>> jon: thanks for joining us. >> julie: "outnumbered" starts now. >> the u.s. supreme court hearing arguments on president trump's travel ban. the administration is offering the courts have no role to play with this because the president has broad powers over immigration and national security. critics say it discriminates against muslims. now it's up to the justices to decide. this is "outnumbered." we have melissa francis with us here today. fox news analyst, marie hart. joining us in the center seat, judge andrew napolitano. he's outnumbered. i've heard, why is he not on the

supreme court? i'm glad you're here. probably wondering who i eat with. yes. let's get to it. >> happy to be here. >> >> yes. >> all right. a big day at the supreme court as i mentioned. the justices hearing arguments for the first time on the president's travel ban. the policy has been in effect since december. the trump administration is asking the court to reverse lower court rulings striking down the ban. but this is the first time the justices are considering whether it's violates immigration law or the u.s. constitution. the ban applies to travelers from five countries with mostly muslim populations. iran, libya, somalia. some of them don't have stable environments. it affects two non-muslim countries, north korea and venezuela. shannon bream is live outside the supreme court with more on this. shannon? >> hi, harris. i just stepped out as they wrapped up arguments on this rainy day. crowds out here chanting on both sides of this heated issue. a lot of the conversation, at

least in the beginning, i was about congressional power versus presidential power. a number of the justices saying congress has acted on this. they have drafted statutes about immigration. justice sotomayor says what gives the president the power to go beyond that? this is the third version. the countries have come and gone. this one is neutral on its face. well, as you imagine, there's several skeptics of that. a number of the lower court judges have talk about the president as a candidate and his tweets of controversial topics that say he has an animus against muslim people. many have said if things should be considered in this case. justice alito saying if we're calling it a muslim ban, how can

that be when it impacts 8% of the muslim countries? he said listen, it's targeted and looks like it's aimed at things beyond religion. it's strictly has to do with countries that are unstable, not providing vetting information to the u.s. so when they show up at the borders, whether or not they can be permitted and be done safely. there was a conversation when the chief justice asked if the president talk about a muslim ban. the very next day reissued this proclamation, would it be okay with you? would it pass muster? the chief justice asked him again as if he would concede that point. he said yes. but he still believes there's problems with the ban just based on the text of it. that it still amounts to having a discriminatory purpose regardless how or why it was drafted. >> it's interesting.

i'm glad you enumerated that. i asked the question about venezuela. doesn't stability matter on the ground in terms of vetting? >> yes. a number of agencies got involved after the first two travel bans hit bumps. they said we'll have agencies that say if you can provide information, you get on the list. that had with chad. the administration said our job is to protect the country. we can't do that if we can't vet the people coming here. so there's ways to get off the list. as you can hear, a busy day outside the court. a lot going on. the discussion continues inside. one interesting thing today, they're going to release same-day audio. a little later today, we'll give people a chance to hear the justices in their own voice. >> that's an interesting -- if i miss that, i'll be watching at 11:00 p.m. for "fox news @night"

with shannon bream. >> see you then. >> so same-day audience. that enhances the conversation. these bake for so long and you get everybody else's opinion. >> sometimes the oral arguments and the weeds and the terminology doesn't appeal to the public. in a case like this we're talking about statements the president of the united states made when he was a candidate, in his official documents as the president and in his tweets, the public will probably find the oral argument interesting. the challengers say that the president has manifested a clear and unmistakable bias against muslims and his decision is based on that bias and the first amendment, which requires total neutrality in matters of religion makes this unconstitutional. the government says the congress has given the president the ability to suspend immigration from any country that he finds where the persons coming into

the country are more likely than not to be dangerous and the president is exercising that authority. those are the two arguments right there. >> so where is the intersection of religion? you're looking at venezuela. you're looking at other countries that are not mostly muslim. >> correct. here's what hawaii -- the state of hawaii is the lead plaintiff. the person arguing for the plaintiffs is the obama administration's solicitor general. you have the president's solicitor general representing the administration and -- everybody knows each other very well. the argument is that the president added north korea and venezuela -- >> but countries come on and off the list. >> so as to defeat the muslim argument. look, if this is based on re religi religion, the administration has a serious problem.

the swing vote is justice kennedy who seemed to manifest from his questions this morning a decided preference for presidential authority to do this. >> yemen, syria. we know what they look like on the ground. i don't know that your religion would matter much when you consider it's difficult to vet anybody from there. the first question probably wouldn't be about religion. >> a lot of people have made good arguments on the both sides. one of the things i found compelling is what shannon just said. you talked about stability on the ground and say invite us to your country, show us what you can do to get off this list. how you can better vet people r fr -- before they come. that's our concern. that's the failsafe in place when somebody thinks they're being wrongly persecuted. when you look at the countries identified, it's hard to imagine say here -- >> you don't think iran would do that? >> it speaks to the question why isn't saudi arabia on the list?

it's a country mostly muslim. >> that's the question i had for the obama administration. maybe you can answer that, marie. >> i have a question about why afghanistan or pakistan -- >> but saudi arabia, why not that under the former administration? >> we didn't have this ban under the former administration. >> you had identified nations -- >> those are countries that are were imposed on us by congress. we didn't select those countries. here's the three questions i have. why not afghanistan, pakistan, saudi arabia where more terrorists have hurt and killed -- >> because saudi arabia has a stable government where they're letting us come in -- >> afghanistan doesn't. pakistan is in the air. there's a group of 55 former republican and democratic national security officials including some cia directors that filed a friend of the court brief with the supreme court saying from a national security perspective, this doesn't make us safer. that's not a constitutional

argument but it's interesting. >> they want to second guess the president on his national security determinations. >> right. >> so can i ask you judge to put on your political hat. >> do i ever wear one? >> i've never seen it. >> you had a chinstrap. very nice. >> you can answer this question. as we can all agree, it's one of the most -- what is the win loss here? what does the outcome of this mean for the president's agenda? >> it's a win to the base, a substantial win to the base of the president arguably convinces his campaign on this issue. he's suffered many defeats thousand the route that the three bans -- this is the third one -- have taken up and down throughout the judicial so many. if he wins this, this will speak with finle -- finality if he

had the power. >> in your opinion, was he? >> i would have not signed that ban but i'm not the president. >> i want to go something that you said. president obama had a list of terror hot beds that were seven nations. on that list was not saudi arabia. you're right. it wasn't a ban. that was a terror hot bed. i understand that americans were told according to the research not to go there. >> so we have travel restrictions on a number of countries. many more beyond the seven. and those again, the terrorist hot beds were imposed on us. that was a designation imposed by congress. we never would have said people can't come here from there. this prevents people -- >> i want to make everybody aware that the list was real but the reason was different. >> exactly. we didn't come up with the list. this list bans people coming here to see family members -- >> did you fight the list? >> absolutely we did. this ban now that we're talking about in the trump

administration, it prevents people to coming to the u.s. for good reasons, too. >> our d.c. team is so good. the audio is out already. they just sent it to us. >> i'm same-day audio. i know what you'll be doing. that judge stuff that you do. going through the arguments from the u.s. security. great to watch, by the way. new information about the columbia university law professor that passed former fbi director james comey's memos to the media. sometimes the word "leak" is used. turns out, he was a special government employee for the fbi. we we're only learning about this now and the potential effect of the latest revelations ahead. the white house is stepping up its support for v.a. nominee for ronny jackson. >> what we're seeing is these qualified honorable individuals being dragged through the mud.

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his hearing was delayed over misconduct allegations. the president slamming democrats over his attempts to block his nominees. he said they tried to block his secretary of state pick and now this. >> this is a vicious group of people that maligned and they do and i lived through it, we all live through it. they failed with mike pompeo and that was a big, big hit because they thought they could stop him and embarrass him. the democrats have become obstructionists. that's all they're good at it. >> last night white house strategic communications director mercedes schlapp dismissing the allegations against jackson. >> these are false allegations. let's start from there. it's unfortunate that what we're seeing in these confirmation processes are these very qualified honorable individuals being dragged through the mud. that needs to stop. let dr. jackson have his hearing. >> lawmakers say they have to do

their due diligence. john tester detailed allegations that dr. jackson drank on the job during the previous administration. >> it was the obama administration. the truth is that admiral jackson was the primary healthcare provider for the president. if you're drunk and something happens with the president, it's very difficult to go in and treat the president. so this is totally unacceptable and that's what many people told us. >> and president obama gave jackson a glowing praise on a performance review. then president obama wrote this. >> that was then president

obama. this is a tough one. interesting to hear the white house response. already dismissing allegations. many senators both on the left and the right are saying hey, look, there's enough allegations here serious enough that we need to look into them and ask questions. >> i like mercedes. she's a former colleague here. i don't know how she could know if these are true or false. i think the president is overgeneralizing that the democrats just want to be obstructionists. i think the democrats are concerned that while he's an admiral, he lacks the experience necessary to tame a beast, which is what the v.a. is, of 360,000 bureaucrats. if that's the case, he should be rejected for that reason, not because of these allegations, whether they're true or untrue. >> it's interesting. it's almost when you heard the president talking yesterday on multiple occasions about this, that he sort of did leave the door open or gave him an out, if

you will. you wonder if he might choose to walk away. >> i mean, it would be very hard -- i would have to say myself, if the president called and asked a me of my family to serve in some position, it would be very hard to accepted that at this point given what everybody is going through. it does look like it's a pretty impossible process. at the same time, it's really frustrating to me from a business perspective to see that we've made no head way on the v.a. it's a huge problem. it's so essential to our nation. these are service men and women that deserve the best care. i can't believe that we can't even get the right head in place to get started on fixing it when fixing it is such an enormous job. >> what is interesting -- i wrote that down. we don't often talk about it. we talk about it in terms of our heart. it's a huge component of our economy. getting it right in that heart component comes in and we want to get it right because of what

these men and women do for our country. at the same time, there are a lot of questions about the admiral ronny jackson that have to do with what he said yesterday. first he didn't -- he indicated he didn't know about an i.g. report and the white house produced it. >> he must have known about it. it was about him. >> and then the second thing, senator moran of kansas said i just sat down with ronny jackson and i asked him about the allegations. there were certain things that were said in that conversation, too. there were reports about the specifics of the allegation. if you get on the record later and some of the stuff turns out to be true, he sat down with senators and had these conversations. >> is this a democrat or republican issue? >> no. he was supposed to have a committee hearing today. the republican chair pulled it down because he said they were concerned about things they heard in private meetings. they were hearing from constituents, from people that

served with him that said we have serious concerns. you heard john tester in that interview say we didn't go seeking this out. people came to us. >> if it's so blatant, going back to president obama's glowing praise -- >> i'm not sure it would have reached president obama. >> which is sad -- >> and donald trump hasn't heard -- >> again, sad. >> when he decided to nominate him. i know donald trump does things differently and a lot of people like that. vetting of cabinet nominees, particularly this one, to melissa's point, is so important. every t should have been crossed and every i dotted -- >> they're allegations first of all. you're working on the premise that they're true. >> but they're out there. you have a cabinet nominee, it's your job to know about the allegations before you nominate them. >> look what the white house staffer, rob porter, because the

allegations were so strong, should have -- his job is nothing like this job. >> if you look at the text of the i.g. report. >> it praises him in the end. >> the toxic work environment and the conflict between the two doctors at the top. it's a different -- >> yeah. >> it doesn't address the drinking. >> doesn't even talk about that. >> it's an i.g. record. how would they know that? >> sell the v.a. real estate, give every veteran a card and go to any healthcare facility they want. >> i agree with that. there's an op-ed on foxnews.com. making the case for ronny jackson. says the v.a. needs a combat medic, not a politician. and now we're learning more information about how comey leaked to the press.

and new concerns over republican's narrow win in a district president trump won by 20 points. does it show problems? we'll debate. your heart doesn't only belong to you.

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>> new questions about last night's arizona election.

debby lesko winning to replace former gop congressman trent frank. he resigned last september. lesko won by six points in a district that president trump carried by 20 points. that's raising concerns that more red districts could be in play in the mid-terms. here's lesko last night. >> i'm thankful that i won. would it have been nice if i won by more? of course. but a win is a win. i'm the next congress woman for direct 8. it's awesome. >> but despite the loss, the results showed democrats are still fired up. >> our race is really received a lot of attention lately from all around the country. you have to wonder why. the fact that it's a few points as opposed to double digits? that's because of all of you. >> meantime, president trump today tweeting congratulations

to debbie lesko. debbie will do a great job. press is so silent. >> this is april. aren't they going to be running against each other in november? just like that pennsylvania seat that we just watched a few months ago? this is for a very, very short term. at that time there will be people running for the senate. >> melissa, what can we conclude from this race? >> six points she won over -- donald trump carried it over 20. what does that tell us? >> i think every district and candidate is unit. there's a lot of energy on both sides that everybody is fired up by all of -- all the fighting going on all over the place. in each district, it's a difference makeup and especially when you have two people in the race that you can both lean

towards what that district is like. that tells you how to play the small races and doesn't say anything about bigger races. >> it got close there. i spoke to lesko. she had a narrow lead over the democrat. it came down to a point lead. but what are you able to concludes from this? >> what is interesting, when the races tighten in districts where they haven't been close, republican outside groups and national groups have to spend more money in what should be safe seats. we've seen this in the conversation about texas. ted cruz is probably going to win a pretty safe texas senate seat but he has a well-funded democratic challenger. so republicans are spending money in place i they shouldn't have to. they'd rather spend it elsewhere. republicans that i have spoken to are concerned that they're having to spend money to defend seats donald trump won over 20 points. >> are the democrats in arizona happy this morning that it was just six points or are they

disappointed that the doctor lost? >> both, actually. >> i'm not concerned about the money. i just think that president trump is a money-raising money. that he has proven -- he goes out and he's able to rake in money for the republicans like we haven't seen in awhile. you know, i don't think on the republican side -- yes, they're having to spend money but they're raising money. >> but they're worried about it. democrats are also raising a ton of money and outraising republicans. republicans are worried they have to defend places that president trump won by this much. if every districted flipped like this, democrats take the house. >> the national message that you're talking about benefits the democrats. they are doing that dance of figuring out what works in each individual market more so. republicans seem to be looking at that, well, what can yoking

ourselves to the current administration do for winning on the ground. it doesn't work. it's more complicated in the long run and they may have to make an adjustments. they may very well do that. but democrats are already making that. where the democrats are failing is that doesn't force them to come up with a national message. we know what it should be. the economy. but they still aren't at that level yesterday. so sooner or later, it will even out. will the mid-terms get here before or after that. >> speaking of the mid-terms a new fox poll shows three candidates taking the top tear among unlikely gop voters. evan gentlemen kins at 2 five%. morsesy a 21% and don blainenship at 16%. the candidate will face off in may to try to unseat joe manchin in november. in a debate the candidates tended to align themselves with

president trump while slamming manchin and taking shots at each other. >> evan jenkins supported nancy pelosi, he supported john kerry, rallied for hillary clinton and is really just down on religion. >> i have to respond. here's a guy that grew up in new jersey. he ran for congress in the year 2000 on his jersey values platform. he has been writing checks to pro abortion candidates all his life. he doesn't get religion until he came to west virginia. >> i have to apologize that i created both of these republicans by making it popular to be a republican in west virginia long before one moved from being a democrat and the other moved here from new jersey. >> what a slam the jersey part. >> there's some fireworks there. fox news polling shows 67% of

gop primary voters strongly a brief of president trump's job performance. that got pretty heated there. >> i know patrick morisey because he tried cases before me. why do the democrats want to get rid of their -- why do the republicans want to get rid of their favorite democrat? joe manchin votes with the republicans more than some republicans do. >> yeah. i don't think they want to. i think they want to adopt him and give him a cozy home. >> what do they think will happen in the primary? >> he went to jail for manslaughter after a mining accident. >> he will be on with you tomorrow? >> yes. let me tell you something about this race that is fascinating. the undecided voter.

24% of gop primary voters are undecided. in addition to those that are currently supporting someone, 41% of those said that they would be willing to change mind. >> wow. >> throw that into the bin of undecided. that leaves a good race. >> tuesday may 1. >> can we go back to the joe manchin question? i think republicans would rather keep joe manchin and get rid of susan collins. >> i agree. >> they want to adopt him. >> there's other people they would vote off the planen. >> and blankenship is so incendiary. >> you've seen republican national groups running ads against blankenship, which is stunning in a primary to run an ad against the guy polling third. because he has such name

recognition, they're concerned an't him. >> an interesting point, for good or ill. because we are a nation of let's move on to the next square. that's how we progress. which means that that name recognition may trump anything else. >> we'll see. >> potentially. >> joe manchin is an interesting democrat. he's very in tune with his state. when you talk to him, which i've done many times about policies, his guiding principle is what do my constituents wants. >> isn't that what it is supposed to be? that's why people vote. >> yeah. most members of congresses don't say that. they think about what mitch mcconnell or paul ryan or chuck schumer want. it's refreshing when you talk to a politics like joe manchin. >> you're a former spokesperson for these people. is this a true confession? >> wow! that's why she's with us. giving us the behind the scenes look. >> we talked a lot about democratic primaries to sandra's

point, that kind of undecided makes polls right now really fy. >> that number of being willing to switch. that is basically -- like you wouldn't go to the alter like that, right? yeah, i'm go to the alter with my guy. 40% want to switch partners. don't buy it. >> those are not good odds. >> fox news is america's election headquarters. catch the gop debate for west virginia next tuesday night may 1 at 6:30 eastern. coming up, a republican appointed judge ruling against the trump administration's attempt kill daca. all this as a caravan of migrants arrive at the border despite the warning to stay away. how much of a set back this is for the white house next. >> they deserve the right to have asylum and we as a country should be meeting them with open arms instead of with the

national guard and more guns at the border.

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minimize blood sugar spikes. every meal every craving. it's the choices you make when managing blood sugar that are the real victories. glucerna. everyday progress. >> a third federal judge rejecting the trump administration's justification for ending the so-called dreamer's program. that's the obama era program that protected illegal imgrants for deportation. two other judges came to the similar decision in the past. this is the first republican judge appointed to do so. judge john bates said for the reason follows, the court has the jurisdiction and the statutory authority to hear the apa act and the constitutional claims. the court further concludes that under the apa, daca's recision

was arbitrary and capricious. unlike previous judges, this just opened the possibility that the trump administration could be order to take new daca application. he says if homeland security doesn't coming up with a better decision for dismantling in 90 days. all of this playing out as the migrant caravan arrived at the u.s. border despite trump administration warnings to stay away. judge, the legality? >> there's three judicial rulings on daca. daca prevents infants who came here with their parent to not be deported as long as they do things in the executive order.

the first two judges ruled differently. they said you can't kick anybody off the program that is on it, but you don't have to put new people on it, this judge said you have to admit all people to the program that comply with the obama era regulations. so effectively saying -- >> doubling down. >> yes. discretionary policy decision made by president obama is binding on president trump. in my opinion that is new and radical. i'm a supporter of daca because i think compassion is the best way to treat these people, but the reason given by this judge would force a new president to accept a decision of his predecessors. >> so is that political? in my opinion it is. this is a long way -- >> if you're the white house, you block that based on politics? >> can they appeal it?

>> yes. he gave them 90 days to appeal. he realized it would be appealed. they don't have to take the new applicants. i don't think the peel will be finished but it will be filed. >> what is interesting to me and sad, this week we saw the first daca recipient who was still here under a currently legal daca documentation was deported to mexico. he didn't have his wallet. they deported him. a lot of reporting on it. so -- >> he got deported because his wallet wasn't with him? >> yeah. he was in a restaurant. his wallet was in the car and he was deported back to mexico. these are the problems now. they're real human's lives. we have law and a judicial process playing -- >> you know who tried to solve it? the man on the big wall over there. the president of the evidence. they show it, you'll see it. my question is why didn't the

democrats step in and work with this president? >> they tried to but the republican caucus is split on how to fix daca. some don't like amnesty, some don't like what president trump proposed. president trump -- everybody keeps changing their mind -- >> if i don't respond -- >> the answer to all of that is i agree with what you say, the answer is an exploding deadline. that's what the president tried to do with all business and all negotiations. when these parties are so depply entrenched in their constituents and the politics and what they're -- >> why didn't the democrats step up? they shut the government down. >> see, i thought the judge that put it back in place because when the president ripped the band aid off and said that daca is gone, that forced everyone in theory to come to the table and work something out and make some sort of deal. but the judge said we're going to puts it back in place took away -- >> it wasn't on that judge's docket until june. so we got to see it moved up -- >> it's the problem when you have the same case being decided

by three different judges. should have been consolidated before one judge. >> democrats today could go to the president, could go to the republicans and cut a deal. >> yes. >> they could do it right now. >> i don't think republicans would say yes. >> fox news confirming stunning new details about the law professor that james comey used to leak his conversations with president trump. why this is raising alarm. patrick woke up with a sore back. but he's got work to do. so he took aleve this morning. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. check this sunday's paper for extra savings on products from aleve. with this level of intelligence... it's a supercomputer.

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>> more "outnumbered" in just a moment. first, let's go to harris and what is coming up on "outnumbered overtime." >> a very busy hour. the trump administration defending the nominee to head the veterans afire, white house dr. ronny jackson. guess who else was a big fan of his? president obama. mike kauffman joins me to talk about the newly revealed allegations. and has the french president succeeded in getting our president to stick with the iran nuclear deal or to come up with a new deal? senator ben cardin joins me to talk about that. atop of the hour on "outnumbered." sand sandra. new questions for james comey. fox news has learned that the columbia university law

professor previously worked as a special government employee for comey and the fbi. according to sources, comey tapped richman with special projects and he had security clearance and access to the building. also richman was provided talking points detailing how the agency was managing the investigation into former secretary of state hillary clinton's e-mails. and now republicans in congress want answers. rightly so, judge? >> yes. and it appeared when the memos were released, these are the seven memos that james comey wrote about his interactions with the president, some of which had blacked out, turns out that they had classified materials in them and i owe james comey and apology. i said if this stuff had classified stuff in it and he gave it to the professor, that is a crime. to fail to secure state secrets. if they were properly classified. now it turns out the professor

had a security clearance. there was no crime, mr. comey. the professor had a security clearance as a former federal prosecutor and as a special employee at the fbi, he was cleared to receive those documents with the classified material in them that james comey gave to them. >> and leak them? >> that's a problem for the professor. not a problem for -- >> some members of congress are weighing in. mark meadows released a statement to fox news saying it's interesting that director comey would offer a special job and give full access to his friend when there's 35,000 employees at the fbi. >> every government has special government employees, sges. i don't know why it's that term. it's fairly routine. i'm sure mark meadows is really concerned about this. this is political that he's raising a tension to this. there's no evidence that this had anything to do with anything related to the hillary investigation. what is interesting about the leaks to the press is reportedly this professor read excerpts to

a reporter. he didn't hand them over. so it will be interested to see if he purposely avoided getting into classified information when he did that. >> it's very interesting that he went on to say, it's not just that he gave these information to a friend but another fbi ploy yes that he hand picked to act as a special employee of the fbi. he said how many other people did he give these memos to? >> see, i think comey is -- covering his bases and clever about politically leaking what he wanted to through another channel. i'm makes the whole thing more slimy or and more disingenuous. >> but the justice department and the fbi leak all the time. >> it's terrible. >> it is terrible. it's a fact of life. it's wrong. they got caught when there's a political uproar. but when they're polluting the jury pool against him, no harm

no foul as far as the public is concerned. >> i think there's a harm and a foul. >> i'm with you. but it's a fact of life. >> and also congress leaked the comey memos to the public within an hour of receiving them. yes, there were redactions for classified material. when the leaks help you, the public has a right to know. >> he said he leaked it in order to spur a special prosecutor. >> and he succeeded. >> and who will have more questions? bret baier. he will sit down with james comey tomorrow night on "sport report." we've heard a lot from james comey lately. >> this will be a real interview. no powder puff. >> tune in for that. more "outnumbered" in just a moment.

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anif you've got a lifee. you gotta swiffer [laughter] >> sandra: if only you knew what we were talking about during the break. >> look at sandra blushing. >> sandra: would you like to thoughts for the day. >> judge: thanks for wonderful team for having me on the show today. >> sandra: wonderful. always great to have you. we have a few seconds. any thoughts? how about watch fox business at 4:00 p.m. myself after the bell. the market closes today. it's been a wild one.

>> sandra: we are back live tomorrow at noon eastern time. thank you for joining us. and now here is harris. >> harris: we will begin with this fox news alert. the white house is now launching an all-out defense of the president's v.a. nominee as we go outnumbered overtime. i'm harris faulkner. from president trump on down, the administration is defending rear admiral ronny jackson. that is the president's pick to lead the veterans affairs department. this amid allegations that as the white house doctor jackson oversaw a hostile work environment. improperly prescribed pills and possibly drank on the job. again, those are allegations. >> i would definitely stand behind him. is he a fine man. i would always stand behind him. i would let it be his choice. here is a man who has just been an extraordinary person. >> this is a person who has received praise from two different presidents, two different parties. over the course of a significant amount of time. two people that have spent a lot of time with dr. jackson.