is part of the problem the tenure of the radical professors

that they cannot be challenged and so you don't have this competition of thought among even professors? >> that is correct. you look at the different architects a conservative will try to get to college as quickly as possible going to business or finance and make a life for ourselves. a liberal love college and they love the fact that it's a luxury vacation and there's little responsibility and unlimited freedom. they don't leave become professors because they enjoy that culture. it makes sense that they go into academia and the answer is what's most interesting to me, have you at university of california berkeley, full-time staff members dedicated to the idea of racial and ethnic diversity. as soon as you talk about ideological or political diversity, they say, no, no, no, we don't stand thatchfor that. we only need to have racial and ethnic diversity. we need the free flow of ideas

re-enter college campuses, the most intolerant people are the people that preach tolerance. mark: daniel horowitz, the country is going broke among other reasons, funding colleges and universities. funding public education across the board. we seem to be subsidizing the left, the left's ideology to our own detriment, is that correct? >> as a long time critic of the republican party from the right. we often die on their hills, not on their hills but on our ideology. what charlie was saying is important, younger people in colleges are faced with a dynamic now, when they go out into the world, they have endless student debt, and endless costs from health care. health care is very expensive. and naturally, if they're not offered a competing set of ideas, the free stuff is going to be very enticing. but no one explains to them how

the government has created an insurance health care conglomerate cartel, an education cartel, that has basically inflated the cost of those services commensurate with those very subsidies. we don't offer it. instead the republican party tends to shy away from that, tends to agree with what the democrats are offering. as you always say, they operate within their contours, within their paradigm, as such, the american people and the younger generation are attracted to those that offer it with a happy face rather than those who offer the same ideas with a sour face. mark: what is the answer with these -- this -- these various oligopolys. how do the leftists get involved in the education because it seems like a close shot pretty much? >> it is, if you look at a closed shop, there's a reason

for it. the market didn't dictate it. there is always a government intervention. in the case of the education cartel, the accreditation is all monopolized through government tilting of the statutes so that basically the colleges now run on a specific very rigid curriculum, all mandated by government. if we got the government out of education, then we'd have the free flow of ideas. in health care, it's very evident, a lot of young people look at the's and say this is too expensive, we're being gouged. therefore, we need socialized medicine. but someone needs to get up there and say government through medicare and medicaid? by the way, medskad 75% run by insurance companies. they get all their market's share through government subsidies and use that to gouge the consumer. so i think the way to promote free markets is to show how we don't own the existing policies, not the result of free markets, they're the

result of big government policies and only the free market policies could deconstruct that. but we've got to make the case, and unfortunately we're not seeing that too much from either party. mark: how do we make the case in colleges and universities if we're not given the platform to make the case? >> despite all the horror that's happening on our college campuses, i've never been more optimistic about the future of this country. i visit the campuses. we have a record amount of college chapter inquiries, turning point usa, i'll show up to give a campus lecture, standing room only, selling out tickets like you wouldn't imagine but look at the other speakers, someone who used to be obscure social psychologist, jordan peterson has the number one best-selling book on amazon and he talks about things that shouldn't be controversial. people say there are only two genders. that is considered hate speech on college campuses. he'll say men are better at some things and women are

better at some things. shocking statement. we're going to win because the left, who i consider an enemy of democracy, enwe of freedom, enemy of the constitutions and repuic t enemies always overshoot their target. always. if history tells us anything, decent minded people in the middle will gravitate towards better principles and ideas. people between the ages of 16 and 20, much more the conservative side, the generation is z, we fix it with better ideas, better arguments and we are going to be the decent, fair minded champions of liberty and freedom for a generation that feels completely lost in this sea of post modernism and neo-marxism. mark: do we find the better ideas in the party structure? in the republican party? what does the republican party stand for today? >> i think if we're going to continue doing the same thing over and over again, we're

going to define the definition of insanity. it's been three decades since reagan and we've lost our way. we've really not found any home in the republican party. the reality is, republicans take a look at what charlie sees on the college campuses and they say my gosh, this is so scary, the young generation doesn't believe in conservatism. we need to go and move further to the left. but again, they're always going vote for the authentic thing that it's not so much that the young generation is irrevocably liberal, it's that they're atracked to the strongest players on the block. you need to offer new ideas. how are you going to find them. i agree with you, we need a convention of the states. if you expect washington to fix itself, i think we have enough examples, it's never going to happen ever. the republicans control all three branches of government. they control roughly 30 state governments and we're not seeing any new ideas. we need to fix it from without,

we need citizens task forces to come up with new ideas, new grassroots organizations but ultimately got to come from without because sadly, don't think this duopoly of the republicans and democrats is serving anyone correctly and to the extent younger voters are more attracted to new ideas, i think it will be through a new movement, not a tainted republican party that comes with a lot of baggage. mark: how do we do what daniel is talking about? which is a lot of work. convention of states. that is, the state legislatures, send delegates, they get together, they have a meeting, which they used to do all the time. and then they can propose amendments to the constitution to hone in the federal government. that's a big task. i'm all for it. i've written all about it. but in the meantime, the meantime can be years. do you want to give the playing

field up to the democrat party where they control the house, the senate and the presidency? even now if they control the house and the senate, the current president will be stopped immediately in his tracks. what are your thoughts? >> look, what i'm focusing my life is a short and long-term objective. the short-term objective is to change the cancerous culture on college campuses. if we don't get that right, our culture will be completely unrecognizable. culture, the first component of culture is education, and we have 1800 major college campuses across the country, where post modernism and neo-marxism has run amok. how do we change that politically? the activists that we at turning point usar ai of young we're empowering, they need to run for office because they're principled. because they understand the ideas, and more than anything else, more than a lot of the current republican officials, they have fought the left head-on. they have seen who they really

are because on the college campuses, if you want to see at most primal form what drives a leftist toward action? they don't care for the poor, they hate the rich. it's not that they have a benevolent view of the world, they want to watch it burn. we need to empower, equip and train to run for state and federal and local office and they'll be the next mike lees, the next thomas massies. why don't we have a goal that we have 15 mike lee, rand paul by the next elections. that undercurrent is so important. mark: is that enough? >> the problem is, it's like sending diamonds into a landfill. we've tried a lot of that. i was just dealing with several primaries throughout the country where the other side will use their superior forces, their endless special interest funding to run on our issues,

paint the conservative guys as the rhinos, as the liberals and confuse the voters and we're really not having a lot of success in primaries. we were together in 2014, early on endorsing challengers. i helped recruit a lot of them, and it's very, very difficult. i think it needs to start with some of the sitting members. youave a freedom caucus, couple of conservatives in the senate. we need a new contract with america. we need a new taxpayer and consumer bill of rights where like charlie said we're not just against the other side and hate the other side. where we affirmatively stand for certain ideas. we stand for federalism, for localism, for free markets, and i think if we would do, that we would offer voters another, a new idea, a set of ideas within the republican ballot line so you don't have the ballot access issue where they give control to the democrats, they run as republicans that start

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. mark: welcome back. all right, let's talk about free markets. you push free markets in our colleges and universities. amazon is under attack, facebook is under attack, twitter is under attack. they're all left-wing. let's admit it. conservatives having difficulty dealing with all of them. should the government get involved and regulate the entities? >> first and foremost, amazon in particular, very few people know they're on the verge of signing one of the largest department of defense contracts in our history. $100 billion cloud contract for amazon web services over ten years which would be subsidizing the entire amazon empire. amazon in particular, the president's itincre spot-on here. amazon loses money basically every vertical of the company except amazon web services, they use preferential treatment to the u.s. postal service,

masters at using tax loopholes not to mention jeff bezos himself owns the "washington post" and uses that as battering ram over politicians in d.c. every day. no one wants an unflattering article in the "washington post." first and foremost, stop subsidizing this. mark: let me ask you this, what are they monopolizeing? >> some people make the argument they are monopolizing online retail transactions, they have 40%. exxonmobil controlled 42% of all domestic oil kind of transactions. >> how did the domestic steel industry controlled 70% of steel production. >> right, we could put forth claims towards the different categories. as a free market guy, focus on the government contracts first and foremost should. not get corporate handouts, especially one from the department of defense, $100 billion over ten years, and the

president should absolutely veto and nix that completely and immediately. mark: what about facebook? >> facebook is quite interesting. here's what i can't figure out about facebook. barack obama did even more than what cambridge analytica did in 2012. barack obama campaign. they compromised the privacy of over 25 million americans. in fact, they bragged about it. "the new york times" wrote a very flattering piece saying the obama campaign was technologically sophisticated and cutting edge to be able to use facebook as a way to run a modern-day campaign zuckerberg didn't apologize after that. zuckerberg didn't testify in front of congress. make no mistake, the only reason zuckerberg testified in n front of congress and facebook is under attack, some of the data might have been used to help a republican get elected president of the united states. nothing to do with privacy, nothing to do with internet rights or freedoms and everything to do with democrats who are upset that big tech monolith might have been used to aid a conservative

candidate. mark: should they be regulateed? >> i don't necessarily think so. they should be treated as a public forum. that is an important distinction constitutionally and for the courts because they're not a content provider. they need to be treated as a public forum which google pretends they are. mark: they are a private company, how do you treat it as a public forum? >> that's the distinction. if they want -- google, for example, pretends they're a public forum because they allow different voices and opinions to be heard. facebook is not in the content creation space, they aggregate other people's content. are they a public forum or public company? could still be a private company and operate as a, quote, public forum and censor different voices. a conservative far more likely to get censored on facebook than anyone else which represents a huge threat to the first amendment. mark: so don't use facebook. >> that's the issue. they have 2.1 billion active

users. mark: they have 2.1 and one less. >> that's correct. it would take a lot of cultural realignment to stop using instagram owned by facebook. whatsapp is owned by facebook and facebook in general. i get a lot of my followers and forced multipleication through facebook. it's the devil you have to use which i don't think government regulation is the best way to go about it. mark: amazon, facebook, what's your take? >> in fact, when it comes to government regulations, sometimes they are a more potent weapon for the incumbent powers within a market than subsidies are. because they use them to box out competition. i don't think they would work. i'm kind of black and white when it comes to this. private property that i think a lot of us have forgotten about. when it comes to a person's private property, i have the right to use my company, my livelihood for what i want, you have the right to pay the

ronnize it or start your own thing. basically federal courts are giving random plaintiffs standing to sue president trump for blocking them on twitter. now trump's own twitter account he could use any way he wants. twitter, likewise, could offer a twitter account to anyone they want or deny it to anyone including the president. they could deny it to me. it's incumbent upon conservatives to start their own platform. i know it's difficult but unlike health care where 60% of the incumbent insurance carte organizations, 60% of their revenue comes from government funding, government programs such as medicare and medicaid, in this case, it is a free market, just difficult to break into. we got to take that initiative and this is an example where we could be very consistent that on the one hand you have the right to take your organization and make it as political as you want, on the other hand, i have the right with my private

property to service what i want. mark: do we trust the federal government to referee? >> no. mark: speech. >> it can only be worse. they can only make it worse. like i said -- mark: where is the federal government ever properly refereed speech? >> never, never, because again those that already have market share and economies of scale will use the regulations to their advantage. so i think for conservatives social media is a tough path to plow. mark: isn't the truth -- let me say this, we may have to take it to the next segam. we don't know what the next technology, is the next platform is going to be. if you talked about facebook 20 years ago nobody would know what facebook is. there may be something out, there somebody out, there somebody sitting in their dorm room at harvard at this time who is not zuckerberg but somebody else that comes up with something that makes it

even old-fashioned to be on facebook and so rth. >> so here's the -- you brought up the key point here. be very careful, if there's a regulation that tries to regulate facebook, i guarantee you zuckerberg will have the best team of lobbyists that protects the company more than anything else so it prevents the next competitor from rising up. that is the story of regulation over the last 100 years. >> like the auto companies. >> or dodd-frank. protects the incumbent. >> the auto companies, notice trump is easing the cafe standards. i expect the auto companies to say abolish them, they gained it out. >> they have the trial lawyers, the regulators, institutional knowledge and the capital to be able to comply with the cost of regulation. mark: regulation is typically anti-competition and anti-individual? >> that's right. regulation is a tool for the incumbent company or business owner to use against the small little guy that does not have the same resources to compete

in the marketplace. and you saw that of the financial crisis. the big banks got bigger. no penalty to pay and the small community banks got completely run over. mark: we'll be right back. with esurance photo claims, you could have money for repairs within a day. wow! that was really fast. that's insurance for the modern world. esurance, click or call.

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. >> live from america's news headquarters i'm kelly wright in new york. former first lady barbara bush is in failing health.

the 92-year-old wife of president george h.w. bush and mother of president george w. bush will no longer seek care. she is surrounded by her family and appreciates the kind messages and prayers she's receiving. actor and former marine corps drill instructor r. lee ermy passed away, longtime manager and friend says he died of pneumonia-related complications, best known for role in full metal jacket. he was one of go to actors for military roles with more than 60 movie credits to his name. he was 74 years old. i'm kelly wright. now back to "life, liberty & levin.". mark: welcome back. charlie kirk, daniel horowitz. daniel, let me start with you, a question. seems to be some conflicting ideas within the republican party, even within the

conservative movement, when it comes to national security and foreign policy of the rand paul position who's more libertarian, somewhat protectionist or isolationist in that regard, i would argue, and then you have the marco rubio position which is almost hyperinterventionist and those aren't the two positions, other positions like the traditional reagan position. can you explain this? >> when we started conservative review, we started out with a scecard where we wouldn't just rate the memrs based on votes but give a description what they did on committee assignments, what legislation they proposed? and we had this discussion how do you rate foreign policy and national security? it's not definitive, you don't have doctrines that are clear cut like raising taxes, increasing spending, and we noted this false dichotomy we have in the republican party, it's borne out of the lack of

vision among conservatives. you have the bloods and crips fighting each other, daniel, which one are you for? what we need to do is identify our interests. what are our american interests? we need to do an audit what we're involved in, why we're there. if military intervention, what do we hope to be in its place? learn some of the lessons from iraq and syria and afghanistan and understand what is doable, what is not doable, cost/benefit analysis. to do all of this, i do firmly believe as much as we hate congress, you need the people's representatives involved. i don't believe that any airstrike, imminent strike needs authorization, but if we're going to have troops for 15 years, the american people are rightfully wary. mark: where are you talking about in particular? >> afghanistan. afghanistan. mark: afghanistan. >> there was an authorization but an authorization of use of force in japan too and it's 60

years later. mark: there have been very few declarations of war. i understand your point. there have been five. america is at war quote, unquote or some battle more timeshan it's not, and so there's that argument whether we should or shldn't, and agree with it shouldn't be ideological point, it should be a rational point, but that said, obviously, to get congress involved, congress needs to do something and congress is a very slow body. they don't even hold hearings on budgets. so the balance, is it not, is if they're going to deliberate for three or four weeks or three or four days and the president thinks, i've got to hit that spot right over there, those guys are doing whatever they're doing, this creates the conflict. >> sure, i think the question is we have about 4,000 ground troops in syria, and they're kind of there indefinitely and you have the sunni insurgency

and the iranian hegemony backed by hezbollah and assad. mark: and we have russian troops in germany. >> not engaged in combat. mark: they're there potentially to be engaged in combat, right? >> sure. mark: what do we do? >> we're not going reinvent the wheel in one generation where we go back to what was viewed as offensive expeditionary back in george washington's time. but i think there has to be some understanding of yemen, syria, somalia, what are the players, what do we hope to get from it? is it solvent? i don't mind if we cate a red line and say hey, you use chemicalarfare, we're going to strike the chemical weapons. there is a broader question of is syria as a whole atenable situation with the sunni insurgency and assad. >> in the middle east, the two big players are the iranians and the saudi arabians and the

saudi arabians have a lot of proxies in the middle east. we should be very careful to think immediately saudi arabia has our best interests at heart. that is a fallacy, people call them a frenemy, i call them close to an enemy. they do not have our best interests at heart. the iranians are not our friends either, we should notified a saudi arabian proxy war. >> that is exactly right. >> that is a religious conflict. mark: are they building icbms for saudi arabia? iran? do they want nuclear warheads on icbms for israel. intercontinental ballistic missles? >> no, they want them for us. >> the way to go after iran is go after iran. not go down the rat holes in yemen. >> i agree. >> where you have the al qaeda and the houthis. we lost a navy s.e.a.l. mark: we should declare war on iran? >> i agree with you. mark: i'm asking.

>> you we went into the wrong country with iraq? >> iraq was fighting iran. saddam was anti-iran. mark: i came to the conclusion that we picked the wrong country because iran is a threat us to. believe tt and i believe it today. i also don't believe we have to attack iran directly, though one day we may. it depends. barack obama put us in a position which backed us up against a wall, we're arming essentially their nuclear plans. that said, it doesn't mean i don't think we should be strategic and use proper tactics, and back other countries that may help us in the long run, you know? you look at all the wars we've been involved in, that's exactly what we've done. russia is not our friend, is it? we allied with them in world war ii. that's not going to happen. there is this battle going on within the republican party, even the conservative movement on what to do in terms of

foreign policy. and when we come back, i want to ask you both this question: what is the foreign policy of the democrat party? because other than appeasement, i can't figure it out. i'm curious to know what you think. you can join us every week on levin tv. give us a call, 844-levin-tv. on our network conservative review, crtv. we'll be right back. time to bask... in low prices!

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. mark: welcome back. all right, charlie kirk, what is the democrat foreign policy? >> if i had to put it simply, it's arm our enemies and put america in a jeopardizing position. if you look at iran deal, no one rationally can defend that unless you want to give money, power and an advantage to an entire country and region that wants us dead. john kerrey and barack obama, and you've been vocal on the

iran deal and you went through the specifics, they put us in a totally compromising position militarily, culturally and geopolitically. the democrats seem so determined and hell-bent to try to withdraw our presence from certain sectors across the world where we had success in keeping radical powers in check whether it be trying to advance the filibuster a lot of our military funding in jeopardy or conversaons, so look, i think the democrat party is simple, they want a globalist-type government. they don't believe america is the greatest country in the history of the world. they don't believe america is exceptional, you can see it through the now foreign policy discussions that used to be politics ended on the water's edge, that doesn't exist anymore. the democrats have a globalist world view where they think the solutions can be solved in the u.n. or america should not be better than any other country and want to almost rid the

world of the inequities through the lessening and weakening of stat, and you are position which is a horrible idea because we live in the most peaceful time in human history which is a direct core larry, the more ubiquitous american presence, is the more peaceful. mark: does this explain the position on immigration? no borders, lack of sovereignty, you are one of the great experts on this and write about it all the time? >> i was headed right there. we focus on cultural, domestic policy but really foreign policy and national security at its core. in the early days we didn't have a dhs, the state department ran our immigration policy because it was rooted in foreign ols. this is where you see the rise of the alt-left taking over the democratic party. m not too old but old enoug to remember a time when i grew up in maryland, the governor was william donald schafer, a

liberal democrat but believed in a strong national security, traditional values and he got ran out of the party pretty late in his career because he was strong on immigration, and that just shows how far they've moved over. what i think you referred to this often is the decivilization agenda where, there are certain bank things that whether they stopped at water's edge or whether they're just natural law, family structure, a man-to-man, woman is a woman, a marriage is a marriage and borders are borders, questioning the raw basics and what is so sad about immigration is that the open border doesn't just flood the country with a lot of low-skilled immigrants, a lot of crime, but the drug crisis that we have now. if you look at any graph of what they call the opioid crisis which they want to make a health care issue, it started in 2013. that's where the compassion and sympathy for these

unaccompanied alien children comes full circle. a lot of them were drug mules, they had to pay the drug smugglers to come in, you can't implicate that agenda in any discussion over the drug crisis. everything must yield because the ends justify the means. mark: you agree with this? >> i visited the border for three days, i'd like to say there is no border. it's a joke. there is literally a copper bar that you could step over and walk into mexico. this is in the tucson sector the number one sector odrug traffic in the country, and i talked to border patrol agents, senior level border patrol agents and said how many of you support building a wall? we polled all the agents, 95% supported building the wall. the other 5% didn't understand the question. what we have here is attack on sovereignty, attack on our country, an attack on our culture at its very core. a nation is defined by border. you have a weak border, you have a weak country, it's

intentional. i don't give the democrats any sort of advantage on the argument. i don't give them the benefit of the doubt quite honestly. they want open borders, they want political and societal chaos. they want globalist agenda where america is not better than any other country where the constitution is run amok. when have you 15 million illegal immigrants then all of a sudden the rule of law completely disappears. when you get rid of the rule of law, you can have anarchy. i believe that within the base of the democrat party in the left is a desire to want to completely decivilize and destroy western civilization as we know it. mark: when we come back, this rule of law, where are we on the rule of law? what about our judges? are they upholding the rule of law? we'll be right back. back pain. because at a dr. scholl's kiosk he got a recommendation for our custom fit orthotic to relieve his foot, knee, or lower back pain, from being on his feet.

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. mark: daniel horowitz, judges, we were just talking about immigration. where do we stand with the judiciary in this country? >> when you wrote men in black, we're are at the point where judges do not recognize any clause of the constitution. what's a state power, they give

to the feds, what's a fed power they give to the states. that is antithetical they read into the constitution, and they are abusing the rules of stands to make anything a justicable case, everything trump has done that is not new territory, he merely gets rid of things that didn't exist in the country from 1789 until barack obama's last two years such as transgenderrisms in the military, contraception update. a lot of conservatives are proud of his deregulation agenda. i got news for you. >> what's happened to all that? >> the courts are enjoining them. the legal profession created this rule where they can get standing in a court to sue an abstract and have a district judge put a nationwide --

mark: thousands of district judges. >> put a nationwide injunction on -- mark: and block the president's agenda. what's your take on that? >> when i was raised, i was told there are three branches of government. that is not true. mark: there's at least four. >> the most powerful. it's unaccountable, it's unelected and it's unknown, that's the bureaucracies and included and in that are the district court judges, and as you articulate very well and ridge nat draft of the constitution, circuit court judge from nowhere, the majori of our laws and power vested within the government is not between the supreme court, the legislative or the executive, it's between the bureaucracies, they are putting unprecedented amount of pressure on freedoms and liberties on state, local and federal level across the country and they're unaudited, unaccountable and unknown. we don't know their names, can't get rid of them or vote them out. this is something the founding fathers did not foresee because

the bureaucracy is a life of its own. a multimillion person standing army against our freedom and liberty against one of the greatest threats we have today. mark: with the unelected branches, the courts and much of the courts have been created by congress and the administrative state also created by congress, that legislate, that adjudicate and that execute, and they're outside the constitutional system and outside our ability to reach them. all right, we'll be right back. t for a single dad. and back pain made it hard to sleep and get up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid... ...plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.

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not having a good breakfast can make you feel like your day never started. get going with carnation breakfast essentials®. it has protein, plus 21 vitamins and minerals including calcium and vitamin d, to help your family be their best. carnation breakfast essentials®. mark: welcome back. i'm in ask you what i've asked all my guest so far. next 20 years in america, do you feel positive about it or not so positive?

charlie. >> positive despite unprecedented odds, opposition from people that want to destroy this country. never bet against america. don't a bet against the working people. give the enemies of freedom in our colleges and our culture and media but with people like you and we are people like our organization and student activist that are rising up and fighting every day that are signaling the alarm and organizing for ideas that are timeless. i'm optimistic because that's the idea. it's more than anything else but freedom will always win. >> it's all in our hands. if you ask me about the next three or five years i see a resurgent of the left foot over the next 20 years the good news is charlie has said, the left is overplaying their hand. the country does not want what they want. i think that is the opportunity for younger conservatives to come in and offer something affirmative that speaks to people's hearts and their intellect and where they are. when they balance that against what they see in the left the long run it will win out. seize the opportunity.

mark: you are more confident than i am and that is okay. it doesn't really matter, i suppose buthatatters is we keep fighting and keep advancing the cause in our ideas. thank you. you have been to vegas. i want to thank you, too, americae i will see you here next time.. god bless. ert e. lee is in mary. >> that man is going to be the death of us. >> but there is no reason why the negro is not entitled the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. >> do you promise to preserve the union as it was? not to eliminate slavery?