>> heather: you know what? it's the future. when are we done? five seconds from now because "outnumbered" starts. >> rick: right now. >> heather: see you tomorrow. >> this is a fox news alert, the wild ride that is the doubt continues. dipping once again after yesterday's major gain. more than 1,000 points. the biggest gain in history. that surge coming off about some mulch was few days of trading. we are going to continue to talk more about it and what it all means for you going forward. another fox news alert, the president now back at the white house after making a christmas visit. where the president and first lady pose for pictures with service members and delivered a message. i'm kennedy. welcome. we've got lisa boothe. there she is, julie.

fox news contributor jessica tarlov. joining us, the man in the middle, it is james freeman, assistant editor of "the wall street journal" editorial page. we've got a lot to talk about. >> james: thanks, good to be here. >> kennedy: this is a joyous week. >> james: you now, i feel like that every day. especially today. >> kennedy: let's start with president trump unannounced trip. he and the first lady flying under the cover of darkness for security reasons. spending about three hours on the ground there, taking selfie selfies, thinking the troops for their service. germany on the way back in, meeting with service members and military leaders. the president also using it to outline future strategy. the commander in chief saying u.s. troops will remain in

iraq -- his recent decision to bring troops home from syria. watch. >> there will be a strong, deliberate, orderly withdrawal from u.s. forces from syria. a very deliberate very orderly. while maintaining the u.s. presence in iraq it to you it prevents resurgence and to protect u.s. interest and also to always watch very closely over any potential re-formation of isis and also to watch over iran. we will be watching. >> kennedy: let's go to ellison barber who has more from the white house. >> hi, kennedy. they left in the dead of night, towards the very end of christmas day. the president said when they were on air force one, he had never experienced anything like it. all of it for security. this was his first visit with

troops stationed in combat, since taking office. came on the heels of his decision to start withdrawing troops. spent about three hours -- did not awaits with the iraqi prime minister. they would cancel for security and logistical reasons. they were expecting a formal reception and meeting. it divergence to organize the meeting led to it being cancele canceled. the white house says that they did accept an invitation to visit washington, d.c. at mr. defended his decision to drop down troops in syria, telling soldiers that other countries like turkey need to sd of the cost. >> we may defeat terrorist armies on the battlefield. each nation of the world must decide for themselves what kind of future it wants to build for

its people. america shouldn't be doing the fighting for every nation on earth. if they want us to do the fighting, they also have to pay a price. and sometimes that is also a monetary price. so we are not the suckers of the world. >> withdrawing troops from syria is controversial. it is a mistake. it despite objections to the contrary, this was not an impetuous decision. >> our presence in syria was not open-ended. it was never intended to be permanent. one year ago, i gave our general six more months in syria. i said go ahead, get them. it turns out it was really a year and a half ago. i said go get them. we need six months. go get them. they said give us another six months, i said go get them. then they said can we have one more? i said nope.

no. i said i gave you a lot of six months. now we are doing at a different way. >> he once called the decision to invade iraq "the single worst decision ever made." he has no plans to withdraw troops from the country. kennedy. >> kennedy: thanks so much for that report. let's discuss. james, i will start with you. the president drew criticism for not having visited the troops. what does it do for him and for them? >> a lot of questioning after the announcement that he is leaving. it can seem like it was kind of abrupt to a lot of people. he has been explaining how he has wanted to come out for a while. the territory has been reclaimed from isis, and if they need to come back and strike isis, they can do that.

>> kennedy: let's talk a little bit about afghanistan. apparently they didn't want to visit there because of the instability, but there has been a pretty big troop drawdown. the president has made no bones about the fact that he doesn't like these words, but they are in fact his words, so is this good strategy in syria and afghanistan? >> lisa: i am truly conflicted because i see that presence point. lindsey graham, essentially what they want is to be there and definitely then alternatively, you look at how he tried to contain iran, but then i have an issue with that. i have an issue with what happens, they say that they are going to bury them, so i worry about the position that that puts the kurds in. i don't think it has ever worked out or a president to prematurely control -- whether it is in yemen, so i think there

is a danger there. it didn't work out for george w. bush with the "mission accomplished" speech. it didn't work out with obama and benghazi. it to be perfectly honest, i am truly conflicted. i am listening to everyone on the issue, but honestly, i don't know what the answer is. >> kennedy: julie. >> julie: i think taking advice from a murderous regime, pulling out because of turkey and russia -- the fact that russia and turkey are supportive of the united states, praising us for making a decision, there lies a huge problem. i also had an issue with the phrase "we are not the suckers of the world." he used that term three times. i would never consider us suckers. we always led the fight in every single major work. our military were men and womet

does that say to the families of those who lost people? >> kennedy: i will push back. i think it speaks to their bravery, these people who enlist, they are incredibly brave because sometimes they put themselves in harm's way for incursions and wars that downed -- >> julie: that we shouldn't be involved in. >> kennedy: i agree with the president that we shouldn't be footing the bill for the rest of the spear the rest of the world has no problem relying on us so that they can bolster their social programs. that is what makes us suckers. >> julie: i get that. before he ran for president, he did not believe that we should be there, but now that he has been there, he realizes the need. the fight in syria, before he became elected, he also said we shouldn't be in syria. then he went ahead and conduct of those air strikes. those children and civilians were killed, and they were aghast, he was livid.

he was very upset about that. he should not be there to do all of the i guess damage control, but i do believe that it could be taken the wrong way. >> jessica: not used it as a campaign rally. when you use language like that and the word "suckers" -- >> julie: the border wall, that didn't have a place there. >> kennedy: he always talks about what he is feeling. that is what he does. >> jessica: i'm not saying that it's inconsistent. i'm saying it's a problem all the time, especially when you are face to face with the people who are putting their lives on the line, using language like that, it could be interpreted that way they julie felt, and frankly the way that i felt. he could have said thank you for your service.

>> julie: he got so much criticism for not going over there. i understand. he should visit the troops, especially those who are separated from their families during the holidays. then he goes over, and now you have an issue with what he says. you can't really have it both ways. he was criticized prematurely for not going, then he goes, and you have people like johnny, criticizing him for signing the maga hats. he can't win max, anywhere. >> james: you see the whole speech, you read the text, there is no way that -- he went on and on, expressing gratitude. no force in history has done more for the causes of justice and peace. i think the "suckers" line, that is about the united states footing the bill. he puts this an artful language compared to his predecessors, but they all said what he is

saying. we don't want to do nation-building. we want to beat up isis. he is not signing up for trying to run syria. and i think most people in the country, although we could debate what the result of that is going to be, they would probably agree. may be the play is to put economic pressure like we do with iran, starting to bite there. maybe that is a better way. >> julie: i also like the idea of the free-trade deals, where there has been so much military conflict because when you have goods and services exchanged between free nations, that is when people rise out of conflict. >> jessica: can i add to your point -- i have ratted a member of times, and i was a member of the media who jumped on him for not going -- >> kennedy: good for you, jess. that's why we love you. >> jessica: you see how much he cares about the military.

his approval rating with the military, at 44%. jim mattis is at 84%. why is that? if he is the most beloved and of the most supportive of the military, why is his approval rating under 50%? i think we can agree that when he is standing up there, this is your first pay raise you've gotten in ten years, which is a categorical life. if i raise it 10%, it goes up 2.8%, they on the paychecks, they know what they are earning. why is that productive to go out there and do that? does that contribute to his low approval rating with the military? >> lisa: i think that could be problematic. there are a lot of people on the left and right who saw him as a really key figure in the administration. he is a product of the military. that is something that resonates within him, and the people who served really feel like he has their backs. he protects them and understands

them. the other point is president -- we are so spread out. that just doesn't make sense. but he has to get some support if we are going to limit our defense spending and keep people, civilians and u.s. men and women in the military from being slaughtered, we have to take a different approach. >> james: he has a much lower approval rating than a commander -- >> jessica: 44%. >> james: everyone in the military is allowed to have different views on politics just like the rest of us. i think it would be weird if a commander who should be nonpartisan and leading the troops is down there with politicians. >> jessica: but the president president -- >> james: yes, there rating is generally not that strong. >> kennedy: democrats, they have a reading problem. they don't even have a candidate. a new poll shows the person they

most want to see take on the president doesn't even have a name. at least not yet. we will explain the debate. plus partial government government shutdown now in day six. right now, no and insight. refusing to budge. so what will it take to make a deal? we will hash all of that out next. >> i think i will say i don't want the wall, and then they are going to give it to me. i figured out the solution. tell nancy pelosi i don't want the wall. oh, we want the wall. then we get the wall. we have to have it.

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>> we will honor your service by doing everything in our power to defend our homeland and to stop terrorists from entering america's shores. and that includes it strengthening our borders. i don't know if you folks are aware of what is happening. we want to have strong borders in the united states. the democrats don't want us to have strong borders. only for one reason, you know why? because i wanted. >> kennedy: showing no signs of backing off of the border wall. his surprise visit to the troops yesterday. the partial government shutdown now in its sixth day with no deal insight. democrats continuing to insist the wall is a nonstarter, but the president isn't taking no for an answer. doubling down on his position this morning, saying have the democrats finally realize that we desperately need border security and oh wall on the southern border? need to stop drug is a common human trafficking, criminals

coming into our country. do they know that most people not getting paid are democrats. peter doocy is life. scheduled to be back for an hour today. i make it, peter? >> the break that they give themselves after failing to pass a bill that would avoid a partial government shutdown is going to end this afternoon when both chambers come and just after 4:00, but the hallways not filled with lawmakers. of the, with the exception of a few tourists, are empty. >> not much is happening in washington as best as i can tell. the present needs to sign a bill, schumer needs to get ten votes for it to pass in the senate. hopefully when schumer decides that he agrees we need security on our mexico border, we will be able to go back to work. >> lawmakers are tweeting. a kamala harris is framing the impact of the shots on like this. she says as you head back home this week, remember,

approximately 53,000 tsa agents are not being paid to be at work right now during one of the busiest travel times of the year. please be sure to be patient during this time. we don't know if democratic leaders are willing to agree to any tax dollars, but it does seem like they have removed themselves from the process on the hill after trying to move forward with the $5 billion in border wall up money. so it is up to chuck schumer to the garage with the middle ground is, and a democrat so far seem satisfied to let the shutdown last as long as possible or at least last until next week when democrats take over the house. might get some sort of credit for fixing things were for ending the shutdown, but just to give you a sense of how empty it the hallways are, i just walked by the majority leader's office, mitch mcconnell, and the door is closed, he's got a stack of mail and newspapers outside. julie periods before you come i don't think they're going to be getting to that anytime soon,

including the vote. peter doocy, thank you very muc much. they have no reason to come to the table at this point. half of them are not even in town. they are waiting until january 3rd. that is their day that they are planning on making some changes. do you really think that the democrats are going to come to the table? come up with a compromise? >> james: yeah, i am not sure which day it is going to be. i don't think that they can sustain this current position. they have conceded all of the principles. they have already agreed that billions ought to be spent. you ought to secure the border. they want to say fencing, don't call it oh, well. that is not really a principal. i think the president has a leverage. i don't know exactly how many dollars he is going to get, and i don't know whether the legislation is going to have the word "wall" in it, but he is going to get money for erecting more of a barrier. maybe he can get a deal done.

more enhancer border security. >> julie: it is getting silly at this point. it does come down to a couple billion dollars. he has come down a lot, significantly. he originally wanted way more money. he was -- it was a huge drop for him. it almost seems like the democrats need to do something and show that they are willing. if they really want to put their money where their mouth is. yes, we want to strengthen our borders, put this money towards border security. why not just go ahead and cough up the dough? >> lisa: they really believe that government can solve every problem, and if that is the case, show us how the system is working. if not, show us how to fix it. instead, nancy pelosi is making comments, and that is incredibly insensitive when you have families that are detained in facilities that were not meant to house families. and you've got people that are

sending kids on a company. i know we are going to talk about that a little bit later, but you do have to have some bigger ideas. you have to break the mold and have that kind of thinking that makes this country better. makes the world better, it's a ripple effect. they are not doing that right now. when it's just a semantic distinction, withholding a few billion dollars, which in my world -- i wouldn't mind if you billion dollars. there has to be something bigger. there has to be something more. if they are just abandoning the idea that government is going to help everybody, that's great because it's realistic, but it also says that you are big fat hypocrites. in >> lisa: can we just say that this is the dumbest fight ever. there is literally no difference between fans or wall. you were already supporting a physical structure. who cares if it's taller or bill differently?

it is the exact same thing. this is the dumbest fight of all time. the trump administration has already demonstrated they are willing to compromise on this. mick mulvaney said that they have already come down on the $5 million. my only concern here is i don't know how they have come to the middle. we have one side, chuck schumer singh we are not giving you any money, then president trump saying i'm not signing anything unless it has wall funding. where is the compromise in that? when does you are going to have more gridlock. at democratic-controlled house, you need 60 votes in the senate. i think this is going to get real interesting. >> kennedy: jesse, this comes down to you. you need to solve this. fix our problem. so this is the deal, i know that they cannot stand when they hear the president say that they just want to open our borders. democrats don't want to open

borders. >> kennedy: i don't know about that. >> julie: if democrats don't want open borders, and they do you want to tighten security with a mere $3 billion or so, how is it that they plan on doing that -- why not just give in and show that they want immigration reform. it's not going to come cheap. >> jessica: immigration reform is a separate issue. it would be great if they said it was the way forward, both sides agree with it when there is some bid to get reelected. i am moving that you decide, that 1.6 billion that chuck schumer offered to president trump before they had the meeting that i was televised and it president trump said absolutely not. 5 billion is what i need, and if not, i'm going to shut down the government. so i actually don't think that he has a leverage because he is on tv, having said he is going to own it. 1.34 border security. he has said i don't care if it

has spikes with the points on the top of that, he tweeted out that image. he is flexible about the type of structure. it is semantics to a large degree here. i would like to see democrats go back to what they have already said. also to get something in return. children are dying in our custody, and what is going on with mexico, to say that we want to have more money, more lawyers, more judges, whatever we need to -- they are right to do, move faster. and it safe. >> lisa: this conversation about the blame game is totally irrelevant. the 2020 election is so far away. it is an irrelevant conversation to be had. by the time it comes up in 2020, everyone will have forgotten about it. >> kennedy: i want to ask you this because i think it is a

really important point. there are lots of libertarians who think that we should have a better immigration process. so that they can participate in the economy. the last prohibition, the more likely they are to go home. the problem is when you are willing to offer people things like medicaid and housing and all sorts of medical and education assistance, because you can't afford to do that for every country in the world. >> jessica: you know, but it's not every country in the world that is coming. we are facing humanitarian crises in honduras, guatemala and -- >> kennedy: why does all of that have to fall on the united states? >> jessica: i don't think that it does. presidents before trump have also spoken about this, not in the same town. >> lisa: only 90% of the people who apply for asylum are not going to be granted asylum. 89% will get past that initial interview. it's not real. >> jessica: they are coming

here for economic opportunities. i am not saying it is not an issue. >> kennedy: we should just blow out all of the other segments. it is her fault. james, you are good. one day after historic gains, what is behind the market volatility? just how closely the average american is watching. plus, i knew poll showing democrats are excited about fresh face running for president in 2020. who is it? we don't know. retaking the white house. superhighway. (phone ringing) and the car has become an accessory to the smartphone. ride hailing, car sharing, carpooling... mobility services are proliferating. and there's a new generation who don't seem to want to own cars in the first place. it all means massive disruption to the car industry,

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to help you sort through your options and find a perfect place. a place for mom. you know your family we know senior living. together we'll make the right choice. >> julie: the dow once again tumbling. now it is down more than 400.1 day after the index soared to a 1,000.5. lingering worries about the economy, trade, and the partial government shutdown. continued criticism of the federal reserve, sparking speculation. but the white house has repeatedly denied that. here is chairman of the council of economic advisors. kevin. listen. >> of course, 100%. >> his job is not determined by

this president. >> kennedy: jerome powell has told white house officials he is open to their suggestions that he meet directly with president trump to explain the fed's interest rate hike. okay, james freeman, you work at "the wall street journal." tell us what is going on. they always have a tricky relationship, is this unusual? >> james: it's a little unusual that it is this over it. there is a question of how independent are they? they wanted to be insulated from politics. that's part of the design. we should note there track record is not so hot. whether or not they are independent, so i think like all of us, president trump is probably right to be paranoid about the fed screwing up as they have. but i think the fed chairman, jay powell, has a good case for why rates should continue to rise. >> kennedy: they were kept unnaturally low for a long time,

which created a "wall street journal." they are looking down the road at inflation. we are not seeing the kind of inflationary caution that jay powell is forecasting. it's not there. >> james: it is good that we are not seeing it. at the federal funds rate, this is the rate that they have, that banks lend to each other. write about at the level of inflation. so in other words, they are paying nothing to borrow. you look through history, usually borrowers have to pay something. it is not such a bad thing for rates to rise a little bit, for people to finally be able to get a return on their savings during this past decade, you mention, it hasn't been so great for savers. >> kennedy: also talking about the government shutdown, end. >> lisa: what might be problematic for the present or the markets right now, where are

the biggest problems in terms of either trade or the wall? the shutdown, and other issues that are exacerbated? >> jessica: i think the wall is something that we can focus on. talking about that, the march 1st deadline, to really see where we are going to fall with china. that will be huge for the economy. either good or bad, the market is a difficult sticking point for him because he is so quick to take credit for the mess of gains, so now when things are not looking good, it should logically also be his fault, but i think how he comes out on trade, because it was such a big part of his campaign as well, actually if you democrats -- more towards the president's position on protectionist trade policies. bernie sanders as well. there is a constituency in the middle, democrats looking at this very closely. people out there in the farming

and manufacturing, intellectual property, where we all came down on it. the president is considering actually sanctioning -- he gave a big break to. so we will have to see that. longer term today. >> kennedy: is she right, lisa boothe? >> lisa: no. he owns the highs, the lows, we will see if you give him any credit for that. right now, it is a way too earl early. historic gains, there has been a lot of volatility. we really don't know what things are going to look like before election day. let's say that he does strike some sort of deal with china. it is way too early ahead of 2020. if the markets are heading in, other things on as well, if the economy is not strong, of course that is going to hurt president trump.

he ran on being job at present. and that is his key to reelection. if it is not, that is going to hurt him greatly. we are so far away from that point, that we should and read too much into what is going on. >> kennedy: the presidency you shouldn't just rest on the markets. >> julie: i think this president is very proud of the economy, as he should be. i know that a lot of democrats would like to say that you should thank the presidency who was in office two, three, four years ago, but you have to take a look at this. especially when you see what has happened on wall street, i think that the rebound that we saw after christmas day is pretty incredible. that speaks volumes. the asian markets, when they opened up, this morning for us, when washington is not doing what it is supposed to be doing, any major news coming out of washington, the stock market and

wall street seems to respond in a positive way. >> kennedy: we are running out of time. is volatility the new normal? >> james: you, for a while. maybe. the market fluctuates. the economy is still pretty strong, though. i think people who are calling for a recession next year will probably be disappointed. >> kennedy: i like that. >> lisa: i think everyone who says bear market, also. >> kennedy: second migrant child dies in u.s. custody. the department of homeland security now promising to make changes to keep kids safer. while democrats are now demanding a hearing, we will dig into that next. ♪ ozempic®! ♪ (vo) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. oh! under seven?

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♪ >> lisa: democrats pledging to investigate after the second death of a child in the u.s. border patrol custody. kirstjen nielsen announced migrant children -- "this tragedy, the death of the child in custody is tragic. we will have a hands-on assessment. whether or not a company familt

asks for one ankle. house minority whip plans to take further action in the new year saying "after the new begins, i will continue to work closely with his leadership and members to ensure that congress does its job and holds that the administration accountable. " james, why is anyone blaming the government for this child's de? >> james: you might be urging this caravan, et cetera. as long as you have a situation where people think it makes sense, they have an incentive to cross the border illegally with children, you're probably going to have a problem. if there's a policy change the democrats want as we have been

discussing, this is a great moment to say you get your wall funding and we get this change, for how people are treated at the border. >> lisa: i find it disgusting that people are placing blame on immigration officials. if you look at the information released, they provided care and medicine and at one point, the father denied care and that it was another checkup where they sell the child was not doing well and took the child back to receive further care and that's when the child passed away. obviously this is incredibly sad but why in the world is anyone pointing the finger at immigration officials when it certainly looks like they did everything they could to save the child's life? >> kennedy: >> jessica: a few w, another child died in our custody. this child that just died was with us for over 130 hours, doubled the time that is legally sanctioned for that to be going on. i don't know what the solution is and i think the zero tolerance policy, that has

failed. and same with the deprivation policies that have failed. with president trump, he didn't go in there and allow the child to die. absolutely not but if you look at the direct these policies, directed under the administration, different than president obama's, you can see why people are blaming the president himself and the presence of border patrol. >> lisa: but obviously the father was trying to seek a better life for his child but they took the child on a very dangerous journey. is there any onus on -- it's a dangerous, dangerous journey. >> jessica: absolutely. there are more unaccompanied children coming saying you can come with the rest of them but we need to fix what they are doing once they are coming here because they are coming here. and unilaterally holding them there is not going to be a solution. >> kennedy: we are doing anything unilaterally.

it's incredibly heartless to consider people with no money and no opportunity and encourage them to make this perilous journey. the kids showed up sick because some little bodies can't withstand that. and when they are interfaced with diseases, they cannot fight them. i have a really hard time. one democratic lawmaker is looking into civil and criminal charges of neglect for people in cp p. that's not border patrol. we are asking them to do too much because lately congress can't figure out a way. there's not going to be comprehensive immigration refor reform. that's not going to happen. so you have to take -- she is absolutely right. you are absolutely right. you have to take the parts of immigration that are broken and immoral and wrong, figure out what they are piece by piece and fix them. stop haggling over $1.5 billion for a border wall and make things better. family separation may be

traumatizing but he is not the first president engaging in family separation. >> lisa: i want to get julie in the mix. justice point, to jessica's point, only 9% actually will get granted asylum. the broader issue is changing the asylum laws. when you get here, unless you actually have a concern at hand, you are not going to get granted asylum in the united states. people without borders came under fire from migrants. isn't the issue before they even arrive at the united states. ? >> julie: it should be but that's not how it works. if you are in the immigrant, they aren't considering the ramifications of what could potentially happen to their children if they drag them across the border and put them into dangerous situations. you are talking about the amount of hours this child was being detained. in fact, this child with the

family, not separated but together, are allowed to be held for 20 days. this family had not been held for 20 days. it would have been 480 hours with the child held in captivity if you want to call it that or being held for 480 hours. the child became sick. it's on the parents. >> james: you get the security and bedding and all that but let's think about anymore of them in. birthrates are very low, immigration has been very low in the last decade, maybe there's a solution. >> kennedy: that sounds like a great note and on. it's very confusing where they're going to close the borders we better go quickly and then on the other hand, it is catch and release, they are not doing anything. they are letting families in. let's go ahead and send the kid kids. >> lisa: maybe one day we will have some kind of affirmative action. independence being asked who they are most excited about to take on trump in 2020.

it seems like they're not really ready to admit that's going to be. we will discuss that, next. the new capital one savor card. earn 4% cash back on dining and 4% on entertainment. now when you go out, you cash in. what's in your wallet?

♪ ♪ i'm looking for new love, baby ♪ >> jessica: most democratic and independent voters apparently looking for a new, so to speak. when given a list of possible contenders for "someone new," it takes the top spot. close second, joe biden. hardly a new fave followed by

bernie sanders and beto o'rourk o'rourke. the former vice president is upset his former boss barack obama is looking at other democrats for a possible run. there was an enthusiastic national following for beto o'rourke against the senate race with ted cruz. >> julie: that didn't make joe biden very happy, apparentl apparently. he wants someone new. >> jessica: no, he's not. and stacy abrams lost. >> julie: to be fair, it was a loss in texas. >> jessica: james, who do you make of this? who is going to run as a democrat and are you going to become a democrat? [laughter] >> james: i definitely like "someone new." does this mean that over auric is so minutes ago or does he count? >> jessica: he definitely

counts as someone new. >> james: his dad called him beto because he felt it would help him run with mexican and american voters. >> jessica: his grandfather had the same name. so he was given this name to distinguish. >> james: his father knew he would be potentially be running in an area with guatemalan and mexican americans. >> julie: he also wrote a skateboard across the stage. he's so cool. >> lisa: the bigger issue for democrats, with bernie sanders or joe biden, the problem you have it so many people running for office, we have zero idea of who's going to end up breaking through? a lot of these guys are going to have a tough time breaking through a primary crowd. you have to be something that catches the nun attention of

enough primary voters. >> kennedy: really good point. unfortunately, what it means to be president is you have to be all the things for the presidency has become so incredibly incredible. and now it is a cult of personalities. you have to be a messianic, transformational figure like bill clinton or barack obama. i don't see anyone like that in this group. i don't think they're going to settle with an older moderate like joe biden. i think he would have a really tough time breaking through. i'm not surprised to see democrats wanting to kick a few tires but where else are they going to go? you had every conceivable type of person flirt with the idea. like michael avenatti, oprah winfrey. and not to mention the 13-14 democratic senators thinking about making a run.

>> jessica: what about black and hispanic voters? >> julie: it really is a notoriety contact. and joe biden is well known but kamala harris got a lot of democratic support during the hearings. she could potentially surprise joe biden. if they have some debates, she could do quite well. a lot of people forget that joe biden became the punch line of a lot of jokes in the time that he was in the white house. i think people forget that because they miss obama so much that they want to grab onto whatever is associated with him so they go with joe biden. >> jessica: there is talk that joe biden's politics would be interesting. we will be back with more "outnumbered" in just a moment.

>> kennedy: big thanks to james freeman. did you have a good time on the couch? >> james: i didn't even feel outnumbered. i had a great time.

>> kennedy: it's new year's day every day on the couch. >> lisa: i think we should put christmas trees up year-round. we will be back tomorrow on the couch at noon eastern, we will go to julie banderas, and for harris. >> julie: let's go "outnumbered: overtime." i am julie banderas and for harris faulkner. an unannounced visit to iraq, trump told service members "u.s. troops will stay in that country to keep a check on isis unprepared " >> our presence in syria, it was never intended to be permanent. the men and women who have served are entitled to clear objectives and the confidence that whe