supporting them. mark: it has been a great honor. keep up the great work. thank you very much ladies and gentlemen, don't forget to join us next time on "life, liberty and levin". define who they are. this is... - phil: you have '57 chevy-- - levin: oh, my god! this is my dream! i'm harvey levin. this is the story about a small-town kid who would become one of the biggest names in television. phil: you should be sorry. you cannot be that shallow to make that idiotic comment. levin: dr. phil grew up poor, with a father who terrorized the family. he would get drunk and tear the venting hood out of the kitchen and then throw it through the windows. levin: phil became a psychologist and put the very institution of marriage at risk. i was the worst marital therapist in the history - of marital therapy. - ( laughing ) levin: he would pivot professionally

and open a successful jury consulting business, and then came the life-changing client, one oprah winfrey, who was being sued by the cattle industry. i said, these ol' boys are gettin' ready to hand you your ass on a platter. you need to wake up, girl, and come present here, because they're after you. levin: phil became oprah's go-to expert, and her ratings soared even higher. so why not give him his own show? when that happened, was there competiveness between you and oprah? levin: dr. phil mcgraw, the man who turned the oprah seal of approval into a media empire of his own. - dr. phil! - how are you? it is so good to see you. thank you so much for this. welcome. welcome to our home. uh, this home is incredible. it is palatial. thank you. robin is quite the decorator. - okay, so let me tell you what we're gonna do. - all right. i want to learn about your life. i've read a lot about you, but i want to hear it from you, because there are twists and turns. - there are. - you ready? i'll answer anything you want to know.

i'll be like the therapist in this one. - okay, i need it. all right. let's do it. - let's do it. so, tell me what this is. well, this is--uh, this is a pilot log book. and this is from-- you see it says it's from cooks flying service? - yep. - this is a little town called iowa park, texas. - and i got my pilot's license there. - how old? i was 18. but you had been flying since 12. well, i had. my dad sold drilling bits and that sort of thing. he would put it in the back of an airplane and fly it into the rocky mountains. and so i was flying when i was 11. and when i say "i'm flying," he's letting me hold on, but you learn. i wanna take you back to your childhood. and having read a lot about you now, i feel like i see this small town with tumbleweed - all over the streets. - ( chuckles ) yeah, that's pretty much it. - tell me about it. - well, you know, we were poor. i was born in vinita, oklahoma, but we spent most of our lives in texas. and the truth is,

my dad was a pretty bad alcoholic. and, so, we never knew if we were gonna have money for food. we never knew if the electricity was gonna be on that day or whether it wasn't. you know what one of my favorite dr. phil lines is? - what's that? - can i--can i do a dr. phil impression? let's see it. ( texas drawl ) we were so poor, we couldn't even pay attention. - there you go. that's it. - ( laughs ) - that's pretty bad. - i'll do better in a few minutes. i grew up with a father that was drunk. i grew up when i wouldn't bring my friends home 'cause i didn't know if my dad was gonna be drunk in the driveway, naked, in denver, in january. you mentioned your dad was an alcoholic. there were episodes of violence between the two of you. that's pretty extreme. yeah, um... ( clears throat ) he was an animated drunk. ( chuckles ) he, uh-- some are kind of quiet or they go off and whatever.

my dad was a big powerful guy. and, um, we would have conflict. the kind of thing where he would get drunk and tear the venting hood off the-- out of the kitchen and throw it through the windows. it was that kind of thing. and when you live with that, it changes who you are, you know? i mean, you're a kid, you see violence between he and your mother, and you see all of that kind of thing and you're the only boy in the family--i had three sisters and a mother. and when dad spools up like that, and you're the only boy in the house, you stand in the gap, right? you step in to protect the women. and that led to a lot of conflict. how'd that affect you? again, i got to the point of realizing, uh, you, um, you rely on yourself.

- levin: your dad was a big influence in your life. - phil: he was. both negative and positive. and negative in that he was a bad alcoholic and i haven't had a drink in 50 years, 'cause i saw what it does and i just-- i don't do it. he was also the hardest-working man i've ever seen in my life. he was a trojan. i mean, there was nothing the guy would not do. and he gave me a tremendous work ethic. and i really thank him for that. i learned if you want something, you work for it. nobody's gonna give you anything. levin: you were an athlete. you were on the football team? - phil: i was. - levin: my understanding is, you may not have even graduated high school if it weren't for sports. not a chance would i have graduated. levin: so football, in many ways, is why you're here today. phil: i certainly wouldn't have graduated high school, i can tell you that. - you were a middle linebacker. - ( chuckles ) yeah. worst job i've ever had. - let me tell you, i've had some ( bleep ) jobs-- - ( giggles ) - that's at the top of the list. - because?

well, i was a middle linebacker and i was a really poor one. - it's a hard job anyway-- - because you get hit every play. exactly. if you're not very good at it, it's a really hard job. there's a tendency for those who mix psychology and religion, who know just enough to be dangerous, to use psychology as a weapon to judge. you, in many ways, got interested in psychology because of football. when you guys lost to, um, the salvation army team... - that's it. - and, um... you started thinking that there is a psychology of success - on these teams. - boy, you have done your homework. phil: we had a really good team and we had really good equipment and we had really good coaches, and i mean shiny helmets and the salvation army had a team-- these kids--i mean they're falling out of the back of these pick-ups. blue jeans instead of football pants. loafers. just slip-on shoes.

and none of their helmets matched. i mean, they just looked like rag-tag. harvey, they beat us so bad, i can't even tell you how bad they beat us. it was--we were watching them run up and down the field, - it looked like a track meet. - ( laughs ) those guys wanted it. those guys had the eye of the tiger. they wanted it, man. and i got focused at that point on what makes people a champion. and i got focused on why people do what they do and don't do what they don't do. and i have been focused on that since that day. that's why i'm sittin' here today. ( music playing ) levin: tell me what that is. - well, um... - i've seen a gavel or two in my life. my son, jay, gave me this, actually. and this is the actual gavel from the first wrap in the pilot

for "bull," which is the drama on cbs. which is really about your life running the jury consulting service. it is. this is inspired by my career as a trial scientist before i did the dr. phil show. out of this jury pool, you're gonna get three "not guilty" votes. - is that right? - yes. levin: you got your degree, why practice with your dad? because you had a problematic relationship. i did. and it was very important to him. he just had this dream of, you know, father and son, doctor and doctor, workin' together. and, you know, frankly, my mother asked me to do it. for you to be fighting and yelling and screaming in front of these kids, they don't deserve that. no, they don't. absolutely not. and that means the two of you need to grow up and behave yourselves. you, um, talk to millions of people now.

but when you practiced, it was one-on-one psychology. - did you like it? - i was the worst marital therapist - in the history of marital therapy. - ( laughs ) - i was absolutely the worst. honest to god. - why? because i had no patience for it. i mean, a couple would come in and they would start arguing back and forth and ten minutes in i'm like, my god, no wonder you people can't get along. i've been with you ten minutes, i can't stand either one of you. - ( laughing ) - you should definitely get a divorce. you should definitely get a divorce. i can't imagine going home with either one of you people. and i would say that. oh, my god. what was the divorce rate like? very high. very high. i think people came to me to get a divorce. like, "you wanna get rid of this ( bleep ), let's go see dr. phil." it was dr. mcgraw back then, not dr. phil, but... - you didn't like whining. - not at all. - and people whined. - yeah. people--they don't want to own what they need to own. and they wanna blame somebody else.

and i don't have much time for that. levin: the trial company you started was courtroom sciences, inc. csi. i'm a lawyer and i'm fascinated by these services, 'cause i think, honestly, in the oj simpson case, i think that trial company... won the case for them by the jury they picked. but you said something so interesting. "there's a huge difference between telling the truth and telling the truth effectively." explain that, because i think that's profound. well, you know, here's the thing... i would rather have... a weak fact pattern well told, than a great fact pattern poorly told. in any case, you've got a universe of a thousand facts. and out of those thousand facts, there's a subset of 10 or 12 facts that are gonna be outcome determinative.

that's what the jury is going to resolve this case on. and you have to figure out what those ten facts are. what the combination to that lock is, and you need to present that in a clear, concise, compelling way to that jury. and if you do, they're gonna bring you home. and if you don't, they won't. why did you seem to favor representing defendants rather than plaintiffs? i think we're way too litigious. and so my kinda heart was just in defending... the targets. because you think a lot of cases are bogus? or because you like helping people who go in the underdog? i think a lot of cases are bogus, and i definitely like helping the underdog. levin: you said once, "i feel about litigation the way patton did about war." - ( chuckles ) yeah. - yeah. god help me, i love it so. your company, csi, was... insanely successful.

and you became rich. you were a poor kid and a rich adult. did you worry, when you were rich, that you might be poor again? or was that in your past? no. i don't now. i don't worry about it now because i've done poor. i know how. ( chuckles ) it doesn't scare me. i know how to do it. give me a good pair of tennis shoes and... ya know, a warm coat. i'm good. ( music playing ) the way i met oprah, she had been sued in the mad cow case. they were suing for billions of dollars. she was constantly talking to you about "why me?". i remember one night, i said, i'll tell you what's going on here. you need to wake up, girl, and come present here because they're after you.

i'll tell you what's going on here. you need to wake up, girl, you like to be in control. especially when it comes to important stuff. like, say... your car. well, good news. the esurance app lets you keep an eye on your repairs when your car is in the shop. it's kinda like being there, without being there. which is probably better for everyone. that's insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis was intense. my mom's pain from i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us which is kinda, a lot.

and if that pain could mean something worse. joint pain could mean joint damage. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop further damage enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common. or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. since enbrel, my mom's back to being my mom. visit enbrel.com... and use the joint damage simulator to see how joint damage could progress. ask about enbrel. enbrel. fda approved for over 18 years. they kept prescribing it, aso i kept taking it.. i didn't know it'd be this addictive. i didn't know how far i'd go to get more.

where we're making the next generation of multiscreen welcadvertising possible.ght, we have the broad and targeted reach you need to access the customers you're looking for on tv and digital platforms. then we connect you to our team of media experts, who are ready to help you maximize your budget while elevating your advertising effectiveness. sounds like an advertising opportunity knocking. visit comcastspotlight.com today.

we all want to know you know, the new, new thing. with xfinity's retail stores, you can now see the latest. want to test drive the latest devices? be our guest. want to save on mobile? just ask. want to demo the latest innovations and technology? do it here. come see how we're making things simple, easy, and awesome. plus come in today and ask about xfinity mobile, a new kind of network designed to save you money. visit your local xfinity store today. "princess magna." what is this? - it's a yacht. - ah! - i bet it's a fancy yacht. - it is. - very. - what's the significance? well... um...as you i'm sure know, the way i met oprah was at csi. she had been sued in the mad cow case... - levin: i think i heard about that. - ...in amarillo, texas. male newscaster: texas ranchers claim she slammed beef on her show,

costing them millions. they said oprah set out to do them wrong. phil: we won a great victory. we zeroed them out. they were suing for billions of dollars. and, uh, i get a package, a box, from oprah. i open it up and there's this little note in there and it says, "i just don't know how to say 'thank you.' but i do know how to say 'yacht.'" ( both laugh ) - levin: where'd you go? - phil: we picked the boat up-- i think we picked it up in nice. and we went all up and down the coast over there, and went to capri and the amalfi coast and saint-tropez and all over there for a couple of weeks and just had a terrific time. ten years ago i was accused of saying some bad things about hamburgers. and because of that i was put on trial in texas, and that's how i met phil. levin: she said mad cow disease stopped her cold from eating burgers.

when you first heard that and knew that was the basis of the lawsuit, what'd you think? i thought it was an absolute ( bleep ) lawsuit. thought it was absolute frivolous. thought it was exploitive, opportunistic, and somebody trying to pay. get their name in the headlines. and trying to bully somebody with money into giving them some of hers. seriously, though, it was a very vulnerable time for me. and from the moment i met phil, i felt that he was the person who could take the lead and get us out of that hot mess. she was constantly talking to you about "why me? why am i being sued? this is unfair." you had a come-to-jesus with her. i remember one night, she does knock on my door in the middle of the night. we go into the game room and she said, "what the hell is going on here? i cannot wrap my head around this." i said, "i tell you what's going on here. these ol' boys are getting ready to hand you your ass on a platter."

i said, "you need to wake up, girl, and come present here because they're after you." - did she wake up? - did she ever. you did some mock trials and it didn't go well at the beginning. it did not go well in the beginning because oprah was very irritated, annoyed, angry, at being sued. as anyone would be. and she was very hostile. she was not the oprah people see on television. one of the jurors said, "why are you mad at us? we didn't sue you." and she looked at me and she said, "oh, my god." she talks about "light bulb moments." she said that was a light bulb moment. and when it came time for trial, she owned that courtroom.

and the difference between telling the truth and telling the truth effectively, was never more evident than when oprah winfrey took the witness stand. levin: you kind of made it a first amendment freedom of speech case. toward the end of that closing argument, we posed a question to the jury, "what kind of america will you wake up in tomorrow, if you muzzle oprah winfrey and take away her right to hold an open debate about something of public concern?" and that, i believe, struck a chord and carried the day. - yes! - ( cheers ) levin: there was some pressure to settle this case and you were against it. - phil: i was. - levin: that's risky. she had a group of lawyers in chicago that were telling her straight up to settle this case. and she asked me straight up, she said, "why would you not settle the case?" and i said, "because if you don't settle this case, if you take these guys to trial,

you take them to verdict. the line at the "sue oprah" window is gonna get a whole lot shorter. because if she settles one, she'll settle a hundred. you gonna become an atm. don't do it. did she continue to call you afterward for advice - on other things, too? - we talk constantly 'til today. yeah, and we've been involved in other cases, we've been involved in other crises-- - but i'm talking about even personal things. - sure. - does she call you for advice? - sure. yeah. as you do with any trusted friend. levin: she lives in such a higher level than just about anybody, yet, the way you describe it, she has some of the same insecurities that everybody has. everybody has insecurities. i think of her more as having sensitivities. that woman cares about people. she has what i call a "health-engendering personality." you feel better about you for being around her. ( music playing )

you were teased in college for being a "hick." there were a lot of people who thought you were abrasive. and there were even producers who felt that she should never have you back again. well i talked to oprah. she said, "oh, i want you to come back and turn up the heat." yeah... but popping these things really helps me...relax. please don't, i'm saving those for later.

at least you don't have to worry about renters insurance. just go to geico.com. geico helps with renters insurance? good to know. been doing it for years. that's really good to know. i'll check 'em out. get to know geico. and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be.

>> live from "america's news he. i'm robert gray. rescue efforts continue in thailand to extract the remaining eight boys in their soccer coach from a flooded cave. four boys were taken out sunday evening local time rush to the hospital for evaluation. rescue divers are preparing to extract the next group restocking the cave with oxygen tanks before they begin the next phase. the nine people still trapped have been in the cave for more than two weeks. at least one person killed

in residential building in williamsburg, new genia. helicopter crashed into it starting a fire. the fidelity was confirmed and 911 calls came in around 5:00 p.m. local time and police are still working to locate and identify the pilot of the helicopter. i am robert gray and now back to "objectified". so tell me what that is. well, this i've held onto because i was--this was special to me. when i show up at harpo studios... i get this badge, harpo. got my picture on it. - and uh... - phil, you look like a longshoreman. - i know. - ( laughs ) - phil: i look like a linebacker, right? - levin: you do. phil: and on the back it says, "harpo studios inc. access all areas." and understand, i'm from texas. so i'm not hollywood, i'm not a tv guy.

so starting to get into the tv arena and tv world, was really an interesting chapter for me. my next guest is here to help lead you in the right direction. i've chosen him because he is the person who helped me the most getting through my trial in texas. so this is now 21 years ago. so when you went there for the first time, did you view that as an audition? phil: i've never had any desire to be on television. it wasn't something i was really interested in doing. i was very engaged with what i was doing. i was very happy with what i was doing. yet, here you are, with the number one show on daytime television where the host, who now bonded with you, says come on a national platform - and let's see what happens. - phil: right. and you weren't intoxicated by that? no, not really. levin: you were teased in college for being a "hick." you have an accent.

- were you self-conscious? - no. no. i wasn't. i get up for it. anything i do i get up for it. but i don't get-- i don't get nervous. the first show, um, did not go great. and there were a lot of people who thought you were abrasive. they weren't used to it. if you have a need, you find a way to deal with it, don't you? the problem is, that we don't use food, we abuse food. levin: and there were even producers on the show who felt that she should never have you back again. - everybody but you, said, "it won't work." - yeah. that's true. - they said it won't work. - did you all know at first everybody told me this won't work. my producers, everybody, said this is not-- this guy-- and the audience had a really strong reaction to you, and it wasn't so good. ( laughter ) levin: did you know that at the time? uh, no, it did go great. - it went great from my perspective. - ( laughs ) it went great from oprah's perspective. it shocked a lot of people.

and a lot of people were like, "oh, my god. what did he say? what is he saying?" so i talked to oprah and said, "seems like some people are back on their heels. what do you think?" she said, "oh, i want you to come back and turn up the heat." she said, "you didn't tell them like it is, the way you do me. you held back." - and you turned up the heat. - i did. - can i be honest with you? - mm-hm. i didn't believe a word you said. i believe you said what you think you're supposed to say. i believe you said what you think the goals are supposed to be, because that's what gettin' better means. but what i'm telling you is you can't change what you don't acknowledge. there have been thousands of experts on the oprah show over 25 years. um, i'm going to ask you to be immodest for a minute.

because i think it's undeniable. why do you think you soared higher than all of them? i think it's a different voice. i think the whole thing is-- you have to rise above the noise. it's being distinctly different. and if that distinct difference is positive, then that works. i came on the show and the ratings spiked. and a lot of the mail that came in was about those episodes. and a lot of the transcripts that were ordered were about those episodes and all. a lot of people could have been threatened by that. oprah just kept pushing me to the forefront. just kept pushing me to the forefront. just kept doing everything she could to edify me, instead of her.

she's just-- she's just that generous in spirit. i thought that what you were offering me was good enough to share with other people. and i'm really proud that you've been able to do that in a way that has affected millions of people throughout this country and throughout the world. thank you for saying that. i mean, not ever was there a time that she had an opportunity to advance the dr. phil brand that she didn't take it, double it, and take it again. i mean, that's just what she's done. to this day. i mean, to this day she still does it. ( music playing ) you were enormously successful with oprah. but when you decided to do it on your own, was there competitiveness between you and oprah? because suddenly you've got these two gigantic shows. and she was the only game in town until you came along. ( music playing )

and she was the only game in town until you came along. my digestive system used to make me feel sluggish. but those days are over. now, i take metamucil every day. it naturally traps and removes the waste that weighs me down. so i feel... lighter. try metamucil and begin to feel what lighter feels like. and try new metamucil fiber thins, made with 100% natural psyllium fiber. a great-tasting and easy way to start your day.

[ horn honking ] [ engine revving ] what's that, girl? [ engine revving ] flo needs help?! [ engine revving ] take me to her! ♪ coming, flo! why aren't we taking roads?! flo. [ horn honking ] -oh. you made it. do you have change for a dollar? -this was the emergency? [ engine revving ] yes, i was busy! -24-hour roadside assistance. from america's number-one motorcycle insurer. -you know, i think you're my best friend. you don't have to say i'm your best friend. that's okay.

you don't have to say i'm your best friend. i want some more what's he doin? but, he can't look at him! it's just not done! please sir. i want some more more? more? more? more? please sir he has asked for... thank you what? well he did say please sir yes he did and, thank you yeah. and thank you he's a wonderful boy (laugh) a delightful boy (all boys): thank you, thank you, thank you.

levin: oh, my god! - ( chuckles ) - oh, my god! - this is my dream! - okay. now, what did i tell you? oh, god! - does this push you over the edge, or what? - i--i'm over. holy smokes! oh, god, this is amazing! - tell me about it. - now you got to admit, huh? i mean, honest to god this is my dre-- i used to go to dealerships when i was a kid and just look in the showroom window. - this is a '57 chevy. - yeah, a '57 chevy. oh, god! this is beautiful! bellaire. and this is my dream car. yeah, i told you i didn't have a lot of money, - but i had a lot of dreams. - do you drive it?

- i drive it all the time. - do you drive it to the studio? - i--all the time. - ( engine purrs ) - jeez! ( laughs ) - ( revs engine ) ( engine roars ) ( revving engine ) oh, my god. you're driving down sunset blvd in a convertible '57 chevy that goes 200 miles an hour. you're not into being inconspicuous, are you? - ( laughs ) - well, see, when you've got a head like a nickel beer... - ( laughs ) - ...they can spot you from anywhere. but, uh, you've got to put your hat on so you can hide. okay, let's talk about the show. so, um, you were enormously successful with oprah. but when you decided to do it on your own somebody said, right before your show aired, "he's basically dr. laura with a mustache, and she failed at tv, so it's not gonna work for him." - were you nervous? - well, people ask me, "will you miss oprah?

do you think it'll make a difference that she's not there?" and i'm like, "um, let me think. uh, we're going to eliminate the most clarion voice in the history of television from the equation. do you think that'll matter? - uh...yeah." - ( laughs ) yeah, i think there's a good chance that will matter. oprah really believed in it. she said this is gonna work and there are reasons why. - was she grooming you? - oh, it was no question. - we planned it that way. - it was an immediate hit. and you have just been enormously successful. when that happened, was there competitiveness between you and oprah? because suddenly you've got these two gigantic shows. and she was the only game in town until you came along. not at all, and i'll tell you why. we, uh--my momma didn't raise no fool.

and we both agreed when they went out to sell the show that they could never sell it where we were head-to-head. ever. ever. was that to protect both of you from human nature? um, i don't know what it was for her - but it was to keep me from getting my ass kicked. - ( laughs ) their responsibility to support you as an adult is no more than your responsibility to do what they tell you. when you're doing the show, do you view yourself as a talk show host or a psychologist? uh, neither. i view myself as an educator. um, 'cause as i say, they're teaching tools. and i don't consider what i'm doing as therapy. but i do think it's-- it's educational. i've been doing tv for a long time, as you have. and i think i have a sense of what makes certain people click. in my opinion, you're a great entertainer.

do you view yourself as an entertainer? well, i hope so. and i've had people ask me that. you're not asking it as an insult. - some people do. - i'm not asking it as an insult. no, that's what i mean. i realize you're not. some people have said, "isn't what you do a lot of entertainment?" and i hope so. what i try to do is tell a compelling story. and then resolve it in a way that people can use. my father died without ever one time in my life ever saying he was proud of me. don't you do that to your boy. finish this sentence: as a boss i am... demanding. i think when people write in... are willing to put their lives out there... get on an airplane, fly all the way out here...

come out there and lay it all out, they deserve our absolute, undivided attention. they deserve for us to have done our homework on their situation. on the research, the history, resources, the whole thing. and i think we should be buttoned up. and we are. ( music playing ) when you met robin, she broke up with you because you wouldn't commit. she didn't break up with me. she kicked my dog-ass to the curb. ( laughing )

well, esurance makes it simple and affordable. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. paying too much for insurance that isn't the right fit? well, esurance makes finding the right coverage easy. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call.

tell me about that. well, you know, robin and i got married in 1976. we've been married 41 years. - levin: gosh. - phil: if you can believe that. and when we got married, i said, what do you want to do for a honeymoon? she said, "i want to go to 'the price is right.'" so you--oh, no. so you came to los angeles to go to a game show? phil: seriously, we flew out here and went to 'the price is right.' and i'm standing in line over here at television city, and we actually got picked. we didn't get on the show. - but they, you know, pull certain people-- - levin: right.

and robin was so energetic, and these were our nametags. levin: when you met robin-- you dated for four years-- she broke up with you because you wouldn't commit. she didn't break-up with me. she kicked my dog-ass to the curb. ( laughing ) phil: she said you're either in or you're out. you've had enough time. you're out. it's like, what am i-- who am i kidding here? she's part of my life. and so i said i really can never thank her enough for that wake-up call. because if i had let her get away, i'd have never forgiven myself. levin: one of the things that surprised me was something you did for her for your 20th anniversary. - something you wrote for her. - i wrote her a book of poems. one for each year that we had been married. and i actually-- this was the hard part-- i actually collected pictures from each year.

and made her a book. and i called it, "the twenty year spin..." and gave it to her and she has treasured that greatly. and i'm not a great poet. but i did like the last one. 'cause i remember the last one. i said, "if life were a garden and i could walk through again, you're the flower i would pick for another 20 year spin." and we've now gone another 20 years. levin: when jay was born, he had a medical problem. and that really impacted you. each of the boys has had one medical problem that has impacted me as much as anything in my life. and with jay at just four weeks old, he had pyloric stenosis. this valve here where he could not get any nutrition to his stomach. - so he had to go into surgery. - he could have starved to death.

he could have starved to death and any time you put a child under anesthesia at four weeks old, high risk. and i was on staff at that hospital, and the doctors were friends and i was actually able to carry him into the operating room... - oh, you insisted on it, i understand. - ...myself, yeah. i did. i just wanted to take him in there. - how did it change you? - i realized, you know, it's not just about you anymore. you now have the responsibility of a child. levin: let's talk about jordan for a minute. how'd that happen? because you had a vasectomy. i did. i got a vasectomy because we agreed we were just gonna have one child. um, and then, about six years later, we were in this big meeting,

she was on the other side of the room, but the ceiling was a parabolic reflector. and i heard her whisper as though she was right in my ear. and i heard her say, "i regret ever having agreed to just have one child." and i thought, "wow." and, the next morning, i was at the hospital making rounds and our obgyn who had delivered jay, joe miller, i was telling him about this. and, uh, he said, "well, you know we can reverse that, right?" i'm walking into the operating room taking my shirt off. - ( laughs ) oh, no. - no ( bleep ). i walk in taking my shirt off, they're looking around, going down, looking down here, they smuggled me into the operating room. he does a four-and-a-half-hour surgery under a microscope,

puts it all back together. so, they stand me up and walk me out. this is like "weekend at bernie's." oh, my god. they walk me out, i can't move. they pull up in front of my house at, like, 8:30. they get me out of the car, stand me up, he puts a pink wrapped present with baby clothes under one arm, a blue wrapped present of baby clothes under the other arm, stand me at the curb, and blow the horn and pull off and leave me standing there. and i tell her, "i've heard what you said in that room and i've had my vasectomy reversed." and she just starts crying, couldn't be happier. they say there's a 50-50 chance it'll work. she's pregnant in seven weeks. way to go. the mcgraw boys can swim. ( laughs ) ( music playing )

one of the reasons i wanted to do this with you is because i'm just fascinated that you've succeeded in so many different areas. you've succeeded in psychology, in jury science, you've succeeded in television, in business. what's the secret? you've succeeded in television, in business. i've been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. i bet i'm the first blade maker you've ever met. there's a lot of innovation that goes into making our thinnest longest lasting blades on the market. precision machinery and high-quality materials from around the world. nobody else even comes close. it's about delivering a more comfortable shave every time. invented in boston, made and sold around the world. order now at gilletteondemand.com. gillette.

the best a man can get.

..

( music playing ) well, this is fantastic. how often do you play? - uh, every day. - do you, really? yeah. what's this? this is an old racket.

this was given to me by the mother of my dear friend, bill dawson. marge dawson played with this racket in tulia, texas, in her senior year. - 1938 in tulia, texas. - wow. can you b-- can you imagine hitting a ball with that? - i-- it's such a small head. - yeah. - can you actually hit a ball with this? - yes. mardy fish, who's one of the top-ranked american players, who just retired, has played me with this racket. - did he beat you? - like a drum. ( laughs ) okay, i want to talk about rules to live by. because you're an expert at that. we'll see. one of the reasons i wanted to do this with you is because i'm just fascinated that you've succeeded in so many different areas. you've succeeded in psychology, in jury science, you've succeeded in television, in business. - what's the secret? - well, you know, for me... i-i think it's really a matter of knowing what you want

and knowing what you're willing to do to get it. i know what i can do and i know what i can't do. - you stay in your lane. - i do, i stay in my lane. - how do you take losing? - not well. - not well. - do you throw that? - no, i don't. - ever? i just come back harder the next time. - until you win? - damn right. well... ( laughs ) you talk about creating your experience a lot. i'm not sure i understand what that means. i think you get what you give. i think if you go through life like really negative and a chip on your shoulder and pessimistic-- that's how you engage the world, you're going to get negative, pessimistic, chip-on-your-shoulder responses from people. if you go through life where you have an expectation of success, and you have an expectation that people are going to accept what you're offering, then you're so much more likely that you're gonna get that result. i was a person with a damaged truth, so i know that.

like i say, i lived with an alcoholic father. i'd go to school knowing that the windows in my kitchen got kicked out last night, that we didn't have any utilities, and i'm sitting next to a kid and i compare my reality with his social mask. that's what kids do. and, as a result, you feel second class, and so you generate the results you think you deserve. - you don't believe in victims. - i don't. i don't. and that doesn't mean that people can't, transiently, be preyed upon. but i tell people that have been molested in their childhood, "you have zero responsibility for that happening to you as a child. you have 100% responsibility for what you do about it as an adult." we are the same age, and i have a fear that if i stop working, i'm gonna drop dead. do you have a fear like that?

i do. i think if anybody loses passion in their life, if there's not something that they feel a purpose for, i think it really takes away a life drive. i think if you don't have a reason to get up tomorrow, if you don't have something that you think is a meaningful contribution to this life, i think your whole purpose, your momentum, your whole drive goes away. and, i-- you know, i'm starting to make changes in my life now that anticipate what i know is coming. what is coming? ( laughs ) well, i wasn't exactly eye candy when i started television. ( laughs ) so, as each day goes by, i'm looking more and more like an old catcher's mitt. so i'm starting to do things behind the camera.

i gotta tell ya, i have really enjoyed this. you are one impressive guy. thank you so much, dr. phil. well, i'm really flattered that you wanted to do this. i'm honored. - well, thank you so much. - i am honored, thanks. all right. >> i believe the person i pick will do a great job. i haven't made it official yet. we are close to making a decision. i'll probably decide tonight or tomorrow around 12:00. we have a great country, folks. we have a great country. steve: welcome to the next revolution. that was president trump saying he's close to making a decision. we are