower pace. people are barely making ends meet. if you look at the past six out of the past seven months hourly earnings have actually been either flat or they have fallen. people aren't really making much money. then you look at spending. spend something still growing pretty fast. income isn't growing really fast. what are you going to do? take these credit cards and get desperate. >> tucker: this is an age old problem when the mafia

used to do this in immigrant neighborhood basically the exact same thing credit cards are doing. the feds cracked down on it and sent them to prison because you are not allowed to do that why do we let the credit card companies do the same thing. >> i think part of what we are seeing is that a lot of the financial services have been struggling to make money everywhere because we have had had interest rates pushed down so, so, so low. that doesn't give those banks much room to work to make money. they borrow -- they take money from you into the checking account and lend it out like a mortgage or something. those rates have been so low that it's been tough for them to make money. they have gotten desperate and gone out further and further into these kind of edgy activities. just to try to make money. >> tucker: preying on the weak. >> exactly. >> tucker: you said low interest rates. this is one of the many unintended consequences of fed policy. what happens when they go up as they are going to? >> yeah, well, your credit card payments are going to group a lot higher as well. they are going to be going

faster and faster. look at what all this debt that is outstanding and your payments every month. even if you don't add anything more on to your credit card, your payments are going to get more and more expensive. at the same time, it's not like that income is growing really fast. people find themselves just further and further in the hole. if we do get a recession which is going to happen, right? this is a normal cycle. have you booms and busts. normal thing to happen. how are people going to get through? >> tucker: i'm ashamed to say that i and a lot of conservatives have defended this crap for a long time and we shouldn't have and we shouldn't now. thank you for the overz. sue. thank you. >> thank you. >> [national anthem]

♪ [national anthem] ♪ [national anthem] ♪ [national anthem] ♪

♪ ♪ >> one more slap at the trump administration, california governor jerry brown has just issued preeaster pardons for five illegal facing deportation. >> the wall is getting built. >> truth is walls work and agents know it. >> the wife of nightclub shooter omar mateen acquitted. >> former fbi director james comey and his second in command. >> andrew mccabe's lawyers firing back to fox news saying the evidence falls short of proving a lack of candor. >> seconds to go for a trip to the national