>> that's incredible, look at those pictures. that was fun. i think you for joining us. >> "outnumbered" starts right now. >> sandra: fox news alert, president i'm confirming the vice chairman of north korea is headed to new york for talks. you will be the highest ranking north korean official to visit the company since 2,000 as the president suggests there is a lot of new help that is it will take place. this is "outnumbered." i am sandra smith. here today, harris faulkner. town hall headed in a fox news contributor, katie pavlich. democratic strategist and fox news contributor, jessica tarlov in joining us on the couch, fox business pinker david as men and he is "outnumbered." if >> david: so happy to be back. thank you all. how could you not be happy? >> jessica: your daughter just got married.

just us. >> sandra: a lot of news to get to. let's begin. a lot of new developments as president trump is still working towards potentially meeting with north korean leader kim jong un. white house counselor kellyanne conway weighing in this morning. speak of this president the brink again of bringing conversation and coordination between north korea and south korea for the first time in 18 years. i north korean official will be coming to america on the way to new york. >> sandra: president trump tweeting earlier "we have put a great team together for talks with north korea. meetings are currently taking place concerning the summit and more." the vice chairman of north korea heading now to new york. solid response to my letter, thank you." vice chairman who used to be the head of north korea's by agency and landed in beijing today ahead of his trip to the united states.

this follows a phone call between president trump and japanese prime minister yesterday. the two agreed to meet in advance of the expected meeting between president trump and kim jong un. we now learning they will meet june 7th. on saturday, met with the president of south korea. kim reiterated his commitment to participating in a summit with the u.s. in the trump administration reportedly going to hold off on applying major new sanctions against north korea. live from the state department, things continue to change. because at top north korean official on his way to new york right now. this would be the highest level official visit from a north korean official since 2002 to the united states. the vice chairman of the central committee will meet later this here with secretary of state mike pompeo.

international outreach to china, south korea for the olympics into the united states. he has already met with secretary pompeo, cia director and secretary of state, already traveled to their twice as a senior military official, he is also under u.s. sanctions for his suspected involvement in north korea's nuclear program, the deadly attack on south korean shipment in 2012 and several other complications. the u.s. negotiating team is still in a militarized zone between north and south korea. they are continuing preparations for the summit between president trump and kim jong un. the white house and says other administration officials are in singapore and communicating the logistics of this expected summit. experts say they are still on target for june 12 and trying to target june 12 even after the president threatens last week to scrap this.

the u.s. and north korea are working on logistics like were specifically to have this, travel arrangements, but then there's also the substance of negotiating with discussions about how north korea is going to surrender its nuclear program. how much of that is going to surrender, what it looks like and what the united states is going to give in return. try to get the summit back on track for june 12th in semaphore, also when issue of laying the groundwork between president trump so they can rea. >> sandra: a lot we know and a lot we don't at this point. this leaves us with a big question, what are the chances is actually happens and if it happens is it june 12, is that after that date? >> david: you said there were a lot of things we don't know. one thing we do know is this guy who was coming here, kim young chol, these sort of reminds me of a friend who used to have a collection of poisonous spiders. it was wondered how could he deal with poisonous spiders?

he became the curator of the reptile department of the national zoo so he knew what he was doing but i just hope and i think they do when you look at our current secretary of state mike pompeo, you think of john bolton, you think of gina haspel, they know they're dealing with poisonous spiders. they have all the background of how to deal with these people so i trust that they will be as careful as they have to be but this is a guy who was responsible for the death of 46 south koreans involved in that incident that rich was talking about. god knows how many north koreans he's been responsible for murdering. so we are dealing with poisonous spiders and we just have to be very careful here. >> sandra: what does this mean politically if this does happen? what are democrats going to have to say about this? what they give the president a victory of this summit takes place? >> jessica: i think so absolutely. and there has been cautious optimism on both sides here. i think it seem like a rather brash letter coming out from president trump was something that ruffled feathers on both

sides. i saw that from republicans who have been supportive of him. i think that there has always been a discomfort amongst a lot of people with the way in which president trump does diplomacy. >> david: i want the north koreans to be uncomfortable. >> jessica: i'm just saying when you see that and when it shows up out of nowhere and you think there's a summit coming and it's a very trump written letter and not in diplomatic speak, i understand people on both sides that are like. >> harris: hugh and other democrats are scribing the letter quite differently. you call it brash. if you understand the diplomacy of the president to acknowledge there. nancy pelosi called it that. it can't be both. it's interesting. you're not on the hill, scribble to step back and kind of look at things and call them what they are. i don't know she was playing a game of politics there but she looks pretty silly today now. coming out, calling something a

giggle fit for an enemy who did what david just described as the pictures to go with it. >> katie: then there's a whole threatening of nuclear war thing again that took place so i think they deserve a brash letter in response to that. it brought them back to diplomacy. so there is all this talk leading up to the comment, the president agreed six months ago, never said it was a done deal, they put a date on the calendar and then kim jong un started meeting with china behind our backs, started acting up and then it fell apart because of the north korean president rightfully so pulled out after again they threatened us with nuclear war. we look what's "happening now" moving forward, john bolton who has been a little but of for talking about the model over the last couple of weeks has been in contact very recently, talk to him in almost every single day. you have the prime minister. my next point is the prime minister of japan is coming to the white house first

week of june to meet directly with president trump so they are still engaged, they never said the summit was a done deal. they understood from the beginning they could pull out of it. june 12 is pretty soon. i'm not so sure they'll get to it then. but this idea that the white has never had the cards go off the table of not showing up, that was always on the table. if >> david: don't you get the sense that the japanese prime minister is more aligned with president trump on dealing with north korea than a south korean president moon? he didn't know it was going to be canceled, he didn't know until he got back to south korea. he's going to be in shock by the whole thing. it just seems that he is a little too anxious to give everything to north korean who want it. >> sandra: what do you make of the u.s. confirming and making a very publicly we are not imposing new sanctions on north korea in the meantime? >> david: i love the good cop bad cop that president trump has taken because it is working like no other policy has worked going back with republican and

democratic administrations in the past. they have always gotten away with their when it comes to building up their nuclear arsenal, building up their missile technology. they've gotten away with it by glad talking and talking with terrible language in the past that was never given back properly by the president until now. now we have this that may not please the diplomats but it gets the point through to the folks in north korea who has i said before or poison. these are the nastiest characters on earth and this is the way that you get through to them. >> harris: it keeps the north koreans on their heels, what would they normally be doing? they be firing missiles to show that they are in charge. it but this president is saying we are now going to lean in with more policy, which we know really hurts your people. he spoke directly to them at on. he said they are hardworking people. he's kind of encircling

kim jong un and you know he's in the middle. is that the hardliners were telling him to say the stuff he said last week about death to the nuclear war or whatever and then he's got people on the ground kind of seems on china for once. this figure we haven't talked about china which is a key issue here because the president last week said after the last meeting that kim had with the chinese, they went silent, they stopped talking. >> harris: north korea started acting differently. >> david: then we had some kind of deal that was made with the telephone company at the end of last week and is back on again. so what is the relationship between our trade relations with china and their pressure on north korea either to have a deal or to pull back from a deal? it's a real three-dimensional chess game that we are playing here. >> jessica: the conversation is a lot more complicated especially when you find out the trump organization is getting a whole lot of patents that were there in china at the same this is going on for a company

specifically. and there were a lot of people. the trade question is, the deals that president trump is making on the behalf of the united states or america are benefiting his own family. >> sandra: i'll let katie follow up on that one. >> katie: i want to go back to why the white house decided to pull the summit, the boat reporting and what they were saying, there were two specific promises the north koreans broke when it came to why they decided to leave. they had agreed the united states could not be stopping military exercises, they got in arms about that continuing. now they're saying they're not going to. it's not like the white house has canceled it. if they put forward very specific reasons. >> david: they did go silent. there was a period where there was negotiation, and i just went quiet. he was right after the second meeting in china. >> harris: i just want to know what china promised them. maybe we'll never know. if >> sandra: president trump in his lawyer rudy giuliani ramping up discussion about the

russian probe and whether they have a point. where g.o.p. senate candidate marsha blackburn has been touting her support of the agenda. will this be a winning strategy for republicans come november or could it backfire with many voters who may feel differently? we will debate. >> women are focused primarily on a number of things. number one is the economic security issue. and they know that their lives are getting better every single day under the policies of donald trump. managing blood sugar

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>> harris: president trump and his attorney rudy giuliani ramping up the criticism of the special counsel's rossa investigation. the president to be to just a day "why and heavily conflicted democrats investigating the totally crooked campaign of totally quick and hillary clinton? it's a rigged witch hunt. ask them if they enjoyed her after election celebration." rudy giuliani said this on sunday. >> we are more convinced as we see it that this is a investigation, now we have this whole spygate things thrown on top of it, , on top of already

legitimate questions. stay when hear from his attorney. >> david: likes to get his point across. >> harris: talk to me about the point. >> david: one of the narrative is being thrown out now by the media and of course the democrats very often pick up what is spun first in the media is that spygate is a funny thing that was invented by the president. in effect, "the new york times" had a big piece today saying it's a conspiracy theory, because it is a series of a conspiracy theories going all the way back to the birther theory. >> harris: there actually was an fbi informant. it >> david: "the new york times" itself was one of the sources for that story. in another trying to discredit their own story. whether you call it a spy or an informant, the same kind of

procedure was used to collect information from the trump campaign. >> jessica: spying on the trump campaign and investigating russian interference are different. if marco rubio came out this weekend and said that spygate was a conspiracy theory. admitted it was a p.r. stunts. >> david: if, in fact, another democratic party was able to not only investigate russia but also get the information. >> jessica: you don't know what happened. >> david: you don't think anybody in the hillary clinton campaign was interested in what was going on inside the trump campaign? >> jessica: was hillary clinton in charge of the fbi? space resources that were working with the fbi and people. using gps. >> harris: we know at least as much about the hillary clinton campaign. they were so furious that they were willing to pony up along with and giving dirt on the

president. >> katie: a russian spy that was giving dirt to russian sources. millions of dollars, then hire a british foreign spy to work with russians on the trump campaign. politically, let's take a step back because we've been talking about russia for a very long time. it is very clear the trump administration is trying to discredit robert mueller. they have from the beginning. to the president has done it himself by saying it's a witch hunt, going after mueller by name. that seems to be working according to the polling. americans say this is a politically tinged investigation and last week, we saw that americans are ready to move on from this including democrats because ahead of -- we know this is an ongoing investigation and going to wait for the results but the people that we are talking to on the ground are interested in the economy. >> sandra: you really can gauge whether it's rudy giuliani or listening to the president himself, whether he's going to

ultimately sit down with mueller. it seems like we hear two conflicting stories on that. >> david: there's also another thing that i don't think we should get away from too quickly which is what role the fbi had in all of this. it wasn't the first time that the fbi had spotted a political campaign. it was done in 1964 on behalf of lbj, lyndon baines johnson by jay j. edgar hoover. it was all laid out in a brilliant piece by "the wall street journal" last week. there are occasions in the history of the fbi where they went overboard, went over the line and a political operation. if we should always be aware that the fbi has many institutions in the united states to be kept in check, that's why the founders were so intent on oversight by congress, and that's why the doj and the fbi not being fully forthcoming with all the information that congress wants to get is so dangerous. we have to have oversight. >> harris: i do want to make

this point because no one was ever accused of breaking the law. that conversation has come up now because of the political atmosphere with which we live. with everything that seems through that lens. if that informant were there for an original purpose, russian investigation, but had mission and came there for political purposes, that's not allowed. that's illegal. >> jessica: if that happened and we don't know what we do know that these are hyper politicized and hyperpartisan times. he wanted to have a original declassification briefing with only republicans. to be wanted to have with the parties who asked for the information. they requested the information. >> jessica: but the people on both sides of the aisle who formed these committees, part of the gang of eight have a right to be there. he wants to be with his buddy devon nunez and be there with partisans and people who have buttressed the series of spygate

claims in order to continue correlating this lie. it ended because democrats and the flood kicked it off with john kelly. both partisans directly worked for the president there. >> sandra: we have republicans and democrats, parties that are releasing different memos based on what they feel like they have found. everyone in washington, d.c., is a partisan. >> sandra: do you want to say the investigation to come to an end? >> jessica: i want to bob mueller to have as much time as he needs to do this. i have met very few people. what if it's five years? what about the benghazi investigations and wrap it up on the other side. they were saying as long as this takes, we needed this. people agreed on both sides of the aisle that there had to be a special counsel because of the way that jim comey was fired and because of the comments of the president making. for them or him telling him i got rid of jim comey, i didn't

like the russia thing was going. there were reasons to be looking, obstruction of justice, financial crimes. >> sandra: you just heard katie say a majority of the american people say it's time to move on. we are over a year into this and nothing has come up. i understand that you're concerned about robert mueller in this but what about the president who says he's tried to be with north korea and trying to move on with the agenda? >> jessica: he can walk and chew gum. >> harris: democrats criticizes president for not being able to focus on north korea because he is able to do all these other things but when it comes to the russian investigation, you want him to walk and chew gum. >> jessica: or tune it out for a little bit, spend your memorial day just thinking about those that lost their lives. >> harris: you want him to act now and dreamers from within his own party. why the urgency now and should the president is in we will debate. i have type 2 diabetes.

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>> sandra: a fox news alert, could be do-or-die time on daca. the senate leader of the campaign arm delivered a urgent message to president trump earlier this month saying the white house and the congress need to act now on immigration reform. in the colorado republican telling politico the sweet spot for getting an immigration deal remains now. the closer we get to the election and certainly postelection, the more difficult it will be if we wait longer, the more difficult it becomes. they will blame it on both parties at that point." he is part of the smoke group of bipartisan centers that have been holding back talks in hopes of reviving a deal to protect dreamers. and this comes as house republicans from both the right and the center drive an effort to force votes on immigration proposals. so do-or-die time, centers same to the president. >> david: i don't think it's going to pass.

if it makes the president look good in any way, shape, or form. the november election is all about making and the president look as diabolical and evil as possible. that's what they're playing on, that the game plan and if there's any deal that could be viewed in any way that is positive towards the president, i don't think it's going to get done. you can talk about plans on the left or plans on the right, i don't think they're ever going to come together to vote on something. >> sandra: do you think the president is getting this message? >> katie: i think they need to stop the bleeding with the border. in and they are already here as far as they were concerned, the judge that orders a daca protections to stay, the president cannot now take off according to this judge, they are protected. of the issue now is for congress to get something done on changing asylum laws, to change the standard for a typical american families and unaccompanied minors to the same standard for mexicans and canadians. we have a problem that has to be fixed immediately with a focus on daca which is not an

immediate emergency. if you talk to border patrol agents down were working the rio grande valley are working in arizona or talking about the thousands of children and increase at a huge percentage are coming over either alone or with their parents, there is a serious crisis and in those people are put into the united states and they are never seen or heard from again because i don't show up to their court date. so the real bleeding is at the border. if congress wants to get something done, they should start there. >> harris: we are going to talk more about that coming up because we've got those pictures. there are members of congress who were trying to do their part which is interesting because you got representative diane black who started this press fund we could put in money to pay for the wall, making the point of what katie is saying do what you can do now, people have agreed upon this, they put this president in office, and if you want to try to press other countries like mexico to pay for it, he can. but diane black told me that it looks like there's enough interest out there among americans to put their own fund funds. she said americans send money to the government all the time.

this allocates it for that thing. >> david: there's a lot that has to be done. i am the stepfather of a 7-year-old boy from central america who came here with his mom and an overnight bag when he was seven years old. he later became a u.s. marine, became a u.s. citizen while serving in iraq with the marine corps when we were at war. and i said to him with all the trouble you have with the ins, are you really sure you want to join the marine corps? he said i want to earn my citizenship. and i'm sure there are a lot of daca people out there who want to earn their citizenship. so eventually when we get beyond this november election, when republicans and democrats can sit down together and figure out how to make if people are really willing to earn their citizenship, how they can do it. they should be something done. >> sandra: want to thank him for his service, and it's a huge thing at a great store in is a lot more stories out there like that. >> jessica: there are which is so great about this cohort of

these kids who showed up. if they know their home is in america, they worked hard, they've gone to school, they have jobs and they want to contribute to the community. if this isn't about the larger immigration population, as of the kids to think of themselves as americans. >> david: i don't think i'll do. >> jessica: even of the biggest immigration hardliners like jeff sessions of the world do not say that the daca recipients and these kids now young adults are ill intentioned or don't want to do anything but become americans and contribute to society. i'm not saying that they're all like your son. >> david: not everybody wants to but those who do. >> harris: while you are a great proponent as a father, not everybody has people, you have to nurture that. that's what the president was talking about. let's move on just real quickly.

it's all encompassing here with this topic. president trump is lashing out after an old photograph of immigrant children in a steel cage which was taken while barack obama was still in the white house as president was linked to the current administration. the president launched a scathing attack on journalists and a former top speechwriter for president obama which are at a picture on twitter in order to blast the trump administration's crackdown on immigrants. tweeting "democrats mistakenly tweak 2014 pictures from obama's term showing children from the border in steel cages. they thought it was recent pictures in order to make us look bad but backfired. democrats must agree to wall and new border protection for good of country. bipartisan bill!" this morning, councils of the president kellyanne conway unable to hide her frustration on the matter. watch created >> why did a cnn reporter retreat that false tweet about the migrant children being in cages?

your cnn colleague retweeted to my grandchildren i suppose laying in a cage to make the point again since president and it happened under president obama's watch and then deleted the tweet because it didn't fit the narrative. when we should note some of the journalists who posted the erroneous picture deleted the tweets and offered correction. though deletion on twitter, he lives somewhere. so my question for you is rather than come at this with ideas, we are now in this zone of pointing fingers and putting up fake pictures. everybody has to come to the table. >> jessica: i think they absolutely do. you're looking at that this is a democrat and republican problem. >> harris: this is an american problem. >> jessica: exactly an independent as well. a totally american problem. i don't think that picture was posted in the first place with ill intentioned. i think anyone who posted it should make a correction and say that it was a mistake, it was a

2014 picture. but we've been talking about is off-camera. >> sandra: you know how google works right? >> jessica: i google everything all the time. if you posted it, correct it right now. >> sandra: but your intentions are made clear if you retweet it and don't repost it with a correction because it means your attention was at the president said. >> jessica: because of the things that president trump has said about immigrant populations and because of some of these policies that he has implemented and the way that jeff sessions is, there is an underlying anger towards him and the way that immigrant are treated. >> katie: the policies that we see in this photo of children laying on the ground inside of these cells in places like that, i was one of the first reporters to get these photos from inside the detention center and you talk to the border patrol agents and this wasn't an issue of them just throwing people in cages. as of the situation where they

were completely overrun. saying we don't have enough food, we don't have enough think it's, you don't have all the resources and thousands of children without parents in 2014, this is an minor crisis. they had no choice but to figure out what to do in the policies haven't changed and that as a result of congress and they have the ability to do that today. >> harris: why pin it on his president when those pictures were taken under barack obama as president? he has the bully pulpit. if we know because he put daca in place. he has the bully pulpit because democrats scream against the other side that they are heartless and that they're the only ones who hold the policy of heart on this issue. why were those pictures even available in 2014? >> david: the irony is you get comments from antonio, former mayor of a lady who said this is not who we are as a nation posting that 2014 picture presuming that it was for trump. the irony of using an obama --

which is this is not how we are as a nation for something that actually happened during the obama administration is just incredible. and also, there are certain so-called journalists like sean kane who last week had to pull a story, a fake story about police brutality that turned out to be false. this week having to do the same thing with this picture because he twitted it around the university as well. >> harris: has brought damage to the conversation. >> katie: the broader context of why it is the way it is and why this is so bad and why the conditions are so bad and the fact is that open borders are inhumane borders. as a reason why using photos of underage children in cages is because we don't have policies that stop them from coming here. we have policies that enable traffickers of children to bring them here into abuse them along the way and nobody is changing it. >> jessica: the policies have changed somewhat. i'm not denying that picture came from but we know jeff sessions has announced there

will be more prosecution. >> katie: that is enforcing the law and the book. >> harris: reunite the parents with their kids. >> jessica: there have been over 700 children that have been taken from their parents since october. >> katie: because i can't be put into an adult detention center. >> harris: you wouldn't want that with the stories that we know of. >> katie: they reunify them with someone in the country, a sponsor who is vetted and sometimes, a lot of the times of sponsors illegal immigrants and the reason they're saying these children are lost is because when they make the phone call as a follow-up to make sure the kids okay, illegal immigrants in the country aren't answering the phone because i don't want to talk. >> david: a great point that is if you have a lot and it is not enforced is particularly on immigration, everybody sampled as a result.

you need the strength of the la law. >> harris: is not fair to say that one side is more heartless than the other. this is the problem that we all wear together. why can't congress get it together? >> katie: they really should. >> harris: let's move on. did you see the violence in chicago? versus memorial day weekend than last year. president trump weighing in ahead of the shootings in chicago police cannot do their job properly because of too much bureaucracy. but the mayor's office refuting that. what is going to take to keep the city safe. we will talk about it. stay close. >> what i can tell you is that some of the officers are highly visible over presidents and some of them you don't recognize as police officers.

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>> katie: a very violent memorial day weekend in chicago. at least 18 people were killed and 30 others in a shooting across the country. seven were killed last year and dozens wounded. police actually put 1300 extra officers on patrol to try to keep the streets safer over the holiday weekend even before the shootings started, president trump tweeting "chicago police have every right to legally protest against the mayor and administration that just won't let them do their job. in the killings are a record pace and tough police work which chicago will not allow will bring things back to order fast. the killings must stop." the communications director for rahm emanuel tweeting back "as flies from the middle east and put some allies at rest, he still has time to comment on

police reform. chicago is a trump free zone, not a fact free zone and we had a 20 21% drop in gun violence n 2017 and a 21% drop in 2018. have a nice weekend." the fact is that dozens be his people were wounded in chicago over the weekend which in the summertime in that city is a normal occurrence. space we have to remember just to put it in context, new york has about three times as many people, had one fourth the number of deaths over the weekend. in new york is a perfect example of how you solve the problem. it's not rocket science. mayor giuliani did it in the early 90s and it has carried through until today. in 1992, new york city had 2,200 murders. this year, it's going to have less than 400. no city has ever seen as dramatic a decline in the murder rate, the violent crime rate is new york city has a very simple, is called the broken windows theory.

you stop the small crimes, you absolutely have a zero tolerance for any kind of crime, you don't have any tolerance for smaller crimes like jumping the turnstiles if you're in the subway. breaking a window. once you stop a small crimes you find out at the big crimes come down is about. that's exactly what we put into place here and it has continued until today. >> jessica: there has been a shift on that. bill bratton did not believe in that the way that he believes in that. >> david: that the only thing different. >> jessica: that's a big deal and that's where the racial profiling aspect comes into pla play. >> harris: can i ask a question to sandra because he lived in this area? what is it that makes it tolerable for the people who live there? i use that word because it's gotten worse and worse and worse. >> sandra: i think what you guys are talking about his reaction and there's been a lot of changes in density in the cities in this country with gentrification of what were formerly very urban areas and that has changed a lot, but a

lot of people living in close quarters it didn't otherwise. you may be familiar with the greens area of chicago. there's been a lot of changes over a course of time that has led to this point. unfortunately, the conversation seems to be about gun control and gun violence when the mayor of that city to put out such an anti-president, anti-trump message like that when this city is in the middle of a crisis, this is a moment where everybody needs to come together and figure out a solution. that to me just divides people even more. >> harris: we had a black president for the first time in this country that was from chicago and the situation did not get better. >> jessica: but it did, it got 21% better. >> sandra: first of all, there's a lot of ways to look at the numbers that they put out on a put out numbers that make them look favorable. and make it look like it's gotten better.

>> jessica: there has undeniably been a national drop in violent crime and murder rates. if that is across all major cities. >> sandra: we are talking about the city of chicago. >> jessica: that's true in the city of chicago as well. >> harris: the numbers over the holiday weekend where we'll and abysmal. and you've got a city's mayor he used to work for the former president of the united states who is from chicago and maybe he used at a lot of things since he left office, there's some organization that barack obama is involved in. i can advocate for sanctuary cities for illegals coming into the country but not keep the actual citizens safe in chicago? this is a question and you can be angry at it me but anybody can ask it. >> katie: starbucks shutting down 8,000 of its u.s.-based locations and dates to conduct racial bias training. what kind of message was sent to other companies and whether they'll follow suit. that's next.

>> sandra: starbucks will be closing more than 8,000 of its usa locations this afternoon so that more than 175,000 employs can take part in a racial bias education program. it follows protest over the arrest last month of two black

men who asked to use the restroom without purchasing anything at a starbucks in philadelphia. the company says the program as part of a long-term effort to help prevent discrimination and promote inclusion. what do you think of this move by starbucks? >> david: is a very risky move because i think the line between loitering and just window shopping in a starbucks is very thin. if it encourages loitering, when i was a teenager, we used to hang out where we could and we generally shouldn't be hanging out where we were. at the local drugstore et cetera because trouble finds its way into situations like that. that's why they used to have anti-loitering laws, aclu stepped in and said those are unconstitutional. maybe they were right, but individual company has to be very careful not to encourage loitering which some of these policies are doing. >> sandra: what if you're running a small coffee shop and you've got to keep the lights on, you've got to pay the rent

paid you need paying customers in your doors. >> katie: i had the exact same thoughts. starbucks can afford to shut down all of their stores for an afternoon and pay for this training which they think all these employees need but if you're a small coffee shop, you can't afford to have people coming out using your services for free because somebody is paying for it and that's you. if you look at the example of seattle where the government there has allowed people to loiter, to in front of businesses, to create this horrible environment, all those businesses are leaving in the big corporations can afford to leave for the small mom-and-pop businesses just have to go out. >> sandra: especially with two small kids, how many times you run in and i'll just buy a little something. he buy something because you're going to use their. >> harris: i have tons of those kind of bars that i bought sitting in my car and we snack on those all the time because i do think of that small business and these are franchises so they are many small businesses. but starbucks has been in this conversation.

i don't know if you guys kept your cups, but remember when they were hash tagging race together and preaching to the rest of the country about some of the things that were happening in a race relations in america. this is part of their way of dealing with things. the problem is, that was about a conversation that was happening in a hashtag moment. this is about starbucks. not every starbucks is going to have these issues. how do they has a company take the entire land of corporations of starbucks without actually hurting their brand? >> jessica: i don't know about that but i think they are sending out a value-based message that it is important to them as an organization to make sure every employee has this type of training. and we are not talking about homeless people who are loitering. we are talking about two black men who were waiting to have a meeting. in this particular instance, you certainly don't forcibly remove someone, you certainly don't get to the point that philadelphia did. this also is linked to a larger problem that we have in the city is about homelessness about how hard that is.

you brought up people loitering and needing to go to the bathroom. and i by the kind bars and water wherever i go if i need to use the restroom. >> sandra: more "outnumbered" and just a minute. we'll be right back. how long do you think we'll keep -- oooooohhh! you stopped! you're gonna leave me back here at year 9? how did this happen? it turned out, a lot of people fell short, of even the average length of retirement. we have to think about not when we expect to live to, but when we could live to. let's plan for income that lasts all our years in retirement. prudential. bring your challenges. ...to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. i'll take that. [cheers] 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. new ensure max protein. in two great flavors.

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boundaries are a good thing. right? >> they are. we were continuing the starbucks conversation. thank you for having me. >> i don't have to do anything. >> sandra: it's great to

have you and congratulations on your daughter. she is married. we saw the pictures. stunning bride. thanks to jessica and katie. that's it for us. "outnumbered" will see you tomorrow at 12:00 noon. here is harris. >> harris: fox news alert. the president's potential summit with north korea may be back on track. amid a flurry of diplomatic activity just now. let's go "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. president trump confirmed a top north korean official is on the way to the united states for talks with kim jong un next month. this is video of the former spy chief spotted at a chinese airport. look at the big wall. he is expected to land in new york city tomorrow afternoon. before meeting with secretary of state mike pompeo later in the week. he would be the highest ranking north korean to visit the u.s. in two decades. all this as the japanese media now says kim's de facto chief of staff arrived in singapore last night to meet with the u.s. advance team. counselor to the president kellyanne conway credit