all three hours? >> bill: only if you insist. >> julie: and you will go on a little vacation? a little vacay? >> bill: i'll go and try to surf. >> julie: "outnumbered" starts right now. >> bill: bye-bye. >> melissa: fox news alert, former obama administration attorney general loretta lynn testifying behind closed doors in capitol hill, appearing before a joint house panel who is investigating the doj's handling of the hillary clinton email probe and trump russian investigation. this is "outnumbered," i melissm melissa francis. harris faulkner, katie pavlich, host of candy on the fox business network, kennedy herself. joining us on the couch, my favorite guy. david as men. hosts of "bulls and bears" on the fox business network, weeknights at 5:00 p.m. eastern. thanks for inviting me. >> harris: happy holiday

supreme merry christmas. >> david: thank you very much. >> melissa: loretta lynn speaking to the house to do judiciary committee. are republicans looking to compete their work as democrats for her to take the house majority next month. top democrats have vowed to shut these investigations down. a big focus of today's questioning is expected to be loretta lynch's infamous tarmac meeting with former president bill clinton. that meeting went down 90 phoenix airport in 2016, in the midst of the doj's hillary clinton email investigation. just two days ago, former fbi director james comey testified. he also served during the obama administration, and then-attorney general lori lynch was his boss. he has called that tarmac meaning inappropriate. he repeated that to lawmakers. peter doocy's lab on capitol hill with latus. peter? >> loretta lynch did not stop on

her way to talk in here. we can't go in there. they come out to take short breaks. i don't want to talk right over this gaggle down there. for lawmakers that come out of the hearing, we are told that lynch is being forthcoming with lawmakers have questions about why the obama doj investigated the term campaign and not the clinton campaign. >> i have now attended 17 or 18 interviews with the same questions over and over again. the interesting aspect of this is that loretta lynch is willing to answer all the questions. she hasn't been interrupted even wants by the attorneys. there are a lot of attorneys in there. i think it's been a free exchange of questions and answers. >> republicans have hinted that they got detailed questions about the infamous tarmac meeting where lynch and bill clinton huddled in the cabin of a private jet in arizona while her justice

department weighed charges against his wife, candidate clinton. lynch insisted it was just too hot to talk outside. but they got to chat about the topics of grand children in the news of the two. that day, it was brexit. they are curious why former fbi officials peter strzok and lisa page would text that they knew lynch would go easy on hillary clinton. this is from the first batch of comey's testimony two weeks ago. john ratcliffe, the republican, said "the day before the interview come on july 1st, lisa page texted peter strzok about loretta lynch and about her decision to follow your recommendation. "and said "yeah, it's a real profile encouraged that she knows no charges will be brought." do you recall reading the text to hearing about it? and comey said "i don't remember. i read it. "we don't know how much longer these always will stay quiet, but it may be a while. lawmakers had more than 30 hours worth of questions for comey

earlier this week. melissa? >> melissa: peter doocy, thank you so much. bring it out to the couch, david, what you think of the value as of going over this territory again? >> david: in light of going over the deal with general flynn, the way he was treated as opposed to the way hillary clinton was treated, and kind of a similar circumstance in many ways, it's worthwhile. i think it's clear that, while hillary clinton was given all kinds of leeway and perhaps even some, dare we say it, obstruction of justice -- there are suspicions of obstruction of justice from her husband, the former president, to loretta lynch. i think it's worthwhile raising all this. frankly, it's not going to be raised after january 2nd when the new congress comes into power. so this is kind of the last -- . by the way, i have to give her credit. harris has brought up a terrific point. if they were just talking about grandchildren, i hope you don't mind me using your point -- if they were just talking about grandchildren, why couldn't they have done on the phone? why did they have to meet at a

tarmac in the middle of nowhere? it's kind of weird. >> harris: my point has a do with what taxpayers would want done on the person's time for whom we are paying. it was just -- it was really just an observation. >> david: is a good one. >> harris: are they having conversations that come as taxpayers, we would understand why they would need to get together? later on, in the midst of his wife being under investigation, so on and so forth. >> melissa: what to be possibly learned that his new? everybody so dug into their position and what they think about everything that went on. i don't know that it's worthwhile to spend time dragging someone back, going over this. >> katie: we have heard, loretta lynch wants -- i believe -- in front of congressional testimony. in terms of how this will get results, i am cynical that this will get anywhere. republicans are out of power in the house, democrats are to give her the committees and have made it very clear that they are shutting down all of the investigations into doj

misconduct, into fbi misconduct. i would hope that a hearing like this with questions and answers from alert and lynch -- i'm glad to hear she's being forthcoming, unlike james comey who said he couldn't recall 300 plus times. and his lawyers continue to interrupt him. i hope the end game here would be to treat everybody equally under the law, regardless of whether you are a clinton or a trump. for chile, i think the sand has run out of the hourglass when it comes to what republicans can do. i wish they could do a second hearing with her sooner. >> melissa: kennedy, to address that point -- do you think people are treated differently under the law by the doj and the fbi? does this get us closer drug to find that? >> kennedy: i don't know that it gets us closer to rectifying anything. i don't think we have seen proof other than mccabe and comey and strzok and page having been removed from duty of the of pride. that things haven't really changed. i don't know how christopher wray demonstrates that.

what i will say is that comey and lynch seem to turn on each of them. if you remember, james comey said in his public testimony that he know stuff about loretta lorentz that he can't disclose for a few years. he says he has something overhead. he also characterized their discussions in a way that cast her into. negative light. maybe this is a chance for her to defend herself and set the record straight. part of the issue with that tarmac meeting is that people didn't trust hiller glinted to begin with. they thought she was shady and making deals in opacity, that benefited only herself. if you remember, loretta lynch didn't disclose that meeting on the tarmac. >> melissa: she got caught. the >> kennedy: it was a local reporter in arizona that did soe footwork and recognized the tail number on the plane. she said, jokingly at one point, "man, i wish there was a lock on the inside and i hadn't let the president in." if they were talking about

innocuous things -- >> harris: that has its own visual. [laughter] >> kennedy: why would she express that kind of regret? james comey is very dismissive with the questioning he has gotten from these committees. but i have to say, these are still various serious issues. if the formal attorney general is taking them seriously at acknowledging that, i think that's a benefit for the country to get some of that on the record. >> harris: since there are only, to our knowledge, since she didn't have a lock on the door -- loretta lynch -- since there were only two people having the conversation, are we also going to hear from bill clinton? i mean, if you want -- as journalists, we know that if you want the whole story you have to talk with everybody. i do have to just listen. right? are they going to have bill clinton on and let him talk about this, too? i don't know. >> david: or president obama. >> harris: but he wasn't on the plane. >> david: remember, he said the hillary clinton did not divulge any secrets. anything -- he said it several

times come as a matter fact. the point is, how would he know that if he wasn't getting information that he wasn't supposed to get with regard to all this? >> harris: i don't want hearsay from the former president. i wanted from the two people who were in the room. or the plane. >> katie: the reason he's taken loretta lynch back into the public -- well, not public -- but back at the congress to testify this is because of the timing of the issue, and the way the situation was handled. just a week after they had this meeting, there was a huge conflict of interest with hillary clinton under criminal investigation during an election. fbi agents not questioning her, and sing "we are going to exonerate you before we even interview." and the inner circle. and bill clinton walking onto this airplane and having this meeting. there were huge questions about whether she should recuse herself. she did not officially recuse himself. yet, there was all this outrage over jeff sessions and rod rosenstein, and now matthew whitaker. democrats demanding that he recuse himself from that situation. yet, we had this massive

conflict at that point in time. >> kennedy: i want to add something onto that. i think it's really part. she said she wouldn't recuse yourself, "i didn't do anything inappropriate. i'm going to accept whatever recognition the fbi makes." when james comey's recommendation was no charges, which isn't the responsibility of a law enforcement organization -- when a police officer arrests you, they don't go before a judge and say what the punishment should be. they don't list what the crimes are. a prosecutor does that. lessor at a lynch's job. she advocated that and give it to comey. he gave her a cover, which is really weird. he's the one who said "i don't recommend charges." and she said "case close excellent" >> melissa: whether it is james comey addressing the cameras come everybody comes to the same conclusion although they blame different actors. they said that trust in the doj and the fbi has been totally eroded.

comey blames the president, other people blame him and loretta lynch. but nobody has a solution to how it is restored, david. how does it get restored? >> david: one thing you have to do is expose it to sunlight. that's why we are exposing all of these issues that have been covered from sunlight. once you investigate closely, you find that mr. mccabe did things wrong. that peter strzok did things wrong. and they end up leaving the agency's. you rid of the bad actors. comey said the other day "i'm proud of what the fbi did under my leadership." but he see of what mr. mccabe did? is a part of what predistracted? he should be asked that question. are you proud of what they developed with fusion gps, which was funded by a political organization to disrupt a political election in this country? is he really proud of all those things that the fbi did that not only are viewed by most of us as a mistake, but led to the

dismissal of people at the fbi? >> katie: somebody getting fired in washington, d.c., is very rare. the fact that andrew mccabe was fired, peter strzok was fired, not only just fired, but andrew mccabe has been referred for criminal by the attorney in washington, d.c. those are big develop meds. the question is now how christopher wray decides to bring other people in, to ensure that their political biases are not getting into their work. it's a huge deal. i want to say, based on the way washington, d.c., works, usually "groove screw up and move it." people have been fired as a result. it's one step but no mike torta. >> melissa: the federal reserve, the president wants the bank to stop hiking interest rates. the fed has a big decision to make. what will it be? and what it means politically for the economy and more importantly your wallet. the hits keep on coming for facebook -- the new privacy scandal rocking the social media giant that could be the worst

one yet. just how safe is your info? not at all. whether companies like facebook need to be reined in. >> congress is going to have to regulate them, and stop this. i hate to do it but, by god, i will if they can't clean up their act. ♪ (vo) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. oh! under seven? (vo) and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. oh! up to 12 pounds? (vo) a two-year study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. oh! no increased risk? ♪ ozempic®! ♪ ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not share needles or pens.

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♪ >> harris: new serious questions about facebook after a bombshell report in "the new york times" thing with social media giant gave tech companies much more access to personal data than previously disclosed. including allowing companies like netflix and spotify to read users' private messages. they are also reporting that for years facebook gave some of the world's largest tech companies more intrusive access to user's personal data than it has, effectively does know mike excluding them from their privacy rules. according to internal ohmic internal records and interviews. it allows other tech companies to take a peek, but they are denying they did so without consent. facebook says "to be clear, none of these partnerships or features give companies access to information without permission. nor did they violate our 2012 settlement with the ftc."

this is just the latest privacy scandal for facebook. lawmakers like louisiana senator john kennedy, who always speaks his mind, want it to sto stop. >> the hits just keep on coming. mr. zuckerberg told us that he was going to stop doing this, and now we find out, yet again, that facebook has sold our private messages to other companies for bucket loads of money. now, the first time it can be a mistake. the second time, it's a choice. i don't want to have to regulate facebook. but, doggone it, they have to stop doing this. >> harris: bucket loads of cash. the first time, a mistake. the second time -- when is it a crime? >> david: the ftc already put out a consent decree that this contradicts. they say they are going to give out unconsented data harvesting prayer that's a horrible phrase. data harvesting. "the new york times," by the way, has been -- talk about a

bucket load -- they're getting a bucket load of really good information about what facebook has been doing behind the scenes. you have to read that stuff. >> harris: that has all the internal back and forth. how these prosecutors at a federal level who would be looking into this? if you lied to them, we've been told that's a crime. >> katie: allegedly. [laughter] >> david: the ftc is a federal organization. i don't know what kind of powers they would have, how they could actually punish facebook for this stuff. >> harris: consumers can punish them. >> david: we still don't know all the details. we mention netflix and spotify during the harvesting. also, the royal bank of canada. what are they doing with our private information customers i don't want my private information circulating with all the financial organizations. if it's in one bit, it gets into a very dull mike hundreds of others. >> harris: kennedy, we often have conversations with you because you're an expert on liberty. how does the step over the line?

>> kennedy: it steps over the line of these major companies, they donate millions and millions of dollars to political campaigns. they essentially turn on their rivals. whoever donates the most money gets to help write the law. that's how cronyism works. whether it's with public unions or big tech. they work in concert with government -- >> harris: is facebook dinner in danger of going down to these behaviors? >> kennedy: some of their biggest rivals will make sure they do bring them down a peg. tech is always going to be five steps ahead of the government. even when you sit in front of congressional committees and they admonish you and tell you to get the heck off their lawn, they still have -- and what they did was they buried all of this information and pages and pages of their privacy disclosures. the assumption is that, of course he read the privacy agreement! >> harris: you mean that long thing with the box at the end

that we scroll through and say yes? >> david: the times are saying this goes beyond that. that they are violating those agreements that nobody reads. >> kennedy: they say that they are relying on people's rational ignorance. i think it come in this case, it's not going to shield them. >> harris: i want to ask you about to the rivalries before we get too far along for what kennedy said. isn't that the market taking care of itself? >> melissa: it is, but the thing that really bugged me about this one is if you look deep into the article -- by the way, david and i talk a lot about this. "the new york times" is all over facebook. who is their source? the information is really deep on there. it somebody trying to get rid of management there. you may be somebody on the board who knows. if you look at what they did, they allowed partner companies like spotify to access user's private messages, read our private messages, what you are saying to her mother, to your kids. whatever it is.

>> katie: >> harris: planning r wedding. >> melissa: they live us companies harvest the data in order to sell your stuff. "mom, i told you you should watch the show." in all of the sudden again add for that show. their defense was "we told you we wouldn't sell that information." and they didn't. they traded it to people like spotify in order to -- and zuckerberg was the one who okayed these deals personally. >> harris: are we surprised about that, based on what we know he did as a teenager? >> melissa: they are liars, the people that run that company. i've deleted my facebook page. i think of people should come too. >> david: started walt mossberg, he used to be with "the wall street journal." he announced publicly that he pulled out of facebook. >> harris: the traffic is way down on some of the pages anyway. people aren't trusting to put up as many pictures. >> kennedy: even the russians know that. >> harris: i want to hit

this -- we can pretend we didn't see this coming with mark zuckerberg. we have text messages that were preserved, where he and his young -- he might not have been a teenager, but he was very young. when they were going back and forth saying what they could do, and how excited they were that they had people 'personal data. if you glimpse even that far back, you are right, kennedy -- not only are we five steps behind with our government, but apparently with our government lawmakers, as well. some of those questions didn't get asked. >> katie: i have a really hard time getting worked up about this. facebook is a free service. if you're going to be complaining about your private data that you are giving away for free, there is no such thing as a free lunch. you are using a private service. it's a private company, despite how big it is. you are a volunteer using it to community with other people. i understand you may assume that you can medications or private, but you're using a service. the way that you pay for that surface, because nothing is free, is by them harvesting your data. there is a problem with them lying about what they are doing.

they say they told you they were doing this, and that -- >> kennedy: and taking your contacts. not just your data. >> kennedy: but those were also on -- in the free market, i think we will comply and say "i don't want to be a facebook anymore." but nobody's forcing people to use facebook. >> david: good point. >> katie: if you don't want them giving away your data, may be -- >> david: how can anybody think they have 5,000 people as friends and that the data is secure? if i have five friends, though mike -- exactly. 5,000 people? >> harris: "i know i said it was a secret, but." i will say this about spotify. i wasn't kidding about planning a wedding, i read about this. they are a music distributor. you get the free music if they got to read about your wedding or your event planning? i'm serious. if facebook is giving them entry into your life, is that how you

get a gift? the changes the context of a conversation. i have not seen that anything is free. spots to >> katie: spotify is also free. pandora. there are free services you are using, voluntarily giving away your information. >> david: it's valuable. don't give it away. >> kennedy: is also a generational thing. younger people don't believe in this thing called privacy. they think it's a myth. >> harris: it sounds like facebook is getting into that territory that my relatives called -- seriously. they are taking stuff. >> kennedy: they are walking up to the creepy line. >> david: [laughs] >> harris: let's move on with my metaphor. that's why i like kennedy, she understands. the clock is ticking for lawmakers to make a deal to prevent the shutdown. it looks like president trump is backing off the demand for $5 million for the wall system. at least for now. whether he will sign this new deal, and what the wall site

will look like in 2019. ♪ >> it safe to say that the democrats have now boiled down immigration reform, which is a complex and important issue, much of wall. ♪

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>> melissa: fox news alert, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell introducing a short-term spending bill that would keep the government funded until early february. this, as a deadline looms for lawmakers to reach a spending deal to avoid a partial government shutdown. the white house no longer demanding $5 billion from congress for a border wall, as president trump tweets that the military will build the wall. it top senate democrat chuck schumer blasting the president at the white house for suggesting funds already allocated could be used for the wall. listen. >> for the past several weeks, the president's insistence on $5 billion for a wall has been the biggest obstacle to keeping

the government open. let me be very clear -- the administration cannot re-program funds appropriated by congress for the full wall without our consent. >> melissa: earlier today, white house counselor kellyanne conway pushing back on reports that the president is backing down on border security. watch this. >> congress is going to put before him a short-term cr, that goes through february 8th. it keeps the government up and running trade that doesn't mean the president is backing down from a sensual promise. it's not a campaign promise, it's a promise from him to keep us safe. >> melissa: president trump tweeting today, "in our country so much money has been poured down the drain for so many years." isn't that the truth? "when it comes to border security, the military and the democrats fight to the death. we won on military, which is been completely rebuilt. one way or the other, we will win on the wall!" katie, riddle me this one -- i

love to negotiate. i will go out and haggle with the guy on the corner over a hot dog. i don't even like hot dogs. if i was a democrat, i would not resist the opportunity to go to the president who so desperately wants this money for the wall and say "guess what i want in return?" and i would demand something really painful that i really want. we are democrats passing up on that delicious opportunity? >> katie: first of all, they are out of time. again, here we are in washington, d.c., up against a deadline. this big, scary, looming government shutdown. or a full government shutdown, whatever you want to say. doom and gloom. you are right, this would be an opportunity for them. we believe we do this in the next congress with nancy pelosi. when it comes to the wall, it's all political. when it comes to politics, it's more important to democrats to keep a wind from president trump because 2020 is coming. they want to take away anything he's capable of delivering on for his next campaign.

in order to stop him in 2020 and give they want. they are banking on the american people being on their side. they are saying they've made it out because they won the midterm election. you're right, they could take this opportunity, but they are out of time. they are more interested, politically, and making sure he doesn't win. >> melissa: david, i want to get out my what a woman lasso of truth and force everyone in the conversation to be intellectually honest. that we are not actually talking about a wall. we never have been. we are talking about offense. it could be double-sided. chuck schumer has moved and done my code for before. >> david: i have heard you say this, and they agree with you up to a point. the wall is a very specific thing for the president's base. for the president's base, the wall -- with those words, "the wall," means a lot. this is one of the "read my lips" moments for this president. if he is viewed by his base as caving on the issue, no matter how they try to spin at the white house, already some of the

base is beginning to fray a little bit. worrying that the president is giving up on us. on the other hand, the president's pointed not to eat is an absolutely legitimate point. it's a couple billion dollars in a budget of 3 and a half trillion. it's just absurd. >> melissa: one-tenth of 1%. >> david: i think it's even less. i did my own calculation, .06%. at any rate, we have -- while the president is talking but wasted money -- they pledged aid for southern south america and. to keep people from coming to the north. i covered that region a long time. a lot of that money is going to be wasted. talk about throwing money down the drain. that's why all the money ends up in the hands of the rich people, doesn't go to the poor people who this money is supposed to support. meanwhile, they are haggling over one-tenth of the amount of money that's going to be spent on the program that is not going to work. >> kennedy: here's my problem -- if that's .06% and we

are talking about billions of dollars, we are doing something wrong in this country. we are spending too much money. there are too many redundancies. we are spending it on the wrong places. also, to chuck schumer's points, which -- he doesn't always have a lot of correct points, but that's not the with the government works. you can't just take a billion from this program and a billion over here and then put it toward your pet project. if president obama had done that with solyndra and taken money from the defense budget for a solar panel company, will all be up in arms. it's really not okay. that's not how the government should function. if the president wasn't able to get this funding when he had both chambers, it just goes to show what they politically toxic issue this is. there are plenty of people in this country, especially people where katie is from, on these border states. they certainly agree with that view of immigration. but, at this point, it's almost

like a health care-level failure. >> harris: actually come in arizona, i would say that's not true. also having lived near the border and i still do for part of the year. they want border security but it doesn't look the way we often talk about it. because of our border down by no there is a hard wall, if you will. but not throughout. we understand that certain parts have to be because of the topography and logistics. you got the cartel so vicious on that board to pay their flying planes over. you need technology, you need more than this. part of the misnomer with this, too, from the very beginning -- the marketing was strong with the words "the wall." but all along, the president said he meant a border wall system. there are a lot of similarities. i have heard you say this, too. there is some common ground were republicans and democrats can get together. let's not even think of it that way. let's think of just the headlines today, that they need to work on. caravans coming into the countr

country, children who are caught up in this in horrible ways, and the look that that gives us in a moral sense. should we be responsible for that? we are, because we are a beacon of light. >> katie: but you can't discount that the president in the white house and the term campaign made "the wall" the biggest part of their promises. yes, border security in general, which -- the kind of dropped "wall" from the languages over the couple of days. after he vowed to shut the government down over the wall. they promoted all those photos in san diego of the wall prototypes, he went and visited them. they publish all those photos. the wall is a central part of what they have been arguing. the technology, extra resources, and the president sending the military. those things have come second pair the number one thing has been the wall. don't discount the fact that they aren't getting it now, and based on the fact that house democrats are taking it over, they probably aren't going to get into the future, either.

>> harris: >> melissa: is beins a big bipartisan victory for president trump. the criminal justice bill that swept through the senate by a huge margin. whether this points to a more bipartisan cooperation in the months ahead, and if it gives the president some political capital heading into the new year. ♪ the further into winter we go, the heavier i get. and while your pants struggle to support the heavier you, your roof struggles to support the heavier me. [laughter] whoo. [crash] and your cut-rate insurance might not pay for this. so get allstate, you could save money and be better protected from mayhem like me. mayhem is everywhere. so get an allstate agent. are you in good hands?

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not just your credit score. and they'll do everything they possibly can to get you approved. call today. and get the financial peace of mind every veteran deserves. go to newdayusa.com, or call 1-877-236-1855. ♪ >> harris: victory for president trump and senior white house advisor jared kushner, as the senate last night approved the criminal justice reform bill. kushner works the halls of congress for months in an effort to forge a bipartisan compromis compromise. the final vote, 87-12. every democrat voted yes. the measure would give judges more discretion when sentencing some drug offenders, and it will boost is another rehabilitation efforts. kelly and come with passage. >> it's a big win for the president, and a big win for

those who have paid their debts to society and are ready for reentry. this is about workforce development, education, skills training, and the ability to get a second chance. the president and jared kushner, my colleague here, and many others in the house and senate came forward after decades of dawdling over this issue. coming together, and passing this. >> harris: the 12 no votes were all from republicans who argued the bill is too soft on criminals. the president tweeted this, he is looking forward to signing it and after the head up house senate sync up there prospective bills. we have critics of this. 12. senator graham did not vote, so we don't know where to eat he would have fallen. are you surprised there would have been republicans who didn't get onto something that was so bipartisan? >> david: getting victimless criminals, who were convicted of victimless crimes come out of jail is a great thing. it's a country second chances, that's one of the beautiful

things. look at the names. there are child, but john kennedy we just spoke highly of. jon kyl, lisa murkowski, marco rubio. these aren't extremely right-wingers. and yet they had problems because they spoke to criminal justice people who said "look, they will be some bad apples to get out on the street." the overwhelming majority of people who will benefit from this deserve to benefit from this. but, is it worth getting some bad apples? i think come in the end, the answer is yes. i think if i was the senator voting i probably would have voted along with the majority. you've got to listen to these people, because they have -- they are serious people who have spoken to law enforcement. >> harris: i would say this -- senators tom cotton of arkansas and john kennedy of louisiana, who we were just talking about, came up with some amendments they wanted see past. one was requiring the victims to be notified when they are given early release. they couldn't come to agreement on that. >> david: that's a great point great point. >> harris: maybe some of this fell down, too, because some of

those told people to get what they thought was pretty basic. katie? >> katie: if you want to look at a functioning piece of legislation and how washington, d.c., should operate, this is a perfect example of that. there are people who voted against it who have very serious concerns about some of the implications what del mike that the bill might bring. as we saw come in bipartisan fashion, the overall benefits of the bill are worth maybe some of the risks and the amendment that didn't pass. i find it interesting that jared kushner worked on capitol hill behind-the-scenes, he didn't run onto the campus. ivanka has done some of the same things and her work. they are interested in getting results. they are able to do it here on a bipartisan basis, which is very rare. it was debated fully on the floor in the senate. it was given a number of opportunities to be amended. the house then passed it through, and the president signed. >> harris: what is the lesson than that? >> katie: the lesson is that you have to work quietly, patiently come and negotiate. >> harris: do politicians usually do that?

>> katie: jared kushner is the one to push it through. not as a politician, someone who can work with both sides in a quiet fashion who is not interested in the credit and the glory and the camera time. that's how you get it done. i think we will have to see if the bill produces the results that they claim it will. we will see the implications of it over the next ten or 20 year years. watching the process is an interesting one. it can be studied in a way that is beneficial to people understanding how it works. >> melissa: that's a point that kennedy made a while ago, when we were talking about originally. i think it's most interesting interesting part of this. are we looking at a new future of coalition politics, as opposed to party? is the way that you actually get something done, rather than getting republican-democrat -- we see that's not working any longer -- if you are president trump, do you look around and say "what coalition can i build around this issue?" >> harris: isn't that what they do? >> melissa: money is supposed to be the focus for their shareholders. >> david: also,

parliamentarian. like we do with parliament. >> kennedy: i think there can be an american implantation of a system like that. i do think it's really important that we ask these fundamental questions that the libertarians have been asking for a long time, which is "why are we so hard on certain people? why are repainting criminality with such a broad brush?" it so incredibly unfair. particularly to communities of color. we have seen the data, and we see in the disparity. want to make sure the people can participate in this economy by working and thriving and providing for their families. it gives everyone, in every community, a much greater advantage. the first step, but i think it's fantastic place to start. philosophically, and legislatively. >> harris: does it start to undo some of the criminal legislation that bill clinton put into place? i will talk about that with my guest next hour, pastor scott. a big proponent, darrell scott come of getting this past. we will move on. we are waiting federal reserve

chairman jerome powell's decision on interest rates. that will be just a few hours from now. market watchers fear another hike he could slow down a strong economy, and the president's wing in on it all. so, what is the president saying and how would another hike in the rate impacts the economy? we will talk about it. stay close. ♪ ok everyone! our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition... for strength and energy!

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♪ >> kennedy: all eyes on the fed today as we await remarks from chairman jerome powell. market watchers have seen a turbulent few weeks on wall street, fearing another rate hike could derail a strong economy. however, the federal reserve's signaling they will raise interest rates once again, which would be the fourth time since he took over in february. president trump suggesting that the fed's moves are here hurtie county. his tweet -- david? >> david: "feel the market," i love it. directly relate to the fed, today is my wife's birthday. happy birthday! i had to throw that in.

jerome powell is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. if he doesn't raise rates today, everybody will say he's a wimp because he caved into the president. if he does, he's the grinch who stole christmas because it's going to affect the markets. the markets are expecting them to raise rates even though they are up 300 points, just because they think his statement afterward will be very accommodating. the world is going through a delicate moment right now. the economy over the entire world is getting slow. if the u.s. raises the rate, that could really push over the edge. it's not a good time. >> kennedy: no, it's not a good time. how would we set rates if we didn't have the federal reserve? specie with the free market, perhaps! [laughs] >> david: the gold standard! i like it. >> melissa: oil the gold standard. i don't know, the constant tinkering, to me, is a disaster. there's always unintended consequences. it's the very principle upon which the free market is built, this idea that when we sit here

and try and manage things when we are the other there ends up being a negative externality, and something that you didn't anticipate ahead of time. i do think he is going to soften, jerome powell. i think he sees the writing on the wall with everything else that's going on outside of our own borders. i kind of think the president should stop tweeting about it. >> david: although he is right when he said a couple months ago, "be careful, fed. don't raise rates too much." he was right. >> melissa: he's right, i agree with him, i just don't know about the tweeting. >> katie: the president has been very critical of the fed, saying they kept interest rates unnaturally low, which, in turn, created all these bubbles for president obama, to help him politically. is the president asking jerome powell to do the same thing for him? >> katie: that's why we should end the fed. >> david: are we all for that?

four people? 4 out of 4 people? >> katie: i would throw back to david come and say you say it's not a good time. but when the fed is managing all these different arenas of the economy, is that every good time to try and change anything? people would argue that the economy has been high on free money for way too long. >> david: good point. >> katie: at some point you have to make a decision to raise rates. that's inevitably owing to cause a disruption. >> david: what i fear as they are raising rates because they were afraid of what they call an overheated economy. i have no problem with overheat economies. i like them! i like it hot. >> kennedy: you know what we like. indeed, hot freedom. we've got more speech when he five in just a moment. you stay right here ♪ the new capital one savor card. earn 4% cash back on dining

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♪ >> melissa: we wanted to take a moment to welcome luke james clark into the world. luke is the first child of a very beloved fox employee, megan clark, and her husband, jeff. he is truly #oneluckyguy. he was born on monday night at . the perfect christmas present. we send all of our love and blessings to megan, jeff, and their family. look at that! >> so beautiful! 's because she's beautiful, too. >> we love you. congratulations to both of you. >> mama and daddy! >> he's such a bundle! >> oh, to be a bundle.

>> look how beautiful she looks. >> come to have a bundle. >> it's not fair. it's amazing. congratulations, thank you for joining us. >> happy birthday, mc. >> we are back tomorrow at noon eastern. now, here's harris. >> harris: we begin a brand-new hour whistler village's turn on the hot seat today. "outnumbered overtime," i'm harris faulkner. the former attorney general is in a closed door session with two sets of house committee members as they try to wrap up an investigation in the house. the obama justice department handled the clinton email investigation and the rest russia probe. one day after the james comey hearing transcript in which the former fbi director defended his handling of the investigation, as well as the fbi's interview with former trump national security advisor michael flynn. chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge is following all of it from capitol hill. is she telling anybody anything? >> h