>> sandra: that was a tuesday morning for you! and >> bill: three hours. [laughs] >> sandra: thank you for joining us, everybody. we will see you back here tomorrow. "outnumbered" starts tomorrow dominic now. >> harris: reaction as as trump associate roger stern was leaving district court in washington a short time ago. after pleading not guilty to seven criminal counts brought against him by robert mueller's special counsel to secretion. the charges include lying to congress, obstruction of justice, and witness tampering. you are watching "outnumbered" on a fine tuesday. i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. town hall editor and fox news contributor, katie pavlich. former ohio senate democrat minority leader waving as always, capri cafaro. in the center seat, fox news contributor, cohost of "benson & harf" on fox news radio, guy benson himself. welcome. >> great to be back, fix for

having me! >> harris: we've been cooking up a bunch of news. >> guy: is very thoughtful of you. >> harris: shall be conservative with you >> guy: you are very kind and wonderful hosts. >> harris: thank you. in an interview last night with our sean hannity, rogers don't double down on his criticism of the mueller investigation alleging that mueller has a nefarious motive in targeting him. while declaring his innocence. >> i think it was meant to silence me. not only an effort to silence me, because i support donald trump and i have been a critic of the mueller investigation. i think donald trump is making america great again. he is my friend of 40 years. i have a great affection for him and his family. i am not going to testify against him, because i possess no negative information. there is no rush and collusion. this is a witch hunt. >> harris: at the white house yesterday, again, distanced itself from the stone indictment. >> the more that this goes on,

the more and more we see that none of these things have anything to do with the president. in roger stone's case, the charges of that indictment have literally nothing to do with the president and have to do with his communications with congres congress. in fact, the further we get into the process, the more and more we see that this has nothing to do with president trump. >> harris: the democrats say that the stone indictment shows a disturbing pattern in the trump campaign. watch. >> what it is all about is not just if they are lying, but what they are lying about. and what they are lying about is colluding with the russians. you can see that with stone, and wikileaks. you see that with cohen and the moscow tower. >> harris: so, capri, robert ray -- who was special counsel, and took over for kenneth starr with the clinton

investigation -- told me on set yesterday that what it's all about is if they find there is no there there we need to move on. in this could be rubbing a brother shortly. and you say? >> capri: it's time for us to get back to work. let's hope that's the case. to speak to what ron just said, i think this is where a lot of democrats are coming from. for every indictment -- and i want to see clearly, i'm not somebody jumping up and down like many democrats. i think the process needs to take its course. but what ron wyden is saying, essentially, is that with each one of these indictments it's showing some sort of a pattern because it's all generally about lying under oath. the question is, where they lying under oath? is there something they are specifically covering up? but to take it one step further, it's because they're covering up collusion -- we don't know that. >> harris: katie, why they are lying and also who is lying? also, could the be the

investigation of the weights being handled? all of these are process crimes, not that they are not serious. >> katie: they are process crimes. the interesting thing to be is the way people have been indicted for lying to congress. what that means is that congressional investigators, lawmakers, referred them to the special counsel -- or at least help them, and said "this is the testimony we have. it's not consistent maybe with robert mueller was stating." you will make this mistake all the time, that going and testifying in front of congress would have consequences if you don't tell the truth. we have seen, in these cases, that they are going after perjury. going after not being consistent with the testimony, which is very rare and very hard to prove. this isn't just robert mueller going after these people for process crimes that aren't about the campaign or collusion with the russians, as ron wyden alleged -- without evidence, i would say. there is a combination here of congressional investigators handing over information to the mueller probe that have not ended up in the favor of these

campaign associates. if you so, guy, when you look at what they say about process crimes -- they come out of investigation and might never have been on the surface if it has not been for that investigation. what he say about that? >> guy: first of all, i get a kick out of stone saying, "i think this is about silencing me." if mueller is trying to silence robert stone, he is feeling miserable impurities on tv 24/7, it seems like. when you look at the litany of excuses from roger stone about his lying -- and we could talk about whether it's a process crime or proof somehow, or an indication of underlying nefarious behavior -- he is saying come on lying to congress, he misremembered small details that were inconsequential. >> harris: his attorney said it might have been because of the stress of the campaign, too. i'm just throwing that out there. >> guy: we can think about that, assess that statement on his part. what is less easily explained as the witness tampering. that's not a momentary lapse in judgment. >> harris: there is a thread

with that, paul manafort, too. >> capri: paul manafort and stone were partners for a number of years, as well. >> guy: they might be trying to save themselves as opposed to covering up some conspiracy of which there is no evidence. but the "what was me, i forgot a small detail, it's a witch hunt." if you are calling up and texting witnesses turn to influence their testimony, it's clear cut crime. >> melissa: i'm tired of everybody's talking points on both side. i think of a buddy on the couch probably feels that way. trying to drill down what's really going on here, what's illegal? if roger stone encouraged the russians to distribute emails -- or wikileaks, if you want to assume they are one and the same -- some people assume that, i don't know. he encourages them to distribute emails, that's not illegal. if the campaign asked a foreign entity to distribute emails, that would be illegal. that's obviously what they are trying to get at, here. through roger stone, even though he wasn't part of the campaign -- i want to know the

answer to that question. i want to say, "did you ask wikileaks to do this? that the president asked?" but then i'm struck by the idea that the democrats paid russians to create the dossier. so now we are back to -- >> harris: that's why you have to look at both sides. you can't just look at what republicans do. >> melissa: that's asking a foreign entity to do something to help in the campaign. that seems like the crime they are trying to circle on the right operate if it's a crime commits a crime on both sides. >> katie: is a massive double standard between the way trump associates and people who didn't work on the trump campaign officially -- as roger stone did -- getting caught up in this mueller investigation. you keep hearing this argument, that it's a pattern of behavior. sure, you can say there is a pattern of behavior of people who work in the trump campaign but still not, but if there had been the same judgment of the clinton campaign there would be a long pattern of behavior -- bd behavior -- of colluding with the ukrainians to go after donald trump. paying for the dossier. there is double standard and how they come up with this pattern

of behavior, who is doing what. >> harris: capri is agreeing with this. by the way, it was black male for stone and kelly prayed that's what you're talking about. i want to jump to the next point. don't care about whether or not this had anything to do with president trump? they can adjudicate all these cases. the witness tampering is a thread that we have seen among some of these accused people. so that is a serious crime. some of the others are serious, too. that may or may not have anything to do with collusion or anything they are looking at the president four. is it enough to say -- as manafort back and 2016 to the netflix film crew -- roger's relationship with truck has been so interconnected that it was hard to define what is rr and what is donald." 2016. mother has nothing to do with whether or not -- that's some of the talking points on the left. >> capri: but you could say the same thing about michael cohen. and now he is being distanced -- >> harris: who was surreptitiously recording at least one of his clients that we know about.

>> capri: a violation of attornment attorney-client privilege. that's what they are trained to do, they're trying to figure out -- we will not know until this comes out, if it ever comes out in a transparent manner, which i will probably talk about later. but we won't know. it's also vacation. what they are trying to do, it seems, is to figure out that thread. to identify president trump as the director of all of this. >> melissa: that would be legit. he cannot, the president cannot -- or any part of his campaign -- -- to do something on behalf of them, to release this wikileaks to help them. they can't do that, it would be illegal. my question is just, we know the democrats did that. so... that's why i don't get it. i'm not a lawyer, under string to understand. >> guy: andy mccarthy, our collie, was a lawyer. a prosecutor. he has talked extensively and written about how there are very specific and early-defined climes that they are supposedly looking into in mueller's

office. that includes a criminal conspiracy to work with the russians to hack, for example, hillary clinton's emails or the dnc emails. or john podesta's. i think there is a separate category of concerns about political collusion. they may not technically be a crime, but it would be -- if it is proven, that the highest reach of the trump campaign did coordinate the release of these emails or something like that wikileaks -- i.e., the russians -- i think it would be a very serious thing. it would be a serious problem for trump. but we are nowhere near that point right now. but it seems like a lot of the media is covering this as if we are already there. >> katie: and they have been for a long time. >> guy: yeah. >> harris: there is no shortage of jumping the shark, which it is what you are saying. former vice president joe biden says he does not want to run a "fool's errand" as he comes closer to deciding whether he wants to campaign for president in 2020. new polling shows that he may have a very good reason to throw his hat in the ring. we will take a look.

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simple. easy. awesome. ♪ >> for people who mike out there who like their insurance, they don't get to keep it? >> the idea is that everybody gets access to medical care. you have to go through the process of going through written insurance committee, getting approval, going through the paperwork, all the delay that may require. who of us has not had a situation where you got to wait for approval and the doctor says, "i don't know if your insurance company is going to cover this?" let's eliminate all that. let's move on. >> melissa: democratic 2020 2020 contender kamala harris fully embracing single pair health care insurance at a town hall, saying she's willing to to eliminate private insurance as we know it to make it happen. harris became the first senate

democrat to support bernie sanders' medicare for all bill. the program is implemented would carry a very hefty price tag fo. all of you out there, a study released over the summer by george mason university estimate it would cost more than $3 trillion per year. that's about three fourths of this year's entire proposed federal budget. do the math. sanders and his supporters claimed the short term costs would eventually be offset by a more efficient system. we have we heard that before? house democratic caucus chair, kind of talking about it when he asks if he supports harris' proposal. >> i think it's too early to comment. one, on proposals being floated by any presidential candidate. certainly senator harris is somebody you have great respect for and she set a phenomenal rule out over the last week. democrats are united behind the principal that we should lower

health care costs for the american people. protecting people with pre-existing conditions, and begin a conversation with a focus on lowering the high cost of life-saving prescription drugs. >> melissa: capri, i wish what she was saying were true. i wish we could just blow off the process of approving things through insurance. i can't believe we are going through this again. let's start with the cost. when she talks about -- what she is talking about would cost $3 trillion. when obamacare came out on the president said it would go down by $1,250 per year, per family, i said, "that's not true. the other can't do math or is not telling the truth." i was attacked for that at the time. guess what? premiums cannot go down. the math didn't work. $3 trillion a year -- if you confiscate the wealth of every billionaire in this country and you throw them in jail, if you

tax everyone completely, you can't come up with $3 trillion. isn't it cruel to dangle this in front of people as if it's possible? >> capri: this won't be the first nor will it be the last time that politicians or those trying to be elected put something out there that sounds great on paper, sounds great in a 30-second ad, but isn't necessarily possible old plausible when it comes implementation. i have spent the better part of my adult life and health policy. i'm a licensed social worker, i trained in hospital systems, free clinics, and i authored the prior authorization reform law for health care in the state of ohio. i think we would all agree that people shouldn't have to go through the red tape. everybody should have access to health care services. but this is lala land. we would have to dismantle a system where the private sector is pervasive. not just an employer-based health insurance, but in medicaid where we have managed

to care in most states. and in medicare where medicare advantage also exists. that is a managed care system. we can't just blew the system u up. >> melissa: it wouldn't work. even if you blew up the system and you took away insurance companies, you still can't give every human being every health care possible -- every treatment possible, right when they needed, unless the doctors are going to work for free for the hospitals are going to give away stuff for free. or somebody's going to be doing it for free. >> harris: would you want it for free? >> katie: then there is no doctors. >> guy: the government will ration care. they will be longer wait times. we seen this in canada in the u.k. >> harris: not really free. time is everything. >> guy: the federal government spent $4 trillion last year 2018. we ran an $800 billion deficit almost. so we are already in trouble paying for what we are already spending. you add 75 or 80% of that

budget, the only way you can come close to paying for that is by taxing not just the rich, not just millionaires and billionaires, massive -- i'm not exaggerating -- huge tax increases on working people, middle-class americans. i went to the get in exchange for that? more than 150 million people get their current health care plan and situation uprooted completely. they have what they have right now. remember, if you like it you can keep it? 150 million people would lose their current situation and go to a government-run plan. they think the government will have some sort of efficient red tape-free scenario? spew what i want to ask katie a question about where you just work fairness to the american people. hardworking american people who may not have the time to sit down and crunched the numbers. but what they do is they hear the rhetoric over, "well, could it be for me and it bidding on the planet?" and we know that it can't be. even our little planet of

america. >> katie: health care is a big topic. he comes in number one in polling for what people are concerned about. it is not necessarily because they want to single-payer system, it's because their premiums have increased. one of the most dishonest things that people like kamala harris and bernie sanders essay about this is that everybody has a right to access health care. access to health insurance -- especially government-run. single pair is a nice way of saying government run health care or bureaucratic health care. obamacare has proved this. having health insurance doesn't give you access to any kind of medical care. you talked about the rationing. doctors have been retiring early. and oh three do you personally have decided not to go to medical school because of obamacare. you can magnify that significantly when it comes to the government deciding to take care of health care. the bureaucracy -- yes, there are problems in the health system now. absolutely. but if you think is going to get better by the government taking it over, i do think it will be no red tape and paper work as kamala harris is talking about, i've got a boat to sell you. a bridge to sell you.

>> harris: meanwhile, former president joe biden is making his presence felt in the liberal bastion of broward county, florida. during an event last night billed as an evening with vice president joe biden, he told the fort lauderdale audience is closing in on deciding on a 2020 presidential run. but he take a methodical approach, saying, "the answer is i'm running the traps on this. i don't want to make this a fool's errand. i am a lot closer than i was before christmas and will make a decision soon." a new "washington post"/"abc news" poll shows that biden and senator kamala harris are neck and neck but still in single digits, with biden holding a slight lead. when voters are asked whom they would choose, if the democratic primaries were held today, 43% say they are undecided with no name -- by the way, i will add to the copy little bit -- popping out of the single digits. some of those people have almost supreme recognizability. a lot.

joe biden has coupled with a little likability or more. how does that play a role in all this? b6 i think biden and the team around him understands, because he was the vice president of the united states for years, many americans know who he is. when you give people an offering of a bunch of names, they might say, "i know that guy. it's years away, let's say him in a poll." jeb bush was the republican nominee at this point. >> harris: high name recognition. >> guy: you could just throw these numbers out as a pure predictor. but biden has a lot going for him this time. the argument he's going to make -- and i talked to a democrat who thinks he's going to announce in the next two or three weeks, leaning towards yes. the case he can make the democratic voters desperate to win this election and be president trump is "i can hold to give the people who voted for hillary, and i could peel off a few of the people who voted for trump." some of the democrats feel -- >> harris: can he get to

burning people? that was a growing -- >> guy: hillary got a number of them, but -- >> guy: but the bernie lane is split amongst millions of people. he's going to be singularly on his own in this lane unless somebody like sherrod brown runs from ohio. he was younger than joe biden and offers the same kind of thing. >> harris: let's take a look at this polling from abc. donald trump wins the republican nomination, 28% would vote for the current president. 14% would consider it. 56% won't vote for trump. what do you make of it? >> melissa: 56% of republicans in that pole? >> harris: no. >> melissa: that makes a lot more sense. i just don't see any way that trump doesn't get his same people back together, and everyone who voted the last time around. >> harris: is not enough? >> melissa: no matter what. it does end up being enough like it was last time. it feels like we are going in

that direction. we are too far out to know at this point in time, but it's that problem on the left of splitting off the folks in all different directions. if you feel like you are not represented, you are a disaffected and the pole. >> harris: what about the argument the democrats always come together in the end? the difference here is that president trump isn't really necessarily going to run against anyone of them. he's going to run with what he has now. >> katie: he will run on his record. while democrats so far, as we've seen -- like kamala harris, kirsten gillibrand -- are running on identity politics, he sang, "you can call everyone deplorable, racist, and say this country is falling to apart at the seams when it comes to our social fabric -- but i've been getting things done for real people, real hispanic and black on employment, and doing things people can actually say. so if you want to talk about it all day long, here are our results." >> harris: moving on.

hecklers attacking howard schultz prayed he wants to run as an independent, he is flowing footing that. democrats saying it will harm their chances of retaking the white house. we will talk more about that coming up. and bipartisan talks set to begin tomorrow on border security. can lawmakers reach a deal that involves a wall? mark and center public and still support the president if there's another shutdown? stay with us. >> you have to give and take. i told the president that. i've told it to senator mcconnell, he understands that. willie, by the 15th, be able to bridge those differences? i whooped for a year to try and avoid where we are today. ♪ eel like your day never started. get going with carnation breakfast essentials®. it has protein, plus 21 vitamins and minerals including calcium and vitamin d, to help your family be their best. carnation breakfast essentials®.

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but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. >> melissa: admit a temporary truce in the partial government shutdown, a panel of house and senate lawmakers from both parties set to meet tomorrow to begin negotiations on border

security, including president trump's call for more than $5 billion in border wall funding. the talks come of that as of february 15th deadline that would trigger another shutdown. the panel consisting of nine democrats and the republicans, the white house yesterday saying that president trump is hopeful for a deal and does not want another shutdown. >> as the president has indicated on a number of occasions, they could get this done in 15 minutes. we agree on the fundamentals that border security is important. we agree on the fact that there is a problem, and we should do something about it. so let's spend some time over the next three weeks, let's get it done. the president has opened the government on the basis that democrats have signaled to us that they're willing to actually get serious about a real deal and get serious about fixing the problem of the border, including funding for a border wall. >> melissa: but republican senator john kennedy says the new deal must prioritize border security. watch this. >> it depends on the compromise is.

if it's very little wall, and almost all amnesty, i'm not going to support it. there may be a time, may be, at some point in the future, to talk about substantial amnesty. but we have had six amnesties since 1986. every time, they tell us, "if you just do one more, we will secure the border." there's been a 30-year bipartisan refusal by both big government republicans and ritz-carlton democrats to refuse to secure the border. >> melissa: democratic be possible as the debate drags on. watch. >> well, i think there is a growing sentiment on both sides -- democrats and republicans -- that we've got to get beyond this mess. if so many other things to do, including a new round of appropriations for next year after we finish what we were supposed to do for this year. many of us are champing at the bit to get to work. that's why we are sent here. to be caught up in this problem,

a 35-2 government shutdown over the president's campaign promise, i think people are losing their patients on both sides of the aisle. >> melissa: in the meantime, politico reports that senate republicans are signaling no appetite for another shutdown with some even considering veto-proof legislation. katie? i'm afraid to get hopeful. [laughter] i have heard so many people in the past 24 hours say that if you look at the panel and you look at the names of the people that have gotten together, that it feels like it might be a group that can do some horse trading and get something done. i could cry with happiness, but i feel like -- >> katie: they may! the gang of 17. nine placita 17. we will just have to see the people running the show here are not necessarily -- the person running the show has been nancy pelosi. we'll have to look at the house and see -- them on the far left, as most who have gotten the attention and the cycle. but those who are in swing districts, there is new polling

showing that these moderate democrats, these democrats that are freshman -- and we heard about this during the shutdown -- their constituents have been pressuring them to get some kind of deal. if it comes together with something in the senate, and they can negotiate in the house. but nancy pelosi is the one who's going to make the decision whether she's going to continue to say she's not interested in a wall or barrier despite republicans, democrats, and the house and senate voted for this type of security in the past. i'm not hopeful that it's not going to get bogged down. >> melissa: come on! >> katie: the bigger conversations about amnesty, when you have to turn off the spigot of flow. you look at the numbers, we are paying $5 billion for beds to house people who are coming here. there is $4.5 billion in the new proposal that the white house put out for an additional 52,000 beds for people who haven't even come here yet. that is on anticipation. you cannot continue to have this problem without actually solving it, because it's never going -- >> capri: can i be an optimist

really quickly on this? i think the fact that we do have a conference committee is a stark contrast to what we have seen previously. there's no question that both americans and congress do not have an appetite for it continued shutdown. >> harris: no doubt. >> capri: what i think it is -- and i've seen this happen and other legislative proceedings -- when you have something like a conference committee and they are also bringing in experts from border patrol, law-enforcement, et cetera, it's an opportunity to basically say, "you can hide behind it, we saw what the experts wanted. we want to do the experts wante wanted. take the politics out of it." >> katie: they have kind of already done that, though. >> harris: i'm going through the list of nine democrats in a republicans right now, and i just caught this on the house side -- the conferees, the democrats, all have a very undersea because they are from california. david price, barbara lee, andrew cuellar -- well, he's texas prepete hegseth are california.

one, two, three, four of the five on the outside. i find that fascinating. that would have a structure. kevin mccarthy, the house majority leader, is saying, "if they are beginning to discuss barriers, that's a positive. all shapes and forms." read back to that positivism you said. the >> guy: i think the base politics on all sides incentivize a nod-deal. i will be the pessimist on the couch. james clyburn said if you use ago, what if we gave trumpet $5.7 billion, the whole amount, for a smart wall? then steny hoyer, the number two in the house, said that barriers are part of the solution. take the $5.7 billion, appropriated, use half of it for barriers. >> harris: or whatever the experts tell you. >> guy: the democrats say they are in favor of barriers. displayed in strategic areas and call it a day. which of the democrats out of it? they get border security.

they keep telling us therefore border security. that should be the means unto the end, and the end among itself. give them the money and have -- >> harris: what office are you running for? >> nothing, believe him. i would lose every election. >> melissa: acting attorney general matthew whitaker speaking about the mueller probe, saying it is close to completion. his comments getting backlash from some democrats. was he right to make those remarks? and when will the mueller investigation end? will debate that next. >> i hope we can get the report from director mueller as soon as possible. ♪ let's take a look at some numbers:

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>> i'm comfortable that the decisions that were made are going to be reviewed, either through the various means we have -- but right now the investigation is close to be completed. i hope that we can get the report from director mueller as soon as we -- as possible. >> katie: made some news this morning. democratic senator richard blumenthal reacting to his comments. >> no responsible official of the department of justice would make those kinds of contents about an investigation coming to a conclusion. in the near future. if matthew whitaker was briefed about the investigation, it's the last time he should be briefed. because his comments were totally irresponsible and reprehensible. >> katie: meantime, blumenthal and republican senator chuck grassley have introduced a special counsel transparency bill that would ensure the mueller report is released to

congress and the public. here's organ senator ron wyden. >> if there is an effort to derail the mueller report from getting in the hands of the american people, i will go to the floor of the united states senate and make sure that i have done everything possible to get the truth to the public. i have noticed even in the last day or so a number of my colleagues are saying the same thing. >> katie: albright, guy. we have an actual timeline on the mueller probe from an official at the department of justice. for the first time. the speculation is over, right? >> guy: sort of. [laughter] there was some edge and, if you listen carefully. >> katie: he was trying to stop himself and it kept going. >> guy: he hedged. he was aspirational. "i hope this will happen. soon he will get to see it." i think this idea that the congress or the public won't see the results, that the crazy fear. it's going to happen. everyone is going to insist that it happens. i will say -- and i've said this for months -- i am not in the

game of guessing when mueller is going to wrap up. there've been predictions now for a year. that he's almost done. whitaker might know a little bit more than most people, so i pay a bit more attention when he says that, but, again -- robert mueller will conclude when that man decides that he is over with this process. and we are not there yet. >> katie: melissa, democrats on capitol hill are furious that he let this so-called timeline slip. they are very upset about that. why is that? >> melissa: i mean, i guess they wanted to drag on as long as you can come because if there's a cloud over the president said it casts doubt? but i think if you really believe that there is something behind it -- which they say they do -- that you would want it out and in the hands of the public as soon as possible. as we just heard. i think it seems like everybody on every side really wants it out in the hands of the public. if it really seems to believe that their side is going to come out and love with the findings are. again, i'm with you. i just -- all of the sudden i feel like everyone is a liar when someone stands up and says,

"someone is going to stop this from getting in the hands of the public!" >> capri: there are two separate issues. the one issue i think blumenthal is referring to is the fact that the acting attorney general basically showed his hand and said that this is what's currently going on with an active investigation. which is usually not the way the department of justice operates. they usually do not comment in a shape or form in regards to either the content or where it's at in the process, when it comes to an active investigation. i think that issue there -- i agree with you guys, that everybody wants this thing out there. it needs to happen, he needs to be transparent. i don't know anybody that's going to oppose that. >> katie: harris, the question is -- if whitaker is correct in saying that he hopes it's going to be over based on the assumption that he knows it's going be over soon -- >> harris: i think is correct in saying that he hopes. i think he believes what he sang. my question is, who is the audience for this? this is not proof. >> katie: he was answering a reported question. >> harris: and he's hoping, he's the interim guy over the

investigation. william barr, confirmation that senator lindsey graham hopes to bring to the senate floor very f and when that happens, he will be the person to make these determinations. matthew whitaker was the guy the democrats were screaming against already that they didn't like it. he's the interim guy. he got some sort of a briefing, a report. he hopes, so on and so forth. we just want the information on the transparency. we just want to see what the facts are. what is the conclusion of the report? and if it's his estimation, is not alone. others have said it could be close. then you look at the legal extensions that they filed just a couple months ago. it could be longer. i don't think we really know. >> katie: be down to. >> harris: who is the audience for that? does it matter? until the actual age he speaks? i don't know. >> katie: based on how polling shows the mueller probe right now, i think the market people are ready for it to be over. we don't know when that'll happen. moving on, that didn't take long.

the backlash to howard schultz after the longtime democrat and billionaire says he is wearing a a white house run as an independent. why the echoing he just got may only be the beginning. >> don't run against trump! you egotistical billionaire [bleep]! go back to twitter! go back to the other billionaire elite who think they know how to run the world! ♪ ♪ and if you feel, like i feel baby then come on, ♪ ♪ oh come on ♪ let's get it on

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>> melissa: more "outnumbered" in just a moment, but first let's check in with harris on what's coming up on "outnumbered overtime" in a few minutes. >> harris: we are talking about health care, a congress man who is also a doctor. republican mark green of tennessee will journey. we are talking about presidential candidate kamala harris packing medicare for all and single-payer health care, and to end private insurance as we know it. i will talk about whether those ideas are realistic with congressman and dr. green. and who pays for it all, anyway? will voters go through it? plus, windchill could hit 60 below zero is a polar vortex grips the midwest. more than 60% of the country will be below freezing. a live report from chicago on

the dangerously bone chilling weather. top of the hour, on "overtime." >> don't help the electron, you egotistical billionaire leap! go back to getting ratios on twitter! go back to davos with the other billionaire elites who think they know how to run the world! that's not what democracy needs! >> melissa: former starbucks ceo howard schultz heckled medicine to a book event in new york on monday, the day after announcing that he is awaiting a white house run as an independent. on the same day fellow billionaire, michael bloomberg, who is considering running a 2020 as a democrat, warned schultz that he would split the vote and end up giving the president the second term. there has been a chorus of democratic criticism of schultz.

nate lerner, who is behind the push of the beto o'rourke 2020 bid, tweeting, "i will not only boycott the run for independent, but stand outside every day protesting. his ego and selfishness is disgraceful." and he's not alone in his starbucks boycott. >> guy: i can't think of a bigger waste of time than standing outside a random starbucks to protest a political decision of the guy who used to run the company. that's beto's brainchild? that's somewhat worrying. the one thing i found intriguing about this schultz thing is, you know who is one of his top consultants in this potential? bill burton, who was a major part of obama world. a number of obama alums are working on behalf of mr. schultz, who came out today, by the way, swinging at kamala harris and single-payer health care over the debt issue. which speaks to me, as a

conservative. i think he's an intriguing character. i'm not necessarily convinced he will be a major factor a year plus from now. he may be. but i think the absolute meltdown on the left has been, i think, pretty revealing about how terrified they are of more competition in this race. and more choices for voters who may not feel like either party represents them. >> melissa: katie, i think it's funny. it starts if you like every billionaire thinks he can run the country. >> katie: well, i mean... it's america. you can do anything you want. name ideas going to be a problem for him. john kasich is having a problem with name idea and he's been in politics forever. >> melissa: but he's got the big starbucks logo by decide! >> katie: two guys point, if it interesting to see how the wrecked on mike his to this. telling the truth about what government run health care will cost, physical response abilities and thing.

when it comes to whether you are a republican, democrat, or dependent, you want to do what you can do to help you make your life better, which is allowing you to keep more money to pay check or building a better health care system. how does it impact you? about comes on political -- there is a hard political fight, not just or somebody who is saying, "i'm an independent, let's be civil!" there's room for more civility, but i'm not sure where. >> melissa: is there a fear of too many people splitting it up? in the end, you have one candidate. if howard schultz gets on the ballot -- >> capri: he will have to get in the ballot in all 50 states. if they have open or closed primaries, for example. democrats will always be scarred from gore/bush 2000. what happened with ralph nader. there is a part of the party -- >> harris: ross perot. [laughter] >> capri: that give

bill clinton the white house with less than 50% of the vote. i'm packing my bags, going to davos, and checking into the ritz-carlton. >> melissa: i love it, sounds fantastic. on that note, maury "outnumbered" in just a moment with all that usaa offers

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never. i'm zero for two on those thing things. >> katie: the american dream is alive. >> melissa: think you two capri, as well. katie, melissa. we will be back at noon eastern tomorrow. for now, here's harris. >> harris: a lot to get to this hour. let start with the former associate of president trump facing charges in court. this is "outnumbered overtime," i'm harris faulkner. roger stone pleaded not guilty in the d.c. federal court and seven counts not long ago, including charges that he lied to lawmakers engaged in witness tampering as well. and that he was possibly chording with russia through drunken pain. david? >> a, harris. good afternoon. quite a scene outside the district court in washington. throngs of people shouting at roger stone. to this present one, he pleaded not guilty. he said many times in many different networks you would do that. to the surprise of many people,