[laughter] >> bill: okay, waiting on this standby here in the moment. we will take you back and said the court. we've got to run and handed over to our colleagues at "outnumbered" ." >> sandra: it will continue. thanks for joining us. the "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: we begin with a fox news alert. we are awaiting the sentencing. it could happen any moment now, of former trump national security advisor michael flynn. flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi over contact with russia, prussia's ambassador. today, flynn told the judge he was aware that lying to the fbi is a crime. this is to is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. fox news contributor, lisa boothe. former ohio senate democrat minority leader, capri cafaro. joining us in the center seat, a man you want a long with the legal stuff getting obligated. fox news senior judicial analyst, judge

andrew napolitano. >> judge napolitano: best intro in the business, ms. falconer. >> harris: thank you, judge. flynn's lawyers claimed the fbi told their client that he didn't need a lawyer present, and they never warned him not to live. but today, when judge sullivan asked the attorney if you believed his client was entrapped, the answer was no. last week, robert mueller submitted documents to the judge detailing how the interview was conducted, and blasted general flynn over his attorney's claim that said he chose to lie but still recommended no jail time for flynn. resident trump this morning tweeted this. "good luck today in court to general michael flynn. will be interesting to see what he has to say despite tremendous pressure being put on him about russian collusion in our great and obviously highly successful political campaign." there was no collusion!" that, from the president. meanwhile, harvard law professor alan dershowitz agrees with the claims about the fbi conduct. watch it. >> i think that flynn was

coerced into pleading guilty to a crime of which he was innocent. he was coerced by threats against his son, against his fortune, and the reason i think he was innocent is even if he told an untruth -- which it seems as if he did -- it was not a material untruth. the government already knew everything they ask him about. when you ask a question that you already know the answer to, i do have proof of the answer, there is only one purpose to the question. and that is to elicit a lie. >> harris: our chief intelligence correspondent, catherine herridge, is actually inside the courtroom. as soon as she can come out and fill us in on what's happening right now, she will and she will join us in just a few minutes. let's bring it up to the couch. my first question for you -- does the judge go to work with a notepad that says "if you take responsibility, i will do this. if you don't, i'll do this," or is it pretty set already cost and mike >> judge napolitano: that's a good question. i have sentence over a thousand people over my career in the

new jersey state system, which uses guidelines substantially similar to the federal. sending things today is effectively a mathematical function. yes, you do check boxes. however, when there is an agreement with the defendant to that the maximum sentence will be six years, and when the government says the defendant has helped them so much that they recommend zero, something the government never says, the defendant wants zero, the government want zero. it's pretty obvious what the judge is going to do. >> harris: would it be irrespective of that help? even if he hadn't helped out "substantially" in any way, and we know that from wording that was used for michael cohen, for example -- even if that weren't the case, this is a man who served his country for decades before this. does that play a role? the importance of his leadership in the military? >> judge napolitano: yes. the importance that the service the person has performed, whether in the military or civilian life, is one of those boxes that the court will check when, basically, you are bouncing what is called the

aggravating factors -- who was harmed by the crime -- and the mitigating factors. what good has the defendant caused. this sentencing is unique. it's unique because -- excuse me, melissa -- it's unique because of the allegations made in the 11th hour by general flynn's lawyers. which i thought were inappropriate. when the government says zero, that's the best thing you want. the allegations were "our client wasn't treated fairly, he was manipulated." >> harris: why do you think they did that? >> judge napolitano: i think they thought that this judge, who has a backbone of seal, would be so aggravated at what e fbi did that he might through the whole thing out. >> melissa: let me tell you what he's aggravated by pretty talked with the mitigating circumstances here, and the aggravating circumstances. the judge, we are being told, has said "i'm going to be frank with you, this crime is very serious. on the premises of the white house, up until that point, you had an unblemished career in the service history." but then he goes on to say after a few more lines, "we are going

to take into concern your military sacrifice, but i am also going to take into concern those allies that cause the vice president elected to lie to the american public about three different topics, making false statements, serving as a white house security advisor." he goes on to say "arguably, you sold your country out." >> judge napolitano: that is a very, very harsh analysis of this. one that totally undermines the argument that president trump has been saying. i'm glad you read that. before that, here's what happened in the courtroom -- general flynn, "when you pleaded guilty before me, you pleaded guilty under oath. we told the truth?" "yes." "were you in fact guilty?" "yes." >> did you need a lawyer their quest to mark no. do you want to postpone the under stomach sentencing cost and arc i understand you are still cooperative with

government. "no, i want to give us annexing over with." >> harris: why tell the judge say they want to accept her son's ability? and go back on your word. technically, were you telling the truth? when he said he didn't like? and i you say "no, absolutely, i did. i take responsibility." >> judge napolitano: when he pleaded guilty six months ago, the plea was under oath. he said "i lied." today he reiterated and said he takes full response bill before it. what melissa read is is a very harsh view of what he did paired one that undermines the president's view, which is that this was nothing. >> lisa: why is it inappropriate, though, for flynn's attorneys to raise concerns? particularly in a time when you have james comey admitting that they went outside the typical fbi protocol. they took advantage of this white house. why would it be inappropriate? >> judge napolitano: they did go against protocol, they did take a branch of the white house. there's no good reason for fbi agents to be roaming the halls of the west wing, knocking on

doors, and saying "hey, can we talk to you?" >> melissa: for one more second, there is more said here. >> harris: let me step in for once i second, because we just found out from a control room that they are in recess now. they are in recess for about another 20 minutes or so. then we expect some movement in this, and when it happens, of course, we will bring it to you. melissa? >> melissa: this was the really important part. when we were talking about earlier, what is it that he admitted to? he admitted to lying print arguably, folks are saying it wasn't much of a lie. why would you admit to that? some have said there is a larger crime underneath. some -- the judge says, "all along you are an unregistered agent for another country while serving as the national security advisor." >> lisa: that is the key. >> melissa: that goes along with what we saw in terms of his two colleagues were charge of that same climb down that crime men who have played to that same crime. and why he would be now --

>> capri: one of the things i think this brings up is the fact that he is hunting about the fact that there is a much larger crime, here. >> melissa: he's not hitting anymore. >> capri: he's also saying he's not hiding at the same as a goes on. because that is a more substantial crime with that could carry a larger sentence, under the federal sentencing guidelines, he is getting a deal and a bargain by pleading to this charge. which is why he -- >> harris: that's why the judge said "why would you speak up if the answer is zero?" >> judge napolitano: correct. the answer to your question, lisa, is a great question. why was it critical to the lawyers customer when the government says zero, remain silent. the time to attack the government has long passed. it's a little late. >> harris: why do you think they did that, then? is there some strategy? because capri says there's could be something under the table more serious. >> judge napolitano: they agreed, as part of the plea, never to charge him for failure to register. they charged his two buddies. the three of them worked

together. one of them as a turkish national, got charge for representing the turkish government in the united states. look, one of the questions the judge asked the prosecutor's -- "could general flynn have been charged with treason?" the answer? "i'm hesitant to answer that. because it is such a serious question." the judge, to general flynn. "there is no guarantee that, if you are sentenced today, you could be incarcerated." "judge, can we have a break for half an hour? ">> harris: i'm not hiding my discussion of the disdain for the criminal offenses. it really stands out in my mind. no matter how you go forward, this is now oppositional to what the president has been saying. that this is a smaller, more tightly-box situation. this judge -- i have more questions, now. >> lisa: this love questions. i think lobbying on behalf of turkeys the bigger issue. in my opinion, regarding flynn.

probably a good reason is that the national secure advisor. the idea that somehow he violated the logan act, which is what sally yates told congress, was the initial concern and why the fbi ended up interviewing flynn to begin with. i have an issue with that, because the logan act, over 200 years old, nobody has ever been prosecuted under it. as the national security advisor, he had every reason and every right to talk to kislyak, talk to the ambassador and these other nations. >> harris: hold on a second. couldn't the democrats invite him to some pretty -- kislyak -- to some pretty high-level thing? the state of the union. and james comey's style is "is my memory serving the?" >> lisa: ethic the challenge and the difference is -- i'm not defending the democrats, but i think the difference is, the issue that people bring up about flynn is should he have been engaging in diplomatic talks while he was not yet --

>> harris: now you're talking about flynn pritt i was talking about kislyak. >> judge napolitano: this is why -- lisa is correct. the logan act prohibits a private person from conducting the foreign policy of the united -- >> but he's not necessarily a private person in that context. >> harris: let's get back to melissa. she has a bottom line hashtag for this. >> melissa: is not about any of that. it's about the turkey thing. when you look at what the judge said, it's about what these other things going on prayed he was still in the services of the turkish government. and he was the national security advisor. this isn't about russia. necessarily. it's one of the factors. the real conflict here is the fact that he was an unregistered foreign agent. that's the bottom line. >> harris: i want to follow-up with you, melissa come on this one point -- do you think that we would have known that if it hadn't been for the russia investigation? how much of this wasn't that sort of lateral gymnastics move that we seen the mueller investigation do, and other

prosecutors doing in this. hands-off cases. >> melissa: i don't know if that's a great question. because we don't know how they originally realized that he was still -- they investigated flynn, we don't know how they originally realized that he was a foreign agent of turkey. >> with that matter? >> judge napolitano: they had taped his phone conversations. jennifer general flynn's flesh e miller was the defense agency. translate come all the military spies. he knows these phone calls are tapped. he knows that kislyak was not only the ambassador, but was a kgb contact and was being monitored every place you entered every conversation he had in the u.s. just like they do the same to our ambassador in moscow. intelligence and law enforcement and knew what kislyak was saying, and to whom he was speaking. one of those people happened to be mike flynn. >> harris: hold on one second, i want to go back to melissa on this point on turkey. look at all that has transpired with turkey and just the last few months. okay, you've got a u.s.-based "washington post" columnist who

was killed on turkish soil, inside of saudi arabia and consulate. not that all things connect back, but as interest income the layering of the most recent history. >> melissa: it also points out why they would be a focus on turkey. when you say that, in some cases, or anyone says they don't necessarily -- like, if you go back afterwards and register they were in agent in the past, that happens a lot. it's not that big of deal. but your point, and it's a very good one, is the reason why it really does matter is because turkey is not a normal friend and country. we are having a lot of challenges there. >> lisa: two points and want to make. one, you had mentioned sort of defending, it seemed, sally yates' concern over the logan act. to that same point, you have john kerry literally meeting with leaders in iran trying to undermine the administration. trying to undermine the administration -- >> melissa: but were they paying him? >> lisa: policy on iran. >> melissa: that's what we're talking about. >> lisa: there's also another

point. violations have it all the time, and very rarely are they prosecuted. a lot of people in washington, d.c., would be in a lot of trouble doing business with shady governments, and not registering. the >> judge napolitano: you are talking about the innocent failure of -- >> melissa: but they are not and currently the national security advisor while that is going on. >> lisa: my only point is there is a -- >> harris: i need to step in with the breaking news, here. the judge just asked flynn, or had asked flynn, just a short time ago before they went to a break, if you wanted to move forward with the sentencing. he repeatedly says yes prayed he said he said that earlier, now we are getting -- >> judge napolitano: we are getting it over with. >> harris: the judge says, if he continues now -- we don't even know if they're coming back, now. if he continues, now, there is no guarantee he won't face incarceration. and ask if you wanted to talk it over with his lawyers, and flynn said yes. we can only assume that they are coming back in, and they will tell us something. but this kind of texture to the

reporting, via our catherine herridge who is inside the courtroom right now, says what to you, judge? >> judge napolitano: that this judge, whom general flynn's lawyers might actually throughout the conviction because the manner in which the fbi treated and mistreated him, in fact, may be harsher on general flynn then the government has asked him to be. and is intimating that he will not go along with the government's recommendation of zero jail time. this is almost unheard of for the government to say zeros jail time and for the court not to go along with that. >> capri: but is not entirely uncommon. a >> judge napolitano: . it's not totally unheard of, but it's rare. >> capri: very, very rare. the sentencing guidelines are just that. they provide basically some categories and some boundaries, but there is still a lot of judicial discretion on behalf of the federal -- on behalf of the judge. he >> harris: let me step in with this question. i want to make sure we've got this straight. so, it's not unprecedented, but it is rare. what takes it from "we hardly

ever see this" to "we could see this today? ">> judge napolitano: because the judge made the leave, that general flynn got too good a deal. that the evidence of criminal behavior like we are talking about, representing a foreign government in the united states while he was the president's national security advisor. to the president know about this? the judge feels and they feel that this is of such gravity that the government's rep recommend action of zero is too light. >> melissa: or he wants to know the extent of its corporation. he wants to know what exactly he is getting in order to have this life sentence light sentence. >> harris: that information, is that sealed? can we all know that, or only judge sullivan? >> judge napolitano: i don't know if we will know it until bob mueller is ready to release it. we don't know what the cooperation was or how they will use it. >> harris: so they won't tell the judge today. >> judge napolitano: the judge asked if he was still cooperating, and the prosecutors said yes.

and the judge said "why am i sentencing him? we usually don't sentence until the cooperation is over with." it's been postponed for a year. >> harris: isn't that a basic question? are you still using him in a federal level with investigators? would not be like the first thing -- open go before i get my coffee, let me find out if i can even --" >> judge napolitano: normally don't want to sentence until the cooperation is over with, so the court knows the full extent of the cooperation. >> harris: wide and we know that before? >> judge napolitano: if general flynn had been charged with everything the government could have charged him with, and if he had been found guilty of everything the government could have charged him with, he was exposed to 60 -- 6-0 -- years in jail. as opposed to six months for the government is recommend and zero. how do you get from 60 down to zero? he told the government a lot that they wanted to hear. >> harris: why wouldn't the judge have asked the question,

as melissa put it, why don't you ask before today "are you done with him? ">> capri: maybe i can answer the question with another question. because there may be some things that we don't necessarily know about that, that could potentially become a against the statute of limitations preventing to face of something that's called disagreement. if you're cooperating with the government, the new say "i am cool with continuing to toll the statute of limitations in order to cooperate." is not necessarily talked about often, but it could be -- >> judge napolitano: but the representation of turkey without being an agent, and the land to the fbi is well within the statute of limitations. those things have five-year statutes, and these events occurred a year ago. >> harris: i want to give lisa a quick last word. >> lisa: i was going to ask you, judge, how much does impact this being a counterintelligence investigation as opposed to a criminal investigation with the amount of information that mueller has to release to the public and/or this judge? >> judge napolitano: since the patriot act blended intelligence and law enforcement, since i got

rid of the wall that used to be there, doesn't matter how they get it. if they acquire evidence from their intelligence investigation, they can use it in a criminal prosecution. >> harris: thank you. we are waiting now, because they have been patient pushed back l 12:30 p.m. eastern or soapy that would be about 11 minutes from now that we might see everybody return to the courtroom. we've got our chemist perch and we've got our catherine herridge, our chief intelligence correspondent, inside the courtroom as well. we're ready to bring in the news as it happens, from the sentencing of michael flynn. keep watching. plus, former fbi directory james comey unleashed on president trump and house republicans after his close-doric testimony on the russian investigation. now the white house is firing back at all of this on a busy day of news. stay glued. ♪ >> we have to stop being numb to it, whether you are a republican or democrat. you need to stand on your feet, overcome your shame, and say something. ♪

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>> melissa: right now the court is in recess as we are awaiting the final sentencing of michael flynn, former national security advisor. a short time ago, we heard from inside the courtroom from judge emmet sullivan with some very harsh and strong words against what michael flynn had done.

really, calling into question this potential sentence of no time that michael flynn was supposed to get. he issued a very strong rebuke, not only of his own lies, but the fact that he got vice president mike pence to live to the american public. the judge saying that, "in a way, you sold out your country." a very stiff rebuke, they are. now you are looking at the lower part of your screen as the court remains in recess until 12:30. we will bring you that breaking news just as soon as we get more from the courtroom. we have catherine herridge inside. we will give you the latest, the very second it happens. in the meantime, former fbi director james comey lashing out at house republicans after what he described as frustrating closed-door testimony on capitol hill yesterday. it was his second capitol hill appearance this month, to face questions on the hillary clinton probe. and, what he knew about the anti-trump dossier and the launch of the russia probe.

here is it coming, to reporters. >> another day of the other clinton's email's and the steel dossier. this, while the president of united states is lying about the fbi, attacking the fbi, and attacking the rule of law in this country. how does that make any sense at all? republicans use to understand that the actions of a president matter, the words of a president matter, the rule of law matters, and the truth matters. >> melissa: reporters also questioning comey about his decision to skirt standard procedures and send fbi agents to interview then-national security advisor, michael flynn, and the white house. here is comey on why he did not inform the acting attorney general, sally aids, until the day those agents were interviewing flynn. >> i knew that if anything came of the interview, it would advance our investigation. the attack on the trump administration would be that an obama holdover engineered it. i had to make a decision separate from her, to leave them

with her only opportunity. to challenge it would be to bring down the entire fbi. to my shock and horror, they tried to do just that. in the face of silence from people in this building. >> melissa: white house press secretary sarah sanders responding on twitter, calling him a shameless fraud. today, saying that -- >> they threw fbi protocol out the windows for one window, and one reason only -- because it was the trump administration. they thought they could come and they thought they could get away with it. we are arguing that he was certainly ambushed, and that the fbi, that we know had clear political bias -- we have seen that time and time again -- one thing we are 100% sure on is that the president made the right decision in firing james comey. >> melissa: meantime, the joint house panel is also expected to interview former obama attorney general loretta lynch as early as tomorrow. it judge, i will ask you -- it seems like james comey loves to go and stand in front of a camera and talk about why he had to usurp someone else's authority.

in this case, not telling sally yates was going on -- in order to save the republic. >> judge napolitano: i thought he was pretty cogent and what he said. i can understand his frustration. all the questions are coming from republicans and they seem to be politically motivated. the attacks on the fbi, the efforts to undermine it by the chief law enforcement of the united states, the president, has been met with silence from the supposedly law and order republicans. that is the take away that i got from what comey just said. i think he also feels that the hillary clinton thing's history. why are we going for it now? the sally yates thing is history. why are we going for it now? >> melissa: what about the fisa warrant and the dossier? >> judge napolitano: listen, i have signed search warrants where i later learned that the officials who came to me and sought the search warrant didn't tell me everything. they either didn't know it at the time, or they learned it afterward. >> harris: did you punish them? >> judge napolitano: i negated the fruits of the search warrant. that doesn't stop the

investigation. that doesn't make the defendant be set free. it just prevents them from using that item that they seized. >> lisa: i would like to respond to you, judge. first of all, you have, regarding the dossier, james comey was the one that briefed president trump on the dossier. cnn was looking for a news hook. we know that. after the meeting, it leaked and the dossier was published. i wonder why, and i who is behind a question mark i have questions about that. also, regarding james comey, if anybody wants have concerned if there is bias or animus against this president with james comey at the helm, listen to him now. this is a guy who actively told americans to vote against republicans, who has been outspoken in his criticism against president trump. so you think that peter strzok and lisa page were alone in their bias and animus against his president question ? clearly, it started at the top with james comey. he is lying to congress, he leaked information. this guy has violated his entire -- the hallmark of his career as fbi director is usurping government protocol and

fbi protocol. the ig called him out in his report for that promise that he was insubordinate. president trump, the longer comey has been out there, president trump is further justified in firing him. >> capri: i want to split the baby between what you're saying about judge napolitano is saying. >> harris: be kind to the baby. don't throw it out with the bathwater. the >> capri: i will be nicer to be become and i won't throw out the bathwater. >> judge napolitano: and biting my tongue. >> capri: it may think you made good points about the fact of their serious concerns concerns about the undermining of the fbi and the justice apart meant in all this. i think to your point, lisa, there are some serious questions about james comey's conduct. even though there are legitimate concerns that may be james comey was trying to bring up, he basically doesn't have any credibility anymore. at least in my eyes. because he has gone out there and shown his bias. he has gone to the 92nd street y and said "yeah, we circumvented things pray" and he cares more about hogging the public eye than the fate of the criminal justice system. >> lisa: i like the part reset

i was right. right. [laughter] >> harris: can i get this from inside the courtroom? once i can. before the recess was called, judge sullivan called the prosecution back to the stand one last time to ask a question. we know he asked the trees in question, but now the judge also asked to clarify recommendation for sentencing. to which the prosecution said "the government recommendation is that a sentence at the low end of the guideline range, that could include a timeline of no incarceration." why is he making sure that he understood that y'all meant zero? >> judge napolitano: when a defendant gives up his right to trial, which is effectively what a guilty plea is, you have to be certain that the defendant knows what he is giving up. even though the government says zero, and the defendant obviously wants zero, the defendant needs to understand that the court is not bound by the government and the defendant's request of zero. the court can sentence anywhere between zero and six months, which is the maximum for this. and he needs to know that mike flynn understands that

before they proceed. >> melissa: we are told that the court is going to be back in session any second. they had told us 12:30, they are not there yet. we are going to squeeze in a quick break. we will be back on the inside. don't go away. oh!

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and get back on your feet financially. call newday usa right now. call 1-855-510-4063. >> harris: general flynn is set to be sentenced today, we know, and then there was a recess. now they are back in court. our catherine herridge, chief intelligence correspondent, is inside the courtroom. as soon as the sentencing happens, or doesn't happen with general flynn -- and we will get into that and a second with the judge, because they were options on the table now -- we will bring you all of it live. judge andrew napolitano is in the center seat and he prayed he very seldom really feels "outnumbered" prayed [laughter] what are the options at this point? >> judge napolitano: well, the judge is hinting that he wants to delay the sentencing. because the government has told the judge that general flynn is

still helping the government by providing evidence -- >> harris: robert mueller. >> judge napolitano: correct -- in their investigations. normally, standing operating procedure. you don't sentence until the cooperations over with. i don't think the judge knew until an hour ago. none of us did. >> harris: should have known? >> judge napolitano: yes. that the cooperation is still going on. the government should have told him. then he said to general flynn twice, "do you still want to be sentenced today question ? question" >> yes " " "do you still want to do it even though it might not be zero? >> i understand that prey can i have a break to talk to my lawyers >> harris: why is he in such a hurry to be sentenced? >> judge napolitano: i think he wants to give the anxiety of this over with and get on with his life. >> harris: lisa boothe, should the president part in general flynn? >> lisa: i would say originally yes, but it troubled me. as they made the point early from his work on behalf of turkey. most people who are lobbing on

the behalf of foreign governments, there are violations that happen all the time in washington, d.c. >> harris: tell us what that acronym is again? >> lisa: is the foreign agents registry snacks. you're supposed to register with the foreign government. >> judge napolitano: until the feds exactly how much the foreign government is paying you. which is let flynn did. >> harris: so we are all in the same page with that serious. >> lisa: it happens all the time. it's also -- the government is very uneven handed and how they pursue those violations. that being said, the bigger problem is that he was going to be the incoming national security advisor. of course, that is troubling. >> harris: it's important. >> lisa: the logan act stuff is a joke. talking to kislyak, no problem with that. turkeys would have an issue with proof for that reason, i don't know. >> melissa: there are two enormous problems, here. he was about to be the national security advisor. we can't beat the national security advisor and be paid by a foreign government. it's a much bigger deal than any lobbying.

that's a huge deal. number two, he also got mike pence, the vice president, to lie to the american people. if you're going to be national security advisor, you also have to be honest. these are huge, huge problems. it's why he got fired. that's why it is -- we want to know with the president knew. >> harris: i want to follow-up. judge, you had a question? >> judge napolitano: did the president know in january of 2017 that the person he was putting at the focal point of national security was an agent of a foreign country western mark sometimes an ally -- >> lisa: but he does now. >> capri: i think you're probably right. he didn't know then, but he does now. we started the segment talking about "will president trump arden michael flynn?" speed when we didn't start there, but -- >> lisa: it got there. >> capri: i think, obviously, given some of the tweets and how

president chavez approach this, i think he might wants -- ascending some signals that may be that something is considering. >> harris: is that about the custom xp five i don't think it's perfect, being paid by a foreign government while being the incoming national security advisor. but maybe he commutes sentence. say today goes in there, gets three months, he could turn around and commute it. >> lisa: i think this is something that needs to be change in washington, d.c. i know senator chuck grassley is now offered -- >> judge napolitano: what needs to be change? >> lisa: that is to be more thoroughly enforced by the federal government. if you're worried about other countries doing the bidding in the united states, messing with our policies or elections or what have you? we should be -- >> judge napolitano: you know why they don't enforce a question mark most of the violators are former federal officials themselves. [laughter] we are laughing at it, but we shouldn't laugh at it! >> harris: it's a total swamp.

>> melissa: the president should not be tweeting that "poor michael flynn," and talking about how he has been abused by the system, if, in fact, he was getting paid by turkey while he was national security advisor. he didn't disclose that. he also got vice president mike -- >> harris: what james comey was saying, if you listen to that, in the hallway, he's echoing what you are saying. in fact, because you call the coming 'his remarks today "cogent," i think they are revealing, too. they may tell us behind the behe scenes where he's look at this prayed the president's words, and they take that to mean, including his tweets, can be held against him in some form. i'm paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the nugget. the president should stop talking. or he could be held accountable. >> melissa: it's hard to take it with a big spoonful of sanctimony puts on top. >> judge napolitano: take the personality out of it. the messages, the president ought to have known what michael flynn was up to at the time. the president is so far the

loser. we don't know what the sentence is going to be. then a judge asks -- >> harris: wisely of the loser? >> judge napolitano: because he has minimized what general flynn has done. it's treason. >> lisa: from that standpoint, i don't agree. >> harris: optics and law -- >> lisa: the world we live in now -- >> judge napolitano: this is back to melissa's questions. should the president between customer and maybe he could have tweeted at the time general flynn was arrested, but he now knows what flynn was doing at the time. he should be minimizing that. general flynn was a foreign agent while he was looking in the white house. he kept that from his bosses. that is not light or easy or something to be tweeted about or made a joke of. >> harris: that brings up with lisa was about. lisa, you actually separated out what is important, here. >> lisa: thank you. >> harris: you put turkey in a different lane, because he was being paid by or in government and didn't disclose it. >> lisa: to what melissa was say, that is a big deal. if you're the incoming national

security visor who has financial interests with the government of turkey, and president everyone, that's a big issue. for that, i have a concern to that point. i think that's the bigger issue. it's not come as a said previously, it's on the logan act or talking to the ambassador. that is the soul, bigger issue. >> capri: survive can i go back to what your sink? no more cutting the baby. [laughter] forgive me for being -- using an old saying. >> judge napolitano: with italian slang. >> capri: anyway, back to what you're saying about the difference between law and the media. i agree with you. >> harris: the perception of it. >> capri: the perception of reality. there has been so much fixation on these investigations, we are litigating them and the court of public opinion. and they are then, subsequently, mitigating the value and understanding of the legal process. i think we are doing a disservice to what these investigations are doing. because people like james comey

are out there, trying to -- same thing you can say with rudy giuliani, too. >> harris: i give the make it public a lot of credit. they tune in when they think it's kind of at that fire pitch, which is where we are today. this couple things going on. outside this courthouse in washington, d.c., you see the cameras purged for when this thing wraps up. on the judge sentences general mike flynn. for lying, and now we also know -- and lisa and melissa have really put this so clearly for us -- of the other lane in which all of this lives is that flynn was taking money from the turkish government, the people in turkey, who were working with him. and he did not disclose that as he was being looked at for a staff position with the president. so, now we also want to hear from the white house. the judges back of a courtroom in the last 30 seconds, by the way. we may see something. a sentencing, a july a sentencing of the courthouse. the other part of this is that in the next hour, or less than

that, we have been told that the white house press secretary sarah sanders will hold a press briefing inside the briefing room. all of this, we are watching. stay close hi, i'm joan lunden with a place for mom,

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liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> melissa: okay, we understand that the judge and former national security advisor michael flynn, former nationalsd national security advisor, back in the courtroom right now. as soon as we get any word from the courtroom on the sentencing, we will bring it to you just as soon as it happens. we will bring it back out to the couch. i want to -- judge, i want to read you something that was said outside the courtroom a few moments ago. the judge said, "i made a statement about mr. flynn. acting as a foreign agent while in the white house. should they be clarified, it was before he was in the white hous white house. the government says yes. the conduct ended in mid-november before the trump administration took over." that's a big difference.

the judge said "i asked the special counsel about other offenses. i wasn't suggesting that he committed treason. i was just curious." after looking at the government treason, we have no reason to believe that he committed treason." this is the judge, it sounds to me -- tell me if i'm wrong -- walking back a few of those scathing statements that he said. or clarifying come after they spoke. how would you characterize that? >> judge napolitano: i think you're right to the . the judge should have known some of the government should have told him before today. he did ask the question from the bench and the government did not ask dumb i can answer it properly. whatever you learned or saw or talked about during the break caused them to walk it back. the judge still seems to be concerned that general flynn was having the interest of a foreign government in line, whether still on their payroll or not, while he was advising donald trump. that cause the lie ofs to mike pence.

>> lisa: hammond people in washington, d.c., that would be considered for national security advisor position have done work on behalf of foreign government? >> judge napolitano: i don't know the answer to that, but if they've been working, they have foreign governments and didn't register, and didn't tell their boss, the president come about it, and were giving the president advice to favor the people who have been paying them, we have a problem. >> melissa: the problem is that he didn't disclose it properly. >> lisa: but that goes back to -- the timing does matter. whether he was guilty in his own mind. whether or not he meant to withhold that information, or if you do the backs accident because he did know what he was doing. it seems as if he is clear on the fact that he knew. >> harris: is an equally bad, lisa? if you're hiring somebody he doesn't know what he's doing enough to tell the -- the truth about what he's been doing, even in the last 60 days, let alone six months, that's as much a problem as somebody who who -- 's b2b have to leave it here. we're going to squeeze in one

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>> harris: we have a lot of breaking news right now coming from inside the courtroom. we are finding out now that the defense, former national

security advisor michael flynn, has asked the judge to delay sentencing in the courtroom. citing a case that he is likely to be asked to testify in. judge, what can you tell me about what we know about this other case where he is saying he's going to be needed? so they are delaying? >> judge napolitano: his two partners were indicted last week. that's in the eastern district of virginia. paul manafort is still to be sentenced, so that's in the eastern district of virginia. there's also a grand jury in the eastern district of virginia that sits just to hear about mueller post risk cases. he may be testifying before that question. against whom will he be testifying in secret before the grand jury? whatever it is, after saying no twice, general flynn said yes when asked do you want to put the sentencing off. >> melissa: right. in addition to that, we are also learning from the judge as he walks back that he didn't receive payments or work for the turkish government until mid-november. he went back and forth with the defense about that. the reason why this is meaningful is because now we are

going to look at everything he did, every decision that he did in light of the interests of turkey and president erdogan. >> judge napolitano: the next sentencing for general flynn will be very different from this one. the government is going to be asked to give the court information that undermines their witness, general flynn, who they say should get zero time. we've got a judge who think it should be greater than zero. >> melissa: "what advice did you give to the president that --" >> judge napolitano: about tricky? >> melissa: i know. michael flynn is asking to delay sentencing. we'll have more of the other side. thank you. ok everyone! our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition... for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein

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>> melissa: even more breaking news from inside the courtroom. we are now living there will be a status hearing on march 13th. that does it for here on "outnumbered." now come over to harris. >> harris: thanks a lot, melissa. as we continuing the breaking news now. we know inside the courtroom, michael flynn, former national security advisor to the president of the united states, was supposed to be sentenced today. he could have gotten zero days, per what investigators and prosecutors were asking for. now, that sentencing is put on hold. a lot of y and a lot of answers coming for us. our chief intelligence correspondent, catherine herridge, was just inside the courtroom where it was all happening. katherine, what happened exactly to get us to the delay point? >> harris, this has to be one of the