wednesday. >> anita: yes, thank you. i am. a special time to be in the city. it is so beautiful outside. >> rick: it is beautiful out here. i hope everyone is enjoying their christmas eve. if >> anita: will see you tomorrow. >> rick: "outnumbered" starts right now. >> julie: the reaction as we reached a three of a partial government shutdown that will drag on through christmas. and until thursday at least if not longer with the white house republicans and democrats in congress at a stalemate. this is "outnumbered." good afternoon to you, i'm julie banderas, here today lisa boothe, national security analyst morgan ortagus. i'm just going to go slow. jessica tarlov. is joining us on the couch. nationally syndicated radio horse and former cia officer buck sexton joining us as well. >> buck: merry christmas, ladies, ladies. >> >> julie: we look like a christmas tree.

speak to jessica and i are the hanukkah bush. the discolored hanukkah bush. >> julie: i do not remember that color scheme. but anyway. moving on, you know, this is a busy week. you would think that congress would have its ducks in a row before the holiday is everybody would. but i don't know if you heard, they don't. adjourn for business over the weekend with no spending deal in sight. the biggest sticking point is of course the president trump push for border wall funding. nl the white house this morning that the shutdown could last until the new year blaming democrats for the holdup. here is incoming active chief of staff. >> the problem of course is that as recently as two weeks ago $1.6 billion for the same thing. so they are moving in the wrong direction. i think it is overly good question as to whether or not the deal can be cut before the new congress comes in. >> julie: but democrats are not backing down, vowing to oppose any new funding for the president's border wall. they will not support it.

here is 2020 presidential contender and democratic senator jeff merkley, listen. >> we are absolutely willing to fund border security. the american people want to suspend money and a smart way. $5 billion is a lot of money. and to spend it on a four century strategy rather than stuff that actually improves border security is something that we are just not going to do. let me be clear, democrats are not going to agree to any funding to build new border wall? none? >> that is correct, none. >> julie: allison barber's life with the latest. >> white house press secretary sarah sander says that president trump will meet with the homeland security adviser and ds officials at the white house today at 2:00 p.m. to discuss border security issues. vice president mike pence and mick mulvaney met with democratic senator chuck schumer over the weekend. they say that they gave him a counter offer. we have asked the white house what that counter offer is, but so far they have not given a specific details. they say that they are offering

a number that is less than the long table at $5 billion. >> at 1.3 yesterday, 5 billion a couple of days ago. on the counter offer was between those two numbers. >> 2.3? >> we have moved off of the five. we hope that they move up off of 1.3. >> the latest offer from the white house is $2.1 billion for border security. and that includes new sensing, plus 400 million for other immigration priorities. the source describes it as a flush fund for other immigration priorities. the white house says that conversations with democrats did continue throughout the weekend and continue now. president trump invited seven lawmakers to the white house to discuss border security over lunch this past weekend. members of his administration attended as well. democrats did not. as far as we know, none were invited. >> he says that it is an issue a border security, i think that we know better. it is an issue of political

insecurity. when the right-wingers start screaming at him, he backs off and do symbols in front of us. we now have reached a depth of dysfunction that i have never seen in washington. >> saying that the president is not going to accept any sort of deal that does not include some sort of physical barrier, a border wall, but to mick mulvaney also says what one person calls a wall, another person might call a fence. julie. >> julie: all right, thank you very much. so now we are joined by our panel here, and we will talk more about this. lisa, i want to ask you first, the democrats have basically said, and mick mulvaney has basically said that if this decision does not happen and it actually gets pushed until new years, think about it. democrats are going to be in control of this decision. can republicans kiss the wall funding go by? >> lisa: i do not think that democrats will give anything to congress, because they want to wait until the house democrats take over the house and it gives them a little bit more leverage in these negotiations. i do not see either side backing down right now.

you have to remember that the next election is not until 2020. so there's not a lot of political incentive to come together and find a solution. they are not worried about an election coming up. so i think that the thing will go on for a while. but this is more of a semantics in politics game then it is about policy. democrats have supported a physical barrier along the southern border and wall funding. a spending billions of dollars to do so. they are not against having a physical structure. so what this is really about his politics ended nine president trump eight key campaign promise that he made to voters. and i think that is why democrats will hunker down more than anything because they do not want to give that to president trump. >> julie: who is at risk of being hurt both by the this? the democrats blame the republicans, the republicans call blamed chuck schumer. who will take the blame? >> buck: this is the whole game, who is taking a loss in public perception, so you might have somebody who decides that i cannot deal with it anymore, but to lisa's point, the next

election is a long way off. and when you look at the objections from democrats on this. they said that they are not going to give the money, we know by federal government standards that this is not a lot of money. that is not a serious argument. we agreed that the border is important, then you have the line that the wall does not work or it is something from 2,000 bc or all of these other lines that they are trotting out. the head of border patrol told me that he wall will help. telling me that a wall would help. even if they get some funding, i think what democrats realizes that the wall would have to be piecemeal, it would be sector by sector like the way that we cover the border currently. if you can show what we have in san diego, the beginnings of a more continuous longer structure in the efficacy, then what is the argument? we would don't want to make the border secure? so they are concerned that it would work from democrats which is driving a lot of angst from their side. >> julie: in the meantime there are 400,000 employees right now, government employees that are going to be working through the christmas holiday

because they have no choice without pay. there are over 100,000 employees that are going to be furloughed, which means that you stay home and you do not get paid. there's a lot at stake. here is karl rove talking about where the plane should be place placed. let's listen. >> everybody loses, but i think the president loses more than others. everybody will walk away from this tarnished. it will look more dysfunctional and like you cannot get the active together. but the president will end up being blamed more. in part because as we saw in that exchange in the oval office, he said, i own it. >> julie: morgan, who gets hurt the most? >> morgan: one of the reasons that i do not love the question is by nature i have been in business for a long time, so how do we salt us? and i think that newt gingrich laid out a pass for the president and the incoming house. and that was what senator graham and others have talked about which is a deal for dhaka. and i do not think that we will

get out of this with a short-term fix as it relates to giving the president part of the wall funding, how we get out of this in the next few weeks is whenever both sides come to a bigger deal. maybe it is for daca or partial wall funding. >> julie: wears a compromise? the democrats are saying we will give you $1.3 billion that will go towards what? >> jessica: border security. >> julie: and the president once 5.7 billion to start building. what kind of security will be brought forth with $1.7 billion? >> jessica: have not read the mechanics, but when chuck schumer offered it originally, which the president should have taken that he went on to say on tape repeatedly that it will be the trump start down -- a shutdown, i'm okay with that. but it is something more reminiscent of what the gang of eight or gang of six were requesting years ago. but who gets the blame here, i believe the president does. had to have this conversation

about money, we know that democrats are more willing to spend than republicans. but the last shutdown was over 3.4 billion. so over 2 billion less. and that was for health care which was the number one issue to americans in the 2018 midterms. the republicans look silly going on and on about the 5.7 for a border wall security which is not the top priority after they were perfectly happy to shut it down over health care which affects every single american. >> buck: let me out that the american people were treated to quite a spectacle in the weeks leading up to all of this where you were being told constantly that the caravan was not going to come. the caravan was 1,000 miles a way, and a big election scam, people were making it up. and then it turns out that there was a caravan that made its way to the border. and they could say, why could it not get across at the san diego sector? because there is a wall there. and places where the wall was in disrepair there were efforts to try to get through the wall. >> jessica: but we are also told that they were throughout ms-13 and people who were infected, which is something

that george stowers paid for, which is not what happened. >> buck: but there is an effort to come in, and that we are being told that walls do not do anything. but that is obviously not true. >> lisa: to jessica's point, saying that there were 500 criminals in the midst of the caravan and trying to come here, it is just common sense. if you know that thousands of people are getting into the united states, if you are somebody bad, would you not try to infiltrate the group of people? a lot comes down to common sense. further do walls work? if you are walking and there is a big wall in front of you, are you not going to turn around? this is common sense. we have 22 million illegal immigrants living in the country right now. neither party can figure out what to do with them. why would we want that problem to continue to get worse? >> jessica: a lot of people do know what to do with them. >> lisa: you would not know that with congress. >> jessica: there are people looking for legal status that

are not criminals of any time. or paying taxes into a fake fund so that if somebody picks them up, they can say that i have been paying. >> julie: let's talk about the people that are here, that is part of the compromise, the dreamers, what happens to that plan? because a lot of people would argue that the caravan of thousands of people that are trying to come over, a lot of them are women and pregnant and coming with her children. the question is do you make a deal so that if you were born here it does not automatically grant you american -- >> buck: it is a terrible idea to make a deal when you cannot control future illegal crossings. because we went through this already with the reagan administration. >> julie: but if it's as you cross the border illegally and you have a child here, they are not an american status. that is a deterrent. >> buck: there are numbers of deterrence, but none of them are put in place. people are talking at the dreamers, but the dreamer population won already, going to get much larger. left out of the initial pool that will sue, then it will be the parents of dreamers and then people that say that they were

dreamers, they just did not know how to file for the dreamer paperwork. the number will be bigger and if you cannot stop people coming in, how do you know what the number is? >> julie: we will move on, president trump capping a replacement for jim mattis, and it is coming earlier than expected. the active defense secretary and what impact he might have on u.s. policy in syria. that is straight ahead. plus the dow is up and down today as the white house asked a push to ensure anxious investors the move from the administration and whether it is making a difference. speak of the fundamentals, john, what is going to drive the economy in the long run. they do not have the same fundamentals in the 1920s. will be things that we are going into a great depression deny thy father and refuse thy name. or if thou wilt not,

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>> julie: welcome back, while the trump administration making new moves to reassure the markets and investors. as the dow goes for another wild ride today, this weekend treasuries secretary steve mnuchin spoke with the heads of six of the nation's largest banks. and he is said to convene a group of top financial official officials. but then reportedly the agency's during government shutdown paid all of this as incoming acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney downplays the market's recent volatility insisting tha. listen. speak of the fundamentals of the economy are still great. yes, the stock market is down. we know that it goes up and down. unemployment is at a historic low. business confidence is high. gdp is still solid. of the are still good. >> lisa: also weighing in on reports that president trump has discussed firing federal reserve chairman jerome powell. the fed has hiked interest rates despite the president's protest.

>> it is not unusual for a president to complain about the actions of the federal reserve chairman. i think that ronald reagan is famous for it. >> lisa: i will start with you, morgan, what do you make of steve mnuchin's calls to u.s. banks? is this a sand that the demonstration and is worried about the economy? >> morgan: it is not unusual part of the treasury secretary's job is to oversee the economy at large for the president. and that is what -- i do think that the market is on edge right now. so anything, when you start seeing publicly aided treasury secretary calling around it does give them a little bit of jitters. what we are looking at if we take a step back is the global economic picture. you're seeing slowing growth in china, we are seeing a very hard brexit landing probably next year or you can see a lot of contention between the u.k. and european economies. which, by the way, the main european economy is germany that is the driver. italy also showing slower economic growth.

while most u.s. economists are predicting a slow down in 2019, we can actually see a little bit of a bright and shining star for global investors paid because when you look to china, japan, europe, they are actually far behind us on the economic data. that is the danger that the economic team is trying to forecast on the market? >> lisa: how much do you think the coverage of the trump administration plays into the turmoil in the market. everything is hired by the media and everything is out and 11. how much plays into that? >> buck: people are happy to have the opportunity to criticize trump with the economy or the market going in a negative direction, but the president has been very vocal about how he has been a part of the reason if you ask him why the market has been going so high. but when you are reaching all-time highs, you have to wonder at what point does this turnaround? and there is a cyclical nature to these things, presidents get more for an economy than they deserve. and he may find out relatively

soon, that he is getting more negative attention when things go badly. santa had a 401(k) that took a hit this year. and if you are someday looking at the fang stocks, facebook, apple, amazon, google, all of the tech companies, they have had a rough go as well. >> lisa: that is an important point, the treasury secretary called their stocks all down this year, and typically in a rising rate environment, much to the chagrin, it should be up. most of them are experiencing low stock. >> jessica: this is not a political point, we should all be able to agree that there is a competency issue that went on with what steve mnuchin did. from the vacation in mexico he released a statement saying that there was a liquidity crunch when nobody thought that there was a liquidity crunch and put everybody on high alert about something that we had not been talking about. so yes, santos 401(k), discussing the stock market.

you look at the personnel in the amount of turnover, we will get to secretary -- former secretary mattis in a minute. who is running the shop? i do not know one that would've done that voluntarily and send everyone up in arms. to the market would be down, but you do not think that it is exponentially further down because of what he did? >> morgan: and what traders every day and has have been on wall street for six years, the markets are not to looking at what james mattis is doing, thas not what looking at. >> jessica: i'm just saying when you look at the quality of people that are in there and that kind of mistake that steve mnuchin made, which seems to be uniformly agreed upon, why did he make those calls? >> lisa: you are trying to get back in here is there something that you wanted us to say? >> buck: i was looking at the tax cuts, the overall climate, that has been a positive indicator that that actually lags a little bit. so the real effect of the tax

cuts may not be felt until the coming year. that may be something that is an updraft, but china, some of the other issues that you brought up, those could be downward pressure. also when the market is at an all-time high, when everybody is greedy coming want to be fearful. that is not a good christmas message. be happy, forget about the fear. >> jessica: president trump, you own the stock market high and then the low, but is on the flip side as well? people are criticizing him right now with the tumultuous market. let's say that he strikes a deal with china on trade and makes them gain they are, then the markets go higher, do they have to give him credit for that? >> morgan: you would hope that they would, but i do not think that the president will get any credit. they want to blame him for the stock market. he has come out obviously and lash back to the federal reserve chairman for raising interest rates which a lot of people thought that that was a really bad time for that. it's what happens after the new year. some advisors came out and said that he was told that he could not fire jerome powell.

i guess steve mnuchin set over the weekend that he never talked about possibly firing him. but i am wondering what the president plans -- >> jessica: mick mulvaney yesterday had to defend it. >> buck: unlike the doj, the fed actually is -- >> lisa: reacting to the news of the president talking about whether or not he could fire. that is something wall street is listening to. but wall street has no love lost to the fed either. you can go back historically, and not just reagan, but you can look at johnson who actually physically got in an altercation with the fed chair, so we are not there yet. >> julie: i don't know, give them a pair of boxing gloves. >> lisa: thank you for that, guys. we are not there yet, all right, stay tuned with us because the supreme court is upholding a ruling that blocks the trump administration latest attempt to manage the number of migrants seeking asylum at the border. what more can be done to head off a growing humanitarian crisis as some republicans say that mexico is doing more to confront the problems than

democrats in congress. plus a presidents order to withdrawal u.s. troops in syria getting mixed reaction from lawmakers on capitol hill. that debate is next. stay with us. speak of the president does not have a complete or even a partial understanding of what is at stake here in syria. isis is not defeated. eaner teet. she said, get the one inspired by dentists, with a round brush head. go pro with oral-b. oral-b's gentle rounded brush head removes more plaque along the gum line. for cleaner teeth and healthier gums. and unlike sonicare, oral-b is the first electric toothbrush brand accepted by the ada for its effectiveness and safety. what an amazing clean! i'll only use an oral-b! oral-b. brush like a pro.

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mattis signing orders to pull u.s. troops out of syria in the coming weeks. that according to a senior defense official. admitting that his resignation letter last thursday, the day after president trump declared that isis had been defeated, and he was ordering american troops out of the war torn country. yesterday it kind of changed a bit because president trump announced deputy secretary of defense shanahan will become active depends secretary of defense as of january 1st. that is two months earlier than he said it would be for his last day. he said, i will go through february so that they have time to find a replacement. then this morning there is this, the president tweeting we are substantially subsidizing the military. many rich countries all over the world will have the same time they take total advantage in the u.s. and the taxpayers on trade. general mattis did not see this as a problem, i do, and it is being fixed. in the meantime, general jack keane speaking on "america's newsroom" saying that the troops should stay in syria to help rebuild it.

listen. >> i totally disagree with the decision. i think that given that reality, i think that we should possibly modify a decision to pull all of our troops out of the near term and to use this opportunity to help stabilize and secure that area so that the reconstruction efforts can go forward and be completed. and isis does not interfere. >> julie: buck, general keane told me personally that he does not believe -- of the bare minimum should remain in syria, we are pulling them all out. this is the reason why his exit was expedited was because he made a very clear in his letter that he disagreed with the president. >> buck: the speed that has been suggested in the way that we found out about this from the president has rattled a lot of people. but the general said it himself, to stay in place for the reconstruction, there is clearly a move towards expanding the

mission in syria to not just the elimination of the islamic states caliphate which means getting rid of the territory, but people who keep going into the back and forth whether they are defeated are not are now in insurgency. probably for the next ten or 20 years. you will never eradicate the islamic state if you are looking to get every single fighter. but if you are looking to counterbalance iran and syria, never getting away of the assad regime, so now we will stay and counterbalance iran and russia, we cannot turn syria into a another operating base for u.s. troops and not understand that when we take on the mission said, you also have a greater responsibility for peacekeeping. you're going to have 20-year-olds from across the country who are going to be walking in the streets of rocco, essentially, and i think that the president doesn't want to do that. and the people that voted for them does not. >> julie: any decision is going to come with a lot of criticism from both sides, that's how the presidency has been going, so this is no surprise. but president sides were doing a similar thing by pulling out of

iraq and that backfired, how is this any different? >> jessica: the circumstances are different, different country, different threats, but the thing that is taking off conservatives who have been critical of president obama is that they have a conservative republican president that are getting policies that are looking similar. this is something that has united the left and the right, and brit hume over the weekend made a really important point that this could alienate president trump's conservative base. not to trump diehards who are a mishmash of libertarian, democrats, the more red meat base, but the conservative went along with him because they thought that it would get supreme court justices and rework the course and that they would have a foreign policy that looks like a traditional neocon foreign policy. this is not it. rand paul is the only one who is happy. spend the question of who will replace mattis, because a lot of people are thinking who is going to actually agree with the president? they say that they did not see eye to eye, but with military

official well? >> lisa: i do not necessarily disagree with jessica with jessica. >> jessica: a christmas miracle. >> lisa: i guess i am feeling the christmas spirit. >> julie: gives me a warm feeling. >> lisa: you are right in the sense that part of president trump, a lot of the republican base is hawkish. and i feel like mattis was a bridge to a lot of those republicans who felt comfortable with the president because he taxed mattis in the position and nominated him as a defense secretary. and i actually think of all of the people that have come and gone, this is the biggest loss. because i think the world leaders feared him, republicans and democrats respected him. you look at the military, 84% of the military meant military loved him. i do not know anyone who does not have respect for this man. this is a huge loss. and quite frankly i don't know who fills issues. >> buck: we have not mentioned the current for a lot of folks in the military that have been

working on the policy for a long time, doing the bulk of the fighting on the ground against the islamic state in syria. their real concerns about the turks going after essentially our allies with air strikes and military incursions. we do have a debt of honor in iraq and syria to at least help keep them safe from our supporters and allies including a nato ally who might go after them. so that's why this piece in the announcement is a concern. >> julie: there was a bipartisan letter that went to the president of the day after by several lawmakers, republican endeavor crowd, but marco rubio is very vocal saying when you talk about us abandoning them. and he talks about being true to the allies and wary of malign actors. so there you have both sides that have a big problem with this. >> lisa: there is a lot going on in the region, this is something that buck is talking about, and i was a little bit critical of our alliance for thn terms of them being the main fighters, they are some of the best fighters in the

middle east, but it is not a long-term sustainable strategy to rely on them specifically to be your main isis fighters. it was the best option that we had at the time. but there's something to point out that i mentioned on fox & friends yesterday. the the by pg, they have 1,000, about 1,000 detainees who are isis, most core leadership, so it is something that the kurds are holding up and saying, if they are after us to try to wipe us out, we will release the thousands of prisoners, why is that bad? because i would allow -- if the leadership was able to get back together, that would allow them to reconstitute. so here's the difference between what happened when president obama pulled all of the troops out of iraq towards president trump. it did not happen overnight that ice isis formed the a qi al qaeda, and iraq was constituted, it was a three or four your period where many of us were watching this happen. and i overall him with the more hawkish members of the party

that are not supportive. but what i would say is that this is something that we can monitor and see. the president is going to slow down what he was originally planning to do. so i think that is a positive step, clearly members of the senator talking to him. it is not like tomorrow or two months from now isis is going to reconstitute. this is something that we watched over a three year period with president obama. we can reconstitute this effort with president trump. spin on when it comes to comparing iraq and syria, let's compare president obama and president trump to syria, because there was a lot of backlash president obama because he did not want boots on the ground. remember that? we were going overhead and doing air strikes, doing all sorts of things from the air, but we were not actually in on the ground on our feet and he got a lot of flak from that. now we are pulling out altogether. >> buck: boots on the ground has to deal with the end state that we are seeking, and a lot of people look back at afghanistan and al qaeda, because that is a place where we would see a rapid troop

withdrawal from the president. in one of the last things with maybe we should've gotten out a whole lot sooner after taking out the taliban and the allies. in syria we do not want this to be another 20 year conflict. that means that you have to pull the plug before it is clear that everything will be fine. >> morgan: we are guiding the effort on the ground, not doing hardcore fighting, just to clear up. there is a strong reaction to the syria pullout from lawmakers on capitol hill. senator rand paul, a longtime critic in military intervention reiterating his support for the president's decision this weekend. >> i'm very proud of the president. this is exactly what he promised. and i think the people agree with him, actually. i think that they think we have been at war too long and too many places. the president promised that he would be different and it is one of the reasons that he won. >> morgan: but the new chair of the house republican conference liz cheney firing back at senator paul and doubling down on her firm opposition to the withdrawal. >> what we need to do is talk about the substance of these

policies. and he seems to be focused on blame america first, and unburdened by that. >> morgan: so we can nerd out on this for the next hour by ourselves, because this is what we love to do. but as it relates to senator paul, what really surprised me is how personally he went after john bolton, the president's national security advisor over the week and on twitter. really attacking him and saying that he was happy that he had to see the drawdown. often times it seems like the republican party is like three different parties. and i do not know how you put the pieces back together to have a cohesive foreign policy. >> buck: that is why there is so much ferocity within the republican party on this discussion. people are getting pretty nasty with each other on it. first and foremost, you are talking about u.s. troops, military commitment, the most important issue that we will deal with in terms of policy. but on top of that you have a republican party that now is united behind president trump. and there has never really been

a full accounting for the mistakes of the previous bush administration. and the people that were the foreign policy architects of that. the decision to go into iraq, the decisions about afghanistan. and i think that's where a lot of people that are coming forward that are anti-trump, maybe never-trump, but a lot of the bases looking at them and saying, you are the ones that made mistake after mistake in the middle east. we do not need you lecturing us. that's what came out. >> morgan: one of the things that the president forces the republican party to do is to have these uncomfortable conversations about foreign policy. and suddenly the people who are not criticizing the president over this decision were democrats. as we go into a 2020 where there will be so many democrats running, what do you think the democrats stand on foreign policy? because hillary had a different tweet. >> jessica: absolutely, we saw the division coming out in the primary, bernie sanders had a different form policy then

hillary clinton, sometimes bernie and trump sounded more like. i think it will be a big issue, there will be a far left progressive candidate, whether it is elizabeth warren, bernie sanders running back, but i think that you will see a moderate traditional foreign policy coming out of the democrats. what hillary clinton would've looked at. even just to harness the anti-trump agency. we did not to even mention that brett mcgurk who was running the counter isis attack force even though president trump thinks that he is an obama appointee has decided that he is going to leave over the syria withdrawal. that is a point -- >> lisa: he is just leaving early. >> jessica: okay. and in a huff. >> buck: it is something of a christmas miracle that donald trump has been able to convince so many liberals that military intervention is good and the fbi is beyond reproach. >> lisa: there are also republicans like me they feel conflicted on the subject in the sense that it's a lindsey graham

of the world, i would rather have them come out and say what they really want to say of me would be there indefinitely in syria. what is the angle for senator it lindsey graham? i see that side. but you look at syria, and we put out the iran deal in an effort to contain iran, but then we are feeding syria to them. so that is conflicting. the kurds is also another issue that i have concern with. and one has it ever worked out for a president to try to declare victory over a terrorist organization? if it is not isis, it is a qap in yemen, we are going to deal with terrorism because it is an ideology that we we are fightig essentially for the rest of our lives and possibly our childrens as well, so that does not work , so i am very conflicted on this issue just to be perfectly honest. >> morgan: merry christmas to that, lisa, supreme court with a new push to deny asylum to migrants. this is a shutdown over border security continues. is there hope for a deal? we will debate it next.

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♪ >> jessica: the white house announcing that homeland secretary is said to him meet with president trump at the white house at 2:00 p.m. eastern time to discuss border security. this after the supreme court friday upheld a circuit court decision blocking the trump administration from immediately enforcing a new policy. which were denied asylum to

migrants illegally crossing at the southern border. 5-4, with john roberts siding with the court's liberal wing. meantime, partisan think gear continues over the shutdown. a centered around the demand for substantial border wall funding. house, freedom caucus chairman blaming democrats for the lack of immigration reform. >> yes, they do say that they are for border security, but for everything that does not matter when it really gets to sanctuary cities or case law, or a barrier, or asylum reform, they are absolute "no" and you can look at the voting record and verified that. >> jessica: there two issues at play, the supreme court ruling which basically says that the president could not send people away and deny them the right to claim a asylum, do you think going forward how many migrants will be coming back now? >> buck: it is not a final decision, they say that for now.

>> jessica: there upholding the ruling. >> buck: because the request was a stay, and nobody is surprised by it. here's the problem that we talk about in asylum and the different laws, yes, it is true if you show up and go through the credible fear screening process you are supposed to be brought into the overall assigning process, and they say that that is the law. the president says that the chief executive he can make decisions about national security that would deal with that, obviously the court so far has said not so fast. the big problem is on the back and when people do not get asylum and over 80% so far of those from central america that have been claiming some do not actually get asylum. then there is no will political or otherwise to force the deportation orders that come with a lack of asylum. with the democrats are the letter of the law, and you get to ask for it even if you cross into the country illegally and request defense of asylum, you can't think going in illegally, no one asylum. even if you do that you are in the process, so unless you deal

with a back end, that's a big immigration scandal. that's why he is frustrated. >> jessica: what do you make of this, julie? do you think that we will have any progress on the deal? >> julie: as far as the new asylum that you were seeking you have to go to mexico and wait there for your proceeding. that is something that i thought was a positive negotiation. but when it comes to asylum-seekers to begin with, most of those who just come into the country the right way, they get a signed court dates. and those court dates are months down the road -- >> buck: years. >> julie: and they do not even show up. >> jessica: that is doj stats that show they people are coming up. >> lisa: i think that this is a great policy announcement from the president regarding keeping asylum-seekers in mexico. clearly they figured out how to gain the system. you look at as buck alluded to, 89% will pass the interview, but for the interviews that come up in court, only 9% will be granted asylum, so the first interview was way too easy. we need to make that threshold

much more difficult for people seeking the fear threshold. and the word has gotten out that if you come over as a family unit you will be able to stay here and be treated differently. we have seen it over the past two months alone. 307% increase in family units crossing over the border. how they get that message when president trump tried to do the tolerance policy, he was unable to do that. and we saw a massive influence peddling the changes for asylum laws, make it tougher which limits the amount of time that children could be detained, there a lot of changes that need to be made. >> jessica: lisa brought up something porton, demonstration tried to change the quota for the credible threat. so that it went from not just being the government, but it could be -- it had to be the government and personal. it cannot be your husband or gang violence, what do you make of that? it seems scary to me if you have gangs coming after your you live at a home where your husband is beating you.

speak or i could you around region after region to the desolate parts that i visit. i'm in kabul, afghanistan, every other year. there is enough tragedy and travesty around the world that that is, i have a lot of sympathy for that argument and i understand what you're saying, but i also travel the world enough to know that there are so many dangerous and dark places that will be needed is not executive order fixes on immigration we need congress to come together for a comprehensive deal. and as long as any administration including the obama administration, the trump administration as long as they are making about policy, you will have the courts stricken down doing this, doing that until you have a comprehensive deal. >> jessica: we can all agree on that. >> buck: another christmas miracle. >> jessica: democratic congresswoman elect calling for congress not to get paid during future shutdown. so why do lawmakers get paid while other government workers don't? we will debate it next.

>> lisa: hundreds of thousands of employees might not get paid. the members of congress are not furloughed, and still poised to have their checks cut. newly elected new york congresswoman is making waves calling on lawmakers to forfeit their pay during the next shutdown. the self-described democratic socialist taking to twitter writing "next time we have a government shutdown, congressional salaries should be furloughed as well. it is completely unacceptable that members of congress can force a shutdown on partisan lines and then have congressional salaries exempt from that decision, have some integrity. congress gets paid because of the 27th amendment that prevents them from changing their salaries to the start of the new term.

so, is she feel so strongly about this, surely that shut is likely going to go into next congress should she put her money where her mouth is and forfeit her salary? >> buck: whoever is advising the twitter is making a fair point, which is not just this time, but many times congress is somewhat separate because of insider trading for a long time. which is completely ridiculous. >> lisa: obamacare. >> jessica: i do not know why you are pointing at me when it is completely ridiculous. insider trading, i got it. >> lisa: has not pointed at me. >> jessica: i am perfect and i am leaving this. >> buck: she makes a fair point, and i think that alexandria ocasio-cortez makes a fair point, we should say that she did, but will she give up her salary, probably not. >> jessica: i think that she will give up her salary, from the moment she shows up she is not going to make a fumble like that. and we were just talking in the break about how vilified the

conservatives have made alexandria ocasio-cortez, unnecessarily and elevated her to a level. when you talk about her as much as people have been serving in congress for decades. and she is going to be a freshman. so people should let her do her thing. she is bringing a new level of transparency to congress which i certainly appreciate and i know that her constituents do. don't take the bait on it. >> lisa: president trump does the same thing that he puts it on twitter and he is criticized. >> jessica: she is doing these videos and talking about what is going on from inside the chamber there. a lot of people have objections to how president trump is using it to conduct foreign policy. the number of frankly lies that come across the twitter account that she has fewer looking at "the washington post" ." >> morgan: she called it for her statements. that is like well documented. she screwed up a lot. but actually, she is getting attention on this. i actually retreated and said that i agree with her. so the world is ending,

apparently. but it's congresswoman who is here in new york was the youngest to be sworn in when she was a couple of terms ago. she actually wrote a letter to i believe that it was the chief administrative officer that distributes a salary asking for her pay to be withheld until the shutdown is over. so what aoc is putting out there is not a novel, there is sitting members of congress on both sides of the aisle saying please withhold my pay. >> jessica: or they give it to charity. >> morgan: that's what the american people are looking for, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. so i think that everybody in the congress should step up and write to the chief administrative officer and put their salary on hold until the shutdown is over. and for each congressman who does not do that, i would like an answer. >> lisa: you hear that, congress? >> buck: i want to get on this stuff too. >> lisa: back to the issue of the furlough, a lot of these government workers are going to get back pay. we have seen this before with government shutdowns, do you

think that the media and people are making too big of a deal of this? >> buck: life is not fun for people that will wait, especially end especially end-of-the-year expenses. we should not ignore that part. but there has been a long-standing tradition of congress making sure that every dollar that you were supposed to get paid you do. and i think that the american people would be outraged and rightfully so if that did not happen. we should not force people to work and not let them get paid. but there is so much of this that shows you who is essential personnel and who is not. maybe the government could get smaller at some point. >> lisa: it must be christmas, because we have had a lot of bipartisan agreement. >> jessica: i did not think that the government was too big. >> lisa: we were ending on a good note, more "outnumbered" in just a minute. so stay with us. vascepa. prescription vascepa. vascepa, along with diet and exercise, has proven results in multiple clinical trials.

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amarin thanks the clinicians and patients who participated and then, more jobs robegan to appear.. what started with one job spread all around. because each job in energy creates many more in this town. >> lisa: thank you to my friend buck sexton, any words of wisdom? >> buck: happy holidays, merry christmas. i will not see you, so happy new

year as well. that's as wise as i get. >> jessica: 2019 when nancy pelosi rolls in. >> lisa: we have her back tomorrow at 12:00 eastern, here is julie banderas in for harris. ♪ >> julie: fox news alert, shutdown standoff with no end in sight. let's go's between one paradigm julie banderas in for harris faulkner. so the white house warning a possible shutdown could stretch into january, folks. this as a president and democrats continue to battle over his border wall. in funding for it, white house chief of staff mick mulvaney saying, basically nancy pelosi's plan to be speaker could push any deal to the start date of the next congress. >> i think that it was a really good question asked whether or not to the deal can be cut before the new congress comes in. i think that there is an impl