>> thanks for watching. >> mark levine is up next join us next sunday cynic hello america we have a tremendous gas, * how you doing. >> i'm doing great. >> you must confess we are good friends you are a great man. >> thank you so are you former solicitor general former federal judge your parents cannot be more important right now so let's jump in.

>> we have independent counsel robert mueller who has his team is actually special counsel you are independent counsel under a specific statute you had obligations under that statute you had to follow virchow he has a different statute with fewer obligations and i want to ask you a question. >> i watch the coverage of robert mueller and i find out he is a most noble man to walk the earth and so is his staff and members of congress trying to pass laws to protect him, from what, i don't know. >> i remember when you were an independent counsel we had the paparazzi, media on your front step coming out with the coffee every now and then we know you got up and went to bed. >> you were criticized constantly by the media he is offended what do you think of that?

. >> night and day virchow apples and oranges. >> and they camped outside frequently, not always in washington d.c. >>. mark: they do that for mueller. >> is very nice of them. >> i asked someone in washington do people not know where bob mueller lives i don't wish him the invasion of policy but. >> i remember your house. >> it was very nice. >> it was simple. >> a brady bunch house we had a carport and not a garage. >> that madison court and the press was ubiquitous. mark: what is the distinction of coverage. >> there has to be a treaty of

peace with the networks platforms we will leave him alone. >> they didn't like you was that because of who you were investigating or who he is investigating? did you come to that conclusion? . >> it's very logical. >>'s likely to be unpopular with a bunch of people 50 percent or 45 percent american people but the media as a whole there were some great heroes as far as my own investigation was concerned that the media as a whole is sympathetic to investigating a republican like nixon and may be not so with a democrat especially a well-liked controversial although he was but he was likable and charming and he was also very

effective at using surrogates to protect the investigation where president trump has chosen wisely to do the attacks himsel himself. mark: you were attacked relentlessly. >> were there any efforts of congress to protect the investigation or your appointment or any sympathetic voices from the media or reporters as a whole? . >> i would say no. >> with respect to members of congress maybe there were some speeches on the floor from time to time but when it really got going rough was the monica lewinsky phase of the investigation the press criticism was extremely intense i do remember vividly a call from senator hatch to say can get out there but it wasn't that i was hiding but you should get out there and

do this and do that my friend said do larry king live just gives you the microphone you can say what you want to say but at that time i felt it was wrong and i needed to be much more discreet and careful there were times i would go before the media or provide public information out of the investigation without running foul here is the key don't reveal grand jury information. >> i have no idea what robert mueller's house looks like picoult he doesn't want - - his voice sounds like. >> not leaking but we don't get many press releases from the special counsel's office. >> i have my own views on the leaks and so forth but isn't there an obligation the us attorney's office to communicate some information to the american people the

power of the office and it is the president of the united states and people surrounding him. >> i air on the side of providing information with accountability and responsibility so in the statute it was just a judgment call are you going to try to educate the public as appropriate without besmirching people's reputation reputations? that is the key thing we will see with the mueller investigation. >> one thing prosecutor should not do is hammer someone in the public domain. >> you there present the indictments to the grand jury. mark: you know, who agrees with you? from watergate that was a new area they were somewhat criticize writing reports. >> he said i will not write a

report that starts trashing people or insinuating things that i could not bring to court or prove that is a loan - - a bigger abuse of power. >> i completely concur with that i grew up with that roadmap but didn't fill in a lot of details because by definition it will be a one-sided report and it will reflect on the other hand, there is another way to look at the set of facts with this particular testimony so it is fundamental fairness and prosecutors who do have this power should not prosecute by press release or innuendo in public comment. mark: why is that? . >> our sense of fairness and justice with life and liberty that we have in this country the baseline and your liberty to a certain extent is the reputation that foster said

who took his own life that was part of our investigation and just two months before he said to the graduates of university of arkansas in our profession as a lawyer if you lose your reputation you lose everything that is why the law protects reputations from defamation and libel and slander it is an important part as a human being we don't go besmirching anothe another, or if we do, then we might have to face. >> so tell me the criminal context you are a prosecutor with power as special counsel i would say that has more power than the typical us attorney. >> we have a bill of rights for a reason with due process and presumption of innocence to cross-examine witnesses , see the charges thrown against you.

>> in this case with robert mueller the report they say will be released relatively soon, the president's lawyers have not seen or an opportunity to respond or prepare a response. >> it isn't vetted through the typical courtroom. >> you don't have free discovery of depositions or question questions, none of that. >> so whatever the prosecutor writes in the report and what it says with no checks and balances whatsoever. >> he's not a judge or jury. >> but yet the statute tries to limit the power of a report unlike your statue that you worked under with the independent counsel statute. >> explain. >> independent counsel statute that existed 21 years and has gone away was really putting a pretty heavy thumb on the

scales toward impeachment in the wake of watergate the country had been through the impeachment process when the president resigned. >> so what do we want a special prosecutor or independent counsel what we want them to do? we want them not just make prosecutorial decisions but write a report and send that report to the house of representatives it's one of the reasons, mark that justice scalia in his magnificent dissent in the case that upheld the constitutionality of the statute said accurate with the smell of impeachment under the regulations of which bob miller was appointed there is a reporting requirement and it is confidential under these regulations to go to the attorney general than the attorney general gives a report not to say here it is.

>> so the attorney general of the united states bill bar will have to make a judgment what will i report to congress. mark: it is a completely different reporting requirement but yet people talk about this as the impeachment report is that because pelosi and others have said we want to see this report before we make decisions about impeachment which they know they don't even have a right to see the report. >> there is a failure to understand to drill into regulations under which mueller was appointed. >> the regulations could be jettisoned they could say were not going to use those anymore. >> but they have been in effect in both republican and democratic administrations they came into being in the clinton administration so they have stood the test of time. >> they have been around for a while but i don't know how

many special councils have been appointed but the point is that they have been on the books for congress to look at and if they had come to the judgment it liked the old system of a full report it should have stepped in long before now. >> there is the assumption it isn't grounded in the text of the regulations. mark: when we come back we will discuss the recent revelations from the cape and others under the fbi you worked at the justice department as did i you are the solicitor general i was chief of staff. >> they fbi situation is very troubling i want to pursue that with you in a moment. >> don't forget join us on levintv. go to blazetv/mark or call 844-levin-tv the fact is, americans move more than anyone else in the world.

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mark: the federal bureau of investigation when you're at the justice department bill webster who else was the director? . >> when i was independent

counsel bill sessions was a federal judge. >> there was no controversy with respect to the first two do you ever recall the director of the fbi the deputy director the general counsel leaking? were you aware when you are with the justice department they were leaking? . >> know that would have been really out of character they were straight shooters they were honest and they embodied the goals and values of the fbi perko fidelity bravery integrity were so terribly and portend you have to believe in the honesty of law enforcement with an enormous amount of power so they set the tone and they set a great tone.

mark: from the deputy director andrew mccabe has been in the news on "60 minutes" on his celebrity tour hawking his book which is a remarkable thing to me because he confessed to a cabal at the justice department trying to trigger the 25th amendment to the constitution of the united states they clearly never read it because it is complicated there is no role whatsoever for the fbi and he says in part the reason he was concerned is because the president fired comey but he fired those in among those recommending that was it rosenstein while the president asked me you're the deputy attorney general you can do it or not. than they talk about the deputy attorney general talking about it disagreeing with this wiring himself to

talk to the president about firing comey that he recommended? i must say i see this as a cabal and an effort to overthrow a sitting president i have never seen this i don't think anything is happened in modern american history what is your take quick. >> i was deeply disappointed and frankly i was saddened and angered to read about it and hear about it now with the recent reports from the former acting director of the fbi. who do they think they are? they are part of the executive branch. and the idea of the fbi with all of its authority and power and it does have an enormous amount of power to turn that in a direction against a duly elected president of the united states is appalling unless there was reasonable grounds to believe that the

president was engaged in criminal conduct. or he had become an agent of a foreign government. to me, there is zero evidence president trump love him or not was any way an agent of any foreign power. he had relationships obviously but who doesn't that comes into the presidency? but it was enormously poor judgment on the part of the leadership of the fbi and really who do you think you are?? part of that executive branch this is above your pay grade at a minimum that is the decision to knock on the attorney general's office and the attorney general knocks on the counsel's office and you do this through regular order as to runaway cops. mark: what exactly did he do with road hysteria?

he fires the fbi director. he can fire whomever he wishes it has no effect on the investigation and hasn't interfered with funding as mccabe testified everything is going along seemingly with the investigation. there is no obstruction but you have the inherent power to hire and fire pretty much as he wishes this seems to be a pretext. what do you think quick. >> or the abysmal misunderstanding or constitutional order and the power of the president. there are many checks and balances united states congress and the house of representatives. the founding generations with

that impeachment process put in place and the people's house the senate will eventually. >> and there is a 25th amendment process. and then nobody involved in that decision appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate. that is a huge check and a balance in the presidential appointment and senate approval. and the unaccountable branch for the leadership with that is the accountable part of the executive and to take some very strange steps and you are right.

and in the movement toward the coup d'état. mark: when we come back you have had a lot of experience with this. and i want to pursue that perk and i want to pursue that perk you unpredictable crohn's symptoms following you? for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease, stelara® works differently. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks.

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president trump teasing some big news with china sunday evening. he spoke at the governor's ball held in the white house state dining room. he said there could be big news coming in the next week or two. he met over the weekend with chinese officials. he said negotiators have made a lot of progress and hinted at the largest ever trade deal with china. 2. > -- 200 catholic leaders tookp. pope francis vowed to combat the evil of child sex abuse with a vengeance of divine judgment. mark: i don't know if that is

a compliment but you have wrote this outstanding book content and memoir of the clinton investigations i want to ask. it is said that comments the president makes about this investigation and the faa are unprecedented. are they quick. >> no. i wish the president in the excise of his discretion would leave the next job of attacking the prosecutor to others. but he does it himself. he follows on instinct. mark: he is transparent. >> that he is. bill and hillary were more clever if i may say so. mark: or more devious. >> definitely more devious because they would attack the investigation and prosecutors and investigators indirectly through surrogates especially

james carville or blumenthal or others of the clinton cast. mark: the fbi director would be attacked was he persona non grata. >> yes as far as i understand it. the judge was a straight shooter full of integrity that did not play well in the white house. mark: even janet rena was frowned upon and they took shots at her. is that correct quick. >> yes. throughout the first clinton term she was appointing a number of independent councils perk i had lots of company. and just by way of example henry cisneros. and there were some culpability there a guilty plea and some of these of the past she calls it as she saw

it she was being honest and straightforward but things changed after the 96 election with campaign-finance with that possibility a foreign campaign and as i recall the judge recommended the appointment of the special counsel and brought that out to assess and he recommended the appointment she refused to do that. now throughout the investigation through the monica lewinsky phase she was cooperative. and gave additional assignments that was the ad on. mark: i remember a discussion about removing her with a new

attorney general. so it is important the american people understand context and precedent with the things going on today never happened before as far as i'm concerned from what has taken place at the fbi john solomon just a few days ago that the testimony provided behind closed doors by the general counsel of the fbi film by james baker and the investigation himself said right up to the last point he believed clinton should be charged with felony violations of the espionage act and then was convinced they did not have enough proof to demonstrate she had specific intent for go that is an interesting point this statute has been around over 100 years

it talks about gross negligence it does not require specific intent. what do you make of this? it is confounding in many ways first there is a bizarre press conference he does not talk to the attorney general one of the things the attorney general spoke about that was the attorney general's decision and a few days before and then quickly don't worry everything will be fine and then to have the general counsel who says i thought she should be charged all along but at the end what took place quick. >> the fbi should have been a full consultation with the justice department using the word undermining the authority of the attorney general i would say he usurped authority

and that is the rod rosenstein memo said leading up to the firing of comey by the president of the united states i wish the president had taken this action much earlier because jim comey and we know the hierarchy and he knew the hierarchy and served in the justice department so this was not inadvertent he took the authority of the attorney general to assume that for himself than there may have been a week legal analysis that is a misreading of the statute because mister baker the former general counsel after all was the general counsel and the lawyer to the fbi and thinking that his view would carry a special meaning to the statute and so he thought according to that testimony in fact, she had

committed crimes one of the reasons i chose to write this book is we felt hillary clinton was guilty of the crimes in the arkansas investigation but we could not prove it prosecutors will say a difference between letting go and what i can prove and because of missing witnesses, susan mcdougall would not agree to testify she was in contempt of court. the president was held in contempt. the independent counsel statute working with the fbi but it wasn't the fbi making these decisions whether to prosecute tucker but the responsibility of the justice department or independent counsel. >> so with this fbi pushing the 25th amendment making decisions they had no power to make?

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mark: ken stark rational one - - congressional oversight starting multiple investigations in the trump world look at the constitution and the history of congress what it does and what it should do and it has legitimate oversight. so it needs to know what is going on but that is not what is going on. ten years of the president's tax returns or access to the deutsche bank information from the past and we need to look at these also because of impeachment with high crimes and misdemeanors the american

people elected this man despite the fact he would not release his tax returns. now members of congress what it do that either including pelosi paragraph i am president of the united states who have no legitimate basis whatsoever. what is your take on this and with the responsibilities under article one to conduct attacks of the investigation is nowhere near the powers of congress article one section eight and is almost sounding in the nature of a bill of attainder violating the idea of tax laws to investigate individuals.

what is it we are elected to do and oversee the executive branch to pass laws and so forth? under separation of powers to mention that because too many times in my third century of a constitutional republic we don't return to these principles of wait a second. . >> are you exceeding your power powers? these are questions we continually ask with the president's tax return. >> we discuss these things but few other people do the debate other than the report but the debate of congressional investigation and to investigate as opposed to

getting ten years of tax returns. >> to relate to the legislative authority they are not particularly informed in these areas and they don't care to be. and those that were ill reporters tell me about that. >> no question the media resulting in this book with truth seekers and everybody else the good news is during that time there were many players. like lisa myers from nbc news that broke the inflammatory story the then attorney

general perhaps committed actual forcible rape. these were people and then there were those in the other camp. i wanted to see more truth seekers. so a lot of the material that went out to the public domain was the echo chamber from the press people were saying in the criticisms of the investigation and then hillary was extremely effective at doing a student of saul a linsky is to go after and destroy the other side. mark: they do it to you target the person.

can you be turn the channel without being call it a dictator or nationalist or nazi? recently the american charter of conscience was released and that american charter one of the other things that you have to disagree with one another should we choose to disagree in a much more civil way in wisconsin calling into question with the name-calling with the american people to say i don't like this for quite like the tone or the attitude and then they need to start you want to stop yelling at each other and have more discourse. mark: don't forget watch me on

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mark: ken starr, over two years we have until the president has been colluding with the russians i never understood what that mean does that mean have a drink? i have russian heritage if i speak to the president is that a russian thing? it is an ambiguous term but yet the chairman of the senate intelligence committee is not a show boat. he's pretty quiet and seems to try to be doing a studious job that he is cornered by cbs or nbc or both and says we haven't found direct evidence of any collision. other than a quick hit from the media i don't see that being pounded as breaking news.

alert. a new revelation then you have 14 shows talk about it. where is the russian collusion? thousands of journalists are looking hundreds of americans looking federal prosecutors looking. leaks all over the place people writing books all over the place there is evidence of collusion whatever that is you would see it by now? semi- wrong. >> not at all apparently there is no evidence of collusion in the public domain. we have more than that we have contraindications and those are the two indictments returned on bob miller's with the 13 russian individuals the organizations and when you read those two indictments what you see as the russians were up to no good it's a speaking indictment that tells a story and the story is told is noncollusion there doesn't need to me it isn't just in

the political sense they were doing all kinds of things like a false pretense and here was one of the keys that i shows no collusio collusion, on the very same day the russian operatives financed new york city approach trump rally and anti- trump rally on the very same day to sow the seeds of discord. to my knowledge you are exactly right there is no evidence of collusion. mark: these indictments of the russians they were indicted for activities when who was president ?-question-mark president obama. >> these activities took place when who was president?

the department of justice who was president? i am flabbergasted that there is in the media paparazzi chasing barack obama unwittingly did he know about this otherwise what kind of administration was he running this was his department of justice brennan worked for him susan rice worked for him. a record number of unmasking of individuals and citizens of the last year by the obama administration did we hear nothing about barack obama harry truman says the buck stops here but that's not the case in the obama administration. >> the book needs to be written so there is something that needs to be done what was the obama administration doing? what they knew was going on was the russian interference i

have to note the obama administration with the campaign as the approved winner to take out netanyahu. >> anybody indicted for that quick. >> not to my knowledge i'm not sure there was an investigation. it could not be a violation of federal law but it is for the russians to do what they were doing so i'm glad these indictments were returned. there was strange silence out of the white house while this was underway in a way that who knows what the eventual result would be. so you have a form power trying to interfere with the presidential elections and the president should do something. mark: nothing effective was fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely. but allstate helps you. with drivewise.

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mark: should start, let me ask you this question. to think we have two systems of justice in this country one for republican presidents, one for democrat presidents, do you thank you make people feel we have two systems of justice in this country? >> i feared the american people are inclined in that especially those who have are supporters of the president and say why was not hillary call to justice but the server? what about the clinton foundation and so forth? what i say is, be patient. there are other cops on the beat who are truth seekers and honest and michael horwitz, inspector general of the justice department, is respected for everything i know, i don't know him but he calls it the way i see it. if the facts and so forth. there is still information and perhaps even actions yet to be

taken. but there is right now the appearance, i think, there are two systems of justice. we cannot afford that. there's a job for bill barr the new deputy attorney general and frankly, it's a job for christopher ray, head of the fbi who needs to be much more publ public, i think, in the restoration of public confidence. mark: only a few seconds but you think the senior leadership that have resigned or been fired now did a grave injustice for those honorable people of the justice department connects. >> i think so. i love the men and women of the fbi and have the greatest respect for them. i've worked with so many of them in my two tours of duty in the justice department as well as independent counsel. they deserve better leadership than they have had. mark: do you think that he is coming? mac i hope so. i think the jury is out but i hope so. as i have said before, i said publicly, i want the new directors integrity to be more public insane it's a new day at

the fbi. mark: great pleasure. thank you very much and i think it. mark: that is it, ladies and gentlemen. we'll see you next time on life liberty and the fed. but will this do anything to advance? the denuclearization of north korea. >> chairman kim and i have a very good relationship. i wouldn't be surprised to see something worked out. >> will discuss the upcoming summit. where the president change his mind on u.s. troops in north korea. we sit down with mike pompeo live on "fox news sunday".