that. anything else? that's it? [laughs] okay, i think we are done here at "america's newsroom." we will see you back here tomorrow. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: fox news alert, first lady melania trump has kicked off this season the way we love to do it, meeting with some children at the annual toys for tots event at our nation's capital. she is at the joint base anacostia in washington, d.c. this event is organized by the u.s. marines u.s. marine corps reserve. we are watching her right now, she has just arrived there. as this continues on, as wheat -- oh, okay, it looks like it is a little bit. we may see her pull back and see some of the children there. we see marines in the background. such a beautiful way of giving and graciousness at our nation's capital, to kick things off. there they are, the kids. i always look to see those children at the bottom of the screen. it is very sweet. toys for tots. hosted by the first lady.

it's officially christmas. all right, we will move on. president trump meeting with top congressional democrats at the white house with the possible partial government shutdown looming in the next ten days. if lawmakers do not reach a deal on a spending bill, that could happen. the major sticking point, funding for a border wall. you are watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. fox news contributor, lisa boothe. fox news analyst, host of "benson & harf" on fox news radio, marie harf. in the center seat -- i don't know, does he have an opinion on anything? [laughter] former utah congressman and fox news contributor, jason chaffetz is in the house. merry christmas. >> jason: you know what i love watching the first lady do that? those kids have selfie sticks. [laughter] >> harris: there are there the moment! >> melissa: i bet their parents did. [laughter]

>> harris: glad to have you. we'll go to the news. big news day, as always. we are watching the white house as the president, congresswoman nancy pelosi, and senator chuck schumer are set to meet. at the heart of the talks are efforts to fund that border wall system. the president has requested at least $5 billion to pay for that. an idea which democrats have so far rejected. senate minority leader schumer and house majority leader pelosi released a statement. here it is, in part. "our country cannot afford a trump shutdown, the president knows full well that he doesn't have the votes to pass house and senate and should not be an obstacle to a bipartisan agreement." over this morning, president trump tweeted -- "in 2006, democrats voted for a while and they were right to do so. today they no longer want border security. they will fight it at all costs, and nancy muscat must get voter

speaker but the wall --" he is alluding to new reporting showing that nancy pelosi may have something on her hands. the roll call is showing at least 15 democrats are holding firm on their opposition to nancy pelosi becoming the next speaker of the house. she can only afford to lose 17 votes. counselor to the president kellyanne conway suggesting that congresswoman pelosi may not be able to risk the political fallout making a deal with the present. watch it. >> this president is willing to work across the aisle with leader schumer and with speaker pelosi. she also has a critical decision to make. she does not have the votes to, necessarily, for speaker. it's really tough for her to get them. why does she promise these democrats in her caucus to becoe speaker? >> harris: we are hearing that there is video what's going on in the room, we are expected to get there very soon. we will play it as we get it.

the optics of doing business with the president. what do you make of it? >> jason: doesn't bode well for nancy pelosi. this joint statement is fundamentally flawed. they say they don't have the votes in the senate and the house. they have already passed in the house, that $5 billion. so they do have the votes. it does come down to the senate. the president should have probably split those two and talk to schumer and maybe have a different conversation with nancy pelosi. nevertheless, the president -- it's embarrassing that he hasn't gotten the funding. the government in itself, the two years he has been president, has spent $8 trillion. how did they not come up with a 25 billion? they have already cut it down to 5 billion. now they trying to cut the $1.6 billion in half. the president is going to hold tight on this one. >> harris: if you were a democrat voter and you are looking at this situation, with nancy pelosi -- getting it wrong, as he said, in terms of how many votes are really in the house. if you are looking at that and wondering "what the heck it? we voted you in as a check and balance on the president but we still expect you to get

something done." by the way, we are inside a two-minute warning. i will try to cut down i cannot cut anybody off but i may have to. >> marie: she has more room. preaching play hardball more. that's where donald trump will need votes. the new nbc marist poll, almost six in ten americans say the president should compromise on the wall to avoid shutdown. >> harris: what does that look like? >> marie: that's a question. almost seven nintendo consider building a wall to be an immediate priority for the next congress. the president -- this is a good -- if he shuts the government down because of the wall, if they agree to meet somewhere in the middle, it shows that it will hurt him. >> harris: we will wrap you quickly because we are inside o. we succumb i want to ask you this question -- republicans could've helped out the present and they didn't. >> lisa: that's a good point, they haven't. that's what he should hunker down and put a lot of precious e on congress. he could get funding threats and stress the time a president.

we don't know what's going happen in the house, if they're going to take it back or not. when people -- >> harris: i have to cut you off. the president met with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer about funding a ball. let's watch together. >> thank you very much. it's a great honor to have nancy pelosi with us, and chuck schumer with us. we have actually worked very hard on a couple of things that are happening. criminal justice reform, as you know, we just got word that mitch mcconnell and the group would be putting it up for a vote. we have great democrat support, great republican support. criminal justice reform, something that people have been trying to get -- how long, nancy? many, many years. it looks like it's going to be passing, hopefully. famous last words. on a very bipartisan way. it's something we are all very

proud of. again, tremendous support from republicans and tremendous support from democrats. ethic it's going to get a very good vote. we will see soon enough. it will be up for a vote very shortly. a lot of years they've been waiting for it. the other thing, the farm bill is moving along nicely. i guess they will be voting on friday or so. pretty close. we think the farm bill isn't very good shape, a lot of good things are happening with it. our farmers are well taken care of. again, that will be quite bipartisan. it will happen pretty soon. then we have the easy one, the wall. that will be the one that will be the easiest of all. what do you think, chuck? >> it's called funding the government, mr. president . >> president trump: [laughs] we will see what happens. it is not an easy situation, because the presidents have a the democrats have a different view. we have great republican

support, not grid democrat support. we'll see -- one thing that i do have to say is tremendous amounts of all have already been billed, and a lot of wall -- when you include the renovation of existing fences and walls, renovated a tremendous amount. we have done a lot of work. in san diego we are building new walls right now, right next to san diego we have completed a major section of wall. it is really working well. a lot of wall has been built. we don't talk about that, but we might as well start because it is being built right now. big sections of wall. we will start down i could continue that. one way or another, it will get billed. i would like to not see the government close in, the shutdown. we will see what happens over the next short period of time. the wall is a very important thing to us. border security is extremely important and we have to take care of border security. when you look at what happened

with the caravans, with the people, we shut it down. we had no choice, we shut it down. it could be a lot easier if we had real border security. i just want to pay my respects to the border patrol agents and officers, they have been incredible. the i.c.e. agents and officers have been incredible. very importantly, our military. the military went in and did an incredible job. they have been really, really spectacular. a lot of the people that wanted to come into the country, they wanted to come in no matter how they wanted to come in -- they want to come in and a rough way. many of these people are leaving and going back to their countries. honduras, guatemala, el salvador, and other countries. they are leaving. you notice it's getting a lot less crowded in mexico. a lot of them are going to stay in mexico, and the mexican government has been working with us very well. so we appreciate that. but they haven't been coming into our country. we can't let people come in that

way. that's pretty much it. we are going to talk about the wall. i wanted to talk about criminal justice reform, just to let you know how positive that is. i want to talk about the farm bill, how positive that is. and i want to talk about the wall. i will tell you, it's a tough issue because we are on very opposite sides of -- i really think i can say border security, but certainly, the wall. the wall will get built. a lot of it is built, it will be very effective. i asked for a couple of notes on that. if you look at san diego, illegal traffic dropped 92% once the wall was up. el paso -- illegal traffic dropped 73%, and ultimately 95% once the wall was up. in tucson, arizona, illegal traffic dropped 92%. yuma, they dropped illegal traffic 95-96%. when i say "dropped," the only reason we even have any

percentage where people got through is because they walk and go around areas that aren't built. it dropped virtually 100% in the areas where the wall is. it's very effective. if you really want to find out how effective you wall is, just ask israel. 99.9% effective. our wall will be every bit as good as that, if not better. we have done a lot of work on the wall, a lot of wall is built, a lot of people don't know that. a lot is renovated. we had walls in very bad condition that are now in a one, tip-top shape. frankly, some wall has been reinforced by the military. they've done a fantastic job. they -- we may not have an agreement today. we probably won't. but we have an agreement on other things that are really good. nancy, would you like to say something? >> well, thank you, mr. president. for the opportunity to meet with you so that we can work together in a bipartisan way to meet the needs of the american people.

i think the american people recognize that we must keep the government open. that a shut down is not worth anything, and that we should not have a shut down. you have the white house, you have the senate, you have the house of representatives, you have -- >> president trump: we don't have the votes, nancy. we don't have it in the senate. we need six votes. excuse me. i can't get it passed in the house if it's not grid going ts in the senate. i don't want to waste time. >> we can start that way. >> president trump: the house we can pass easily. nbd. the problem is the senate, because we need ten democrats to vote and they won't vote. >> the point is their equities to be weighed. the fact is, the house republicans could bring up this bill if they had the votes immediately and set the tone for

what you want. >> president trump: we thought we would get it passed in the senate nancy, we would do it mutely. we can get a pastor easily in house. nancy, i will have it passed in two seconds. it doesn't matter, though, because you can't get it passed in the senate because we need ten democrats vote. >> again, let us have our conversation. the fact is, legislating -- which is what we do -- you begin to make your point to state your case. that's what the house republicans will do. there are no votes in the house, a majority of votes, for a wild. no matter where you -- >> president trump: if i needed the votes for the ball in the house, i would have it in one session. it would be done. it wouldn't help because we need ten in the senate. let me ask you this -- we are doing this in a very friendly manner. it doesn't help for me to take a vote in the house where i will win easily with the republicans. it doesn't help to take that vote because i'm not going to

get the vote of the senate. i need ten senators. that's the problem. >> you have the white house, you have the senate -- >> president trump: i have the white house. the white house is done. the house would give me the vote if i wanted it. but i can't because i need -- nancy, i need ten votes from chuck. >> let me say something here. >> let me say one thing. the fact is, you do not have the votes in the house. >> president trump: nancy, i do. we need board security. nancy, nancy. we need border security. need border security. people are flowing into our country, including terrorists. we have terrorists. we caught ten terrorists over the last for a short period of time. ten. these are very serious people. our border agents, all of our law enforcement, has been incredible what they've done. but we have caught ten terrorists. these are people who are looking to do harm. we need the wall. we need it more than anything. we need border security, of which the wall is just a piece. chuck, did you want to say something cuesta mexico here's what i want to say -- we have a

lot of disagreements here. "the washington post" here give you a whole lot of pinocchio's because they say you constantly misstate how much of the wall is built and how much is there. but that's not the point. we have a disagree bit about the wall. whether it's effective or not. not on border security, but the wall. we do not want to shut down the government. you were called at 20 times to shut down the government. you said "i want to shut down the government." we don't. we want to come to an agreement. if we can't come to an agreement, we have solutions that will pass the house and senate right now. and will not chide the government. that's what we'd want you to do. not to threaten to shut down the government. let me finish. because you can't get your way. let me say something, mr. president . you say "my way, or we will shut down the government." we have a proposal with democrats and republicans, that they will support, to do a cr that will not shut down the government. we urge you to take it. >> president trump: and if it's not good border security, i won't take it. if it's not good border security, i won't take it. when you look at these numbers

of the effectiveness of our border security, and when you look at the job that we are doing -- >> but you said it is effective. >> president trump: can i tell you something? >> you just said effective. >> president trump: without a wall these are only areas where you have the wall. when you have walls, chuck, it's effective. when you don't have walls, it is not effective. >> yes. >> let's call a halt to this. we come here as the first branch of government. article one, the legislative branch. we are coming in in good faith to negotiate with you about how we can keep the government open. >> president trump: we are going to keep it open if we have border security. if we don't have border security we aren't going to keep it open. >> i'm with you. we are going to have border security. >> you are bragging about what has been done. what we want to do, the same thing that we did last year this year. that is our proposal. if it's good then, it's good now, and it won't shut down the government. >> president trump: chuck, we can big a much bigger section with the money. >> let's debate in private. okay? >> it's frankly a fax.

>> we need board to secure to come i think we all agree that we need border security. we do. >> president trump: see? we get along. thank you, everybody. >> you say border security and the ball. can you have border security without the wall? >> president trump: you need the wall. the wall is part of border security. we need border security, the wall is a part of border security. you can't have very good border security without the wall. >> not true. that is a political promise. border security is a way to effectively honor our -- >> the expert so you can do border security without a wall, which is wasteful and doesn't solve the problem. >> president trump: it totally solves the problem. it's very -- >> this is vital damage, we are at a place to say -- they have needs. the economy -- people are losing their jobs, the market is in a move. our members -- >> we have the lowest on deployment we've had in 50

years. >> people in the republican party are losing their offices now because of the transition. people are not -- resnick nancy, we gained in the senate. excuse me, did we win the senate? we won the senate. >> when the president brags that he won north dakota and indiana, he's in real trouble. >> president trump: i did. we did win them. >> we came in here in good fait faith. we entered into a discussion in the public view. >> president trump: it's called transparency. >> it's not transparency when we are not sticking to a set of facts. when we want to have a debate with you, we confront them. >> president trump: you know what? we need border security. that's what we will be talking about. border security. if we don't have border security, we will shut down the government. this country needs border security. the wall as a part of border security pray let's have a talk. we are going to get the wall built, and we have got a lot of wall already. it's a big part of it.

it's a big part of it. we need to have effective border security. we need a wall in certain parts. no, not in all parts, but in certain parts of a 2000--mile border. we need a wall. >> how much money? >> president trump: we are doing it much under budget. actually we are way under budget on the areas that we have renovated, and areas that we have built. i would say, if we have $5 billion, we would do a tremendous chunk of wall. we are going to see. this isn't a question, this is a national emergency. drugs are pouring into our country. people with tremendous medical difficulty and medical problems are pouring in, and in many cases, it's contagious. they are pouring into our country. we have to have border security. we have to have a wall as part of border security. i don't think we really disagree so much. i also know that -- you know, nancy is in a situation where it's not easy for her to talk right now.

and i understand that. i fully understand that. we are going to have a good discussion, and we will see what happens. but we have to have border security. >> mr. president, please don't characterize what i bring to this meeting as the leader of the house democrats. >> elections have consequently, mr. president. >> president trump: and that's why the country is doing so well. >> the president is representative of -- we have to have an evidence-based conversation about what does work, what normally has been spent, and how effective it is. this is about our country, taking oath to defend. we don't want to have that mischaracterized by 91. >> president trump: no, i agree with that. >> let us have a conversation we don't have to contradict in public the statistics that you put forth. so we can have a conversation about what we really -- with the american people deserve

from us in these uncertain times in their lives. >> one thing i think we can agree on is that we shouldn't shut down the government over a dispute. you want to shut it down, you keep talking about. >> president trump: the last time, chuck, you shut it down. >> i don't want to do what you did. 20 times you are called for it, you said "i will shut down the government if i don't get my wall." you have said it. >> president trump: you want to know something question mckay will take it. you know what i will say? yes. if we don't get what we want, when we are the other, whether it's the military or anything you want to call, i will shut down the government. i am proud. >> wheat disagree. >> president trump: i am proud to shut down the government for border security, chuck. people in this country don't want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. i will take the mantle. i will be the one to shut it down. i won't blame you for it. the last time, you shut it down. it didn't work. i will take the mantle of shutting it down. i'm going to shut it down for

border security. >> but we believe you shouldn't shut it down. >> president trump: think you very much, everybody. [reporters yelling questions] a lot of people that know chuck and nancy very well want to. we have a lot of people who want the job of chief of staff. we will be seeing what happens very soon. we are in no rush. no rush. why? because we have a wonderful chief of staff right now. we are in no rush. over a period of a week or two, maybe less, will announce who it's going to be. but we have a lot of people who want the position. thank you very much, everybody. >> harris: wow. interesting. i'm still time to figure out why

nancy pelosi didn't want us to see that. that was more than the sausage being made. that had every ingredient. >> it was awesome. >> harris: on what the argument is about. jason chaffetz, i can only imagine on the hill right now. everybody watched that saying "you know what? the president is right about what americans have said they wanted. the president is right that it was the schumer shut down. the president is right that nancy pelosi might be in a little bit of hot water with her own democrats to become speaker of the house in january." so, where do the democrats come in now? >> jason: that was as raw as it gets. i wish we could have just may be left one little camera in there. >> harris: you mean after we were told to leave? >> jason: the outcome after we were told to leave. nevertheless, i think this was semantics. if you agree on border security, some want to call it defense, some don't want to call it a wall. the election is passed. we need to need to do what's b. $5 billion is less than the $20 billion the president says

that he wants. the shutdown is not government-wide -- most of the preparations have already passed. 75% of the government is on autopilot anyway. we are talking about homeland security, a vital part of our government. i think the president is showing that he let this go and he let it go, and now is his chance. he has to hold the line. that's what he is signaling. he is going to shut down that portion of the government if he doesn't get the wall. >> harris: all right, so, you have the democrats in the room. who did you want to be? may be vice president pence. it was like watching a tennis match back and forth. how do you think your political side did? >> marie: i think they stood up to the president quite strongly, which i like in a couple of ways. the president tried to go back and forth with nancy pelosi, they engage with him. the most important thing i heard from democrats was when chuck schumer said "we have a deal that the democrats and the republicans both support to avoid a shut down. that's why we are here. it's not to fix the immigration system at large, is to avoid a shut down. we can pass it, in a bipartisan

manner, get it to your desk today." and the president said "i will except the blame. if it's not what i want, it's not what i want. i will let it shut down." >> harris: that's not what he said. >> melissa: in the conversation today -- >> harris: no, that's what he said. >> melissa: what he says is that we all want border security. he said "i will take a shut down if you guys will not passport security. doesn't anybody want border security? ">> marie: he defines it. >> melissa: it's as he defines it, as you defined a come as chuck and nancy to find it. it's such a b.s. i think everybody wants to just call b.s. on the whole thing because we all know you aren't talking about a wall versus not a wall. they are talking about the same thing. enhanced border security all over the place. when we call it a big fuzzy teddy bear? so that we don't have to fight over the word "wall" anymore. it was ridiculous -- rather than having people go to the microphone and stand there and just pontificate, to see them actually go back and forth and call each other out -- i thought

that was really instructive and fantastic. >> harris: lisa, why did nancy pelosi -- she said more than once. "let's not let the press -- let's not let people see us go back and forth." you know that the country knows this is what it looks like. >> lisa: i think nancy pelosi is feeling the pressure of the speakership in front of her, and trying to get that -- >> harris: he called her out on it. >> marie: she hit back, hard. >> lisa: democrats are getting a lot of pressure from her base and immigration activists over daca. this is something democrats have been dangling in front of them, promising them. resident obama said he would get it done during his first term. he did not. last year we saw nancy pelosi getting shada down over the issue. they are facing pressure they are but nancy pelosi doesn't want to give a lot of ground because she's worried about getting that speaker's gavel. melissa is absolutely right, this is about semantics over the term "wall." democrats don't want to give president trump his key signature issue. it's so dominant. >> harris: in case people are just tuning in, we want to go back to some of what we just saw

because it was so fiery. nancy pelosi was saying "you need democrat support." i know you guy's girl that already, but can we go back to where she says she controls washington? the president says he agrees that they do need democrats to get something passed. let's watch that part. >> president trump: it's not an easy situation, because the democrats have a different view. i think we have great republican support. we don't have democrat support. but we are going to talk about that now. we are going to see -- one thing i do have to say is tremendous amounts of wall have already been billed. >> harris: that was interest in, when he said what they have already got allocation four. >> jason: let's get to the reality of how the votes have been. you'll need a simple majority last three nancy pelosi kept saying they can't get there. >> harris: why she sang that? >> jason: i don't know. they have already passed it. it's already passed in the

house. they only need a simple majority. you can have every democrat in the house now vote against it and it still passes. >> lisa: the republican caucus a split on this and -- >> jason: they already passed it. >> marie: you can criticize her for a lot of things, she does that count votes. doesn't make claims about will also say, she isn't worried about the speakership. it is should be. she's not there yet. >> marie: i'm telling you, she is much less -- >> jason: we will see on january 3rd. >> harris: is she really counting the votes that have already passed the $5 billion? far short of what the president really wanted, which is $25 billion. so he has all ready compromise. he has to do that because he couldn't even get republican desk of his own party to come on board months ago. if you counting those votes, or is she counting looking ahead, telegraphing "oh, heck, if i do this now i won't have the votes i need in january." >> marie: i think she's looking at a republican caucus that is very split on this.

i think some people in the freedom caucus believe he should shut the government down to get more money. their public and caucus is not all on board with it. she is counting votes on whether they can -- >> harris: i will ask the team if they can find this one part. it shouldn't be too hard. last time you shut down the government -- briefly and personally fine with shutting the government down, as the congress and pointed out, the partial shutdown -- people will forget about this by 2020 so i don't think it will impact republicans politically. i think it's important to hunker down and tried to get that funding. i also think it's a much bigger than that. we also have to address issues and central americans seeking asylum in the rate down there. just this year we are seeing a 67% increase, a 1700% increase in seeking asylum over the last ten years alone. 89% of those people are going to pass that first initial interview, only 9% are going to actually be granted asylum. a lot of those people become the 22 million illegal immigrants that are living in the united states. >> harris: it's bigger than the ball. >> melissa: in this

conversation we saw exactly what the american people hate. speed when i'm cutting it with breaking news. pelosi and schumer walking to the microphones outside the white house. we'll be call a steak opportunity prayed let's pop up and watch. >> as i mentioned to the president, the president has the white house. he is the senate. he has the house of representatives all in republican-controlled. he has the power to keep the government open. instead, he has admitted in this meeting that he will take responsibility. the trumpet shutdown is something that can be uploaded , and the american people do not need in this time of economic uncertainty. people losing jobs, the market on the move. it is a luxury. the trumpet shutdown is a luxury to the american people cannot afford. we told the presidents, our distinguished senate leader will talk about two proposals to the president. after those proposals were made

made -- >> okay. the bottom line is simple -- of the president made clear that he wants a shutdown. his position, if he sticks to his position for $5 billion for a wall, he will get no wall, and he will get a shutdown. the bottom line is very, very simple. that is, we want border security. we offered him border security, but americans know that the wall -- and not paid by mexico anymore -- is not the way to border security. the experts say that. we offered the president two ways to avoid a shutdown. first, pass the six other appropriations bills that have been agreed to by the democrats and republicans and do a one-year extension of the homeland security billed by what is called acr, which funds at the same way it funded it last

year. or, do a one-year cr for all seven remaining appropriations bills. both of those ways -- we give the president two ways, each of which would get a majority of votes in the house and 60 votes in the senate. and will avoid a shutdown. we hope he will take it, because a shutdown hurts too many innocent people. this trumpet shutdown -- this temper tantrum that he seems to throw -- will not get him his wall, and it will hurt a lot of people because he will cause a shutdown. he admitted he wanted a shutdown. it is hard to believe that he would want that. >> unfortunately, the president chooses to shut down the government, that we have a trump shutdown as a holiday president to the american peopl people. i told the president that the new house of representatives, when it convenes, will pass what

mr. schumer suggested here, what the distinguished senate leader suggested, in terms of passing the sixth appropriation bills that are in the bipartisan way and have a continued resolution until september 30th for the homeland security billed period during which time we can discuss these issues further. we told the president that would happen, we would send it to the senate. he says "we can pass it in the house, right now." he doesn't have the votes in the house. to pass whatever his agenda is with that wall in it. we are telling him, we will keep the government open, with a proposal that mr. schumer suggested. why doesn't he just think about it? in fact, i asked him to pray over it. >> one final point. no, no, no. stop. okay? one final point. the $1.3 billion that we gave him last year for border security -- no wall, but border

security -- less than 6% of it has been spent. they haven't even spent last year's money, and now they are demanding much, much more this year. we are just going to take questions on this subject only. >> given what we saw in there, the bickering, the back and forth, what does it say about your ability to work with this president over the next two years? >> i told the president, as i've said over and over again, this new congress will be something different from the congress we have now. it will be a congress of transparency, so that the american people can see. not passing the tax bill with $7 trillion in the economy in the dark, so nobody can see what it is without hearing expert opinions on it. they have transparency, and it will be without reaching out. extending the hand of friendship to work in a bipartisan way to find common ground. so we can stand our ground.

as thomas jefferson, like a rocket, where we can. about honoring the guidance of our founders. we didn't come here to divide. we came here to unify. we extend that hand of friendship to him, that course of action. he does tell mike if he does nt accept that hand of friendship, we will still be who we are. dignified, respectful of the institution that we are present in the congress, and honoring the vision of our founders. >> reporter: was a more productive behind the scenes customer >> i will see this. you want to know who is more productive behind the scenes? i hear some of the reporters saying -- well, fox reporter saying "why do we not want transparency in this discussion question" we don't want to contradict the president when he is putting forth figures that have no reality. no basis in fact. we have this -- regardless of all this, we have evidence-based

factual, truthful information about what works and what doesn't. i didn't want you in front of those people thing "you don't know what you're talking about." >> one other thing here -- the president said things are working quite well at the border. we want to give them the same thing he had last year, if they are working well last year they should work well this year. he shouldn't shutdown the government. thank you, everybody. >> harris: well, she called out fox reporters. not one reporter said "hey, nancy pelosi! chuck schumer! why did you shutdown the government earlier this year question" if these terms are all going to remain the same, why did they shut down the government? jason chaffetz? >> jason: you can't simultaneously claim they want to maximize transparency and say "get out of the room, we don't want to talk anymore." i don't buy that, and i don't buy the democrat's money to secure the border. they wanted to shut down ice, they were encouraging of the caravan.

it's absolutely 100% true. >> marie: the democratic caucus -- >> jason: it's you are the oneo entered scripted me >> marie: i'm going to interrupt you. the democrats do not support shutting down ice. individual members talk about it, but the caucus did not. >> jason: you don't hear any republicans talk about it. >> marie: they are not supporting the cat down my caravan. that has been repeatedly debunked on my predon't repeat it for our viewers, please. >> jason: i horribly believe, in my heart -- >> marie: you might feel it, but there's no evidence. no evidence, no evidence. none. >> jason: it's not true. we disagree on that one. >> harris: lisa? >> lisa: melissa, did you want to get in? >> melissa: i think it's incredible that you watch the two sides go back and forth and you see the stupidity of government. this is exactly the thing i think that makes americans so frustrated and what they voted

against. essentially, if you were watching that, you saw that they were actually agreeing on a time, which is this idea that you need to border security. it was when the semantics of the wall came up that all of the sudden everyone on both sides get completely hysterical. i think if we banned that word, they would have a deal tomorrow. when they talk about shutting down the government. i do, because they are already funding it. $5 billion. >> harris: she made a personal. >> marie: he made it personal. trump made it personal. >> melissa: zero spending come in terms of shutting down the government, will hurt american people? no. the government -- shutting it down, it's so partial. it's such a dumb threat. nobody cares. we all knew our government wasn't doing anything anyway. >> harris: those are the facts. the whole idea -- i want to go back to nancy pelosi before i digress too much, because i made this statement and i can back it up. she made it personal because she didn't want us to see that. she didn't -- and she made you

know a jab at fox reporter. whoever is in the press corps. she didn't want us to be able to see that. she didn't want the public to be able to see. i quote she says that we are looking forward to a congress of transparency." "it will be a congress of transparency." apparently he can't be a meeting called by the president of the united states transparent. because my question it because she's in it? because she doesn't want to see them going back and forth? >> marie: the real negotiating does not happen with 20t 2020 v cameras. >> harris: why? why does have to be that way question xp five because i worked in government for 20 years. >> harris: i'm asking you to have some. you have not actually set in that seat. >> marie: i have been in the oval office. >> harris: but not as the president. >> marie: of course, harris. but i participated in negotiation. in the government, yes, she wanted to get down to brass tacks. what is the president willing to give?

>> harris: how do you know that question xp >> marie: because that's what negotiation is about. >> melissa: in good faith -- >> marie: it's very difficult -- >> melissa: it's better when they do in front of the camera seek and see what they are saying. >> marie: it doesn't work. >> harris: it does work. >> marie: that's entertainment. it is not where the real substance gets done. give me an example that has actually done something to give me one. now, give me one. give me one. nothing gets done! nothing got agreed to. nothing got agreed to. >> lisa: nancy pelosi also said that we should be a great alternative to the wall and something we should be -- i don't know if she's the voice of the lady, but is present trump point out on his twitter , he wanted the -- democrats hillary clinton, president obama, dianne feinstein -- giant fights at the time said that they were behind securing the southern border.

it's a problem of president trump because it does seem to be the sticking point. >> melissa: these are all dumb fights over semantics. >> harris: speaking of dumb fights over semantics, here is chuck schumer. >> the bottom line is simple -- the president made clear that he wants a shut down. his position, if he sticks to his position for $5 billion for the wall, he will get no wall and he will get no get a shut . >> melissa: if you go back and look at the transcript, that's not what he said prayed he said he wants border wall funding. he didn't say it has to be the $5 billion or he shutting it down. he said he wants border security. they all agreed that they want border security. and he set up a cult you are the way to keep saying you want to shut on the government." and ending and he said "yes, i would be willing to shut down the government if we don't get border security." >> harris: and they called it a trump shut down. i think that was disgusting.

they way they try to spin and wrap it around and caught a trump shut down. i think the present was pretty good. "you want to put blame on the customer go ahead and put it down." we are right, as chuck schumer said, elections do have consequences. this is a hallmark of the term candidacy. he beat out 16 or so other republicans based on this. and he wanted the white house based on this. he needs to get get a breedingo spend a million dollars to every day, it would take almost 3,000 years to get the $1 trillion. we spend a trillion dollars every 90 days. when we're talking about $5 billion to try and -- the one thing, by the way, that they also did agree on -- all these other appropriations bills. they have said that the democrats and republicans agree. so, pass those out! pass them out right now. don't hold those hostage for the negotiation. >> harris: i didn't understand that either, marie. the first option is to do the six appropriation bills that have already been agreed upon, and then to hold until septemben

national security. >> marie: right. >> harris: option two is to not pass anything and hold everything for a year. >> marie: option two is doing all the cr. >> harris: that's what i said prayed for a year. >> marie: it's not just semantics, its apology discriminate. it's not just calling at the wall. >> harris: why not pass we've already agreed on? >> marie: i agree, they should pass what they've agreed on. they should do acr. >> melissa: what's the fun and it's a difference between what they're talking about? what is a question mark >> marie: jim acosta believe we should spend this much money on something the experts say aren't necessary. >> harris: when he come back, we will hear the section why the president said he would be willing to take responsibility over a shut down if it doesn't happen in certain ways, getting the ball here is another laundry hack from home made simple. do you want ready to wear clothing without all the hassle? you can, with bounce dryer sheets. simply toss two sheets in the dryer to iron less.

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>> harris: we have just seen something up close and remarkable happening of the white house, with the president sitting down with leadership for democrats nancy pelosi and the house and chuck schumer in the senate. it got trippy, as we like to say in hockey. people were up against the wall. it was very interesting. there is one point when the president and leaned in and said "you know what? the american people need and deserve national security. the wall." and then he said this -- watch. >> president trump: 1 thing i think we can agree on is we shouldn't shut down the government over a dispute and you want to shut it down. you keep talking about it. >> president trump: the last time, chuck, you shut it down. >> no, no, no. you called for "i would shut on the government if i don't get my wall." none of us wanted to do it. >> president trump: you know what? yes. if we don't get what we want, one way or another, whether it's through you, through the military, through anything you want to call, i will shut down the government.

>> harris: jason? >> jason: yeah, we are cheering on the president. this will be like them to do, is hold a tough line. this is not an over ask. something he can pound campaign and one on. i think you make in people are behind it. >> harris: aneesa lindsey graham, senator graham, so yesterday "this is what you ought to do," there are republicans in the set up a that's why that pickup of republicans just in the midterms is so critical, too. the historic pickup for them in the senate. dispute don't ask me to its overage to hear them talk about spending one-tenth of 1% of the. we are hemorrhaging money everywhere. this is for border security, which they swear that they want. so, to sit here and say that they are going to allow a shutdown to happen because they won't give the president this teeny bit of funding on a signature issue is the height of hypocrisy, especially when they

sit there and insist that they would also like border security. >> harris: i follow-up with you, because i know we will head quickly into a break. you say that there are pieces where the two sides can come together. how? >> melissa: by putting a piece of funding in place. it's nothing. it's a drop in the bucket. it's obviously needed. it's something they say that they are for. the word, "well," nobody can say it ever again. say "fuzzy teddy bear" instead. don't say "wall." >> harris: is that possible? can we supplant the word "wall?" >> lisa: fuzzy teddy bear does sound nice. let's call it a multidimensional system. whatever you want to call it. secretary nielsen said before congress, this isn't just an actual physical barrier. it's going to be multidimensional. i do think there are national secure to concerts. remember, secretary nielsen was saying recently that there are 500 criminal gang members mixed among that caravan trying to get into the united states. i think those concerns are real. >> harris: we've got to head to the mezzanine, because we've got the next hour with more fire from the conversation and other things that have been breaking off on the hill since he been on

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funding and the continuing resolution. you think anything was achieved question asked b6 i do, i think he got to err both of these sites out. i think the president has been crystal clear he wants a wall. i think the democrats have failed. what a security? if it wants a wall, what is it? what is security? >> marie: what term voters voted for was mexico paying for the wall. not u.s. it's a combination of technology come of drums, fencing and some parts, but not an entire wall. >> melissa: that's exactly where republicans are saying. the >> marie: at some of the present is talking about. >> lisa: the president to use the word "wall" because it sounds better on the campaign trail. but as they lead on congress, it's multidimensional here that's what you laid out. speak to drones, fencing and subleases, there are places you can't have fencing. and more security. everybody greece is a good idea. >> lisa: we met and on some agreement here.

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he's like "i'm not getting in the middle of this." >> lisa: we were all wondering what he was thinking. he was just hanging that quietly. >> melissa: we are back tomorrow at noon eastern. for now, here is harris. >> harris: fox news alert, shut down show down inside the oval office. it was fire and ice. i'm harris faulkner. "outnumbered overtime" now. democrat leader senator chuck schumer and congresswoman nancy pelosi just met with the president to do a deal to avoid a partial government shutdown. the president has repeatedly said if it came to that, our national security at stake, he would shut it down. the house has passed the $5 billion he wants for his border ball, but he needs senate democrats to get that funding. then the cameras were rolling as the president and the two top democrats clashed. >> the fact is, we do not have the votes in the house. >> president trump: nancy, i do parade we need border security. nanc