fox news channel, as well. jennifer griffin to be out there. chris wallace, fox news sunday. it will be a great event. a great weekend. >> sandra: can you give away -- >> bill: some good names, really important things going on in this country and around the world. >> sandra: we will be watching prethink you for joining us today. "outnumbered" starts now. >> harris: fox news alert, new guilty plea in the mueller investigation involving michael cohen as the president rips into his former personal attorney and fixer. you are watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. fox news contributor lisa boothe. host of "kennedy" on fox business, kennedy herself. in the center seat, for the first time, democratic strategist and former senior advisor to hillary clinton in south carolina, antjuan seawright. great to have you. >> antjuan: i feel really good. in the south we don't say "lucky," so i feel really blessed. >> harris: is the seat comfortable? >> good. >> harris: you aren't going to

bless his heart? left a mark [laughter] [laughter] we begin with a big div element in the rush investigation. michael cohen pleaded guilty in a manhattan federal court today. this morning. for lying to congress. the former personal attorney to the president admitted he made false statements to lawmakers about a plan to build a trump tower in moscow. cohen's plea, his lycan in the past four months, comes as part of a new deal with special counts counsel robert mueller's investigation. the senate until had this reaction to the guilty plea. >> there seems to be a trend, here, amongst so many of the president's closest allies. that they don't tell the truth. it also is just one more reinforcing indication of why

the mueller investigation has to be allowed to and continue come unimpeded. >> harris: president trump ripped into his former attorney and confidant just before leaving the white house for the g20 in argentina. watch it. >> he is a weak person, and what he is trying to do is get a reduced sentence. he is lying about a project that everybody knew about. we were very open about it. he's lying very civilly to get a reduced sentence. >> harris: there is lot to scoop up in the last half hour. let's go to chief intelligent correspondent catherine herridge in washington. catherine cust and hey, harris. earlier today we -- but tell mike about the moscow project, this is that the heart of today's court action where he said he lied to the skiers about the moscow proposal. as he left a new york court yesterday, he did not stop to take reporters 'questions in the drafter congress. he said negotiations over the moscow project ended in january of 2016, but he told the new york court today it was in fact in june of 2016.

in the draft, cohen said discussions of attempted travel to moscow was limited, that he never discussed it with then-candidate term, but he told the new york court today that the discussions were more extensive. a short time ago on capitol hill, the chairman in the ranking democrat of the senate intelligence committee who got this testimony from cohen in the first place reacte reacted. >> i'm not going to comment upon that. commentary of this individual, we have kept that confidential. obviously mr. cohen was one of the witnesses that we always wanted to have come back. that need to goes up. >> i haven't seen the specific indictment or the plea, but this is a reason people shouldn't lie when they are in front of a congressional investigation. >> in court, cohen said he made the statement to congress to keep up with political messaging and out of loyalty to then-candidate trump. a source close to the trump legal team questioned how the change in the timing or the

breadth of discussions about possible travel to moscow are material to a crime of collusion with russia, emphasizing that the this deal never came through. that's a fact the president picked up a short time ago. >> a bit of he was right, it doesn't matter. because i was allowed to do whatever i wanted during the campaign. i was running my business. a lot of different things, during the campaign. very simply, michael cohen is lying and he is trying to get a reduced sentence for things that have nothing to do with me. >> what we don't know is the specifics of the detail that cohen has now provided to the special counsel about this real estate project, as well as the extent of the discussions he had with then-candidate trump. there is still a lot of unknowns, but at least we can see what the basis was for the lying to federal investigators or to congress with cohen earlier today. >> harris: catherine,

thank you very much. let's bring it out to the couch. antjuan, where do you put all of this and what we know? a lot of people say "oh, it feels like things are kind of wrapping up." what do you think? >> antjuan: i think it's premature for anyone to speculate where this is going. the direction, or the speed. what i do know is that the president, once again, did what we know he always does, and that is lied about any association he may have had or has with russia. i would cast this as another page in the catalog of lies by the president. it's very unfortunate for, i think, his camp, that his personal attorney -- his most trusted legal advisor -- is now going down in flames. i'm from south carolina, we like to say "there is no interest like self interest." i just have to believe that cohen is going to do everything he can to protect himself through all this. that means tell the truth. >> harris: so, you believe michael cohen, who has lied about other things, talking about the president and being a witness?

i just want an answer for that first, and then we will move on. >> antjuan: yes, why would he have to lie at this point? >> harris: there are different points he believes him but he has a history of lying? >> antjuan: i never doubted what he knew and did not know. what i'm saying is, at this point, he's pretty much on his way to jail. he has no reason to lie. he has no reason to not do anything but cooperate and tell the truth. >> melissa: where'd you get in this of the president lied? michael may push back of the first thing you said. we are seeing that cohen was the mistaken or misreported or lied about the dates in which he had these conversations, when they were doing the deal. at about who may or may not travel. that is him lying. how do you get that is the president lying? >> antjuan: during the course of the campaign, what we heard from donald trump is that he had no business with russia, no interest with russia, et cetera. we heard that many times in the campaign trail. here we know they were trying to do some business deals in moscow. whether they did or not, there was an attempt. >> melissa: this was already known, though. a >> antjuan: we did not know

this. here's what we do know -- we know that democrats have beat the drum for a very long time about tax returns. this is why we have to dig a little further and find these things out. what we don't know. >> lisa: michael cohen has every reason to lie because he trying to strike a plea deal to save himself. he's not a credible witness, because he admitted he already lied. further, we know that trump has responded in the question similar and that they have been true, at least in what he has said previously. publicly. >> antjuan: do we know that? >> lisa: that's at least what we know now or what has been reported. i also think it's important for people to give pause when we get new information about russia. we have seen so many things be incorrect. one of the things is being run now about one of the things the president responded to regarding questions over the ukraine platform change to the g.o.p. there is a great write up about this, actually, that the platform was strengthened regarding ukraine. mentioned and there is one that we are going to respond to russia the same way to the

soviet union. also talking about armed assistance to the ukraine. as president, president trump is to mike reversed and obama policy. he has been stronger and russia than president obama. >> antjuan: a very logical standpoint. >> lisa: is exactly what i just laid out. >> antjuan: do you think -- somebody on his way to jail will continue to live this point? >> lisa: 100%. >> antjuan: maybe i'm on pluto somewhere. speaker you have other witnesses and those who have been targets and subjects within this investn who have said "mueller's team is putting a certain squeeze on us to say things in a particular way for a particular outcome." what they are implying is that they are kind of guided to lie or stretch the truth in a way that's more convenient to mueller and the outcome that he wants. that would be -- you would

assume, to shorten one's prison sentence. that's what paul manafort supposedly did when he entered a plea deal with robert mueller. and mueller 'esteem is now saying "he went back on his work, he's been lying about stuff, and manafort has been saying he was instructed to live. and he wouldn't do that. it's all very confusing. it seems that mueller has some very specific systems in place to get what he wants out of these people who are slippery to begin with. i will certainly give you that. but that doesn't mean -- >> harris: that's interesting. >> kennedy: it doesn't mean you can all of the sudden connects these dots that magically lead to russia affecting the outcome of the 2016 campaign, therefore, the president is going to be -- >> harris: let me jump in, antjuan. i want to respond to something that kennedy just that which is interesting. as of late we have been hearing the president say there were other people that the mueller investigation or investigators could have talked with. many people who would have given a different perspective, more

perspective, or whatever. but the people who have been chosen are in a spot. it's what candice has, they are sloppy. they are shady prelet me finish. they have shadiness in their history and with paul manafort we have lawbreaking in his history. those people are easier to put the squeeze on. they have been investigating manafort for a very long time. yet, extrapolate what you want from him. you extract it, you ask triplett, and then you try to use it in another investigation. what does he do? what does it do on the presidential level, he could potentially be pardoned. what counted this one by saying he's guilty in a state court makes a more complete it. because the president can touch that. kennedy's point -- what is cohen's bottom line customer he said, self interest. that's what he would live. >> antjuan: again, from a practical common sense standpoint -- >> harris: i think i'm pretty -- >> antjuan: no, no, listen. >> harris: be careful throwing

out around on the couch to wome women. >> kennedy: costa lee changing her story, when you decide that that strain is the truth and that one is a virulent lied? >> harris: how do you know which lane i want to drive down? >> antjuan: all i'm saying is that -- let's just say he's got a potential of five years or ten years. if he continues to like but i could turn it to 20. you think is going to continue to live through this process? >> he already lied. >> antjuan: what i'm saying he's he won't further lied. >> harris: ten, 15, 20, or federal. yes. because he can attract, in that venue, potentially. the >> antjuan: there is no logical reason for him to live. >> lisa: bingo. >> harris: it's a blow set. it >> antjuan: harris, there are people that have gone down tesco >> kennedy: he lies, lies, lies, lies committee holds the bible high! >> antjuan: i'm not saying --

it seems like antjuan's right, he's just outnumbered. [laughter] >> harris: that's a good one. >> harris: in a new interview, the president is not ruling out a pardon for his former 2016 campaign chair, paul manafort. we will fold him essential into conversation. stepping up his criticisms of the mueller investigation. we will continue this debate later in the hour. plus, the president right now is headed to the g20 summit. he just canceled his planned meeting with out them impute in there and, meanwhile, a growing number of senators slamming the white house's response to saudi arabia. after the death of columnist jamaal khashoggi. what is the potential effect of all this question marks to clos close. >> why are you meeting with the crown prince kristin america ♪ higher! higher!

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argentina. the trip comes amid growing pushback over white house support of saudi arabia in the aftermath of the murder of columnist jamal khashoggi. the cia has reportedly assessed with high confidence that the crown prince of saudi arabia ordered the killing, and as you just heard, the president is not planning to meet with the crown prince. meanwhile, a bipartisan group of senators rebuked the white house yesterday after they received a classified briefing on the khashoggi killing. many senators were upset that cia director gina haspel was not there. here is a republican lindsey graham, who blow dubke like a probably through support behind the resolution cover seeking to pull military support for saudi arabia. >> i change my mind, because i'm pissed. the way they handled saudi arabia then is not acceptable. the briefing today did not help me at all better understand the role that mbs played in killing jamal khashoggi. institutionally, we have a right

to be briefed. how can i make an informed decision as united states senator about whether or not the crown prince is complicit in a murder if i don't have that intelligence that i read about in the paper? that's not acceptable for me. >> melissa: kennedy, i would ask you -- we don't actually know what the u.s. response is, though. talking about how we should be tougher and stronger. we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. we don't know what conversations are going on with the actual king of saudi arabia right now. these -- the crown prince's future. >> kennedy: it's funny, because the oftentimes project the way we live and our politics and our culture on other countries. here, if you were in charge and you ordered the murder of a journalist, you would be removed from power. that's not necessarily the case in saudi arabia, that is not going to happen. we also don't know what the facts are, linking mbs to this killing. but, when you have the cia director come out and say "yeah, i'm pretty certain that he

ordered this whole thing," i don't blame the senators for their frustration because they want access to that intelligence. or, at least a briefing from the director herself, who can lay out this case. it's incredible problematic. but this is not the first thing that saudi arabia has ever done that should raise the ire of the united states. when lindsey graham and other senators talking pulling funding, we are not involved in a proxy war in yemen where civilians are dying and we are, by proxy, culpable there. i think that should be applauded. i would much rather see discussions like that, where we pull back on any sort of military interference. >> harris: can i just also add -- since you brought up gina haspel -- there was that go back and forth not only with lindsey graham but with other senators on the hill yesterday, "why didn't we hear from the cia director? was there something that we weren't supposed to hear that my point a finger to the crown prince or not?" and senator john kennedy of louisiana told me last night that what he was learning on the hill yesterday -- and this is per him, only -- gina haspel

enter crew had some concerns about things leaking. there might be -- in that case, even bigger, right question wreck national security. not just their own. but for all of us. you're giving me that side eye, that my 11 euro gives me sometimes. [laughter] because what you are wanting is absolute conversation with the cia director about that. i don't know that we will gain that. but senator kennedy said that he wanted to hear from her, too. they all did. that may be coming down the pik pike. >> antjuan: the good news about this, sending a message of the executive branch is a bipartisan effort. i think that says a lot particularly with the tone and temperature in washington, d.c. what i'm most disappointed in his the white house responds to all this. look, this goes beyond -- this should go beyond trumps personal dealings, izzy if you had any h saudi arabia. this should go beyond the politics. this should be about sending a message about these things not

being the future. >> melissa: my point is, we don't know what they white house response was. we don't know with the conversation -- we don't know -- >> antjuan: the posture from the president about the so far. >> melissa: that's it, you've seen posture. you don't know what actually has gone back and forth between them. you don't know about the conversation. you don't know what's been pulled back. we do know this, though. switching gears a little bit. he did cancel his meeting with vladimir putin at the g20, speaking of despots around the world. this was the tweet. based on the fact that the ships and sailors have not been returned to ukraine from russia, i have decided it's best for all parties concerned to cancel the previously scheduled meeting in argentina with president vladimir putin. i look forward to a meaningful summit again, as soon as the situation is resolved." good move? >> lisa: 100%. i agree with president of not meeting with putin regarding this. as i mentioned earlier, president trump reversed president obama's policy of not providing lethal aid to ukraine.

president trump has done that. again, another player president trump has been strong on russia. regarding saudi arabia, i do think that the senate's action is a strong rebuke against president trump in regard to yemen. in the saudi-led effort there. that being said, i don't think it's going to deter president trump in his administration and their policy regarding saudi arabia. i think, namely, at least regarding yemen, it's all about al qaeda and the arabian peninsula. and the concern of threat of terror there as well as isis. >> harris: those two things are side-by-side. so, the legislation will not have the terrorist movement that we are trying to sort in it. they will be side-by-side. what the centers will be considering, and house numbers two, will be considering a situation that streamlines this to all of the other things that they think they can control, that proxy war on the ground. our input and that, so on and so forth. going after al qaeda and the arabian peninsula, will not be

stopped. that's what will has been cleay senators. >> kennedy: my understanding is that we should be supporting the saudis efforts in yemen due to also a qap and the terrorist efforts as well. that's why he says. >> melissa: to be continued, for sure. the president calling his former person personal attorney a liar, after michael cohen copped a new plea deal with special counsel mueller. andrew napolitano joins us next to break down what this could mean. plus, paul manafort -- president trump says he's not ruling out a pardon. look at the follow-up be from such a move question might be able to pay that. >> it's very sad what happened to paul, the way he's mentoring tell mike being treated. i've never seen anybody being treated so poorly. ♪ this morning. hey dad.

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>> very simply, michael cohen is lying and he is trying to get a reduced sentence for things that have nothing to do with me. >> harris: that's more than president trump outside the white house today, reacting to the news that his former attorney, michael cohen, has cut a new plea deal in the mueller investigation. : pleading guilty this morning to lying to congress about a trump organization real estate project in moscow. here is michael cohen, leaving the federal courthouse in new york city, new york, city a few hours ago. let's bring in the fox news senior judicial analyst, andrew napolitano. we saw from the video, it happen. what happened, judge? >> apparently, michael cohen and his lawyers had been negotiating that with bob newly but with federal prosecutors here in new york city. for, as the president said, a reduced sentence in return for something. we don't know what the something is. so, he pleaded guilty to lying to a senate investigator about who he saw in moscow, what he went therefore, in what he

said to them. the president says this is about a hotel project he was going to build, which he seriously contemplated building. on which he changed his mind. has nothing whatsoever to do with the campaigner with his presidency. we don't know what michael cohen told the prosecutors in return for them agreeing to a reduced sentence. we may find that out, we may never find it out. >> harris: judge, is the president right when he says that in the lead up to the election he could do whatever he wanted in terms of business dealings? just like any other business person? >> yes, he's quite correct. we really don't know what michael cohen told the prosecutors he was in moscow for. he was ostensibly in moscow on a perfectly legitimate business deal, the building of trump tower moscow, which never have been. >> harris: if it was perfectly legitimate, why would he like us to mark your head. >> who nice or he would why.

he told a federal judge this morning the reason he lied was to stay on political message. whatever that means. i guess he is saying that of the time he lied, he thought he would help the president by lying. obviously, that is not the case. >> melissa: judge, the question of the day so far, since you've heard this -- and we have heard catherine herridge ask it, as well -- how does this materially change what has happened, any case someone would have against the president? if cohen lied about the timing of when they were talking about this building deal we all knew about, or he lied about the extent to which someone was going to travel, who was going to travel -- do we have in-depth discussions about possibly traveling, or do we not really talk about somebody possibly traveling to do a meeting of the deal? how is that materially impacting something that could be conceived of as illegal? >> i wish i knew.

[laughs] i wish i had knowledge of what bob mueller and the prosecutors here in new york city have, melissa, but obviously we don't. typically, when a person is given a very good deal -- and the president is right, he's got a serious reduction in exposure to jail time -- it's for what they have already told the prosecutors. we don't know what he has already told the prosecutors. but, i will tell you this -- the easiest charge for the government to prove his conspiracy. conspiracy is an agreement to do something wrong, even if the something wrong never happened. so, was michael cohen's trip to moscow part of some agreement or series of agreements to do something wrong for the campaign? if that's the case, then we would have to hear or see what michael cohen told the prosecutors, whatever it was it was enough to ask them to lower the jail time considerably. >> harris: antjuan seawright is on fire to ask a question. antjuan? >> antjuan: judge, do you

really think that at this point, in the investigation, that somehow or another special prosecutor is going in the wrong direction? that seems to be the temperature from the right, that we need to shut this down. it has nothing to do with anything. do you really think is going in the wrong direction at three he's going? >> not at this stage in the game, antjuan. i happen to agree with you on that. i will also say, i understand the inpatients that a lot of my friends and colleagues have been expecting. they have not been involved in this case it, not the one involving the president. prosecutors don't always get evidence in an orderly fashion, and they don't always get evidence from credible people. michael cohen -- the president right, he's not a credible person. he has twice pleaded guilty to crimes of deception. the bank fraud, and lying to congressional investigators. >> kennedy: judge, it's candy. that was my question i had for you. how does special counsel decide what aspects of michael cohen's

story to believe, or any of these witnesses, when they know that they have lied? >> great question prayed when they can corroborate what he told them. just like they are using -- >> harris: they can corroborate alive? >> cooperate whatever he told them in return for the reduced sentence. justice palmetto forgive them information, we don't know what, but they haven't put them on the sand. but he's a veteran liar. they will use whatever men manat told them or what cohen told him with evidence like emails or phone calls or text messages. >> lisa: is a need that information usable if he's a liar and not credible? >> melissa: if you back it out, it is. >> my suggestion is that what the government, with the prosecutors are trying to prove, is a conspiracy. a conspiracy is a series of agreements. a series of agreements means a number of jigsaw puzzles -- i'm going to guess that michael cohen gave them a few pieces in

one of the jigsaw puzzles, and to give it to them before this morning or they wouldn't have under that agreement. what those pieces were, we don't know and we may not know, lisa, until this stuff is laid out by bob mueller. >> melissa: thank you. president trump saying he's not taking the possibility of a pardon from his former campaign chair, paul manafort come off the table. manafort has been convicted of multiple counts of fraud in conjunction with his work as a political consultant and you gain. in ukraine. he talked about this morning as he left the lettuce for g20 summit. watch. >> it's very sad, what's happened to paul. the way he is being treated. i've never seen anybody treated so poorly. i said i have not offered any pardon, and i think they asked, would you? i said i'm not taking anything off the table. >> melissa: "the wall street journal" reports that men afford lied to investigators about his personal financial dealings with ukraine, resulting in special counsel robert mueller revoking manafort

'his plea deal. in the meantime, jerome corsi -- an associate of trump ally roger stone -- has ceased cooperating with mueller and now claimed that mueller bus trips pressured him to live. he has asked his legal team to bring apart all micro criminal complete against mueller and the justice department. that's a very interesting wrinkle. >> lisa: advocates consistent with the michael phone situation, as well, according to the fbi said, believe that michael flynn had -- did not lie. as soon as robert mueller took over, he pled guilty to lying. that raises questions to me, in the tactics of mueller regarding any sort of pardon for manafort i think it would be the wrong decision to make. clearly, manafort has violated the law and has done so for quite some time. i question why the fbi never relayed that information to president trump, considering that they sat down with him, i

believe, in 2013 as well as 2014. you would think that would be pertinent information. especially when they told and finds that she was a chinese sp spy. >> kennedy: she certainly does have some colorful practices. which i really pretty. jerome corsi is now a public thorn in mueller 'side. is giving information to the press, which isn't leaking because it's so over it. it. it has to be really frustrating for mueller. at the same time, we are getting bits of information from muelle mueller's side, because there is division within that camp about to proceed with some of the presidents answers. we are seeing in the press some of the answers in writing, that the president has given to special counsel. the whole thing is now so odd, and there are so many personalities that are connected in the strangest ways that you just sit here every day and you -- it's like a crazy spy novel. you don't know how it's going to end up, or how it's going to

test the future limits of special counsel. >> antjuan: the good news about all of this is that we have to be patient and wait. [laughs] >> melissa: that's not good news! i don't like being patient, that's not good news! nobodies being patient! >> antjuan: even better news is that they're been almost zero leaks about what's going on in the camp. the thing i'm hopeful about, particularly -- speak a word of those answers come from? >> the thing whom thinking about is measures in place to protect the special prosecutor. the work is done, so he can finish his work. at the end of those of the dayt plans out whether he's guilty or innocent, i think we have done our job in the special prosecutor has done his job. that's what 70% of american people want. >> harris: we've got to go. >> melissa: all right. president trump says if democrats make good on their threats to launch investigations of his administration, he will punch back.

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call 1-877-423-5732. ♪ >> lisa: welcome back. president trump reportedly threatening to declassify fisa warrant applications and other documents from the mueller probe if house democrats launch investigations against him and his administration when they take control of the house next year. the president to telling "the new york post," if they go down the presidential harassment track, if they want to go and harass the president and the administration, i think that would be the best thing that would happen to me. i'm a counterpunch. i will hit them so hard if they've never been like that. "this after they call the president to declassify justice berman documents they feel will undercut. the term could pay an advisor to memos on duty official bruce

ohr's interactions with christopher steele, the author of the controversial trumped lc. i'm going to start with you, kennedy. we know with recent documents that congress had obtained with bruce ohr that christopher steele was worried about comey's iron, he was worried they would be exposed. is president trump keeping these documents leverage against an incoming democrat-controlled house? >> kennedy: yes. that part, i disagree with. i don't think it should be used as a form of political extortion. i think we should get in the habit of releasing these things getting to to peer into the process of fisa application -- warrant applications. i think it's really critical. there's so much we don't know, and so much left up to the imagination, which leads to ulcers of conspiracy theories and conjecture. and demagoguery on both sides. it also adds to this already-toxic environment. we have to come up with a better process, and there are so many outstanding questions. as adam schiff talks about conflict of interest and

appearance of russian collusion, you could apply those exact same words to the gathering of the dossier and who christopher steele might've spoken to at the behest of a political campaign and a national political committee. >> lisa: antjuan, do you think this will deter the democrats in their investigation at all? >> antjuan: know, the president is behaving immaturely and has conducted himself like -- coat the congress has the responsibility, the legislative branch has a responsibility to perform checks and balances. >> lisa: is that what congress is doing right now? question makes me sick this congress did not -- >> lisa: the congress, the fbi. that -- >> antjuan: here's my message to my democratic friends in the congress -- do not spend all of your time slowing down the congress investigation after investigation. be strategic and be mindful and the thought. instead, focus on legislation. do the things that got them to the majority. and don't get caught in this

narrative of back and forth with trump. but also make sure you hold them accountable along the way. >> harris: this will be interesting to see -- eric swalwell of california told me yesterday they will be an investigating and legislating. he thinks they can do both. walk and talk, i know, it is the mantra of the democrats. walk and talk. but you finally have part of the leadership in washington back. is that really where you want to push her powder? >> antjuan: harris, there's an old song i like to sing. "it takes you to make a thing go right" [laughter] i think they can do both. i think they can investigate and legislate. but i think the investigation part has to be strategic. i don't think they can just investigate it day after day, time after time. to be when you're going to need a bullhorn to tell your friends that. >> antjuan: or twitter! [laughs] >> lisa: to antjuan's point, you got democrats gearing up to and launch in this occasion

after investigation. the been critical of the republicans doing oversight into the fisa warrant against carter page and into the fbi's actions. what you make of that? >> melissa: i think it's interesting that the left has the same suspicion and frustration about paul manafort and papadopoulos and all of these meetings that the right has frustration and suspicion about the dossier. it's ironic that both sides don't see that they are both angry and frustrated and curious and may be fearful about basically the same thing. when trump talks about d classifying, and other sources and methods, is the same people that call for him to just go testify until the truth and hang everything out there. i don't know how you solve any of it, but people need to start start -- >> lisa: when you solve it by transparency, and president trump getting all this information out -- >> kennedy: nobody wants to apply the golden rule. >> lisa: what's the golden rule? >> kennedy: exactly.

"do unto others --" >> lisa: how do you know not kw that question marks be when i thought the golden rule was to shop with coupons! >> kennedy: the point is, if you don't like the idea that they could use hyde-smith warrants against a political opponent that you are aligned with, you should like it when your side -- >> antjuan: i don't know who all these -- >> kennedy: it's not okay. that'll aspect of government has gotten so big and so mysterious and so opaque, and we have to shrink it and make it clear like the bikini i wore on prom night. [laughter] >> antjuan: i don't know who all these democrat's are. >> melissa: you were a bikini on prom night? >> antjuan: they have to do their job. [laughter] >> lisa: we've got to get going. >> antjuan: [laughs] >> harris: oh, my goodness

gracious. >> lisa: confident that nancy pelosi still faces a big hurdle in her quest to become speaker, whether of the wily veteran lawmaker can pull off the deal and reclaim the speakers gavel. that's next. >> i'm talking about scores of members of congress who just gave me a vote, are giving me a vote of confidence. that is where our focus is. are there dissenters? yes. but i expect a powerful vote as we go forward. ♪ you always pay your insurance on time.

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♪ >> our diversity is our strength, but our unity is our power. underneath that power, again, in a unifying way, for our country. i'm very proud. we look forward to the results, whatever they were. they will be intense and they will be a vote of confidence sending my name to the floor. i am proud to be the nominee of the house democratic caucus. once again, for speaker of the house. >> kennedy: she's just a peach. a little bruised, but that's okay. nancy pelosi declaring a big victory for a party after a majority of house democrats buckled to pick her as speaker. 203 democrats voted for her, but

32 voted no. congresswoman pelosi needs to win over more than a dozen of those nonvotes to win speakership when the full house votes in january. so, antjuan, we have spoken about this many times. i don't think she is a shoo-in. right now she wouldn't have the votes if it were held on the floor. if some other ordinary members gain a little competence, they could block that in the near friend jim clyburn would be speaker of the house. perhaps rightly so. >> antjuan: there is a lesson that all this for everyone who does not know nancy pelosi. when you count her out, she will always teach you that you do not know how to count. that is proof in the pudding. she received more votes in the caucasus treated then paul ryan did in his caucus not too long ago when he was nominated. >> kennedy: he's another gem. [laughter] >> antjuan: when all is said and done, she will be speaker and make history once again. you will see a different posture and tone from nancy pelosi that you've never seen before, i think. >> lisa: like what? [laughter]

>> kennedy: telus. >> antjuan: i know i'm outnumbered, but at least let me get my thought out! i think you will see her shift from campaign nancy to governing nancy to keep the majority. as i sit on this program, particularly on your show, it's one thing to get to the majority and there's another one to keep the majority. i think she has an obligation to those new members who won the swing districts to not buffet up. >> lisa: but she did a good job messing it up, so to speak, as they netted 63 seats. i think what will be interesting, i'm getting the popcorn out and looking for watching, nancy pelosi -- is she trying to wrangle her caucus? not only will she have problems with the modern members signing the letter saying they won't support her, but she will have problems with this growing progressive caucus. i want to sit back and enjoy the show. i think it will be a lot of fun. >> harris: can i jump in here for one second was to mark you and i have been talking about this. let's just be open.

>> antjuan: you get me out of the conversation prayed [laughter] >> harris: you can't be in every conversation! lord. she opened that cookie jar and started giving out the cookies prayed when she you get confident enough in the last 24 hours and it was reported publicly that she was willing to let some of her members in jeopardy for the next time around vote against her so they can say "i told you i would vote against her and i did!" it doesn't tap her height at all to let a few people say no. what she cannot stand for is anybody running against her. so, as i've had it explained to me, by democrat members of the house and senate, they are going to watch a situation in the house where they can either vote for nancy pelosi or vote for a republican. they are never going to be in a position where they have to make a binary choice within the party. that's what we call in the south -- because i'm from the south, too -- cheating. [laughter] >> antjuan: that means they get caught. >> harris: they did get

caught. where does that leave the lung don't like younger members of the party? >> kennedy: we are running out of time, i want to bling dell might bring those in here. you got ten seconds. >> antjuan: i care about maintaining majority. we will sue for this to congress, a robust apology addenda -- >> kennedy: speaking of robust, we have more "outnumbered" in just a moment! is a good alright, i brought in ensure max protein...

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time here? >> i think this couch has my name on it. >> we are back here at noon tomorrow. for now, here's harris. >> harris: fox news alert, michael cohen pleading guilty to a new criminal charge today in the mueller investigation. as president trump as never being into his former longtime attorney and confident. this is "outnumbered overtime," i'm harris faulkner. today's big stander, michael cohen pleading guilty in a manhattan federal court to lying to congress. the former personal attorney to the president has admitted he made false payments to lawmakers about building a trump tower in moscow. his plea, his second in the four months, comes as part of and do you deal with counsel robert mueller in the new investigation into interference in the presidential election. president trump what dr. cohen before leaving for the g20. >> he was convicted of various things unrelated to us. he was given a