hammer! [laughter] >> bill: i love that answer. >> sandra: i think we are giddy at this point. thank you for joining us come everybody. >> bill: steve on friday. >> sandra: sp 25 starts now. >> harris: fox news alert, we are waiting procedural votes in the senate on two computing bills aimed at reopening the government. the republican bill that includes funding for president trump's border wall or barrier, and democrats 'spill that does not include that funding. neither is expected to pass, but we are waiting to see if any lawmakers split with the parties and vote with the other side. you are watching "outnumbered." i'm her smoking. here today, joseph kennedy on the foxes don't like business that were, there she is. beautiful purple, cutting herself. fox news contributor, lisa boothe, bringing the sunshine. contributor just good health, also smiling. in the center seat today, get ready to rumble. professional wrestler and fox news contributor tyrus. hopefully we'll need to wrestling. it's because it would be frowned upon. >> harris: on the fox nation

app, he's our number today. >> is certainly m. >> lisa: he would win in any wrestling match. >> h i would love that. explain yourself again >> harris: is that true? >> joe: not here, but yeah. >> i'm teasing you, because of been with fox for almost four years. i'm finally sitting next to you. so i've made it, ladies and gentlemen. i have arrived. [laughter] >> harris: i do take a vacation day for an hour again! it's good to see you! goodness gracious, that hurt. the >> tyrus: it should. >> harris: all seriousness now, and the news. we await the senate voting. some republicans and democrats signaling they will cross party lines. a spokesperson for democrat senator joe manchin says he may be a "yes" on both the democrats and proposals. on the house side, democrats are working on their own proposal that would reportedly offer up

billions of dollars for border security, not for wall funding. top house republican kevin mccarthy says it's pellucid who has not been willing to negotiate. a short time ago, house speaker nancy pelosi called on the senate to pass the democrats' clean bill today and slamming them for not taking it up sooner. watch it. >> today the senate vote on a bipartisan bill to open the government. it contains the same proposal he already supported. now they won't. hopefully there is no excuse for them not to pass this legislation. >> nancy pelosi has the record for speaking the longest on the floor last year, and it was about daca. but she comes out against the president's proposal. it's only the president who is leading the shutdown. when the speakers acting at at home differently. >> harris: a new fox news poll found that 51% of it blamed president trump for the shutdown while 34% put it in the

democrats in congress. only 3% when congressional republicans. tyrus, we could see something big today were nothing. >> tyrus: let's hope we see in something big. if nothing happens -- what are we, and a 35 or 36? at this point i don't pick any one will budge on the wall. everybody else seems to be negotiable. the president won't budge if you don't give them what he wants. nancy has been -- she is not getting what he wants. at this point, the best thing to do, if he is going to a national crisis and do it to get the ball, just do it at at this po. >> harris: can i ask a quick follow-up before we open it up for the rest of the couch? when you say give the president what he wants -- there is an argument out there, and it might even be bipartisan. mainly, if you capitulate this point and you let a closing government continue to be a way that both democrats and republicans fight for what they want, the only people who really win are the politicians. the rest of us, the citizens,

lose. >> tyrus: i don't follow anyone blindly. i like to want to the beat of my own drum. i've seen on the ground how much this is affecting people. a quick shout out, they donated 1,000 meals to families in the mississippi and louisiana area to give the dignity and allow them to pick the food up. i think it's terrible that people work 80 or 60 hours a week and had to stand in line at food banks and go through all this stuff just to get some food. one particular family was crying because they were able to get their kids -- "hey, no top ramen this week!" i don't care whether you are democrat or republican at this point, you're hurting the american people and hurting morale. do your executive order, your funding from pentagon. let's get these people back to work. i don't care anymore about who's winning or whose fault it is. if you ask or give the people, they don't care whose fault it is either. the effect is hurting us. it no longer matters what political person is going to win. because no one is going to win,

honestly. >> harris: the point that you made, we are now in month 2 of this, lisa. >> lisa: it's definitely pretty crazy this is going on so long. i disagree with declaring a national emergency, because what's going to happen with that is the next democrat president is going to declare a national emergency on guns, a national emergency on climate change. you will certainly see that comeback in a way that republicans are not going to be appreciative or approving of. it's very frustrating. in essence they ground the same thing. we talked about this numerous times on the show. in essence they agree on the same thing, which is a physical structure of the southern border. for so many americans, it's got to be incredibly frustrating to see that there's a difference between the heights or with the physical structure looks like, but in essence they agree on the same thing. i think president trump has actually shown a willingness to negotiate. he did that in the deal that he most recently announced. he has also backed off from calling a national emergency, which it seems like he was potentially looking at. i think he demonstrated a

willingness to negotiate. i don't think we have seen that same willingness from democrats, personally. particularly nancy pelosi. >> harris: kennedy, there is reporting about a bill that house democrats are floating or potentially floating that would call it border security. then you have to have that trust that they don't all seem to have amongst themselves, that they would talk about what to do with the wall funding. i say take it further, put that date in there. but make the predicate that there is also a provision that says to let the experts tell you whether or not you need more technology, a barrier or people. by the way, come up with a retention plan so we don't have people escaping border security because they prepay for their own moving expenses in some cases. >> kennedy: the experts, not just the people who guard the border. legislators and citizens who live along the border who have much more interest in this argument. but the whole thing, it boils down to how you see immigration.

that's why there is such a standoff. immigration to me is like the sun. one half will say that the sun is wonderful and we can harness its energy and power our city. that would be immigrants coming over, wanting to make a better life for themselves. some people say that the sun gives a skin cancer and skin cancer can kill you. i could be a bad thing. what they don't realize is you can get sunscreen and have solar panels simultaneously. but it's whether or not you view this as something very negative or something very positive. and whether you are able to accept some mitigating features that would allow the sun to shine. >> harris: that's a great metaphor. hold on a second, i want to call for, if we can put on the screen, another poll. when it comes to the shutdown versus the situation of the border, 75% of people say they see the shutdown as an emergency or major problem. 59% the same of the situation at the border. jessica, what do you say? >> jessica: those are just

more exaggerated numbers then we saw with us all kicked off. >> harris: exactly, this is what people are saying. >> jessica: i'm saying it's increased because people may have seen the real world effects that tyrus was mentioning. talking about the fbi releasing a statement that they can't do their job. if you watched the video from that of the coast guard that he put out, saying it's appalling that -- >> harris: he said it's unacceptable people had to go to food banks. >> jessica: it is. and you have wilbur ross out there this morning saying he doesn't know with a that people aren't getting their paychecks. which is akin to his campbell soup comments he made after he was hired by the administration. it's a dire circumstance. i'm hopeful about what jim clyburn was talking about, this compromise bill that we will have a smart technology wall. that's what israel has. in the places that we need to extend physical barriers, that would happen. where we need more people on the border, we will do that. >> kennedy: what about nancy pelosi? that physical barriers are the same thing as building a wall. it's the same thing. republicans have not altered the message, the president has altered the message that it's a few hundred miles.

not 1950 miles of the entire southern border. >> jessica: absolutely. i think of something interest in going out if you look at the messaging, come up from steny hoyer and nancy pelosi, who are in lockstep and have been allies for a long time. >> harris: a "no," steny hoyer so the barriers work. >> jessica: i mean for their careers. i wonder if there's a good cop bad cop thing going on. >> harris: can ask you a serious question? if there's a good cop bad cop between the house majority leader, steny hoyer, and the house speaker, nancy pelosi, does it ever include him saying to her, "you know, you have some of this border, this strong fence line, in your seat. if we press through, do you want me to write legislation for you to take down? i'm just curious." >> jessica: she doesn't want to take down. nobody says that. >> harris: no one does! >> kennedy: if walls are immoral, get rid of walls. stealing is immoral. don't steal! >> jessica: don't steal, don't commit crimes, don't do this. >> kennedy: walls are immoral!

>> jessica: that's what i'm saying. i think steny hoyer is speaking to that 71% who showed up in there and that poll. >> harris: 75%. >> jessica: 75%. border security does matter and we can move it forward. i'm saying i'm hopeful about that bill and that more people like joe manchin will say, "i'm going to look at both these things." there if it has democrats saying they want to see the bill to talk about the $5.7 billion. a few of them are of. >> harris: tyrus, last word on this question marks be sick this is what the problem is. everybody has great ideas and solutions but no one is figuring anything out. that's why i'm still stuck on i it. we don't want to set that precedent, but people need to go back to work. it's not just border patrol, it's border protection prethat's the eastern seaboard. coast guard's having been paid almost three paychecks cycles. they are outmanned, tired, frustrated, and we are more vulnerable now. tsa, i travel every week. it's down to one or two lines for this inconvenience, but whatever. even more important, the aviation people are stressed.

they are tired. >> harris: air traffic control. >> tyrus: they have to go to work. how happy with this panel be if you are sitting here without checks and had the talk? it would be a totally different conversation. >> kennedy: in the meantime, the state of the unit drama continues. president trump agreed to delay his address until after the partial government shutdown is over. president trump treating late last night, "i will do the address when the shutdown is over. i'm not looking for in a or tentative venue because there is no venue that can compete with the tradition of the house chamber. i will look forward to giving a great state of the union address in the near future." the president's move to postpone the address capped off a a dayf tit for tat feuding with speaker nancy pelosi where she rebuffed his demand to deliver the address in the capital as originally planned. here is the speaker today, about what changed from the time she invited the president to her rejecting his address, and reaction for republican -- from republican senator lindsey

graham. >> did something change between when he sent the initial letter? >> that was the first day of the session of congress and that very same day passing legislation that was passed overwhelmingly. we are saying, "we are giving you back exactly what you gave us. take yes for an answer." >> nancy pelosi has become a nightmare for the democratic party. she seems unreasonable, she seems to have a dislike for the president that is hurting the country. this idea of not letting the president speak is really overplaying your hand. >> kennedy: it can come back to bite democrats. a new fox news poll shows the 65% of voters on the president to deliver the state of the union as scheduled. however, in the simple not, footers believe pelosi is better at washington gamesmanship than the president. which of those two numbers tell you? >> lisa: i think this is really incredible petty. i wish the media would cover that way. nancy pelosi extended the invitation while the government was shut down.

her reasoning behind it over safety concerns was debunked by dhs and secret service. really, her desire -- the dis- invitation and revoking this invitation is solely based on petty politics. clearly she doesn't want to have access to 50 million viewers that would be watching. when you're talking about a government shutdown, the public relations aspect matters. she wants to deny him that opportunity. i think it's sad. it also demonstrates how difficult it's going to be for president trump and nancy pelosi to come to the middle and find some common ground. if you can't even agree over president trump just coming in delivering the state of the union, this is the first time it's happened in history. revoking this invitation. if they can't even agree on this, what hope do we have that they are going to come to any sort of solution? it >> kennedy: to tyrus' point, this is exhausting. is this how it's always going to be? >> harris: it's a fair question. because this is just the beginning. there are a lot of things that need to be legislated. the government has been shut down. when it does finally open up, we've got the debt limit -- can

we other issues that we have to talk about. yesterday i interviewed kellyanne conway of the white house staff, and senior advisor. she said -- she called out the pettiness and all of this. when you see the president move this morning. people aren't really giving them credit for that. but he moved. she played her leg, and then he moved a leg on the chessboard. you have it. now we will see a state of the union after the government reopens, and does that put pressure on everybody? then get it reopened. i think we have to give some credit. i give her credit when she pulled back and said, "it wasn't originally a dis- invite." can you come up with another date? and throughout all of games and everything, no we've come up with a post shutdown date. let's focus on the next thing, which is reopening the government. >> kennedy: did he cave, tyrus? >> tyrus: i don't think he

caved, i think he did the right thing. he did what was best for the country. i think having a rally doesn't do you justice, and it just opens up -- it only opens up the criticism where he's only talking to his base. there's a reason why we have the meeting there come out that speech. it's historic and there is no -- if i was in his situation, there is no way i would want to do it somewhere else. it's a great thing. when the government reopens, we will have a state of the unit. i think that's fine, good on his part, and maybe that's the one chest move, a lateral move that opens the door up to may be saying, "listen, what about $3.5 billion?" spew when it's a capitulation. >> kennedy: i want to bring to us again, because we haven't heard from her yet. this is a critical time to solidify this relationship. it's going to be completely negative and somebody is be staff in a game of chicken and trench warfare. i know nancy pelosi feels like she's gotten a win, but what

happens next? >> jessica: she does feel like she has gotten a win. >> kennedy: at what cost, though? >> jessica: at what cost customer use of uptick on who is blaming presidents. they need to be cautious about that. i would say that the president took the temperature of what was going on. there were republican congressmen jockeying to have the state of the unit in their home districts, saying "i will give you the superdome. because the saints got robbed." that's clearly inappropriate. it was also fundamental in paris to have a seat of the union with hundred thousand federal workers not being paid. >> kennedy: then why have they come up with a counterproposal? >> jessica: like i said relief started, i'm hopeful that the bill jim clyburn was talking about would be the solution there. and we got some smart technology. that we are doing the same thing as israel is doing, our greatest ally in the middle east. he gets a talking point in there as well. and we can move forward. all of the conversations we are having, to tyrus' initial point, the people were at home at with

no paychecks. in food lines. they are serving our country. >> kennedy: and they are looking at democrats saying, "you aren't doing anything." >> jessica: no, they are looking at the president saying, "you got us into this mess. you said you would take responsibility if you are shut down." >> tyrus: the only people taking sides or pundits talking on the tv. speech a great job, though! [laughter] >> tyrus: i'm just saying people don't care whose fault it is anymore. they just look at it as once again, the government doing yesterday. speech you with all the political divisiveness in washington at this moment, one house democratic leader not apologizing for calling the president the grand wizard of 1600 pennsylvania avenue. he says the comment was meant to start our needed conversation about race. is that fair, or is there a double standard? plus, the senate intelligence committee has michael cohen appearing next month. this, after the former lawyer called his testimony to house lawmakers citing threats from the president and rudy giuliani. whether they need to hear from michael cohen and what if you

will comply with the subpoena. it's coming up. >> make no mistake, michael cohen will speak. they will not support this truth coming out. ♪ okay, max...time to help mrs. tyler reach her health goals! i'm in! but first... shelfie! the great-tasting nutrition of ensure. with up to 30 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals! ensure. for strength and energy. it's been a long time since andrew dusted off his dancing shoes. luckily denture breath will be the least of his worries. because he uses polident 4 in 1 cleaning system to kill 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. polident. clean. fresh. and confident.

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senate intelligence committee had subpoenaed michael cohen to testify in mid-february. that's according to cohen's attorney. this came after cohen postponed his highly anticipated house testimony set for the seventh, claiming "ongoing threats" from president trump and attorney rudy giuliani. lanny davis is calling for action on both fronts. >> the house of representatives now has an obligation. a resolution of censure, when the president of the united states indisputably intimidates and obstructs justice to prevent a witness from testifying. so is in a criminal and discussion of rudy giuliani for witness tampering. make no mistake, michael cohen will speak. they will not support this truth coming out >> harris: davis claims the public comments that his father-in-law may have ties to organized crime amounted to

threat. he's up for a three year sentence in prison for march after pleading guilty to numerous times including tax evasion. no immediate comment from rudy giuliani all of this. now the president is sitting back, tweeting today, "so interesting that michael cohen, who will sadly not be testifying before congress, is losing the lawyer of cricket hillary clinton to represent him. gee, how did that happen? remember july 4th weekend when cricket went before the fbi and wasn't sworn in? no tape, nothing?" >> the side of lanny davis is missing evidence of this. he points to, "some but he said something about someone's father-in-law," by the way across yesterday is that it was all through the weekend that those threats had been going on. do need to see proof now what he's saying with regard to his client, michael cohen? >> jessica: it's clear that the senate intelligence committee has decided this wouldn't be endangering them. i doubt that a bunch of lawmakers would be making this decision to bring him in front

of the committee if they thought his wife was a earths, or his family. what i believe the intelligence committee is trying to get out and why lanny davis and michael cohen didn't want to testify is that maybe we will get some answers about that buzz for you to report. was actually direct to do from the president or what was implied. >> harris: i think buzzfeed need that's evidence, too. >> jessica: it's possible that the report relates to agents working on the fdny investigation and not under mueller. similar could release that statement. i don't know if that's the case, but... >> harris: the last time i was in a room with lanny davis was with you, kennedy. speech it was fun! [laughs] >> harris: it was the dnc convention. 2016, i was. right? and it was epic between you two. >> kennedy: he was highly irrational. he wouldn't answer questions about hillary clinton. i'm very curious as to why local: of all the people on would select lanny davis, if

he's trying to come off as sympathetic and apolitical. i don't know that lanny davis is particularly great at his job, as a spokesperson. and michael cohen obviously is not good at his job as a lawyer. he is such a questionable and checkered past from those curious taxi medallion transactions in the '90s to payments in hundreds of thousands of dollars from brooke he russian hockey players. those goes on and on. he went to honorable law school. >> harris: did he? >> kennedy: a compromise person. but why did the president allow them to get so close? speed when i asked the president that when i sat down with him, and it was very simple sick answer. >> kennedy: you got a shady guy who's your campaign manager for a short time come up with michael cohen, your fixer, the most trusted person in your orbit. >> jessica: shady things, she blew her, shady stuff.

>> harris: from a man who never admits regrets, he said he made a mistake in hiring michael cohen. >> lisa: obviously. but if you are michael cohen, wouldn't you want to postpone the testimony because you're facing a jail sentence and you won't want to increase any legal liability or face a question mark if i was him, which i would never be, because he's a bad guy -- if your interest -- if you are michael cohen, your interest is to reduce your time and reduce your liability. >> harris: anybody else, in terms of saying that he's writing you -- >> kennedy: but he backs that. >> tyrus: i think he's also cooperating with the senate and cooperating with more testimony that will help them get a reduced sentence. so that's what he is so willing to testify, because he's hoping that lawmakers will look when it comes to -- >> harris: that he will -- a >> tyrus: that when he goes up for parole, he will be able to say, "look at all the things i did," and get an early release.

>> jessica: but the paul manafort issue is different because paul manafort was lying to the mueller investigation and sending furtive whatsapps to people saying "don't rat on me" or whatever. we haven't seen evidence that michael cohen is doing that. >> tyrus: if you want to say that cohen is a liar, come on -- >> kennedy: he could perjure himself once again and undo any of the goodwill. >> harris: he could make it work. >> kennedy: the southern district of new york had absolutely no -- >> lisa: that's the point i was trained make. you made my point on the flip side. he said that if he testified maybe he could help himself. alternatively, perhaps he opens up a new interest in the things that he says that maybe are illegal or damaging. >> tyrus: or he testifies, he says some stuff, and then giuliani or trump since they have been working together for so long, president trump probably knows where the bones are buried in his closet, as well. dear old dad. that's what he said look at the dead. i think you know some stuff where the bodies are buried in the cohen family.

keeping it real. >> harris: let's get back to the facts. that speculating. here we go. [new questions about a potential 22 a bid for joe biden after hued the former vp gives a speech to a right-leaning group in price as a republican congressman. biden's spokesperson. some democrats may have a doubts. today biden himself weighed in. we'll talk about it. >> i read in "the new york times" today that one of my problems is if i have a run for president, i like republicans. well, bless me father, for i have sinned. [laughter] ♪ if you're a veteran homeowner and need money for your family, call newday usa. a newday va home loan lets you refinance your home and take out 54,000 dollars or more to pay credit card debt, or just put money in the bank. it even lowers your payments by over 600 dollars a month. as a veteran, you've earned the powerful va home loan benefit that lets you refinance up to 100 percent of your home's value.

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♪ >> kennedy: oh, joe! former vice president joe biden speaking at the winter meeting of the conference of mayors is mining. growing speculation that he may run for president in 2020.

the event coming on the heels of a "new york times" report claiming biden made $200,000 for a speech in michigan where he praised republican congressman fred upton, a republican, three weeks before the november midterm. where upton narrowly won reelection. in that speech, biden reportedly called upton a champion in the fight against cancer, which of course claimed the life of his son, beau. he addressed the report that he infected showered praise upon upton and others. watch. >> there was a big article toda today, that fred upton -- i went out and spoke at an event, and he was there. i praise him. and he was in a race, but he praised him about the fight against cancer. he stepped up. he and three have a stepped up and helped us pass it. so i acknowledge that, and now -- i don't know what i am. >> kennedy: that's interesting. jessica, he hates cancer more than he hates republicans. i don't have a problem with that!

c5 i feel pretty good about it, frankly. >> kennedy: so what's the problem? >> jessica: i don't think there's a problem. freely, there are a lot of false purity test being thrown around right now. most from the sanders camp. they're coming for kamala harris, elizabeth warren less than kamala harris. as more people come and it will become more aggressive. everybody knows who joe biden's. that's part of our he's the leader of the pack retina. that's a name i.d.-based. at this point, in '08, hillary clinton was a ahead of barack obama. it was revealed, the way that should be. especially during a dark period in american history which i think the should general be looked upon as, people are looking at what he says about fred upton and republicans and thinking, "the outcome that guys like my neighbor. i live next door to a republican and we get along fine."

i don't, actually. >> harris: you say that like it's a bad thing! i will slide in with this. it's not the glowing words that were used about upton. it's the glowing words that were not used about the democratic opponent that might have helped him win. and that's what democrats are questioning. "fine, you found somebody who is equal mind on something that you feel strongly about that we all do, fighting cancer. but did you hurt your own party by not endorsing and speaking so glowingly of the democrats?" it's just a question. i don't think republicans have a problem with it. >> jessica: he wasn't out there campaigning for fred upton. he was being honest. >> harris: kennedy dropped it. she dropped some knowledge. >> kennedy: what you make of all of this? >> tyrus: a microphone or her to drop. there was a great point. mr. biden reminds -- well, him and the late great john mccain, who was the closest thing to a maverick as we have the democratic party. he will work with anybody if he agrees with what they're saying.

that's huge problem problem for divisive democrats, and we have the same thing on the right. so don't open gasp. biden represents a way of thinking that -- i don't care what your stance is, what is your idea? your policy affects me in my family. >> harris: you like biden? >> lisa: i don't dislike them. i think he seems like a reasonable guy come over gravis of what political how you are on. i go back and forth on whether he will be a strong candidate. he has tried this and fields in the past. so he hasn't demonstrated that he could be a winning candidate, necessarily. i don't think i think his i think his biggest challenge will be the primary field. it's going to continue increase preclearly the democratic party continues to turn to the left. is there space for him to get through that competitive primary field? also, we have a competitive field like that, you could have someone come out of left field.

>> harris: literally! [laughs] that was good. >> lisa: thank you. that you don't anticipate. that could be his challenge, if you can even get to the general election. that remains to be seen. >> jessica: he has no record to say that he doesn't need to be talking about hypotheticals. >> harris: but does not hurt him? >> jessica: a lot of people were pretty big fans of the obama administration. >> kennedy: he was one half of the two-term winning ticket. that's part of his history to place after his failed presidential bid. so obviously he has learned a lot about national politics since then. he's a more sympathetic since then. the name i.d., and not drinking a beer clumsily. [laughter] >> tyrus: that's true come you got the drinks move. >> kennedy: the special counsel alleging paul manafort repeatedly lied to investigators despite a plea deal. now his legal team is leveling new accusations of its own, all before the former trump campaign chair heads back to court. we discussed next. ♪ my teeth have always been a very sore spot for me,

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♪ >> lisa: welcome back. paul manafort's legal team defying special counsel robert mueller in court filings released yesterday. manafort lawyers rejecting mueller's claims that the one time trump campaign chair like to investigators after agreeing to cooperate in a plea deal las. manafort lawyers also accusing mueller of using "unusual tactics" and suggesting prosecutors misinterpreted manafort's honest memory lapses and innocent misstatements as attempts to deceive. he's due in court tomorrow too good for the acquisitions that he lied. meanwhile, a new fox news poll shows 49% of voters now approve of mueller's investigation into the term campaign and russia. and, that a plurality of 46% believe the term campaign coordinated with russia, up several points from a year ago. candidly, i was there with you. would you make of the manafort lawyers 'claim that there was unusual tactics construct we did see mueller go after manafort

for things like failure to register as a forte agent. that's rare, especially when a lot of people do it in washington, d.c. >> kennedy: they have to be sweating about some of the stuff. >> lisa: would you make from the statements of the lawyers? speak >> kennedy: they are very concerned. this activity can be perceived in two ways. the person who can put you in person, their way of perceiving things obviously wins the day. so they have to convince a judge that paul manafort, who now has a history of lying which is codified in these convictions and please, they have to convince the judge that, "no, he was just being forgetful." "he thought he was talking about someone else." his path is creating is present. >> lisa: tyrus, do you think there is any merit to these allegations? or do you think it's this last ditch? >> tyrus: what's he going to say in court tomorrow? "i tell the truth even when i

lie?" [laughter] "i didn't remember?" i don't let my kids get away with "add or member what happened." i don't see how any court is going to listen to what he has to say. i, for one, am over it. he led from day one, he lied to get into the job. did dishonorable things on the job, which got him out the job and now you have to pay the bil bill. saying "i don't remember" or "i misspoke," these are classic lying terms. "please believe me! i thought you were talking about joe schwab, not joe smith excellent" he's done. this is laughable. the good news for him is that he doesn't have to wear the jumpsuit. they will let him wear a suit tomorrow. it'll probably be the suit he's buried in. he gets to dress up nice to see his deal go out the window tomorrow. >> harris: manafort's team is saying there's a binary choice, and a fair reading. they say demonstrates a lack of

consistency, meaning that he can't remember. or, in his recollection. or the other option is that he was under stress because of the presidential campaign. everybody in the presidential campaign is under stress. >> tyrus: walmart is under stress, we are all under stress. it doesn't count. >> jessica: it wasn't his first political rodeo. he was doing all this in ukraine before. but he knows exactly what the stuff is like. i do wonder what the rick gates factor is here. because he's been postponed and postponed, if he continues cooperate with the mueller probe. so don't know what he's continuing to get from them. but the poll that you put up about increased faith in the mueller report, the investigation as this is going on, i think that's important. as these indictments continue to come down. >> lisa: there is more to the polling, so i want to get your take on this. also part of the poll, there's 41% of registered voters that think president trump should be impeached compared to 49% that think he should not be

impeached. the number of those who say no i was ticked up a couple of points since last september. what do you think is going to happen with democrats on the impeachment front? we have already seen democrats say that even the potential campaign finance violations are impeachable. it seems like the barkeep is moving for what's impeachable for democrats. >> harris: speaker pelosi is part of why the bars move, because she says that's what number they should be going. >> tyrus: is the same difference with the shutdown. you can come down mike impeachment, it'll get to the senate, it's never going to happen. if you want an outcome of vote them out. let the american people speak. it's literally going to be a waste of time. a bunch of action and hearings that go nowhere. the house can say get an outcome of the senate will say no way. it will be a waste of time. >> harris: evidence would be helpful, one way or the other. >> tyrus: if it were more time? >> harris: evidence. >> tyrus: #evidence. [laughter] >> lisa: we've got to get going. not to mention you need 67 votes in the senate. >> tyrus: not going to happen.

>> lisa: a top democrat in congress now defending himself after likening president trump to a ku klux klan leader. he apologize, or right that this is some sort of rhetoric needed to spark further conversation with the country? we will to be the next. >> we have a heater in the white house. the birther-in-chief, at the grand wizard of 1600 pennsylvania avenue. ♪ mom! he's blinking too loud. sorry, is that too loud? you don't need any more hormones in your house. that's why you chose kraft natural cheese. made with fresh milk without the added hormone rbst.

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♪ >> we have a hater in the white house. the birther-in-chief, the grand wizard of 1600 pennsylvania avenue. [applause] one of the things we have learned is that while jim crow may be dead, he still got some nieces and nephews that are alive and well. >> lisa: that's house democratic chairman, hakeem jeffries, ripping it to president trump over his record on race relations at a martin luther king jr. day event on monday. jeffries defending his rhetoric yesterday. take a watch. >> i do not believe that the president is a card-carrying member of the kkk, but he has presided over and engaged in directly a series of racially insensitive remarks. i also believe in the power of

redemption. hopefully we'll see that her behavior moving forward as it relates to trying to bring this country together and not peddling xenophobia out of the oval oval office and six and hundred pence being avenue. >> jessica: i think we can all agree that's not the best analogy to be making. but what he is tapping into and what angela wright was tapping into the other night when she was talking about the covington boys and the hat being akin to the hood, it's something that is actually going on in this country. the people generally feel -- tyrus, i would love your thought on this. >> tyrus: percival, as a brother, if you're going to use the term "grand wizard," a better stick. because that's a huge -- there is no coming back from that. that means unequivocally that he's a racist. i think president trump needs to be better on racial things, 100%. i would have liked him to come out and say something about steve king's reese comments, it would be a great thing if he had

said something. and it bothers me. unfortunately, make america great again was a political slogan. it was used before, ronald reagan used it before. it was about railing america and making it great. unfortunately, i would say 10% of the population that voted for president trump has a different view. they have embraced it as "make america white again." unfortunately, due to the particular group that takes something that was used about galvanizing america has turned it into something ugly. and what happens is, when one small -- and this happens way too much in our society now, especially with tv in the way things are -- one bad guy on twitter takes one thing and makes it racist, it's everybody. if your kid is wearing -- like i said, i have all of other issue with the kids at the protest, stuff like that. where were the adults? but somebody could be wearing it because they genuinely support the republican party and they support the president. they are wearing it because they really believe that their jobs and lives in cities are going to

get better and that's what that means to them. people can also say "he means this." and that's the problem. >> lisa: find a lot of the criticism to be unfair, in the sense that president trump was recently engaged on criminal justice reform, which has been an issue that a lot of african-americans care about in this country. it was very important president trump. further, if i was president trump, i would be personally offended by people aligning you with the kkk or neo-nazis who literally want to bring death to her daughter, to her son-in-law, to your grandkids. people that he clearly loves. as evidenced by the things he says about them, who are jewish. i think it would be offensive as well. as martin luther king day the day to do this, when we should e honoring a man's legacy was uniting us to mark the uniting force? i think on all accounts the statement was wrong. i also think that it's unfair to align president trump in that way. >> tyrus: i disagree with you. the words are strong. i think they were inappropriate. but you have to call him out on some things.

just keeping it real. sometimes it's hard to defend supporting the white house when things happen, when he needs to speak and be a leader for everybody. i don't think he always does that. >> kennedy: b could speak truth to power without something being called the grand wizard. >> tyrus: yes. to speak to somebody a congressman -- i take issue with some of things the president says that her beneath his office, but i would say the same thing about hakeem jeffries. if you really want to heal the country, and by god, if you are an elected official you certainly want to. then you have to do better than that. >> tyrus: how can you expect to get any kind of dialogue or redemption? if you are calling someone the grand wizard, how are you going to negotiate with that? grand wizards are typically pretty much set in their ways. so much so they are promoted to lead everybody, so they won't change their minds. like i said, it was attention-seeking. it got a headline. when he would like him to be more proactive and civil liberties or for minorities, insulted by people and political

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>> kennedy: think so much to tyrus, the star of fox nation. download it today. it's incredible. unpc is his show with the britt mchenry. her office that don michelson to give it. >> tyrus: have a movie that is dropped, "peace in the water."

check it out on amazon and itunes. >> kennedy: download fox nation and think before it later. buy me a box of chocolate and a pair of shoes. i don't mind. most of the issues, but chocolate, too. why not question what you thinkk you, tyrus. we are back in eastern tomorrow. right now, here's harris. >> harris: fox news would come if than 90 minutes from now the senate is expected to hold votes to advance competing bills to and the government shutdown. this is "outnumbered overtime," i'm harris faulkner. a lot happening this hour. lawmakers are set to consider president trump's proposal and a democratic bill which are both expected to fail at this point. the main sticking point continues to be border wall funding. meanwhile, a group of moderate blue democrats blue dog democrats as they call themselves, are calling for house and senate leadership to hold a bipartisan bicameral summit designed to produce legislation to end the partial government shutdown. "both parties must come together to end the brinkmanship and