the suspects being questioned. once those questions are answered, hopefully, we will have more. of course we'll continue to watch it for you on fox. >> thanks for being with us today. try to have a nice weekend. >> fox news alert, school shooting in texas. the sheriff says 8 to 10 people are dead. and a shooting at santa fe high school outside houston. most of the dead are students. more victims fighting for their lives, we're expecting to get a briefing on that and be kept up to date on that just moments from now. two people are being detained in this. also believed to be students. here's how we believe it happened. some one walked into an art class on this campus, and students described that person carrying rifle or shotgun in the classroom and opened fire. the dead as i mentioned are mostly students, but also in the hospital right now that we can tell you, are three people, one of them a police officer. the other another adult. and one is under the age of 18.

those are the details that we have right now. the detainees, one was arrested pretty quickly. the other detained moments later. the students obviously now as we look at these pictures live from outside the whose ton area in than -- houston area in santa fe, texas spilled on to the campus lawn as they were evacuating and lined up for their lives. the bus there is for the end of the school day. but the purpose to get the students to a safe location and await off-campus for the parents to pick them up. santa fe, texas, sheriff's department gave a briefing just a short time ago. in that briefing, they talked about what it was like inside that school. i want to bring in our first guest, pat blasman former nypd detective joining us by phone. pat, you are with us? >> yes, good afternoon. heavy always wish that it were under different circumstances, we need your expertise.

first of all, comments about your remarks about what you know to be happening on the ground. >> well, it's a horror show. it's the same story, it doesn't end, guys with a shotgun entered the shotgun with the shotgun, as joe pointed out in his program, it's extraordinary. it's very, very sad, very bad. but there are ways to mitigate it. and sadly, i no you and i have gone over this in the past, things just don't change. there's a myth out there, a false narrative, that the solution is to give guns to teachers and have more and more guys with guns. but the fact is, the schools are way too fast. you can't have an armed person in every square foot. doesn't work. heavy want to talk about the facts of this, i'm looking at a young girl, with its say shot in the leg, with its describe hearing an alarm at the school. though the sequence of events, they're still looking on the time line.

we want to get the details from the people on the round there. secure ing a scene like this, with a couple of people in custody, how much difference does it make that they were students potentially at the school? >> well, at this point, you know, the investigation is being pulled together from multiple investigative agencies. so the crime scene has been established, parameters and perimeters established. it does certainly add additional layers to it. but right now, it's all about identifying, if there are other actors involved, was he acting alone, is it contained and dealing with the injuries, first. and the fatalities, very sadly. >> harris: talk to me about a crime scene like this, children on the lawn out there, what is the clearing process like. this could take a bit.

>> it's very, very methodical and very painstaking. until those, all of those students are both identified and cleared, so they have the vetting process, a very structured vetting process, to ensure that some one else is not hiding among the seats so to speak, looking to elude capture, may or may not have been involved with the primary shooter. so the oldest trick in the book, get lost in the crowd then go out the door with all of the other innocents. i'm certain the authorities are being extremely exacting in both identifies and affirming and confirming. that's a process that can take quite a bit of time. >> harris: i want to ask a tough question, pat, but it may answer just how tight that art space was. this is an art class. we have a number of dead, more than 8, possibly 10. we have a number of injured. not much more than that, 12.

what does that tell you about the actual scene that broke out. anything? >> yeah, it does. not digses similar to the other -- dissimilar to other horrific shootings, the gott shotgun is a gruesome weapon. it has a spray pattern, devastating injuries, and capability of getting multiple victims with one discharge. it is an extremely lethal and deadly weapon. i think you had the scatter shot approach, i would speculate, obviously it's very, very early. i would speculate, based on that volume and the known time that elapsed, it was frantic and quick. within the confines of that art area. >> harris: all right. i'm joined by melissa francis, as we cover this breaking news. >> does it strike you, pat, that with its described either a

shotgun or a rifle. it's pretty big weapon to bring into school undetected. what does that tell you? >> well, it tells me a couple of things, melissa. first, that the school and not assigning blame or monday morning quarterbacking, it's too premature to speculate, but schools need some one at the entry point, at the point of ingress, they need some one there. ideally an armed security officer, sro. when some one comes in with an overt weapon, rifle or a shotgun, it cannot be concealed without great effort. let's assume that it is similar to sandy hook, came in with an obvious weapon, overt, entered the primary door into the facility, into the building. things should have been in place. people, processes in place, perhaps even technology. but the fact is, he had unfettered access by all accounts right now, charged into the school with a large weapon, not that he had secreted a 9

millimeter or revolver in his pocket. this is overt in your face right from the jump, as soon as he came in the door by the facts that are established in this investigation. extremely troubling, melissa. >> pat is there any cross communication, like after some other type of violence in america, like a terrorist, that you get, like the atf, you get the fbi, everybody sharing information. i'm looking at the list of seven school shootings from just this year, from 2018. all of the details here, and i'm wondering if there is a cross section, people at your level get together and talk to each other like the federal level. >> well, can i tell you, that there is both, i would say, an exchange, diskwoers certainly, between the agencies. it's heightened in my view. this is also the public-private partnership. the partnership between agencies like my agency, we're deeply

involved in school safety and mitt gating risk and identifying risk for a range of schools across the nation. so the fact is, people and the public-private partnership which i've seen enhanced recently, it certainly is better to have more cooks in the kitchen, we can learn from each other by intelligent exchange. i have seen that. and it is very, both enlightening, refreshing, informing. good stuff. we need more of it. >> harris: the reason i ask that specifically, we looked at how many times this has happened this year and there are a couple of categories. one is a gun guess charged a school property 31 times. when you drill down there's 7 school shootings which appear to be intentional, harm to others. of course parkland is on that list as the most, 17 people died, 1 injured. -- 12 injured. marshall county high school, benton, kentucky, two dead 15 injured in january. february of course was marjorie

stone man douglas in park land. in march we had great mills high school one dead one injured, great mills, maryland. raytown, missouri, south high school, one injured in april. another in april, forest high school, ocala, florida, one injured. one injured in highland high, palmdale, california in may. and then now santa fe high school between 8 and 10 dead akoring to the harris county sheriff's department and 12 injured that we know about. three in the hospital, outside of houston. as you look at that list where we've been, that's why i ask the question, are there, is there a concerted effort to get together a cross-populated, maybe to make a difference? >> yes, there is. clearly the facts support an upward trend. trending up, that is the absolute wrong direction. the repeated instances, frequency, the heightened

fatalities, all in the wrong direction. certainly a collaboration between the federal, state, local, as well as the very serious pragmatic and intelligent exchanges between the public-private sectors, obtain funding from the great president trump, he has certainly threatened us enough with it, it's time that some checks have to be written, there has to be funding, there has to be technology and people in process. anything else, harris, is a false narrative and falls squarely into the myth. it's empty rhetoric, rebounding off the walls endlessly, and the deaths keep on coming. they just keep on coming, it's horrifying. >> harris: pat brosnan, former nypd detective, appreciate your perspective and your expertise. i'll ask you to stand by as we get the next briefing and learn information, we'll want to tap into your experience again, thank you. short time ago, 789 trump actually spoke with this, his

remarks atop prison reform gathering he's hosting today. he spoke about it and we want to show it to now. >> president trump: we're with you in this tragic hour and we will be with you forever. my administration is determined to do everything in our power to protect our students, secure our schools, and to keep weapons out of the hands of those who pose a threat to themselves and to others. >> harris: forensics taking apart police crime scenes, children killed today, we go to another expert we trust. ted williams, a former d.c. police detective, by phone. ted, thank you for being with us. ted, i would ask you first to -- what you've learned about this and the story has changed in the last hour or so as the number of dead has risen. what your experience tells you we should be prepared for in this.

>> here we go again. as you know, harris, we had the parkland 17 killed, and now we've got 8 to 10 here. and many injured. it seems to be just a sad, vicious cycle of unexpected killings here in these various schools. what has happened right now, lawyer enforcement is having to do, put together a case, to try and determine the motive behind this, they're trying to determine if there are other individuals that are actually involved. it is my understanding, and this is unconfirmed that, he may have had a sawed-off shotgun and a pistol and that he may have, and again this is unconfirmed, walked into this classroom, said "surprise" and opened fire. these are things that are just unexpected.

and we think about it, harris, these are innocent young people in a classroom trying to get an education. herb it is, they are -- here it is they are targets and under siege. it's very troubling. >> harris: as a police officer, it seems, and you probably heard my conversation briefly previously with pat brosnan, seems there's an uptick. when you look at the last six months, certainly those numbers are jarring. and how often this is happening. if police officers, identifying this before it happens, is critical. there were so many because dropped in parkland. we don't know the total story of what they knew about these two people who have been apprehended and what they didn't know. how are things changing at the detective level to prevent, not just answer to. >> well, i think what you find throughout the country is every time that we have one of these kinds of carnage, massacres, law

enforcement officers from all over the country come together and they try to put into place situations that would assist them, if in fact they're faced with this kind of carnage they're faced with at the santa fe high school, this morning. it is not easy, and what is going on harris, we have a lot of copycats and we have a lot of people who don't mind being shot or going out as long as they can have their five seconds of fame. and so what has happened in most of the school districts is they're trying to put a psychological pattern of what makes up these kinds of individuals. that's not easy. >> melissa: this is melissa francis. my own children's school they have tried to take mat nears their own hands, there's a single point of entry. when the kids enter, they shake

each child's hand, look them over as they're going n not sure the kids really know what's being done is being done for security. there's a long hallway they go down, there's no other way to get in or out of the school. the front door is locked at all times. it doesn't feel like a lockdown but you can tell if you have anned educated eye and you look around what the purpose is. i wonder, in a city, if that is possible. we have the tall buildings and they're attached on either side to other buildings, aren't as many ways in and out. how do you set up that kind of safety if you're running a school, but as we look at the aerial photos of where this took place it's open on every side. how do you fortify a school in a way that isn't putting barbed wire around the outside if there are multiple sort of angles at it. >> it isn't easy. the way you described your children's school, i also think

that that in and of itself could be dangerous. it can be dangerous for many different reasons. one, if you had a fire in that institution, it would be very difficult for students to be able to get out if they're going through just one door. on the other hand, if you have an active shooter that wants to get into the school, and try to remember with the one in santa fe, it may be, i don't know this, that he was, in fact, a student there. i think that has been reported. if he was, he himself would have access to the school. >> melissa: he would but somebody would notice him going in with a large weapon like the one we're describing n fairness to the schools here, they have fire exits, just that there are alarms. go ahead. >> i understand. but that's just it, you don't always, aren't able to notice some one. can you notice them if they have a large weapon. if some one has a gun and going into the school and they are

students, it may not, unless you are inspecting their backpack and unless are doing a patdown search each and every student, you aren't going to be able to actually get that kind of a person. and it seems as though this person here, at this school, i don't know if he had a sawed-off shot gun and he had a pistol he well could have hidden those things even if some one was at the front door to look people or students up and down. it's just, there's no 100% way of keeping students safe, unfortunately, in schools. >> harris: as you and i have covered, ted, incidents like this, we've covered terror incidents together on the air, with each time you are always able to tell us how things are different this time. and i'm wondering if this has become something that local police are going to need some help with in terms of stopping this. i interviewed a young man who was born around the time

columbine happened and he went to parkland high school. and not much has changed in his lifetime. where do we take our protection in dealing with issues like, you know, talk about weaponry, but talk about the human issue of this. the fillures that maybe have -- failures that have happened, we don't know this young man or these people's mental capacities. but we know that about parkland. >> well, you know, harris, there's always warning signs, and there may be macro or micro in nature. it goes back to that, what students have to learn to do is to really look out for each other. if they have a student that they believe may well be on the edge, they need to be able to report that person to a counselor. law enforcement are doing their job, they're training, and also students and faculty at various

schools, like at melissa's school, i would assume there are drills telling students what to do or when. but the question is, we are reacting, but we can't, unfortunately, be proactive because we don't know when and if these things are going to happen. >> melissa: me l-- >> harris: melissa? >> melissa: there is a profile seeing students going down that road, a lot of times it's difficult to interact with parents. it's got to be a multi prong approach at this point, right? >> absolutely. we need parents, educators, and the community as a whole to get involved. the community, melissa, is always concerned about typing of students. when i use the word "typing," maybe we have a student that may act strange but would never bring a gun or a weapon into a school and commit a crime.

and if that student is overly tight, then unfortunately that student is overburdened with his own problem. what happens here is collectively the community, law enforcement, and school administrators have to work together to try to keep these things from happening like what has happened here at santa fe high school. >> harris: ted williams, former d.c. police detective, we'll ask you to stand by with your expertise and experience. something has developed here and we need to go to one of our correspondents, lauraingle. reportedly some sort of explosive devices coming into play in the story. laura what are you finding out? >> we are just getting information from the santa fe independent school district, just tweeted out that possible explosive devices have been located at the school, and off-campus. at this point, harris, law enforcement who is already on

scene have been brought in to render those devices safe. the school is being evacuated. if anybody sees anything that is suspicious they are asking people to call 911. this is a developing situation that has just unfolded in the last few moments. we don't know where these possible devices were located on campus. but we do know that some have been found campus and both off campus. >> harris: can i step in, i wonder if there is a greater presence from others outside that sheriff's department. do we know that yet? when you talk about devices found off campus, now you need a broader reaction of first responders. >> absolutely. we know that this is an all hands on deck situation multijurisdictions are involved at this point. who is involved at this point we don't know. we know that they have gone on, they've been doing the sweep, they found something, enough to vak wait the school, found something off -- evacuate the school. could it be at one of the homes of one of the people in custody,

we don't know. certainly, that is a developing situation. real quick, we also got an update from the hospital, the three victims, one is a middle aged man in critical, in the operating room right now. another person, one under the age of 18, possibly a male with a gunshot wound to the leg a female who had a gunshot wound to the leg said to be in good condition. we're keeping a close eye on the hospital as well. >> harris: laura engle, we'll come back to you as you learn about the explosives found on the campus. let dpoez to danny colson, a former fbi director, hostage rescue team commander. joining us by phone. these are disturbing details because we thought that perhaps the situation might be over. mr. colson, what are your thoughts at this point? >> well, my main thought, very frankly, is that schools have to take this stuff very seriously. my company does a lot of active

shooter training especially for schools. we recommend that every door in the school be locked. so people can indiscriminately walk around the school shooting people. you have to make it as difficult as you can to interrupt those things, and keep them from happening. >> harris: how do you make it difficult? >> i'm perfectly prepared to discuss this. the school needs to be in lockdown. teachers have ability with fobs and things to move around the school. anybody that walks into the school has to go through a locked door. if not they have free run of the school until their adrenaline rush stops and they're apprehended or? sometimes commit suicide. you want to buy time. these things last 6 to 9ments. if you get who a lockdown situation you are safer. if you start with a lockdown situation you have a better chance of having more people survive. we have had situations where an active shooter goes to schools,

couldn't get in and left. they have left the premises because they couldn't get into the school. this sounds sinister, we want schools to be open. >> harris: we want people to be safe. >> we want them to live through it. school is supposed to be a place to come home from. >> harris: an interesting concept if i understand you correctly. almost like protecting a military base which you don't just walk on. you're saying make that a harder target from the get-go like a lockdown all the time. >> absolutely. and i have a lot of clients that go this. they listen to us when we talk about these things. first thing you have to do is believe it's going to happen to you. and one of the big problems of active shooter situations is that when things start happening people are in disbelief. the same idea applies to preparation. believe that you are a potential victim, make your school safe, i love resource officers that are armed. that's super important. a lot of schools aren't comfortable with that. but the main premise here is

that you buy time until the adrenaline rush of the guy or girl is on subsides then things get better. they give up or they commit suicide when the police get there. in my schools i look to have them locked down. by the time you come through the front gate when you walk up to that front door, you can't get in. they don't let you in. until they know what your purpose there is. >> melissa: way tonight tell our audience we are waiting for a police -- i want to tell our audience we're waiting for a police briefing, we'll bring it to you life. a lot of parents are at home feeling frightened and powerless. you can go to your children's school ask the questions, what should people be looking for as a parent, what should they be asking for at their children's school to see if it's being kept safe? >> very good question. first thing you go to the school administrator and say what are you doing to keep children safe. and think about this, we --

[broken audio] >> harris: we're losing him, technology will drop out and we have had people be able to join us and share their expertise and we appreciate that. we're inside of a two-minute warning now, police briefing. i want to bring this up to speed. the santa fe independent school district put out a tweet possible explosive devices have been located at the school and off campus. santa fe high school, outside of the houston area. law enforcement is in the process of rendering these devices safe. school has been evacuated. call 911 if you see anything suspicious items. you know, as we look at the situation, let's recap. when we see the sheriff's department of harry county step up to the lectern there, they will be filling in some gaps. here's what you need to know ahead of that. the last time we heard from the sheriff, we learned that between 8 and 10 mostly students had perished in the school shooting at santa fe high school. we learned that there were at

least 12 people injured, three of them hospitalized, and from laura engle moments ago we learned one of those three hospitalized is a middle aged man in critical condition in the o.r., operating room right now. we don't know what the injuries are but we know they're critical. we also know that this is a school of about 1,400 students. that is a large, sprawling campus for a high school. a beautiful place in the center of santa fe. a place where kids go and thrive and it's been listed on different guides as being a great learning institution. some one wuked in to the art class, an art class at that school with what we believe with its say was a shotgun and opened fire. melissa? >> melissa: wondering how the weapon got into the school, a lot of questions surrounding the event are about that. some one pulled the fire alarm to alert the rest of the school. some students wondered if it was a drill.

they immediately heard from other students to run. these are the reports from inside. one child saying i don't even want to go to graduation now. heartbreaking. >> harris: we see the officials walking up to the lectern. as they begin the process we're all going to watch the update live. and hope to learn more about those explosive devices immediately. let's watch. >> good morning. we share with you that we experienced an unthinkable tragedy at your high school in morning. we are groving the loss of members of our santa fe family. we have received an outpouring of support from across the state and we appreciate your continued prayers for your students, our staff, and our community. i'm going to turn it over to our chief of police, walter ronns to share with you key tails that we have at this -- details that we have at this time. thank you. >> as you are aware a horrific event occurred at santa fe high school. this team the campus has been

cleared of all students and staff members and the students and staff have been relocated to reunification sites and are in the process of being reunited with their families. we're at the operational stages now, investigations, we know there's been at least six transported including one santa fe isd police officer that has been shot. we have one suspect in custody and one person of interest detained. anyone with information regarding this event is asked to contact our santa fe isd command center at area code 409-927-3310. we can confirm multiple fatalities, believed to be fewer 107b at this time -- 10 at this time. we will not release any other information until we have a confirmed number. injured students and staff have been transported to area hospitals. any parents and family members

can go to the alamo gym located at 13306 state highway 6, for any additional information regarding their students. our primary focus at this point in the investigation has been to secure the schools and evacuate all the students to the evacuation relocation facility. there are multiple agencies on site to support our district and our community such as the fbi, the atf, texas department of public safety, and other area law enforcement agencies and first responders. there have been explosive devices found in the high school and surrounding areas adjacent to the high school. because of the threat of these explosive items, community members should be on the lookout for any suspicious items and anything that looks out of

place. do not touch any items that look out of place and immediately call 911. so that the appropriate authorities can respond. our thoughts and prayers go out to our students, staff, and our community. please pray for sfid. >> the chief of santa fe pd, my thoughts and prayers are with those affected by this event this morning. i just want to reiterate that all community members, keep a vigilant watch around the areas you know your neighborhoods, for any suspicious items that you may see. please call 911. there is, like i said, been confirmed reports of explosives found on the campus and off the campus. that's our main concern to keep the community safe. please make the call if you see

something suspicious and some one will respond to assist. that's all i have. god bless. >> i'm mark henry, the county judge of galveston county texas, chief elected official. galveston county is providing asis tans through galveston county sheriff office and district attorney's office to the santa fe isd police agencies and city of santa fe. don't have much else to add. i do want to emphasize this is a tragic loss of life this morning, first call came in at 7:32, i received my first phone call about 7:45. it has been a difficult scene, difficult time for everyone involved. again, i ask that you pray for the people who have suffered injury and loss today. and i want to emphasize, again, i was just informed recently they did find suspected material off campus. so it's not isolated to the high school campus. anything you see that looks suspicious please don't touch it, call 911.

we have mayors of santa fe, we have the retiring mayor, incoming mayor. >> mayor jeff tarambrela, we thank the law even forcement and emergency responders that came so quickly to the aid of the santa fe isd and community. i'm just asking everyone out there to pray and put their thoughts and prayers into all of the people affected and community to heal through this situation. thank you. >> i'm mayor jason tabor, please pray for santa fe and if you see anything suspicious call 911, we appreciate the prayers, for our community, is at a loss right now. >> i don't know that we can answer any questions at this point. we'll wrap up. we do expect the governor to be landing at the scene any minute, i'll head back over to the scene.

i'm sure we will have a press conference in the next couple of hours. >> thank you guys. . thank you. >> harris: you just heard that kx gv greg abbott is on this way there. we can report that the governor just wrapped up a phone call with president trump. our president offering his condolences for those affected by the shooting at santa fe high school. the president pledged to work with governor abbott and provide all appropriate federal assistance. we learned lot from that news conference, police chief first off, confirmed those explosive devices on and off the campus. then we heard that further from just about everybody who stepped up to the mike from sheriff's department to more police officers to mayors. this is a wider situation, now, than just the high school because devices have been found off campus. one santa fe isd police officer among the injured and hospitalized. we knew that. again, confirmed, again.

one suspect, one detailed, fewer than ten fatalities. earlier it was between 8 and 10. we don't know, confirmed-wise, that that number is moving. we know off the record, i shouldn't say off the record, unconfirmed that that number has moved. we'll bring what you we can as we firm it up. they talked about the ee re-unification site set up, where families can await their students and administrators to arrive off-site. with the explosive devices onsite as you heard laura engle reported, they wanted everybody off the cam', but you especially now, not near the building or near the site. on the couch with us today we have jason chaffetz, a member of congress, sat on the homeland security committee. and you know, as we watch this, it's hard to imagine that they can do this on their own. is there a part where homeland, i know about the fbi where others insert themselves at this point, or called upon? >> yes, and it looks, this is

still an active situation. i mean what i took from that press conference is not only do you first and foremost get the families reunified with their kids, and some going through grieving that they never expected to go through this morning. but you have a very active situation. you're going to have the local police, then have the county, then have the state, you're going to have federal resources in the atf, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms, the fbi come in and help with you certain aspects. homeland security has assets that they can as well. but you got to be able to quickly do the forensics. because you have to be able to figure out where this pattern is going. especially, you have got a small community there, i understand it's just south of houston, which is a big metropolitan area. you have got who knows what explosive devices sitting around, that's going to scare the community as a whole. never mind the shock that they're obviously going through.

of we learned from the principle deputy spokesperson for the white house ross shaw about this phone call between president trump and texas governor abbott. i know that condolences are expressed. but something else, too, there are those materials that support that comes to bear. can you talk about where we might be going. because you're right, we don't know if they're going to be able to identify all of the explosive devices immediately. >> no, but you have a lot of as pets within the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms, a massive presence. in texas. but you also have things that come out of quantico with the fbi where they can quickly do ballistics checks. you can figure out where these guns are purchased, they should be able to recover those guns, sounds like, if they have somebody apprehended. the other thing that is interesting, such a breaking part of this story, is they have this person of interest. did this person open a back door, did they help plan -- >> harris: outside of the shooting suspect? >> outside of the shooting suspect. you know, if they have a person

of interest, they're obviously making great progress. you saw chief braun there, i think with great discipline, and you see the massive presence there. but probably more important is as they fan out, and what they're doing within the community. but, you know, from president trump on down, there is nobody that's going to hold back in providing assistance to make sure they have the resources necessary. >> melissa: as people watch this, their fury turns to washington and lawmakers and why can't you do something about this, why has nothing changed. you can feel the chorus already. is that fair? >> i do think it's fair. i know people who are maybe in those positions don't want to necessarily feel the heat. but they should feel the heat. there's, look, i went to shortly after sandy hook, i was reflecting back and just this last hour, i sat there, invited by a news program to go and i think what has changed between sandy hook and now. not a whole lot.

but obviously this person is deranged. i can't diagnose everything, it's breaking news. but there's something really wrong with this person, whatever that they did. so mental health and communities, i think they do need help and support in trying to figure out best practices, what can they do, how do we diagnose this person and deal with it. there's a politically correct culture, particularly for people less than 18 years old, to say, well, let's just keep it going in the system instead of dealing with it. and, again, we don't know enough in this particular situation, but i look at the other shootings, and i think a lot of that could have been addressed. and it's going to take money, funding, and need to take support on both sides of the is a toll address it. >> harris: you mention the support, you and i full disclosure, talking live at the top of the hour, you said what you saw was more talk than action. >> yes. >> harris: what does it take to push the action? >> i personally --

>> harris: it shouldn't be political. >> what i really believe, is that the mental health aspect is not being addressed. most of that happens at the local community. it happens in a county by county situation. i don't think the federal government is going to be able to come in and solve all of that. but unfortunately, we just keep having a series of these. this is not going away. and this is a big school, decent community. >> harris: 1,400 students. that's a lot to account for in a regular day. and then you're talking about try to reunify them. put them together with their families and with others. >> this is happening at 7:30 in the morning in an art class. i just, you know, i can't even imagine your child going to school and then having this happen. it just, there has to be a way to prevent this. there has to be. >> harris: i want people to know what they're looking at on the

screen right now. if you just tuned in and heard what's happening in texas, on social media and seeing the hash tag pray for sfisd, santa fe independent district school, and you heard police chief say it, let's just reset for just a moment here. this morning, some one walked on to a campus of 1400 students, in a city outside of houston, a beautiful campus, with what with its describe as a shotgun and opened fire inside of an art class. when the barrage of bullets stopped police tell us between 8 and 10 people were killed. more than 12 injured, among them an officer who was there on campus. one other adult. now we've learned a little bit about their injuries. the middle-aged man is in critical condition, who was shot, is hospitalized, one of the three, we're told is in the operating rom.

as we look at this campus today, this school shooting has reminded us, again, that there are targets. and melissa you and i have been talking with experts this hour, police officers, detectives, former fbi director, about the target nature of a school when you have those among them who might not be stable, who might be ang sgri, who certainly are dangerous -- might be angry, are armed with whatever they're armed with. and not stopped at the door. >> melissa: we're also hearing that in this instance there were multiple explosives found, both on and off-campus. which goes to the saying of trying to, as people come through the door, seeing whether they're armed or not n this case they also planted sploesives, it appears, at this point, those are the reports we're getting. they're asking people in the area if they see things they don't know what they are, they need to call 911. but there were obviously seems

like at this point, planning and extensive thought went into this. >> harris: and also at this point, what jason chaffetz was telling us, joins us today on "outnumbered" with breaking news, when you broaden it out and take this off-campus, with these devices, finding those is going to depend on everybody. a host of first responder reaction but also wider in the community. i understand now from our control room we're getting emotional reaction, of course it would be. first take, let's watch together. >> i was scared for her, i didn't know what to think. i shouldn't be going through this, it's my school. i visited my daily life, i did not realize that. and i was scared to go back. it's just not something you should feel throughout the day, being scared. especially somewhere, where we pledge allegiance, like, i don't know.

shouldn't feel like this. >> you saw the kid walking down the hall, looked suspicious, like he said he had a gun, went down the hall walking casually. then pulled. fire alarm, we all went outside. we heard three shots. i grabbed her, we're all running, i ran toward the trees, i didn't want to be in sight of whoever is shooting. then i called her, my mom. then i heard four more shots, then we ran to the car wash over mere. -- over here. >> terrifying. she called me and said there's shots at school. thank god we're not far away, i turned around, stayed on the phone with her, told her to stay quiet, stay calm, to breathe. and just waiting and waiting and waiting. finally, they were leading them out of the school. thank god she's okay. >> harris: brand new, lechlt of the screen is live, a hospital

news conference on the victims. let's watch. >> yes, the last -- the younger patient is a male. >> can you confirm he is a student. >> i do not know that information. >> was involved with the santa fe shooting. >> yes, came from that area. >> do you have any idea of the type of gun? >> i don't have that information. i can tell you that the male patient that's in the operating room had a gunshot wound to the arm. the male patient that's under 18 had a gunshot wound to the leg. and the female patient in the operating room had a gunshot wound to the leg also. >> the male, can you confirm, it was in the arm? >> yes. >> we were told there was some kind of -- >> it was close to his chest. upper arm, yes. >> is he still in the operating room? >> yes. >> in summery. >> yes. >> how long will it take -- >> we have no idea how long his

surgery will be. >> which when you think about it being critical with a gunshot to the arm, was an artery hit he did suffer significant blood loss, that's why he's in critical condition. >> are the other two patients out of surgery? >> the female, middle-aged, in the o.r. now. with her leg wound. and the 16-year-old, i don't think we anticipate that he will need to go to the operating room. >> is the 16-year-old awake, talking? >> i have not seen him, i do not know. >> what about the woman? >> she's been taken to the o.r. >> prepping for surgery? >> yes. >> the 16-year-old does not need surgery, can we assume it was like a graze, more a topical thing -- >> i don't have the details about his exact injury, other than wound to the leg. they're middle aged adult, i don't have the specific aims. i think higher, probably 50s.

>> all three patients came from santa fe high school? . the first patient arrived at our league city hospital, taken from what i understand by her husband in private automobile and transferred by ambulance for our level one trauma center. the helicopter brought the second patient from the scene. and then the third patient arrived by ambulance from the scene. [inaudible] >> we have not heard that we will be receiving more patients. tragically. [question inaudible] >> our staff are busy taking care of these patients and are standing by ready for other patients to come in. that's what is going in there right now. i think there are a lot of personal feelings people are having, as a father of a 16-year-old at friendswood high school, this hurts. >> earlier you were talking, tell us what's going through your mind.

everyone is feeling the way you're feeling right now. >> just it's a horrible tragedy, our hearts go out to those folks in santa fe and the high school students and their teachers. and their administration. and we're doing the best we can to be a community partner to take care of them. i think we're going to continue to do that, and that's what we're here for, that makes me feel better about being able to do that. >> when you say you were waiting for more patients, hoping, tragically of course -- maybe there were more survivors? >> we haven't heard. we were understanding that there would be additional patient. we made ourselves ready. >> have any of the relatives of the people been here? >> there are some relatives who have shown up, some don't have students here, patients here, but they don't know where to go. that information about the family reunification center at the alamo gym in santa fe is

very important for parents to understand that that is probably the best location to go to locate a child. >> have you taken in patients at the hospital -- >> no, we have gotten support, offers of support from colleagues like m.d. anderson called and said if you need us we can help you. but we haven't talked to hospitals that have received other patients. >> do you have crisis type drills? >> we do drills probably quarterly to keep our level one trauma center status intact. it's sort of an expectation that we practice for these sorts of situations. so that's why we're good at it, when we're ready at all times. >> can you briefly describe the level one trauma center? >> the level one trauma center, four levels of trauma centers. level one is the highest level, it means that surgeons are always available, blood products are always available, o.r.s are

always available. there's lesser degrees of resources available at lesser ranked e.r.s. >> level one trauma center near santa fe high school? >> are we the closest level one trauma center, yes. there are three in the area. >> the youngest one, have they told you what it was like in there? no i have not. m.d. anderson is bringing the blood van, they will be there at 11:30, set up and take blood donations today and if we need them tomorrow they will be available tomorrow. >> you can use help? >> yes. >> i think what dr. marshall said, that we have one patient who is critical and actively going to surgery.

the other two are stable and they're in fair condition. >> can we ask are those bullet wounds shotgun wounds, pellets? we're hearing different things about the gun use. do you know anything? >> i'm not available to that at this time. >> how long has he been in surgery this time? >> it's difficult to give an estimate, the next update we can provide that information. >> how are they feeling, are they feeling good about what's happening in the surgery room right now with the patient? >> so, he is critically ill, and he is stable. critically ill but stable in the o.r. [question inaudible] >> i'm not aware of that, of the number of surgeons in there. >> do you know if law enforcement has interviewed or got information from any of the

patients? >> i'm not aware of that information. >> on another note, they have located some ancillary explosive devices and they're trying to render those, make them inert. do you have readiness for that situation? >> absolutely, so as dr. marshall suggested we are level one trauma center, adequate number of staff and resources available to take care of those patients. if the need arises. >> you said that earlier, you haven't met with the actual patients? >> no. >> no. >> do you plan on doing that? >> at some point i hope to be able to go by and see the patients. that may not be today. >> is one of them a police officer? >> that is our understanding. >> so you can confirm that the patient in critical condition is the resource officer that was shot at santa fe? >> that is our understanding.

>> the resource officer, police officer -- >> i don't know his technical status. >> he was one of the officers at the school. >> that's my understanding. >> when will the next briefing be? >> we can ask mr. reyes, raul? when will be our next briefing? >> they're talking about 3:00, a better location where can you get better sound also. we'll let you know. but probably somewhere in front of the hospital or maybe inside the hospital itself. >> that's where it will be at 3:00? >> maybe, i'll let you know. we're about to make a decision. we'll let you know to mick a better locale for everyone. >> before you go can i get a spelling, correct spelling of one of your names? >> david marshall. >> gulshan sharma. >> harris: we have been watching

the hospital briefing and learning that the doctors are very emotional at this time. that one doctor on the right of the screen, at u.t.m.d. health, university of texas medical branch, said they have the three patients that we've been telling you about this hour. one of them they believe is the resoeshs officer who was -- resource officer shot close to the chest but actually in the arm in surgery. his loss a significant amount of blood. another patient under the age of 18, shot in the leg a woman shot in the leg as well. that doctor saying we will not be receiving any more patients, tragically. don't want to read anything into that as we learn more. but he choked up. we will have to chase down the facts on whether or not there are some injuries that have become fatalities, we don't know. let's bring in texas attorney general ken paxton joining me by phone. top law enforcement in the state of texas. the governor headed there now. mr. paxton, your thoughts. >> well, obviously another

horrific shooting in texas, our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families. it's just tragic that we're dealing with this again. >> harris: from a law enforcement point of view there's so many questions, attorney general, we want to ask. because we see the situation play out, now, seven times since the beginning of 2018. what can be done? you are at the top. what can be done? >> you know, there's often tooep talk about more regulation. this guy who was willing to kill people is not going to follow a gun regulation. you are going to have to defend schools. you have to make sure we have trained people in schools. churches, and maybe businesses. the only deterrent. that's the only way i think to stop this from happening, mitigate the damage. >> harris: interesting we had a guest on earlier who said that schools should permanently be in lockdown mode. he said too bad for the kids if they can't move around as much

but that way you're in the mode where somebody really stands out if they're not part of the program. >> yeah, and i don't know if that's the answer. i just know that in schools in other countries, like israel, they protect their kids. and they've been effective at doing it. i don't know why we can't be effective, we haven't put the resources and the energy behind it. clearly as you said, 7 of those shootings in just since 2018 started, we need to do the same thing that the israelis have ton. >> harris: i just got back from there, i know what you're talking about. in fact with some of the other challenges with security, they tend to lock down everything over there until the period of time where they feel like they can let it pass. i want to hit you with this, the deadliest texas mass shooting dating back to 1991, actually 1966, university of texas, austin. not school shootings necessarily, but that was on the university of texas campus. you know, we mourn with you

today, this is a tough history. >> it is a tough history. obviously, you can't stop crazy people or really evil people from plotting these plans. all we can do is prepare the best we can. and try to stop them or at least once they've started have resources available to lower the casualty and death count. >> harris: attorney general paxton, i have heard it asked of parents whom i've interviewed after shootings like this, is this an act of domestic terrorism. how does the law look at this? >> you know, i don't know. it doesn't necessarily look at it as terrorism. but i don't know why it shouldn't. that's exactly what this is. it doesn't just affect those families, it affects every family in the school. and then it sends, you know, chilling effect across the nation. and it creates a terror for all kinds of families who are

concerned about this happening at their school. >> harris: then we have the reports confirmed for us from the chief of police, i have jason chaffetz on the couch reminding me this is still an active situation because of those explosives found both on and off the campus. what about that segment of what you're following right now? >> this noz doubt they're going through the school trying to clear the school. my understanding they have gotten about half way through that. it's even more challenging if there are sploesives off the campus, you don't know where to look to make sure that you don't have explosives somewhere else. >> harris: to ask the public to look, you know, just a short time ago your state was dealing with the situation with packages being left places. and now you have to ask the public to look for something. can you help us with what we would be looking for? because i would imagine from your office on down the note has been sent, look out for this.

>> you know it's the same thing with the austin bombings, sounds a little almost vague, but look for sus spishs activity, to -- suspicious activity, look for boxes you aren't familiar with, don't open anything that you don't know is yours, verify. if you aren't sure, you know, call local police, call 911 and have them come look at it for you. it's much better to be safe than to risk harming yourself or somebody else in your family. >> harris: what is your office doing with regards to this right now? >> so, i have sent people down there, they will be coordination between both state, federal, because i'm sure you have good fbi and atf there as well. then local police. what the us a tip bombing showed and some of the other horrific things, on you law even forcement have done an amazing job coordinating between all branchs much government to come to a conclusion and find the suspect pretty fast and resolve the situation.

>> harris: attorney general ken paxton joining us. i know the governor of texas is headed there, he had a conversation with the president a short time ago, you talk about the resources that you're sending there as well. i'm joined on the couch, attorney general, by melissa francis and she has a question for you. >> melissa: do you know anything about those explosive devices? it seems like if you're sending people down in that direction, that's the part of the story that is still outstanding, as the you be known. they have asked people -- the unknown. they have asked people to call in if they see anything. what have you heard? >> so, nothing that i can share, all can i tell you is that is the process that law enforcement is going through, just clearing the building, and making sure that they have everything out of there. then doing an analysis, obviously will come over the next couple of days. >> melissa: as the chief law enforcement officers a lot of parents and people in the community are looking to you and