>> sandra: the president will make his case. go ahead. >> bill: did you take alabama or clemson? >> sandra: [laughs] never alabama, come on, now! thank you for joining us on "america's newsroom." we will see her tomorrow. "outnumbered" starts now. >> harris: fox news alert, we begin with new questions out of a big moment for the term presidency. the commander in chief is getting set to address the nation tonight from the oval office for the first time. at issue, and the alleged crisis on the southern border stalled talks in washington, d.c., and a partial government shutdown now in its third week. you are watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. fox news contributor lisa boothe, host of "kennedy" on the fox business network, kennedy, and in the center seat, former utah congressmen and fox news contributor jason chaffetz is here. all days are important in the news, but this one has a special twist with the president and prime time. >> jason: you all don't always get the president in the

oval office. the networks are trying to figure whether or not they want to cover it, who should be on, how they will do fact-checking. for the president has a great opportunity. it's an important moment. >> harris: and the nation has an opportunity to hear what his plans are with regard to the shutdown, too. let's get to the news. the president's address comes with the partial shutdown, the second longest in u.s. history now. the big question hangover tonight's speech -- will the president declare a national emergency, allowing him to build a border wall without congressional approval? on thursday the president will travel to the southern border to meet with officials they are. a law enforcement source telling fox news the location of that visit will be mcallen, texas. vice president mike pence today says "our country is dealing with a bona fide emergency at the border. the president will tackle it head on tonight." watch. >> the passion you hear from president trump, his determination to take this case to the american people, as he wields a in his national broadcast from the oval office,

it comes from this president's deep desire to do his job to protect the american people. we are going to continue to carry that case forward until the democrats in congress come to the table and start negotiating. not just to end the government shutdown, but to address what is an undeniable crisis at our southern border. >> harris: but some democrats, including senator chris coons, are stepping up warning us against the president declaring a national emergency over the border. watch. >> if the president tries to reach out and extend his executive power and tried to get our military to build a border while declaring this a national security emergency, i think you will face a significant and likely successful challenge in court. >> harris: you set us up a little bit off the tippy top, congressman, about where exactly we are in the conversation. how the networks handle things, fact-checking. >> jason: yeah, they have never treated a president like this. the idea that they would slow down the feed so they can do

real-time fact-checking. you have the incoming chairman of the house judiciary committee, jerry nadler, saying he anticipates the president is going to flat out lied. again, i think they are overplaying their hand. love the president go out there. he needs to not be political, he just needs to state the facts and talk about the human toll and human cost and human trafficking that's going on. the drugs coming across the border -- i think if he stays on that script, looks everybody in the eye from the oval office, he will be highly successful. >> harris: you drill down to what he would say, according to you, that will be helpful. we will get to the other matter. i just want to touch on it with you. kennedy, what does the present need to do tonight just in terms of shoring up the public view that he is in control of this government shutdown he said he would take the responsibility for? >> kennedy: you need to do a couple things. when it comes to the border and what he sees is most problematic, he really needs to lay out facts. he is talking to an audience -- and we were talking about this

before the show started -- who is not always politically engaged and not reading every headline and every story. for people out there who are normally watching primetime sitcoms and other programs, they need to know what is happening and how it affects them. he also needs to demonstrate that he does care a lot about the federal workers who aren't getting paychecks right now, and also show how he plans to bring that to a terminus. because he is meeting with the kind of resistance right now, and nonnegotiation with democrats, that is making that very, very difficult. he needs to do two things -- a very logical, data-driven expo nation of what the crisis is on the border and how he sees it, but also something more emotional and empathetic in terms of the workers who are -- >> melissa: that to key point you made, the idea that it's a different audience than is normally talking about this issue. for folks watching at home right now, they are not necessarily people they are going to be talking to tonight. he is trying to reach out to folks who may not couldn't be

completely decided this issue. he sang it's not racist, it's not about putting a wall up, it's about establishing a border, having security, and laying the foundation for the country. >> harris: its interest income of the timing of this. the next round of paychecks that will be -- if we don't figure this out. by some estimations, it's too late already to get those thursday or friday checks out at this point. the issue now is the shutdown. with regard to it -- melissa is saying about the border at and l of that, it might have been better to do the speech after. but the time will allow for that. >> lisa: i think this is a pivotal time for him to speak to americans. often, americans only get one side of the story from the mainstream media. they often do the sad stories of migrants, why they are trying to come to the united states, and the other side is the illegality of it and the problem that arises with that. that story is not told. i think president trump has done a good job changing the dynamic

of the way illegal immigration is discussed read he did this since the inception of his campaign, in which he made illegal immigration and issue. he also did a pilot industry's of it when he was at the state of the union and told the story of the two young girls killed at the hands of ms-13, and most recently we have the person who died at the hands of an illegal immigrant in california. telling those stories is important, as well. change you made a mix of that, as there is also this other sidl immigration that's not so good. aside that we don't want here in the united states. >> harris: do you think the president would look at that executive order in terms of what he sees at the border this week, and that emergency, as something that would be long-lasting? or do you think that what the democrats are asking is to pass these six preparations bills and we can take time to get to the $5.7 billion for the wall? do you think they will get back to that? >> no, congress always does the kind of things. >> harris: so it's almost as

permanent as the daca that obama put in place? >> jason: the time it will take to go through the legal system, i think the president has broad viability here. remember, president obama, in his final year of his administration, spent in appropriations more than $300 billion that was not authorized by congress. so there is some precedent out there. >> harris: that is with regard to operations in the field of -- >> jason: all across the board. most apartment's and agencies actually spend money that was not authorized by congress, but was appropriated. so, can you change the appropriation and shift money between accounts? you can do that. it happens all the time. that's why you had adam smith, the incoming chairman of the house -- the pentagon, essentially, the military side of the equation -- saying that he can do this. >> melissa: what you think is the president's best option right now? >> jason: i don't think he should pull the trigger yet. i thickets out there, there should be a good national discussion, but this is the

opportunity to speak to millions of american, and i'm glad the networks are going to allow the democrats to come out there -- they should. let them make their case on why they think the border wall is immoral. why they have already built 600 miles of it, but the 601st mile is really something we should never, ever do. let them make that case. >> harris: twice as much as the 234 the president is looking to build next. so you're going to tear the rest down? if you are politically opposed to a wall, do you take on the rest, too? >> jason: that the absurdity of it. >> melissa: here we go. meantime, lots of attention from some of the president's critics in the media when it comes to tonight's primetime address. something the president doesn't deserve, a primetime slot. also suggesting that networks should fact-check in real time his speech. here senior analyst and former white house press secretary, joe lockhart. >> if i were an executive, which i am not come i wouldn't put

this on life. i would have them do the address, look at her and find out what's true and what's not, or say "give me the text in advance." you have a president trying to create hysteria for his own political purposes, not to protect the murky people. >> melissa: some critics also pointing to a 2014 address by president obama on immigration. the broadcast networks did not carry it because reportedly felt it was overtly political and fell during the november sweeps. probably that one. the administration did not officially request the time, it just floated there deeded to executors. mean time, nancy posey and chuck schumer in the statement saying they need to combat what they predict will be a speech by trump full of "malice and misinformation." as he mentioned, they are now slated to deliver a joint which will reportedly be carried by all the major networks. i think what's interesting about this -- the last time there was, i think, a rebuttal to the president in prime time was when

president obama came out and made his pitch on health care. to which, at the time, i was one of the people who said he was lying. although we didn't use that word at the time because we were more polite. when he said "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, premiums will go down for each family by $1250 per family per year, this is going to drive down costs," which come at the time, if you can do math you know it was a lie. he said that in order to sell it. the other side came on and rebutted that. i wonder if they considered at that time fact-checking him. >> lisa: they probably didn't. it just demonstrates the fact that this president is treated differently than previous presidents. we also see that just in in the statistics, the negative media coverage toward president trump versus president obama. you are right, president obama did lie to us repeatedly regarding obamacare. let the democrats respond. how is it any different than nbc or msnbc, or cnn a prosperous coverage of the president every single night anyways? it's literally no different.

i think democrats are a little worried about what president trump is going to say tonight. we should really focus on in addition to the illegality is also the fairness aspect of it as well. people are trying to break the law, cut the line. it's unfair. i think the majority of americans believe in the rule of law, and basic fairness. i think president trump should talk about how the rule of law is being repeatedly railroaded by people who are trying to come here illegally. >> melissa: it's important not to conflate immigration and illegal immigration. because that's what a lot on the left and the mainstream media are doing, saying that folks who want a wall are against all immigrants. it's not the case. >> kennedy: we are also conflate a good and bad. people who come here with good intentions, and people who want to come here to hurt us industry our freedom. we can't have that second half in the country. there is no one with rational bones in their body who would disagree with that statement. i think what's interesting here is the amount of power that is concentrated in the executive

branch. that's not the fault of president trump. there are a lot of congressional democrats who are to blame for that, because when it was there office, they had no problem with the executive orders. and there were no problem with republicans going through the court system. it's not just a conflation between illegal immigration and immigration, it's also immigration versus border security. congress is not taking care of its part, which is immigration. i'm not hammering on that point. i'm not hearing chuck schumer and nancy pelosi talk about the legislation of alternatives and the road map they have to fix the immigration system. part of the reason it's a national security crisis is because people don't know exactly what's happening. if you remember come aboard apprehensions went way down when the president was inaugurated. that's because people who were coming up from central america and latin america, they assumed that the border was close. then they heard that catch and release was back on. then they feared we were such hardliners they would be able to get to the country at all, and

that's what you have this. >> harris: part of what candidate he is saying is so true when it comes the democrats really laying out the alternatives. i will tell you why. if there point is "we will pass the six a preparations bills and get 90% of the government up and running," as democrats were saying -- if they do that on the hill and republicans in the senate go along with this and it's all peachy keen, they promised to go back and revisit the president's wall and the money spent. at least that's out there. we don't know what it all really looks like if we don't know what the alternatives are. i would say this, with regard to tonight's speech -- and you talk about ben rhodes back in the day with obama, knowing who the friendly media way. they didn't actually have to make a pitch to get on the networks. they were shocked when some of them didn't. only univision did, in the speech you are mentioning on health care. it was immigration, 2014. they were shocked when that didn't happen. it's a little distant disingeno

compare that to today, because it was kind of already in the works at the networks. they didn't. but that was how it was. the other thing, too, is we will sometimes get embargoed remarks from presidents and senators. but we don't normally seek those, so we can fact-check them real-time because it's our job to do anyway. >> jason: and it takes time to do with the right way. >> harris: exactly. >> jason: a fascinating part of this -- , i'm proud that thee out there broadcasting as they should. i think it's good that they will put up nancy pelosi and chuck schumer. but they have a challenge to try and define -- because they haven't yet -- what is security? if it's not a border fence, if it's opposite of what the border patrol is telling us they want, what are they going to offer? to say "we are going to do drones," but when you listen to the actual border patrol agents who say "we apprehended 60,000 people in november and we are going to have to deal with on that trajectory nearly 750,000

people, and by the way, we only catch one out of every two people who comes across," there is a crisis there. okay, nancy pelosi and chuck schumer -- try to explain to us how you would you security if you won't do with the border patrol is telling us they need to have done. >> harris: joe they also have to look at this idea that the white house has talked about, with the danger of terrorists coming across the board? we don't have the same protections on our northern border, and we know that the terrorists are coming across that. >> melissa: they make fun of that part. they say that's not a real crisis. the president is making that up, across a seven border. that's the argument. >> jason: but there is no entry/exit program. we don't know who is coming in and out of this country. >> melissa: there we go. new signs that the 2020 field of democratic presidential candidates is taking shape. two more potential contenders indicating they may jump in. we will tell you what former congressman beto o'rourke and senator kamala harris are doing now. and how it is putting pressure on everyone else.

plus, the president's top foreign policy advisors are overseas talking to allies about u.s. plans to withdraw troops in syria. ahead, the latest u.s. plans for the region and how they impact the fight against isis. ♪ family? newday usa can help. we earned a lot of va benefits with our service. but the va home loan benefit is a big one. if you want to use it to get cash, call newday usa. va loans are all they do. and don't let less than perfect credit hold you back. even if you've been turned down for a va loan by your bank, call newday usa. they've been given automatic authority by the va... they can often help veterans when other lenders won't. by re-financing up to 100 percent of your home's value, you could take out 54,000 dollars or more. you could use that money to pay credit card debt and other expenses, plan for retirement, and get back on your feet financially. need money for your family?

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♪ >> harris: a diplomatic dustup in turkey as our national security advisor, john bolton, is wrapping up his high-stakes visit. both then went to turkey seeking assurances that the turkish government will not attack the kurds, who are u.s. allies, as the u.s. plans to withdraw troops from syria. the kurdish forces were central to the war on the islamic state in syria. but the turkish government views them as terrorists. there seems to be no sign of a deal now, with the turkish president erdogan refusing to even meet with john bolton. and criticizing the emerging plan that bolton discussed on a recent trip to israel. watch. >> it's not possible for us to accept, to solve a message. john bolton gave from israel. john bolton has made a very serious mistake. whoever thinks this way is also mistaken. we cannot make any concessions in this regard, and those involved in the chair corridor

in syria will receive the necessary punishment. >> harris: meanwhile, secretary of state mike pompeo landed in jordan for middle east who are looking to reassure allies the u.s. will remain in the region. here is secretary pompeo speaking with reporters and jordan, using the arabic name for isis. >> the most significant threat to the region is -- , and the islamic resolution. the revolutionary efforts in the region. the decision to withdraw, the folks from syria, in no way impacts our ability to do that. >> harris: this speaks to the issue of how dicey that situation is on the ground in syria, when you want to pull out. i didn't hear mention of the name iran. that's some of why we are doing what we are doing. >> jason: there are russia components that are part of this. but we do have the capability to deliver lethal force on a moment's notice from our presence throughout the region. i think the message that mike pompeo is delivering is an important one.

i don't mind them going head-to-head with president erdogan and making sure that they understand, if you go after the kurds, that's of great interest to us. we owe them a lot. the kurds have been there, they are very helpful to the united states throughout the years. but it's a dicey situation with tight neighbors and a lot of our firepower right on top of each other. >> harris: can i follow up on the firepower? we have an air base, we have a need to have more than just a typical nato relationship with them. >> jason: it goes back to this conversation that the president had one on one with president erdogan, where there was obviously some dramatic commitments there and changes that happened. our military still has a strong capability in order to act, and not have our presence on the ground there in syria. i applaud the president. i think it's the right move. i think he is moving in the right direction and afghanistan, as well. >> harris: lisa, how important do you think it is that the

president has -- he says he has not slowed down the timetable, but is consistent with what he said all along that he would do in a proper manner. but clearly backed off "we are leaving." >> lisa: it does seem like there has kind of been taking a step back for the president, re-examination. not saying that is not going to withdraw from syria -- it looks like that's still absolutely moving forward -- but i think it's important to relate to congress, especially in the senate and the senate of foreign relations committee, senator reid lindsey graham -- try to get that with the next steps are. i think it's a board to have some level of buy-in or at least not to be up against the senate foreign relations committee repeatedly this congress. to at least have them feeling a little bit more like president trump has thought this through. and that there is a pan in plac place. >> harris: do you think mattis might have said -- if you put it this way, candy? >> kennedy: i think there would have been a little bit more of a measured strategy. and then the plan that

john bolton laid out in israel, the thing i really like about this discussion is more and more people are talking about ways we can extricate ourselves from the middle east. which means in the future, hopefully, this will inform discussions about a president ever wanting to go back in there. because these are the types of things you have to think about before you commit american troops and resources to the middle east. how hard it is getting out, and the consequences of rapid or slow pull out you have to have a much more careful and thoughtful withdrawal. because the consequent is, as we know and have seen throughout the region, with the vacuum that has been created by civil war or occupation or whatever the case. >> harris: the backdrop of terrorism is always there. >> kennedy: whatever was there in the beginning, it's like putting miracle grow on it. >> harris: melissa, kennedy is talking about the beginnings of things. we never talked much about the end game. i had on representative yoho yesterday, who sits on the house foreign affairs.

he said "you know, we didn't really make clear what our mission was in syria. we still haven't made clear what our mission is in syria. it may be involving isis now, but isis's and 34 countries now." the beginning is so important. we don't think about what the ending point is sometimes. >> melissa: i disagree on kennedy on both points, whichever happens. i think he should have kept both generous. there are people he brought into the beauty that he thought he agreed with, and he realized over time that they were looking at a traditional way of looking at things and he, like every thing else, thinks outside the box. so i think that his reasoning on all this stuff is more unconventional than theirs was, so that wasn't going to be a long-term relationship. >> kennedy: i understand, but -- very quickly, because i know you want to move on with your next point -- i think this was a last straw for general mattis. >> melissa: that's fair. >> kennedy: he may have been on his way out the door and didn't have plans for a long-term commitment. >> melissa: but this was it. but that relationship would have

ended relatively soon. >> kennedy: he's getting a signal from turkey and acting based on a phone conversation -- i think that's too much. >> harris: right around that same time. be true as far as leaving, there is a difference between getting out and not being there. this idea of being there and prepared to act, that doesn't mean the same thing as being there right now. where we are sort of on the ground and providing all the support, and there is a lot of people there. but you are still in the region if you are ready and willing to respond at a moment's notice. >> kennedy: what about afghanistan? what is the end game and afghanistan? >> melissa: to respond at any moment -- >> lisa: is a great point, what was our goal to begin with? this was the longest war. >> harris: no. that's not why we went there. >> lisa: to get rid of isis. >> melissa: you don't think that was our goal in syria? to get rid of isis? >> harris: there were humanitarian concerns. i'm only repeating whatever leadership on the hill has told

me, and that gold was not made clear with syria. there were a bunch of different reasons. we lost american u.s. personnel because iran has been killing our people on the ground. we knew that there was almost a proxy situation going on on the ground. her member, we were in the air -- they were a lot of reasons. isis was on the list but they were not the primary. i want to give you the last word on that. >> jason: when i was in congress, we were giving president obama a hard time because we were saying "who are our allies? how do you vet them?" there are a lot of bad characters and it's a tough region. it's hard to come to a final solution. but if you don't define success, you will never get there. we haven't done that in these areas. we went to the point of isis, we still haven't defeated them. we just captured americans who are trying to join the parade you can't do and what isn't there. moving on, some republican lawmakers demanding a status check on the investigation into allegations of surveillance abuse of the obama doj during the 2016 campaign. whether they are giving any answers. as a present get set to deliver

his address on the border crisis tonight, still no no and insign funding the wall. democrats reportedly looking to shut down votes on other legislation until the government is funded. the winners, the louvers losert all plays out. to look at me now, you don't see psoriasis. you see clear skin. you see me. but if you saw me before cosentyx... ♪ i was covered. it was awful. but i didn't give up. i kept fighting. i got clear skin with cosentyx. 3 years and counting. clear skin can last. see if cosentyx could make a difference for you. cosentyx is proven to help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis find clear skin that can last. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting cosentyx, you should be checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections

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the american people also deserve to know, on the very first day of this partial government shutdown, the president sent me to capitol hill to make a good-faith offer that would have avoided the shutdown altogether. we are three weeks and, and tonight the american people -- the president will take his case directly to the american people. >> melissa: meantime, democratic senator joe manchin suggesting that president trump could get a wall if he agreed to an immigration reform bill similar to the one that lawmakers pushed back in 2013. watch this. >> i want to get out of this shut down. voted for border security. i would be very helpful and very glad if the president would look at the 2013 immigration reform bill. because everything i believe he wants done protects our borders, gets rid of the bad people who came for the wrong reason, keeps them out because we secure the border, and the people who came here for the right reasons but the wrong way, it gives them a

pathway forward. if we have to negotiate, that the art of the deal. >> melissa: jason, i was very interested in whether this was a real option. i had to go back and remember what was in that bill pay that's what joe manchin is talking about. it was a 13 year path to citizenship for millions of undone on documented immigrants who were he already. benchmarks before they could get a green card. it would increase security along the border, requires that e-verify, workplace verificatio verification. there are also visas, worker visas for less-skilled workers, that addresses the agricultural piece. what was wrong with this? >> jason: first of all, i think joe manchin is an honest broker. i think he wants an honest solution. i hear but he is saying, he is willing to build the ball. there is not something immoral about it. he just wants to trade for something. >> melissa: what's wrong with this? if you brought that back out? >> jason: in one word, its amnesty. there's a lot you like it there as conservatives. i won't get everything i want,

but it does provide some perverse incentives to come here illegally. and we need to stop those incentives to come here illegally. you can't reward millions of people. remember, this is above and beyond the daca people that the president has said "we are willing to do with that." but offer others here illegally essentially amnesty is a nonstarter for republicans. >> harris: if you will remember, it's the republicans who block the president on that the first time. they had the 4-pronged look, labrador and mix alley, they looked at what the presents that he wanted. he was willing to give, as you said, willing to give them what looked like amnesty. republicans lost it. >> lisa: to kennedy's point earlier, our policies are a correlation to what we see the southern border. in terms of incentivizing people to come here illegally. we have to be careful with our legislation and ultimately what could happen as a result of it. i think it's a dull mic and a port and key component.

for a legislative standpoint, they are actually being very smart. what they did with just voting on dhs funding, separating the other department's that need to be funded, is also smart. with a are trying to do is wrap up the political pressure on republicans who have the majority in the house and the white house to get something do. to ramp up that public pressure. inputs republicans and difficult spot that they need 60 votes in the senate to try and do the same, and put that pressure on the house. they only have 53 republicans in the senate. i think that a sort of a comp locating factor for republicans, in trying to increase pressure on democrats. >> melissa: but it's all a conversation of "no." that's what's so frustrating, what they all won't do. that's frustrating. that's what the american people's hearing. tonight, with the prime time address, you have a chance to see -- that's what's appealing about what joe manchin said. usually what makes it so appealing is that he's saying "here is an option. what about this option?" speed when the president isn't saying no, he's got ideas.

>> kennedy: last week and the week before, we talked about where are the bipartisan actors in congress. to work together to actually get a deal done. i think joe manchin is offering something i don't think -- it didn't pass in 2013. it's a complete different climate. i don't think you could have a carbon copy of that and assume -- >> harris: but it could work? >> kennedy: i think he's onto something. we've been very curious, why aren't you hearing more about daca? or more about a trade of the dreamers for border wall fundin funding? i think it's going to go and a larger immigration picture. i don't think you are going to be able to come pass conferencef immigration reform. if the take the aspects that are most important to both sides. you're going to have to split it up in order to get anything past it. >> harris: where you start? >> melissa: where does gas come from? i will give you first crack. what is something that can be done right now? i'm so sick of hearing what won't work.

what word work? >> jason: i listed out, i think there are seven things that democrats have previously committed to, that they say they are in favor of. you could plus up the number of border control agents, the number of i.c.e. agents. give this people a raise. >> harris: some of them on the far right want to abolish ice. >> jason: i'm saying, these are things they have previously supported. joe manchin is willing to go to the wall and help build the wall. let's take them up on that. >> harris: democrats previously agreed to $1.6 billion, too. i wonder -- >> lisa: $25 billion at one one point. >> harris: they are saying no to everything. to melissa's point, it's a big fat n-o. >> jason: i know i'm a republican and i have been supportive to the present, but he has gone out of his way on almost the day the daily basism to negotiate. they have said no to everything, they've been off in hawaii. >> melissa: is very frustrating. we need to start with "what will you do?" on both sides. >> lisa: what do they do in their quest to mark ethically

should send melissa. >> melissa: i'm in charge. [laughter] republicans in the house are now in the minority, but they are not taking a backseat when it comes to an us occasions. the new letter sent to the u.s. attorney who is looking into the actions of the obama justice department and what it all has to do with hillary clinton. ♪ i thought i married an italian. my lineage was the vecchios and zuccolis. through ancestry, through dna i found out that i was only 16% italian. he was 34% eastern european.

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♪ >> kennedy: welcome back. top house republicans are demanding answers from the federal prosecutor examining claims of surveillance abuse at the fbi and doj. the prosecutor has spent some nine months looking into allegations that the fbi abused its power in surveying former trump campaign advisor carter page, and that it should have done more to investigate the clinton foundation. members of the house oversight committees, including jim jordan, said "during the course of our investigation we have interviewed or than a dozen

personnel, current and former, and we are surprised to hear that none of these testify to speaking with you." the lawmakers also want to know if he has spoken to any of the key witnesses they interviewed, like bruce ohr and peter strzok. what do you know about this, mr. oversight? >> jason: and it was very oversight and that frustrating that when you think you're looking at something, and when you think ty are looking to how they are handling thinks, to go to them when you've given a referral. some are coming in, and saying "we better give this to the doj." a month later, the witnesses they were never contacted. why does jeff sessions, the attorney general of the time, point john huber? and what does he do about it if he doesn't talk to the whistle-blowers? >> kennedy: maybe we don't know who he's talking to. >> jason: but he should talk to these witnesses. >> harris: i was going to say, i will yield by tieback to the congressman.

she take it anyway, because you should. you have had conversation with jeff sessions and you know how he does his business, or did his business. according to you -- and i will toss it right back to you -- it was problematic for getting to the bottom of things. >> jason: i'm glad he's the former attorney general, because i thought he was worthless. i can't tell the difference between jeff sessions and eric holder. they acted exactly the same. it was terrible, it's horrific. what's frustrating here is that you have whistle-blowers with legitimate claims who come in, spent time with congress, you then turn it over to the department of justice and there is no excuse for them at least to not have an interview with them. >> harris: is there something happening surreptitiously that the public should know about? >> jason: we don't know. >> harris: but you are on the oversight. >> jason: the most important thing is michael horowitz, pfizer abuse, that will take to the beginning of next year. speech he was the other option? if you're giving it to the doj

and they're not doing anything, then what? is it about the expected genera general? >> jason: he can go back and find out why they are not doing their job. >> kennedy: let me ask this. obviously, the former attorney general appointed this u.s. attorney in order to investigate. so we don't have to have another special counsel. is it so -- i don't always like to use the term "deep state," although i think there's something there -- is the department of justice protecting itself, essentially, from anything embarrassing that might come out about potential surveillance abuses? should they really be investigating themselves? >> lisa: that's why i also think the inspector general's reports on fisa are so important and critical. it's an important source taking an examination seeing if there is wrongdoing. an aspect of this is that it's not being discussed that much, the credibility hit that it has taken recent time. you have lanny davis, who has essentially thrown cold water on the parts in the dossier about his client, michael cohen, saying that's not true.

like he never visited prague. he has said it's not true. you also have, i believe it's michael isaac hoff, one of the reporters for yahoo that originally reported on the dossier which also said he thinks key components aren't true. and are unverified. he also have christopher steele in a court filing he also admitted that parts of his dossier are unverified as well. give this repeated throwing cold water on a lot of these claims, yet we know that the dossier was used in part to obtain a fisa warrant on carter page. that should be very concerning for other americans. >> harris: hopefully the report we've been talking about will show the trail with all of that because it got renewed. not to put a finer point on that, by republicans. it got renewed over and over. using that. >> don't get me started on that! devin nunes! >> harris: hopefully that will will -- >> kennedy: they were acting surprised when they abused it. the six attorney general session supported john huber it to do this very thing.

that's what makes this highly suspicious, because it has gone nowhere. that's what his job is. he's usually the attorney general attorney general for utah, but he was supposed to be looking at -- >> melissa: do you want to solve the super? there's no way to solve it! that's where the answers hopefully lie. >> kennedy: when you binge watch politics. that's what happens. more signs that the 2020 recent taking shape. what these democrats are doing now to address specular should they are about to jump in the ring, and what -- we will debate and discuss. next. ♪ on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid, plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. a place with one of the highest life expectancies in the country. you see so many people walking around here in their hundreds. so how do you stay financially well

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>> lisa: welcome back. new signs of the presidential field is taking shape. former texas congressman beto o'rourke reportedly planning a road trip. "the wall street journal" reporting to 46-year-old democrat wants to meet voters outside of texas, as he decides whether to run for president in 2020. he is also reportedly looking to travel solo without staffers or members of the press, but maybe put his trip on social media. don't worry, melissa. democrats in the early contests state of south carolina and nevada have launched beto efforts. he won't have the say to himself because kemmer craddick

california democratic candidate kamala harris is reportedly planning a white house run. i will start with you, because you know a thing or two about running for office. does beto o'rourke have a path to the presidency? >> jason: you mean robert francis over it? his real name customer graphic is much more exciting and dynamic and new compared to the old thread that we have seen with biden and bernie sanders and whatnot. if they are going to have a field of 20 plus candidates out there, i don't know what his message would be. i lost in texas. >> lisa: do you think you could bite into president trump's ground and some of these rural -- to be some of these borough states? >> jason: if you think about how this formula has been, they find some of you has done something but haven't yet been defined in the full to mold them into the candidate they want

them to be. >> kennedy: johnny bravo! >> jason: i love johnny bravo. think about it, president carter, president clinton, barack obama -- they hadn't accomplished a lot, they had a little bit of credibility, but they molded them almost through focus groups to the person they wanted. >> melissa: it's effective. i also love the idea of him going out alone without anyone with him. i laughed when you were saying that, but that would be refreshing. that would be totally authentic. >> lisa: it's got to be documented, though. the speed you without question. but the idea of going out with our protection and without somebody sending their shipping your words interesting. i feel sorry for elizabeth warren and all this, because she missed her minute. there was a time when she had excitement and enthusiasm in all those things, but that's clearly past. that's not going to work. we all saw kamala harris dancing on twitter this weekend, i think. i noticed that, you notice that, too. we have entered that era where they are all going to show us how cool and how human they are.

so now it's beto's turn, as well. we are going to see. the way you describe it, it's threatening. >> lisa: to melissa's point -- look at, democrats are going to have the challenge as you pointed out as well. this really crowded primary field. how do you break through in that scenario? >> melissa: dancing. >> lisa: you're right! it >> kennedy: right now there is dancing, there's avocado toast. stupid, demonstrative social media stance. people trying to prove how real and cool they are. we are still in very serious times economically, in terms of foreign policy, and also big domestic issues. you are going to need to hear some real policy stances from these people that go beyond "let me crack a beer!" and i know that it will hitting the road. i hope he's not driving himself. [laughter] >> melissa: don't forget carrying hot sauce in the purse. hillary clinton's line. this is why we get to the reasons why politicians are just

like us. >> kennedy: i can't wait for the debates, because that will show who is really going to be be -- >> lisa: i think americans pick up on real authenticity or not, which is why elizabeth warren is in trouble. where "outnumbered" in just a moment.

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ito address my fellow veterans, because i know so many of you have served our country honorably. one of the benefits that we as a country give you as a veteran is the eligibility for a va loan for up to 100% of your home's value. if you need cash for your family, call newday usa. with automatic authority from the va, we can say yes when banks say no. give us a call. call now: 1-855-376-1361. >> melissa: think you to jason chaffetz. how does this end? at the shutdown and the stalemate. i'm tired of it. end it. tell me now! [laughter] >> jason: i don't know! the president -- it's going to be awesome tonight. i look forward to it.

it's a great moment. i want to see if the democrats have -- define security, democrats. tried to do that. >> melissa: you didn't tell me how it ends, though. you told me what happens next. [laughter] we will be back here at noon eastern tomorrow. now, here's harris! >> harris: we begin with a fox news alert. president trump sent it to address the nation from the oval office in prime time tonight. to make his case for the border wall, as the government shutdown hits day 18. democrats will get equal time, following the president. what will that look like? let's go "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. we are just hours from that prime time showdown between the president and democratic leaders. the president is expected to argue to the nation tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern that a crisis at the border with mexico requires the wall he is demanding, before ending the partial government shutdown. but democrats are not having it, and they will give a televised rebuttal as well. delivered by house speaker nancy pelosi and senator minority leader chuck schumer. meanwhile, vice presiden