deciding factor in every part of the student life. >> martha: an interesting battle. christopher, thank you for coming on. good to have you with us. >> absolutely. >> martha: that is our story this evening. i'll see you 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning alongside bret baier for live coverage of the funeral services for president george h.w. bush. tucker is up next. ♪ >> tucker: good evening. welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." for more than a year now the media storyline in immigration has been as mindless and predictable as a jim acosta script. talking points never change. it doesn't matter what the story is. it could be the vary can or the family separation, sanctuary cities or ms-13. details are irrelevant. immigration is always good. whether it's legal or not. because immigrants are always good.

ed it -- it doesn't matter where they come from or what they have done before. they're the heart of america. they are impressive and much more impressive than actual americans, most of whom are fat and racist. that is jim acosta's position. or it was. other channels are suddenly less eager to talk about immigration and de-emphasizing the issue. why is that? part of the problem may be the caravan which actually exists and is in tijuana, mexico, right now. now this should be good news for mexico. if you believe what they have been telling us on tv. if there is one thing we know for certain about the penniless central american immigrants they tend to found a huge number of wildly successful tech startups at the heart of the economy. yet the citizens of the tijuana don't appear to have gotten this message because they don't seem grateful to the caravan. instead they look annoyed that the city is invaded by strangers. the city's mayor noted if

people enter your country illegally, many of them are criminals. >> the people came, they are coming in violently. disrespectfully. not as good law-abiding citizen. that is what hurts us. it's not all of them. but a lot of them are not really nice people. who want to work, who want to integrate to our economy. they are just trouble-makers. >> tucker: a lot of them are not really nice people. they're trouble-makers. imagine an american mayor saying that on television. it got more intense from there. last night on this show, a tijuana city councilman told us the government had to intervene recently to keep mexican citizens and the caravan members from throwing rocks at each other. watch. >> we have to bring them over here because the neighbors from that part of town is like tijuana by the sea. they were getting mad. they started throwing stones

at each other. so we had them here. things got out of hand because it kept growing and growing. >> tucker: throwing rocks at immigrants. that doesn't happen in this country. it does happen in mexico, though. people who live in tijuana are not american. so they haven't been told that expressing their honest use of immigration will get you fired so they had no problem saying what they really think. what they think is very much like what donald trump really thinks. listen. >> should the caravan have been stopped at the gall mall mall -- guatemalan border? >> yes. of course. 100% i agree with that. the people have bad people. >> because they don't belong here, they are just migrants but it's like the same case when mexican migrants going to the u.s., they are undocumented. >> you know of instances here in tijuana and in other cities that some of the people coming

in with the caravans are committing crimes. this is not about racism. we don't dislike a certain group of people because they are from one country or another. we're here because the government has not taken control of these, what we call invasions. >> tucker: if you are cnn or msnbc or nbc news or abc what do you do with an interview like that? you can't put it on the air because it doesn't make sense according to rules you've established. you can't argue that mexicans are anti-hispanic racists. that is what you call everyone else who is opposed to immigration. what do you do? you pretend none of this is happening. it's not real. that is what they are doing. but it won't work forever. people tend to notice obvious things. they can't help it. if they keep noticing obvious things the views change. that is why the consensus on immigration is changing fast. even hillary clinton and john kerry recently warned mass immigration can destabilize countries as it has done in

europe. they are right. it's happening here, too. the new analysis of the census data shows that 63% of the noncitizens in this country receive some kind of welfare benefits. that is not what they told you but numbers from the census. even the legal citizens, ones two have become suths fully half are on the government assistance. that is well above the native average. leaving aside the moral considerations, does it work as a math question? it wouldn't work as a country with infinite resources. is america a country with infinite resources? look around. every night hundreds of thousands of our citizens, americans, sleep outdoors on the street. they are homeless. the country's middle class is shrinking and dying younger for the third year in a row. again, these are american citizens. some of them probably think they should have first dibs on he from the government but they are not getting it. looking forward, here is a question that no one is

considering. will the mass immigration we're watching make the country richer or poorer? the majority of the immigrants have only a high school education or less. many know very little english and some none at all. that was a difficult problem to solve a 100 years ago in the first wave of immigration but consider what it means now when automation is killing sectors of the economy. how are the immigrants with the low levels of education and low levels of english supposed to succeed in an increasingly high-tech, skills-based economy? by the way, how about our own vulnerable workers. do they benefit from the presence of the immigrants? these are real questions. critical questions that washington should think about deeply and answering. but washington isn't thinking about them. and they can't answer them. so instead they are trying to ban the conversation from taking place. we'll try again anyway to have it. louis miranda the former d.n.c. communications director and joins us tonight.

thank you for coming on. >> thank you, tucker. i appreciate the opportunity to have an honest conversation on this. particular particularly, as we are -- particularly, as we are remembering george h.w. bush who taught us we can disagree on some of these issues. i went to the capitol after leaving the studio to see him. i took the kids. that is something we talk about. there are different perspectives on the issues but we can talk about them respectfully. what you laid out brings up legitnate issues. the question is -- >> tucker: hold on. that is what i like about what is happening in tijuana. i feel deeply for the people of tijuana. i think they are going through what a lot of americans have gone through. but because it is tijuana and it is mexico we can't dismiss them as anti-hispanic. we have to look for clearly at what the concerns are. so my question to you is simple one. looking at the concerns we just played on tape, those are real, does it make you a little more empathetic toward our fellow americans who have similar feelings? >> i think we have to be

empathetic all around here and that includes people who have legitimate concerns. but a lot of the concerns are stoked without a basis of reality. here is the problem that a lot of the immigrants that are part of the caravan are decent people fleeing violence or economic situations that are untenable. but they are victims all around because they are being victimized by the human traffickers and the smugglers that want to take advantage of them. >> tucker: i agree with that. >> there is an a.p. analysis that came out that 4,000 of the people disappeared in the last few years on the way. >> tucker: yes. >> in other words, the family has no idea what happened to them. they either got murdered or -- >> right. >> or worse along the way. so there is a legitimate humanitarian crisis of people taken advantage of. >> tucker: i agree with that. i totally agree. but i want to shine the light on the victims who don't get representation of any kind in the press. those are the citizens who are having to absorb large populations of -- i agree with you, largely decent people. i think most migrants want what i want.

a better life for their family. i get it. >> that is right. >> tucker: i have always thought that. but hold on. it's important to emphasize as deeply with the citizens who lives are being up-ended by the arrival of the immigrants as the up grants themselves -- as the immigrants themselves. if you see this, can you say the american citizens say i don't want immigration. we have had more than we can handle. they are not just racists. they have a point. >> they are not racists but it's important to understand the other side that immigrants made our economy stronger over the years. let me add color to what you said in the beginning. the population is aging. we have baby boomers retiring. a lot of the people we are able to replace in the economy are because of immigration. we want to do that ideally in a legal and an orderly fashion. >> tucker: can i stop you there and ask a question. >> no, no. hold on. >> tucker: i need to ask this question. you say our population is aging. we are not reproducing ourselves. why do you think that is?

nobody seems to pause and ask why can't young americans afford to get married and have children, afford to buy homes and cars and the solution is we'll bring in new people. what about the americans, the young people, the 30-year-old american who can't afford to have kids? does anybody care about that person? maybe there is a real problem -- i never hear that person addressed ever. >> it's an industrialized country. >> tucker: i'm an american. hold on. i'm an american. so my concern is for my fellow americans. and they can't afford to have children. but rather than fix their problems or even think about them we are like we'll just import new children. isn't that a backward way approach it? >> we should do both. in the last ten years american companies and stocks outperformed the rest of the world by a lot. the american economy has been so strong in the last ten years compared to anything else in the world. part of the reason for that is we have an economy that is constantly renewing itself. so we absolutely should be able to have an economy where people who want to have

children can do so. but it doesn't mean we don't -- >> tucker: but hold on. no, no. you just said we need to bring in people because americans aren't reproducing in sufficient numbers. my question is why aren't the leaders thinking about how our people can afford to have children? they don't even consider that a subject worth studying. much less trying to fix. it's like oh, well, they are not having enough kids. why don't we care enough? >> those are not mutually exclusive things. >> tucker: you are saying the low birthrate is justification for immigration. i'm saying it's a tragedy that says something about the economy and selfish stupidity of the leaders. >> the growth and the prosperity enabled us to have a stronger economy. there is definitely both sides to this where you can look at well work will be hurt? if you look at states like georgia and the others implemented anti-immigrant measures that force a lot of the immigrants out, what you saw was food rotting on the

vines. a lot of lost crops because there weren't enough people there to work them. so the reality is that we can both do something about this for people who are suffering. and who are american and who have lived there their whole lives and want to have children and do better than their parents. >> tucker: maybe someone should care about them a little bit. >> absolutely. >> tucker: the most important thing. >> it doesn't mean we have to demonize immigrants who are legitimate -- >> tucker: i'm not demonizing anybody. i'm not against the immigrants. i'm for the americans. nobody cares about them. they are like shut up, we will replace you. you hope you come back. i enjoyed the conversation. >> likewise, tucker. thank you. >> tucker: the mueller investigation appears to be approaching some kind of climax. as the special prosecutor plans to drop new information on michael flynn and other key targets of the probe. michael flynn, what? brit hume will be here to explain what it means for the administration and the rest of us. stay tuned.

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senior political analyst, brit hume. thanks for coming on tonight. michael flynn. let me ask the overview question first and explain the michael flynn portion to me. does anything you have seen touch directly on contact with collusion with russia? >> nothing that i've seen has, tucker. i must say, i have reached the point that we've seen so many of those moments when something gets subpoenaed or somebody pleads guilty to some process crime like, you know, lying to the fbi or whatever. people extrapolate from that that mueller is on the verge of the big one that is going to tell the tale of president trump's malfeasance. it's never happened. the investigation drags on. i was sort of of the view that trump, that everybody was misreading all of this. that what was happening here is

mueller was carrying out his original mandate. his original mandate was primarily to take over a counter intelligence investigation that was about what the russians did. that's what comey was doing at the fbi. when he got fired. that's what mueller was named to take over. it was at -- if you look back at the statement that was made by rod rosenstein in naming mueller, it says he's to take over the investigation that comey had announced was going on in his congressional testimony when we became aware that this fbi inquiry was underway. that was a counter intelligence investigation. he adds that he was authorized as well to look into the question of whether there was collaboration between the trump campaign and moscow. well, fine. so we knew that was going on. it has never been the case as far as i could tell looking at the documents that the principle focus was this collusion question.

so mueller has proceeded, ends up indicting russians that will never see trial. but the russians is a big part of what he was up to, which made sense to me. this latest stuff, i don't know what to make of it. i would unwind it if i could. every twist and turn is being hyped as the prelude to the big break-through, the big bomb shell that has never come. >> tucker: i ask you about michael flynn. his name has been out of the headlines over a year. am i misremembering it or did michael flynn plead to lying? basically to a crime that arose in the course of the investigation and his life was destroyed, he had to sell his house. he's still unemployed. did he do something else i forgot about? >> nothing that i know of. michael flynn was supposed to have not told the truth to some fbi agents interviewing him. that's what he was charged with impossibly in the hope by

charging him with that and being prepared to sentence him, he would then, you know, spill the beans on what was really going on between trump and russia. it seems to have turned out that he didn't have any beans to spill. and not only that, tucker, it's very hard to see where any of this is going. when you see people being investigated and prosecuted for crimes that didn't happen until after the investigation got started, you begin to stop and say, wait a minute. what are we doing here? this is what -- you remember karl rove was pursued remorselessly by special prosecutor patrick fitzgerald about the fameless valerie plain cia leak. turns out that that leak -- the source of the leak was known from the start and pursued him anyway. this is the problem with special

counsels. they become almost another branch of government. they're theoretically accountable to main justice. as a practical matter, they don't seem to be. they go on and on and on. meantime, they have all of this process that they can use subpoenas and grand jury testimony and the threats of perjury investigations and all of that to pressure people with now we're hearing that roger stone may be prepared to -- won't stick up for trump. won't testify against trump. so -- >> tucker: we're getting in the weeds. >> yeah. this report needs to be finished. we want to know what they got and we want to find out what the russians did. i'd love to know. it would tell us if it made any difference in the election or not. >> tucker: i think we know. apparently there's a sentencing report. catherine herridge is standing by for it. if we get it in this hour, we'll bring it to you. thanks, brit hume.

>> you bet. >> tucker: obviously no one i like talking to more than brit hume. a special digital feature out tomorrow on the new digital platform, fox nation. we just had a long conversation about george h.w. bush for that it will be on tomorrow morning. a few weeks democrats will be running the house of representatives. will their top priority be helping the country or impeaching the president? maybe a little of both. that's next. that's next. we've been helping you prepare and invest for retirement since day one. why would we leave now? because i'm retired now. so? we're voya. we stay with you to and through retirement... with solutions to help provide income throughout. so you'll still be here to help me make smart choices? well, with your finances that is. we had nothing to do with that, uh, tie. or the suit. or the shirt. voya. helping you to and through retirement.

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>> tucker: democrats took back the house in the november elections. a lot of reasons may have given them a share of power. maybe they trusted them on healthcare, the economy. polls are not close. democrats want to make a priority of legislation over investigations. is that true? betsy woodruff says much of the party is interested in a chance to take part in a trump impeachment. watch this. >> democrats are lining up to get on house judiciary because they expect it to be the place where the action is in part, of course, because now we'll be in a position to provide over any impeachment proceedings. >> chris hahn is a progressive radio host. he joins us tonight. thanks for coming on. i don't understand all the lying and embarrassment.

nancy pelosi went through this in 2006 when democrats wanted to impeach cheney and bush. she's trying to keep her troops from talking about impeachment. the overwhelming majority of democratic voters are for impeaching trump. i get it. they've been told he's a war criminal. so why should democrats impeach? >> there's people in the party that would like the to see an investigation of the president. the majority is one in suburban swing districts that want people to work on things like healthcare, changing the tax reform so it benefits the middle class and other issues that they campaigned on. most of the campaign was not about impeachment. i don't think we're at a point where impeachment is a real thing. impeachment has to be bipartisan for removal in the senate. nancy pelosi knows that. she will be the speaker of the house. i do not think barring some major revelation in the mueller

report, i don't think you'll see impeachment on the agenda for the next congress. >> tucker: that's probably right. democrats are terrified of anyone that steps out of line is crushed. marsha fudge got destroyed by nancy pelosi when she talked about running against him. people are afraid of nancy pelosi. i get it. it doesn't make much sense. i spent two years comparing this guy to hitler. saying that he colluded with a foreign power, he's treasonous. many people have said that. if he's all the things you've told us he is, why don't you have a moral obligation to impeach him this afternoon? i'm serious. >> well, look, like i said, unless there's something that both sides agree is criminal, ready for removal, i don't see nancy pelosi allowing that to go forward in the house. we know what happened -- >> tucker: why should rank and file -- you're right. i get it. i agree with you as a political matter. you're absolutely right.

pelosi is very smart politically and knows it will hurt democrats if she tries to impeach. i'm also serious about this. let's take your rhetoric seriously. how can you live in a country with the president who is like hitler who colludes with vladimir putin to destroy our democracy? >> here's my answer. my answer to that is we're not going to be able to remove him through impeachment. the only way to remove donald trump is to beat him at the election box. so what i have said and others have said, democrats should investigate clear problems in his administration so it makes it harder for him to get re-elected in 2020. if you try to impeach him without the republicans to remove him, it's a waste of time, it's a waste of political capitol and will lead to the democrats losing majority and

donald trump being elected in 2020. >> tucker: is there a time -- >> he will have a hard time getting re-elected. >> tucker: is there a time when democrats say look, we disagree with trump on some things, not that many times, to be totally honest, not that many things but some things. we don't like his style and she shouldn't tweet. the time we said he was a traitor to his country or like hitler, he shouldn't have said that. that made us look stupid and wrong to talk that way. is anybody going to say that? >> united nations if they'll say that. seems like the apology and taking things back is gone from american politics. what i do hope, we'll see people come together on things they can find common ground on and pass bills on things that will work. i'm really encouraged by -- >> tucker: everyone is so moderate. i love it. >> i'm encouraged by that. i want to see real infrastructure. >> tucker: okay.

i hope you're right. >> nobody is ever going to say they're sorry anymore. it's a lost art form in politics. i wouldn't hold my breath. >> tucker: they should. >> i agree. >> tucker: thank you. some democrats want to focus on impeachment. incoming republicans are checking on big tech ought to be a big priority for all of us. josh holly is a senator elect representing missouri. one of the first issues is the president's renegotiation of nafta. a minor changing to the treaty could protect tech companies that decide to censor any content they dislike. something that they're obviously anxious to do. senator elect holly joins us. thanks very much for coming on tonight. congratulations, by the way, on winning that seat. >> thank you. >> most of our viewers are not aware of this. but this clause, tell us the implications of it. >> there's changes in the nafta agreement to what is called section 230 of the communicate

cases decency act. what that is, tucker, it's a deal that the tech companies get from the government that says that they can't be sued like any other publisher. they can't be sued like a newspaper or sued like a tv station. supposedly what they're supposed to do, they're not supposed to edit edit editorize editorial content. my worry is these companies are censoring. they're censoring conservatives and our view point. my question is, should they really be getting this special immunity from the government if they're going to act like censors? i think we need to take a hard look at that. >> tucker: you know, it's not clear why they haven't. if i'm libel, i can be sued. fox news can be sued. apple cannot be sued, facebook, google, the rest. why should the u.s. government favor those companies in a way that they don't favor my company, for example?

>> that's a very good question. let's be honest, the tech companies, facebook, google, they have gotten huge and powerful and rich on the backs of this special immunity that they get from the federal government. on the back of section 230. it's time we asked hard question. they're monopolies now, they're powerful and appear to be using their power to shut down political view points that they don't agree with, usually conservative. and i think we need to ask, do they deserve these special deals that allowed them to get so big and rich. >> tucker: and you're not even in the united states senate yet and you're saying things that are truer and clearer and more forceful than any of the 100 members sitting there now. i don't want to wreck any friendships you might form once you get there. can you speculate as to why this is happening the last decade and nobody has said anything about it? >> well, i don't know how much attention this has gotten from folks. people don't realize, for instance, the tech companies have gotten sweetheart deals

from the federal government. i don't think they realize they get treated unlike anybody else. they're different from tv stations, different from publishers and getting this special deal. again, it's time to ask, do they deserve to get this special deal if they're going to act like sensors. we need to ask those hard questions. >> tucker: how many phone calls you think you'll get from lobbyists after you get off the air tonight? >> it's never been my ambition to make friends with people that congress ought to be investigating, frankly and who they ought to be holding accountable. we have a responsibility to the public to hold the big and the powerful accountable, especially if they misuse their monopoly power. my worry is these companies are doing this. congress ought to investigate and consider action. >> tucker: senator elect, josh hawley. thank you. >> thank you. >> tucker: this probably won't surprise you if you thought about it for more than ten seconds. the me too movement is having n

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that's over $8,100 on this envision premium. >> tucker: we've got a fox news alert for you. the mueller investigation just filed brand new documents about former national security adviser michael flynn and his cooperation with the investigation. a sentencing guideline. catherine herridge has those documents, reading them right now and assessing them. we're going to her as soon as she has determined what they say. that will talk about a minute. we'll be back. in the meantime, cnn president jeff zooker has spent years remaking his channel from a central liberal news outlet for a platform extreme views and prosecuting vendettas. and now it's time to aim higher than that. on david axelrod's podcast,

zooker said he's interested in running for office. how does senator zooker sound? whatever he decides to run for, his ambitions explain cnn's coverage decisions in the past couple years. now if only they would update their name a little bit to czn. it tells you a lot. outgoing senator claire mccaskill that her party's attempt to destroy brett kavanaugh backfired. ms. mccaskill says that probably ruined her re-election campaign. interesting. we spoke in the segment before to josh hawley that beat her in that campaign in missouri. i find it fascinating that she would say that out loud. seems sort of honest for a politician to say something like that. >> yeah. look, she's free now though.

she's not going back. that allows you to some reflection about what's going on. the same time, this did not happen in a vacuum. this is not a one-off experience. she should know. in her political work, she's help eed facilitate this notionf due process should end and due process is not a good idea, particularly on college campuses, which people have watch this up fold. if you're accused as a young man on a campus, you're suspended, not questioning the accuser and then you lose perhaps your tuition, scholarships, et cetera. we've seen this move through society in little pockets. maybe not everyone noticed. we saw it happening on campus. it was inevitable this would happen in the halls of the senate where they make law. and i think she's realizing maybe too late, obviously, that what she helped facilitate before has now come back in a

very serious dynamic and has harmed her and her party. >> tucker: yeah, a female senator loses her seat in the name of female empowerment. interesting. do you see this taking three steps back, do you see this fervor the intensity accelerating in the next couple years or calming down and the rest of us regaining our senses like claire mccaskill? >> this is not unusual for the democrats. we can expect them to not know when to stop. they will want to accelerate. they will make the mistake of trying to do that. and especially since they took the house, they're going to think that all of this activity helped them. it didn't. i think -- this is up to the republicans and to fair-minded americans to remind their loved ones and their families that this is not what we do. that due process matters, that ideas matter. this is -- the republicans have to deliver. the president is going to have to really step up to make sure that, you know, this

conversation is a fair one and is led appropriately. we know bad things do happen to women. we want them to get justice obviously. i've spent most of my adult life working that. but men are partners in this. that due process and fairness is imperative for all of us. women will be the first to lose as i've argued through this entire dynamic and that men are already losing very badly. >> tucker: so you said that from day one. literally the -- when the harvey weinstein story broke and we were all horrified, you said in that segment, i won't forget it, this could whip around and hurt women as well as innocent men. we're getting another story suggesting that may be true. the me too movement hurting women's employment prospects. it's on wall street according to bloomberg. men are afraid to hire them. >> that's right. >> tucker: it's a sad story. does it surprise you? >> it doesn't. yet it's a reflection of the

fact that this was always about dividing men from women, that men are our allies on this issue. that the majority of men don't do what harvey weinstein was doing. >> tucker: exactly. >> this is where we lost that dynamic. so all men are afraid. whereas in fact, they should be our -- the individuals that help us the most with their brothers and with the men that they work with and their fraternities. they are our defenders as well. this was never really about women for the left. it was about dividing men from women. >> tucker: exactly. >> and those of us that care about the issue, we have to make sure that men are brought with us and women get the justice they deserve but only get it when men are not demonized as the bad guy. >> tucker: you been a consistent voice on that from day one. we appreciate it. thank you. >> thanks. >> tucker: we're going to back

to the fox news alert. the mueller team has just filed papers about michael flynn and his cooperation with the investigation. catherine herridge has seen the documents and joins us to describe what they contain. catherine? >> i was still going through the documents right now. among the headlines that the special counsel says former national security adviser michael flynn provided substantial cooperation with special counsel investigators. they are recommending the low end of spectrum, no jail time, possibly probation in this case. the key document here i have is what is called the addendum, if you can come back to me because it has very important details. it outlines that michael flynn participated in 19 interviews. parts are redacted because of ongoing criminal investigations. i want to show you the depth and the breadth of the redactions.

here on page 2, it says redacted criminal investigation, the defendant has provided substantial assistance in a criminal investigation and then you can see the rest of that is redacted. i'm still pouring through the records. but what you can see here as i said is the bottom line of the special counsel, the former national security adviser mike flynn has provided substantial cooperation. he's sat for two dozen interviewed with the special counsel and provided communications and other records for ongoing criminal matters which have been redacted in the publicly-released documents this evening citing a need to protect the ongoing investigation so we have a recommendation on sentencing for mike flynn, but also very strong evidence that the criminal investigation by the special counsel is ongoing at this time. >> tucker: so just to be clear, the sentencing that you're referring to would be for the crime to which he pled guilty,

which was lying in the course of the investigation. so it was a perjury charge. he might have faced prison time for that. >> yes, which is a violation of usc 1001, up to five years in this particular case given he has no prior offenses, the high degree of cooperation was expected that it would be between zero and six months.the special counsel is recommending no jail time here becaused on his cooperation. the other big headline based on the documents is that this addendum that outlines how mike flynn has cooperated is heavily redacted here and they've done that because they want to keep that information secret, they don't want it public because it would tip their hand, if you will, to the ongoing criminal matters that involved other individuals. tucker? >> tucker: and there's no suggestion -- i know you just got the documents. it's not immediately obvious

what he is cooperating about -- oh sorry to to put you on the spot. >> you're not and i want to give you the best answer i can without speculating. it's too important. what it speaks to is that he's providing cooperation documents and testimony about allegations of collusion with the russians and members of the trump campaign. i'm still going through the documents. i don't see anything more specific than that at this time that would dove tail elements of the recommendation. they don't want to tip their hand to individuals that have not faced any criminal prosecution at this time. >> tucker: there better be a huge crime underlying this. >> there's a lot of stuff redacted. >> tucker: we're really going through a lot. so if this winds up just being a bunch of stupid perjury charges,

someone should be punished for it. catherine, thank you. >> you're welcome. >> tucker: if you stumble upon anything we need to know about, we'll go back to you before we get off the air at 9:00. catherine herridge, thanks very much. vegans are not just coming after your hamburgers, although they are, they want to go after how you speak. bringing home the bacon is out. so are other phrases. an actual vegan joins us to tell us what we can't say. that's next. ♪ the new capital one savor card. earn 4% cash back on dining and 4% on entertainment. now when you go out, you cash in.

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ask your doctor about neulasta onpro. ready tyou better beast on? 'cause it's red lobster's new create your own ultimate feast event! pick 4 of 10 favorites to create the ultimate feast you've been dreaming of. will you choose creamy lobster mac & cheese, tender, wild-caught snow crab... crispy jumbo coconut shrimp, hey, we never said choosing was easy... just delicious. so hurry in to create your own ultimate feast before it's gone. and be the party hero. get ten percent off when you order red lobster to go. but only for a limited time. >> neil: want to bring you back to the fox news alert. catherine herridge is continuing to go through the documents that we just received, the flynn sentencing report. michael flynn, former national security adviser's sentencing record. he pled to a felony for lying to fbi agents. apparently the mueller

investigation has recommended no jail time and he's cooperated extensively with the investigation of we don't know because it's redacted. catherine is going through it as we said. if she finds anything that adds to the story or is interesting, she will come back on our air instantly. we'll be glad to have her. trump dearrangement syndrome is all-consuming on the left. we know that. you don't know how powerful it is. how powerful? many cannot even honor the death of public figures without comparing them to the president they had a most. the host of "the view" got in a spat with megan mccain saying about bush, at least he wasn't trump. >> this president we have now is trying to unravel everything that he did and obama did. if i become a one issue voter, it's about pollution and the greenhouse -- >> can we focus on the president? i don't want to talk about

trump. we're honor ago great president of the past -- >> i want to talk about -- >> i'm not interesting in your -- >> i don't care what you're interested. i'm talking -- >> we'll be right back. >> later, christmas controversy. >> tucker: imagine opening up your head and letting someone you dislike in and letting him take a permanent resident there. you would never sleep again. a wiseman once said when you hated somebody, you're the victim of it. that is on display now. boy. recently on this show, we told you how the future vegan dictatorship could ban phrases that they find offenses like bringing home the bacon. vegans have been thinking about this for a long time. the animal rights group, peta, which is wacky, has a long lived of new idioms that they don't want people to use.

instead of kill two birds with one stone, peta said feed two birds with one stone. ashley byrnes works there. thanks for coming on. >> thanks so much for having me, tucker. >> tucker: a lot of our viewers don't agree. i can't hate peta. you're pro dog. you're demented by funny. i just cannot resist on this topic. >> and we love that you don't hate us. thank you. >> tucker: i'm for anybody that loves dogs. so part of peta are crazy. i just for the record against them. but some makes me laugh. you don't like the phrase" to beat a dead horse." it's already dead. doesn't matter. what would you replace it with? >> feed a fed horse. >> tucker: so overfeed a horse.

force feed a horse? like a goose for pate? overfeed a horse. every bit as dumb as the idiom. replaces. bring home the bacon. i like that. you say what? >> bring home the bagles. as a new yorker, i like that. and as a vegan. >> tucker: i know. something a little emasculating about that. bring home the bacon has the vigorous feel to it. bring home the bagel. you think it's as powerful? >> i don't know where you're getting your bagles, but yeah, absolutely. >> tucker: that's fair. >> you know, i think -- when you think about where bacon comes from, it's really not that light. the pork industry is ugly. so absolutely. bring home the bagles. >> tucker: i didn't think about it this morning when i ate it.

take the bull -- >> that's why we want this conversation. >> tucker: good point. >> instead of taking the bull by the horn, take the rose by the thorn. again, you know, sounds funny. but anyone who has ever seen a bull fight, it's grisly. it's awful. >> tucker: i agree. i don't want -- i'm with you on the bull fighting. it's not really a fair fight. put your eggs in one basket. >> never a fair fight. >> tucker: that seems harmless. what is wrong with that? >> put your berries in one basket. unlike berries, chickens are in one cage defecating on each other. the egg industry, when you peek through, you find cruelty and abuse. >> tucker: i know. we're talking about language here. >> why not? >> tucker: if you're in a meeting and somebody says let's put our berries in one bowl.

everybody would turn and say, you know what? you're a tool. you can't work here. right? >> you know, i don't think so. i think language evolves with our values. you know, again, we're having fun with this. it's cheeky. it's fun. i think people like these. >> tucker: i'm going to leigh you on the last one. more than one way to skin a cat. by the way, i hate changing language. that's one phrase i'm open to changing. what would you replace it with? >> most of us don't like that. we'd say more than one way to peel a potato. >> tucker: i sort of admire the spirit of this. by the way, i'm not worried that there will be a vegan dictatorship. i don't think you'll force us to do this but you need to do better than peel a potato. thanks for trying. >> we don't want to force anyone. but we do think that most people are kind, most people -- >> tucker: that's what i like about you. ashley, thanks. great to see you. >> yeah. so good to be on.

thank you, tucker. >> tucker: thank you. that's it for us. we'll be back tomorrow 8:00 p.m. the show that is the sworn enemy of lying smugness. we have the documents from the mueller investigation. catherine herridge is going through them now. "hannity" is up next in four seconds. we'll have more on that unfolding story. >> it's amazing. so untimely. >> sean: welcome to hannity. just breaking, big news out of the mueller witch-hunt. the special counsel just released its report on lieutenant general michael flynn, you know the guy who served his country 33 years, five years in combat? mueller is recommending after all of this time no prison time for general flynn. but the damage has been done. flynn is, quote, a convicted felon, a victimless process crime based on evidence that is suspect. the fbi didn't think he li