howie: on our buzz meter it's been the biggest battle of his presidency. there were strong condemnations from liberals and republicans were divided. >> president trump is lying and people around him are lying. >> liberals seized on the separated children and turned the entire image into a political weapon, attempting to emotionally manipulate the public perception of enforcement. >> it's child abuse to separate

children from their parents. >> elites like to see who can reach greater heights of rhetorical excess. >> this is cruelty as politics. this is an obscenity. this is the president of the united states advocating a system where young children are torn from their mothers. howie: we'll look at every angle is there a media double standard on immigration? is the "time" magazine cover blatantly misleading. the wardrobe choice that launched a national debate. my sit-down with anthony scaramucci and why he challenged his former boss. >> tell the truth to the president. tell the truth to the american

people. this is very bad policy and let's knock it off. howie: hollywood hot shots associated with 21st century fox don't want to be associated with fox. i'm howard kurtz and this is "mediabuzz." the media uproar over families being separated at the border, president trump denied it's an administration policy. >> if you are smuggling a child, we'll prosecute you and that child may be separated from you as required by law. howie: the white house offered

sometimes contradictory messages that the media branded false. >> it's congress' job to change the law. president trump: the democrats forced that law upon our nation. i hate it. >> it's not in your definition cruel. >> it's not a policy. our policy at dhs is to enforce the law. >> how is this not child abuse. >> be more specific, please. howie: even after the president reversed himself with an executive order, many in the media remain critical. >> a rare retreat on a president who prides himself on never apologizing. mollie hemingway, gillian turner and richard fowler. the mainstream media are

constantly accusing the president of lying. congress had to do it, it was the democrats' fault. then he did reverse it. was the criticism of his veracity on target? mollie: you saw this with obama and president trump. they claimed congress needed to do something. then when congress doesn't act, they do executive orders. another error was trump said it was democrats who brought us to this point. it's a bipartisan failure to do what needs to be done to have a sensible immigration policy. that doesn't change the fact that what's actually happening here, there has been a failure of media coverage. at the start of this they were saying children were being separated from parents willy-nilly. this is not about people'

immigrating to the country, this is for crossing the border illegally. when they are caught they are separated. just a failure to accurately report this. one of the things you get from what you showed in the intro, everybody treats it as if'. the majority of americans believe crossing the border illegally should be treated as a criminal offense. howie: the coverage seems to be mixed messages. everybody from the president on down, is it a policy, a law, it's all on video. gillian: it was a case of

chaotic' coverage. i don't think the public holds the media at fault o on diverge' coverage. on the travel ban we thought the administration learned at the very minimum before you roll out a policy or start discussing the policy, you have top have your internal house of cards in order. they disagreed on whether it was a presidential policy or morally acceptable. at the same time the president was saying he hated the policy. jeff sessions was using justifications based in scripture. howie: the media loved this narrative because the president often says things that aren't true. this is one of the rare times richard when the president had to change his mind at least in large measure because of the

relentless media coverage. richard: the voters, the american people were so disgusted by what they saw taking place across this country and at the border. the media missed the story the reason why these women and children were leaving their countries. guatemala, nick recal talk in . and honduras are dangerous countries. howie: let's so this shot of the 2-year-old honduran girl. "time" had this story online, then had to correct it online saying this girl was not separated from her mother. even though her picture became so widely used.

and published that cover. when' called on it the editor said she was the symbol of the uproar. actually it's wrong. gillian: it captures not so much the stakes of the moment. but the sentiment and emotion of the moment. they took creative license. i don't know they had the right to take. they represent themselves as a hard news publication. their job is not to sort of convey the sentiment of the moment. their job is to be factually accurate. in this case there was a clear short coming. howie: the media painted this as a heartless policy. and it is an emotional issue. what fuels some of the attacks are you had many on the right, the conservative editorial pages

of the "new york post" and "wall street journal" and scathing editorials against the policy. laura bush speaking out. hugh hewitt, saying this is trump's katrina. do you think that provided cover or fuel? >> it's what we have been experiencing for the last several decade. you have an american electorate that wants to treat borders as a real thing that needs to be enforced. you have an elite force that wants to keep american wages low. and what gets left out are the american people who actually want strong border enforcement. on that "time" magazine cover. it was a perfect encapsulation of the media narrative and it was completely built on a lie. and the what it is lying is influential.

the way we learned this story, this mother had previously come to this country and been deported. she abandoned other children and her husband to took the child without permission. and only after being caught requested asylum. because we are not telling the truth about the situation, i totally agree with what richard is saying. we are not telling the truth about the situation in central america. and we are not talking about how the previous policy incentivized child trafficking. howie: this story had been around for months. the "new york times" reported hundreds of kids had been separated from their families. then the pictures and audio of crying kids at the fat silts that was leaked.

would you agree it was the pictures and sound that made this a wall to wall story? richard: part of it. you saw some heartlessness from the trump administration. you heard jeff sessions to use scripture and the bible to back up heartless policy. howie: heartless is your interpretation. richard: i think a majority of americans agree with me. the pictures and how the administration acted, that created a wall-to-wall story. they were tone death where the country was. yes we need border security. you cannot tell me a 3-year-old child is a criminal. howie: the focus shifted to reuniting the 1,800 families.

200 of these kids were shipped to new york city without the mayor's knowledge. will this policy be upheld because there is a court decree involved. so it could be overturned by the courts. there are a lot of legitimate questions to be answered. the media almost made a decision to keep this furor going. gillian: i think the media coverage phase two has been fairly sceptical. i combed some of the headlines earlier. the phrases were it's not going to be easy, it may take a long time, the process is chaotic. the media is coalescing around the idea this is not a quick fix. even though the president delivered what he says is a quick fix. the media is saying we don't think this will entirely solve the problem.

it goes back to the rollout of the issue. the administration was note tightly synced on their message. howie: geraldo said he dropped the ball. mollie: people get upset they are saying the same thing and when you say something else they don't like the devicity. fox was on this story when very few people were carrying it when 70,000 unaccompanied minors came over in 2014, and they have covered immigration with a greater degree of interest. but it's true that we talk about it as if it's heartless to enforce the border.

but we don't talk about the heartlessness of not enforcing the bored. we made it where if you bring a child's a get out of jail free card. that incentivizes child trafficking. howie: when we come back. melania trump goes to the border to support the reuniting of families. anthony scaramucci on why he broke with the president on this hot-button issue. she's saying a whole lotta people want to buy this house. but you got this! rocket mortgage by quicken loans makes the complex simple. understand the details and get approved in as few as eight minutes. by america's largest mortgage lender.

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howie: melania trump was just starting to get journalistic praise for her trip to the

border when the media went haywire over her jacket. >> it's a sort of jacket you would wear as a teenager. >> she is wearing a $39 jacket. the least expensive garment she has ever been seen wearing. howie: amidst the endless media coverage. despite her spokeswoman saying the media shouldn't obsess on the jacket. it seems to me she was sending a message. >> i think she was. but i didn't get it. to me the jacket was a total head a scratcher. it was a bit of my office colleague would call an unforced error. she is the only member of the trump inner circle to travel to

this area in texas to visit these shelters. i wish she would have let that stand on its own. howie: i think the marie antoinette comparison is unfair. apparently nobody on her staff warned her this might distract from her message? mollie hemingway the only thing we do snow is she cares about the children because she went to visit the children. this is a month she has had, a week she has had where her family has been viciously attacked. she had a hollywood celebrity call for the kidnap and rape of her child. she had media outlets questioning her schedule shortly after she had surgery. you saw some of this negative

treatment during the obama administration usually coming from the fringes. in this case it's been the mainstream top level season lights. she might be sending a message to those people. howie: one of the reasons i feel comfortable saying she is sending some kind of message. when she came back and walked into the white house she was still wearing the jacket and it was 81 degrees. maybe melania trump is rebelling over the white house handling of this issue. richard: that analysis is enlightening. i tend to agree with that more than the president's tweet. i think the president wanted to

make a news story. if you look at what melania said on the border, those words spoke loudly. she said i'm trying to do everything in my power to make sure we reunite these family as fast as possible. gillian is right. she is the only member of this family that went down to the border. she is one of the highest ranking people in this administration. she immigrated to this country herself. the fact that we are making a story about this jacket speaks more about us and less about her. the jacket did match the shoes. howie: we'll see you in bathe. ahead. peter fonda's toxic tweet about the trump family. how low have we sunk.

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falls; seizures; impaired judgment; heat sensitivity; and trouble swallowing may occur. you're more than just your bipolar i. ask about vraylar. howie: the vitriol being unleashed against sarah huckabee sanders is stung and sad. she and her family were kicked out of a restaurant called the red hen for moral reasons and so she left. she tweeted that her actions say more about her than me. the reaction by some trump-bashing pundits, yeah, right, she deserved it. >> you make choices in life. and there is a cost to being an accomplice to this cruel, deceitful administration. howie: msnbc contributor in the

"washington post," it's natural and appropriate for decent human beings to shame and shun the practitioners of such a policy. if a barack obama spokesman had been booted from a restaurant. what's next. is it okay to picket people's houses like what happened friday at kirstjen nielsen's townhouse in virginia. should fedex not deliver packages? rachel maddow apologized at the end of her show when she had difficultyw about infants and toddlers being moved to new shelters. >> at least three -- put up the

graphic of this. thank you. do we have it? no. three tender age shelters in texas. lawyers and medical providers -- i'm going have to hand this off. sorry. howie: whether or not you like rachel ma dough, i don't think she has anything to apologize for. we all struggle as broadcasters and sometimes we choke up. a banner flashed on the screen. man for the rrp pleads guilty to five charges of manslaughter. he hasn't pled guilty to anything. abc apologized saying there is no excuse for the mistake and i

agree. anthony scaramucci on the immigration uproar and the president calling media outlets the country's biggest enemy. ♪ ♪ ♪ raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪

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want to feel. howie: he disagrees. you are criticizing his policy. anthony: it's not a difficult decision for me. i'm not taking on the president. i'm saying to the president, i wish other advisors would say this. and don't sit in the circle and just yes everybody. look at the optics of the situation, let's look at the spirit of the situation. let's stop arguing about it being legal. because we have had many laws that have not been right. we were segregating children 50 short years ago. we had jim crow laws. this law is inhumane. howie: you say the president is poorly advised. but isn't that a copout? he's making the decisions. and you are trying to tear him toward ways a more humane

approach and one that won't be as damage. at the end of the day the president has to own his decision. but i'm basically saying this is a moment when you have a food fight going on among your advisors, a food fight going on among the parties. but you are a ceo, you are a business person. you have got great common sense. i know him personally, he's a great guy. howie: this is emotional and there has been criticism from both parties. i'm told the white house is not pleased with your position. have you had a chance to explain your thoughts to the president personally? anthony: i explained it. i'm explaining it here. and i have no problem with them being not pleased with me. but they should not be pleased with themselves. at the end of the day, you have got so many great things going on, the president is doing a great job. why do you need this in the news

when we could be talking about the inspector general's report that comes out great for the president. the denuclearization of north korea. why make this the lead news story. i don't agree with it. i don't care if they are pleased with me or not. i have supported the guy for three years. i put hard money into his campaign. when they threw me out of the white house i stayed loyal to the president. so i'm here saying wake up. if you don't wake up on his issue why would you have an issue like this blind side so many of the good things going on in our administration. howie: when the president said he can't do anything unilaterally. the conflicting messages coming out of the white house -- anthony: read the tweet again. am i wrong about that?

you can't have five or six different arguments going on at the same time. it's a black and white issue. there is a lot of gray in our society. this is a black and white issue for moms and dad. you want to look back on this thing in 10 years and say what were we doing? do you think the americans look back on the japanese interment camps and say it was a great idea? tell the truth to the president, tell the truth to the american people. this is very bad policy. and let's knock it off. it's just that simple. howie: the president's detractors are obviously piling on. but they are saying he launched a trade war, he picked a fight with canada. are there elements of truth to his or is this the media piling on and not giving the president

the benefit of the doubt. >> there is a bell couldity of rhetoric related to the fact the trading system has been uneven for 7 years. and the president is trying to find a way to create a trade parody system and it hasn't been that way. the bellicosity of rhetoric is used as a twice. on the north korea situation, he has done a great job. you have to give him credit where credit is due. howie: the president tweeted the main real media is our country's biggest enemy. would you advise him not to use that kind of language. anthony: he hasser right to push back against unfair language.

he's a natural counter puncher. but we have to deescalate the war with the press. you are sitting in a seat now where you are serving the american people. you are a temporary office holder and temporary hess dent in the white house. the system was designed so the free press could be in there to rigorously review what you are doing. howie: you want de-escalation? anthony: i do. but i want it on both side. why don't we knock off the nonsense on both side, take it down a notch. i think the president should get out of the corner he's in, go on your show. i was delighted to see him on george stephanopoulos. he's a television star. there is no need for him to be sticking to one network for a

few anchors. let's go the full spectrum of people. there are a lot of moderates and independent who love what the president is doing in the country. and he need those people if he wins an electoral landslide. if he gets an electoral landslide in 2020. he'll have a larger mandate the next four years. he's totally capable of doing it. howie: i interviewed donald trump during the campaign. he has a standing invitation to come on this program. coming up, a look at our angry media culture from peter fonda's reprehensible comments about the first family to actors and producers taking aim at fnc. ll .

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these peter fonda tweets are so vulgar could it permanently mar his reputation? >> i think it could. and it's ammunition for people on the right, roseanne barr's show was canceled but this guys movie just came out despite the fact he tweets these things. howie: sony pictures called the remarks abhorrent and dangerous and they are still putting the movie out. >> you can imagine could this affect box office results? it could. half the country knows looking at the political landscape and you are isolating them with

these tweets. howie: 21st century fox is planning to sell ets assets to disney. the creator of modern family says he's disgusted to work for a company that's associated with fox news. if every fox star and show runner said this show was evil and protested to the murdoch family, it would make a huge difference in this national debate. >> here, as you mention with that merger, it does give potentially some of the entertainment folks that would be separated from fox news a little bit of potentially

freedom to criticize the news arm they will be separated from. but any time the hollywood he let come out and take issue against trump policies, it further creates the divide between the hollywood elitism versus the every day people who have been the hallmark of the trump presidency. >> they are not quitting and they have every right to speak out. they are blaming the company. it's almost always opinion people. >> i will say that brings up a point which is sometimes it can be hard to distinguish if you are an average everyday viewer. to say you don't condone something, i don't know what the impact of that will be. howie: he's so emotional in his

criticism of the trump administration. he called jeff sessions an fing kidnapper. so i wonder better they are flying their own crowd. as you were saying, a lot of these people watch the movies would not agree. >> it can be polarizing. but going back to the point we were saying about peter fonda. no matter what criticism, you say it in a way that's not going to be completely over the line. you can get to that point pretty easily when you are tweeting out things off the cuff. howie: melania trump and pedophiles and hitler comparisons. i think people are turned off by this over the top rhetoric.

i think peter fonda's stuff was unhinged. i didn't come here to beat up on him. by apologized. >> it doesn't matter how many times you delete that tweet. howie: it's there forever. that's the nature of the internet. isn't there enough overheated rhetoric about the immigration. try new alka-seltzer pm gummies. the only fast, powerful heartburn relief plus melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly. ♪ oh, what a relief it is!

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howie: the emotional criticism of the administration's approach to separating families at the border. several couldn't resist make comparisons to nazis. >> children ripped from their

parents. what country would do this? what good country would allow it. this is donald trump's doing. >> i speak with some authority. my grandparents were murder at auschwitz. and my dad survived. but two of this broirts and sisters were killed at auschwitz. they were separated. so when you make the comparison to auschwitz, that's such a powerful image and you understand the criticism you are getting for that. as bad as this policy is. howie: he apologized to anybody who was offended. what about those who feel compelled to make these nazi analogies. mollie: mr. is a moral cost separating children from adults. but this is a time for the media

to show more light than heat. the children who were separated were not jailed, but put in facilities run by health and human services agency. to compare hhs to auschwitz is so deeply problematic and insensitive to the situation at hand. and it causes distrust with the media when they are highlighting inflammatory rhetoric. it makes it hard to take them seriously about the situation. >> interesting the "new york times" has a good piece on the politics of rage. he calls detractors idiots and morons. samantha bee using the c word. and any sense of civility just vanishes. it's a great argument against

donald trump that his rhetoric is inflammatory. >> that's what this piece suggests. they are overreacting to the president. he insults people and that's part of what he does. but if you go even further, aren't you undermining your own credibility? mollie: we are remembering charles krauthammer this week with, and one of the great insights he had is liberals think conservatives are evil and conservatives think liberals are stupid. there are moral costs to not enforcing the bored and moral costs to separating children. this is a complicated topic. it would be nice if we had a media environment on how to come to a healthy solution and have a rule of law to enforce that.

howie: any discussion of this, and i get hammered from both sides it gets hijacked by what aboutism. his press secretary this week, they come back and say he called chuck todd an s.o.b. what about this one and this one and the whole culture seems to go into the gutter. mollie: most of americans aren't like this. the way to achieve better outcomes is to be better yourself and reaching out to people with different policy views. howie: are commentators doing it because you know it will get picked up on the website? mollie: i think there is something inherent in social media that incentivizes people to act crazy. there is not a lot of pushback in news rooms when you are

saying something outrageous to the country. howie: my thoughts on charles krauthammer's impact on journalism. his memorial service currently under way in a synagogue in chevy chase, maryland.

howie: a towering example for us in the news business. and not just for the obvious fact he overcame his physical disabilities. he rarely spoke by the and most of people didn't know he was in a wheelchair. he was a powerful journalistic force for "the washington post," and "time" magazine. i would read a krauthammer post and say i wish i had written

that. whether he was coining the term the reagan doctrine or bush derangement syndrome, it was his intellectualifier power that helped shape modern conservatism. it's no surprise krauthammer's liberal antagonists are praising him. he never fell into that nasty, shouting, corrosive finger in the eye style debate that is so popular among many of today's pundits. he spoke with a soft voice. but that voice was always heard. >> you are betraying your whole life if you don't say what you think and if you don't say it honestly and bluntly. howie: there was a moment of silence at the washington nationals park. to honor charles krauthammer's accuracy, i will try harder to

report and analyze the news with rigor and passion but without the name calling he always rose above. [♪] eric: a new deadline for the justice department from house intelligence committee chairman devin nunes. the congressman still not satisfied after the do jiks hands over hundreds of new documents on the hillary clinton and russia investigations. welcome to "america's news headquarters." i'm eric shawn, they will, name arthel neville. nunes sent a letter to the doj giving them until 5:00 p.m. tomorrow to answer his questions. the questns