years ago. december of 2016. >> sandra: that was a good look back. it >> bill: a good ohio man. if you haven't seen "last man" yet, pretty good movie on neil armstrong. check it out. >> sandra: thinks returning is today. we will see her tomorrow. "outnumbered" starts now. >> harris: fox news alert, president trump is throwing his support guide to catholic school student taking on "the washington post" over a viral video that was twisted by critics. a new lawsuit seeking $250 million, high school juniors accusing the paper of practicing a "modern-day form of mccarthyism." you are watching "outnumbered." and harris faulkner. here today, fox business and kurt, dagen mcdowell. fox news analyst and cohost of "benson & harf" on fox news radio, marie harf. and host of "kennedy" on the fox business network, kennedy herself. in the center seat, he says he's ready. joe concha. media reporter and columnist for "the hill," radio host.

welcome. >> joe: i'm nervous! i'm mortified! >> harris: are you ready for the news? >> joe: every day we've got a lot to get through. it's the greatest time to be in this business. >> harris: let's get to it. kentucky high school student nick sandmann is suing "the washington post" for defamation. he was at the center of a video that many in the media mischaracterizes an aggressive confrontation with a native american activist that aa pro-life video. other videos came out telling a different story. much of the damage is already been done. the lawsuit is seeking $250 million. it's the same amount that amazon ceo jeff bezos paid for the newspaper back in 2013. in a statement, sandman's attorney is accusing them of using their vast financial resources to enter the bully pulpit by publishing a series of false and defamatory print and online articles which effectively provided a worldwide

microphone to entities to smear a young boy who was, in its view, an acceptable casualty in their war against the president." president trump tweeted this today. quoting the lawsuit, writing, "the washington post ignored basic journalistic standards because it wanted to advance its well-known and easily documented biased agenda against president donald j. trump. covington students suing "washington post," go get them, nick! fake news!" >> joe: it's kind of irrelevant with their suing for. $250 million, that's not the point. if he gets $250,000, that's fine. it's a symbolism that matters to so many people who are tired of a media where accountability is no longer in play. how much do you see people being suspended or fired or even apologies being given? we saw this with brett kavanaugh, for instance. no due process, guilty until proven innocent. the covington kids, guilty until proven innocent.

smollett, guilty until proven innocent. there's one great pull from axios that came out last year. this is my opinion or the opinion of other media critics that sometimes service cheerleaders. this is what the american people think of the media right now. 72% of americans believe that, "traditional media new sources publish stories that they are to be fake, false, misleading." not surprising. here's the big number -- 79% of independent toilets believe that as well. and the majority of democrats. this is from axios and surveymonkey. not a right-leaning pole or anything like that prayer that is the gauge today pray that's why a lot of people probably cheering that lawsuit. >> harris: i want to unpack what you said a little bit. marie, i will come to you. we are hearing a drumbeat on this. it's not about the money. although that $250 million figure, as a sit in the opening statement there, is interesting. that's what bezos paid for "the washington post" ." >> marie: i think it's basically a political lawsuit. the language they use at mears

language donald trump is used. they mention president trump repeatedly in the lawsuit. so i think this is meant to draw attention to the case. i don't think this is about the money. >> harris: you think the case needs more attention? >> marie: i think it needs less attention, quite frankly. in terms of the strategy, i think they want to make a political point of more than a legal point. what will be interesting is if this goes through a court of judicial process there will be discovery on any other videos that anyone else might have showing any other piece of what these kids did that day. this will open up much more than just that one video many of us have seen, but much more information will come into this. that's a little bit risky, i think it, for these kids. who knows what else will be there. >> harris: the bottom line is to find out the truth and you've got so much that has come into play. who is that most risky for? there was one side clearly tilting in one direction away from the kids. >> marie: advocates most risky for the kids. the media narrative now is that they were wrongly accused, they didn't do anything wrong, that's the general media narrative.

now is more information that could give a fuller picture. i don't know if there will be, but there could be. this cannot uniformly be good for the kids. >> harris: part of that media narrative, dagen, also has to do with the juxtaposition between the adults in the kids never do. who was ultimately responsible for maybe walking away? nick sandmann has said he was intimidated in the moment, too much though to walk away. that was in an interview that he gave. i don't know about that, about the adults in that circle. >> dagen: by the way, the weekend this happened -- within like a day, by that sunday -- i found the video, the much longer video online. but i had at least enough of a noggin not to retreat anything. and not to weigh in on anything, because i am a member of the media. i know there is a responsibility, a legal responsibility, to make sure you have your facts straight. i can't just belch bio like so many other people in the media. it's certainly a problem with

weekend. i will push back on this. it somehow just a political lawsuit? you don't think this young man, a private figure, which goes into the legal equation in terms of damages done to him -- >> kennedy: and a minor. >> dagen: you don't think his life isn't permanently harmed by this? by this onslaught and mob of miss information of their quest mark marie, you gotta be joking. >> marie: i don't think these kids believe perfectly here. i don't think there are some saints we should put on a pedestal and give $250,000,000.02. his life has been changed, and it would have been changed less if he had walked away or if the chaperones -- where were the parents but the kids? >> dagen: this is about the media and the behavior of the media. >> marie: i don't think the media was entirely wrong. >> dagen: you have to show for reckless disregard to sustain a defamation act. if if you read the lawsuit -- wh i did -- they are fighting this

tooth and nail, his lawyer. >> dagen: and the fact that he's a minor. with kids nowadays, you have to tell them as parents to be very careful about everything you do and say that goes on social media. whether it's a friend putting you -- >> harris: and assume it's going there because everybody's got a camera. >> kennedy: at assume it was forever. anytime a employer googles this kids name, he's going to be adults and paid anytime he applies for jobs or law school or business school. this could keep them for some of those opportunities. that's why there's a greater responsibility. one benefit from this story and the jussie smollett story, not only do consumers of news have a lot more skepticism than they first interact to the stories, it creates such an incident emotional reaction that now people go, "let me see what is here." hopefully that encourages media

outlets and journalists to do the same thing. to pause for a second before this race to be the first one to post your outrage on social media. because that's what it's all about. it's about this insane race to show how mad you are. >> harris: there is something dagen pointed out, too -- is a journalist, i know you're coming from. howie kurtz and i have this conversation the day after on the air. we both said we didn't click on that. we are in that generation where it's a little bit different, the questions we ask for it. for nathan phillips, my question was -- he was the most adult person in the room at that point, at least chronological. i wonder where he had walked away. in the last interview i saw him, he was still waiting for -- "i want to get together with this young man and he owes me an apology, blah, blah, blah." but where are we with the adults acting like adults? >> joe: where are we? well... [laughs] all he knows this. i will stay in my media lane because i can't speak for nathan phillips who has been proven to lie about a couple things since

then in terms of his vietnam service. twitter will be the death of this industry. there is no editor, no producer, to stop somebody sitting on the couch who otherwise is reporting -- on tv and on print, wanting to share their feelings in the verifying. the first, instead of the accurate. a couple things marie said -- she said there is greater risk of the kids. half the country believes that nicholas sandmann was the perpetrator here. therefore, he became the face of racism. to kennedy a prosperous point, what does this do for him moving forward in terms of what job applications? this could follow him around for long time. nikki haley had a great quote on this. "that media has to be as possible for the reporting particularly when you have kids who don't have an ability, generally, to defend themselves against media reporting." they needed a legal resource here to help advance this forward. >> dagen: this will advance the law covering the behavior of journalists and members of the media online. on social media. >> harris: do we need to review our standards,

journalistically, as a whole? >> marie: that'll open up a lot of doors for a lot of people. >> dagen: legally, i think "the washington post" has reviewed the standards of behavior online. in the actual lawsuit, it talks about the fraudulent accounts. 20/20 puts out this edited video, and the name of "the washington post" reporter that reported that video. >> harris: this, from the vice president took medication of the post. to give a statement to hannity. "we are reviewing a copy of the lawsuit and we plan to mount a vigorous defense." you're reading reading what they will have to defend. >> dagen: i think of it but in this country, who are online, you need to sit back and say, "why do i drive some sense of self-worth getting a retreat from alyssa milano or somebody liking something i have to say?" >> marie: i agree with you. >> kennedy: i would rather have an amanda binds retreat, but that's just me. [laughter] 's be i would rather have a kennedy retreat.

no doubt we will come back to this subject. plans to build the border wall, facing mounting legal and potentially legislative challenges now. why the trump administration says construction will not be stopped. plus, california is leading the opposition to the portable. the president is taking on the state over a failed $77 billion high-speed rail project. could california be on the hook from the money it took from the government? ♪ choose glucerna, with slow release carbs to help manage blood sugar, and start making everyday progress. glucerna. but allstate helps you. with drivewise. feedback that helps you drive safer. and that can lower your cost now that you know the truth... are you in good hands?

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♪ >> marie: welcome back, the white house not backing down as the show to another president trump's emergency declaration is growing. house democrats expected to introduce a resolution aimed at stopping the order. the timing of its release still up in the air.

this, as california lead 16 states filing a federal lawsuit to block the president's move. so far the sun and not taking the action. recent polls show most americans oppose the president's move. the public and voters are strongly supportive of it. still, there are signs the president is headed for a clash with some in his own party. "they'll" identifying ten republicans that may break with the president and vote for resolutions defending the emergency declaration for this list and quizzing senator susan collins, marco rubio, and mitt romney. meanwhile, senate democrats sipping up their opposition to the president's move, but even they don't know how this will end as the supreme court may have the final decision. here is democratic senate minority whip, dick durbin. watch. >> i can't tell you what the supreme court will do. it's a fight in his favor on most issues. i think it is a gross overstep in terms of the emergency power. >> kennedy: and the most recent legal challenge, the aclu and the sierra club filed a lawsuit in northern california

seeking to block the order. a little bit about the senate republicans who might blog a resolution like this -- is that list just wishful thinking on the part of the hill? >> joe: i don't think so at all. every time we see there is opposition, you see collins and markowski of the top of the hit stomach was because they are moderates. the army would be much of a surprise since he has crossed the president of the past. republicans have been outspoken on this in terms of opposing. but here's the thing. let's see that congress passes in the house a solution to stop this. on the senate doesn't have the votes to do it either. for only half that effect. he's going to veto it anyway. >> kennedy: and they don't have that veto-proof majority in either chamber. >> joe: rate. the ghost of a president, he asked when it perfectly -- remember, the rose garden. >> wow "they will sue us into the ninth circuit, will get a better ruling and go to the supreme court." just like the travel ban, it'll come to perhaps two foods.

neil gorsuch n, the irony of ironies, brett kavanaugh giving him a victory. it would be amazing. but justice roberts is always a wild card. >> kennedy: to interesting predemocrat's are playing a risky game here. on one hand they know that if he sets his precedent, the democrat present in the future can move money around for the exact same thing. nancy pelosi's just licking her chops with that prospect. they are convinced they will win 2020 matter who the nominee is. at the same time, a lot of these high-profile democrats are painting themselves into a corner, saying, "we cannot read appropriate money like this!" which i think is fantastic. >> marie: i think that's a legal argument and we will see it in the courts. >> kennedy: either you or a poster and you can't do it in the future, or you will of the president to it so you can to be in the future. you can't have it both ways. that's my world. >> marie: democratics are fairly united and that they don't think this is constitutional. we'll see how it plays out in the courts. >> kennedy: unless kamala harris or elizabeth warren want to do it. a lot of people have said that.

>> marie: no one is saying that. that'll be interesting, there are a number of senators up for reelection. joni ernst, time tablets, some of these seeds are not easy to read when. putting them on the record, they tend to hate overreach. even if it goes nowhere and the present age that come putting republicans in the senate on the record will be very interesting thing. i think there'll be more republicans who vote with democrats. >> kennedy: let's talk about the structural implications of a vote like this. there are a lot of people in congress on both sides of the aisle that say they want to take their power back. the legislative branch has been so weakened, does evil like this -- regardless of who the president is -- take some of the power back? what does it say? >> dagen: it might take some of the power back. one interesting thing, it's not just that democrats may be wanting to use the same powers down the road. president obama, there were

plenty of conservatives who were very upset by president obama's abuse of executive power. abuse being a word up for interpretation, but the president then was rebuked by the supreme court on recess apartments and environmental regulation. and his ruling on dreamers and giving them work permits could very well end up being overturned in the court system as well. so it's not just how the democrats down the road would use these powers again. it's also the fact that president trump is now handing this to the court system, and how they could infringe on a president's actual legitimate use of emergency power down the road in a real emergency. unlike border, but something more grave than that. >> kennedy: harris? >> harris: i'm going to move on to the next topic. if polls and all of this. meanwhile, as california leads the states opposing the emergence declaration, the trump

administration is going after california for eastfield $77 billion at high speed or a project. the terrain of transportation is threatening to cancel $929 million in earmarked federal funding for the project and exploring options to reclaim billions already spent of the taxpayer money. this, after the democratic governor announced he was dramatically scaling back the project as it went over budget and behind schedule pretty also, by the way, cited mismanagement. trumpet treated on this yesterday, saying, "the field festering project with the cost is becoming world record setting, is hundreds of times more expensive than the desperately needed wall." governor newsom responded, "this is clear political retribution by president trump and we won't sit idly by." this is california's money and we will fight for it." joe, i see you shaking your head. >> joe: he's very handsome man. he should be an "scandal 2."

that's what i'm shaking my head about. i'm also shaking my head because i think the president has the upper hand here. you should go one step further, as a matter fact. see how californians got screwed out of their money in addition -- >> harris: the governor called mismanagement. those one of the things he enumerated. you may be very right about tha that. >> joe: it smells of corruption and embezzlement, quite frankly. how do you mismanage anything that much? here's the bottom line -- the president's right to say should pull the money back, because the specific proposals for a high-speed rail between los angeles and san francisco. you can't change after the fact. if i asked my dad when i'm 17 years old for $100 to go fix my car and then i use that 100 $1o go by beer to put in my other friend about stress car, that's not it works. either it specific to the proposal or it comes back to the government until you can prove that you can management do things properly. this is one of the biggest debacles we've seen by any state government in history. >> harris: what's interesting about this, too -- look at the dollar figure there. the president saying, "that's more than i'm getting to build

the wall. by the way, it's going to be built anyway." wouldn't be interesting to claw back some of that money for that purpose? in a state that already has a wall? >> kennedy: how about calling it back and giving the taxpayers already ponied up that much money? and people in california have been clearly duped by this proposal back in 2008. a won by a very narrow majority. the project has changed so drastically, and you see mismanagement. you see missed deadlines. you see cost overrun. and that is the future of the green new deal. this is something you want to invest in. this is exactly where it goes, and then projects have to be shut down and people who rely on this employment are out of jobs. california is now out of so much money, and now even more federal money because people like gavin newsom -- who has been the second one in charge in california -- has helped this gross mismanagement. >> harris: it is really interesting. they were going to re-up at one point and ask for $3 billion extra. so that's not going to happen. it can get our money back?

you know it's interesting to me, marie? who might be watching this from 37,000 feet is nancy pelosi. when you talk about the green dream. she calls it, "what is a come of the green dream?" she calls it a suggestion. she throws some shade in the direction of measures the deal, but the dealmaker, aoc. [laughter] >> marie: the caricature, harris, they point out of nancy pelosi. or this project. >> harris: may be you don't bite down so hard. >> marie: is a caricature. clean energy technology in this country, in many ways, is actually growing faster than the regular economy. coal jobs are going much less fat than solar wind. they are much more profitable now than they used to be. that's not the character donna caricature of the green new deal. this project, i agree. >> kennedy: is not a caricature, it's the most extensive public works project in the country. it's not high-speed rail, it's build on existing trails that are -- they are old and they can't support a project like this. >> marie: kennedy, my point is

a lot of the green economy and clean energy economy isn't a debacle like this. this project makes it easy to caricature people's efforts to help -- it is! it is proliferated in the private sector. >> kennedy: you know what? natural gas is plentiful in this country end of the street. that is the private sector, reducing emissions in this nation. making electricity or travel affordable. for all americans. let me just leave you with this -- if california is so hard up for this rail project, try and get the money from private investors. they can't. >> marie: we need high-speed rail this country. we do. we absolutely do. to be when she's waiting, she said she wants to see all the suggestions. i was throwing you a bone. she is looking at this from the top. real quick, less thought? >> joe: the problem is that five don't correct centers endorsed that deal. we went and she said, what are you endorsing customer feel like it but they don't know what's in it.

rather ironic. >> joe: dick durbin said today, "what is this?" that's literally his quote. >> marie: if are republicans of a better idea, put on the table and we will debate it. so far there is no other proposal. >> harris: this is your party! i'm just quoting her party. >> dagen: since 2005, emissions have fallen 30% because of natural gas. >> marie: and we are still on target -- we are still in don mcgahn tech from planning to him so much that will be reversible very soon be to talk to china. >> joe: unless india and china are on board -- they are the biggest polluters. >> harris: y'all are going to miss that part, but here's what's coming. fired acting fbi director andrew mccabe is doubling down on his claims that he told congressional leaders about the russia counterintelligence probe. but now a former top lawmakers disputing that. who is telling the truth here? plus, 2020 candidate bernie sanders raising the stakes as some democrats appear to be conflicted about the party

embracing more far left proposals. oh, boy, i bet this comes up again next! is this with the base voters want now? is that what they are demanding, or will it be a problem in the general election customer at a debate. it's hot. stay close. speak all of those ideas, people say, "oh, bernie, they are so radical!" the american people just want to trip those ideas? you know it's happened in three years? all of those ideas and many more are now part of the political mainstream. >> so we are saying the party came your way customer can >> well, i don't want to say that. i think most people would say that. ♪ i don't keep track of regrets.

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it, "caught between president trump and the left," democratic candidates seek to avoid the socialism squeeze." president trump tweeting this today, "crazy bernie has just entered the race. i wish him well! "some of the train train democrats appearing to be hedging their bets. senator cory booker recently warned that medicare for all will be difficult to pass. senator kamala harris applauding the green new deal, but adding that while some of its goals will not be achievable. meanwhile, other 2020 considers powering full steam ahead to the far, far left. senator elizabeth warren unveiling a plan to fund universal child care for a tax on the very wealthy. watch this. >> the answer is here. this will be about four times more than we have invested and our children. but that is exactly what we need to do.

we can pay for universal child care and a whole lot more if we just ask. one-tenth of 1% to pay a fair share. >> dagen: the wealth taxing unconstitutional, but bernie sanders making a familiar-sounding promise while touting his medicare for all plan. listen to him. >> they say, "you will lose your current health insurance and employment." yeah, but you will have the same exact doctor, more freedom of choice on our proposal then you have under the current proposals. >> dagen: sanders' teams as it has raised a record-setting $6 million in its first day. marie harf? >> marie: i think this is interesting. in 2018, the way democrats took the house back was by running moderates across the midwest, across the south, the plane states. the democratic party knows that. i think there is a recognition that the other side will try to paint the entire democratic

field as far, far left and socialist -- using aoc, bernie, elizabeth warren -- but what i hear from a lot of democratic primary voters is job number one is beating donald trump. they believe that someone more moderate -- and actually put kamala harris more in the moderate category. amy klobuchar. they want to bite into run, they want beto o'rourke and mitch landry to run. these are people they think are the real future of the party based on how we did in 2018. >> dagen: just really quick, i want to get bernie sanders' response to present from calling him "crazy bernie" he tweeted this, in part. "what's crazy is we have a president xi was a racist, sexist, a xenophobe, and a fraud. we're going to bring people together and not only defeat trump but transform the economic and political life of this country. " harris going to get away. >> harris: yvon seen one and commit lose since 1984, and that was george hw but. it's really hard to be in a

government president. they have to figure out just how to beat trump but also how to break history. i'm really curious how they will do that. bernie sanders may be a bigger problem every other democrat in the race. he raised that $5.924 million hours after announcing, but he did it with individuals whose average was $27. we haven't seen that since barack obama. that's problematic for democrats, because none of those people you just mentioned seem to match up. president trump all already has a nickname for most these people. >> marie: kamala harris is raising a lot of people. beto o'rourke raised a lot from small aa donors. >> harris: she is stepping it right now with the whole jussie smollett thing. it will be interesting to see her dig out of that. >> marie: what i would actually quote is the three presidents since world war ii have lost reelections, they'll face a very serious primary challenger. none of those primary challengers ended up winning, but they so weakened the incumbent -- whether it was jimmy carter or george hwb a --

>> harris: but not since 1984 -- >> marie: george h.w. bush faced a very serious primary challenge. >> kennedy: jimmy carter's challenge and his own party. that goes back to 1980. he did not win the reelection -- >> marie: if donald trump and and -- my point is, if -- >> kennedy: may be he could be the ross perot of this -- >> marie: if donald trump gets a real primary chant down like challenger, i don't think he will win the primary but they could weaken and pay that's another precedent we should look at. >> harris: two of the most popular governors in the country are republicans. hogan said today he's not -- >> marie: john kasich is going to do it. >> joe: he won one state back down like last time. >> dagen: john kasich has got a grumpy old man -- >> marie: it is a war of ideas at this point. economic victory. democrats have to realize that. i think some of the moderate democrats that mary is talking but realize that. they ran on local economic issues in their home districts were republicans were vulnerable.

that's why they have control of the house. socialism is easy to defeat in a general election. that's why the candidates have to be incredibly careful. they're talking out of both sides of their mouth. you can't have it both ways. you cannot have full throated medicare for all, free college tuition, $15 minimum wage, and universal basic income with no way to pay for it. >> dagen: a government takeover of the health insurance system is socialism. joe? >> joe: what this gives president trump is a bold contrast. he's very good at civil messages. "make america great again," for instance. in this case, "what do you want? capitalism or socialism?" that will be the theme of the 2020 election. we talked about all the minutia, that's what it will come back cheap with bernie sanders. >> kennedy: don't e-cigs a means of production. that's not socialism, what is? we should define it right now. if that's not what it is, what is it? >> marie: i was going to say government takeover of all of her main economic industries, which is on what happening. except on the trip is not

picking winners and losers when it comes to certain industries with his tariffs. >> kennedy: how was universal basic income not a government takeover question aren't $80 trillion over ten years, i was thought a government takeover? >> marie: it's more like democratic socialism car parts of europe but we don't have time to get into that. >> kennedy: we are in europe! >> marie: donald trump will try to make that point. i agree that he is a master brander. if there's a candidate who cannot be called a socialist, ill be hard to make that argument. >> dagen: here's a little fact. bernie sanders 'medicare for all bill outlaws private insurance in this country. anybody can read it. kamala harris, elizabeth warren, cory booker, and kirsten gillibrand all endorse it. and they will have to own it every day until people go to the polls in 2020. no private insurance for everybody. >> kennedy: government takeover. >> dagen: house republicans pushing back calling democrats' later probe of the white house a ridiculous conspiracy theory, and saying there could be real consequent is over it for

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or call 1-855-newdayusa. ♪ >> kennedy: republican lawmakers heading back after democrats open yet another investigation into the white house. house oversight committee democrats citing unnamed whistle-blowers on an alleged plan by the white house to help build dozens of nuclear reactors across saudi arabia. those whistle-blowers claim from a national security advisor michael flynn and derek harvey, an official brought in by flynn, worked on the proposal despite warnings against it. congressional republicans pushing back on the probe. part of a statement from republicans on house and, reading, "the attack on mr. harvey is a redo goes conspiracy theory floated by media partisans in the house shamefully. championed by democrats and members of congress to defame staff members for political purposes will be reported to the ethics committee."

this is convoluted and weird. what do you think of it? >> marie: it depends on if democrats have the receipts they claim to have. the information that mike flynn and derek harvey, after being told to stand out on this, continued working on it for months. we have seen mike flynn has not always conducted himself in the most ethical way, so the reports we are seeing certainly raised a lot of really serious questions and it is absolutely congress' oversight role to get these her here. >> kennedy: michael flynn doesn't even work -- >> marie: derek harvey is still a staffer. >> kennedy: but you can't single-handedly give stuff to saudi arabia. they started billing it based on our technology? >> marie: the question of whether they were pursuing a secret nuclear program after being expressly told not to do so is absolutely nothing within congress' purview. without question. >> kennedy: the wheels are not the bike and paid its ground for impeachment, right? >> marie: it's not funny, it's a serious national security issue if they did this. >> harris: let's go today can. >> dagen: this is what the democrats do when they take over

all these committees. whether it's jerrold nadler, adam schiff, elijah cummings. this is their bread-and-butter right now. quite frankly, it's anything to embarrass the white house. even may be discourage people from going to work there who might be valuable citizens. >> kennedy: i don't know how much traction the schizo. >> harris: i would to yield on my time to joe concha. my number one question is -- everybody says they can multitask, but they say they can walk and chew gum at the same time. they will have to do that. they don't have the receipts, as mary pointed out, they've got to have something to show for that. >> joe: democrats were sent to washington to solve problems and make the lives of the american people better. if they open up too many investigations this will have what's called a boomerang effect. i think the mueller investigation is the whole ball game. if that report comes back to be a dud, and we are seeing more and more leaks that there might not be anything that involves collusion. it becomes a dud. >> harris: collusion is not a crime. >> joe: even if it is. even if it's that scene that we in the court of public opinion,

if there is no connection between the term campaign and the russians and collusion, this is dead. meanwhile, poll is showing that for us what impeachment hearings now. if they go down that road you will see -- amassing a similar effect, the bill clinton, day one, after he was impeached from his approval was that 73%. you can overplay your hand here. if democrats open up too many investigations they are overplaying their hand hand ine american people will be saying that they are being sent to solve problems are not open investigations on things we don't care about. >> kennedy: they are already mounting defenses against the tepid mueller report, saying he didn't push far enough. >> marie: wire becoming a tepid? >> harris: that's a great question. >> kennedy: that's the defensive posturing from democrats, that's what i'm saying. they are already mounting a defense if it's a tepid report. former fbi acting director andrew mccabe with more explosive claims as he continues his book tour. he says he thinks the president may be working for russia. plus, he's sticking up for those

now infamous anti-trump textures. we'll talk about an hour. >> peter strzok and lisa page were two people who serve this country well. good people make poor decisions every day. ♪ okay, max...time to help mrs. tyler reach her health goals! i'm in! but first... shelfie! the great-tasting nutrition of ensure. with up to 30 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals! ensure. for strength and energy. [cell phone rings] where are you? well the squirrels are back in the attic. mom? your dad won't call an exterminator...

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>> peter strzok and lisa page were two people who served this country well. good people make poor decisions every day. that one time and my working with man did i ever see anything that i perceived to be political bias or political influence in the decisions they were making in the work we were doing. >> marie: that was former acting fbi director andrew mccabe defending anti-trump textures peter strzok and lisa page. that was one of many to come out of numerous appearances he's been doing this week. he's also raising eyebrows after claiming he told congressional leaders about a counterintelligence investigation to the president which faced no pushback from those leaders. he doubled down on that claim this morning. >> i walked through a fairly detailed brief which i want share. there was resignation at the table. made that decision, announced to the deputy attorney general and congress that we were supposed to, and moved forward. >> marie: meantime, former

house oversight committee chairman trey gowdy pushing back last night defending those republican leaders while also accusing mccabe of being strategic with his words. speak of the reason he's doing it this way is they are not allowed to discuss anything that is said. i find it stunning that they would know about a second one and not say a single solitary word. i will continue to not believe they knew about it unless one of the other contradicts it. >> marie: when mccabe was asked if he still believe president trump is a russian asset, he i'm really anxious to see. where he concludes that. i want to ask you a media related question. i remember a time marise also many people writing tellos after leaving, getting published, during these huge book tours. and my mr. membrane thinks? >> joe: and makes

the argument for him. you've seen klapper on cnn the former -- brennan, who is on msnbc. obviously, it's almost all his criticism. i'm amazed these two media tours continue for the james comeys. they present gospel as gospel. they go into these to be princes and these mediators may have credibility problems just like andrew mccabe does pay living something here. so the sum of yesterday. "we don't tell michael an investigation is because we don't like someone." then how do you explain peter strzok and lisa page and all those things going on? "the team was counting possible votes for the amendment." that he says, "was rosenstein contradict counting votes? not that i'm aware of." he keeps contradicting himself. that's how you get front of the fbi, because you been found

guilty of three ethics violations. i.e., lying. >> marie: he is changeling chag but legally so we will see how it plays out. i have said they are not perfect messengers. they race and possibly serious issues, though. >> kennedy: i think maury serious issues have been raised by the power of the fbi. those who have the ability to spy on people and launch these investigations. i think the launchpad is very questionable in this case, and i do think that andrew mccabe is full of contradictions. not only from his time at the fbi and what he saying now, but his own words within the last week. so he is say saying something and then he does the diametric opposite. the next day. so how are you supposed to take him at his word? i think the only way to do that is put him under oath and put rod rosenstein under oath. and really figure out -- >> i support all of that. >> kennedy: what were the conversations about the 25th of amendment and whipping votes and trying to remove the president from office?

speech >> dagen: lindsey graham is heading the judiciary committee. he can subpoena coming, rosenstein, and mccabe and put them under oath and question them about what they have said to congress in the past. what they have said in public. if they don't show up, they can prosecute them at the justice department. if they lie and front of the senate, they can prosecute them. now that we've got a new attorney general coming in, bill barr might just do that. >> marie: i'm not sure republicans would like what they hear. maybe they haven't. we will see. a break, but more "outnumbered" in just a moment. your insurance rates skyrocket after a scratch so small

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>> marie: it's cocktail time. speech you've got to come back after i grew my nails out. >> harris: it's 5:00 somewhere! we will be back noon eastern tomorrow >> harris: fox news alert, let's begin as the plot thickens in the jussie smollett story. we are learning chicago investigators are now pushing for a grand jury to get involved. i'm harris faulkner. this is "outnumbered overtime." the latest about him and comes as police are awaiting a follow-up interview with jussie smollett. send the direction of their investigation has now shifted. he was a no-show for the interview over the past two days. harvey levin, founder of tmz -- which broke the story -- says the next step could be the grand jury hearing from the two brothers arrested and then released without charges in the case. >> it looks like this case may go to the grand jury as early as today.