there's a blue screen on that monitor. there's something about sharks. i'll take it. we'll see you at seven tonight, thank you, "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: fox news alert, paul manafort appearing in court today on day one of the first trial stemming from special counsel robert muller's russia investigation but as far as we know, this trial has nothing to do with any alleged trump campaign collusion with russia. that said, the stakes are still sky-high on both sides. a conviction against the former trump campaign chairman may be a big boost for the special counsel's probe, but an acquittal could undermine it and claims it is nothing more than a partisan witch hunt. where have i heard that? this is "outnumbered," i'm melissa francis. here today, harris faulkner. town hall editor and fox news contributor, katie pavlich. democratic strategist and fox news contributor jessica tarlov in joining us on the cash today of a conservative

commentator and editor in chief of campusreform.org, lawrence jones and he is "outnumbered." thank you for joining us. >> lawrence: thank you for having me today. >> harris: you know i'm going to say it, my friend from texas. >> melissa: the biggest test yet for special counsel robert mueller as we enter day one of the paul manafort trial, president terms former campaign chairman facing a 32 count indictment including charges of bank and tax fraud and legal experts say the threat of a conviction could convince mina for to cooperate with the special counsel's russia probe. it is important to note that federal prosecutors have said their focus in this trial has nothing to do with whether or not the trump campaign colluded with russia. senior counsel to the president kellyanne conway weighing in on that point earlier today. >> the judge has very strictly instructed no mention of paul manafort's role in the trump

campaign, no mention of trump, russia, or collusion. this trial obviously centers on matters that have nothing to do with the campaign. i was the campaign manager for the winning part of the campaign, i assure you i will not be brought up on federal criminal charges. and i certainly wasn't making money in ukraine are talking to anybody in moscow. >> harris: peter doocy is live outside the white house with more paid >> up on the ninth floor of this courthouse right now, paul manafort is sitting at a table with his legal team, just kind of taking it all in as a pool of about 75 potential jurors are selected for a trial expected to last at least three weeks. i was upstairs and noticed paul manafort is wearing a suit instead of a prison jumpsuit like the last time he was here but his bride to court from jail today was in the back of a nondescript gray van. he has remained in custody ever since a judge in washington, d.c., where he also faces charges accused him of trying to tamper with the

witness. the judge in this case did once back in may accused special counsel of reaching with these charges and using financial obligations to pressure paul manafort into spilling secrets i could have hurt the president. he seemed at the time to be challenging the scope of the special counsel's mission since these charges have nothing to do with alleged election interference, but he allowed the child to go on anyway. so fast-forward to today, jurors just heard that all the 18 charges against paul manafort are financial including allegations of filing false tax returns, bank fraud, and conspiracy to commit tax fraud. they allege that minna fort never the irs about $60 million he was paid that were backed by russia for lobbying work and consulting that he did long before he was ever associated with the trump campaign. manafort was initially brought on board with the trump team because he had experience with a contested convention and there was a possibility of that happening in cleveland in 2016, he never did but he later served

as a campaign chairman for three months. and the president has said recently that he feels badly for manafort because he really only was there for a couple of months but wound up having years upon years of his financial records for unrelated work that he did unrelated transactions brought over by the special counsel which of course brought us to today. back to you. >> melissa: thank you so much for that, going to bring it to the catch. $60 million, that's a lot of dough. >> there is no doubt that if paul manafort is saying, a lot of us know that you've been involved in politics, you've heard him around washington. but two things can be right at once. he can believe that he is shady and you can also believe like judge alice that the prosecution that the special counsel is trying to put pressure on manafort to get some type of evidence against the president and that's the part that concerns me. i i don't think that's the way r judicial system, our criminal system should operate.

if he was of the president's campaign manager, in likelihood, he wouldn't be facing these charges. >> melissa: it if he didn't break the law. that came first. right, potentially? >> jessica: lawrence is absolutely correct, goes beyond in the washington scene where you know that paul manafort has had unsavory dealings for many decades. certainly flies in the face of the president that he only hires the best people only for a few days or a couple of months here in this case. >> melissa: how would you know if it's beyond washington? >> jessica: you can google it. if you're doing any normal background check and you google paul manafort, a lot of things come up about his dealings in that part of the world, this is something i would say the most obvious mistake that they made. >> lawrence: was brought on because i thought it was going to be a broken kind of a stomach convention. has a lot of specialties. one broken convention. >> harris: the point of heard others make it as an interesting

point is in the throes of a campaign, as is what happens when everybody doesn't get that? and it's tough because you had someone who was nontraditionally politician, right? and that's what people love about donald trump and loved about him as a candidate. so i don't think we should be too shocked with regard to the vetting that didn't happen and a lot of what is out there about paul manafort was not clandestine. but it is part of that process. >> lawrence: didn't take much vetting to know that paul manafort. >> harris: and you have to vet and know that there would be adjudication. it was more than just that. >> katie: the bottom line is what's happening to paul manafort has nothing to do with the 2,016 presidential election at all aside from the fact that he was the chairman of the trump campaign the way he is being charged with, what jurors are hearing about him has nothing to do with racial collusion, it has everything to do with paul manafort's business dealings and

let's not forget, this is been going back decades. if that is not something that is new. if the fed's been looking a paul manafort long time. he would have been facing the music at some point, just so happens the special counsel got their hands on a lot of the information, charged him with a series of felonies and put the nails in the coffin for him. he could have been facing these charges eventually based on the fact that they've been looking at him going back to 2006 at least. >> harris: who has the president's back? that's my question. you see this constellation of players around and just because talking about it now, people who he's hired and you go why did you hire that person? why did you hire this person? >> katie: is and he in charge of hiring people? >> harris: he's in the throes of the campaign, now he has a team to look out for him and i just asked that question as we see the situation with michael cohen. come on. shady dude, come on. >> melissa: let me be the devil's advocate here because you're looking at now to shady

people that were around for a long time at least, but that's too that we are talking about here and it is logical to question that this is somebody who took money from russia in the past and tried to hide where that money comes from, it's an entry into a campaign for the russians, that's the connection or trying to make. but you have to pursue. >> katie: so they probably knew about this. they probably know about paul manafort, but they believe that the convention was so important, which it was the need to bring the guy at the last minute to make sure they got the vote. it's another paying the price for that and in some way politically and on the p.r. level but in terms of legal implications for this, that has nothing to do. >> harris: demonstration could have one without metaphor? >> lawrence: during that time, there is by collating about a broken convention and that's why they used him. i want to bring it back to the

fact of them potentially using this to go after the president. that's what i don't like. i'm not saying this guy is an shady. but that's wrong. that system wasn't designed where you leverage to go after when you have no evidence of collusion with the president's, you didn't try to put pressure on this guy for a crime. >> katie: my question on that is, yes, that that way the system works but in order for paul manafort to be used against the president, there would have to be there. and at this point, we haven't seen every evidence that there's any crime for any member of the trump administration or campaign in terms of collusion with the russians. >> jessica: and other a lot of people who say we want is to speed up, we want to know what he has and we want to come to a collusion because it's ripping up the country, although every other investment patient before had destroying the country. paul manafort's lawyer was clear today that he would not be cooperating. we will see how the next three

weeks ago, things can change especially when you are facing charges of this level. i don't think michael cohen came into any of this saying that he might be someone who flipped and now with each day in every new piece that landed. >> harris: he has recordings if he wanted to. >> jessica: i don't think we can say that definitively. the president is on twitter today playing a word game about what collusion is in conspiracy. >> katie: what has been named down with a special counsel has charge people with so at the moment, we have no charges for any trump administration officials that have to do with collusion with the russians. >> jessica: we also don't have all the information. >> harris: this is the first that we have seen the necessity with the taxes, so on and so forth. this is an initially supposed to be about any of that russian collusion investigation anyway there's more to come. >> jessica: we got rick gates who now according to michael cohen was present when

don jr. was talking about it. rick gates is going to be key here. worked with paul manafort for a very long time. so there's a lot more that we don't, that may be fine but i don't know if he just worked with him on the stuff and he was in the room when don jr. was saying i got an email from a kremlin lawyer. >> lawrence: i think that's speculation and americans are getting tired of it. >> harris: president trump is warning lawmakers again that he is willing to shut down the government if lawmakers want step up for funding with the wall and border security so will it shutdown happen and how the fight affect the midterms? plus controversy across the country as some mayors are siding with apologize protesters over law enforcement. whether that is a good move or if they will face backlash, we debate. high protein

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>> harris: a fox news alert, president trump is doubling down on his threat of a government shutdown of congress refuses to fund a wall system along our nation's southern borders. the president and a news conference with the italian prime minister yesterday echoes his tweet from sunday that he would be willing to go ahead with the shutdown of democrats will not vote for additional

border security funding. here it is. >> if we don't get border security after many, many years of talk within the united states, i would have no problem doing the shutdown. it's time we had proper border security. we had the laughingstock of the world, we have the worst immigration laws anywhere in the world. >> harris: the government funding deadline comes just weeks before the midterm elections as you know in senate majority leader mitch mcconnell has dismissed talk of a government shutdown saying that there are no plans to go down that road. chairman of the senate committee on appropriation of richard shelby said that republicans and democrats are working together on a solution. >> we ought to protect our borders, we have to do everything in the world and in the meantime, i'm going to work in a bipartisan way. we've made more progress in the last several weeks and we have

in a couple dozen years. none of us want to shut down the government. democrats, no one wins. >> harris: we are going to have an opera moment together. did you see the president just get the democrats and republicans to work together? >> lawrence: i'm not sure they're going to work together. i don't think so. nothing is going to happen. so i'm with the president, shut down the government. i'm totally for it. we're going to get blamed regardless. seriously, we're going to get blamed whether the government gets shut down or not. >> harris: it didn't go well for chuck schumer to do that for the democrats over immigration and the daca program. >> lawrence: this president when an election on this issue of immigration, he talked about this. so i think the democrats have gone so far left when it comes to talking about defunding ice, getting rid of ice, this is an issue that the president can actually win, he doesn't.

>> harris: have to ask why it hasn't happened until now. why is and he? what has and gun forward? they do this is a government that has satisfied sitting around doing nothing and they have really grown to this position where it feels comfortable to sit on the couch and not do anything and you have to give them an exploding deadline and if you think the government stinks my shutting it down doesn't sound like a bad idea. so trump is not going to lose any popularity points by shutting down the government. both the republicans in the democrats who are in a swamp together will both lose support and cachet by doing this so he has really put them in a corner. it will hurt all of you and not me. >> harris: is there any room for optimism? lawrence doesn't think they will work together. >> lawrence: once you shut it down, then the work together. >> katie: the house has been working on legislation now obviously back to the senate which is where they usually have the problems, but the president is frustrated just like the

american people have been after decades and decades of crisis after crisis including the most current one, being completely ignored. you talk about them getting comfortable in d.c., we talk about the swamp becoming the jacuzzi, the hot tub, sitting around, hanging out. doing nothing. so the bottom line is, the president did run on us to get elected in 2016. it is a base issue but also an independent issue and leading up until now, we had this immediate crisis happening right now, i was listening to it senate judiciary committee on the board of crisis happening today and congress has no solutions to fix it and just want to continue down the road with the same resolutions. >> harris: grow quickly before we get to jessica, "the wall street journal"'s entire editorial board, here's what they have to say. they lose the house of representatives is november? if that seems like an odd question, consider that mr. trump is running a campaign strategy that puts the house at maximum risk while focusing on the senate.

the latest evidence is in their words, mr. trump threat to shut down the government in september if he doesn't get money for his border wall. again, "the wall street journal" editorial board just this week. jessica, what is the take on this from democrats? to they come to the table and you begin to see that moment where they work with republicans on this issue if the government shuts down? >> jessica: i feel democrats feel like they have worked with republicans on this issue since they offered president trump border wall funding. no one will keep the government shut down but lawrence is completely correct with what he led with. republicans are going to get the blame no matter what and that's just the way that shutdowns have gone at least in the last five to six years. the schumer shut down i don't think besides people who know that phrase, i don't think everyone remembers that, it was 13 hours. right now, we are talking about. >> harris: held it against nancy pelosi when they saw her on the lectern. it's funny how we forget that.

>> jessica: it was senator schumer's fall, member of that as they go to the polls but at the end of the day, you are daca and right now talking about separating children from their families, talk about the detention centers and we know that not all of those, and that issue is much more important and it affects more people personally and emotionally then the daca issue did say you had more republicans up in arms about their kids. >> lawrence: because if we have an honest conversation about this, a lot of democrats want open borders, they really do. and that is what is going to fail miserably with americans, they know that because now your leader has said that ocasio-cortez is a new phase of the democratic party and that's what they want, they want to shut down ice. we will talk about later and they want open borders and that's not a winning issue with american people. >> jessica: it is in anton perez talking about her victory in which a representative in which you can do for the party does not make for the new phase of the party.

that doesn't work, they're only 42 reading a nationwide, the idea that our platform will be open borders and abolish ice is patently ridiculous. and that's not what's going on here. >> harris: you just call it the way you see it. she doesn't represent and what your policies are. as a minority of it hijacks your party? >> jessica: is not going to come a lot of people would argue that how he pushed the platform to the left. he certainly does have a lot of followers. >> harris: the burning sands were flying in the wind. >> katie: that is not a minority policy within the democratic party. >> jessica: where that anywhere in our platform? >> katie: you guys to vote against catch and release policies, against border funding, of course your open borders policies extend. >> jessica: didn't they propose 40 when billions for

don't we have democrats all over the country saying that we get effects for dhaka and can deal with these kids have been separated for their kids and give you the money that you are asking for? am i hallucinating all of that? >> harris: of course, he is in california so they're touching on these issues. he told me yesterday, he thinks there is only four with all of this. he acknowledges that the wall was there in 2006, so they can do that again. some of these other issues are the ones where he thinks they can come in the middle. it'll be interesting. the president may be right, he may have to shut down the government just to bring people together and from what i'm hearing you say, what if they don't sit down? >> lawrence: the president is involved on the issue, it's a portable system now. he's not going to get a big fancy wall. >> harris: that does affect people but it's got to go on for a while before shut down does so hopefully everybody will come to the table. anything? >> melissa: i agree 100%. i got nothing. a big announcement from president trump, the commander in chief has revealed that he is

open to meeting with the leaders of iran without preconditions. is he sending the right message? is that what he meant? we will dig in deeper next. >> the president wants to meet to solve problems. we are demanding a change in the behavior of the regime.

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>> katie: reaction pouring in after president trump says he is open with meeting with the leaders of iran. here is the president. >> i would certainly meet with iran if they wanted to me. i don't know if they're ready yet, having a hard time right now. but i ended the iran deal, it was a ridiculous deal. i do believe they will probably end up wanting to meet, it's good for the country, good for them, good for us and good for the world. no preconditions. if they want to meet, i'll meet. >> katie: secretary of state mike pompeo saying he supports the president's openness but saying certain conditions we need to be met before hand.

>> they demonstrated a commitment to make fundamental changes in how they treat their own people, reduce that behavior, agree that it's worthwhile to enter a nuclear agreement that actually prevents proliferation and the president said he is prepared to sit down and have a conversation with them. >> katie: not everyone is on the same page, democratic senator fleming the president on the issue. >> the president when he conducts foreign policy i find is very concerning. i want to communicate with other leaders around the world that should be under the right terms and properly prepared, we saw what happened in helsinki with president putin, seems counterproductive. >> katie: iran already shooting down the president's offer, saying america and these policies, they will definitely not be the possibility of dialogue and engagement. the united states has shown that this is totally unreliable.

so where do we go from here? >> lawrence: it's crazy because i'm so sick of the outrage every time the president says and i understand he is the president but he says a lot of things. and is he soft or is he strong? the president actions matter. we saw the rebuttal from spokesperson saying the president and his policy, they wouldn't want him, but i like that the president likes to meet with foreign leaders. i like that the president likes to have dialogue, i'm so sick of senators like lindsey graham that are so ready to go to war at the drop of a dime always, i'm so glad that we finally got a president that is willing to talk things out, still be a strong leader, the strongest military we've ever had before and he's ready to react if necessary, but he want to to have the communication. >> melissa: what a lot of people don't understand is that is the approach in business and in a lot of life. i understand different politics,

but he was elected because he is not a politician. when you have a difference with someone, when you have a disagreement or something you have to work out, when there is any issue on the table, step one, set the meeting. step one. and even getting to the point now where people coming up in business are reinforcing the idea, you cannot email, you cannot text, you need to go see someone and talk face-to-face. and that's what it's all about. >> katie: the big question though is president obama was secretly allegedly communicating with iranian officials not meeting with them face-to-face in the idea that he would ever meet with them was a huge no-go and he received a lot of valid criticism for that and now here we are with president trump saying no preconditions. based on what the standard was. they are chanting death to america, they burning our flags. my point is, if republicans are willing to criticize president obama for doing the exact same thing, why are they now praising president trump. >> jessica: not all of them are and i totally agree with

you, there's a lot of hypocrisy that goes on on both sides hear about what you're president and what my president did and i think. >> katie: there all our president. barack obama was just the president of the country. >> jessica: there plenty of people on both sides who don't feel kindred spirit that they are being they're presented well by this president. i just meant a republican president and a democrat president. that point certainly stands here. i think mike pompeo as he usually does did a good job of cleaning up with the president was saying am i saying there are going to be preconditions in their absolute should be if you're going to grant someone like that a meeting. but i find really interesting is to see the different responses to going to meet with rouhani and president putin, both of whom are dictators, both of whom carry out acts of terror. in other people. it seems like there actually might be more comfort even with rouhani because people don't feel like he's going to be manipulated as easily with putin who is more of the kgb soviet

style five. >> lawrence: i don't understand that, why do people feel like the president has been manipulating? state when i saw him in helsink helsinki. >> lawrence: criticized him for that but i don't think it was a manipulation. he was two different issues that were being linked together. >> katie: to your point, pick a side, stronger week, we have this as a result of the president putting forth certain standards, we haven't seen the iranians harassing their ships as they used to under barack obama. >> harris: i still want to kill us all. that part of the equation has not stopped. to them to get back to what melissa just said because it was really marinating on this like chicken. it such an interesting point. the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and over, 25 years of diplomacy with north korea that was sketchy and got us to the point where he finally took somebody

with stronger language to get us someplace else. so is that where we are with iran and do you convince iran that you mean business by first pulling out the deal and telling all of western europe you can party with them if you want, we are not going to. and by the way, how was i going to feel for everybody and do maybe want to punish people who continue to do deals with iran? we can make it really difficult and be different to yield potentially a different outcome. is it worth a try? >> katie: we will see, doing things differently. president trump making good on his promise to stop a republican candidate and seeming to relish his growing power as as a parts tea maker. the president's impact of the midterms as he is at the rally with a candidate for florida's governor. >> i think the president supported these other states in these key senate races like missouri, north dakota, montana. i think it's going to be critical in bringing more republicans to the u.s. senate starting in 2019. gas, bloating, constipation, and diarrhea

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saving you time for what you love most. >> kids: whoa! >> kids vo: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ >> harris: breaking news now, and answer back to some of the stories that have been floating around in unsubstantiated talk about whether the man you see there on the left, chief of staff to the president of the united states general john kelly was leaving as chief of staff and sources are telling fox news that president trump has asked john kelly to stay on in that position, to lead his staff through 2020. so this again answering back to that criticism or speculation or whatever it was that john kelly might be leaving. there have been many stat changes at the white house. in the short time that the president has been leading our nation. so when something like that catches fire, you see now a pushback with the facts on the

ground and that is that the president has asked his chief of staff to stay. as a position by the way that people don't generally hold for many years. it's tough. that communications director, press secretary, those positions, we do see some rotation in. but the president now wanting to make a firm stand on his support for general john kelly. and he tweeted this yesterday, by the way. "congratulations to general john kelly. today, we celebrate his first full year as white house chief of staff. that was yesterday, you can to the time-stamp about 19 hours ago. but making it official and breaking news in this hour of "outnumbered," chief of staff john kelly asked to stay on, give us two more the president said. melissa? >> melissa: president trump making good on his promise to campaign heavily for republican candidates as he is proving to be a tea maker and a stream of recent g.o.p. primary, the president heading to florida where he will hold a rally in tampa for gubernatorial

candidate congressman ron desantis tonight with another rally except for pennsylvania leaders this week. catapulting over his more moderate primary challenger in the poll after wholeheartedly embracing the president's agenda and winning the president's coveted endorsement. the president is morning tweeting will be in tampa tonight, a big year for him, he will be a great governor for florida. strong on crime, borders and our second amendment. big help on tax and regulation cuts, loves our military and our vets, has my full and total endorsement. meanwhile, the congressman emphasizing his loyalty to the president and a new tongue-in-cheek add narrated by his wife casey. >> ron loves playing with the kids. >> build the wall. >> he read stories. >> then mr. trump said you're fired. i love that part. >> he's teaching madison to talk. >> make america great again. >> melissa: what do you think?

>> harris: is interesting. i happen to love campaign ads, i'm kind of a geek and i like the ones with family. this is going to be an interesting ground in florida. >> lawrence: i think it's interesting because i used to be a democrat. i supported obama and i was a young democrat. >> jessica: felt good, didn't it? >> harris: generally don't make change unless you want to. >> lawrence: one thing i noticed when i was still campaigning for other candidates after we had gotten president obama elected was he didn't go back and really support other candidates. and jessica, i don't know if you know this, but it was notorious for not having relationships on the hill even with members of his own party. it seems like that's a little different for president trump. he will go down there if you put your name on the line for him, he will award you by campaigning for you. and what we have seen in the past elections is that it does move the meeting. so it's important.

>> jessica: i do think the endorsement is important especially for someone like ron desantis who has gone full hog. he said he didn't like the farming subsidy but otherwise, i don't think he's ever stepped out of line with the president no matter what has gone on. the endorsement does matter in certain districts, but we have seen with all the primaries that have gone on so far in the special elections at all of these races are very local. in the president's endorsement like in pennsylvania for instance did make any difference against connor lam, a moderate grade it was, but the president hasn't gotten actually looking at his ratings haven't gotten any more popular. generally speaking, i think he needs to be careful about this. he also made a statement a few days ago ray said he is going to be out of the campaign trail six days a week or something like that. he has work to do and i think that's what president obama was doing. he can't have a rally at 3:00 in the morning, maybe he'll start that. but he does have things to do like fixing a relationship with

north korea and iran. >> melissa: he seemed to get it all done and reporters are falling to the wayside, but he seems to have more energy than anybody. >> katie: i think this raises interesting for a couple reasons, the first is that adam putnam has been endorsed by pam bondi and in her add, she talks about how he will back president trump's agenda but sees them as a more local candidate. and i listen to the first debate between them, and to be honest, a lot of the questions seemed like but men had better answers in terms of local needs and local control because he was referred back to president trum president trump, washington, his experience in d.c. which is all fine and good but when we are talking about a governors race when it's kind of a separate issue than going to the house of representatives or the senate and endorsing and voting for the president's agenda, you're actually focused more on localized issues and he seemed to have the upper hand in that debate.

>> harris: what i'm fascinated by because you had all the beautiful little ones in the video, build the wall and so-and-so forth, if candidates interpret the support, they may be thinking that the reciprocal of that should be making it look like i'm totally behind the president. you can walk out your own policy. you can be an individual might you can answer back to the things that are playing on the ground. real quickly because i just want to scoot this end, we just reported that john kelly had been asked by the president to stay until 2020 and now we from john roberts, our leader chief correspondent said just to close the loop on this it's breaking, kelly has now accepted the position, he said he will stay through 2020 as chief of staff of the united states. so there you go. try to get it all in there. space it not forget when he came and did a pretty good job of disciplining the white house, a couple weeks plug so he's done a good job and the president is rewarding him.

>> melissa: b have some breaking news for you now, facebook is reportedly set to announce that it has found new and sophisticated attempts to influence upcoming u.s. elections on its platform. it has removed dozens of accounts, they are still investigating the essay. the social media giant scheduling at conference call at the top of the hour. this is all according to "the new york times." we will bring you more just as soon as we get it.

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>> melissa: we have a fox news alert for a story that is breaking right now from facebook, and they are going to be having conference calls at the top of the hour and we are getting a few details ahead of time to let you know what's going on. facebook has announced it has identified a coordinated political influence campaign with dozens of inauthentic accounts and pages that are believed to be engaging in political activities ahead of the november election. here's a quote. "we are still on the very early stages of our investigation. we don't have all the facts, including who may be behind this." we are sharing what we know today given the connections between these bad actors and

protests that are planned in washington for next week. they said they've discovered the accounts eight facebook pages, 17 profiles and seven instagram accounts they found them two weeks ago and the company has been working with the fbi to investigate the activity similar to the russian interference campaign. but we don't know yet who is behind this and they are going to be providing more information here bring up a point talking about the break that twitter recently rated >> harris: a talk about the timing of this because it has been now couple of weeks that twitter put out information that it would be clearing out the eggheads in the accounts that we really can't look at and you have one follower but it looks like a bought and what is this and what is that? and in fact, they did such a sweep that it caused the president to lose hundreds of thousands of would-be followers, former president barack obama lost hundreds of thousands as well, people that were following with whatever intent putting out fake information, whatever it

is. anybody can be privy to this. this didn't come as a same type of language but maybe it was there, i don't know. but facebook then looked at the situation i would imagine and maybe they did it then, but 32 pages seem small. compared to what it potentially could be maybe this is just the tip of the iceberg. what a week facebook is having. >> melissa: is a little bit apples and oranges in the sense that one our bots and are potentially fake people and this is sounding like they're talking about a chlorinated campaign that's meant to influence, they haven't identified exactly who is behind it but it sounds like it is more sophisticated and nefarious. >> katie: i am skeptical of what they are claiming to make sure that the russian meddling in propaganda won't be used in the next election, i think they have to be extra transparent about the way they're going about this considering a lot of conservatives sites and people have been censored and taken off

facebook and then they all of a sudden say that it was a mistake and i didn't mean to do it, so they really are helping the country by making russian bots off the internet for russian agents, i think they have an obligation to the public considering they are such a big entity to be very transparent about how they found these people, what is the criteria for being taken off and were there any warnings issued and how did it look for yourself when facebook says something to report some kind of russian involvement. >> harris: it could happen to anybody. >> lawrence: also think that i like that they're doing all these reports but this also is a responsibility of the voter to vet the information that they receive on social media because it's just not from a political standpoint, a lot of fake stuff going on on social media. it's buying things, all type of stuff on social media and you have to do your due diligence. i think it's kind of pump this up a little bit much more than we should be, not saying there's not an effort to destroy our

democracy, i believe it, i know it's happening but from the social media standpoint. >> melissa: does it change your mind when you think about the two top people at facebook have very definite political ambitions of their own? the fact that the people that control this entity itself both have expressed their desire to enter politics very seriously in the future. >> harris: it suggests a blind spot when it comes to this. do we expect that to be investigated more to make sure that there is fairness? we know about the facebook algorithm. if you and i have talked about that on the couch. choosing certain types of stories and why? >> jessica: i think there may be a political blind spot but more importantly, there was a money blind spot that i don't think that if the american public and the government hadn't come after facebook as strongly as they did in the face of the russian meddling in the 2016 election, and not altogether sure they would have addressed their algorithms or they

would've change their sales patterns because everything was going fine. when you look at what mark zuckerberg was saying about alex jones how we can a half ago and under pressure, alex jones then got suspended for 30 days. the transparency is key here so that we know exactly what the criteria is but to your point and you are a libertarian so it makes sense that you are saying this is on us, that we have to be in charge of what we are consuming and be disturbing dit a lot of this is sophisticated that if you are paying attention, you are not going to know that this is a bot account for. >> harris: went at something just about the bottom line of this company because 36 pages is different than the followers on twitter, but it all kind of comes back to that idea of trust and whether or not people feel like they can trust these companies with information. >> melissa: that is a great point to make because facebook stock has been under pressure and facing a shareholder lawsuit

because it's been down so much as a result of people leaving because they haven't had trust anymore. so there you go. so we will have more "outnumbered" and just a moment. feel the clarity of non-drowsy

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no mathere are over 10,000 allstate agents riding sweep. call one today. are you in good hands? >> melissa: thank you to lawrence jones, we covered a lot of ground today. good barbecue in new york city. >> lawrence: , not yet, i am working on it. >> melissa: maybe we should

work on it right now. we will report back to everyone else, sounds like a good one. thank you so much for joining us, thank you for joining us, we are back here at noon eastern tomorrow, and now here is harri harris. >> harris: fox news alert, the president's big departure when it comes to iran, let's go "outnumbered overtime," i am harris faulkner. president trump taken many by surprise when he told reporters that he is willing to meet with the rands leaders with no strings attached, and a sharp break from the regime last week, counselor to the president kellyanne conway says that the president is always open to speaking with our adversaries. if it means a safer america. watch. >> let me be very clear, he is open to conversation and negotiation. he has done that with mr. putin, and he has also said, if it is not a good deal for the united states and our interest and our workers and our security, he will walk away.