the creator say he's happy to be in a position to give back. and that's how fox reports this saturday december 8th, 2018 i'm jon scott thanks for joining us tonight. life, liberty, and living starts right now. ♪ hello america i'm mark this is live, liberty and with heather. >> thank you for having me on. >> well you have a b.a. and m.a. in english and jd you're a lawyer. but you're a scholar in so many areas. race relations, immigration, policing, and colleges and universities and this is where i really wanted to delve in with you you have a brand new book the diversity delusion how race

corrupt the university and undermine our culture. this is so relevant today. and you argue that toxic ideas first spread by higher education have t undermined humanistic values, fueled intolerance and widen divisions in our larger culture. and i think we see this everywhere now. >> we certainly do. kavanaugh hearing was an example that we're all in gender studies one-on-one now, mark virtually every aspect of the culmination of hysteria that greeted judge kavanaugh was perfected over the last decade on a college campus. above all, the to believe survivors regardless of the evidence regardless of due process. this is the campus rate are hysteria that has been transforming the lives of males on campuses creating an extraordinarily costly bureaucracy moved into the real world and not going away. it is only going to get worse.

>> what if universities and colleges become and when did this happen? theyt were always kind of liberl in lastt several decades. but in some ways and my phrase -- but they're almost -- sort of a e soviet style system where there isn't free speech you cannot challenge the so-called norms in the universities. where race, and gender seem to haveo a priority over other things and that sort of thing when did all of this happen? >> well, the 80s was when it started in myed view. that's when you got radical multiculturalism that hit. i was in college in the 70s. i'm very grateful for that because, i was allowed to read john milton and shakespeare without anyone thinking to complain about the authors. i got to lose myself in beauty, in greatness, and sub limbty cool the 80s and students were given a license for ignorance,

they were taught that the only thing they needed to know about a book was the race and gender of the author to know whether it was thoroughly dismissible without itno being read, with ad they could go on to instead wallow in their own -- delusional oppression and it is only gotten worse since then and what we are doing is breeding the grounds for i fear civil war because students are being taught to hate. to hate the greatest works of western civilization, and frankly to hate each other. from the moment a student steps onat college campus today is asa freshman or a fresh person i should probablym say, the bureaucracy is determined to -- to drum into that student's head identity politics which says, he's either a victim or an oppressor. oppressors are, obviously, most

famously, white males heterosexual white male, the only way they can get out of their oppressor category is to become an g ally. an ally of the oppressed. the most prosolution of this is that students believe they are at risk of their lives from racism on a college campus this environment that in traditional lecial terms is most tolerant in human history for society marginalized group. yet there's a massive bureaucracy dedicated to cultivating in students this delusional sense of their own oppression which then they carry with them it is a chip on their should tear that prevents them from ceasing the magnificent opportunities to learn, to read every book that's ever been written. and they carried this ship, this delusional victim into the world at large, and they are going

around blaming american institutions of racism and sexism when that no longer is true. >> you see it with respect to professors and tenure. you see professions are out of the classroom and see confrontation in college campuses you see that mincement speakers are almost -- totally of the left. you see when sometives dare to go to college campus to speak about things that are really not particularly controversial. how often you have to bring in the riot police. or the security guards have to come into the facility. thety administrators are these e old 60s, 1960s retread types or0 who are these people? >> yeah,ed ad mrt tores are left wing than the faculty. and they are --

part of massive bureaucracy is students areea wongdering why is my college tuition so expensive look no further than the bureaucracy at the university of california at los angeles, their vice chance her for inclusion makes over 4 -- 400,000 dollars a year this is mind boggling this is multiples more than your average faculty member makes. it could pay for free tuition for four years for 12 undergraduates. and that vice chance chancellor has nothing to do because there isn't a single bigot on university campus today every faculty search is one desperate effort to find qualified females or so-called underrepresented minorities this refer to black and hispanics who haven't been snapped up by better endowed schools.ee so what is vice chancellor of

equity inclusion do? because they're certainly not routing racism and sexism, what they're doing is drumming into students heads this false narrative of victimology, and what is amazing to me is that colleges are somehow held harmless for their rising tuitions. the solution that is always banding aboutui in public discourse a is well more federal aid. no -- don't feed the beast. cut the the bureaucracy, get back to the basics of learning. which now is a -- distant afterthought no faculty hass the guts to say we know wht you should learn you're ig nornght we're here to put knowledge in your empty noggin. instead students are given utter cart to decide what had to study. the faculty of advocate their intellectual responsibility and as you say, we're in a very

weird situation where speakers such as myself who was prevented from talking about policing at claremontuc college, when i neea police escort to come on to a college campus, and the alarm bell should be going off in faculty ears saying thing is wrong here. but instead the faculty are nowhere to be found. >> let me ask you this, so why do we passively subsidize this through our taxes through tuition, through student loans you know you have bernie sanders out there saying free college for everybody. well of course these are as you're saying, more doctrine and free college, and obama with, you know, the federal government should assume all of these student debt so they talk about college as if it really is -- academic. rather than in so many respects propaganda oriented. they know about this.

they know what they're doing. it bleeds into the greater society doesn't it, it bleeds into politics and it bleeds into the media some of thes you're talking about in media on tv and commentators on tv. >> well, identity politics is everywhere. i'm so sick of hearing so many preface his remarks by saying well, as a white female, or as black female, y, y, z i'm sorry that's nonsector it is not the case that i can predict your views knowing that you're a white male. i cannot predict your views if you are a black female. and it is the height of both arrogance and -- and to think someone could be on that base of that but now that is currency of the political realm. so it is certainly bled into politics that democratic party now is an extension of this

poisonous identity politics on college campuses and to be honest, i can only hope it continues because -- american by and large are not buying it. but thing that worries me the most mar is what this is dong to our scientific advantage in the so-called stem field business, the science technology engineering and math. for a while, people who were optimists thought well, okay, you've got the gender studies here. you've got the women studies there. you've got the statistics there. it is all going to stay put. science will be the one realm thathe remains committed to that because we all understand, of course -- that there's no such thing as female physics. there's no such thing as iranian physics. there's physics. there's math, this is the accomplishment of human reason that is open to everybody. well, that was a false hope. anybodyy that knew anything abot

university would have known it's not safe. and now, you have nothing less than national science foundation, a federal agency to the premier funder of basic researchc on college campuses that has itself been colonized by this poisonous identity politics. the national science foundation is spending billions of our taxpayer dollars funding gender theorists on college campuses to study so-called intersectionalty and microaggressions in the stem field on the assumption that the only possible explanation for why we do not have 50/50 gender parody in our engineering and math department must be about by definition result of sex schism that is diversity delusion. is the fundamental lie that we've been fed that any disparity in a representation

whether it is a gender disparity or racist disparity must be result of discrimination so our stem field now are obsessed with gender -- gender equity and race are equity. >> so also is an attack as you write -- on competition. obviously, and on merit. >> it is. > and so we dumb down our society we triballize our society and is our society. >> it benefits the society because let's start with the college campus but it goes into the corporations as well. onon a college campus, students are being taught to hate they're being taught to think of themselves as victims. i would argue this is a side issue we can or can't get into racial preferences which are poisonous policy feed into this -- in complex way, but every time that students hold these protests like brown students occupying the presidents office

saying, well, it is very hard to have to go to class and study for exams because we're working so hard at, quote, staying alive at brown. this is preposterous this is delusional but every time there's a outbreak of student his tearty it says we need more diversity w bureaucrats and sady students grow and they inevitably ask for more chancellor -- >> but you also brought up kavanaugh hearing and so what i'm getting at is: when you indoctrine this way and go into broader world, and i feel like the democratting party plays into this so like democrat party plays into this and media plays into this because a lot of these people init politics and more ad media come out of this mindset do they not? >> yeah, media bleeds again that race and gender determine

everything. there's not a single mainstream media outlet that is note determining what stories to cover. who to source them to who to quote. who to put -- who to write them that is not looking at race and gender on assumption that those attributes determine our world that america is profoundly racist profoundly sexist and they're seeking stories s that they support that narrative. and it's also in corporations hr departments you know, one of the main milestone it is that show how much the university identity politics is transforming our competitive edge was when google fired a young computer engineer named james damore in august o 2017, damore wrote a factual reasoned based ten page memo simply questioning the feminist orthodoxy that reigns at google.

he was fired. well one of the interesting comments on the google chat board said we need to stop this diversity -- madness before it goes any further. right now, our hr department is simply an outpost of gender studies andte black studies. >> all right. >> don't forget folks almost everye weeknight you can watch tv, lavin it have at cr tv.com we love you to join us. just give us a call 844lavin tv. we'll be right back. the united states postal service makes more holiday deliveries to homes

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heather mcdonald you've talked about how a these ideas tear at the american fabric. but they have real world consequences not only in our politics not only in our media. but in competition with countries, china, russia and so forth, explain. >> well china ruthlessly it doesn't give a dame about identity politics wants the best engineers and the best physics. if they're all female great if they're all male great who cares -- the united states is diverting vast sums of money into trying to engineer gender parody in its

labs. meanwhile, comien china is racing ahead with ruthless competitive drive, we are putting our competitive edge at risk. right now we're still ahead but do not assume that is going to last forever if we continue to put these irrelevant of gerund above all and race to lesser extent ahead of scientific competitiveness. because again, it is not just china, it is also russia. they are spending 100% of their science research money on doing science. we are devoting everincreasing percentage into genderce politi. whether it is at mit, harvard, u.k. berkeley or whether it is coming out of congress through the national science foundation. this has to be stopped. >> this has to be stopped.

you've got almost a monopoly ideology on college campuses. you're getting it a point of a monopoly ideology in our newsroom. >> right. >> in the democrat party you have almost a monopoly ideology not many but few conservatives left. this is quite daunting, isn't it? >> it is daunting, and one has toto fight for truth against falsehood. >> how do you do that? >> well, i think -- for one we need to defund the universities alumni has to stop giving money. realize that these schools you have y a false ideal about them. they are again, generators of ideology not of wisdom. and, and there needs to be alternative venues, the support of classical learning in the humanities but i think frankly -- and certainly we need to talk

about value of free speech but free speech problem is a symptom of something much more deep which is this cultivation of victimology. i think what also needs to be done mark and this maybe a false hope. i don't hear enough voices providing an at at explanation is why there's not necessarily 50/50e gender parody in the path path -- math department. right now the soul plainings is implicit bias that females are discouraged from studying matt fact is countries with the most gender equity, have the greatest disparity on stem buzz on average females and males are interested in different types of work. males on average and there's always syringe differences you can't assume anything about an individual based on average but on average males are more attracted to abstract work to competition a they're higher rik

of -- prone females want more hands on relational human based work. so i do not expect that a people working for the nobel prize in physicss or earning it in math are going to be 50/50 gender and i'm also willing to talk about something that is very have taboo mark is that skills are not evenly districted among groups. high end math skills you look at .01% of the high fest in math skills and also the dummies, who are the worst math quads -- it is males. who are the the greatest math geniuses -- .01%h of the highest in math skills, males outnumber females 2.5 to 1. so, larry summers when he was president of harvard dared talk aboutar this distribution of mah skills. he got fired. we have to keep talking about

that, though, because they dominate the -- the explanation for inequality or lack is racism over sexism we have to fight that. smg let's overlay this with immigration. because -- if diversity based on characteristics so forth is key that takes place in college and universities more and more on broader society, this complicates it even further because people coming into this country many of whom are we consider minorities . ngsouth of the border, asia, africa, the middle east how do we account for that? in other words, when i see these statistics about the the percentage of the population that is this group, and why aren't they part of this group? well some of them are first generation some of them haven't assimilated into the country yet so some off of these statistics are bogus to begin with and aren't we teffing people who

come into this country newly come into this country, the wrong thing? shouldn't we be teaching assimilationon american culture- as you put it and so forth yet i don't sees us doing that. >> assimilation is dirty word you cannot speak about that on a college campus. and -- whey found most interesting is, the way asians are tending. right now, to be a victim in the united states is to be the highest elite position you can occupy. power ironically flows from being a victim you have a ruthlessly competitive drive to see who can be tom victim. top dog victim, and it's -- it's mono people really pulling each other down. you know, now the top victim is tran but guarantee you in another five years trans is pulled down and somebody else on top victim and anybody who can

predict that gets the prize. >> you were talking about -- the asians are the most academically competitive because the academic culture at home is so strong and yet a large percentage ofnt asians are sayi, well don't call us model minority. we want to be people of color, against white -- you have a lot of asians that are voting democratic that actually support racial preferences in i universities. because even though it acts against them asians are ones that are most -- most penalized by racial practices. slow down there you don't see that at harvard. the -- asian community or part of it is challenging. >> a small channel but challenging emission at harvard becausere discriminated against but not based on merit and so this is a problem. for that community but i don't even like this kind of talk. that community, that -- we so dehumanize humanity.

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>> live from america's news headquarters i'm jon scott more changeses are coming to the white house with prumple announcing his chief of staff is john kelly will be leaving his post by the end of the year. the president confirmed the news as he was leaving white house

earlier today. rumors of kelly exit have been making the rounds for several months. kelly's held the job since july of 2017. the president calls kelly a, quote, great guy, and thanked him for his service he said he will announce a replacement in the next several days. another weekend of chaos in paris, as thousands of protesters take to the streets. yellow vested demonstrators clashed with police throwing tear gas and their furious with emmanuel macron including hiking fuel taxes while slashing tacks for the the rich. i'm jon scott now back to life, liberty, and levin. ♪ >> heather mcdonald, we've seen this caravan, this envision that's been taking place for a period of time. theth president wants to put an end to it. i look at this, and i think to

myself shouldn't the nation be united and wanting to secure the border whether you're for immigration, opposed to immigration, this is a law and order matter. this is a sovereignty matter. and when you see these pictures in the video of individuals throwing rocks throwing bottles at i.c.e., at our law enforcement, and yet there is a significant percentage of our societyy including members of congress including people in the media including so-called scholars, who don't denounce this. inun fact, they denounce the president for trying to resolve it. what do you make of that? > it is remarkable it is a divide that i cannot even get over. i can sometimes put myself in the shoe of the left on other matters. but on this one, it seems so obvious. that you do not nobody is entitled to enter any other country illegally. i am not entitled to walk into germany and say, you know, take m in. this is a fundamental right of

citizens to determine themselveses who comeses in and who doesn't. so it is a matter of principle we can also say as a matter of consequences if you lose that right, the migration flows that are going to take place into the united states would absolutely crush us. you cannot have a welfare state country with open bordersstate it will destroy a country i say to myself it is really in recent times that people try to break into your country tearing the flag of the country saying where they comee from and then claim that they want asylum. and then to have people in the united states, people of prominence public official and media figures so forth excusing it well they're hungry they want a better life well this, that, okay. so somebody robs a bank because they need money to pay their mortgage that's okay. if somebody goes in a grocery store and steals bunch of steaks because they need to feed their

children. that's okay. there's a breakdown in -- in respect for law and order whether it is immigration, whether it is baltimore, or any of these door or any of these type of situations why is that? >> you know, we have this ideology of you do not blame the victim. and so what you're saying is absolutely correct. that has been a factor in the left wing culture for a long time thatfo if you get to claim victim status you be ab about solved from following the rules to defecate on streets because while you're a victim, you can steal because you're a victim you can shoot other people because you're a victim do not apply we have given up on the idea of this single moral standard for all people. obviously, for the democrats when it comes to immigration, there is a belief that the more third world people of color, that they bring in, the the more they get a larger base for identity politics.

i think what is -- driving this as well is some just profound hatred for western civilization which is perceived as being a function of white males and so there's a desire to somehow deluge it and destroy what created just extraordinary advances in human well being, prosperity, reason, and obviously affluence. but you know, i find so extraordinary is the left in the morning has one narrative which had is that there's no place more oppressive on earth than the united states for people of color. it's just -- if you're a person of color in the united states you are subject of constant oppression. and in the afternoon, says we need eve third world person of color to come here. well, they can't both be true. why is it that so many people in

the third world are begging, they are breaking law to come intoto the united states because they'll be oppressed? the aclu should be saying the aclu in morning mode should be saying to third world people of color stay put. you're much better off and you're freer and you're more aflownt and nobody is going to -- kill you by oppression in your third worldld person of color country. instead they all want them to come in so a completely incoherent ideology only unpacked by understanding that the agenda here ultimately is to try and bring down western civilization. >> when we come back i want to pursue that again -- why would there be forces in this country that live in the lap of luxury, that live in lap of liberty and live in lap of law and order, justice -- trying to destroy it? i think that's the big question.

ladies and gentlemen, don't forget most weeknights you can watch me on levin tv levin tv, i hope you'll join us go to cr tv.com/mark, or give us a call at 844-levin tv that's 844-levin tv. we'll be right back. 844-levin-e right back. 844-levin-e i'm snow. and just like you, the further into winter we go, the heavier i get. and while your pants struggle to support the heavier you, your roof struggles to support the heavier me. crash! and your cut-rate insurance might not pay for this. so get allstate, you could save money and be better protected from mayhem like me. mayhem is everywhere. so get an allstate agent. are you in good hands?

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>> we do need to ask the question i do why would there be powerful forces in this country that want to destroy these various instrumentalities of liberty, these constitutional standards and so forth? and let me give you my idea. isn't it because that's the nature progressivism. progressivism is really the marxism, for russo that they've

told us this john dewey told us this that woodrow told us this beginning of the last century and they tell us this today pretty much that is -- we need a clean slate. so this country was by slave owners it has to be destroyed the constitution is okay if we can use it. get to where we want to go. liberty is good as long as we can exploit liberty to get to where we want to go. and so they talk about radical and college for all health care for all, and this isn't new. we've seen it in all of these societies that basically destroy liberty and empower government centralized government it is the same story relative few, control, the society -- while they claim to be pop ewe list and reformers and so forth. isn't that the cent of what's taking place here? >> well, that's certainly part of it, and because it is true

that you can say marksism at least embodyiment in china and it was not a western phenomenon to me what i notice about our world too is that, the peculiarity of american culture in western with european culture in general, being so self-hating, this is, i think, relatively new in human experience or h for a culture to want to claim that its own basis is founded in injustice rather than celebrating itself traditionally.n maybe to a fault, countries in civilizations celebrated strength in accomplishment in power,er and maybe not enough appreciated other cultures. we're the opposite. it is a very corrosive but very weird development in human

history. for the elite to be so dedicated to a narrative of guilt and shame. and one can seek an explanation in s ultimate power as you say that the progressive elites are speaking to control society and to imposed i guess a radical legaltarian agenda but one has to ask why is that? and it's complicated. i think for america, obviously, we did have an original sin at the start of this country which was our treatment of blacks, and it was very ugly and very -- hard for us to understand now how we could go for so many decades without seeing that fundamental contradiction many people did. and you know, one can say that even at the start the

constitution foresaw that eventually this contradiction would be reconciled and worked out. nevertheless, it's understandable that we're guilty now eloquent about saying it is time to move beyond that and realize that we now provide equal opportunity in the opportunity for individuals to cease their own fate and better themselves through the exercise of values. but -- a large part of society wants to hold on to that guilt exploit it, and -- continue with the idea that oppression is the defining characteristic. to me the great greatest was coats who is making just untold sums going around, telling

america, telling white america that the very essence of america is to destroy black body. not in -- not in the 19th century but today, and people love it. [laughter] it goes to -- he goess to these all white colleges and tells them, you the essence of you people is to destroy us and people cheer. it is a very, very weird thing. >> uh-huh. yet i don't think it's unique in the sense that you have greatest country really -- the mankind has ever established rotting from within and yet ohs have too whether rome and so forth don't compare us to them but i'm saying for different reasons i don't think they were saying we are these -- we are the oppressors on earth but they didn't need to. they just rotted from within because of the way they treated eachth other and way that they - way they rejected their own -- initial founding so that said, it's --

it's not comfortable just standing, staying with its weird. because it is weird. because it's well too advanced. it is too ubiquitous in my view to leave it at weird. i'm not saying there's a conspiracy. i'm v saying there's an ideolog. ideology is the ideology and tells us what ideology is. what's past p is bad. what's today is bad. >> right. only future counts and only we master minds can form this, the future. and we've seen it in other societies and other forms and in other ways and that's part of the puzzle of america isn't it? we have freedom. which allow people to do things to this country and in this country thatt i think can be extremely destructive. we'll be right back. ♪ (music throughout)

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>> heather mcdonald if we don't secure our border even 90, 95% secure the border, know who is coming, vet them, if we don't recognize that we are a sovereign nation a nation state with borders, and for people who come here even legally, if we

don't assimilate people generally, into our culture into ourtu language, into our communities, where are we going to be? sees to be a country, right? >> sure you become nothing. i mean, what the main problem is this large unchecked low-skilled immigration flow that is imposing enormous cost on the country in terms of welfare, schooling, prison construction, policing, and is bringing a, they don't have the social capital and what i've documented is the creation of a second underclass where a lot of the kids of these illegal immigrants who are coming from largely peasant culture again not having an argument ore a narrative about assimilation they're being sucked into gang culture. you have the highest out-of-wedlock teen birthrate among hifngs highest dropout rate from high schools among

hispanics. many are succeeding they're starting businesses but a significant number is getting sucked into -- oppositional values, into sort of a gangster mentality, and creating greater social division, and it is costing taxpayers enormous amount of money. they -- can see what happens. you know, and in many communitiesni when you have illegal people coming in, gang crime goes up. this is -- not an illusion. and so it is the right -- any -- any citizen body not just americans, mexico nobody has birthright citizenship for illegal aliens you want to see border control look at what mexico does try to do unless it is a caravan that's going through on route s to the united

states, butri every other county in this hemisphere understands that borders count except when it is people going to magnet that we've got and, of course, that's the other problem with not enforcing rule of law that is sends i an invitation biggest deterrence to people coming illegally is the knowledge that there will be consequences. the sanctuary city movement is one of the most appalling acts of political daring, it is breathless in its -- in its ambitions. what's going on there is a -- the hard left open borders lobby is making the most difficult possible case had is to say that anul illegal alien criminal somebody who is legal goes on to break other criminal laws. that that person may not be deported. >> we'll be right back. ♪

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[♪] mark: heather macdonald, i will ask you the question i ask most of guests. where do you see the country in the next five years. >> we are either in civil war or we have gotten to the brink of civil war. mark: you mean physical civil war? >> i absolutely do. you have seen civil violence grow with the he couragement and politicians beating each other up. mark: antifa. >> harassing tucker carlson, harassing politicians. universities are teaching students to hate on the basis of race and gender. we counter that narrative that counters the view that

america oppresses females. i have never been oppressed in my life. unless we fight that endemic racism idea, we are at civil war. jesse: welcome to. "watters' world." i'm jesse watters. the president announcing the departure of white house chief of staff john kelly in the coming days. president trump: john kelly will be leaving, i don't know if i can say retiring. he's a great guy. john kelly will be leaving at the end of the year. we'll be announcing who will be take john's place. it might be on an interim basis. but john will be leaving at the end of the year. he has been with me almost two years now between the two positions. we'll probably see himor