pete: hears to national american beer day. ed: jackson will perform the after the show show. pete: join us tomorrow. see you sunday. now that the mail bombing suspect is behind bars, the blame game is on. before he mailed the packages he tweeted a threat to one of our regular guests, rochelle richie, she's here and she's not happy with twitter. a new poll showing republican john james closing in on michigan democrat senator can he block the blue wave? he's here, and so is arizona congressman andy biggs, he's become sending more u.s. troops to the border, as the migrant caravan keeps heading toward our border, all that and a live report from the caravan in mexico, cavuto live starts right

now. good morning, everybody i'm charles payne in for neil cavuto we begin with steve herrigan, in miami about what we're learning, steve? >> reporter: charles right now, caesar is in a federal detention center here in miami on monday he will appear before a federal judge in miami before being moved to mocker for prosecution and that's where the first files were discovered and that's where the case will be prosecuted. he's going to face at least five charges, charges could increase as more evidence develops and facing at least 48 years in jail , but officials have been careful to say this investigation is not over. today's arrest doesn't mean we're all out of the woods. there may be other packages in transit now, and other packages on the way, so we need the help of everyone out there, every citizen, everyone in law enforcement, everyone we've got, to help with this investigation in the days to come.

>> reporter: he has a long criminal history in south florida dating back to 1991 he's been charged with criminal fraud , selling steroids even making a bomb threat. two key clues helped end the four day nationwide manhunt. one he had his fingerprint on one of the envelopes used to house the bomb and two, dna was found on at least two explosive devices. charles back to you. charles: steve the question is what are investigators looking for, former fbi special agent, he directed the task force that captured the unibomber and he joins us terry thanks for joining us. thank you, charles. charles: bring us up to speed where you think investigators are right now? >> well, they are just about everywhere that caesar has been in the last few months. they have his car ready and they're looking at that, trying to identify and talk to everybody he knew and trying to put together as christopher wray

just said to us a picture of the possibility of other bombs in the mail that he might have dropped off before they arrested him, and what they're going to learn as they put a timeline together that will go back many months is other information about his motivation, and even though there's all kinds of talk about and all kinds of theories about why he did what he did, the bottom line is we're probably dealing here as we have in the past with these kind of people, with an individual whose really conflicted mentally, and i think as you learn more about him, he's going to look an awful lot like other people we've dealt with before and i think back as well to the congressional shooting at the baseball congressional baseball game, if you were to put those two people side by side and look at them, while one might be a left wing extremist the other might be the other direction, what you're going to find personality wise are the same people. just like we found before over the years. charles: there's no doubt so

far at least from what the public is seeing and what's emerging from different articles , maybe some sort of fares a cystic personality there , a sociopath, obviously a loaner, a loser for sure. this psychological profile that they're compiling we are all on the sidelines as amateures now i guess how important is that toward eventually solving or being able to wrap this up and is there still a chance there could be accomplices? >> well there's always a chance and if they find and i think there's a real sigh of relief perhaps he's been making these packages in his van they find the location where the packages are being made and the bombs are being made that's kind of the sigh of relief because that kind of helps you eliminate the possibility there might be other people and another bomb maker and that everything is kind of under his hands, but that's what again, why they're being so vigilant and so reluctant to say this may all be over because he could have gotten packages

mailed off before the arrest but going back to the psychological part, it actually becomes even more important later as we try to deal with how we can prevent other acts like this and what kind of messages we can get to the public and what to look for. we say, we've said a lot since 9/11 even since the days of the unabomb, pay attention and be alert and if you see something say something but to those of us close to people that may be triggered or snap at say a political-type passionate feeling, pay attention to the people around you and the people you love as well, and i think you need to pick up on what might be driving somebody to do something you never thought they could do, and the signs are always there, and he shows them, and so many of these other serial bombers have shown them as well. charles: no doubt it's tougher sometimes when it's a co-worker perhaps and even harder when it's a family member but then if it evolves into something like this everyone feels like they should have done something. i will say one thing of note

though, terry. we look at this guys rap sheet it's about two and hail decades long, it includes felonies and a myriad of things that we would think maybe he should have been behind bars in the first place, and i think that's another reason people are reluctant to say something, because ultimately if you say something and these guys are free to walk the streets you become a target. >> people do worry about that. i've had people look me right in the eye and say well why should i have said anything, because this person already has been in trouble and no one ever kept him in jail, and it's hard to have a response to that. that's our criminal justice system, and you and i probably don't have a lot of time to talk about that. we could take a lot longer than what we have. charles: terry i appreciate your expertise all week long, so does the audience we'll talk to you again real soon thanks. >> thank you charles. charles: before we hear about the mail bombing suspect, he threatened before we even heard about this guy he threatened my next guest on twitter democrat strategist rochelle richie, she joins us now. walk us through this, rochelle.

>> we live in a society now, charles where we're constantly reminded especially living here in new york where we are told if you see something say something and i saw something and i said something and nothing happened and it's seems that that [m:ment] o does not apply when it comes to social media websites, so basically i had posted a picture of myself right before going on to a show here on fox news, and nine days later i received a tweet that you have now up on the screen, in which this man basically said that my body was going to end up being found in the slump of the everglades, to hug my loved ones and i'm not really sure what triggered him but i know on that day i had made some comments about kanye west and his visit to the oval office, and so i reported it to twitter immediately, and the response that i got back within seven minutes after reporting it, seven minutes they told me they did not find the language to be abusive behavior, and so -- charles: so a threat of taking

you out on a boat into the everglades and having your body vanished that wasn't a threat? >> no so i wonder what is so my question is does the bomb have to go off? does my body or the body of other people who have been threatened other pundits that come on television and give their political views or opinions, do their bodies have to be found in the bottom of the swamp in order for these threats to be taken seriously? charles: rochelle, you're becoming more and more public. i've seen you more on television you even appeared on my show and sometimes abuse comes with that social media abuse comes with that. why did this one stand out to you? was it the worst you'd ever gotten? did you actually have, you must have felt some personal fear or anxiety over it. >> the anxiety was because i thought of my family more than myself and coming on to fox news i always say this and i've always been treated very graciously by everyone here at fox news regardless of my more left-leaning views on things so i don't look at this as an issue as my appearance on fox news,

really the divisive rhetoric we see coming from the white house but i have gotten threats and i have been called racial slurs. charles: you don't blame the white house do you? >> i blame the president for not being able to take responsibility for his divisive rhetoric and look the president is not going to come out and say i apologize i get that but what he can do is simply change his tone. that's it. he doesn't have to necessarily take ownership of it but what he can do is behind the scenes say i'm going to take a little bit of a different approach because i don't want to see people become harmed as a result of what may be fueling this fire. charles: but the bottom line is you have gotten a lot of pushback on twitter and for some reason this was such a threat and obviously it's scary stuff to read but you took it seriously and twitter did not? >> they did not and here is the thing i've been called the n word, the b word i let it roll off my back, however when i hear someone threaten my life, that is a different, that's a different sort of threat to me and so that's why i reported it

and i have since reported this, since he's been arrested to authorities. charles: thank you very much rochelle. twitter safety, responding tweet ed "we made a mistake when rochelle richie first alerted us to the threat made against her. the tweet clearly violated our roles and should have been removed. we are deeply sorry for that error." well, the political blame game melting and the mid-terms are coming, is it working? to geico. this is how it made me feel. it was like that feeling when you're mowing the lawn on a sunny day... ...and without even trying, you end up with one last strip that's exactly the width of your mower. when you're done, it looks so good you post a picture on social media. and it gets 127 likes.

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president trump: we have seen an effort by the media in recent hours to use the sinister actions of one individual to score political points against me and the republican party. >> i'm hoping you think it's wrong to hear people spend years , months villifying people,

questioning their patriotism, calling them enemies of the people, and then suddenly, you're concerned about civility. please! charles: the political blame game heating up as americans prepare to get out the vote and then the question is how will this play out? back with us, rochelle richie along with manhattan republican party ceo and trump campaign advisory board member, madison, how is this going to impact the vote? >> ultimately i don't think it's going to charles people recognize it as being a separate issue. i do understand what people are talking about when it comes to civility i think we all need to hold ourself to a higher standard when it comes to political divisiveness in this country and we need to be able to have these conversations with people because i think you can learn a lot more from people across the aisle than people give credit right now. people don't want to talk to anybody that disagrees with them and i don't think that's a health it way to live but at the same time when it comes to the mid-terms people are focused on

the economy and so many issues that directly impact their lives and the reality is this doesn't directly impact the lives of americans across the country. charles: andrea what do you think? >> i agree with madison 100%. this guy is crazy and clearly has a rap sheet going back to 1991 long before president trump was in office this guy was causing trouble and i think the american people are going to see that and i think president trump 's message that he had yesterday one that we should go out against all political violence is one that we should all unify. charles: andrew what do you say to the people who are saying that the president trump, his rhetoric would inspire, or trigger someone like that, that if he had toned it down or if he hadn't been so harsh in some of the things that he said either on the campaign trail or as president then maybe this guy wouldn't have been motivated to do this. >> i don't think that's true at all because this guy has this long history in 2002 he threaten ed to bomb the power company when they shut off his power. this guy is just a crazy lunatic and i think there's blame on

both sides of the aisle to go around like when eric holder said that when republicans go low, kick them. i don't think that anyone should be saying that you should be kicking people just two weeks ago our manhattan gop head quarter was vandalized by antifa and the wording that they used in the note was exactly what hillary clinton said when she said democrats should not be civil towards republicans and i think that we should all be speaking out against that. charles: rochelle when something like this happens isn't it a good opportunity then for everyone to lead by example? in other words -- >> absolutely. charles: if the media and a lot of democrats have been so quick to blame president trump that it actually, to me, defies what they are trying to suggest. in other words before this was even solved before they even captured this guy, nancy pelosi and chuck schumer put out a statement essentially blaming president trump. >> i think that if we are expecting leadership from pelosi and schumer then we should also

expect leadership from the president of the united states. charles: i agree so i'm asking maybe they shouldn't have put out the statement at that time? >> i think trump supporters are being extremely sensitive because this man clearly was a trump supporter. now i'm not going to necessarily say that as a result of what donald trump has said caused this man to send pipe bombs or even to threaten my life on twitter but what i will say is that the president has a responsibility in this country to bring us back to unifying us and not to continue divisive rhetoric. i was a reporter for 12 years so when i hear someone saying that we are the enemy of the people or my friends are the enemy of the people that is encouraging that sort of divisiveness and i think as i said before we needs to just dial it back. he won't come out and say america i'm sorry i've been so volatile however he can work with his communications team to find a different way to maybe say what he wants to say. charles: and you honestly believe no matter what he says he'll be treated with the kind of respect that every president before him was by the mainstream media that loathes him so much

that almost every other week they're apologizing because they put out some news that was incorrect, wrong, misleading. >> what do they apologize for? charles: do you know how many headlines they had how many times the stock market has gone down? >> it has gone down. charles: because they put out a wrong report. >> okay. charles: and their haste because of their anxiety or resentment to trump. but let me bring madison in because steve scalise was shot. it wasn't a bomb that didn't go off. it wasn't a threatening tweet. he was shot. he was shot by a bernie sanders supporter. i did not see nancy pelosi or chuck schumer release a statement saying how dare bernie sanders put out so much language and cause this. >> it's about accountability of our law enforcement. we can't blame the president or political figure for acts of violence. i'll tell you right now whether or not president trump was or became president. people like this man are going to do things like this, like andrea said, he did things like this before now. charles: do you know what we're

worried about andrea? it's that we all get emotional about it, that this kind of, these conversations that blame someone immediately give cover to the crazies out there, to do this kind of stuff. >> i agree with you and i think that we should act on president trump's message and call for an end to all political violence and these political leaders i think it's our responsibility to encourage civil discourse. >> and agree to disagree and it starts at the top and let me tell you something words certainly matter because if words did not matter we would not have had 6 million jews killed during the holocaust so we have to understand that words certainly matter and words do encourage violence and the president has to take some sort of change in how he is communicating his message to the american people. >> do you believe the media needs to take a change as well? >> i think the media needs to report the facts and that's what they are doing. >> that's not what they are doing. >> the president has opened himself up to it. >> the media opens up to the standard of doing their job. >> and their job does not

change because they dislike somebody. >> no it changes because they are reporting facts and if this president did not stand on the podium, clearly from his bully pit and insult people they would not have it to report. >> your argument is ridiculous. charles: we'll have to leave it there but the media has not reported all facts, there's been a lot of bad and miss reporting. >> i think coming from this white house. charles: i think it's just because they don't like president trump. absolutely not. charles: ladies thank you all very very much appreciate it. well stocks sliding just as the economy continues to thrive, so what is going on? we've got a great market panel that is going to help us break it all down, next. as they always do. greeted e sergeant baker, how are you? they took care of everything a to z. having insurance is something everyone needs, but having usaa- now that's a privilege.

charles: stocks continuing the object sell-off, when will it end? fox business susan li has the latest. >> hard to say but october has traditionally been a tough tough month and a long long week of volatile trade so the dow is on track for the worst month in eight years while the technology heavy nasdac index looking at its worst month since the global financial crisis all the way back in 2008 so the big drags have been the big silicon valley names like amazon, apple, facebook, alphabet, and netflix. these are the same ones though that have also been leading the markets up to these record level s this year, concerns over higher interest rates, global trade tensions, and fears the corporate earnings might be peaking have sparked this current sell-off so this week disappointing earnings from amazon and google's parent alphabet seemed to confirm the negative market sentiment but let's keep things in perspective we're still in the midst of the longest bull market run in history and you've done pretty well from the depths of the

global financial crisis from the dow, the s&p and the nasdac up astoundingly since that time take a look at the nasdac we're up over 400% and by the way we still have a strong u.s. economy , expanding 3.5% from the june to september period less than the second quarter, yes but still better than economists forecast and really puts the u.s. economy on track for the best year of growth since 2005 that's 13 years consumer spending, a bright spot very important as well, as it powers two-thirds of the u.s. economy americans are spending at the fastest rate in nearly four years, thanks to lower taxes, and of course that great jobs market the best in close to 50 years, government spending including defense also powering economic growth as well but the main drag, housing. that's a big concern falling in the quarter, because of higher interest rates, and tax code ranges, how is it important to the u.s. as it accounts for nearly a fifth of the u.s. economy charles? charles: so that exactly is going on here susan will join us

along with fox news contributor jonas fox ferris and melissa what's going on because every day was halloween this october at least for investors. >> it was definitely a disappointing month and particularly this past week because we were talking about this earlier, google and amazon expectations were that they would gap up and rally in the earnings and they fell but i have to be honest with you, they didn't fall as much as they could have fallen and they actually held pretty good into the close on friday. this is another big week, apple reports this week. if apple bombs too that isn't going to be good for the market going into the mid-terms. charles: so funny jonas when a company says we're going to do $72 billion in revenue, in three months. the other one says yeah, we got 106 billion in the bank and they both get hammered but again susan points out that this market has come a long way no stocks are coming further. apple hasn't bombed since the newton came out. >> i'm not saying that, i'm very of omits ic. >> its been a long party look

at the numbers, i think investors are looking a little too hard for signs the party is over. and i think the primary focus has been interest rates. they went up a little too fast when you got to about 3.25% on the 10 year which sent mortgage rates for 30 year up to about 5% for consumers. that's a high rate given how high home prices are in many parts of the country and you're seeing weakness in real estate so investors are scared is it going to 4% or 7% mortgage rates and when that settles down the market gyrated back up and then back down and back up so that's the primary focus and kind of like the chaser on the whole panic is top line revenue growth at tech companies not so much the profits. everyone knows they're super great right now things loo being so great it's like 2000 or 1929 or are they going to keep growing or is it all out of venture capital, a lot of borrowing and that's where the focus is right now. >> well the mentality effects trading more than economics says jamie dimon has said that over

and over again i would agree because people forget that there is still an intact growth story in the u.s. , right? look at the gdp numbers pretty much confirming that and when amazon makes record profit in the quarter they get hit because they're not forecasting as much as what analysts anticipated don't you think that's an over shoot of expectations more than fundamentals at this point? charles: i think short-term sentiment drives markets long term fundamentals would dictate what markets and stocks probably ultimately go. to your point if it's great news , listen buy the dip has been the greatest money making tool for any investor over the last nine years, so this is one of those periods perhaps melissa based on what you just said, the fundamentals are fantastic, the emotions aren't. take advantage of the emotions. >> i'm bullish on the market. i don't think that motions are necessary negative right now because you wouldn't see consumer spending. charles: i'm talking not consumer or business but the investors that the create this where we go down 600 points in one session. i think it may be worry if the

democrats win the house then possibly some of these things, that trump has put into place his policies could be overturned or changed and i don't think that is good for the market. the market will react very positively if the republicans keep both the house and the senate in congress, but that being said, the capital gains tax right now is well under trump so if that would change if they overturn that, then that again would create people going into 2019 and saying listen the markets been up we want to take profits we'll pay a lower rate under trump because they might bump it up. nobody wants to be stuck with the hot potato at the end and when you're in the longest bull market run we're in the tenth year of expansion probably the longest on record people think when does the music end? does it end soon and they are looking for any excuses. >> i don't think it ends any time soon. and to the point i think apple could report well this week that would be great for the market going into the tuesday elections too. charles: jonas? >> you can't dismiss just pure insanity essentially but there

is rational pessimism and people are told right or wrong that october is a volatile month and it is. it should have no bearing whatsoever on your behavior but the bottom line is like oh, this is a crash month. charles: a self-fulfilling kind of event. >> like things are getting rocky this isn't october but that doesn't make sense people behave that way. >> and it's like every time the fed comes out and says a statement it's like they are trying to choke the life out of the growth in the economy. charles: i blame most of october on october 3, jay powell said something that scared the heck out of big money about not being able to tell when the top was for interest rate hikes, where neutral was, because most investors know, or agree that the recession the last 11 recessions maybe were caused by the fed over reacting to a good economy. >> history has said that the fed has put an end to the party, but i think with the strong rhetoric coming out of the white house i still think they go into summer break otherwise you look like the presidency but do they raise interest rates three times

next year, as the federal reserve speak for how many interest rates they have priced in for the next year. i'm not sure they will do that. charles: you think this impacts the mid-terms or do you think maybe this is because of the anxiety over who wins the mid-terms? >> some of it. >> i think the primary thing is interest rates and tech growth; however, it's a little related to mid-terms, because there is an underlying fee with raising rates going on the discovery debt is now an issue again and interest rates payments are going up and what we're seeing from both sides is their re-election plans are both plans to make the deficit worse. you're either getting let's do more tax cuts or let's do mix it care for all, basic income for everybody those are plans on top of what's going on now isn't going to work. charles: memo to everybody, until either one learns how to stop spending money, yeah, that's going to be a ticking time bomb. thank you all very much. well the markets trying to work their way back up the caravan of 7,000 migrants working its way up to the u.s. southern border,

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charles: mexico now offering temporary work permits to migrants traveling the caravan that's headed toward the united states this as president trump is sending more troops to our border to help block any migrant from illegally entering the united states will more troops actually do the job? here now to discuss republican congressman from arizona andy biggs. congressman thanks for joining us. >> thanks charles good to be with you. charles: it feels like this particular caravan which obviously has some outside organizational help, i don't know that they are going to be dissuaded by a true build up if you will on the southern border but how important is it that we do this? >> well i think it's critical that we do it for a couple of reasons number one they will free up the border patrol so they will be support for the border patrol agents but it'ses going to send a message to two

groups hopefully the caravan and these other caravans that are forming further south but also to the mexican and the central american state governments that they need to do more to stop their people from illegally crossing all of that way through mexico to try to get to the united states. charles: congressman bigs what happened? we were told the mexican government said we're going to stop we have our own immigration laws and rules and we'll vet these folks and all of a sudden i saw scenes offenses being born down and the caravan kept going on. is this just too big of a problem for mexico? is it just easy enough to let it just continue and let us handle it? >> well, i mean, in one way it's very easy for them to let us handle it, because their border, they choose to enforce it, sometimes they're successful and other times they let folks come on up. don't forget that mexico and these other states they get a lot of remittance payments from the united states. they are in some ways economic ally benefited by

illegal aliens crossing into our border so there is an incentive there. charles: president trump, i'm sorry former president obama called the caravan a bunch of refugees who are impoverished and malnutritioned and suggested they pose no threat to america and that this is a big much to do about nothing. >> oh, he's clearly wrong on that. even international law would suggest that these people are not refugees, they're not seeking asylum. you'd have mulholland who have been deported multiple times in this group coming back to the united states. they all admit they are coming for jobs and higher wages that's not asylum. that's seeking some kind of economic benefit and do you know what? where the u.s. has responsibilities to citizens of the united states of america, we need to, that's why we have to protect our borders. if we can't do that then what's the point of even having a border and that's where some of these people are. they don't want a border between the united states and any other country. charles: listen i get that.

i understand and what's lost in all of this is just truly how compassionate america is, has been forever, the sacrifices, whether trillions or hundreds of thousands of lives keeping the world free, and then the guilt trip that comes along with this but i'm not sure you're down in arizona, even if you're coming here you want to be part of this country i would prefer to see a lot of american flags in the caravan. i don't see that i see flags of other nations and again, if you want the things that we stand for, you want to be part of the country, i understand. i want to come live in this country too if i wasn't born here but i would be approaching with an american flag in my hand ready to fill out the proper paperwork. >> well absolutely we let in over a million people in this country legally every year, a lot of people want to come here from all over the world, and we want people who want to be here to be here, provided they're going to become americans. i mean, we have a distinct culture, we really do and it

boils down to individual of freedom and individual responsibility. that's who we want to be here and some of these folks have indicated pretty clearly they're coming here as honduras, they stay that way coming here as mexicans they want to stay mexicans. that is a problem for the united states of america. charles: why can't congress get this fixed? we've got the loopholes, we've got the issues at both parties over the years have agreed exist why can't congress, this one issue hanging over our heads like it doesn't go away. it's divisive, it seems like an easy fix why hasn't it happened? >> well i'm going to tell you i think that you've got a couple reasons one is procedural rules in the senate you have to get 60 votes and nobody can get 60 votes on any particular bill, political reasons, our leadership wants to stack like 20 ideas into one bill, because they are trying to buy different people off and that pushes other people off instead of taking

stuff up the american people one issue at a time throwing a policy out there, let us vote on it. two things happen that way, it becomes transparent we know who wants certain things and who doesn't want certain things so the voters can respond to that and then also, clarifies what the policies really going to be. charles: transparency in congress that would be a novel idea. let's switch gears for a moment because deputy attorney general rod rosenstein is expected to sit down with top lawmakers next week. of course he will be likely to be questioned on the new york times report that he discussed secretly recording president trump. congressman you sit on the house judiciary committee what should we expect? >> well i'm hoping that we expand beyond just the chairman and allow the task force and those of us questioning other witnesses to all get together. i want a sworn statement. i want him there, and answering these questions, and let us really get to the bottom of it. mr. rosenstein is kind of the hub of which all these spokes surround whether it's the fisa

warrant reauthorization to this allegation that he agreed to wear a wire to wire tap the president, record the president. i mean these are serious issues and i'm hoping we can get at them. charles: it appears for now, president trump though, is okay with rod rosenstein? obviously he's not happy with these reports. now, since then, its been sort of a turn that it was a joke, it was said but perhaps it was said but the idea that so many people have secretly recorded the president of the united states is so unnerving to me as an american citizen. >> yeah, i think even if it's joking, it's a terrible thing, but i mean, maybe the president 's strategy is keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer still that's one of the things i look at. charles: when do you expect that we can start to see some of these things, some of these investigations done? there's been a lot of speculation that immediately

after the mid-terms, we should start hearing, getting some answers on all of these investigations. >> well one of the issues that you have, charles, is that we in the house and the senate, we've been investigating this. we've come to some conclusions, but we need to refer this information on, but who do we refer it to? well we refer it to the attorney general's office and jeff sessions recused himself from a lot of this stuff and that's likely we don't know where that ends and starts and mr. rosenstein himself who needs to be investigated probably has a major conflict. he's not been real cooperative with us either so we end up referring this stuff to the people who can't really investigate themselves. charles: congressman bigs thank you very much it's always a pleasure talking to you thanks. >> thanks charles. charles: thankfully none of those pipe bombs detonated but they were making their way through our mail system. is there anyway to stop that from happening in the future?

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charles: breaking news we have reports of a shooting at a synagogue in pittsburgh with multiple fatalities. pittsburgh police department telling us we're not making a comment to the media right now. we have an active shooter we will not make a comment until the situation is resolved. let's go to former d.c. detective ted williams. ted this news breaking just now you were not booked for this but we appreciate having you. your initial thoughts? >> well, i'm sure that law enforcement is now surrounded that area. it's supposedly in pittsburgh the squirrel hill area so when you have an active shooter the question is, what various portions of the police department are called out to the scene there? is" a barricade situation or is it actually an active shooter and if it's someone in the sense

of an active shooter then they're going to go in. if not, they're going to put themselves in a position where they can try to determine what's going on at that scene, at this immediate time. charles: when you say go in, even if there are potential hostages that they would be prepared to some form of offensive action here? >> absolutely if in fact they believe that there are hostages in there, in that synagogue, and that those hostages are very well in harms way, then they are going to immediately go in, absolutely. charles: ted, we've seen so many of these at this point. do these major cities, a city like pittsburgh, do they have now specific units to deal with this, like an active shooter swat team per se? >> absolutely. most of the major metro pal metropolitan cities train for these unfortunate events where in fact you may have an active shooter so they do have

experts on hand to handle these kind of situations, charles. charles: tell us the importance of timing here. how quickly with these teams they're specialized they've trained for this, how important is it then that they act quickly on these situations? >> it is significantly important that they act quickly, and they are trained to act and react very quickly. i am sure that they're on the scene. they're trying to try to determine what they actually have, is there an active shooting going on and if in fact they are, they will certainly move in. if there's not, they will setup and have a barricade team in place, but the swat team is clearly taking various positions around that sin sin sin synagogue and you have one individual who would probably be the leader of the swat team that's trying to communicate to

try to determine what's going on inside the synagogue. charles: and we should let the audience know that the shooting is reportedly at the tree of life synagogue, at the warner of wikins and shady avenues again in pittsburgh for people in the area, people who live there that's what you need to know, before i let you go then, ted, it's just hard to find the words because this happens so often and it's always one of these where people now commonly are referring to as soft targets but meaningful targets like a synagogue. >> yeah, charles the sad commentary is as you know we've had various high schools that have been attacked. these are like synagogues are considered soft targets so when you have this kind of a scenario , a situation, it's very difficult to try to immediately find out what's going on, but that's going to be very significant. law enforcement before they go

barreling in, they're going to try to determine what is actually going on there, and how they can diffuse the situation immediately. charles: and i want to remind the audience that pittsburgh police department has confirmed that it's an active shooting we're told there are multiple fatalities. ted, is gone are the days when they try to negotiate with these sort of people? does that play any kind of role any more? >> well negotiations are definitely continue to play a role. it's according to what they have and what they believe they have, meaning law enforcement, when they arrive at one of these locations. as a result, we're hearing now that there are multiple fatalit ies here, so there may very well be other individuals at that synagogue in harms way, so as a result of that, that means that they will move in as expeditiously as possible. charles: ted williams thank you

very much again we have an active shooter situation right now in pittsburgh and at the tree of life synagogue. we'll be right back with more. - at athene, we think it's time for the financial world to stop acting the same old way. you need a partner that is willing to break free from conventional thinking. we are a different kind of financial company. we are athene, and we are driven to do more.

charles: breaking news again we have an active shooting situation in pittsburgh, pennsylvania in the squirrel hill neighborhood the tree of life synagogue reports of eight shot, four dead, two of those shot were police officers who had to use their vehicles to shield themselves. we understand that there were some people in the synagogue who have been rescued some from the basement others from the atrium folks in the squirrel hill area are being asked to shelter in place, as local hospitals are now preparing to accept those who are shot. i want to bring back former d.c.

detective ted williams. you know, when you hear about the police officers two of them being shot and magazines, semi- automatic magazines being involved a lot of shells it sounds like the person or persons, they're packing some pretty powerful weapons there. it comes back to the idea that we need to make sure our law enforcement is equipped to deal with this. >> absolutely, charles. i can tell you one of the questions that i have right now is is the shooter or shooters down, meaning have they been killed or taken into custody? because it seems as though law enforcement officers ran into what appears to be here an ambush, because they were immediately called to that scene , they moved in, and as a result of that, from what we're getting then it's not confirmed me yet, that at least two law enforcement officers have been

shot, so what we have here is a great deal of confusion on the scene when these things happen, but again, as we said earlier, law enforcement are trained to move into these kinds of unfortunate situations and to immediately diffuse them to incarcerate or to kill a wounded shooter. charles: ted to that point the initial conversation you talked about the circumstances whether there would be any negotiations considering eight people have been shot, four are reportedly dead and two officers are shot. how does that change the dynamics of the police action now? >> it's does to some degree. i would have to believe that law enforcement would have had under these scenario and circumstances to move in immediately into that synagogue and as a result of that, hopefully, they have put the shooter down and one of the things we know is that they

talked about how many have been wounded and how many have been killed. if those confirmations are true, then it's more likely than not that they've either cornered the perpetrator or perpetrators or they've actually taken that person down but they still very much, charles, have a chaotic scene there. charles: there's no doubt we just had images of both an assortment of first responders from law enforcement to look like firefighters, we have ambulances there, and how do you know, ted when there's a situation like this in perhaps in exchange of gunfire that you have the shooter and that there may not be, i know that you have to obviously be cautious but you also express the sense of urgency as well. how do you work those two together? >> well you work them together with individuals, perhaps on the

scene, who can give law enforcement information as they are responding to the scene. this is where citizens are on the scene where the police dispatcher and the law enforcement officers responding to that scene have to all work together to try to determine what's going on, especially when you have an active shooter who may very well have blended in with individuals within the synagogue or you're trying to determine who is actually the shooter and who are innocent victims of the shooter, as you go in. it's a very chaotic scene when this is going on and this is what law enforcement do. they train unfortunately for these kinds of activities. charles: during the break, rick unger, a frequent guest on our network, mentioned that he's been to that synagogue before, squirrel hill, a very populated jewish neighborhood and he

suspects it was very crowded. his sister actually is very close to chatham college in that there would be a whole lot of people in that synagogue, so obviously it was a desirable target and it's just unfathom able that it would have been chosen and yet it was and cheer we are, ted, with just another one of these horrific incidents an active shooter situation, eight shot in pittsburgh, pennsylvania at least four are dead and now we're just waiting to find out what exactly is going on from here. what are your thoughts as a former police detective for your colleagues, what they're doing and what they're going through right now? >> well they are certainly doing their job, that's serving and protecting the citizens there in pittsburgh meaning simply where citizens can runaway from incidents, law enforcement officers have to run toward this kind of danger, so

what they are doing primarily right now is trying to determine if the shooter is down. there's plenty of time, charles, to try to determine a motive behind this but that isn't what is primarily on their minds at this stage. the primary thing on their mind is put the shooter down and once the shooter is down, it's to try and assist anyone whose injured or wounded at that scene and that's what primarily is on the mind of these law enforcement officers at this i know in the past these situations there was a sense of urgency and it's early so maybe it won't come into play, but to resolve it while there's daylight, and it's an overcast day and it's raining. we have a live camera and you can see they just wiped the lens. how much of this plays into how to resolve this to your point as

fast as possible? >> well, the bottom line is, charles, irrespective of the weather, these law enforcement officers are trained to immediately go into this kind of a scenario or situation. they train monthly and weekly to do-- for these kinds of scenarios, so, primarily, they don't concern themselves about the weather. they're concerned about one thing and one thing only, putting the shooter down. charles: right. >> and neutralize that crime scene and it's now, charles, unfortunately, a crime scene. charles: is there urgency though to -- would there be a sense of urgency to do it before it became dark or does that not matter at all? >> well, they would love to do it, certainly, before dark. i would think, charles, that from what we now know, that law enforcement officers have moved in very quickly here and i would have to believe they are very much in control of that crime

scene right now, and i don't know at this stage as to whether there's an actual barricade, but we do know that they are tending to the wounded and the dead on that scene. so it tells me that they got a -- some control of that crime scene. charles: to your point, we heard from local reporting that some of the folks who were in the synagogue were rescued out of the basement and some from the atrium and others may be barricaded in other parts of the synagogue. the tree of life synagogue. it's in the squirrel hill district of pittsburgh, pittsburgh, pennsylvania and the citizens in that neighborhood have been asked to shelter in place. and for those who are just tuning in, an active shooter situation, eight people have been shot. four are reported to have been killed. two of those shot are police officers who apparently, there was such gunfire coming from the synagogue, ted, that they had to use their vehicle to shield them

as they pulled back out. >> well, that tells me, charles, that they ran then-- meaning law enforcement into an ambush here, and as a result of that, law enforcement officers may have been injured or unfortunately killed and them having to use their police vehicles, but also, it tells me that they're trying to get control there. they've asked people to shelter in place in that community, so we still have a fluid crime scene, a fluid activity on the -- at that scene that's taking place. again, you have various law enforcement officers who are experts, who are trained, like s.w.a.t. teams, to go in and to try to diffuse this situation. it's going to take some time to ferret out what is going on at

that scene, but i have all the confidence in the world in the pittsburgh police department they're one of the excellent police departments in this country. charles: ted, please hold on for us. i want to bring in former boston police commissioner ed davis. commissioner, thanks for joining us. commissioner davis, do we have you? >> good morning, can you hear me, charles. charles: i can. week. thank you for joining us. just to bring everyone up to speed here, an active shooter situation in pittsburgh, pennsylvania in the squirrel hill neighborhood at the tree of life synagogue. at least eight people have been shot. four are dead, two of those shot are police officers, sir. your expertise, unfortunately, you know, having to deal with things like that, where do you think we are and what's your assessment? >> well, this is the worst case scenario where you have people worshipping at a religious ceremony and someone enters and

uses a firearm to injury and kill people. the police officers who respond to the scene are especially trained. after columbine and mistakes that were made in setting up a perimeter and not going inside, we now train our officers to move to contact is what the s.w.a.t. teams call it. and essentially, it is moving in to the sound of gunfire as quickly as you can. but i've been in situations where you pull up in front of a residence for a call and gunfire starts to emit from the residence. the first responsibility is the safety of the officer and the safety of the community and they have to take cover behind their cars, and figure out a way to make an entry through flanking maneuvers or coming through the back. so that they can get inside and do what needs to be done. they need to neutralize the situation. charles: commissioner, to that point, the two officers who were shot, they had to use their police vehicles as shields to

back out of there and it sounds like there's reports of magazines being discovered, lots of shells, perhaps some semi automatic weapon or automatic weapon. it always kinds of brings to mind how often the police are outgunned in some of these situations and the urgency, perhaps, to make sure that we better equip our police officers. >> right. i've been to scenes where cars, police cars have been riddled with gunfire. i've been to the families of officers who have been shot. it is a terrible thing for them to go through, but i can tell you that because the police are not the military in the united states, we all carry side arms. we don't walk around with rifles slung over our shoulder. so, if someone is using that type of weapon, we need to have tactics in place and equipment that's easily accessible to us,

to respond in kind. so even though every officer doesn't have a rifle over his or her shoulder, they are sometimes in the trunk, they are available in cars that are especially equipped to come into the area quickly so that you can-- you can get in the range of these individuals. a rifle can fire accurately out to several hundred yards and a side arm is only accurate to, you know, 20 or 30 feet. so there's a real discrepancy in what you're facing when you get to a scene like this and it's extremely dangerous. we don't want to send officers on suicide missions. >> no, we don't. as you're speaking we have live video -- a live shot, rather, of the scene there and we saw a big city police s.w.a.t. truck, van go into the area and i would suspect that those are the people who have the proper equipment or -- and the training, of course, to deal with this, but, again, it's a

soft target and this is something that's going to come up, i guess, inevitably, it's not completely preventible, but, you know, you've dealt with this, commissioner. it's schools, synagogues, despicable stuff and you wonder how you can make them safer. >> right, i work on those issues every single day, we work with companies to try to put in common sense measures, not making places an armed camp, but at least making sure that when the doors are locked, just, you know, shooting through the door will not allow the glass to break and somebody to walk right in. there are methods and systems in place. there are surveillance systems. but we're still an open society and we want to maintain that and because of that, people with bad intent can use that against us. charles: major cities and we had this discussion with detective ted williams, obviously, you mentioned as well, you have to deal with this more frequently

than others. are there other things that have been done or that are in the process of happening, maybe better surveillance equipment, things like that to really alleviate the anxiety that comes with this because it's a terrorist event. it's not, you know, god bless the people there and their families and they're going to go through stuff, but everyone who went to the synagogue today, everyone who goes to a church tomorrow might have this in their minds. right, detective williams did a great job dealing with an unfolding situation which is always hard to do, but the truth of the matter is, there are improvements, technology improvements that will help us. some of it leads to -- is around the type of barriers that exist out there, the type of equipment that can be put in to harden the target. and those materials are getting better and better every year, but the big innovation is the use of video and artificial

intelligence in monitoring what's going on. police are trained to look for anomalies, something that seems out of place. i've seen it a number-- many, many times in my career. they spot something just out of the corner of their eye and they realize something is wrong. we can use cameras to do that with artificial intelligence. they're getting better ander every year. when someone walks in with a bulge in their jacket or someone is not usually in this location or when someone is identified as part after prohibited person or with a record that you can identify, the facial recognition, things like that, this is all happening. it's making us safer, but it's not coming fast enough, unfortunately. charles: commissioner, your thoughts now on where we might be in this situation? i know it's speculation, but it feels like, you know, we see

scenes of people walking, you know, not necessarily running. it doesn't feel like there's a sense of urgency. what could be going on at this very moment. >> well, it is hard to tell because you don't know how far out that scene is from the actual incident, but from the looks of things, it looks like it's under control and when you see trucks arriving slowly and moving into the crime scene and back and forth, that's an indication that there's been -- there's been some resolution inside. it's possible the individual is holed up in a closet or something and you know, they're waiting to move forward, but from the looks of things, it's -- it appears to be under control and i'll tell you, it's really important for the police to get that information out to people. there are thousands of people that are connected to the synagogue that have family there that are very anxious at this point in time so if this suspect has been neutralized or is secured in a particular area, it's incumbent upon the local

authorities to let people know that. charles: one second here because we've got a breaking tweet from president trump just now watching the events unfolding in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. law enforcement in the scene. people in squirrel hill area should be sheltered. looks like multiple fatalities, beware of shooter, god bless all. the right nej at the right ti-- message at the right time and the police requested everyone shelter in place. it gets back to your point, commissioner, the anxiety all the family members must be going through right now in the hopes of hearing that there's some form of resolution. is one of the issues or could one of the issues actually be that maybe they feel like someone is town, they may be have gotten someone, but not sure of their accomplices there? >> there's no question that there is a lot of work being done after an incident like this, to identify other individuals who may be involved.

and sometimes that's right at the scene. so after you catch the suspect, or get the suspect into custody somehow, then you have to slowly and methodically clear all the rooms in the building, and there's people in those rooms, usually, there are frightened, so, sometimes it's not easy to get them out. you have to convince them that you're the good guys. so there's a process going on there. and at the same time that's happening, there's a process going on around the individual identifying the suspect and then doing a deep dive into who he is, where he's from, who his associates are and whether or not this is a foreign or domestic incident. all of that stuff is happening right now. it's great to hear the president being so supportive of law enforcement. it's tremendous. charles: yeah, it came out at the right time, i think, this tweet and of course, expressing support. and the one thing i was wondering though with respect to a potential accomplice. the hesitation or sort of

impasse we're going through, every second feels like a lot longer because everyone's anxious about all of this. so, my question is, if there's an exchange of gunfire and it stops, but the police aren't sure if they got the person, they're not sure if there are more in there. how do they come to that determination, some point they need to make an offensive move into the synagogue, right? >> that's right, they'll move the contact and officers will move in as close as they can until gunfire erupts and then they'll take cover and exchange gunfire, but i think that the first responsibility is to evacuate people, get them out of there. then go to the suspect and then perform whatever is needed as far as first aid and removal of individuals who have been injured. so, there's a process that the s.w.a.t. teams are very well-trained on. they go through, you know, months and months of training

every year and they're ready to move on it in a situation like this. charles: you know, we heard reports that local police are preparing, that they're making the beds ready and the proper surgical teams ready. i've not seen any footage yet of-- i've seen a couple of ambulances that look like they're on standby, but none moving. perhaps they've already taken those who have been injured to local hospitals, but help explain to us how that whole process works as well. >> well, that certainly happens immediately. the first officers on scene will move to-- >> commissioner, commissioner, do we me a favor. ted williams, i want to bring him back in because ted has new information he's going to share with us. ted. >> yeah, from what i understand, this has not been confirmed, but that the shooting is now taken place on the third floor of the synagogue, meaning that law enforcement officers from what i understand have cornered the guy

on the third floor of this synagogue and that the shooting could continue-- still be active or they may have actually put him down. when-- as the commissioner says, when you see s.w.a.t. team coming in and they're rolling in very slowly, then that may be a possibility that the shooter or shooters are already down, but from what i've been told and gep, -- again, this is unconfirmed, that the shooting, the shooter and shooter was cornered on the third floor of this synagogue and that the shootout was taking place there. charles: you know, ted, that would actually, you know, points to early reports from local media there saying there were some people in the synagogue who were rescued and some were in the basement and some in the atrium, it sounds like perhaps the shooter in the facility itself was moving around and as he or she moved, in this case, apparently up to higher flights,

they were able to rescue people in there, although i think some are still barricaded in. the third floor, maybe some point we'll probably learn how many floors there are, but this kind of shooting, this is it. this would be -- would this be the climatic scene of this? if he's cornered the police were go in and try to finish this situation? >> absolutely. as the commissioner said a few minutes ago, the first thing that law enforcement are concerned about is trying to neutralize the scene by getting individuals who are either wounded or injured or just in the line of fire out of that synagogue, and so at that stage, they can have more control over the activity there. once they've been able to get to citizens or individuals within the synagogue out and also, those people are able to give law enforcement officers information and that is what is

really critical at this stage, is as law enforcement officers are going into that synagogue, that they have as much information as possible about the shooter or shooters. and that clearly means that they may have been given some information, they could have through a shootout, happening, and i'm speculating right now, have drawn this guy to the third floor of that synagogue, or he very well could have been in that position at the beginning and law enforcement officers found out about it, and it's my understanding that there was a shootout or a shooting going on with the shooter on the third floor of the sin going. charles: ted, hold it right now. they're also now hearing that carnegie mellon university is on lockdown for safety reasons. it is on lockdown. we also know that, of course, residents of the squirrel hill area have been asked and requested to shelter in place. again, bringing in the audience

up-to-date here, eight have been reportedly shot, two of those police officers and there are four reported dead so far. ted, now, so the good news, it seems like it's a lone shooter. it's one person and that this shooter is cornered and may-- is either engaging in gunfire, may already actually have been taken down? >> that is the very good news. i think that the best news out of this is that law enforcement are looking after the safety of the individuals in that synagogue and trying to get them in a position where law enforcement can now do its job. what we have here now, unfortunately, is a massive crime scene that law enforcement is dealing with. if they've neutralized the shooter, then as the commissioner says they'll go to the quote, unquote, process of the crime scene.

if the shooter has not been neutralized then they very well may have somewhat of a barricade situation with the shooter and quite naturally, the objective of law enrment to is to neutralize this shooter by either taking him in custody or shooting and killing him or shooting him and neutralizing that crime scene because it is clearly a crime scene. charles: of course after eight people have been shot, four dead and including two police officers who have been shot and are wounded, the notion of capture, that's -- maybe it happens, but they have to right now probably-- and i'm asking, ted -- be in a sort of of survival situation. going in and assuming this person is dangerous and i know it's a cliche, shoot to kill. >> well, shoot -- law officers are taught to shoot at center mass so quite naturally their

objective right now is to neutralize the shooter and use any means necessary to neutralize that individual or individuals and so they're always in a heightened state of alert, law enforcement, when they go to these kinds of scenes. so, they're dealing with a danger here that may be known or unknown to them. that's one reason why it is crucial that they are able to interview people as they are going in to a scene like this. they have special individuals who are talking individuals, trying to determine what happened, when did it happen? where is the shooter? giving them, law enforcement that information that is relayed to the s.w.a.t. team and the s.w.a.t. team having that kind of intelligence can go in to try to neutralize the shooter. charles: at what point, ted, or how long would it take and the

commissioner brought this up, because this apparently is a very popular synagogue, the tree of life synagogue, it's a lot jewish neighborhood and eight people shot and four people dead. how long if the shooter is down now would it take for them to communicate to the local area that there's an all clear? or does the investigative process continue maybe to see if the car he's driving, if it's booby trapped, if there are accomplices? how long could it take? >> as the commissioner stated, you want to get information out to the community as expeditiously as possible, but when you're dealing with a crime scene where there may have been a carnage of individuals shot and killed, you're trying to find out and determine what's

best in the order of processing the crime scene. at some stage here, and i think it will happen very shortly, if the shooter has been neutralized, that you will have a press conference. it is vital and it is important to get information out to people in that community because clearly they're in fear and they're concerned about it him in harm's way. charles: ted, we have breaking news and an update, there's a report now that a suspect is in custody, not quite sure if that means it's the actual shooter himself, but there is a suspect in custody now. what do you make of that? >> well, if a suspect in custody or suspects, the first thing they're trying to determine is was it just one shooter or are there more that throughout that synagogue? as the commissioner stated earlier, the s.w.a.t. team are going to have to move room through room to make sure that

there are no other individuals in harm's way. normally, when you have a shooting of that nature, and the moment that individual hears gunshots, they go and they try to take cover as best they can. and so, the s.w.a.t. team is now moving throughout the synagogue to make sure that they can neutralize and to make sure that they have the one shooter and that there are no other shooters. once that takes place, everything moves to what is known as the preservation of an unfortunate crime scene here. so those are the things that are going on with law enforcement at this immediate him. charles: i want to bring back commissioner ed davis. commissioner, apparently the test -- to ted's point, maybe the suspect cornered on the third floor and shootout began and word after suspect in custody, not clear if it's the

shooter, but now what happens? >> well, the suspect, if he's alive, will be brought in for questioning and one of the big things that the police are looking for is motivation. is this a one-off? is this a single incident? is it all under control now? and can we move to that phase of prosecution or is this an unfolding incident? are there other plots out there and other individuals involved? so when something like this happens, the joint terrorism task force, the fusion centers in the space they're spun up and working on this stuff now to try to determine whether or not we're dealing with something bigger than someone that simply, you know, did this person, the motivation of the person, did the person want to go in to shoot somebody that they know? was there a personal connection to it? is it religious? you know, there are obviously a lot of things going on here and you can assume some things, but

that it's the job of the officers to get him into custody. to question him and then to figure out exactly what's going on. charles: all right. hold on one second, commissioner. let's listen in. >> we will be coming back to you. >> there are fatalities, but we're not commenting now. >> any-- >> we'll be back to advise the media on a regular basis, but at this point that's all we have. >> we're still asking, we're still asking residents to stay inside their homes. it's not a safe situation yet. thank you. >> law enforcement official there coming out for a brief statement to some local reporters, saying that it's not a safe situation yet. they're requesting that the residents of squirrel hill in pittsburgh remain sheltered in place and acknowledging there are some fatalities, not giving an exact number although earlier reports put the dead at four. eight shot including two police

officers who were shot and had to use their own police vehicle to shield themselves to get out of the situation. commissioner, i'm sorry i cut you off, can you continue? >> sure. well, what i talked about was motive. and in trying to drill down into exactly what was behind this so that we can determine whether or not this is a one-time thing or that there are other things happening. right in this day and age, anything is possible and our biggest fear here is that there are other incidents being planned. so they'll do that if the individual is still alive, and you know, they can learn a lot just based upon things like exploiting the telephone that the suspect has with him. looking into, you know, the social media feeds that he's responsible for. at the same time that they're working on the emerging crisis and making sure that the people are safe, there's an operation

going on behind the scenes to investigate and to determine how it happened and to start to build a case against the suspect. charles: ted, you mentioned preservation of unfortunate -- give us the term again for what the next phase of this would be once the suspect is apprehended. >> ted williams, do we still have you. >> yes, i'm sorry, i didn't hear you. well, first of all, it's a very fluid scene. charles: right. >> but i can tell you as a lawyer what will happen next is that if they've got somebody in custody they'll start questioning the person. they will advise that person of their miranda rights and at that time that person will either continue to talk to law enforcement officers or they will cease and law enforcement officers will not have any more conversation with the person, but what you've got now-- >> okay, ted, hold on one second, authorities spoke moments ago and we did get it on

tape and let's share with the audience now, please. >> so at this time the suspect in the shooting is in custody. we have multiple casualties inside the synagogue. we have three officers who have been shot. and at this time we have no more information because we're still clearing the building and trying to figure out if the situation is safe. if there are any or threats inside the building. that's all we have at this point, the shooter is in custody, there's multiple casualties and three officers shot. thank you. >> take us step by step. >> i can't take you anything right now. i can't answer any questions right now. >> still a lot of information. >> and any of the casualties fatal? >> there are fatalities, but we're not commenting now. >> any-- >> we'll be back to advise the media on a regular basis, but at this point that's all we have. charles: so, ted, again, that

was the police official clearing it up, a lot of the questions here that the shooter is in custody. there have been multiple casualties, the local media puts it at four. not confirmed yet by the police department. they are still clearing the poi building, a point that you made earlier. the initial report of two officers shot, now at three. please finish, ted. >> as i was saying, now have a crime scene and that crime scene has to be processed and there's a dual investigation going on. not only the crime scene, but now that they've got the shooter in custody, they're going to try, as i've said, to talk to the shooter, to try to determine what was the motive. are there any other individuals in harm's way anywhere in pittsburgh or the area, or did he work in concert with others

to bring about this concearnage all of those are happening in dual investigations. as to the crime scene, they are collecting evidence at this stage. meaning there are shell casings around there. if they have guns, are they collecting that kind of information. they have a forensic team that will be on that scene doing a forensic scrub. so as i've said, you have a dual investigation. as it pertains to the shooter himself, it is my understanding that he may very well have been injured. if that's the case they're moving him to a hospital, but at some stage they're going to try to question him and then to try to determine what was his motive. by now, i would have to believe that law enforcement officers have probably identified this person so quite naturally, they've now gone into their own

data banks to try to determine as much as they possibly can about the person and to try to also again, as i've said earlier, determine motive in regards to this matter, this shooting. charles: and determining motive is-- what's the importance of doing that at this particular time? >> well, you want to determine the motive because you want to try to determine if there's other individuals involved, if there is other activity that may very well be taking place. and quite naturally, normal human beings just don't walk into a synagogue and shoot it up. so you're trying to determine if this is a hate crime, or quite naturally, prosecutors are also at this stage involved and so they're determining what charges, and at what stage this person will be charged and what the arraignment would be.

but that's on the one side of the investigation. but the crucial shot of the investigation right now is the preservation and the collection of evidence at this crime scene. charles: commissioner, ed davis, i want to bring you back in because you also brought up the notion of motive and how critical it is at this particular time. >> right. it really is because right now this appears to be a murder and that is under the jurisdiction and investigation of the pittsburgh police department, but if there's a nexxis to terrorism here, the fbi will come in and immediately take over the investigation. so there's a lot of work being done right now to determine who this person is and why they did what they did. make sure that there are no other things planned, you know, and then to determine what this was about which court, federal or state, is better to deal with it. you know, i also wanted to

mention that the amount of restraint here shown by the officers is really remarkable. they've gone into a combat situation, three of their own have been shot. they've encountered this coward in a synagogue who's killed and injured people and he's alive and i think that that's a testament to the training that these officers have and the sense of justice. charles: i agree, what an amazing week for law enforcement. first the mail bomber, swift action, coordination from law enforcement, fbi, local authorities, the mail, postal service. it's just remarkable. we were reminded this week just how important, how critical it is and how dangerous it is for these police officers, law enforcement people to keep us safe. you know, we take-- i think too many people, commissioner, take it for granted, but we were reminded this week in two incidences back to back, how great ner they are

and how important in their lives. >> i agree and thank you for saying that, charles. charles: absolutely. so, ted, i want to go back to you because you mentioned miranda rights as we were going to that impromptu short press thing. talk to us about the miranda rights and how they will be applied and what happens if he accepts it or doesn't accept it. >> sure, charles. what happens is, once they have taken the person in custody, law enforcement officers have a right to immediately start questioning the perpetrator or the suspect. some say they will tell him that he has the right to remain silent, that anything he use-- or anything he says can be used against him and they will also advise him that he also has a right to a lawyer. and if the person says that they want to continue to talk to law enforcement officers, they can

do so, but at that stage if they say that they want a lawyer present, then at that stage under miranda versus arizona, that person -- and that's a supreme court decision, that that person then, law enforcement will stop questioning the person and they will allow that person to have a lawyer present before the person says anything else and that's very significant and important in these investigations. i can tell you, as a lawyer, once a person has been mirandized and if they continue to talk, then that testimony certainly can be used against them in a court of law. on the other hand, if they say they want a lawyer and they stop talking, and some say the investigators continue to try to elicit information from them, that information could at some stage be inadmissible in a court of law.

charles: all right. in just a moment we're getting an update and there's some developments, major significant developments in this story. fox reporter jacqui heinrich will be sharing with us momentarily. she's ready. let's go to her now. >> hi, we're on this end coming through the reports of local media at the scene. what i'm seeing is that the tree of life synagogue is the largest jewish community in that area, the squirrel hill neighborhood is a largely jewish community, it is the conservative, most conservative community in that area. the gunman we're hearing opened fire, four people confirmed dead, reports of up to eight people shot. and the officers responded, and local media outlet wpxi, the responding officers were forced to use their vehicles as a shield and that shooting happened in the basement of the synagogue. we've heard from police there on the scene that the suspect did

surrender, but police were inside the building trying to determine if there might be any other threats. they're still rescuing people who were in the basement of the synagogue. the area has been sealed off. we also know that nearby carnegie mellon university was placed on lockdown. students received text messages to their phones telling them to shelter in place. and police speaking to local media on the scene put a message out a little while ago to people watching their televisions in their homes to stay inside. the president also sent out that tweet a little while ago. that was before the shooter was apprehended, so now we're waiting on updated information to see if that neighborhood has been allowed to sort of come back from the shelter in place order. also doing some research on this synagogue, so, this shooting happened during the 9:45 a.m. shubot. it's the busiest and most attended service of the week and another service typically happens at 10:15 and that is

specifically for children in kindergarten through 7th grade. the online calendar shows that that service was not happening today so we can gather that this likely happened for the 9:45 a.m. shubot. we've also heard from local media outlet kdka that the gunman reportedly went into the synagogue shouting all jews must die. that comes from local media outlet kdka. still waiting for updated details from the police on the scene there. according to the website from the synagogue, the congregation was founded 150 years ago and in 2010 two pittsburgh synagogues merged to form the tree of life. so it's huge in the jewish area and of course a lot of tension on the scene as people await the number of people killed and what exactly is happening right now with the rescue from folks inside. charles: thank you very much.

so official reports of four dead has now been doubled, eight dead, three police officers shot, they were responding, of course, to the call. the tree of life synagogue as someone alerted me earlier, a very busy, popular, the largest in this particularly-- this is the largest jewish neighborhood, squirrel hill and the largest synagogue there, 150 years old. the 1y 45 shubot, busiest of the week, it's just, again, it dovetails into the other heartbreaking aspects of this, but the shooter is in custody and they're still clearing the building right now, law enforcement asking the people in the neighborhood to still, for now, shelter in place. we know that carnegie mellon university was on lockdown of an adun -- abundance of caution

and local hospitals have been preparing to treat those wounded. sadly the death count when we started initial reports by local -- by the local media there said four dead and now we're hearing the number is up to eight dead. three police officers have been also been wounded. so, it's another really horrific day in this country. where a place of worship was targeted. for the shooter, for the madman that apparently walked in and said all jews must die, this seemed to be timed and planned to hit it at its peakme, to attk the synagogue when the worshippers were at their most vulnerable point. as a consequence we have eight people dead. and steve, we have on the phone.

give your thoughts on this. >> needless to say a tragedy for this country. it sound, charles, like a bias crime, it sound like because of what he yelled, death to jews, as the commissioner said earlier-- >> all jews must die. >> yes, all jews must die and that clearly, clearly shows that there is a premeditated bias matter here. as the commissioner said earlier, motive is going to be very important. who else is out there? who was this individual in contact with? where did the weapons come from? so we have to be cognizant of the fact that this is an ongoing investigation and it's not going to end very soon. there are a lot of questions that we need to see answered. charles: it's not going to end soon, steve, but obviously, considering again that this is a very popular place of worship, 150-year-old synagogusynagogue, the biggest congregation of the week, the shubot that started at 9:45. there are a lot of people who are wondering about their loved

ones. at some point, i would assume and hope soon, that the police will be able to articulate perhaps who is alive, who isn't, who is wounded. how do you see that playing out? >> i see that happening sooner rather than later. they need to positively identify everyone who was there. they want to be sure that they do not misidentify anyone because that would be a tragedy upon tragedy. but they're going to work very methodically before they release any information. with regard to the crime scene and what they're going to gather, they're going to release information so long as the information does not compromise their investigation. as i said, charles, they still don't know, a, if there was someone else involved in that shooting. they don't know if someone drove this person there, if this person walked there, they're going to be canvassing the neighborhood. they'll be looking at every vehicle in that area to see if there is a car that this individual possibly was

transported in and actually drove to. video footage very important. there are homes, there are businesses maybe in that area, or the synagogue itself, that had video footage that the police are going to be examining. they are going to gather the information as quick also as they could to get the information out to the public that the public needs. charles: i want to bring back in ted williams. ted, so from jacqui heinrich our fox reporter, apparently the shooter entered the synagogue and yelled "all jews must die". >> yeah, charles, it sounds like it very well could be a hate crime. i would have to believe what is happening throughout the united states right now is that law enforcement as a result of this are on a heightened state of alert at synagogues around their various communities because

there's a great deal of confusion right now. i think steve hit on it when he said that they are rae going to be looking at videos to see how this person got to the neighborhood, was there any accomplices and those are kind of things that they're trying to figure out right now. but i've got to tell you, this is a terrorist act. i don't care whether you look at it as middle eastern terrorist or domestic terrorists, when you go into a synagogue-- >> hold on one second. the former president of the synagogue. >> happened to 30 people and just adjacent to tree of life's service area congregation is in the rabbi's study room and they would have approximately 15 people in there. just all of these are just off the main entrance to the building.

>> we're hearing reports of people being found in an atrium and a basement. so the atrium is the entraps way area? >> there's a common atrium area where you could-- it's a central part of the building, it leads up to services, but often times there are people milling around in that area, either going to the ladies room, men's room or the coat room. if i'm a person that's walking past oakens and shady can i walk in freely? is there anyone that would greet me at the door or stop me? >> not typically on a day like today. the door is open. it's a religious service. you could walk in and out. only on the high holidays is there a police present at the entrance. >> you mentioned to me when you were president there, again, if you're just tuning in, you were the immediate past president. how big of a concern was security for you? >> it was a major concern for

me, for us. we were working with the department of homeland security to evaluate exit routes. i just spoke to our maintenance person who was able to get out because the doors were easily opened from the inside to allow him to get out of the building. but it was a major focus working with brad orsini, a securities expert. active shooter training, we were working with the other synagogues what to do if something horrific like this happened. >> who else have you talked to that was inside at the time of shooting and what have they told you so far. the main person, the one person i did speak to i know really well, the maintenance person, one of our maintenance people there, he's been there 25 years, he's usually a very cool and collected person. he was shaken. he saw one of our congregants down, and, but he knew he was in

the-- he was in the bathroom and he was able to get out of the building, again, because these exit doors were working well. and i just can't tell you how thankful i am just to have been that one piece-- that one task that homeland security told us to do. >> in the past you couldn't push through the exit doors? >> they weren't easily opened and they had safeties on them so they couldn't open either way, but now, he was able to get out. i mean, he could be alive because of this. >> where were you when you found out that this had occurred? >> i was heading up to the service. i'm there every-- i was there last night for service. i go up there around 10:00 and in the morning, and one of the vice-presidents that i work with on facilities now that i stepped down, he called-- he works for city emergency management and he said, he just got word that there's an active

shooter at tree of life, go up there and see if this is true and i tried to get up. i only live a block away from the synagogue and i tried to get up shady avenue. there was police cars everywhere, there were guns down, rifles. it was surreal. >> we first thought it was a training, a drill whenever it came over the police scanner. we thought we couldn't believe it. have you heard of any people victims inside or their positions or if you knew of them? >> no, i'm sure, i know everyone there. i know everybody in the building. i know that this -- i almost don't want to know, but i have to know the tragedy that occurred inside. >> what have you been talking with about with the other people that are past presidents or, you know, in a position of power within the jewish community here in squirrel hill? what has everybody been saying to you? >> all we had up until now, i called all the-- tried to call, i could reach,

but the other past presidents, i spoke to the current president, but we're all either not in the area or we were en route and we just couldn't get in there. i mean, i was walking, like i said i was walking up shady and all of a sudden to hear the shouts from the police officers, just get out of here. you knew it was not a drill. >> have you ever had issues in the past with people coming in, people suspicious in any way or did anything that caused you to be concerned? >> no, we've never had any threats. i will tell you, i've always had a very watchful eye because of what's going on in the current climate, you know, you see these bombs being mailed across the country and our security was really just that nobody's ever tried. you know, it was just a fact that nobody ever tried to do anything. because like most religious institutions we have an open door. >> i asked the ceo of the jewish federation the same question i'll ask you, can you describe

for people that are watching that aren't from pittsburgh that don't know squirrel hill, what this means for the squirrel hill community that they would be targeted in this manner? >> it just means that moving forward this is a real occurrence and that we need to learn from this. and you want to be proactive and do things -- in light of this happening, it will be a catalyst for more security in the future, i'm sure, across all congregations, all religious institutions because this is reality. >> you're glad if you hadn't done one thing which many would think is a simple security measure, who knows how many people used the exit doors to get out? >> right, it was something that i was listening to the walk through and listening to the homeland security experts, a lot of this comes down to ability to afford security, but to free up

a door, many times, is free. just use it. just-- and it doesn't cost anything. and we did it, and a guy that we love in the con-- augie could very well be alive because of it because when he went to use that door he got out of the building. >> he was not in the basement. are there ways to get out of the basement. >> yes, there are and a new light congregation, new light sanctuary in the lower floor of the building, they know the route to get out. >> what's next for you? >> next for me is going to be more training, saying this-- it's not when i get would get up in front of president and say this could happen. now it's like this did happen. we have to put forth efforts to secure our building and all the other leaderships across skwil hill and probably across the country are going to have to do the same. >> thank you for taking the time to talk with us. thank you. all right, we are going to send it back to you guys in the

studio. that was the immediate-- >> very, have he powerful statement. that was michael aisenberg, the immediate past president of tree of life synagogue and just remarkable. he did mention this th-- if this was one of the high holidays, there would have been security. and he said homeland security talked about the exit doors, they were functional. in fact, a beloved maintenance worker, augie, was able to escape in this matter. and the shooting threat, police confirmed that the threat is finished and it's now over. ted, do i still have you? >> yes. charles: just your thoughts. i thought it was remarkable. homeland security making suggestions because of the -- what's gone on in this country

in the last few years and saving perhaps many lives in this situation and as we go as a synagogue or be safe in places where we worship and send our kids to school. >> i have to take my hat off to homeland security and this person who was just interviewed from that synagogue who had the wherewithal to get with homeland security and for them to give them information on how to utilize those doors or to get in and out of there. but you know, i've got to tell you, charles, no matter how much you train or how well you train the public in these situations, when there's an active shooter coming into a building, there's a great deal of panic, unfortunately. but in this instance here, those doors may very well, based upon what they received or the information received from

homeland security, they may very well have saved lives, but as i've said to you earlier, this is definitely a terrorist act and it should be treated as one. and it very well may be treated now, also, as a hate crime. charles: right. >> so, motive is very significant and important. it is important, but it's also important for them to hold a press conference, a news conference because the city is now paralyzed and they're trying to try to determine what took place in that synagogue. law enforcement officers, i'm sure, will step up to the mic and have a press conference pretty soon here. charles: and by the way, to your point, i mentioned earlier that it was reporter that the shooter said "all jews must die" as he entered the synagogue, that was per a local affiliate. and that the governor is on the way to the scene.

pittsburgh steelers tweeting out our thoughts and prayers to those in the tragedy this morning in pittsburgh. we will continue to pray or everyone involved. >> the pittsburgh penguins tweeting, we are incredibly saddened to hear of this morning's tragedy at the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh. we send our thoughts prayers to all those affected. earlier, president trump sending out a tweet, watching the events unfoldening pittsburgh, pennsylvania. law enforcement on the scene. people in squirrel hill should remain sheltered, it looks like multiple fatalities, beware of active shooter. bless all. and there are numerous people who have been shot and perhaps hospitalized. quickly, when the show began in the very beginning we had a panel on civility and the role of everyone involved in the

nonsense and craziness in this country and it was nazi germany was brought up in a conversation and there was three panelists and i wanted to let the panelists get in and have the discussions. i'm remiss that i didn't push back harder on that. i think it's a despicable thing anytime we start to bring that into conversations that there's no moral equivalencesy with anything i'm searing on either political party that equates to nazi germany and i'm sick and tired of it being brought up. we had three panelist, but to push back. that was unnecessary and immediately after this, this happened. it's a hell of a message and a hell of a time for america to get its act together ap let's not stop thinking the worst of everyone because there are bad people in our midst and they do mean to do any of us harm and we see that again in this tragedy unfolding right before our very eyes in pittsburgh, pennsylvania where eight people are dead at

least, three people, three police officers were shot in the line of duty and thankfully, the situation has been resolved. the shooter is in custody. we had the commissioner of boston, the former commission of boston's police department, he made a great statement saying that the police showed tremendous restraint. imagine you respond to a scene and you see your colleagues gunned down, and you still have the restraint to bring in that shooter, apparently alive. i mean, that's just remarkable. we've been reminded so much this week how much we need to praise our law enforcement. ted, only a minute left. i'll let you give us the final thoughts on this because it's still a process to go. >> yeah, this is a very sad commentary, a very sad day here in this country. but, again, as you've just said, charles, and the commissioner said we need to take our hats off to law enforcement officers who ran towards danger to neutralize the scene, and to try

to do whatever they could to help the members of that congregation to get out there have safely. charles: michael aisenberg, the immediate pass president of the tree of life gave a remarkable interview, very calm, very poised, but you can feel the passion and the sadness as he spoke and he mentioned that at this particular synagogue although 9:45 shubot is the busiest of the week, there was no security. they have put in security on high holidays, maybe that becomes routine, unfortunately, maybe it will become routine and many of the polices we worship. we hope it doesn't, hope it doesn't have to, but that might be the answer, the so-called soft targets seem to be incredibly irresistible to the sick and evil amongst us. but, again, the homeland security heroic in this in the sense that they told the synagogue or suggested to them a long time ago, ma i c can --

make it easier for people to get out of there and they did. despite that eight people dead and three police officers shot. a horrific day in pittsburgh. leland vittert and gillian turner takes it from here. >> and a fox news alert as we look at images from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. the suburb there where police now say there are multiple fatalities after a shooter opened fire at a synagogue and police say they now have within suspect in custody. this unfolding over the past couple of hours on shubot, the jewish holy day at the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. 9:45 a.m. eastern is when services were set to begin there and shortly thereafter we started hearing initial reports of the shots being fired. continuing fox news coverage here from washington,