the correct answers. he was just smart enough to get a near perfect score on demand or to calibrate the score. so singer would discuss with his clients what kind of score they're looking for. if your daughter took the s.a.t. on her own the first time and got a particular score, retaking the exam if her score goes up too much that would invite scrutiny. singer would discuss with parents what singer would disch parents what kind of score was impressive but not too impressive and then would instruct to attempt to get that story. and he was good enough to do it. [and distant question] >> i'm not sure how much of that is public, so i will air on the side of not answering that. in the charging document, which is in a public, you'll find whatever i'm allowed to stay. on that point. but i don't remember.

he would either take the exam in place of the student, or he would correct answers after the student handed in the card with his or her answers on it. that would be submitted to the s.a.t., to the college board, or to act incorporated for the ect. and it would be scored under that person's name. >> reporter: was there anything they thought they might be cheating going on, did any of the investigative body come to them? >> i can't comment on that. >> there are two prominent actresses you mentioned. >> yes. >> thank you, guys. >> thank you. >> melissa: welcome to "outnumbered," you were listening to federal authorities in boston who are announcing dozens of charges in a massive college admissions cheating scandal reaching all the way to

hollywood business leaders and the most elite universities in the country, and among the people charged in this case are hollywood actress felicity huffman and actress lori loughlin. reportedly, felicity huffman has been arrested. they are accused of taking part in a very elaborate scheme, which included cheating on entrance exams and paying off college coaches and administrators to falsely identify students as athletes, regardless of their participation even, or ability, in those sports. here is u.s. attorney andrew lelling. >> between roughly 2011 and 2010, wealthy parents paid singer about $25 million in total to guarantee their children's admission to elite schools including yale, georgetown, stanford, the university of southern california, the

university of texas, ucla, and wake forest. beyond enriching himself, singer use that money to bribe college officials, division i coaches, college exam administrators, all to secure admission for the children of his clients. not on their merits, but through fraud. >> melissa: we are joined now by professor alan dershowitz, of harvard law school. he's a professor emeritus there. thank you so much for joining us. just explain to people who are just joining us, this william singer was allegedly the leader of this ring and he operated other southern california, at least in part. as somebody who helped the kid get into college, he did admissions counseling. his approach was two-pronged. he had one very elaborate scheme to help kids cheat on the act or the s.a.t., which involved having them submit a note from a doctor that they needed extra time because they had learning disabilities, then he would get someone in the room to either take the test or change their answers. his other venue was to bribe coaches at various universities

to say that they were recruiting the child for one of the athlete spots and get them in that way. that coach would take a bribe and when the kid got to school they would either fake an injury, join the team for a minute and quit, or just say they changed their mind about playing the sport. some people, they said, they allege in this press conference that they paid as much as $6 million. and they paid the money to a charity, so everybody involved deducted the amount of their bribe from their taxes. wow! what is the penalty for something like this? how do you see this case unfolding? >> first of all, this is the worst scandal involving elite universities in the history of the united states. let there be no doubt about this. nobody can diminish the importance of this. involving as it does some of the major, major universities in the country. look, every individual who is charged should be presumed innocent. we have to wait and hear the

evidence. but this involves the most elite universities, coaches, the s.a.t., the act -- this is really one of the great scandals of the 21st century. having said that, i think it is just the tip of the iceberg. remember, this doesn't involve the super, super rich. the super, super rich buy buildings for the university. they donate hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. they don't have to worry about their kids getting in. this involves the very rich. the people who can't quite afford to give a building but can afford to spend $5 million or $6 million. and once this investigation is complete, we will see that this person, singer -- if the allegations are true -- went over any possible line and did clearly commit crimes. apparently he is pleading guilt guilty. in some respects, this is a matter of degree. that we will see other many

scandals involving contributions universities, coaches who are prepared to stretch the rules. at bottom, you know the fault for this lies in the fact that we've abolished grades and universities in many parts of the country. nobody fails anymore. if we went back to the situation that occurred when i started teaching at harvard, almost 60 years ago, this couldn't work. because the students would fail out. it didn't pay for them to get into college because they would make it through. they didn't have academic resources to make it. but today nobody fails. today, nobody gets bad grades. nobody even gets cs. in many universities they have abolished grades. so there is no way of testing whether they are qualified or competent. once they get into college, many just sail through because of the way universities have decided to treat their students. i think we will see this as the

tip of a very, very deep iceberg. i don't believe there should be special slots for athletes. colleges are not supposed to be about athletics. athletics are supposed to be collateral. today kids who aren't qualified or are minimally qualified get in because they are a good quarterback very good soccer player. that's the beginning of the problem. this involves overt cheating and particularly on the s.a.t.s, bribery. it crosses the line. once the investigation unfolds we will see that there is more to this besides the really bad guys at one end of the spectrum. it's a continuum. >> melissa: yeah. this is so elaborate, this scheme. because he had developed relationships, it seems -- and they've said this in part, but it's obvious from how it played out -- he had established relationships with coaches at many different universities with people who work within the

testing community at the s.a.t. and the act. it is so elaborate, to have connections in all these places. and to find people in all these places that would be willing to take bribes. it seems like, inevitably, the released boy they stumbled upon this was a totally unrelated case. they had someone in their groups who said, "by the way, i have a huge scandal you don't know anything about. here's a tip on it." that's how they got started on this road. >> and that's the way many of these happen. >> melissa: and conspiracy, what does that -- this is racketeering, no? >> this is rico. racketeering. it involves an enterprise. obviously, the singer copping down my company is the enterprise. through the enterprise they committed these bribes, fraud, cheating. rico carries a very significant criminal sentence. it also has civil liability. we are going to see this thing

spread. questions are going to raise whether the kids that got in should have their diplomas revoked. what if they got an a+, and did very well? it involves the coaches, each of whom is presumed innocent. some of them took the money for themselves according to this indictment. some of them share the money with the university. the real question is how high up in the university does this go, and how high up in the s.a.t. and act does this go? i hope it doesn't bring about the result of abolishing the s.a.t. or abolishing the act. that would be a terrible mistake. it would mean that kids get into universities based on who the parents are, their personalities, collateral factors like race and other issues. we still need standardized testing. but now we've seen the standardized testing being corrupted, itself. this is a major, major scandal that involves every aspect of admissions universities. i hope i'm right by saying harvard isn't involved, because at least, at the moment, the university that i taught at for

50 years doesn't seem to be involved. though the university that i went to, yale law school, does seem involved. it's just a tragedy. it's a tragedy for kids who didn't get into college, because of the kids cheated their way into college. it's a tragedy for innocent people at these universities who will not be suspect. so we have to carefully look at the evidence and make sure the presumption of innocence remains, but that if there is evidence of guilt, the guilty are punished. >> melissa: the question becomes a lot of the students are currently at the schools right now. what does the university decide to do about that? they made that point, that it would be up to the university to decide if the child stays. professor alan dershowitz, thank you so much. we appreciate your time. we want to give our audience a little more sound right now from an fbi agent at the news conference moments ago. listen to this. >> their actions were, without a doubt, insidious, selfish, and shameful. the real victims in this case are the hardworking students who

did everything they could to set themselves up for success in the college admissions process, but ended up being shut out because far less qualified students and their families simply bought their way in. >> melissa: steve, that's the immediate damage we are looking at here. they're only so many spots in every freshman class, and these kids whose parents bought their way -- by definition, edged out someone more qualified. >> steve: yes, that's the immediate outrage. and people are right to feel it. i just want to amplify two of the points that professor dershowitz made so well, there. first of all, on the collapsing standards and i don't like higher education. i think that's very real and affecting our whole economy. i noticed it when i -- i was a teacher at stanford in the first year after we moved here seven years ago from the u.k. great kids, full of energy, and passion.

i was shocked that any of them could write a coherent paragraph that made sense, let alone the whole essay. it was shocking to me to see that standards had fallen so low. the really big point is this one about elitism. the ramifications of this are going to go really wide. why -- it's another example for. when they say the system is rigged. you don't get a fair shake. it is one rule for the rich and powerful and well-connected, and the regular working american doesn't get a chance. it fits into that narrative that has fueled the rise of populism, donald trump, bernie sanders, we are seeing in the democratic party. it's all part of this story that america used to be the land of opportunity. if you worked hard into the right thing, you rose on your merits. and that seems to be disappearing. this is another example of it. >> lisa: to that point, the u.s. attorney, andrew lelling, said there can be no separate college admission system for the wealthy. but isn't there already?

as alan dershowitz laid out, if you're incredibly rich you buy a building 80 by your kid into the school. there's also legacy students, as well. they tended to have wealthy parents and went to the school and contribute. then the kids get in. even a public school systems, a lot of the better education systems are in richer neighborhoods and richer areas. if you are really wealthy you can buy your kids into private school. is that already happening across the country? it was one thing that stood out to me in the press conference. the other come on the lighter note, operation varsity blues? very appropriately named. well done, law enforcement. that's kind of fun as well. [laughs] lastly, lori loughlin -- i found interesting -- she got her kids a scholarship or not a scholarship, got her kids in for crew. yet her daughters had never participated in crew in the pas past. >> melissa: that's the way a lot of the schemes worked at various places. there was one of the beginning, they said and ashley got into yale that was not an athlete and they had gone through that coach. i would say -- and i've scared like

shared, somebody at harvard said they were native american but they barely made it through. one professor dershowitz talks about this, that they skate through, i don't think that's true at some of the hardest universities. academically hardest universities. >> kennedy: it's so frustrating. what does this teach kids? what does this teach someone if the parent tells you not to worry about the act? "i told them you have a learning disability, everything will be fine." those kids will be like, "i didn't get a 1420!" for kids and have a hard time testing and work their tails off, and go through prep courses, and do all sorts of extracurricular activities, and work so hard to get grades good enough, and then they are turned down by the schools. that part of it really is heartbreaking. and yet, of course there are rich kids who are always going to get in and they are always going to be taken care of. but that is still a small sliver of the functioning student body.

hopefully. but now you have to ask yourself, how high up does this go? what kind of scrutiny are employers going to give some of these resumes that come in because they may not be as impressive as they were before? >> melissa: i do want to differentiate down don't like -- jessica, vivi could speak to this. you also have to be rich and a total liar, cheater, and willing to do that in front of her kids. it's not just that these people were rich. it's that they were reeling to really cheat and lie. they are not donating and making a donation to the school. they are bribing a coach and paying someone to take the test. it's not a close call, is what i'm saying. >> steve: understand, that's right, but again -- going back to professor dershowitz, he talked about -- i can't remember his metaphor. the proven iceberg, sliding scale. this is the extreme end. you're quite right to characterize it like that. but it's symbolic of a system that allows people to twist it to their ends. >> jessica: that exists all over the world. i taught at the london school of

economics, and it exists there. i was also somebody who tutored kids for their a-levels, the test to take before you get in. parents will pay hundreds of thousands of thousands of pounds to make sure the kids are going to the right universities. i thought it was interesting that he wanted to differentiate between fraud and buying your way into a building. you are right, the component of parents who are willing to put their kids in a room with a stranger and just say, "hey, susie, you are too dumb to do this. catherine is going to take the test for you." they are on another level. we need to address legacy admissions, what buildings you can buy a ticket kids in. i agree with you, i went to an elite private school in new york city. my friends flooded the ivy league. some of them had helped, some of them didn't. but they did well. kids who weren't supposed to be there got worse grades. i don't think the standards are so low that people can't write or read coherently. >> steve: by the way, a lot of having to pay for remedial

coaching for their employees who graduated from the schools. that's happening in our country. >> melissa: charter schools. >> kennedy: how high up? >> jessica: it is important, and i want to add to your point about even the public schools -- we still have a segregated school system in this country on the public school level. this goes to the fundamentals of this country that every child should be -- >> kennedy: and parents should be able to choose where their kids go to school and not be forced into feeling, awful public schools. >> jessica: because what they can afford, yeah. >> kennedy: school choice allows the many more options. [laughter] >> melissa: mounting calls for impeachment by house democrats, and now house speaker nancy pelosi sticking a clear stance on the issue. saying that impeding president trump may not be what's best for the country. why some members are breaking rank and defying the speaker's lead. that debate is on deck. ♪ ns, because i know there are so many of you who have served our country honorably. whether it's two years,

four years or thirty-two years like myself. one of the benefits we as a country give our veterans is eligibility for a va loan for up to 100% of your home's value. so if you need money for your family, call newday usa. with automatic authority from the va, we can say yes when banks say no. call 1-833-844-6702 i have fantastic news for veteran homeowners who need cash. with home values rising all across the country, now's the time to use your valuable va home loan benefit. newday usa can help you refinance and get 54,000 dollars or more and lower your payments by 600 dollars a month. and since they've been granted automatic authority by the va, newday can say yes when banks say no. so if you're a veteran homeowner who needs cash, now's the time to call newday usa. go to newdayusa.com or call 1-833-844-6702

but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth... are you in good hands?

>> kennedy: has begun its cozy taking impeachment off the table. the party took the house majority. telling "the washington post" magazine, "are not for impeachment. impeachment is so divisive to the country, unless there's something so compelling and overwhelming come out of it we should go down that path because it divides the country. and he's just not worth it." several house democrats called for president trump's impeachment when he took office, including john yarmouth, who is not cheat dominic changing his mind. watch. >> we are essentially in the beginning of an impeachment process. judiciary committee is holding

them, the oversight committee, intelligence committee. i happen to believe there is sufficient evidence of abuse of power. filing the monuments clause. speech emoluments! sounds like lotion perry [laughter] they said it would be a misfire to move ahead with impeachment now. watch. >> right now nancy pelosi is right. if we were to start proceedings based on the violation of federal elections campaign law, a couple things happen. we spent a year doing that and probably not much else. and there's not a lot of people out in america who say, "guys, get transportation infrastructure done. i'm worried about educating my kid, i worry about health care." that'll get set aside. i don't like we see this every day in congress. republicans will not vote against this president paid the probability to get a conviction in the senate is pretty close to zero. >> kennedy: that's right, as politico's capital bureau chief puts it, "pelosi is doing every house democrat a favor here on impeachment. she has said versions of this

before but leaned into it harder than ever. this takes pressure off individual dems to be for or against impeachment questions for they can just point to pelosi and blame her." let's talk a little bit more about this, steve hilton. is that the case? is nancy pelosi offering her caucus cover, or has she completely lost control? >> steve: i think what she's doing is trying to get back some control. i think what she's saying is totally disingenuous. she's trying to make out that, "well, we don't want to bother about all the soap with impeachment. we want to focus on the things we are elected to do, health care, whatever." of course, the impeachment part is just one small part of an overall strategy of obstruction and investigation, and this obsession they have with trying to find scandal on this presidency. so you can't take this seriously unless she also says to all the heads of the committees who have been sending out the 81 requests for information, shift, and all the rest of them. "stop what you're doing, stop

obsessing about investigating this president, and focus on real issues." she's not thing any of that. that's all going to continue. >> kennedy: and them record with all that. this is very interesting, because impeachment works. let's say nadler, shift, and waters have their way. and they are able to find they are able to find something the various committees. some how impeachment passes house. either you secede and impeach the president, and then you have this, and then you have president pants. or you fail and he becomes a victim and a folk hero to his base >> jessica: she said a lot more, including, "we will have to wait and see." she is to a certain degree hedging here. she is very clear -- we have oversight committees for a reason. just like republicans use them, we are going to do our job. if you look at the 2018

election, we want issues. the issue of health care. she knows looking to 2020 that people won't be as motivated to vote if it is an election purely based on, "let's get donald trump out of office." the way to get them out as of the ballot box. i think he's being extremely smart, as she has been through her entire career. and i love the giving people covered. she did that in 2018, as well. she told people who had to campaign on not supporting her, "go ahead and do it. i will see you when you win and we'll talk about it." spew when are we that customer do we know she said that? >> jessica: she went in with people, like connor lam -- >> melissa: that's what i think this is, giving them cove cover -- >> jessica: do what you gotta do. >> lisa: she's also been there long enough to see things for what they are, from a pragmatic standpoint in the sense that republicans control the senate. so even if the house brings forth an impeachment proceeding, the senate is the jury and the judge. and there is no way you're going to get 67 votes in the senate to

convict president trump, particularly at a time where there are no established crime stephen be talking about impeachment from the beginning. i'm not done yet. also, nancy pelosi also understands that the democratic house majority is not built with these -- these democrats that are republican have been leaning districts. if you look at the new coalition that is legibly made up of more moderate democrat members of congress, 22 out of the 30 members are all in republican-leaning districts. see can't lose those guys, either. when you bring a vote for impeachment forward, that's going to hurt those members. >> melissa: but what about rashida tlaib? she said to impeach him. that's what's wonderful about it. you get to pick the person you're going to stand behind. your democrat, based on your district, you can either lined up of divine needs of lucy and say, "i was listening to her. i'm not about impeachment." where you can, "i'm not like that." >> jessica: it's a great time to be a democrat is what we are

all saying here. [laughter] >> kennedy: there's no such thing as democrat. it is factored into two clear parties. i don't see you, jessica! a >> lisa: raise your hand, jessica. >> kennedy: a champion in the me too movement may be in deep yogurt. over her handling of a sexual harassment claim. how kirsten gillibrand is pushing back and whether her excellent nation will be enough for voters. we've got it, next. >> as we do in all cases, we take these kinds of allegations very seriously. we conducted a thorough and professional investigation, and the person who was accused was punished. ♪ in ensure max protein... to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. (straining) i'll take that. (cheers) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. in two great flavors. billions of problems. dry mouth? parched mouth? cotton mouth? there's a therabreath for you. therabreath oral rinse and lozenges.

help relieve dry mouth using natural enzymes to soothe and moisturize. so you can... breathe easy, there's therabreath at walmart. your insurance rates skyrocket you could fix it with a pen. how about using that pen to sign up for new insurance instead? for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. switch and you could save $782 on home and auto insurance. call for a free quote today. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

♪ >> lisa: welcome back. democratic senator kirsten gillibrand is speaking out after one of her female aides resigned last year in protest over her handling of her sexual harassment complaints. the 2020 contender, who has made

fighting sexual assault the focus of her political career, saying she and her office did a thorough investigation. listen to this. >> we did a thorough and complete investigation. we took, as all offices, when you have a claim of sexual harassment the first thing you need to do is believe the allegations so you can do a thorough and professional investigation with the assistance of employment counsel. so that's what we've done. i will always look to improve my processes, with my new chief of staff prayed with her experience we will look to see how we can improve. but this investigation was thorough and professional and the allegations were taken seriously from the very first day. >> lisa: in the meantime, not much coverage of the explosive claims on major networks after this story broke early yesterday morning. according to the media center, abc and nbc did not cover the story at all and they morning shows, while cbs this morning touched on it for just 49 seconds. i will go to first on this. kirsten gillibrand, during the kavanaugh confirmation hearing, she said one credible allegation was enough even though with christine ford, as we know, no

witnesses or corroborating evidence. she also believed deborah ramirez. as your member, the new yorker said they couldn't find anyone to corroborate her story. "the new york times" that they interviewed several dozen people and confront anyone to back the story. so why wasn't her staffer's words enough given the standards she laid out? >> jessica: i don't think that's a standard she laid out. she's also on record as one of the first people try to push al franken out of the senate. she had to defend that decision when she launched her presidential campaign. she said we had a credible accusation. "i stand by my decision." we all miss senator franken dearly, but this was the right thing to to do. christine blasey ford had a story that a majority of americans actually -- >> lisa: why is her staff are still there, then? >> jessica: but apparently they were it cleared by this investigation. >> lisa: but it was an internal decision by people on the staff. >> jessica: all over the country people run internal investigations. media companies. we had it, cbs had a come nbc has had it. it concluded that people did or

didn't do certain things. which is why matt lauer is gone. >> melissa: i think one of the things you are talking about, in this case, according to reports the victim in this case said the office did not reach out to two key former staffers whom the woman repeatedly said could help corroborate her claims of inappropriate contact. they felt there was evidence there as they went through this case. there was evidence there that she had ignored. i think the point you are trying to make is a very good one, in the sense that it is one thing to stand on the outside. you look at another case, you say, "well, you have to believe that person." as we all experience, it's quite another when you are on the inside and some scandal near you is threatening your ability to do your job. or threatening your livelihood and your career that you've built. you feel like, "why am i collateral damage because there is somebody in my organization?" in the human tendency is to not believe, and to try to make it go away.

she has been quick to jump on other people when they have succumbed to that human frailty, but now it appears that she herself may have come to that. >> lisa: is it just that, either, steve? you look at hillary clinton, she faced the same thing where it hit home. she had a staff or bring forward an allegation, she kept the one who was accused of misbehavior on staff. and moved to the female staffer to another part of the campaign. is it what melissa is saying, where it's just close to home? tough to see? or is it may be a weaponization of #metoo #metoocostsdownmikewhenityourpo liticalinterest >> steve: kamala harris is another one where was this issue. in response to the scandals in virginia when you have these incredibly self-righteous condemnations wanted somebody who is not their team. when it's on their team at the different story. this is the mess you get into when you weaponize, exactly as

you said, these very sensitive and very difficult issues for political gain. >> lisa: kennedy, i want to gave been here before you have to go. >> kennedy: i think the question on politically is how it affects voter perception of her. i think there will be a negative perception. if you combine this -- there's almost nothing she could say that would give her words more weight than her former staffer who says that she's a total hypocrite. a lot of voters already feel that way based on her targeting of al franken. so i think in the long run it does hurt. >> lisa: great point. the future of the united kingdom is on the line this week, starting with a high-stakes vote on brexit today and parliament. prime minister theresa may suffer another stunning defeat? stay tuned. ♪ my experience with usaa

has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today.

own a home, and need cash? ♪ you should know about the newday va home loan for veterans. it lets you borrow up to

100 percent of your home's value. not just 80 percent like other loans. and that can mean a lot more money for you and your family. with our military service, veterans like us have earned a valuable va benefit. the right to apply for a va home loan. the newday va loan lets you refinance your mortgages, consolidate your credit card debt, put cash in the bank, and lower your payments over 600 dollars a month. newday usa has been granted automatic authority by the va. they could close your loan in as little as 30 days. so call newday usa. they look at your whole financial picture, not just your credit score. and they'll do everything they possibly can to get you approved. call today. and get the financial peace of mind every veteran deserves. go to newdayusa.com, or call 1-877-236-1855.

>> melissa: fox news alert, former "empire" actor, jussie smollett, arriving at a chicago courthouse moments ago. a judge is expected to rule whether cameras will be permitted inside future proceedings. smollett was recently indicted on 16 felony counts for allegedly lying to chicago police about being attacked by two max man. he claimed they assaulted him and yelled at racial and homophobic slaves the future of the united kingdom could be on the line this week as parliament votes on prime minister theresa may's plan to leave the european union in 17 days. the first high-stakes vote, a little over two hours from now on a new version of her brexit deal, which lawmakers overwhelmingly rejected back in january. even the prime minister's attorney general has expressed doubt about the proposal. if the agreement fails, parliament could vote two more times this week to decide

whether to leave the european union without a deal or to postpone brexit altogether. >> we don't want to leave with nothing. they're voting on at noon. to be quite honest, it's frightening. >> i really don't care. either agree to the agreement, or just get us out. or just keep us in. make some kind of decision. fed up. >> melissa: i have no idea what that first guy said. am i alone in that? i don't know. be sure to translate -- [laughter] >> steve: the northeast of england is famous for its very, very difficult to understand accent. >> melissa: that's what that was? >> steve: to train introduce this idea to the market audience, the northeast another way to go pray [laughs] >> melissa: it seems like you're asking parliament to agree to something you will never reach you. we keep asking them to vote on an agreement to leave, which the

people want. >> steve: yes. >> melissa: but it's against them so they want to agree. so how does this whole thing -- >> steve: that is the fundamental point. you put your finger on it. this deal, it's not really deal. it's a compromise to try to get out of brexit as quickly as possible. but it's not new, it's not different pair that's why it's going to go down again. it really reveals this fundamental problem which is that you've got people who voted for a big change. they voted just like they did here in 2016, for a real rejection of the policy agenda. it's been the ruling ideology for so long. just as you are seeing here, with the establishment and all its different forms, they are trying to overturn it. and say, "hang on a second, you can't have what you voted for. because we, the experts on the smart elite people, don't agree." and that's the contradiction of the heart of this.

parliament doesn't want to actually implement the will of the people. >> kennedy: i love freedom, i love that people in great britain are thrown off the yolk of the e.u., which is very stifling. i get that, they want economic mobility and prosperity. i'm all for it. >> steve: and sovereignty. accountability. they want the people they like to be in charge of the laws of the land. speak to my question is, how does it affect me customer here in the united states, how does brexit affect me? >> steve: very little, frankly. it's an example of the same phenomenon. that's the connection. you can say that it'll have some impact on trade and so on. but i don't think you will see a big difference. the real point is that it's part of this worldwide story of people saying, "we want not just a change of party at an election, we want a really big change in the way the world is run." and it goes back to our first story. speech of the power grab in the elite. >> steve: it goes back to this story about the sense of a rigged system that suits the rich and the powerful and the

well-connected. and that populist sentiment. you are seeing in america on the left and the right. you are singing in the u.k. with brexit. in brazil, the new president there. you got european elections in may and are going to see a whole bunch of parties across the e.u. getting good results because people want this big change. isn't that true, some left on the right customer people are sick of powerful hang onto power with a death grip in all parties end of her culture. >> jessica: difficult. outsider candidates left and right, bernie sanders donald trump with did well. what's different here is that now the people don't want the thing that they voted for. >> melissa: how do you know that? >> jessica: the polling tells us that. it is true, you can look it up. 2020 -- >> steve: of course people of the change! they want an end to the corruption. that's not correct. >> jessica: they were sold lies. if you look at the campaign that put up that statistic, that you would get 350 million pounds back in every week if you would

for. nigel faraj pumped up a race-based campaign that said that people, darker people -- there was an ad and you know what i was talking about. dark people running to the countryside. coming for your jobs. it's going to be unsafe. xenophobia was coursing through the bexar campaign as it was through the 2016 election as well. >> steve: that is so offensive, frankly. to me personally, as someone who was part of that campaign. didn't make any of those arguments, and also to the millions of people who voted for brexit. not for any of those reasons. but for a very basic reason, which is that they want their country to be a sovereign country where the people that they elect make the laws and can't be countermanded by bureaucrats in another part of the euro. that's what they voted for. not racism. and it's so offensive to me to hear you say that. >> jessica: i worked on boris johnson's reelection campaign mayor, a big supporter of the campaign. i do not mean to offend you.

i want to put the facts out there, that while people wanted economic populism, there was also a strain of zenith will be in this campaign. and that matters. what i was talking about the nhs matters. the that could be bled by was in was about that. >> steve: that's not true. they want brexit. they want to vote to be delivered. >> lisa: can you mention parallels for 2016? i think it's also offensive for the millions who voted for president term, that there is xenophobia. >> jessica: it's undeniable. >> melissa: we will keep arguing. he will tell you what happens after the break. paul ryan with a prediction on the 2020 20 white house racing thaf it ends up being about president trump's personality he will lose. is ryan right? we will debate. using a after months of wearing only a tiger costume,

we're finally going on the trip i've been promising. because with expedia, i saved when i added a hotel to our flight. ♪ so even when she outgrows her costume, we'll never outgrow the memory of our adventure together. unlock savings when you add select hotels to your existing trip. only when you book with expedia.

the best simple salad ever?d great tasting, heart-healthy california walnuts. so simple, so good. get the recipes at walnuts.org. i kept putting it off... what was i thinking? ok, mr. jones... we're all done. i told you it was easy. with life line screening, getting screened for unknown health conditions is so quick, painless and affordable, you'll wonder why you hadn't done it before. so if you're over age 50, call now and schedule an appointment near you. for just $149- a savings of over 50%- you'll receive a package of five screenings that go beyond your doctor's annual check-up. ultrasound technology looks inside your arteries for plaque

that builds up as you age and increases your risk of stroke and heart disease. after all, 4 out of 5 people who have a stroke, their first symptom is a stroke. so call today and start with a free health assessment to understand your best plan of action. so why didn't we do this earlier? life line screening. the power of prevention. call now to learn more.

>> melissa: more "outnumbered" in just a moment. first, let's check in with harris and see what's happening in washington, d.c., today. first be 26. harris faulkner! >> harris: so much, people here live our show. love from the hill on that. i'm in washington, d.c., obviously. were white house press secretary sarah sanders will join me on set here, a series of issues to get through, as well as seeker of the house lucy sayg the president is not worth impeaching. thursday's senate vote on the

president's emergency declaration, the president telling breitbart he does not want immigrants coming to the country who are dependent upon welfare. but that democrats do want that. and democrats trashing his 2020 budget proposal. white house press secretary sarah sanders on all of that right here on set, the top of the hour, just a couple minutes away. back to you. >> melissa: looking forward to it. president trump can be beaten by democrat in 2020. those words reportedly coming from former public and speaker of the house paul ryan, speaking at an event in florida yesterday. ryan, who chose not to run for reelection after serving a bit more than three years as speaker, tepidly so, reportedly told attendees, "the person who defines that race is going to win the race. if this is about donald trump and his personality, he isn't going to win it." lisa, what's going on here?

is paul ryan dipping his little pinky toe into the 2020 race? is he the savior that never-trumper's have been paying for? >> lisa: know, know that by the way you answered the question ! [laughs] there's going be some kind of formidable publican challenger. it's such a joke. it's an event happened. they are behind president trump or they will be heading into 2020. a democratic, generic democrat? which will get through primary field? right now i think people should have verizon bernie sanders. he's on the person who generates a kind of excitement on the left. when you have a crowded primary field, -- >> kennedy: the two cranky white guys debating each have? that's money in bank for voters, at least. what is paul ryan saying here? as he sang the democrats of such a strong field and the president is so deeply flawed on a personality level that he is certainly beatable? >> i think he sang the part about donald trump. i'm not sure he thinks the field

is that strong. paul ryan isn't a particular fan of democrat policies and was in congress of wadden time advocating gives libby see the world and what we are trying to advance. but i think is making a point that all of us now, which is that donald trump is vulnerable in certain areas. certainly a moral character, if you were to make a race about that. he's not going to do that well unless we are running harvey ryan stain on 's harvey weinstein on our side or something. [laughter] >> steve: that's an idea! >> jessica: the threshold is not lower with candidates to get through. you talking about -- kamala harris is getting a lot of enthusiasm. there are reports out this morning that joe biden may be jumping in. >> melissa: oh, please. >> jessica: once he is and you will see more clearly where the field is. >> kennedy: we have more words with more people in a moment. "outnumbered" continues. biopharmaceutical researchers.

pursuing life-changing cures in a country that fosters innovation here, they find breakthroughs...

like a way to fight cancer by arming a patient's own t-cells... because it's not just about the next breakthrough... it's all the ones after that. by using the powerful va home loan benefitcash we've earned with our service. the newday va cash out loan can help you get over 50,000 dollars to pay off the credit card debt, put cash in the bank, and reduce your payments by over 500 dollars a month. and since newday's been granted automatic authority by the va, they can say yes when banks say no. get the financial security you've earned and deserve. call 1-833-844-6706 >> melissa: i can't leave this show without pointing out that steve hilton brought a stuffed animal to the set.

>> steve: one lucky guy? one lucky publican! i told you i would do it. here it is on the couch. >> melissa: is that your kid's kid's? >> steve: we had a deal. he's been on the couch. >> melissa: that's well-traveled. here's harris. >> harris: fox news alert, federal authorities are charging more than four dozen people in a sweeping college admissions scheme, accusing wealthy parents including two famous actresses of paying millions of dollars to buy their kids' education. "outnumbered overtime," i'm harris faulkner. live from a nation's capital today. actresses felicity huffman and full house's lori loughlin are among those named in the alleged bribery ring. officials say parents spend anywhere from $200,000 to six and a half million dollars to guarantee their kids' admission into elite universities. prosecutors calling it