the shutdown is not over. >> sandra: yeah. well, definitely not over. >> bill: not concrete, but steel. have you had enough from me today? [laughter] >> sandra: i wish we had better news, but that's not the case. "outnumbered" starts now. >> melissa: fox news alert, the government shut down now on the verge of becoming the second longest in u.s. history. if there is no deal by the end of today, for now, still no sign of a breakthrough in negotiations. this is "outnumbered," and i'm melissa francis. here's today's harris faulkner, former ohio state democratic minority leader, capri cafaro. host of "kennedy" on the fox business network, kennedy. joining us on the couch, my former tv has been, host of bulls and bears on the fox business network, my beloved david asman. we are still next-door neighbors! >> david: we are, we are very close. back-to-back, that's right. >> melissa: b have a lot to get to!

let's do it. >> david: breaking news included. >> melissa: the shutdown now in its third week. president trump holding the line in his push for over $5,000 in border wall funding. democrats are meeting steadfast in their opposition. vice president of mike pence leading talks over the weekend as negotiations drag on. president trump yesterday warning that he could declare a national emergency to get border wall funding if democrats don't budge. watch. >> we have a crisis at the border of drugs, of human beings being traffic all over the world. they're coming through. we have an absolute crisis. the criminals and gang members coming through. it is national security. it's a national emergency. >> melissa: the president also now pushing a steel barrier, not concrete. in an apparent concession to democrats. listen to this. >> they don't like concrete, so we will give them steel. steel is fine, it's actually

more expensive than concrete but it will look beautiful and it's very strong. it's actually stronger. >> melissa: it's beautiful. democrats like senator jeff berkley sang the material used is not the issue. >> it doesn't matter at all. putting up a 30-foot wall of whatever material it's made of, it doesn't make a difference. we know from the experts -- we know the cost-effective ways to provide border security. let's spend the citizens' money in a smart fashion, not with some fourth century basically pointless strategy. >> melissa: in the meantime, house minority whip steve schooley says democrats need to be willing to compromise. >> the president is showing he is willing to sit down and talk and try and reach an agreement. our teams have been meeting for the weekend to try and find some common ground. if they really want to work with us to get the government back open again, they have also get to recognize that border

security is at the heart of thi this. >> melissa: moments ago, sarah sanders treating that president trump will travel to the southern border on thursday to meet with those on the front lines of national security and the humanitarian crisis. more details will be announced soon. david, this has gone to be very petty place. it seems like the president has yielded a bunch. he is now saying that steel fence -- which is what we have been a lot of places -- >> david: the money has come up a little bit. >> melissa: not from the $25 billion. >> david: $5.7 billion instead of that. he's not going to be make a den daca like he seemed to be eight months ago. you are right, it is totally silly. people will look back and say .06% of the budget was being discussed. a border wall that everybody on the border, all those border patrol agents that we saw last week, where the president says it does help. i would rather believe them van

nancy pelosi, who compares it to a beaded curtain. which is kind of ridiculous. it is a silly debate. on the other hand, there are serious issues that are being discussed right now. when you think of the lives of the border patrol -- i just went through a list of the agents who lost their lives in the line of duty. there is a very long list of very brief people who stood the line, and those are the people who are now saying a wall -- whatever you want to call it -- as you said, steel, whatever it is. a physical barrier that prevents people from making the trip from central america, mexico, to our border. that makes a difference. i believe those people on the line. >> harris: a couple of things -- i wonder how different this conversation would be going down right now, may be without a shut down, had mexico been able to pay for any portion of this wall through a nafta agreement or whatever. here's the issue -- if that were the case, it would not be a ping-pong ball with democrats.

while they don't, capri, typically when on this issue, certainly the optics of this president going down to the border to assess a humanitarian crisis -- which, by the way, puts it in that bubble where he can say "by executive fiat, i'm going to fix this." that's how we got daca. we can go right back down that road again. it's not a winner for democrats. $25 billion is what melissa had suggested on the couch last week. that is the resources into a funnel, and however you want to disperse them according to the experts coming out. democrats and republicans missed that deal. >> capri: they did, in 2017. part of that is because a lot of republicans in the united states senate basically said we see this as basically giving into an amnesty program. it failed because her republicans didn't vote for it. that aside, democrats have some challenges here. as president trump has pointed out, time and time again, everyone from chuck schumer taylor clinton to barack obama has previously supported some kind of barrier and wall previo.

one thing we need to take a quick look at, which i notice when trump talked about democrats and steel versus concrete -- i come from steel country, as i like to remind folks. this may actually be a covert bargaining chip for democrats, to say "we want this to be made in america. we want a prevailing wage. we want them to build a wall." there is probably not enough members from that part of the country to carry the day. >> melissa: that's a great question. kennedy, if you drill down on some of those details -- you are saying there would be 234 miles of steel barrier. it works out to, someone gave -- i think it was on npr, they were saying is $24 million a mile. but if you're doing that, if it's a feeder into steel country, you have the lending

masts that have been chopped up and made into fence. people are cutting into those. that needs to be fixed. i don't know how you say this, that doesn't -- you aren't going to put the same thing there. what do you think? >> kennedy: i would like to see some cad drawings right now. [laughter] >> david: me, too. >> kennedy: its strangely specific. both sides are forcing this absurd destruction discussion. it's uncomfortable for both parties. democrats like to talk about immigration in a way that makes them sound very kind and humanitarian, but they know that a lot of their voters will say one thing but vote in another way entirely. it tends to be a very personal "nimby" issue, as we talked about on the couch. they have to figure out how to seal the holes in the upper part of an immigration policy. which is, you know, overstayed visas. and the way that narco terrorists get drugs into the

country, means that are completely illegitimate, like ports of entry. when republicans can figure that out, democrats can get back to talking about him immigration. we are not that far off but they don't want to come together. the closer they get to being simpatico, the more you hear about things like construction materials. >> capri: in the meantime, e-verify is on the rocks due to the shutdown, apparently. >> harris: there are some issues with e-verify, too. >> kennedy: the steel, and an american -- [laughter] makes it even more difficult. >> harris: if this benefits, it seems to me, the people on the fringes of both political parties. >> david: it does, but compromises on the other side of that. it's a people who -- >> harris: they aren't interested in compromise. >> david: at this point they are not, but i've got to tell you -- capri has hit upon something. i will be surprised if you get phone calls later in the day from democrats and republicans. one thing you suggested --

>> capri: we will take the jobs come on man! my neck of the woods is ready. >> david: one thing her idea plays into is one thing that we thought trump and democrats could compromise on, infrastructure. if this could be put in the realm of infrastructure -- >> melissa: that's a great idea. >> david: as opposed to the realm of border security -- >> harris: why is it that we can come up with ideas here among the five of us, yet all of those 500 plus in the -- >> melissa: let me tell you the answer, because they are busy tweeting stuff like this. this is senator chris van hollen, democrat from maryland. he says "send it democrats should block consideration of any bills unrelated to opening the government until senator mitch mcconnell and republicans allowed to vote on the bipartisan bills the house passed joe from the government. mitch, don't delay. let's vote!" in other words, david, they are playing games answering molotov cocktails or spitballs. wads of gum. >> david: doesn't all this

verify the public disdain for congress? the latest approval rating is under 10%. oh, it's 18? they are doing better than they had been. it's probably going to go down to single digits again. i know that their salaries are not the issue in terms of the budget deficit and everything, but for salaries alone, we should demand more of these people. because they are not interested in resolving it. they are just interested in scoring political points. >> harris: i would say, about the process of paying for it -- it does matter. people did vote based on the fact that it wasn't going to take american tax dollars to do this, although there is fund-raising beck is going on. crowd funding for the wall. clearly people are serious about this. if you get the number so small, like vice president pence a few weeks ago suggested $2.5 billion instead. if you get it so small that you can't do anything except for restore some of those forest areas rather than building fence line or flats or whatever, have you accomplished anything?

>> capri: my question, and my biggest concern -- i don't knowf you've done a remodel on your house, but when you run out of money, you can't live in a house half builds. you can't live without a roof. i'm going to shut down the government every time the president needs 5 billion more dollars for another stage of this? >> harris: it's not just the president. chuck schumer shut down the government a year ago. over sticky issues. daca. it's cap located. >> melissa: we didn't solve it, but, you know former vice president joe biden's apparently nearing a decision on whether you were one for president 2020. what he is reportedly saying about his potential democratic rivals, and what that suggests about his intention. plus, the freshman democrat who made a profanity-laced call for the president's impeachment not backing down despite cards from democrats and republicans alike. what she is saying now, and

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♪ >> harris: she is a freshman democrat, and now known for using an expletive in calling for the president's impeachment. now she is not backing down. in a new opinion piece, congresswoman rashida tlaib argues for an immediate move to impeach and takes issue with lawmakers who want to wait for the results of the special counsel investigation or the 2020 election. here is what she writes. "that was the time to begin impeachment proceedings against president trump. members of congress have a foreign duty to preserve our constitution, leaving a lawless president in office for political points would be aband" the top house democrats he defended. majority leaders called impeachment talk a distraction, and says that he and nancy pelosi are in full agreement on it. watch. >> we will have to stay with them mueller report says. nancy and i have both said that. we will him that we on the floor at the house of representatives. what we want to do is concentrate on our --

>> harris: the white house apparently not concerned. >> democrats want to keep their impeachment talk, where we know there is no pollution. we have been transparent and cooperative in the process. but that is a losing strategy for them. the american people want the democrats, their president, the republicans to work together to solve problems for our nation. that's what the president has focused on every day. >> harris: there are a couple lanes we can go down. let's stick with the impeachment lane for us, talk language later. on what grounds would democrats plan to impeach this president? we don't have the results of the mueller investigation yet. where is tlaib going? >> capri: you're looking at me like -- >> harris: you are the resident democrat! leadership in the state of ohio! >> capri: we have to remember that this is nothing new. brad sherman, even in the last congress, he put out articles of impeachment. there is all kinds of theory here, but i think that because nancy pelosi and steny hoyer

have the experience, they recognize that it's necessary not only from a pragmatic standpoint but a political standpoint as well to wait for the results of the mueller investigation to identify whether or not there is something tangible there to go down this road. impeachment is incredibly serious. we unfortunately have gone to a point, not only in my party but in the media and across the country, throwing around impeachment as if it's some kind of game. it's not. it is serious business. frankly, the everything people need to remember is that impeachment does not guarantee removal of the president either. everybody needs to -- >> harris: a political answer to what's going on. which is why i think, david, they don't want to necessarily wait for evidence because it may work against our cost potentially. we don't know. we don't know what robert mueller has. >> david: president trump gets a lot of flak for getting things wrong, but the impeach crowd in the democratic party get a fundamental thing wrong -- you don't convict somebody because you disagree with their politics. it's that simple. you have to wait for the process to play itself out. i think that a slick speaker

pelosi is doing, that's what steny hoyer is doing. i hate to use the old phrase, but the grown-ups in the party -- the people who are in there long enough to understand the process -- i don't think it's enough just to do that. i think they really need to gather together. they probably will, it's early on in this congress. to gather together these younger folks, these newbies, and say "hey, look at, folks -- you have to realize we have a system here." >> melissa: 's such as the newbies. here adam schiff talking about it, when you say -- he reveals that they want to remove him because they don't like him as president. that's not our system works. you don't just get to pull somebody up because you don't like them. folks are going to be really disappointed let down. i would hearken everybody back to chasing both of the clintons for so long with someone investigation, and getting people who hated them -- their hopes up. and then dashed. >> harris: it hurts republicans put glue. we heard what you called some of the grown-ups in the room.

kennedy, that's not necessarily what representative tlaib is talking about. she's not talking about that she just doesn't like it. she called him a bully. technically, i guess you can impeach over anything. >> kennedy: i think this therea pretty clear threshold the constitution. >> harris: there should be. >> kennedy: in that op-ed she was talking about the framers and their vision. >> david: she said he was lawless. >> kennedy: that he has an unequal view of the law, and the protection therein. then again, she is talking about acting before she has gotten all the information, which is irresponsible as a lawmaker. she is not just an operative. or a community organizer or someone else who is talking to people within her community. she is talking -- she is someone who can affect change and affect people's lives. she's out of the one of those avocado toast democrats. >> capri: i hit avocado toast! [laughter] >> kennedy: what she is trying

to do this -- >> harris: i'm allergic to avocado. >> melissa: it's terrible. >> kennedy: it's possible without doing any work. >> capri: that's where things like that clause, people look to that as -- "look, the trump hotel is there. maybe people from a government n government." >> kennedy: impeachment is incredibly serious. it's a difference between setting your dog to training versus euthanizing it. for some behavioral problems. >> david: and it can backfire. as we saw with president clinto president clinton. >> kennedy: they remember how it did backfire. be >> harris: before move on --i want to come back to you and democrats. at the end of the day, it comes down to what they want to a compass for american people. if pushing this president into a political corner through impeachment is their idea, is steny hoyer right? is it a complete destruction, does it serve any purpose?

>> capri: it doesn't. these democrats were elected because of things like the concern over health care, for example. at the end of the day we have to remember, in 2020, if the house democrats or impeachment process becomes a foil of president trump, it will backfire in middle america and you still need those electoral college votes to get there. so we have to be very careful. it's a distraction. >> kennedy: there was a bill to get rid of the electoral college. in the meantime, a federal judge has extended the federal grand jury that robert mueller post risk team has been using up to an additional six months. the chief federal judge in washington, d.c., granting the extension, signaling the probe will continue for several more months. the new house intel committee chair, adam schiff, says he wants to work with mueller to determine if any witnesses who testify before the panel have committed perjury. watch. >> we hope, as one of our first acts, to make the transcripts of our witnesses fully available to special counsel for any purpose, including the bringing of perjury charges if necessary

against any of the witnesses. there is no reason to protect these witnesses. there is every reason to validate congress' interest in not having people come before it and lied. >> kennedy: what is schiff going for here? what is his ultimate goal? >> david: i think his ultimate goal is to give mueller evidence that he thinks proves that the president did something wrong, but they could use to impeach. andy mccarthy made a broader point about what's going on here over the weekend, with our friend neil cavuto. he said it's the way this mueller investigation was set up that's wrong. most other, in fact, all others have been set up to validate a crime. this was set up to investigate something that was not a crime. there was not a specific crime. it's a counter-intelligence investigation, and those things can go on forever. that's what's happening. they are layering investigation on investigation, because there is not a specific crime they are aiming toward. there is this counterintelligence investigation which is so broad that it could never end.

>> kennedy: do think that's why democrats are saying "let's not wait for the mueller account of the entire investigation. instead, let's act." because the president is essentially untoward. and now schiff is trying to aid mueller, but canty get that testimony? >> melissa: first of all, congressman -- they came on the last hour and said they are willing to give everything over, that was always available. it seems to me as more of a bizarre talking point. "yes, you can have whatever we have. you can always have whatever we have." that's kind of where it was. he said they did. they have and they are always happy to turn over. eddie mccarthy's point is about -- because originally they were looking for collusion which come as we said, wasn't a crime. regardless, if that's what you're looking at. then they had to move it onto something else because that wasn't there. it's sort of an investigation and search of a crime, which could go on forever.

as long as they can't fight a crime, they can keep looking for one i keep fanning out. that's what makes it endless. maybe democrats are something that so they want to jump in. i think the ones that are saying let's wait and see what the investigation finds -- no, it's never going to end. it can keep going forever. >> kennedy: the bar is pretty low in terms of what people can be charged with, and that can be pinned to the tale of whoever the president is at the time. if the bar is lowered, does not mean that mueller is well within his purview to go after some of the people on the democratic side, including the dnc and the law firm that was paying dirty, filthy russians? >> capri: i have always said this -- the law needs to be applied consistently regardless of party. if there are potential wrongdoings with the dnc or -- >> kennedy: you think mueller is looking into that even though we haven't heard? >> capri: i have no idea. you never know, maybe that is the case. the mueller investigation seems

to be pretty tight as far as leaks are concerned. we usually don't know until things come out. maybe they are looking at that. i hope, again, if there are concerns, that they need to be equitably looked at. i think we also need to remember, too -- what adam schiff is saying, i think, is that if there are concerns about other people who testified in front of the intelligence committee, this is about who has perjured themselves potentially in front of the committee. which is a crime. that doesn't mean the president of the united states committed a crime, it means individual xyz you perjured themselves -- but then the question is, why did they lie? that's what they are trying to get. they are trying to bootstrap to who live, why did they lie, and that they covering up solving the present did? >> david: you also think of the trump organization -- before he can present, how far back milliken go is undetermined. we don't know how far back. a couple of these people, like michael cohen and everything. you're going to say in the whole history of the trump

organization that they haven't dealt with other -- that is fair game, i guess. he believes for his investigation to go into it. >> kennedy: isn't the goal to have a longer list on those ads in 2020, for whomever the democratic nominee is? along with the people who have been indicted? isn't that what schiff is trying to do, links and that list and the guilt by association? >> harris: you are asking me to look at the political realm. i want to look at the actual evidentiary realm. if you don't know what mueller has -- my goodness, we can probably say that 20 times a show, here -- but one thing you hit on, capri, that caught my ear as those three lanes you talked about for those investigations going. i'm still pressing to find out, would they ever consider letting this president sit down with mueller? and is that what mueller is waiting for? i was reading about legal extensions just over the weekend, which would take this far beyond march. now we are well into 2019 and

into june. politically speaking, adam schiff can look forward to that or not. legally, that means this has oxygen now for that much more time. >> kennedy: what an apparatus! white house national security advisor john bolton visiting allies in the middle east to discuss the plan to pull u.s. troops from syria. what he said, and some controversy around it. plus, former vice president go by than saying he's democrat. what a report says and whether he could be the right choice. we will debate next. ♪ day usa. a newday va home loan lets you refinance your home and take out 54,000 dollars or more to pay credit card debt, or just put money in the bank. it even lowers your payments by over 600 dollars a month. as a veteran, you've earned the powerful va home loan benefit that lets you refinance up to 100 percent of your home's value.

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this is a very difficult job. failure is not an option.a. more than half of employees across the country bring financial stress to work. if you're stressed out financially at home, you're going to be too worried to be able to do a good job. i want to be able to offer all of the benefits that keep them satisfied. it is the people that is really the only asset that you have. put your employees on a path to financial wellness with prudential. bring your challenges. ♪ >> melissa: former vice president joe biden is reportedly in the final stages of deciding whether to run for president. "the new york times" reports that mr. biden has told allies that he sees himself as the democrats' best hope of defeating president trump in

2020, and is skeptical about anyone else's chances. the times writes that anonymous democrats spoke to mr. biden and said he told them "if you could persuade me there is somebody better who could win, i am happy not to do it. but i don't see the candidate who could clearly do that. it has to be done -- could kobe do it has to be done to win." david asman, last year i watched him come out from a different studio. he was giving a speech and it sounded like he was going to change his mind in the middle. we could tell he wasn't running. then he switched to does she sound like he was going to say he was. i think he does -- >> david: that's what's very engaging about him. you never know what he's going to say next. i don't think he knows what he's going to say next! and his gaps are just wonderful. they give us a field day. there would be so much -- this is my favorite. he said "into thousand 12 i never had an interest being an

american because that's a real job you have to produce per that's why i was able to be a senator for 36 years." [laughter] >> melissa: that's true! >> david: capri and i were talking over the break that there are a lot of republicans who could vote for this guide. >> harris: why you do say that? >> david: he has appealed to the great middle. this is a guy who voted strong on criminal justice, he voted for the iraq war in 2002. >> david: he's an old school democrat. one that allowed people in the middle of the country still understand, that he can connect with. he does face a little bit of an uphill battle, because he has run for president in number of times since 1988. there's no question that he is and could of the experience. i think is really good at connecting with people. i think he's authentic, which is something that haley clinton obviously missed the mark on but a great stretch. i think it's going to be hard for him, because it will be a crowded field and i think -- in

the absence of superdelegates, which have been eliminated out of the democratic national, the established democrat is not goi. it's going to be hard for them. >> kennedy: i have some breaking news on the anonymous democrats. >> melissa: i have no doubt. when you heard david describing them, and you heard the thinks capri said, he is very trumpian. when you talk about somebody who can appeal to the middle. the same kind of clout, the gasps. >> kennedy: the debate is very entertaining, if nothing else. two people who like to change on the fly. they're not worried about offending people. i want to put the idea about his age to bed a little bit. if someone expresses energy and creativity and enthusiasm, i don't care what the number is. if someone really has the

tenacity to protect the country in the way that is necessary, especially from democrats who tend to be strangely hawkish out sometimes and very inconsistent on foreign policy, joe biden has been accused of that, but you would much rather see somebody like that who actually has experience. i think of beto o'rourke, being woken up in the middle of the night with an emergency in regards to north korea. or syria, or turkey. what the hell is he going to do and say? i think there are people like kim jong un who are just waiting so excitedly like beto o'rourke, because they know -- it would be more than another person to push around. >> harris: one thing that has been talked about is maybe by then-beto. >> capri: i think shared brown beto o'rourke. >> david: i like biden-cafaro. [laughter] >> harris: she would never be on the bottom of that ticket! he could not be elected against ted cruz.

>> capri: that's right. just because he came close and a red state doesn't mean it will carry the day. >> melissa: a mid fall out over president trump's decision to withdraw troops from syria, a top white house official is laying out conditions that must be met before our troops come home. doesn't signal a potential shift in strategy? we will debate that. >> we are pulling back in syria. we are going to be removing our troops. i never said we are doing it that quickly, but we are decimating isis. ♪

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♪ >> we are going to be discussing the president's decision to withdraw. to do so, four northeast syria, to make sure isis is defeated and is not able to revive itself and become a threat again. and to make sure that the

defense of israel and our other friends in the region is absolutely assured. and to make sure those who have fought with us against isis and other terrorist groups. >> harris: white house national security advisor john bolton there, he was in jerusalem yesterday laying out conditions for the troop withdrawal from syria. president trump has recently announced that, including the defeat of the remnants of isis. turkey assuring the safety of kurdish fighters who are u.s. allies but whom the turks see as links to terrorists in their country. this is a u.s. official telling fox news that bolton is intricate to talk syria with officials there. the pullout has drawn criticism from some lawmakers encouraging republican mac thornberry of the house armed services committee. watch. >> yes, i think it was a mistake. it worried our allies. it encouraged our enemies. i think the administration now is trying to backtrack from a

blanket withdrawal, and trying to mitigate the sum of the adverse consequences. >> harris: wow. "the new york times" reporting that bolton has been working behind the scenes to so that withdrawal. president trump has pushed back in the street. "the feeling "new york times" has knowingly written a very inaccurate story on my intentions in syria. no different from my initial statements, we are leaving at a proper pace while at the same time consuming to fight isis and doing all else that is prudent and necessary." i want to delve into that a little bit. the president said we had defeated isis there. i have two questions. one, two british soldiers died just over the weekend, killed by isis. they aren't defeated, obviously. then you have bolton saying that when we defeat them these are going to be the conditions of us moving out. that's one of them. clearly, either the president was wrong about that or what? a >> david: i'm glad that john bolton is there, first of all. he clearly has differing views than the president does.

>> harris: what are the facts? have we defeated them or not? >> david: we have not completely defeated them. the one that matters. should we be leaving? >> david: it does. but we have deprived them of their home bases which, as general kelley and other people a lot smarter on these issues then we will tell you, it's key to defeating an organization like isis. i should also mention that the general would criticize the president about stress early remarks, and say that we do need to keep special forces there. i know that -- look, the united states has a nasty habit. we have seen it over decades. supporting a group that fights for us, and just as we think that group has succeeded, they are surrounded by their enemies and destroyed. and we pull out. >> capri: are you talking about the tele- band and afghanistan? >> kennedy: and north vietnam, exactly. >> david: i don't want to see repeated. no matter what we think about john bolton, the kurds right now are thinking god that he's life. >> kennedy: and there's a

difference between john bolton mike pompeo. i think you are seeing good cop/bad cop in terms of our former policy and national security. in the way these to deliver the president's message. i also think that john bolton has gotten pretty good at convincing the president of his worldview. there are some liberty-minded people who might take issue with that, but the point is that john bolton is very clear on how he sees the lines in the world. he doesn't want to see somebody like president air to affecting our policy by any measure. >> harris: i want to ask you about what mac thornberry said about the backtrack at this point. is that what's going on? >> melissa: i don't see it that way as much as expressing an opinion, wanting to follow policy. maybe folks follow up with him afterwards. >> harris: but he didn't say it's based on opinion. >> melissa: is not that they are defeated or not to defeated, is this idea they have to say present and ready to intervene if the problem comes back. if you stay present in an area

to make sure the outcome that has been achieved through so many lives continues to stay in place. >> harris: why do we seem to think that the islamic state savages that have ravaged 14 countries plus would not come back to syria? who would think that? they are scorpions. >> david: not only that, but there is significant information as some cai guys have told me that in fact turkey was involved in buying isis oil. remember when they had oilfield oilfields? arity 1 his son was in the oil business. there are rumors. >> capri: protecting them when they are saying the kurds are terrorists. >> harris: and they got our journalist, because shoji, when he was on their soil. these are questions that i have because i honestly think that, at this point, there is an opportunity with the door

opening considering other options. remember, week or so ago, we talked about people leaving administration because they were upset. >> capri: turkey is a nato member nation. >> they don't belong there. >> david: the president is open to discussion. that's clear. john bolton would not be -- >> harris: it might be an opportunity. >> david: it is an opportunity. >> harris: you know what else is opportunistic today? investors on the dow. i'm trying to use some of that fb and language. the dow is up right now amid renewed trade talks between united states and china today, and beijing. whether the sides can come to an agreement, which could be a victory for the the american w. we will chat it up next. >> i spoke to president xi recently, i believe they want to make a deal. the tariffs that absolutely hurt china very badly. ♪ if you have psoriasis,

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with who we are as people and making everybody feel welcome. ordering custom ink t-shirts has been a really smart decision for our business. i love the custom ink design lab because it's really easy to use. they have customer service that you can reach anytime. t-shirts help us immediately get a sense of who we are as a group. from the moment clients walk in, they're able to feel like part of the family. - [spokesman] custom ink has hundreds of products for your business and free shipping. upload your logo or start your design today >> melissa: more "outnumbered" and just a moment, but we are going to catch up with harris and see what's coming up on "outnumbered overtime" in a few minutes. >> harris: here's what i'm working on in the next hour. the partial government shutdown has entered its new week with no end in sight, as we know. where it is the negotiation stand? assure the president make a good-faith effort on his threat

to declare a state of emergency at the border to get his wall built? will the standoff rally his base, or could it backfire? a republican of the house financial services committee will be on deck with me. plus, two new democratic committee chair is about to ramp up investigations of president trump and his allies. is it just the beginning? judge andrew napolitano on more, and we had some breaking to velvets from his attorney. the president's, really giuliana, about people work in the investigation with the mueller probe. we'll talk about that now. top of their work, melissa. >> melissa: that was a good tease, thanks, harris. >> kennedy: love it. let's take a look at the dow. big board, check it out. nice numbers, up 188 right now. just over 23.6. meanwhile, the u.s. and china making a new round of trade talks today and beijing. their first face-to-face meeting since president trump and chinese president xi jinping agreed to a 90 day truce in their trade war of the summit

last month in argentina pray the president sounded confident outside the white house yesterday. watch. >> the china talks are going very well. i spoke to president xi recently. i really believe they want to make a deal, the tariffs have absolutely hurt china very badly. i think it gives them a great incentive to negotiation. >> kennedy: let me ask you that, david asman. does it give them an incentive? we heard apple talk about softening sales and we know the economy has been going south and china. what does that do for the president's position? >> david: it strengthens it enormously pray there is article after article about how every, by any measure, china's economy slowing down. it may be negative. the chinese statistics of the kind you would expect from a communist government. they are completely manipulated. you can't trust them. what you can trust, when their companies say they are people that are not buying what they used to buy, people are storing

their cash. they are -- it's a great worry about president xi, made a big political power grab. there are a lot of people who are looking at him and saying "look, unless you can fix the economy, we will give you free reign to take as much power for your whole life as he thought he might be able to take. if the economy is not doing well." he has a political as well as economic incentive for getting a deal. >> melissa: people are saying there is a real fundamental shift happening here. david, i'm sure you've heard this, with company stock about their "china plus one" options. it has already been -- already, it's got more expensive. and the trade-off wasn't as good as it was before. now, after all this, would people have companies being forced to make other plans, the question is do they go back? there are plenty of places where there is a lot of cheap labor. in the long run, the rest of the world recovers. but i wonder if china is seeing how much damage can be permanen

permanent. >> kennedy: they can't bring down the global economy though. they are downturned right now. >> capri: it such a huge volume, you are dealing with billions of people. they are huge consumer as well is a huge producer. if the chinese economy goes down, it could bring others with it. i think you bring up a very good point, though, that if it's not advantageous for multinational corporations to invest and make products there, to create jobs in china, that's going to have a detrimental impact. >> david: something quick about what's happening the markets -- a lot of people are afraid, they asked me if they should sell the stocks. don't do it! don't do it now. there's nothing on the horizon now that is any worse than anything we haven't already encountered. we managed our way through. i'm thinking into this innate in 2009, as terrible as it was, we manage through. people kept their money in the market and they are happy they did. >> kennedy: you've got a couple months left on the stride were, then he dated to say. will they figure out? >> there's a meeting in switzerland, the president is going into beaks.

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ito address my fellow veterans, because i know so many of you have served our country honorably. one of the benefits that we as a country give you as a veteran is the eligibility for a va loan for up to 100% of your home's value. if you need cash for your family, call newday usa. with automatic authority from the va, we can say yes when banks say no. give us a call. call now: 1-855-376-1361. >> melissa: think you to my good friend, david asman. we will be hearing about impingement for the next two years. what you think the president fix of that? >> david: i think it's "bring it on." we have seen from this president, like no other president in my lifetime, he

appreciates attacks and turns them around on his enemies quickly. he seems to be fine with these attacks. >> melissa: to fire up his base, to work on other things. >> david: and to use that as a subterfuge for getting things done. >> melissa: we are back at noon eastern tomorrow. here's harris. >> harris: fox news alert, well into the government shutdown at this point. day 17 pray the white house and sing the president will head to the southern border later this week, and that he has made it ct it's a national emergency to build the border wall. let's go to "outnumbered overtime" now. i'm harris faulkner. the partial government shutdown heading into its third week. the republicans and democrats fighting over border security. admits region officials and staffers met over the weekend but failed to make progress. the white house announced that president will go to the southern border on thursday to meet with those in the front lines of what they say is a national secured a crisis. meanwhile, the president's warning he did take matters into