>> shannon: we are out of time for tonight, but most grateful you spent the evening with us. we will see you tomorrow night. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight" ." roger stone was arrested on friday and chargedrg with seven felonies.ch none of the charges had anything to do with russian collusion or election meddling. but you never know that from the penalties he faces. if convicted, stone could die in prison. nobody in washington seems to find that punishment excessive. many have cheered it.n officially stone was charged with lying, something most of our political elite engage in day. his real crime was flamboyance. stone has spent the last 40 years giving the finger to the people in charge. in the end, they got him.as they always do.

stone's arrest is already fading from the headlines, replaced by the latest political crisis in the moment or a skirmish in the culture wars. soon we will forget it ever happened. before we do, it's worth taking just a moment to consider a few basic questions about it if only because nobody else is going to. first, why did the justice department stage what was in effect a military assault on roger stone's house? stone himself asked that question over the weekend. watch. >> the idea that a 29-member s.w.a.t. team in full tactical gear with assault weapons would surround my house and i would open the door looking down the barrel of assault weapons, that i would be frogmarched out front barefooted and handcuffed when they simply -- contacted me. >> as you know, it's pretty standard for that to happen. >> tucker: it's pretty standard, as you know. but is it pretty standard?

to send dozens of federal agents with rifles to arrest an unarmed 66-year-old man who's been charged with a nonviolent crime? well, no, it is not standard. it is shocking. any honest person who pays attention could tell you that. roger stone, who was there, says there were 29 agents on the scene, along with 17 vehicles, two of them armored, and a helicopter overhead. if that's an accurate accounting, it means the feds sent more armed men to roger stone's house in fort lauderdale than they did to osama bin laden's compound in pakistan, just for some perspective on this. what was the justification for doing that? prosecutors knew stone was not a flight risk. he's broke. he doesn't even have a valid passport. they could simply have called his lawyer and told him to surrender. that's the actual standard in cases like this. but they didn't do that. instead they went with guns drawn. who decided to do that? how much did it cost taxpayers?

we spent the last few days trying to answer those questions. it tells you a lot about contemporary america that we couldn't. we still have no idea. the justice department wouldn't answer us.ti the white house, which supposedly oversees the justicee department, didn't even respond. maybe they don't know the answer to those questions. possible. they don't control roberte mueller. nobody controls robert mueller. mueller can send armed men to your home to roust you from bed at gunpoint because he feels like it and there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it. mueller has an unlimited budget and no timetable. he doesn't have to answer questions. he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants to whomever he wants.an he cannot be fired. mueller is the single most powerful person in america and yet nobody voted for him. he is a living rebuke to the principles of our democratic system. at the same time, our leaders tell us we need robert mueller, all-powerful, unelected prosecutor accountable to no one

to protect us from threats to, brace yourself here, democracy. nobody in washington catches the irony of this. mueller himself is a threat to our democracy, the most powerful man elected by nobody.r our media don't ask questions about any of this or even acknowledge that it is a question. they have chosen sides.io here's roger stone from our show on friday night. >> it's disconcerting that cnn was aware that i would be arrested before my lawyers were informed. so that's disturbing. if it was a dangerous situation which would merit the s.w.a.t. team, well, then cnn's cameraman would beh in danger. i don't know why they would be allowed to be there. >> tucker: so that's a fair question about who asks it and many began asking within minute> of stone's arrest on friday morning. how did cnn know about a raid that was supposed to be secret? did they learn from mueller's team? cnn reacted angrily to the question.fr

we are reporters, they said. we are not state media. we didn't collude with the feds. we used reporters' intuition. yesterday cnn president jeff zucker dispatched his minions to bat down further questions on the topic. >> on the fringes of the right, a conspiracy theory spread and it was about cnn and robert mueller. that we were tipped off by mueller. >> to embarrass roger stone and record his arrest. they are saying that it's propaganda. a lot of people, including some mainstream commentators and journalists, started asking questions about this conspiracy theory. as journalists, we have to be very careful not to allow bad-faith actors to hijack the conversation and move the story away from what it really should be. >> tucker: [laughs] save that tape. it's one for the ages. it summarizes everything. just to recap what you just heard. we journalists, says cnn, need to fight back against the "fringes of the right" who just

want to "move the story away from what it should really r be" it goes without saying cnn decides. they decide what the story should really be, and if you don't agree, you are on the fringes of the right. in other words, shut up, you guys. stop asking questions we don't feel like answering. but the show persisted because it's our job. we asked cnn's official spokesman and the kid that you saw playing media reporter a very simple question. did mueller's office help you with your story?ia the response of course, feigned outrage. how dare you? you are right wing. be quiet. but when we kept pressing them, an interesting thing happened. they didn't deny it. to be totally clear, here's the specific question that we asked. "did federal law enforcement officials confirm the raid on roger stone's house to cnn before it happened?" very simple question. when we pressed it, cnn dropped the fake outrage.

they just refused to answer. because of course cnn talked to mueller's people before the raid. there was never any doubt about that. all the barking aside, mueller wanted the raid on roger stone's home caught on tape and publicly aired as a warning to other disobedient witnesses about what can happen to you if you step out of line.bo cnn was happy to oblige. cnn acted as the public relations arm of the mueller investigation as they have before, and then they lied about it in the most self-righteous possible way and sent those kids on tv to lie some more. it answers a lot of questions. no wonder cnn seems so eager to defend friday's raid and to belittle and attack and marginalize anyone who asked honest questions about it. t now they are no longer covering robert mueller. they're working for robert mueller and you should know that. kim strassel joins us tonight. great to see you.

before we get into what we've been talking about, there was news today from the administration that the mueller investigation is reaching itser final stage. do you think that's true, and what does that mean exactly? >> i hope so, tucker. two years of this is two years too long. we need some answers and it needs to happen. soon. this could be the bests thing that happens to the country in a very long time. if it is indeed finishing up. >> tucker: well, what a distraction from a lot of important things that are happening. as someone who covers the criminal justice world for a living, give us some perspective. late middle-aged guy, no history of violence, no passport, no firearms in the home. under investigation for over a year. emails and texts already in thes position of the prosecutor. would you send dozens of armed men to arrest him? is that normal?ed >> no, of course not. of course not. of course it's not normal. as you say, the standardo,

operating procedures here would be to call his lawyer and ask him to surrender. i think it gets to the other point of your opening as well. mr. mueller unfortunately does not answer to anyone. as a result, we can't bring up these topics. you can call and ask the question why do you do it? he doesn't have to answer. it. he doesn't have to answer to anybody in the end. that is one of the reasons that we should hope that all this is ending. especially when you look at the list of people he's gone after and the crimes for which they've been gone after. nearly all of them crimes that he claims they have committed g after he was appointed as special counsel. not any for the time period he was actually asked to investigate, at least not in america. >> tucker: as a constitutional question, how in a democratic republic can you have someone who's accountable to no elected person, who is accountable to no voters.ic i thought all power in the government emanates from voters. but mueller stands apart.

how can this be constitutionally allowed? >> well, legal scholars have had a lot of problems with theeg special counsel law for a long time, partly on reasons that you just mentioned and also on accountability questions. look, in theory, he can be fired, okay? what we both understand is that politically he can't be fired because of the brouhaha that would come up with any were to actually tell him toof step dow. >> tucker: so why doesn't -- apart from what you think of trump or maybe you believe trump is a secret agent working for vladimir putin, but eventr if yu believe that, why wouldn't -- and you are liberal, whyn wouldn't you be very worried about a prosecutor who is operating wholly outside the system and accountable to nobody? if you really cared about democracy, that would terrify you, wouldn't it? >> we have seen the left change their view on all kinds of things, tucker. this is the party that at one point cared about abuseth of law enforcement tactics.

they cared about the things you just mentioned, accountability, making sure that there was accountability and democracy and that someone had to answer to someone else. but when it comes to donald trump, they are quite happy to throw all of that onwh the other side. it's very frustrating to people like me who've been trying to write about mr. mueller's probe in an objective way and look at the evidence out there in an objective way and say look, would anybody like to see what happened to carter page happen to anybody else on the basis of the opposition research they used?e the democrats should be very worried that a future justice department might do this to one of their candidates, and no one should want that. >> tucker: i will defend that candidate if it ever happens. i mean it. i think it's very wrong. w kim strassel, thank you for that perspective. i appreciate it. michael caputo was an advisor to the trump campaign. he's had his own experiences with the mueller investigation. he joins us tonight. thank you for coming on. i held judgment on mueller for over a year. i wanted to think the best, former head of the fbi.

watching what happened friday at roger stone's home has ripped the veil off the guy, that he is an authoritarian nutcase to do something like that. were you surprised by it? >> after what we saw that went down with paul manafort, detail by detail without any cameras present, it matches exactly what happened to paul.or i think just like when it happened to paul, people are going to complain and scream toj the high heavens about how soviet this tacticre is. it will do nothing. it will fall on deaf ears. robert mueller and by the way the department of justice hasea verified that they can do this to anyone in america. i was surprised, i guess, for a minute but the one thing i can't figure out is, you know, the camera is going to serve roger stone better than it does the mueller team because look what we were all able to witness. >> tucker: that's a really good point.

so are you convinced, as i am becoming, that mueller did this for a reason, not just because he doesn't like roger stone.id i should note i have texted a lot with roger stone, as many people in the media have. stone was always saying things a like i know mueller is reading my texts and being provocative. he clearly was reading his texts. but that this was designed to send a message to other people mueller is investigating that if you step out of line, we will hurt you. >> right, and i'm a witness in this jackpot, but my attorney, who is former new york state attorney general, former u.s. prosecutor, told me you can flip from a witness to a subject to a target in the blink of an eye with a group like this. anybody who they have talked to, i think there's -- a couple three dozen who they've interviewed. this was a message sent to us that at any time you can get a knock on your door and 29 men will come with automatic weapons, which, by the way, not

only more than they sent to go c after bin laden, it's 29 more men than they sent to benghazi to pick up and defend our own men. >> tucker: i'm not defending putin. putin has never done anything like this in this country, i have to say. we don't live in terror of putin doing this here. >> you know what? he does it all the time in russia. for all of us who have been concerned about russia's involvement in our elections, we have to realize that we are now living in russia. this is what vladimir putin does. i lived there for seven years before vladimir putin took over. it was happening then too. that's where we are today. >> tucker: well, i don't want to live in that country at all.. >> the one thing i'm really concerned about is roger's funding. that's why i'm trying to help him raise money. roger stone,og gofundme.com. he's going to have to come up with $100,000 every two months until this thing is over because he's fighting it to the end. >> tucker: it's unbelievable. michael caputo, thank you very much.

we have a fox news alert. police say five police officers have been shot in the city of houston. trace gallagher's on the story and joins us now. trace. s >> this was a narcotic warrant being served on a southeast houston home and police have confirmed one suspect was inside the home and a neighbor says she heard at least a dozen rounds being fired. houston police have confirmedbo five officers were shot, two of them are critical. three are stable. all five have been taken to memorial hermann hospital which is a level 1 trauma center. police say one suspect is dead, and despite numerous reports of one or more other suspects being barricaded inside the residence, police have no word on otherct suspects. in fact, s.w.a.t. teams are on scene using robotic cameras to search for any other potential suspects. we should note a neighbor did say earlier that he could hear police trying to negotiate with somebody inside, which is not to say there was someone inside.

along with houston police, the harris county sheriff's department and department of public safety are also on scene, and texas governor greg abbott is allocating any needed resources. five officers shot, two of them are critical. three of them are stable. tucker. >> tucker: trace gallagher, thanks a lot for that sad story. the 2020 campaign is ramping up, and the leading candidates are racing left so quickly it will make your head spin. mark steyn has been watching carefully and he joins us with his assessment next. the latest innovation from xfinity

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presidential field is big and getting bigger. kamala harris of california has tried to be the most left-wing of the candidates. suddenly that's not so easy. hillary clinton has said she hasn't ruled out a run. expect an announcement any day or a nonannouncement. in a sunday interview, the ceo of starbucks, howard schultz, said he might run as an independent. he was immediately attacked by democrats as the jill stein equivalent. chaos, basically. fox washington correspondent kristin fisher has been following it and joins us tonight. >> kamala harris spend a lot of time in the speech going after president trump and his policies. i she called his wall a medieval vanity project and she called his policy of separating families at the border a human rights abuse. as for her own policies, though, she is proposing tax reform that would reverse republican tax cuts, criminal justice reform. she says she's running so no parent has to teach their young son that police officers and i'm quoting "stop him, arrest him, chase him, or kill him because of his race."

she also wants universal pre-k and debt-free college and medicare for all. on that last point, another possible 2020 contender is calling free health care as false a promise as the wall. the starbucks billionaire howard schultz is infuriating many democrats by threatening to run as an independent which could split the anti-trump vote and help him win a second term. >> i am seriously thinking of running for president. i will run as a centrist s independent outside of the 2-party system. we are living at a most fragile time. not only the fact that this president is not qualified to be the president but the fact that both parties are consistently not doing what's necessary on behalf of the american people and are engaged every single day in revenge politics. >> since we are speaking of revenge politics, hillary clinton may be considering running again.

cnn is reporting that clinton has told people she's not closing the doors to the idea of running in 2020 but there are other reports that say that that report is not true. so it's still a long shot, but tucker, i think it is safe to say that president trump wouldn't mind running against her again in 2020. >> tucker: that would be a remarkable race. we would cover that gladly. kristin fisher, thank you very much. author and columnist mark steyn has spent endless hours at the dog track and always wins, so he's perfectly qualified to handicap all political races, including this one. mark, great to see you. >> bad mechanical hillary is not going to run.>> we are not going to see a third hillary clinton term. >> tucker: who jumps out? does anyone jump out as interesting, as saying something unexpected? maybe the trump of the cycle on the left. >> what's interesting i think about this cycle, that's another

reason why hillary is all wrong for it, is that this time around and it's unfortunate for bernie sanders himself, but actually everyone is running as bernie.an if you look at kamala harris' platform, free prekindergarten for everybody. even if you think that's a good idea, do you want a secretary oo pre-k in washington organizing that for 350 million people? the universal health care, the universal free college. this is a party that is actually moving left at an astonishing rate, and the difference between now and then when hillary ran is that basically everyone is bernie. everyone is bernie and there's no room for hillary.an even old joe biden, when he stands up there, he doesn't even know the term systemic racism. he keeps calling it systematic racism.

systematic is what slavery was. all of the editors clean it up for him in his speech, but he's basically trying to be bernie sanders too. >> tucker: poor guy. he is too old to be woke. what about bernie himself? does he have a shot in a field full of look-alikes? >> well, that's an interesting question. i happen to be, every so often, in the adjoining booth, in my corner of northern new england,o at the diner to bernie's key advisors. they actually figure out that if you are as old as bernieo and running against a 74-year-old incumbent is your best shot, it's an interesting question. whether the reason bernie can get away with full-blownn socialism is because he is so old and that when you actually hang it around someone in the relative bloom of youth like kamala harris, whether that doesn't actually make the full horror of the unaffordable

lavishness of the programs seem more evident. >> tucker: that's a deep point. i think it's easier to take from bernie because you at least say well, he's kind of a legitimate soviet. he's old enough.be >> he is like the genial old uncle. seems less menacing. as for the starbucks guy, when polls are closing in florida at 7:00, that's the only place in america where the lines are longer and slower than starbucks. this is a natural career move for that guy, i would say. >> tucker: he's the world's biggest operator of homeless shelters now. great to see you. >> thanks a lot, tucker. >> tucker: good to see you. we are often told there are no problems at the border. there is no border crisis and you are a nutcase if youre think otherwise. tell that to the latest mass caravan headed straight for southern border. we will get details on that with buck sexton after the break. th n

after the

>> tucker: gavin newsom recently replaced jerry brown as the governor of california. you maybe read he has designated his wife as the state's first partner. that's how hip and modern gavin newsom is. that's not all. he's also deciding he doesn't want to live in the governor's mansion in sacramento anymore. instead, newsom is moving into a $3.7 million estate in an upscale suburb. newsom has kids and he calls the neighborhood more kid friendly than sacramento. the problem is gavin newsom cares deeply about climate change. he says that a lot. he cares a lot more about it than youca do. he's a really goodhe person. for an ardent environmentalist like newsom, the california governor's residence is ad perfect place to live, within walking distance of the state capitol. a no-emission commute. his new home is an hour round-trip for the entire entourage, the frosted window suburban entourage. it's a big carbon footprint. there goes the planet.

there's another problem too, maybe a bigger problem. newsom also caress about diversity. he talks about diversity a lot.b probably about as much as he talks about climate change.rs for diversity aficionados, sacramento is heaven. in 2002, harvard university and "time" magazine described sacramento as "america's most diverse city." the city's public school students speak 43 languages. 40% don't speak english at home. you would think gavin newsom would want his kids right there in the center of all that diversity. but no. instead, he's moving them to one of the least diverse neighborhoods in the entire state of california. h it's a place where the demographics look like 1950. in other words, it's very, very white. which is something that newsom thinks is very, very bad. or says he does. but does he really believe it? not really, because he's moving his family there. you're starting to figure out how this works?au you make policies that totally change the country. then you attack anyone who criticizes those policies asge evil.. and then force them to be quiet or fire them if they won't.

and then you personally move as far as you can away from the effects of those policies, preferably behind a wall somewhere. that's the trick. to be fair, it's not just gavin newsom who does this. w they all do that. all of them. well, it's well established at least on tv that there's no crisis at all on the u.s.-mexico border. the very idea of that is insane. >> trump and republicans continue to lie about basic facts. the truth is there's no crisis at the border that justifies aut government shutdown. >> there is no crisis at the border. you've got to start from the place that everything theme president is saying is fiction. so it's very hard to negotiate with someone who's dealing with a made-up problem. >> tucker: those guys that literally say anything. there's nothing they wouldn't say. now they're saying it's aay made-up problem. it's all just a fever dream, a product of your deranged imagination. but wait. there is that 12,000 person caravan coming up right now from central america, and mexico's

neww governor is making it easy for them to get here. or did we dream that up? buck sexton is a former cia analyst. he's been on the border and joins us with an update. it's made up, this crisis on the border. does that comport with what you've seen? >> members of congress that say that either haven't been to the border or haven't taken the time to speak to members of border patrol or immigrations and customs enforcement about the many layers of crisis that are occurring right now the border. on one front, you have another increase in very serious medical cases. this is problematic in a number of levels. you people showing up, as we know, there are two children who died in custody. they were ill when they entered custody, but there are many people who are now coming into border patrol custody.he in many cases, they are surrendering, so they are actually seeking out border patrol. knowing that they are goingy to get medical services. they are having to set up screening facilities, frontline screening facilities for borders patrol today with people showing up with h1n1 flu, scabies, a whole litany of different communicable, very serious

diseases that they have to be treated for, courtesy of the taxpayer, that often requires taking them to the nearest hospital which takes one or twot depending on the sector, border patrol agents to accompany them to the hospital. all of this paid for by uncle sam. then you also have to deal with the drain on resources. border patrol guys are saying look, we have enough problems as it is. they had close to 30,000 family units alone. it doesn't include unaccompanied minors, people trying to cross illegally the old-fashioned way by themselves, that are showing up and turning themselves in. what's happening is border patrol is being turned into a de facto red cross on our border for people who are coming up with serious illnesses, diseases.. people who are eight or nine months pregnant. this is happening in increasingl numbers every month. the problem at the border is getting worse while people are on tv saying there's no problem. >> tucker: it's not happening in the neighborhood. we need to bring this awesomeness you describe into the neighborhoods of people making policies. let me ask you, since you've spoken recently to people who work there enforcing immigration

law. do they think it's a crisis? >> no doubt at all. they are certain as a crisis. it's getting worse.o when you look at the strain and drain on overall border resources. that includes the enormous andur now even bigger, because of the shutdown, backlog and the courts. it includes the wait that the asylum system has not been addressed so -- congress has to pass laws. if you understand the system, there many different ways to game it. you can come into the country effectively and skip the entire line and stay in the united states, and even though you won't get asylum in the end, you'll be in the interior of the u.s.ho it has to be addressed bylu congress. there's also a crisis of lawlessness. one thing that i think that's interesting as soon you see these people on tv saying you can't lie to the fbi. you can't lie to the federal government when it has to do with the mueller probe. the same laws apply. the same laws about lying to federal officers, border patrol and immigrations and customs a enforcement. people are showing up, renting, borrowing children from other

people. that's fraud, tucker. it's illegal. >> tucker: how many of these do we prosecute? >> under 100 for the last 12 months, of the estimated thousands that are probably occurring.t they don't really know. didn't have the time. they don't do dna checks at the border.kn they don't have the ability to process. they have overwhelmed the system not just with medical request but with lawlessness because u.s. attorneys won't even take t up the cases now of -- as i was told, 30 something-year-olds saying they are teenagers so they can skip to the front of the line. that's illegal too. the same law that sends peoplehe like stone possibly to jail for alleged lying to federal agents can -- >> tucker: none of those people volunteered for the trump campaign. if they had, they would be t in jail right now. probably smart not to do that. buck sexton, great to see you as always. the arrest of roger stone is being touted as proof positive of russian collusion. does it actually show that? we will unpack it after the break.

♪ >> tucker: the fbi sent enough firepower to roger stone's house on friday to overthrow a third world government. his arrest is, needless to say, being taken as proof that russia stole america's lunch money or burned our toast or egged our cars or subverted our democracy or something.

this past weekend, as she often has, nancy pelosi speculated that russia must have something on the president. >> what do the russians have on donald trump? politically, personally, or financially. what is putin blackmailing president trump with? personally, politically, or financially. i asked the question, what do the russians have on donald trump politically, personally, or financially? the russians must have something personally, politically, or financially on president trump. >> tucker: over on pbs, eric swalwell of california claimed that trump is a proven russian agent. couldn't explain quite how. here's the exchange. >> at what point do you draw the line and not accuse the a president of the united states without any evidence of being an agent of russia? >> he has betrayed our country. i don't say that lightly. i worked as a prosecutor for seven years. >> betraying the country. we want evidence before you say

that. >> he works on their behalf. after it was revealed the russians were attacking our democracy, he went to a press conference and said russia, keep doing it. >> we are familiar with that sequence of events. as a prosecutor, that wouldn't be evidence in court. you know the difference between hard evidence and circumstantial evidence. i'm still not hearing the evidence that he's an agent of russia. >> i think it's pretty clear. it's all hiding in plain sight.. >> tucker: hiding in plain sight. does roger stone's indictment prove once and for all that all these people are agents of vladimir putin? glenn greenwald joins us tonight. is that, can we say now conclusively that the russian collusion narrative is true in the wake of this indictment of rogerly stone? >> no, it actually demonstrates if anything the opposite. let me address those horrific mccarthyite clips you just played from nancy pelosi and eric swalwell claiming that

trump is controlled by the kremlin, something that we heard throughout the '50s and '60s lodged against democrats with the same amount of evidence, which was none. in almost every important instance, including right now in venezuela, giving arms to the ukrainians who are opposed to the russians, bombing the russian client state in syria, imposing incredibly harsh sanctions on russian oligarchs, trump has acted contrary to the interests of the kremlin. the most important example of which is probably trump's very vehement denunciations of the germans for buying natural gas from russia, one of their mostf important exports on which their economy depends rather than buying it from the u.s. really weird behavior for somebody who is being blackmailed by vladimir putinei and keeps doing exactly the opposite of what putin wants. the roger stone indictment is like all of the other mueller indictments, and that is the number of people that mueller

has indicted for what the original mueller letter said he was supposed to find out, namelr whether there was criminal coordination between the trump campaign on the one hand and russian government on the othert hand with respect to the 2016 election, that number isnd zero. that was the number before roger stone's indictment. that continues to be the number after. it's not an investigation that's complete, but it's coming up on two years. it's a year and eight months. i don't know what the futurein holds. maybe mueller will someday indict people for that. maybe he will cure cancer. w but as a journalist, all i canan do is say what has happened up until this point, and up until this point, there been zero indictments on thatti core question. >> tucker: very quick. why would, if the mueller peopl. sent dozens of armed agents to the house of an unarmed middle aged man to do something that could've been done through lawyers, why does no one in the press say wait a second. a that seems like overkill.l. >> cnn was not only not objective. they were super excited by it..

they sent one of their correspondents that has connections, maybe even worked for the fbi, to cover it like i was the o.j. chase. this is one of the problems. the press has completely given up its adversarial role when itt comes questioning prosecutorial power, what the cia does and what the fbi does. robert mueller is the almost like this godlike figure, and as long as you do abuses to people they don't like, like roger stone, they will sit and cheer. >> tucker: yeah, i think you y are exactly right. we should push back. i hope i have enough integrity to push back when the next prosecutor does it to someone i don't like. i really do. glenn greenwald, thank you very much. richard goodstein is a lawyer and former advisor to bill and hillary clinton and he joins us tonight. i just can't -- nancy pelosi and eric swalwell are telling me, and i know them both, that now we have the goods, the indictment of roger stone, which to the untrained eye has nothing to do with russian collusion. but to the russian collusion e truthers, it's proof positive.

what am i missing about this indictment? >> first of all we had evidence of collusion from paul manafort's lawyers when he disclosed secret polling data to russian military intelligence. so that's collusion right there. it enabled russia, if they were so inclined, and there's evidence they were, they could identify what the swing voters were and where to go after them. the intelligence community in the u.s. has said that's exactly what they did. >> tucker: there is no intelligence community. >> every intelligence agency -- so you dispute the fact there are intelligence agencies. i bet all of your viewers take issue with that. >> tucker: there is no intelligence community. they are not 17 separate -- >> i didn't say 17. >> tucker: there is no>> consensus on anything in real life. there is no consensus on who hacked podesta's emails. let's not pretending we know things we don't. >> i heard your guest earlier in the show, the vehemence about

how roger stone was treated. about how horrible mueller is. have we seen 1 ounce of that addressed by donald trump or his minions towards the russians for interfering with our election? i would say no. that proves to me what nancy pelosi is saying, which is that something is going on. why would there be 100 contacts and not one of them more than a dozen trump people, why did they lie time after time after time? >> tucker: let me ask you as an american. w they are two separate questions. russian interference and what the federal government just did to roger stone. as an american, presumably you care about civil liberties, arec you okay with that? here's a guy who's not a flight risk, who they've been investigating, spying on him for over a year, couldn't destroy evidence. it's ridiculous. are you okay with sending dozens of armed people to his house to roust him barefoot? >> the evidence is that there weren't dozens.rm there may have been a dozen. i discount what roger stone says.

>> tucker: i saw the tape that they set up with cnn. >> they were heavily armed people. >> tucker: why would you need an automatic weapon to arrest roger stone? >> i don't know that mueller is the one who says how this many people as opposed to two or three. secondly, i think mueller is probably sick of what he got from paul manafort which is attempts to destroy evidence ang obstruct justice and change m people's testimony. he saw evidence that roger stone was doing the exact same thing. that's where -- he said i've had it. >> tucker: is it the prosecutor's job to punish people preemptively? >> make sure they don't dodo it again. >> tucker: intimidate and frighten so they obey. >> freeze him so he can do d -- >> tucker: they brought him in and they let him out on bail in 10 minutes. they did this to scare the crap out of him and tell the rest of us if you disobey this unelected god figure whose power is uncontested by anybody, then we're going to hurt you. >> he's not elected. he's a republican. the voters ultimately electedd

the people -- >> tucker: firing him. >> the acting attorney general could.d. >> tucker: democrats say if you fire him, he will be -- will be impeached innately. this is someone democrats say have no oversight by an elected official. does it bother you? seems like the opposite of democracy. >> has oversight over the justice department. they fund it and they can bring people in for questioning. >> tucker: what would happen if you tried to fire robert mueller? you'd be accused of working for vladimir putin. i don't think you are for democracy. >> i worked for someone who stood up to richard nixon. >> tucker: it was a different time. we are out of time unfortunately. richard goodstein, great to see you. thank you. it's easier than ever to be ruined by the crowd rushing to judgment. how do you survive in an age where the online mob roves free? mike rowe joins us after the break. ♪

since you're heading off to school, i got you this brita. dad... i just got a zerowater. but we've always used brita. it's two stage-filter... doesn't compare to zerowater's 5-stage. this meter shows how much stuff, or dissolved solids, gets left behind. our tap water is 220. brita? 110... seriously? but zerowater- let me guess. zero? yup, that's how i know it is the purest-tasting water. i need to find the receipt for that. oh yeah, you do.

♪ >> tucker: you may have read about a wave of layoffs in the media last week. more than 1,000 people lost their jobs, mostly in online news. some of the biggest losses were at buzzfeed. about 220 employees got fired there. buzzfeed is run by a guy called jonah peretti. peretti isn't just a media ceo. he's an icon in the tech world. he is a living embodiment of the values of modern big business. he first became famous a number of years ago when he attacked nike for running sweatshops.

the attention from that helped him break into the media. from there, he helped found "the huffington post" and eventually buzzfeed. as a boss, he transitioned smoothly from the leftism of his youth to the new and far more lucrative version of woke capitalism that so many ceos now practice. peretti spent a lot of time extolling the virtues of inclusivity and diversity and attacking conservatives as racist. at the same time, perretti crushed the efforts of its own staff to unionize. he argued it wouldn't be right for buzzfeed because unions are only good for "replaceable employees." buzzfeed staff were apparently so special they didn't need unions. turns out they did. now more than 200 of buzzfeed's employees understand they were in fact quite replaceable. after firing them, perretti tried to weasel his way out of paying his employees, threatening their unused paid time off until the public outcry became so great that he finally caved and paid. this is very common, perretti told them.

it's true. greedy, stupid bosses who buy a pass from the business press by mouthing progressive platitudes are indeed very common. hithey are everywhere, unfortunately. what's rare are humane bosses who care about the people who work for them. we could use more of those. mike rowe has a new scholarship program trying to send young americans to trade schools. in doing that, he's willing to work with a bunch of different organizations, some of which not everybody likes. for doing that, he's been accused of "selling out." mike rowe joins us tonight. so mike, i mean this in the best way. i like it when you are attacked, because unlike most people get attacked on social media, you write these long, very thoughtful replies that actually inform us. this is no different. what happened here? >> thank you. full disclosure. i sold out years ago. in the middle of the night on the qvc cable shopping channel, my very first job in tv.

>> tucker: is that your? >> yeah, yeah. i was singing in the opera back in the late '80s and i got an audition for qvc and the next thing i knew, i was selling things in the middle of the night that i could neither explain nor justify.he we all do what we have to n do l make a go of it. here in 2018, i can't tell you anything you don't know about cognitive dissonance or the transitive property or confirmation bias. all of that stuff is at work right now with the big fat umbrella of logical fallacies o spread over top of it. i see it in my world every single day. even on a nonprofit charity where i give away half a million dollars a year to kids who want to apply for a work ethic scholarship. if i take money from a company or an individual who wants to help me in that effort, they need to comport with whatever list you have in your mind of approved networks, personalities, and causes. once upon a time, we distanced ourselves from people that we

didn't necessarily agree with. but today, we distance ourselves from people who sit too close to people with whom we disagree. this isn't headline news, but in my little world, six years ago it started when i had the temerity to talk to glenn beck and bill maher in the same week about the same topic. people's heads exploded. >> tucker: how do you respond? does reason work? you wrote a very, i thought, thoughtful, which people should -- it's on facebook. look it up. it's worth reading. a thoughtful response to someone who said you sold out. does it work? does reasont convince people anymore? >> look, facebook has its pros and cons. to be honest, one-on-one, i don'td know. i feel like today people are so dug in behind whatever position they espouse that you simply aren't going to convert. facebook is a public forum. i've got 5 million people on my page and the reason i take time

to try and have something that passes for thoughtful discourse is because it gets passed around. there are people out there in the middle who are willing in this case, for instance, to say maybe charles koch isn't theth person that i've heard he was. or maybe tucker carlson -- i'm going to get killed tonight. >> tucker: he is. he's definitely the man you thinkma he is. [laughter] >> i don't mind. to me, it's not a problem because i'm a public figure running a public charity. i can take a public platform and turn this kind of nonsense into what might be a thoughtful back-and-forth that might in fact change someone's mind. let's face it. it's also great publicity. it's hard to give away half a million dollars to the lens of work ethic. mikeroweworks.com right now if you want to apply for a work ethic scholarship. i am reduced to shameless plugs

on your show because i don't really know how else to put that message out there without inflaming somebody who's going to start the sentence with "mike rowe, always been a fan of yours but..." till you sat down with that son of a gun over there and said this. now all of a sudden you are on the naughty list forever. >> tucker: we believe reason and decency will reemerge. that's why you always have a space to shamelessly plug anything on this show. mike rowe, thank you very much. >> any time. i appreciate it. >> tucker: just think about the buzzfeed story. the ceo spent most of the last five years o telling you what a decent person he is and then mistreated his employees. that's the acid test. ots of people jump up and down, moral preening is definitely the coin of the realm at the moment. when you hear someone talking about how he is morally superior to you to you, check and see how he treats his employees. find out who his kids think of him.ab that's really the test. there's no other test.

that's it for us tonight. tune in every night at 8:00 p.m., the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness, and especially groupthink. try to break its factors if you can. we were back tomorrow. in the meantime, sean hannity live from new york city. >> sean: i always love that "dirty jobs" show. i always did all those jobs. that's a great show. mike is a great guy. tucker, great show. this is a fox news alert. we are now monitoring a very serious situation tonight out of houston. multiple police officers were shot while serving a narcotics warrant. the suspect is believed to be dead. we're going to keep you posted as this horrific story unfolds. we start tonight, though, with "hannity watch" on the deep state and turn to robert mueller's ongoing witch hunt. january 25th, 17 vehicles including two armored tactical trucks rolled into roger stone's fort lauderdale neighborhood. two dozen heavily armed