>> it's over. you got france. you won. all right? that might be the first wager i have lost this year. >> you're right. >> my track record is ruined. >> pretty good. >> thanks for joining us. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> new reaction to president trump making his presence felt big time in brussels. on day one of the nato summit where russia is looming large as a topic. during a tense exchange with the nato secretary general, the president calling on our allies to contribute more to their own defense and demanding to know why the united states spends so much defending nato countries from a threat from russia and the europeans spend billions buying gas from russia. this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here's melissa francis. republican strategist and fellow for the independent women's voice, the very independent woman's voice, lisa booth. and analyst and marie harf.

and for the very first time in the center seat, 11 days into his retirement, former acting director of immigrations and customs enforcement, ice, tom homan. here to talk about everything breaking news. thanks for being here. >> thanks for your service. >> ice, a huge topic on this days. i can't wait to get your thoughts. >> you're going to get plenty of them. >> you want to hell list to the miss? >> hi to my wife and child and watching. unfortunately they're under a threat. they're safe. they have people surrounding them. i'll be home tonight. >> god bless. know in your former role, that's part of the job. glad you're here. the president not mincing words at the nato summit. saying countries like germany are doing business with russia while they depend on the u.s. to

help protect them. the president referred to a proposed pipeline that would double the amount of gas that goes to germany and calling on nato partners to do more in their own defense. watch. >> many countries owe us a tremendous amount of money for many years back where they're delinquent as far as i'm concerned. the united states has had to pay for them. no other president brought it up like that. something has to be done. germany is totally controlled by russia. they're getting 60 to 70% of energy from russia in a new pipeline. you tell me if that's appropriate. i think it's not. i think it's a bad thing for nato and i don't think it should have happened. on top of that, germany is just paying over 1%. whereas the united states in actual numbers is paying 4.2% of a much larger gdp. so i think that's inappropriate also. >> a short time later, the

president met with angela merkel. they didn't say much in the sit-down. chancellor merkel insisted that germany is not controlled by russia. john roberts is live in brussels. beautiful place there and the topics are hotter than fire. john? >> yeah, good evening to you. we're finally inside the new nato headquarters. looks like the interior of one of the imperial battle cruisers from star wars. this is what $1.5 billion will buy you, which the president thought was outrageous. in the president pointing 0 it a double standard. we're paying 4% of our gdp. countries like germany paying more than 1%. so is the original purpose of nato is to protect europe against russia. the president is miffed that germany will be buying a lot of gas from russia that will be coming down through these two

new pipelines. the president got in a spirited exchange with the nato secretary general earlier today. listen here. >> how can y you be the person against the protection? >> when we stand together, also dealing with russia, we are stronger. i think -- >> no. you're making russia richer. you're not dealing with them. you're making them richer. >> in that bilateral meeting with angela merkel, the subject came up. the president did say that the meeting was cordial. listen here. >> we're having a great meeting. we're discussing military expenditure. we're talking about trade. we have a very, very good relationship with the chancellor. we have a tremendous relationship with germany.

they've been commended. i congratulate you. tremendous success. i believe that our trade will increase and lots of other things will increase. >> the german foreign minister had a very sharp response to the president saying in a state, we're not captive, neither to russia or the u.s.a. we're one of the guarantors of the free world and that will remain the case. in his bilateral meeting with president macron, president trump was asked if he believe if germany is held captive but russia. he didn't answer the question. he let emmanuel macron say in french that he believes germany is not held captive by russian. so a lot of tension between the united states and germany on this particular day. we're expecting a statement out of nato though. we understand, harris, that as this summit progresses, there

should be by the end of it a communique showing strong solidarity between all of the 28 nato member nation and a strong commitment for everyone to meet that financial commitment of 2% of gdp to nato. we'll see. >> that's fascinating. i know after the last summit communique, not everybody abided by it. so we'll see if everybody signs on board means it and follows through. thanks, john. >> some very -- yeah, very big countries including france, germany, canada, italy and belgium, the home to nato, are nowhere near 2%. they have given themselves till 2024 to get there, which a lot of people think is slow-walking it. we'll see. >> thank you. great to have you reporting on the program. tom homan is with us. i would imagine when it comes down to having a clear message from the president, some of this

must resonate with you in some degree because as leadership at ice, the president is also been very clear on where he stands. >> i think the president is doing his job, what he promised to do. protecting the interests of this country. that's what he should be doing, that's what he campaigned on. i support him. sometimes he's coarse in the way he does it. >> so you heard about the time line. 2024 seems like a long way down the road. you think these countries are -- i don't know if you want to use the word honest but determined maybe is a better word to be clear and to share more and to come to the table with more cash. >> i think 2024 is a ways -- too much time. being in the federal government, 34 years, the bureaucracy involved with solving issues like this, i understand the long timeline. but 2024, should be shortened

faster. but nothing happens fast. >> your experience about that. let's talk about the money. the 2%. when you look at germany, i had a lawmaker tell me it's about $51 billion or so they're putting in. less than 2% of their gdp. it's never fair. our gdp is so much bigger. >> the money that i like to focus on is this gas pipeline. the president was genius to just take the lid off of this and bring it out for the whole world to look at. you're looking at words on the left and actions on the right. you go over to nato and it's the same thing. they talk tough about putin, but then their actions, they get into bed with him. you talk about collusion. they're rolling out this pipeline. you look, the former german chancellor is on the board of gazprom? that's russia's oil company. you want to talk about

collusion. you have an individual from germany getting rich on this pipeline while the president is rolling out sanctions and in america they're screaming at the president, you have to be tougher. you have to do more sanctions. you have to talk to her. he's saying how can my sanctions be effective when you're rolling money in that direction in order to get your gas? >> before we move on, i want to press in with you a little bit to put some dollar signs. what are we talking about in terms of that relationship between germany and russia? i know you're looking at it. >> yeah. they talked about a $11 billion pipeline. who knows. it's more of the percentage when you talk about the percentage of natural gas, which could be as much as 70% of germany's supply going that way. makes them dependent on russia. funnels money to russia at a time when everybody is screaming squeeze them with sanctions. how can you say that and then on the top of it to have an individual who was in the government enriching himself --

talk about collusion! >> i want to piggyback on the energy front. it was merkel's office that released the photo of her staring down president trump, continue to drive the narrative that president trump is at odds with his allies. then what does merkel do with the pipeline? you estimate from 50% of above. increases russia's share in germany's gas market. as president trump laid out, making them beholden to russia. that allows russia to have leverage over other european countries. they can cut off their gas to ukraine after the annexation of crimea. it gives russia leverage. so i find it ironic that it's merkel's office driving that narrative. >> quick follow up with you. as we all did yesterday, as we learned that angela merkel says something to the effect. i was there. i know what it looks like to

have a germany controlled by russia. that's not what this is. that second part is paraphrased. but that's what she technically said. what is your response? >> she's allowing herself to be beho beholden to russia. president trump is right to call them out on that front. in terms of nato, kay bailey hutchison said on "fox news sunday," we're seeing the biggest increase in countries willing to pay their fair share with defense spending since the cold war. the president was criticized for making those points as trying to give leverage to russia. instead, they're enboldening the nato alliance. >> marie, what risk do we run of being bold like this? the president says this is not a change in the truth. this is the fact that he's raising it now. >> there's ways to raise concerns with our allies without

alienating them. bob corker said "sometimes it feels like we punch our friends in the nose and hold our hands out to those that are working against us." my point would be, if you don't like the pipeline, raise it -- >> you don't think he has? this is not a president mincing his words. >> if you have a problem, raise it privately. when he says germany is controlled by russia? the language he uses -- which matters, melissa. it matters. >> language or actions? >> the fact that donald trump says things all the time -- >> what happens when you draw red lines when you don't follow-through? >> we're not talking about barack obama. we're talking about donald trump. >> he kept his message -- >> one at a time. >> the nato alliance today, they're concerned that donald trump will not have their back because of the way he attacks them in public. if he meets with president putin

and he says nice things, that is bad for american -- >> can i respond to that? >> i said if. if he does, which he's done in the past, it will be a problem for our security. >> so tom, where you started with us today, acknowledging how sometimes the president puts things. i want to give you the last word on this. >> look, i see no problem. i think transparency is a good thing. the world needs to no what is going on. private discussions amount to nothing. like the issues today. transparency, talking to the american people, talking to the world about nato is the right format. >> and that whole thing with energy, i don't know everyday working americans like my family members, i don't know that they would know the details about the coziness between russia and germany with this energy. so it is a transparency that you're talking about. we're going to move on. so much more. glad to have you. the trump cabinet secretary

overseeing the process defending the administration. they work to reunite migrant children with their parents saying they're operating in the best interests of the kids. critics say otherwise. plus, this comes as a group of democrats prepare a bill to effectively abolish ice. one congressman says the agency can no longer carry out its mission. former acting ice director, tom, to my left has a lot to say about this. high protein

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xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. >> the trump administration says here proceeding with caution and care to reunite families separated at the border. the administration faced a court-ordered deadline yesterday. they reunited about half of the children under 5 with their families. alex azar defending the pace of the process. >> we could put children back with individuals that are murders, kidnappers, rapists, but we've worked with the court to protect child welfare and make sure they're that. if we haven't done this work, if we hadn't done our work to protect child welfare by doing criminal background checks on these individuals, they would

have been reunited in dangerous situations. i'm proud of the work we do. i believe we're saving kids lives here. >> meanwhile, this comes as the government says they'll will release migrant families wearing angle bracelet monitors in the united states. one ice official telling the "new york times" "parents with children under the age of 5 are being reunited with their children and released and enrolled into an alternative detention program" meaning they will be placed on an ankle bracelet and released into the community. i'm glad that we have you here to talk about this issue. i've heard you give some straight talk on this in the past. first of all, how hard is it to confirm that the people posing as parents are really those parents and how often do you see that it may be isn't the parents that are with the child? different sides of the media believe different things? >> we talk about facts. most instances that someone

claims to be a parent, they're not. they're part of trafficking. the numbers are astounding. as far as the story about hhs not working quick enough on reunification, you have a judge that made a decision, grabbed an arbitrary date, which was unreasonable. he doesn't understand the processes that hhs has to go through. ncic, family checks. make sure that these parents are good parents. look at this 102 children under the age of 5. 26 of them weren't reunited because of various issues. 16 of the 26 are because the parents weren't fit. they have significant criminal histories. one had a conviction for murder, one for child cruelty and molestation. take that out of the fix, another five that based on dna testing weren't the parents. a couple parents came forward before the testing and said, i'm

not the parent. so theres a lot of work to make sure the children are safe. that's the number 1 concern that you don't read in the media. the number 1 concern of ice and doj is to make sure they're safe. if you're going to release them, make sure they're not a victim of trafficking. it takes time. you can't do it based on arbitrary dates set by a judge that doesn't understand the process. >> i mean, how do you feel about the fact that your agency or former agency is being attacked for basically abusing these children, for separating them from their parents when you hear about the conditions that they're in? you hear people sort of raging over these poor children and you say that your number 1 concern there is the welfare of those children? how do you reconcile that? how do you feel about that and how do you respond to that? >> couple things. the fine men and women that i

consider american patriots, but very fact that like ice agents, they leave the safety and security of their home every day the defend this nation. shame on anybody vilifying them. so these agents, they don't change diapers and make formula. they're doing a great job taking care of the kids until they're handed off to hhs. these kids are being well-taken care of. look at the underlying issue. why do family separations even happen? >> that's my question. why separate them in the first place. >> let's look at the problem. first of all, the parents of these children chose to enter illegally, which is a crime. all right? so under the zero tolerance policy, they will be prosecuted. that means they go to jail and child gets separated. like any american family. i was a police officer in new york. if you're arrested for domestic violence, you're going to remove the children from the home.

it's sad when the child cries, don't want you to take his daddy but you have to do your job and remove that threat and put them in jail. for these groups and these leftis leftists. they want better conditions for illegals than a united states citizen. >> and the forest settlement? >> that's the underlying issue. when the crisis first started in fy-14, when families started surging, secretary johnson was the secretary. i respected him. i said let me built family did tension centers. there's no deterrence. they'll keep coming. he did. we built them. so now we're detaining the families in a family setting long enough to so a judge. they're claiming asylum. >> rather than separating them. >> and most of them lost their cases. 80% of the cases are lost in immigration court. they got to see a judge, got a final order and we removed them. the first two plane fulls of

family we sent back had immediate impact. numbers dropped significantly on the crossings of the border. it wasn't until the ninth circuit came up, judge gee that said we're going to start treating accompanied children with their parents as well as nonaccompanied children. as soon as that decision was made, it was a matter of days until the numbers climb. people heard that. the smuggling organizations use that and the numbers sky rocket again. so the settlement agreement was the underlying reason. if the democrats and congress that want to vilify the men and women of ice, they have a right to come in here and claim asylum, they have a right to due process, i agree. but let's do it and see a judge. >> are 20 days long enough. a lot of questions that, you know, maybe democrats and republicans could work on together. i want to tap into your

experience across six different administrations. you seen how other presidents have handled this. why hasn't it been solved until this point? the pictures of children in cages came from the obama administration in 2014 but they could have been previous to that, too. we have not significantly made a difference with this issue in decades. why not? >> we actually have under president trump. >> i'm talking previous administrations. before we got here. what is changing? >> i started working under up reagan. i respect every president i worked for. no president has done more for border security than president trump. the first year he was in office and we were out there enforcing law the way we're supposed to because he allowed us to through his executive actions. a number of illegal border crossings dropped to a 45-year low. a four-decade low. that's not a coincidence. that's because this president let ice do their job. back to your original question.

is 20 days long enough? no. the courts don't work that quick. what happens, the families get reduced and they don't show up -- >> now they have ankle bracelets. they're changing the details -- >> many don't show up in court. the ones that do, when they get a final order of removal, they don't leave. that's why we have a half a million fugitive aliens in the country right now. >> marie, i want you to get in. >> also to your question, congress could do something but they haven't through the administrations. tom, there's reports that people, adults have been sent back to their home countries while their kids have remained in hhs custody. is that how the process should work? seems like they should be reunited with their children before they're deported. because now we have essentially for look of a better term, orphans that will be put in foster care because their parents in another country don't know how to find them. that seems like -- >> they -- >> shouldn't the child go with

them? >> if the parent wanted to, they could have made arrangements. i know a couple cases where the parent says no, i want my child here. he's good to go. they can go to relatives, i'll go back. >> what about where parents asked for children back and the children don't know how to find their parents? is that what the u.s. government should be doing? >> that's fake news. there's -- i've been doing this 34 years. >> you don't think it's happen something. >> no. i can tell you hhs and ice is working closely. ice is detaining parents. every place the parent goes, their list and names are sent to hhs. hhs sends the information back to the parents. they're making arrangements to communicate by phones. >> so the stories that are happening are not true? so -- >> you can pick a case where maybe somebody made a mistake in processing. the overall processes are worked. the bottom line is, the parents are separated because they chose to violate the laws of the

country, commit a crime and enter illegally. if they enter through the port of entry, they still have the same legal protections, they still can climb asylum and not be separated. they chose. i know if i cross between the ports, it's a crime. i'm going to do it anyways. so the first blame is with the parents. the second is with the florist settlement agreement. the third is with congress. i was on the hill when we asked congress for a fix. fix this agreement. raise the standards of asylum that people are taking advantage of. congress want to vilify ice. we gave them the fix months ago. >> we know what the problem is with congress. >> they're putting their political interests before public safety. they want this to be an issue in november. they can fix it if they want to. they don't want to fix it. they want the president to have a black eye in november. >> we're going to take a break.

we have the rest of the hour here. we appreciate the questions and the input from everybody. we want to keep this going. we have more coming up with former acting ice director tom homan on the abolish ice movement. how does he feel about it and how he's former agency is being treated and how does he answer these questions. plus, the president said that peter strzok and lisa page were getting cold feet ahead of their testimony this week. page has backed out. how lawmakers plan to address that and whether she's facing legal trouble. >> she was a part of a mess that we've uncovered at doj. she has an obligation to testify. real cheese people know good things come in threes.

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strzok, won't appear at the closed-door hearing on capitol hill. this defies a congressional subpoena. her attorney says page needs more information from the committee to prepare. saying in a statement, the committees would be asking lisa about materials that she's not yet been shown. in fact, lisa and i went to the fbi today to review the materials that were previously produced to congress relating to her proposed interview. after waiting more than three hours, we were not provided with any documents. chairman bob goodlatte fired back with this. >> then a short time ago, speaker of the house, paul ryan, said this.

>> she was a part of a mess that we've uncovered at doj. she has an obligation to testify. if she wants to plead the fifth, that's her choice. a subpoena to testify is not optional. it's mandatory. she needs to comply and i stand behind the chairman. >> so she won't show. it's days before peter strzok testifies publicly for the first time on capitol hill. a lot going on. you've look at these investigations. so curious to get your thoughts on this. >> first of all, i respect goodlatte very much. he's on point here. she's defying congress and her oath she took as an employee for a federal law enforcement agency. she should be testifying in front of congress and be transparent. that's a part of her responsibility. i testified in front of congress many times. many times i didn't want to testify in front of congress because there's certain people up there trying to beat us up and vilify us.

it's my responsibility. nobody had to subpoena me. it's a shame that she requires the subpoena. i think if she doesn't comply, she needs to be held accountable. >> one entering suggestion came from jason chaffetz that said why don't you put them down next to a table and depose them? >> probably should do that and have them testify at the same time. i think she has a responsibility as someone that took an oath with a federal law enforcement agency to talk to congress. i think she will be made to talk to congress. it's unfortunate we have to go through this. she should do it willingly. she can claim the fifth. it's her right. but she has an obligation to the american people that paid her salary to be transparent. >> lisa, what do you say about

people needing more time for documents? the reason for not doing this -- >> she doesn't want to face congress because there was clearly -- the i.g. report laid out in strzok's case a willing need to take action. so now they have to see what happened with the russia investigation and get to the bottom of that. i'm interested in the next i.g. report looking at the russia investigation to find any evidence of action taken. that's the crux at the issue. what we continue to find out are more questions about things like we're going to stop president trump or as molly hemingway tweeting out and reported today, strzok wrote at gps -- fusion gps' glenn simpson testified that he never communicated with the fbi. so we have these links and the

questions. the big question is what action was taken to change the outcome of the russia investigation or is that the reason for the russia investigation to begin with. >> the bigger umbrella here which cuts across both parties is the idea that what happens when somebody inside like an important agency in our lives as the americans as the fbi and the doj, what happens when there is bias in this organization among employees. and this was a different kind of a working relationship, marie. they were lovers. there's a lot of material there to read through and maybe one was trying to impress the other. we don't know. there was a said plan to keep the president out of the white house. >> they texted about something that we don't know what they were talking about. so i said yesterday and i said today, she should go before congress and answer questions. she should answer them. if there's

so you have these two individuals that retained positions. your last thoughts. >> i think these two individuals put a black eye on one of the

finest law enforcement agencies in the world. i know a lot of fbi agents. i know a lot of senior managements. it's a great agency. we can't vilify the agency. you have great men and women there that do great work. these two need to come forward and tell congress what they know. try to take the shadow off of the bureau. it's a great law enforcement agency. until we find out what happened, the shadow hangs over the agency that does a very important job to do, mainly anti-terrorism efforts. let them get back to work and take the shadow off the fbi. >> we'll see if that happens. peter strzok on the hill tomorrow. on "outnumbered overtime," i'll interview bob goodlatte and get his reaction to lisa page. live, chairman goodlatte at

1:00 p.m. and coming up, the abolish ice movement among democrats. that's coming up. oh. hey mom.

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>> there's a new push by a group of democrats to turn the abolish ice movement into action. proposed legislation would abolish ice. congressmen saying the ice brand has been so damaged by the president it can no longer accomplish its original mission. all democrats are not on board, including chuck schumer. let me ask you. besides the direct issue that we're talking about here about people crossing the border, what are the other things that isodose that if somebody went

ahead of abolish ice, what would happen? >> let's talk about the border. every person that crosses the border, nobody would look for them. every person that gets caught and wants to see a judge, once the judge orders him removed, nobody will look for them. that's open borders. ice does more. we do drug trafficking, terrorism investigations. the most populated law enforcement. we do investigation about smuggling technology to countries that are not supposed to have it like weapons technology. we do significant homeland security investigations. the problem with the message from pocan and the others, they're not looking at the facts. everybody we arrested last year had a criminal history. nine out of ten people had a

criminal history. we're prioritizing that first. what schumer, gillibrand and pocan and durbin, they say ice lost their message. these are the same congressmen and senators that support sanctuary cities. they say concentrate on criminals. we're going to reach criminals from jail. it's incredible how they're mismessaging to the american people what's going on. >> we're seeing somebody push legislation in representative, diane black. she's trying to toughen that part of the language about criminalality. you're looking at hardened crimes in the past. how would it help or make a difference for something like what congresswoman black is

advocating for? >> i think it will help. it would be an added deterrence. i can't blame anybody for wanting to be the best country in the world but you can't be a part of this country and not respect the laws. that's the way it should be. and the whole abolish ice movement, they don't understand the complexities what ice does. the worker with do. senator gillibrand and cuomo wants cease and desist operations in new york. i try to educate them that we arrested 5,000 criminal aliens off of the street of new york, many that walked out of their sanctuary jails. when i was ice director, we pulled millions in the northern border for ice, hsi to work with local sheriffs and chief of police to fight the opioid crisis and the child predator crimes. i've done more for the state of new york than they have as far

as the safety of the state. so ice protects their communities. abolishing ice is not going to happen. i think it's going to hurt them in november. >> got so much more to get to. a report finds more police officers killed in the line of duty this year. what is behind it and how can we better protect them. no matter who rides point, there are over 10,000 allstate agents riding sweep. call one today. are you in good hands? but she's got work to do.pain. so she took aleve this morning. if she'd taken another pain reliever, she'd be stopping for more pills by now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill.

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call now to learn more. >> a new report finding that 73 officers were killed in the line of duty in the first part of the year. more than half killed in all of 2017. 7% more than this same time period last year. the report finding if the pace continues through this december, there would be a 13% increase from 2017. tom, you're a former police officer, long-time law enforcement. how are you looking at these numbers? what do you a tribute the increase to? >> i think a lot of it started in the last administration. i think there's been attacks on law enforcement. part of it started in ferguson. i think the public has been conditioned in the last decade to -- they have a right not to comply with law enforcement. they don't have a right to not

comply. if you don't like the actions, take them to court. but an officer will arrest you, you better comply. i can tell you that slowly detearated the last decade. the public is watching what happens in washington d.c. what i just discussed, you have dick durbin, you have senator gillibrand making a statement that ice officers are incompetent. these are law enforcement. men and women that leave their home every day and put their lives on the line for a little bit of money. we're not asking for a break. we're asking for respect. for them to call law enforcement officers incompetent. you know what that is? incompetent is when a u.s. senator wants a law enforcement officer to ignore the law rather than fix it. >> i think -- >> incompetence is when your senator vilifies the men and women enforces the law that he

enacted. rather than congress fixing laws, they want to get villified. that's incompetence at the base. >> and rahm emanuel who said -- >> i was going to say there's a big leap between politicians criticizing a public agency and more police officers getting killed. that makes me nervous. 31 were fire related, 21% traffic causes. it's a big leap -- >> i'm not making a leap. i'm saying -- the america i grew up in, i grew up in a small town upstate new york. police officers were respected and revered. i started deteriorating with social media. i'm saying it doesn't help when

you have dick durbin vilifying law enforcement, calling us incompetent. shame on you. >> real quick. what role did law enforcement play in that? do they play in role in that push back and the disrespect? is there more law enforcement they could be doing? >> no. i think law enforcement is doing everything they can they're reaching out to communities, doing community policing. i think it's the last decade. i've seen so much movement away from respect for law enforcement. you have protesters showing up at my house after i retire. >> we have to go. sorry. >> we'll be back in a minute with more "outnumbered." stay tuned.

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>> harris: all right, thanks to tom homan. we are back tomorrow. and a fox news alert with breaking news, we are awaiting the arrival of president trump, where he is about you take part in a nato welcome ceremony. the summit got off to a rocky start perhaps by some of our allies come they would describe it that way. let's go to "outnumbered overtime." i am harris faulkner. at any minute, the president will meet with those who recalled the family photo. it happened in brussels ahead of the working dinner, and it was a little bit bumpy today. the president slammed americans allies about their defense contributions, cash, and not