>> sandra: all right. that's it for us. >> eric: all for now. >> sandra: thank you for being here today. >> eric: be back tomorrow. >> sandra: that is good stuff. that's it for us. "outnumbered" starts now. >> harris: we begin with a fox news alert. president trump is taking on former c.i.a. director john brennan. amid new fall-out over the president revoking brennan's security clearance. and now a new report, the white house may go farther. reportedly drafting more security clearance cancellations for other current and former intelligence and justice department officials. it is on. this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today melissa francis, town hall editor and the fox news contributor katie pavlich. host of "kennedy" on the fox business network, kennedy montgomery. in the center seat today, charles payne the host of "making money" with charles payne. making sense also. he is "outnumbered." good to see you. >> charles: good to see you. thank you. >> harris: cuff links today?

>> charles: these are from a russian artists, the beetles submerged. >> harris: in amber. they just got stuck there. put them on your wrist. >> katie: there is collusion. right there. >> harris: okay. happy monday! the president is responding after john brennan went after him over the weekend, over the security clearance issue. mr. brennan saying the move is meant to scare other critics of the president into silence. now brennan says he is considering legal action. >> i think it was a clear signal to others who still have security clearances both in the government as well as outside that if you cross him, if you speak out against him, he is going to use whatever tools he might have at his disposal to punish you. >> i have been contacted by a number of lawyers. they have already given me their thoughts about the basis for a complaint, injunction. to try to prevent him to do this in the future. >> harris: a short time ago, president trump tweeted this.

"i hope john brennan, the worst c.i.a. director in the country's history brings a lawsuit. i will then be very easy to get all of his records, texts, e-mails and documents to show not only the poor job he did but how he was involved with the mueller rigged witch hunt. he won't sue." yesterday, two former obama administration officials weighed in on all of this saying they do not agree with the president pulling brennan's security clearance. but they also say brennan is being too political. watch it. >> i worry that what he is saying now puts him in a much more politicized position. that said, i do worry about the fact that one, that john is now in the political arena and, two, at the same time i don't agree with the president pulling it. >> i think, you know, john is sort of like a freight train. he will say what is on his mind. john and his rhetoric had become i think an issue in and

of itself. >> harris: meanwhile, white house national security adviser usain bolt -- security adviser bolten is saying that brennan misused the classified information. >> for senior career officials and those that come out of the government, to keep the wall of the separation between intelligence and policy. i don't think that brennan followed that. whether he used classified information, i think people will be able to determine. >> harris: when you hear democrats and otherwise neutral people coming out and saying this john brennan, c.i.a. director, political, what do you make of it? >> charles: there are so many folks who are decidedly anti-trump on this particular case say he probably, this is the right thing to do. this is pretty obvious and it's so ironic that brennan after losing the security clearance is on tv. every channel and every station saying how people are intimidated to silence.

it didn't work for him, right? c'mon, my man. if he did it from a bunker somewhere and he wrote a note and said listen, i'm afraid for my life. he is on every network out there beyond the one he is already contracted with, talking about being intimidated. that this is somehow a sledgehammer but he is still complaining about it. no one took away his voice. >> they gave him a bigger one. >> charles: yeah. >> harris: the president is even saying through his response to this, probably his elevated john brennan profile beyond what he might have imagined. >> katie: over the weekend we heard a lot from the officials we played the sound from. but the big question there is an argument to be made that the former head of agency should keep the security clearances to help the incoming administration. but you don't see john brennan saying i need my security clearance so if the members of the c.i.a. now, if haskell kneads my help, i can come in and give her the help. this is all about john brennan

who feels like he no longer has access to the political information inside the c.i.a. that shouldn't be political at all. he is trying to make it about free speech but this is about privilege. and there is a question of whether it should be reformed and how long they keep clearance after leaving the position. >> harris: john brennan c.i.a. came under fire for snooping. remember that? on the computers used by the senate staffers to help compile torture report. >> kennedy: and first denied it and had to come clean about it. >> harris: by "denied" you mean lied. >> kennedy: yes. >> harris: and one of the democrats was calling for the resignation of the man whose security clearance taken away. this is democrats calling for the resignation because of what he did.

>> now there are other member of the intelligence community you saw over the weekend raising incredible protest against john brennan and some of the claims he continues to make. i think bolton has to be careful. if bolton is saying that brennan reached in the intelligence cookie jar and pulled out actionable information about collusion, bolton is the national security adviser saying that there is something there to reach in to. so he has to be careful about that, because the president is vociferous denying there is any collusion at all whatsoever. i don't think it is a tree he wants to bark up. but you are right. brennan is not at risk of losing his ability to speak freely. >> harris: no, he is still speaking. >> kennedy: i wonder why he is protesting. again he is not, this is not someone talking about defending the importance of the intelligence community existing years and years past the term. he just wants this power for himself. why? it's as though the conspiracy theories are no longer

theories. they actuality. >> harris: i want to get into what the president is saying. because he is right about the fact. then you have the access to everything that he has had his hands on in terms of the e-mails, text messages. i don't know if a man who has a history of the democrats calling for the resignation might want that. >> melissa: i don't know why he would. but when he talks about using his voice, he used the voice to lie a lot. you just touched on one. i mean -- >> harris: right. >> melissa: he openly denied he had gone in and hacked senate intelligence computers and he later admitted that that was a lie. and he apologized. he lied about drone strikes killing civilians, saying they hadn't taken out a single civilian. he briefed president obama to the opposite and he appears to have lied when he said he had no idea who paid the dossier. he either is lying about that or he was horrible at his job because that was his group of people. if they are paying for things

and lying to him about it, he has no control over his group. he says they didn't depend on the dossier for anything important. that is either, you know, a lie or he was again a horrible director. i think all he is doing is highlighting what a liar he is. >> harris: what about the flipping the switch, charles? we have seen the president do this. this can be effective. if, in fact, everything you had the laid to bear, what melissa talked about if he lied to a former president, how much can they bring in evidence? could you talk about deposing people that -- i know we are going down an if road but he opened the door on this saying i'm going to sue. both sides get discovery, i believe? >> melissa: yes, they do. >> charles: we'll see how far it goes. everybody as the words tripping off his lips he didn't see serious about it to be trank with it. i don't believe he thinks it is going anywhere but he is grasping for straws. you go back and anyone can google this. look at the "washington post" wrote on-eds about maybe obama should fire him. i mean, he is a bad actor.

something a lot of folks aren't talking about when you see other people come to his aid. how much is a security clearance worth in a private sector? if you go to a defense con track or on the resume, opposed to not being on "it"'s worth money. >> he is also not talking a about the national security. they have to be cautious to look at brennan. he is trying to be a blow-hard and out blow-hard the president. right thousand he is cratering. it's not working for him. so whoever will run for president on 2020 on the democratic side have to be mindful not to fall into this trap. >> harris: that is interesting. case the bigger issue, too, we have seen number of federal institutions get highly politicized around there have been consequences for that in terms of the american people not having confidence in the agency that are supposed to be serving them. the c.i.a. is no exception. john brennan as his colleague said over the weekend, politicized this issue, has been extremely and overtly political. more than any other previous

c.i.a. director. the bottom line is the intelligence community is not supposed to be political. he is making it political by not only saying the things about treason toward the president but also encouraging as he did in the interview with nbc over the weekend that people working for him like chief of staff john kelly and saying at some point you need to question who you are working for. that is the real problem. he is politicizing a group of people that are not supposed to be political. in a time when the institutions -- >> harris: that word "treason" got him in trouble. he tried to walk it back. >> kennedy: what the punishment for treason. >> harris: he said, "approaching treason." like at the exit or approaching the exit. you are still going to get off? i don't know. who knows? >> melissa: fox news alert. we are on verdict watch in the paul manafort trial. in alexandria, virginia, and the jury is back for a third day. they are poring over the 18-count indictment. federal prosecutors say manafort failed to pay taxes on millions of dollars in

hidden foreign income and he lied on loan applications to obtain millions more to obtain a lavish lifestyle. the criminal trial is the first courtroom test of the russia probe led by the special counsel robert mueller. the case does not involve allegation of russian election interference. peter doocy has more from outside the courthouse in alexandria. peter? >> reporter: the safety of the jury was top of mind for judge ellis who reiterated even at the end of the trial, "the name of the jurors will remain under seal." that is because judge ellis believes jurors would be subjected to threats and he has already been threatened because of his role presiding over the case. the reason that the issue bubbled up to the surface a handful of news outlets, cnn the a.p. and "new york times" filed a motion asking for everything from the trial that is sealed to be unsealed. including those names. but it's not happening. there have been a pair of the bench conferences so far today

with the members of the mueller team and the manafort defense team. a member close to the defense told me today three deliberations days after the jury didn't come back with a quick guilty verdict, they are starting to feel that the proceedings are taking on a feel of the final days of the 2016 election where many pundits thought it would be an early night with a certain result and later wound up being surprised. manafort sits for most of the day in solitaire confinement here without a tv or even a magazine just in case a verdict is announced. the manafort side has been consistent since last week. they think the longer the jury has the case the better for the client because it demonstrates to them that the jury is carefully reviewing the exhibits. don't forget, they are navigating evidence without any kind of an index to show them which of the 400 exhibits, correspond to which of the 18 charges because the mueller provided them with one. another interesting thing going on inside the courtroom

today, the jurors who have been sitting for most of the proceedings in the same exact seats every day came in this morning and they sat in different seats which is very unusual. nobody knows what it means. but since we only see them for a couple of minutes a day, that is what people are talking about here outside of court. >> melissa: well, it is interesting if they have been in the same seat every day and they switch it up. i don't know. >> harris: we should do it on "outnumbered". >> melissa: why not? we will. thank you for the suggestion. peter doocy. we will bring you if anything comes in the courtroom, if we get a verdict or there is any movement we'll bring you the news as soon as it happens. in the meantime, far left democratic congressional candidate alexandria ocasio-cortez facing a new controversy after she been ad the media from her recent town hal event. why she said she did it. we'll debate it. plus, new reaction and another media battle after we learn that robert mueller's team interviewed white house

counsel don mcgahn. what the president is saying and the potential impact of all of this. >> don mcgahn was saying from the begivenning do you want to -- beginning, do you want to fire mueller? i won't participate. i'm out of here. mcgahn was giving advice to the president from the begivenning. alright, i brought in new max protein ...to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. i'll take that. [cheers] 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. new ensure max protein. in two great flavors. so you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes. start them off right, with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long. like these for only $2 or less at office depot officemax.

like these for only this wi-fi is fast. i know! i know! i know! i know! when did brian move back in? brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's.

>> kennedy: all right. welcome back. fox news alert. president trump lashing out at the mueller probe again amid new reaction to the revelation white house counsel don mcgahn met extensively with the special counsel's team for questioning. the president tweeting, "disgraced and discredited bob mueller and the whole group of angry democrat thugs spent over 30 hours with the white house counsel only with my approval for purposes of transparency. anybody needing that much time when they know there is no russian collusion is just someone looking for trouble." the president also slamming a "new york times" report about mcgahn's reasoning for meeting with mueller tweeting, "the failing "new york times" wrote a story that made it seem like the white house counsel had turned on the president. when in fact it is just the opposite and the two fake reporters knew this. this is why the fake news media has become the enemy of the people. so bad for america."

but the "new york times" tweeting right back -- the "new york times" stands behind the reporting of the pulitzer prize winning reporters. read the article that president trump has been tweeting about this morning. in the meantime, the reports now are that the president's legal team not sure what mcgahn told mueller's team. but the president attorney rudy giuliani says former trump lawyer john down informed him that mcgahn was an excellent witness for the president. watch. >> i think that through john dowd we had a sense of it and john dowd yesterday said, i'll use his words rather than mine that mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. so i don't need to know much more about that. >> they are getting desperate. they don't have anything. and charles, brevity is the soul of wits. spending 30 hour with the special counsel doesn't sound

like the best idea. >> it doesn't. i think what president trump said was interesting and it's interesting because the journal put out a piece. you know, the editorial board is not president trump's best friends. even on this score, they say c'mon. i mean you have to really waive the executive privilege to let it go through. that is an amazing sign. that is something you simply do not give up or give away if you feel like you are guilty. having said that i think i speak to the entire american public please make it stop. please get it over with today. see a 30 hours there. when did we find the finish line on this thing. >> katie: 30 hours with the special counsel as mcgahn did may be a way to prevent the president from having to sit down for an interview. >> melissa: you would think. case -- >> katie: you put all the people to stop momentum to get to the president. >> charles: do you think it will happen? >> katie: it might not. but they are trying to get enough information and we have given them enough information

and given them hundreds of thousands of documents. the people are talking to you. no reason to sit down with the president. that is why he was given the unlimited time frame. it feels like the president can't win. he opens up the white house counsel to an interview in the sake, for the sake of transparency as they say. >> harris: can't win in the media. case right. then they assume he is turning on the president. >> but that is something we don't know. >> harris: no one knows what anybody said for 30 hours. it is probably naive to think just because you know a person, after hour three you have probably lost what you can count on at that point. that is a lot of talking. to further what you said, this is an interesting point. the point of sitting down with the president he can get at things that you can't get at. after 30 hours with one witness you might be closer to the zone that the president isn't the only person to answer the certain questions. they have been asked and

answered by other people to take the onus off the president to sit down with mueller. they can get the information elsewhere. >> all right. >> what if in the end mueller didn't have anything. what does that do -- he doesn't care. he is at the end of his career. what does it do for the special counsel moving forward? >> melissa: i don't know. that is a great question. this does undermine the idea you need one. but having him go through this to verify nothing happen, it did serve as a purpose. i like to listen to andy mccarthy that we have had on the couch about these things because he is a former prosecutor. he doesn't seem to be terribly political one way or the other. and he talked about the idea at this point if you look at what has been the outcome and the reaction, whether it's

mueller laying off the cases to the other areas or following paul manafort which to me makes sense because manafort is someone who does have connections to russians backed by the kremlin. but his response doesn't seem to be the president has done anything. he says the president should stop tweeting because he is trash talking and antagonizing someone working on the case. he said himself he'd be mad if it were him. >> harris: two things for the transparency, if the president wants it to end and be over when it ends, it could linger when it ends, but if it is really over than he adds to legitimacy of the findings by saying look i have allowed people to go out and talk. you have to let it play out with patience.

governor christie says he gave away too much, the president. but at least when it ends it's over. charles this dovetails to what melissa said. if you discredit every day and then they come out in your favor have you discredited, you know -- >> harris: does it linger after it ends? >> charles: the bottom line is that at this point, you know, there is still talk occasionally of getting sessions to act. i feel like we have run at least half of a mare on the. to run back to -- marathon and to run back is ridiculous. >> harris: we are past the snack stand. >> charles: feels like we are on heartbreak hill. >> kennedy: well done. talk about where we are now. charles brings up a good point. if the president is exonerated, it sort of undermines the tweet. so what can happen conclusively that either makes complete sense of all the leaks and everything we have heard so far or actually exonerate the president?

i guess the point is that you say that at some point the president is hoping this ends when it ends. this could go on for longer. case this is so politically charged on both sides no matter what the outcome is. if the special counsel robert mueller clears the president and there is no collusion found the left will go crazy. they will start doing what the right has been doing to say that the investigation was never legitimate. they didn't question the right people. et cetera, et cetera. the right will try to move on. but i doubt that the democrats will let it go. the president is let go. >> harris: if we were to find out that end before the mid-term elections the democrat supporters would be apoplectic. they want you to concentrate on the economy. it doesn't help the democrats either way. >> katie: majority of the people are sick as charles said, sick of the investigation. they don't really care. >> kennedy: no one is sick of money. the republican national committee raking in a record amount of july despite the

polls showing the democrats are more enthusiastic and history saying the party in power usually loses in the mid-terms. so what can be behind the surge and the g.o.p.'s numbers? plus, the u.s. trade office holding hearings on a proposed $200 billion tariff, series of tariffs on chinese goods. whether it's getting china back to the negotiating table and what it could mean for the midterms and for you. >> president trump: china is not happy with what i'm doing on trade but we have no other choice as a country and they understand that.

for just $59... ancestrydna can open you to a world of new cultures to explore. with two times more detail than any other dna test... you can get a new taste of your heritage. only $59- our site's lowest price ever.

>> katie: the republican national committee raking in a haul this cycle leading democrats lagging behind as the november midterms approach. this is despite historic trends in recent polling seeming to favor democrats. r.n.c. raiding $14.2 million in july, the most ever for that month in a

non-presidential year. raising more in the past july than in 2010 and 2014 combined bringing the total haul for the mid-term cycle to more than $227 million. and all of this after transferring another $8 million split between the editorial committees. the r.n.c. chairwoman touting the party fundraising saying, "we have used our unprecedented grassroots support to build the biggest field program we have ever had to defend our house and senate majorities. history might be against us but we make sure every voter knows we are the party of results. all the democrats have is resistance. charles, to the money man, is it all about the money or do they need more? >> charles: they need more but you have to tip your hat to the job she has done. a lot of times you break the number down and you see the average and where it comes from and that kind of stuff. this is a recurring theme overall.

i like when you look at the d.n.c., the debt level. they usually have the zero cash on hand and millions of dollars in debt. if i'm the r.n.c. that is my ad. do you want them to run the country the way they are running the d.n.c.? this is a good hopeful thing but she was honest with respect to the uphill climb, the party out of power always faces in the mid-term elections. it will be an amazing thing to watch how powerful the trump movement is. the g.o.p. is now trump's party. most of the candidates have won. we have seen pockets of the overwhelming enthusiasm in places we didn't think we could see it. >> i give the president credit because he has put a ton of the elbow grease to go out and help the candidates raise money and help republicans raise money. there are people out there saying he loves to do that. he loves a crowd. okay. he is still spending all the time and energy to go out there and help the party.

the democrats, the individual candidates have done well. the overall numbers will tell you democrats don't trust the larger party. they are still struggle the hangover that the last election was rigged and sanders didn't get a fair shake. the d.n.c. is seeing that the democrats are enthused, they are willing to give the money to the candidates but they don't trust the party. that is a larger problem. >> kennedy: hillary taught us you can have all the money in world and it doesn't equal victory if you don't spend it in the right way. both parties, they are raising money. it's the d.n.c. versus the r.n.c. r.n.c. raising much more money but the question is how are you going to spend it? a lot of the candidates and alexandria ocasio-cortez is one of the people who have shown if you knock on doors and knock on thousands of doors and interface -- that

the work. a lot of candidates in the digital age have gotten lazy. think they can win through social media alone. that is not the case and nothing beats that but you need volunteers and the support. that is what they are looking for. >> harris: the last time i interviewed chairwoman mcdaniels she shared about the smaller share to have many give you smaller donations. something that obama for america knew well. and bernie sanders, too. i would say that it helps to have the opposite of what is criticized about the rhetoric across the country now, a look of the civility and the negativity in many cases. all over the place. >> kennedy: how much of this is impeachment, though? >> harris: i was going to say the one thing that the republicans are doing is galvanized behind a positive message. that is about the economy. if they stick to that, what contrast to everything out there that you hear on the left. they kind of go back and forth

with each other about who they are. >> katie: i want to make a quick point about the money. money is not everything as we know. but because the r.n.c. is having to defend seats that maybe they weren't planning on like in ohio as we saw recently, having a ton of extra cash on hand will be important for them. >> melissa: yeah. the u.s. trade representative offices opening a round of hearings today on the trump administration proposed $200 billion worth of tariffs on chinese products imported to the u.s. the hearings come just as china's trade delegation is due back in washington this week to resume talks after impasse earlier this summer. ahead of another round of tariffs that are scheduled to kick in on thursday. thissaz the u.s. tariffs are said to hurt china's economy. a reason that chinese may be coming back to the negotiating table. here is white house economic adviser larry kudlow at last week's cabinet meeting. >> their economy is just

heading south. retail sales, business sales collapsing. industrial production fallen and plateauing at a low level. people are selling currency. there may be manipulation but mostly investors are moving out of china. they don't like the economy and they are coming to the usa because they like our economy. >> the trump administration hearing from the u.s. businesses warning that the tariffs will force american consumers to pay more for effort items. what do you think? >> i think the tariffs are working. i think it was unfortunately the only tool left that hasn't been used. the general states craft across the left. several administrations did not work. china has these meetings and they nod their head and say we will meet again. then they continue to rip off americans. listen, i have been watching this closely and i have to make people money in this market. i am looking at something interesting here. it's not that trump's trade tariffs are creating problems

in china. it's revealing economic problems in china. those are two different things. they have serious issues. run-away debt and serious credit. the stocks where they trade peaked in 2015 and it's down 50%. this morning they want to sell us back the waldorf astoria. they are in serious trouble. we need to keep the pressure on. something i'm working on, i want to do a special. the famed support for farmers. i'm asking the american farmer don't be a political tool for they cans who don't care about you because net farm income peaked in 2013. $124 billion. the year before it was $61 billion. it was down 50% before the trump administration took over. there are serious issues here. if we use farmers as a political pawn, find out, let's find out what is hurting them. >> melissa: what is the issue? >> charles: i don't know. i want to find out.

soy bean prices and the corn prices already dropped precipitously long before trump became president. if we want to help out folks -- >> melissa: find the real problem. >> charles: do it now. >> harris: can i ask a quick question. we are off-field here but with the soy bean farmers and everyone else, the president working with the european union to buy more products to get us over the tariff hump. >> charles: it's okay. >> harris: is it helping? >> charles: there are not enough soy beans laying around to feed 1.3 billion people. so china will come back to order soy beans but there is a bigger, problematic situation than that. >> we have the best soy beans. >> charles: why is farm revenue down. if it's down why would walmart sell imported apple from china in washington state? >> kennedy: i think it's high time to stop doing that. a state run economy doesn't benefit -- >> charles: the state run economy in china is not

working. >> katie: the other thing playing in here is china's economy is built on paper. facade. for years they have been building, building, building. nobody buying hundreds of miles of the empty buildings. china developed a middle class in the country and they are still censoring them and keeping them under their fist. so once the middle class -- they are not willing to say complain now. it's good. but then they will have a social problem. >> harris: they are having heart attacks. >> melissa: we have to go. president trump launching some of the most heated attacks yet on robert mueller comparing the probe to about -- to mccarthy-era tactics. whether he has a point or if it's going to far. we'll debate.

>> harris: president trump busy on the twitter machine unloading on robert mueller in a series of tweets to compare the special counsel russia investigation to senator

joseph mccarthy infamous hunt in the 1950s for communists in the government. the president said in one tweet, "study the late joseph mccarthy because we're now in a period with mueller and his gang that make joseph mccarthy look like a baby. rigged witch hunt." and michael hayden called the comparison absurd. >> joe mccarthy was a demagogue. we haven't heard a public syllable from robert mueller in more than a year. >> harris: that is true. we have not heard from him. what do you make of it? >> charles: we have not heard from him but we have heard about the investigation and people complain about the leaks. at this point for me -- i haven't study mccarthy enough to be an expert but it seems like a bridge too far. earlier in the show we brought up the topic of the special counsel going forward. do you put guardrails on them or do you throw them out and they bomb the blob -- become the blob? unstoppable to go where they

want to go. this is what i'm concerned about. if he has nothing or he is not close to getting something how long does he keep it going? how long does he push? he understands even the silence can be politicized and we head to midterm elections it can be an issue. >> harris: it can be politicized but not misquoted. >> i don't know. >> harris: you can't. so just looking back and we have been talking about the future of the special counsels do you think there was this much concern over the kenneth starr in the day? >> kennedy: absolutely! >> harris: it didn't change what happened going forward. >> kennedy: the name changed. >> harris: but are we still? a situation where it does become the blob? >> kennedy: i do. this is a different time and we have so politicized and divided that the other side will look at this to say we don't want it to happen to us. both sides would be wise to put the parameters on this

thing. the scope of the investigation and the length of the time and the money. it can be endless. in the end are we going to get some big bombshell? is there a great revelation that is going to shake the mt.sy to the foundation and the country as well? >> harris: the blob. >> melissa: i think the president's tweets have gone too far and maybe he should lay off then subject. but i heard a democrat today saying that they expect to do well in the mid-term elections unless the russians interfere. and hack again and then they won't. that is where you get in the territory that is infuriating to the american voters to say you are either obviously if you have a brain or any morality at all you will vote with us. if we don't win the outcome, it has to be because there was magic and if something happened. >> harris: there is magic in

not having an economic message. >> we didn't win. right. >> charles: a message. there is no message. >> kennedy: or being unlikable. >> melissa: but democrats are out there saying things that undermine the will of the voter. to make voters if i don't agree with you, you're superior and i'm a bad person if i don't agree with you or i'm stupid or fooled by the russians. >> katie: it wasn't a rejection of hillary clinton. it wasn't a rejection of the democrat policies or government. whatever corruption or whatever is going on it has to be because someone else in this case, the russians interfering is why democrats are losing to give them an excuse not to come one a plan. this is another example of why the special counsels are always, people should be wary of them. if they are appointed it's an indictment of the current system not working. the special counsel on the robert mueller special counsel are interesting considering the criticism of this one. there is still so much we don't know.

the most importance consequence of this is the country tearing each other apart because it drags on and going to what you said. >> harris: paul manafort, the verdict, if there is a hung jury and enough cause there for robert mueller to take another bite of the apple it's another vein of the investigation that you spend more money. i'm using it as a potential example. we'll move on. with president trump under constant fire for his relationship with the media, there is new heat on the democratic party's rising progressive star alexandria ocasio-cortez. she barred the press from attending two of the town hall meetings and said she had a legitimate reason to do it. did she? i've been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. i bet i'm the first blade maker you've ever met. there's a lot of innovation that goes into making our thinnest longest lasting blades on the market. precision machinery and high-quality materials from around the world.

nobody else even comes close. it's about delivering a more comfortable shave every time. invented in boston, made and sold around the world. order now at gilletteondemand.com. gillette. the best a man can get. i never count the wrinkles. and i don't add up the years. but what i do count on... is staying happy and healthy. so, i add protein, vitamins and minerals to my diet with boost®. new boost® high protein nutritional drink now has 33% more high-quality protein, along with 26 essential and minerals your body needs. all with guaranteed great taste. the upside- i'm just getting started. boost® high protein be up for life

welcome back. alexandria ocasio-cortez is facing criticism for barring the media from two of her town hall campaign events. the 28-year-old self-proclaimed socialist called it a nonstory and defends her decision saying, "it was designed to protect and invite vulnerable populations to public discourse. immigrants, victims of domestic abuse and so on. we indicated previously that

the event would be closed to the press. future ones are open." a "washington examiner" correspondent saying i'm not sure it holds up. press ban to make voters more comfortable. except anyone could have walked in if they claimed to be a future constituents unless all of their attendees had the backgrounds vetted. which means it wasn't open to the public." this is as the president regularly faces criticism for his treatment of the press. say what you will about the president's fire and fury against the press at least he invites them to events. i don't know what it is about the democrats where they have to fend them off. it seems like she is coming one a laundry list of excuses. several of her recent press appearances have not gone well for her. >> charles: she has stepped in it so many times. it's unfortunate. she said we have a high degree of immigrants in my district. and afraid of the press? are you kidding me? that is who you go to if you are really worried.

i think she was protecting one person. her. she can't get her act together and she can't arctic pate her own message -- articulate her own message. she has not been able when she has to frame it in a way to make sense. she hasn't accomplished that. >> katie: she says 50% of the community are immigrants but doesn't want to let anyone in to meet who they are which signals to me they are illegal immigrants and harboring them and they don't want the press attending. >> melissa: that is what she wants you to say. that is the trap you are falling into. this is an excuse and she is throwing it out there. but it's so cheap and tawdry to say i'm trying to protect the victims of abuse because she can't stand up to the press. remember hillary clinton wouldn't come to the front of the rope line and wouldn't answer questions and stayed 100 feet back for a while? she is taking a page from hillary.

>> katie: i can't believe the press is cat calling her. i can't believe they would do it. >> you can't say it's open to the public and not allow the press inside. that is not open to the public. >> charles: i was on the board to a charter school in south bronx and half students were recent immigrants from africa. they are not political at all. anytime they can get the visibility for the plight, how hard it was to get to the country and what they are trying to achieve, you know, they are actually the personification of why we are great country in the first place. andrew cuomo should go some time and find out. she should let the press in to see how the country is great. >> if it the country has never been great why do so many people want to come here to realize their dreams? and if you have so many people under-served by the government don't you think they would want to tell the story?

she also threw in one more. a lot of people had medical issues. >> katie: and i wonder how the members will attack her the way they attack trump? >> melissa: more "outnumbered" in a moment. ok everyone! our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition... for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. ensure. now up to 30 grams of protein for strength and energy!

pah! thano, no, no, nah.k. a bulb of light?!? aha ha ha! a flying machine? impossible! a personal' computer?! ha! smart neighborhoods running on a microgrid. a stadium powered with solar.

a hospital that doesn't lose power. amazing. i like it. never gonna happen.

>> thanks to charles, final thought? >> sunday we break the record for the longest bull market in history. things are going well in the

country and i wish everyone would just appreciate that and let's leave politics out momentarily. >> that's great stuff. we are back here at noon eastern tomorrow. now, here is harris. >> harris: we begin with a fox news alert. security clearance showdown. president trump heading back after john brennan threatened to sue. let's go "outnumbered overtime," i'm harris faulkner. the white house reportedly drafting more security cancellations today just days after president trump revoked former cia director john brennan's access to classified information and threatened doj official bruce ohr. brennan says he is now considering taking a president to court. >> my clearances in my reputation as i'm being pulled through the mud now, if that's the price we are going to pay to prevent donald trump from doing this against other people, to me it's a small price to pay. so i'm going to do whatever i can personally tory