follow us at -- mark levin is up next. i'm steve hilton. see you next sunday. t t t t t . . mark: hello, america, i'm mark levin, this is "life, liberty & levin" and we're here tonight to discuss an issue that i think is of grave importance. what happens if the electrical grid goes down, and is it easy to take it out, and who might take it out and what can we do to protect it? this is a very, very important program as far as i'm concerned. i brought in the best they can think of, dr. peter pry.

how are you? >> very well. >> have you written on it, you testified, executive director of the task force on national and homeland security, this electromagnetic pulse, emp and other threats on an accelerated basis, directed the united states advisory board on congress on policies to counter weapons of mass destruction. you must be staying up at night. you must have nightmares. intelligence officer with the cia responsible for analyzing soviet and russian strategy and operational plans including emp threats. let's begin at the beginning, what's emp? >> electromagnetic pulse is a super energetic radio base, so much power, it can destroy electronics across a huge area. in fact, across the entire world in the case of a superstorm, a solar superstorm, emp can be made by nature, by the sun, by a solar superstorm or mand by a nuclear weapon. and it can be made by a

nonnuclear weapon as well. in the case of a sun, what we're concerned about is the once in a century, once every 150 years solar superstorm, we have geomagnetic storms that happen every year that affect countries at high northern latitudes. but once every century 150 years ago, nasa's estimate, a super storm will happen that will create an emp so powerful it can destroy electronics across the entire world and put billions of lives at risk. mark: electromagnetic pulse. >> yes. mark: is that what electricity does? >> think of it this way, i think everybody had the experience of driving down the highway with the radio on and pass under a high power line and you lose the radio and come back up on the other side. that's all an emp is, electromagnetic field, right? except much more powerful than the field that you experience on the highway. now imagine there is so much

energy in the field, when you go through, it all the electronics in the car are destroyed. imagine the field is not localized to a small spot on the highway but covers all north america and destroy electronics across the entire area. that could be accomplished if you had a single nuclear weapon and detonated it above the atmosphere say at 300 kilometers, up in outer space. this is a different nuclear tact than the one people are used to thinking about. it wouldn't destroy a city, no fallout, no blast effects. if you were standing on the ground directly beneath the explosion and detonating overhead at 300 kilometers, it's in the vacuum of space. you wouldn't hear the explosion. there would be no blast effects that would reach the ground, no radioactive fallout. mark: have we ever had one of these solar scenarios that you're talking about? u said every 100 or 150 years? >> yes, back in 1859, there was a solar superstorm we called

the carrington event. and at that time, this was the electronics, cutting edge of electronics of the day. the 1859 telegraph key. all over the world, india, china, africa, north america, we laid the translantic cables that north america and europe were connected for the first time. it was so powerful, viewers will see the simple switch is crude, made of heavy metal and all the rest. telegraph keys were melted. the wooden baits burst into flame. telegraph stations burned down. the telegraph wires burst into flame and caused fires all over the world. pulse was so powerful, it burned the cable out. it had to be replaced. this didn't end civilization in 1859, those were the horse and buggy days, it wasn't an electronic civilation. this is just cutting-edge technology, more or less a

novelty. this switch, this biode is the basis for the electronics, cell phones, computers, operate on the single switch. and they are millions of times more vulnerable to emp than the crude piece of instrumentation. and that would put our civilization at risk if we had a natural emp, if a nuclear emp attack that put all of north america on the --. mark: i want to get to the nuclear scenarios, the terrorist scenarios, but first, you can describe what the electrical grid looks like in this country and who runs the electrical grid in this country? >> sure, we have 3,000 different utilities that run the electrical grid, privately owned. not run by the government. mark: the regional companies that all work with each other? >> yes, that's right. we have our north american grid is divided into three parts, an

eastern grid, a western grid and a texas grid, and canada is part of our grid. canada on the same part of our grid. the eastern and western grid. so it's not just the u.s. grid, it includes canada. and they're all wired together except for texas, which has its own independent texas grid. mark: why is that? came about that way? >> pretty much came about that way. there are regional entities that manage and try to coordinate these various grids and texas decided, you know, decades ago that they wanted to be on their own. mark: these are interlocking grid systems. >> yes. mark: regional systems. >> right. mark: for the flow of electricity. >> that's right. mark: and electricity flows through the cables pretty much above ground below ground? >> that's right, there are extra high-voltage transformers, big transformers, the size of a house, weigh hundreds of tons. there's about 2,000 of them in the north american grid, and most people don't know it but

they start the foundation stones of modern electronic civilization. we cannot survive saida a society without them. they enable us to take electricity from niagara falls and drive it to the end of the city so it can be used locally. the transformers were invented by tesla. all the technology socialed with the grid was invented by tesla in new york, in niagara falls. unfortunately like so many things week don't make fundamental elements of the electric grid in this country anymore, the transformers aren't manufactured in the united states anymore, we have to import them from south korea or germany. and if these transformers were destroyed, it would basically end us as a civilization. they cannot be mass produced. each one has to be made individually by hand. the world, the global production -- mark: you said there is thousands of them. >> 2,000 of them. mark: do we have an inventory

of them? a backup sources for them within our own country? >> we have a small number of replacement transformers, less than 1% in reserve, and in part that's because it's so difficult to replace them. they weigh so much and they're so big, there's only three railway cars in the country that can move the ehv transformer. bridges have to be reinforced, roads widened, that's assuming soety is intact and you haven't lost other parts of the infrastructure. would be the case in the case of catastrophic emp, only 200 a year. the whole world can make 200 a year. mark: how many there are worldwide, do you know? >> probably 10,000 worldwide. and if we were to -- if this country were to lose half of the ehv transformers, it would take the whole world five years to manufacture enough of them, assuming the whole world was not in a blackout, but everything else was working and

i don't think south korea and germany and the chinese and the russians would be so generous in the aftermath of natural emp. that's why the way to think of the dangerous blackouts that we're talking about, they're not temporary blackouts, when you lose transformers and the control systems, another piece of technology that is fundamental to our civilization, the scada, it's a control system that also runs everything. both of these things are vulnerable to emp. if you lose them, that's it for us. mark: let's talk about this. from time to time, in our country, you read of a state or city that's without electricity for a few days. >> yes. mark: maybe a tree has fallen and hit a particular generator or a generator blows up. things like that happen and they're able to put it back together, relatively short period of time, but you can see right there, three, four, five days, there's really a panic in and what you're saying is

imagine this nationwide. >> right. mark: and when you start to think of electricity, everything we do is associated with electricity, isn't it? even if you try and fill up your car, the gas station, the pump, electricity. everything we do is related to electricity, no? >> absolutely. all the critical infrastructures depend upon it. communications, transportation, banking and finance. we did an experiment on the commission and i went to a grocery store and picked up an apple and i wondered how did this apple get on this grocery store in the washington, d.c., area? a simple apple? tracing the history of that apple, it was grown in an orchard in washington, harvested mechanically, it was cleaned and packaged mechanically using electronic systems and electronic assembly belts. put on a refrigerated truck and drove across the country so people locally in washington, d.c. could eat the apple.

simple apple depends upon hundreds of electronic systems in order to deliver it to us. we wouldn't have the apple or any other food. there's only 30 day food supply in the country to feed 320 million people. and water would stop immediately. when you turn on the tap it requires millions of volts in order to deliver that water through your tap, and the xhigs couldn't figure out how would we keep 320 million people alive, no food, no water, possibly for years. we estimate if we had a blackout in this country that lasted one year, possibly the scenario, we could lose 90% of the population to societal decease. mark: people wouldn't be able to get to hospitals. >> the most fundamental things wouldn't work anymore. in the case of nuclear emp attack, airplanes couldn't fly,

100 nuclear react nors this country and need electricity in order to keep themselves cool. mark: what do you say to people who say this sounds like a grand conspiracy. this sounds like fearmongering. you probably get this all the time. >> of course. mark: you probably got it from the obama administration. >> yes, we did. mark: what did the obama administration do in response to these scenarios? >> well, the obama administration, to its credit, took solar emp seriously enough that they formed a task force to study the problem, but didn't want to hear about nuclear emp, and the chairman -- >> the nuclear em sp a nuclear event that wipes out the grid. >> that's right. mark: or a chunk of it. >> detonated at high altitude. if iran got the bomb, it could do it. north korea's got the bomb now and knows about emp and threatened to do it to us. that's exactly why the obama administration didn't want to

know or hear about nuclear emp, they wouldn't meet with the chairman of our commission, dr. william graham, the world's foremost expert on this. he was one of the people that discovered the phenomena in the 1962 star fish prime test when i was in elementary school. imagine not meeting with dr. william graham. it would be like not meeting with albert einstein when he's trying to tell thought nazis could develop the atomic bomb in 1939. that's how irresponsible the administration was. shutting the door on the albert einstein of emp, dr. william graham, not listening to him, not following the reldations, when the commission was reestablished by congress, obama and holdovers did everything they could to sabotage and undermine our work. mark: why? >> emp did not fit into the narratives that they had for trying to sell two of the obama administration's major foreign policy objectives. one was the idea of a world

without nuclear weapons. they were trying to convince the world that nuclear weapons don't have utility. you need hundreds of them, never be able to compete with the united states. that's not true. any nation that gets just one bomb because of emp, basically becomes a nuclear superpower that could threaten the existence of the united states. it didn't fit into the narrative of a world without nuclear weapons. and didn't fit into the narrative about the iran nuclear deal. if iran had one bomb, okay, you know that would defeat the whole purpose of the iran nuclear deal because they wouldn't need dozens or hundreds of bombs, and the verification provisions which are so poor on the iran nuclear deal would be a mortal threat to the existence of the united states. i and other specialists think iran has already got the bomb and probably had one for some years and the capability to do an emp attack. this is something the obama administration didn't want known. didn'tant to talk about. mark: when we come back, i'm going to ask dr. pry, what do we do about this?

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emp. mark: welcome back, dr. peter pry. what would be, before we get to the question of how do we protect ourselves? the question is, we need to figure out how we might be attacked? what are the different scenarios, i'm sure there are many, which a country might want to shut down our electrical grid? >> north korea could shut down our grid by an emp attack off a satellite. they in fact have two satellites orbiting over this country as we speak that pass over us several times a day, at optimal altitude to evade our national defense systems. mark: how would they make an emp field? >> detonate the satellite when it's over the center of the country and the field would propagate from the location of the warhead to the line of sight. mark: it would have to be a satellite with a warhead. >> have to be a satellite with a warhead.

mark: could they do that? >> they could. we're not sure the satellites are not already nuclear armed. the emp commissioner is returned that they may be. and we have recommended the satellites be shot down, the risk to the country is too great to take the chance. they could do it with an icbm, though our national missile defenses will have a reasonable chance of intercepting the icbm. mark: if the north koreans i assume the russians and chinese are far head of them. >> certainly, a vladimir putin threatened doing that launching an icbm over the trajectory that the trajectory the north korean satellites fly. on a south polar trajectory. mark: how come that way as opposed to this way? >> we don't have icbm radars facing south. we're blind in defense in that direction. mark: why? >> we assumed the attacks would come from the soviet union over the north pole, a short

distance to our missile fields and bomber bases and so unfortunately we have left that flank unprotected. there are ideas and recommendations we've made for trying to, in a hurry, close this gap in our defenses. they could also do it by launching a balloon or a short range missile off of a ship, off of a freighter. north korea had a freighter with a nuclear capable missile in the gulf of mexico back in 2013. we only found out about that because they tried getting back to the panama canal and found two of the missiles hidden under hundreds of pounds of bags on the freighter. they demonstrated there are ability to get a freighter with a nuclear capable missile into our backyard and we didn't know about it. those are some of the nuclear emp attacks and scenarios how we might do it. there are other ways of attacking the grid too, and now warfare that russia, china, north korea and iran have conceived.

that includes cyberattacks on the grid. you could take the grid down with cyberattacks, that includes physical sabotage. mark: on the cyberattacks, hasn't russia been poking around already? >> russia, north korea, china, iran, all of them have been poking around. very disappointing, especially during the obama administration. the chinese and the chinese stole tens of millions of records from the office of personnel management in one cyberattack. in another cyberattack, the russians shut down the internet for the joint chiefs of staff that was dedicated to the joint chiefs of staff and interfered with white house internet communications as well for about a week. you know? at the time, there's a big scandal in the press, people talk about it in congress, then time passes and people forget about it. what people need to understand is that what these probing are, let me use an analogy back to history. before world war ii, there was

another new way of warfare called the blitzkrieg, a combined arms operation, combined armor with mobile artillery and airpower. part of the blitzkrieg strategy was a motorcycle corps. the motorcycle range out in front of the armored spearheads looking for weaknesses in the enemy lines. that's what the cyberattacks are now. they're the equivalent of a german motorcyclist sitting on a hill looking at the lines to see where is the response, gauging our responses as part of this. we don't get that we are under attack now by the cyberattacks. because behind the cyberattacks is a possibility of physical sabotage by commandos. non-nuclear emp weapons, so-called radio frequency weapons that can use emp all in combination with the ultimate cyberweapon. russia, china, north korean and iranian doctrine, a nuclear

attack is not an emp attack. the combination of it is irresistible, just like the blitzkrieg that the newsy germany came up with with irresistible and nearly defeated the western democracies in world war ii. if we don't protect our systems, there will be no coming back from it. and the bad guys would win, in their doctrine, they would replace one civilization with anotr in 24 hours. mark: we have the ability to do this to our adversaries and enemies as well, correct? >> well -- >> launching a missile, nuclear missile? exploding it above a particular country and so forth, do we? >> we have the capability, not as good as the russians and chinese and north koreans have, they have probably developed super-emp weapons, specially designed for emp. united states has neglected nuclear forces and we haven't

deployed that kind of warhead. we have warheads can you use any warhead to do an emp attack. we could. we've got cyberoffensive capabilities, physical sabotage capabilities. mark: do we prepare for these things the way our enemies do? >> i wish we did. in terms of offensive capabilities? . >> i wish we did. i don't know whether we do or not. i suspect we don't. the reason i suspect we don't is because we haven't protected ourselves from the enemies offensive capabilities. and if we understood and had put it together and ourselves mastered this new way of warfare and prepared to execute it, i would have to believe we have taken the commonsense precautions to protect ourselves. mark: are committees of congress, the defense committees, the intelligence committees, are they aware of this grave threat you're talking about? they must be, right? >> they are, they are. mark: do they take it

seriously? >> some members of congress do. i should say the congress as a whole does. the emp commission was established. senator ron johnson, the chairman of the senate homeland security committee passed a really important bill in 2016 called the critical infrastructure protection act which directed the department of homeland security to start planning and preparing to protect our country from natural and nuclear emp. so congress takes it seriously, i wish they would take it more seriously. one of the things that was done in the not so serious category is congress decided to close down the emp commission at the end of september in the very month that north korea successfully tested a hydrogen bomb that the north koreans designed for superpowerful emp attack. makes no sense to do that. the commission should have continued if you are serious about this. mark: we'll be right back.

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scheduled for june 12 in singapore. ellicott city, maryland is shifting through debris after a flash flood. witnesses are saying sunday's flood was even worse than two years ago. m kelly wright. now back to "life, liberty & levin.". mark: welcome back. all right, dr. pry, now what can we do to defend ourselves? >> there's really no excuse for the united states to be vulnerable to emp or cybercatastrophes to bring down the grid or physical sabotage. all can be protected against, if you protect against the worst threat. the nuclear emp attack, we've known how to do that for 50 years. the department of defense

protecting military systems using surger and blocking devices and we can do the same thing. mark: what is that? >> a metal box that encloses the structure from the emp getting in at electronics. air force one is a gigantic farrahday cage. mark: and prevents the electromagnetices attacks. >> keeps the electronics inside safe. we can do the same thing for the electric grid. the emp estimated it would cost two to three billion. mark: for the entire grid? >> yes, the entire national grid, which is what we used to give away to foreign aid to pakistan until president trump stopped that exercise. if we took the foreign aid to pakistan -- mark: i don't understand, they spend over $4 trillion a year. >> yes. mark: the gao reports we waste

125 to $250 billion a year. >> that's right. mark: 2 to $3 billion a year, that's mustard money for the federal government. >> i agree. mark: i'm not talking down the money, as far as the federal government goes, that's a pittance, is there a reason that's not slipped into the omnibus bills? >> yes, the electric power industry doesn't want to do anything against the emp, and they have very deep pockets, they own half of k street. they lobby against bills. there's also -- mark: why wouldn't they? it would destroy the entire industry. >> i know. mark: don't believe it will happen? >> they are not experts on emp, okay? and they don't see their jobs in their right as being national and homeland security, they see that as the job of the federal government and also want to have a regulatory environment such as exists now where in effect the electric power industry last critical

infrastructure that regulates itself. and we have many examples from history where industries have put themselves out of business or done things that have seriously harmed customers because they haven't seen it in interests to do so. for example, the zeppelin industry convinced itself it could fly people around in hydrogen gas balloons if they exercise the right operational procedures, had there been a federal aviation administration in the 20s we might still have zeppelin. mark: this is more compelling. we're not talking about regulating, taxing them, doing these sorts of things, talking about protecting the grid in order to protect the american people. it's a national security issue? >> i quite agree. it is a national security issue, the electric power industry is the nerc, the north electrical reliability corporation, not engineers, mostly lawyers at the top, they see their job as to avoid having to do anything that the

feds want to impose upon them in terms of protecting from emp or cyber, even the tree branch threat. the great northeast blackout contacted a power line in 2003 and put 50 million americans in the dark. took a decade of foot dragging before they allegedly did something to improve our security. mark: if the federal government said this is part of infrastructure, wants to spend a tril and a half on infrastructure. >> you are reading my mind. mark: we haven't talked about this. said let's put two or three billion aside for this? >> exactly. that's one of the emp recommendations in the reports that we've put forward in our advice when we have briefed the national security council that emp protection should be made part of the infrastructure or renewal program, and one of the things that we need is an executive agent at the level of the white house, somebody responsible for protecting the national grid and the other critical infrastructures too

from emp, cyber, from all the threats we've been talking about. the chief problem is nobody is in charge of protecting the critical infrastructures. we've never thought about that. mark: what would we do for 2 or $3 billion? >> we would install farraday cages and blocking devices, you can put a surge arrester on the transformer. just like you have it on your computer to protect it from lightning, it will protect against lightning, nuclear emp, emp from the sun. had we done so, it could protect you against all of the worst-case scenarios, not just nuclear emp and cyber, but severe weather like hurricanes. millions of people or hundreds of thousands of people who are made homeless for months by hurricane sandy would have been able to go home earlier if the electric grid had been hardened against nuclear emp because it would have been able to survive the overvoltages that happened during hurricane sandy as a result of high power lines

getting knocked down and transformers being damaged. if you can survive the worst threat, the nuclear emp attack, you will be able to come back much more quickly from the lesser threats. not just for the rare exotic scenario of terrorist nuclear emp attack, it would improve the security on tornadoes, hurricanes, ice storms that cause blackouts. you don't have to be a physicist to see the grid is at risk. if you look at history of blackouts and the long recovery times that are required after there's these hurricanes, you can see there's something wrong. look at puerto rico, you know? you know, puerto rico is still not recovered as a result of the hurricane that went through there. you know, clearly if something like puerto rico is going to absorb the emergency resources of the continental united states to get its recovery, we're going to be in huge trouble if a nuclear emp takes

down the national grid. mark: incredible. >> we've got to do better. mark: don't forget, a reminder, join us every week night on levin tv on conservative review tv, join us that's 844-levin-tv. ♪ you said you're not like me, ♪

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. mark: dr. peter pry. so is there anything else we can do to secure the infrastructure that's involving the grid and moreover, what have been the different -- the obama administration you said wasn't terribly receptive. is the trump administration more receptive? >> i would giveresident trump an a+ on interest and c the coup

catastrophe. he's the first president to include emp in protecting the electric grid and other life-sustaining critical infrastructures from emp. moreover, numerous meetings between the emp commission and the national security council and talked about making emp part of the plans to modernize the critical infrastructure. so the difference between the trump administration and the obama administration is night and day. mark: you meet with the obama national security council. >> they never let us. mark: for eight years? >> no. they never met with the commission, and they weren't interested in implementing. in fact there was a general government accountability office report done in 2015 that showed 0 of the emp recommendations were implemented by the obama administration. not a single one. mark: this commission was created by congress, it's a legitimate commission. >> yes, of course, and the whole purpose of commissions like this is to basically

provide a definitive answer for purposes of public policy about the way forward and the commission system has tended to work well. we have missile defense because of the results of congressional commissions, commission called the marsh commission that laid out the rules to prepare us against cyber warfare. i wish i could say the obama administration followed the advice of the emp commission, that's the point of commission said, we were ignored until the trump administration, and i just hope it's not too late because now, eight years ago, you know, north korea didn't have missiles that could reach the united states, you know, it wasn't testing hydrogen bombs but it is today, and poses a clear threat. mark: is this linking with the notion of our strategic defense initiative and started under reagan and conservatives and

republicans have tried to carry this forward through administrations but it's been a rocky road? >> absolutely. i think improved national missile defense bringing back president reagan's vision through the strategic defense initiative, you know, is one of the solutions. when you're dealing with existential threat like this, an existential threat that could end your civilization, you want belts and suspenders, okay? in addition to hearneding the grid, the best thing would be to stop a warhead from being detonated over your country. we're facing threats from north korea, iran is developing the ballistic missiles, china accelerating development of nuclear missiles. russia just threatened us a month ago with all of these new generation. mark: hypersonic weapons. >> hypersonic weapons that we have no counterparts, too. and nuclear weapons of new design that we have no counterpart to. it would serve them all right if we neutralized all the technology with ronald reagan's

space based missile defense. under the clinton administration, we were ready to go. it's a myth that strategic defense initiative didn't produce anything, it produced several systems including one called brilliant pebbles that could have been deployed during the skwloorgz what was that? >> it was basically a space-based interceptors. there were autonomous space-based interceptors. you could have put up a couple of thousand of them and intercepted during boost phase, grid course and trajectory phase and given you a very high probability of interception. mark: folks need to understand the missiles shoot up into space. >> that's right. mark: and you flatten out and they come down. >> that's right. and brilliant pebbles could have shot at each of the phases and intercepted not just a small threat from north korea but designed to protect us as a shield, a missile shield from a mass attack from the soviet union. and it could have done that. and it would have rendered the

net effect would have been to realize reagan's goal to render nuclear missiles obsolete and created a technological revolution that would have given the advantage to the defender instead of the attacker. we're in a technological phase where the attacker has all the advantages and this puts tremendous pressure on the sides to do a first strike, and particularly for the bad guys, they know they would get tremendous advantages from the first strike. brilliant pebbles, strategic defensive initiative would take that away and put the advantage on the defender and make it risky to attempt a first strike. it would be transitioning from a policy that we have known as mutual shared destruction to a policy i like to call sane. policy i like to call sane. mark: wesemi-annual saler the with savings on the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses and automatically adjusts for effortless comfort. right now during our semi-annual sale, save up to $700 on sleep number 360 smart beds.

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to california schoolsd, need big change. marshall tuck is the only candidate for state superintendent who's done it before. less bureaucracy, more classroom funding. marshall tuck for state superintendent. marshall tuck. . mark: welcome back, we are a nation at least in part of rugget individuals, and some of us want to protect ourselves, we can't just rely on the government. >> that's right. mark: is there a way to do that? >> absolutely. people should have a supply of food and water, have a generator. mark: right there, people say what are you a bunch of nuts? look at hurricanes, people have food and water survive and get

through it, and other people have to wait for the government to drop something from the helicopter? >> that's right. it's unfortunate that so-called survivalists have gotten a bad reputation, my father's generation that lived through the great depression and survived world war ii, all the people, whether republican or democrat, all of them, today we would describe as preppers. they had seen government fail in war and peace and wanted to be the first line of defense for their families and had to be during the great depressionment my father fed his family by collecting wood chucks and heated coal that fell off trains along the railroad tracks. we only lived on a quarter acre, we had a garden, my mother was constantly canning foods against the day of who knows what? a nuclear war, great depression. mark: what about the electromagnetic attack, what can you do for your home or

business? >> the same preparedness that you have for a hurricane or any emergency situation, have a food supply, water supply, medicine. mark: what about the electrical attack on your house, can you have a room protected? >> you could. you could have a metal shed. mark: that's all it takes? >> you could have a -- if you have electrical equipment or medical equipment or communications equipment that you wanted to keep safe. if you had a metal garbage can with a tight fitting lid and put the equipment inside a plastic bag so it doesn't touch the inside, that would mitigate the effects. you should have an emergency generator at your house and don't put it on automatic, leave the switch on manual. so there are things. you could have solar panels which are inherently robust against emp anything to get you off the grid and makes you more self-sufficient would be a way of protecting yourself. and you can also protect your

state. people shouldn't have the impression, shouldn't wait for washington. all the solutions don't have to come from washington. if you got a governor in your state or the state legislature to require utilities within your state to protect the state grid, even if the grid went down, you would be able to protect your state and be able to recover from a worst case emp if that state took the appropriate precautions. i've written a book called blackout wars that is a manual to describe how can you go about doing that and get your state protected. state protected. mark: we'll be right back. i got scar tissue there. same thing with any dent or dings on this truck. they all got a story about what happened to 'em. i could feel the barb wire was just digging into the paint. two bulls were fighting, hit the truck. another ding, another scratch, another chapter in the story. chevy silverado. the most dependable, longest-lasting, full-size pickups on the road. it's the chevy memorial day sales event! get a total value of over $10,000 on this silverado all star when you finance with gm financial.

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it's what's on the outside that counts. and we know the farther away you get, the closer together you end up. we know the great outdoors. we love the great outdoors. bass pro shops and cabela's. where great gear, good people, fair prices and an experience like no other all come together. save on great gear during the go outdoors event and sale. plus free skills workshops and free fishing at our catch and release pond this weekend. mark: doctor, what do you say to people who are saying it's interesting but scaremongering

in far-flung and i'm not that worried about it? >> the north koreans don't get scaremongering. they think it's a real threat. the russians and chinese and they'll know about it. i imagine people said that same thing before pearl harbor happen. in fact, we know they did. 90% of the american people didn't think there would be world war ii until it happened. the day before 911 happened if you would've asked the intelligence community and the bright lights in the mainstream media and opinion makers they would've said that something like 911 happening would've been impossible. i know that as a strategic culture one of the big disabilities we have is a nation of optimists. we look at the bedside. then we pick ourselves up leading from the floor after the worst happens. you know, i beg the american people to pay attention. read the commission reports. it's real and it happens this time we will get no second chance. the only adequate response for this is to protect our critical life sustaining structures happens. mark: do you think they take it

seriously? congress takes it seriously and the only issue is whether we take it seriously. >> i'm bill hemmer in for chris wallace. will it still happen? >> we are looking at june 12th in singapore. that hasn't changed. move ago long pretty well. >> we will discuss the about face by the president after one day of canceling summit. two top senators roy blunt of missouri and chris coons of delaware. president trump and his legal team call to go question the mueller investigation suggesting the fbi improperly spied on his campaign. >> if they had spies in my