it does not behoove him to hang onto this plan for the next two years. >> fairpoint. we will see what happens. thank you very much for all our guests and thanks for joining us. do join us next sunday when the next revolution will be televised. : : >> welcome america this is "life, liberty & levin". everybody knows who you are. there is a reason for that. you are the like though word one - - woodward and bernstein of our time they are not anymore. but you dug into the story about russia and the obama

administration, spying and what i consider the greatest political scandal and not modern history but all of history and i am a historian. for two years this collusion narrative has been pushed by the hillary campaign, dnc, propaganda, and the media. you are professional journalists. john, i will go to first. how do you explain your doggedness? it's almost instinctive and you go after it. but yet the vast majority of others in your profession see it and dave are.

had you explain that? mimic the romanticism with watergate everybody once the next watergate we try to aspire to that. we grew up in the area had never fall in love with your story. just follow the facts. when we follow the facts they did not add up to the story of the mainstream media and the obama administration was telling us. talking to the very intelligence people that were brief in congress behind closed doors saying we don't have evidence of collusion within the numbers say there is evidence like adam schiff and mark warner. we talk to people and kept hearing it is not there. this is a dirty political trick. stick to the facts and you will get the truth. that's what we did we follow the facts. mark: why are there so few journalists who follow the fact facts? we back i don't know. i don't understand i don't know their personal decisions but i know my own. when i started as a journalist many decades ago or more, the first thing i was taught you are a voice for the voiceless and your objectivity is everything as much as you can

be objective. we all have our own personal feelings. we try to put those aside to be dispassionate. but we are really there to tell the story. it is not our story. and we rely on multiple sources regardless. whether it is john brennan or james clapper and we put a lot of emphasis into senior officials. even john and i discussed this. starting at "the washington times". that is where we met. i came from california i heard john was coming from the coast to go to the washington times and i was very excited. he came on board i was at the forward desk he sent me on my way to afghanistan and said bring back stories and i did. i spent time on the ground

with soldiers. mark: you both have a journalist for some time and you have heard that congress had to say they are very concerned about the media outlets. you are concerned also. >> what do you do? you just keep soldiering on to show a real journalist or is there a need for something more or bigger? >> that's a great question. i think the industry has to have a moment of introspection not just for a couple days and move on but how do we practice journalism in the 21st century with twitter and facebook and all of these outlets? one of the great signs i saw coming that was so far that

when twitter started making these extraordinary expressions of opinion i would be fired if i ever did that 20 years ago but it opened up a bottle of champagne now journalists felt they could say whatever they wanted nobody cared about my opinion when i started but we have strayed so far how does that happen and resolve we lost a lot of our credibility mimic the public is very well aware of that and and how they view journalism there is a lack of trust. every great editor has told me you don't write a story behind the desk you ask for documents and look at their face and ask for the motive what is it? sometimes it may be selfish or the truth but we need to know what the motive is.

i saw shifting of journalists and the newsrooms they would never leave their desk especially in washington d.c. there is a big bubble where people felt that was better to be friends especially with president obama they really wanted to be friends and go to their parties and dinners. it became very difficult for them to tell the story to tell the truth to make exactly sitting behind the desk tweeting people are out in wisconsin and iowa they would have seen this connection between real americans and the president that we completely missed as news organizations

my editor said to me what makes a great journalist their soul. the soul of their shoe if it is worn out then they are doing a good job. [laughter] mark: you both operate in an area of journalism where you deal with shady characters or shadows. like the iranians do have unusual experiences? . >> people come with motives you have to see what they are to control the motive. that most of the people that approached me have good intentions. mark: have you ever been approached in an unusual way? . >> here's a story about a mailbox we just began working

on the embassy of you stories we had just gone on the sean hannity show now a sudden rise of the unmasking's there was a blue sedan sitting outside my mailbox there were two gentlemen from the government and stepped out and said are you mister solomon they said we just saw you on sean hannity we want to talk to you we cannot tell you much because it's classified but if you keep digging you will find out the united states intelligence committee contest committee was used for opposition research we need these people to catch the bad guys if we use that we will not have those over the next terrorist attack we need you to find out what happened and that's all they told me 1130 that night i wrote this long e-mail of everything she

responds right back let's get started that this is much bigger than a scandal. >> how long ago? . >> march 2017. we were getting tips we saw what was happening to general flynn i remember being approached let's say federal law enforcement officers who told me you really need to dig into what is happening with attorney general flynn apparently there is a lot going on inside the fbi. look at andrew mccabe and focus on these characters. i started to focus to take a step back with what is going on and the more we started to investigate, little by little we peeled back the layers of the onion.

it really felt like that. that it can get much worse than this. >> i absolutely believe general flynn was a target from the beginning absolutely. . >> keep in mind look at that time with a massive reorganization of the intelligence community there are a lot of power fall constituencies that liked the status quo he was talking about reorganizing that i think opportunity struck behind his back and all you have to do is take james comey's own comments he was tricked into the interview before he could get lawyers the man who oversaw the fbi. >> that a man who spent 33 years of his life dedicated to this nation his service

overseas was exemplary and without him i have been told the assistant deputy directors of the department of defense he was the third leg to get al qaeda targeting all of the operatives in afghanistan i talk to soldiers who said he will stand by us and was always there for us and they just basically destroyed this man's life. they turn his life upside down. i knew which there was a purpose for that because he had access to everything. this is a man who angered the cia, headed to dia, he had connections all over this town and knew where the bodies were buried. he knew about benghazi and all of these operations and president obama and his team early knew they had to get him out of the way quick.

mark: they already tried and they failed. he became a top adviser to the president of the united states i hope he is at the top of the list for a pardon. ladies and gentlemen,, don't forget almost every week night watch levintv. go to blazetv/mark or call t five t5 we will be right back. ♪ do you love me now that i can dance? ♪ applebee's 3 course meal. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. i never thought i'd say this but i found bladder leak underwear that's actually pretty. always discreet boutique. hidden inside is a super absorbent core that quickly turns liquid to gel. so i feel protected and pretty. always discreet boutique. (coughing) need a change of scenery? kayak searches hundreds of travel sites

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mark: sarah carter john solomon now with collusion there is a change in the narrative. to see what the prosecutor has to say we'll take it from there the prosecutor made it emphatic the quotation marks from the attorney general bar he says a legal matter i could bring a case on collusion but there is no collusion. we also know that the russians did try to get trump campaign people to participate and they didn't. you think there would be celebration of both parties but now they change the narrative they want to see everything we want to see grand jury information.

we want to see fbi notes that they can under separation of powers we want to see this we want to see that and we don't trust it besides the obstruction issue, miller didn't take a position the deputy attorney general said this doesn't cut it under department of justice standards. these constant investigations, the refusal of eric's wall well from californi california, he doesn't accept the fact the dossier was fake. where to be go from here? . >> it is a matter of political intention that is a dangerous that the truth is justified for the political outcome you see this folly play out.

democrats put their trust in miller he didn't come to the conclusion they wanted so now they change the stadium now they are renaming the stadium is not bob mueller stadium anymore not until they get what they want but the good news bob mueller follow the law and found the conclusions are factually based there are a lot of laws governing what the government or the executive branch can or cannot do i expect the white house to play that up to protect grand jury information and put forward some of those unreasonable request congress is making it will play out and end up in the courts it's a way to extend the narrative. >>. >> congress under article one can procreate and legislate they are not free to conduct criminal investigation. >> that's right its oversight they've had multiple hearings

so with the rest of this so-called scandal with clinton and the dnc have the democrats shown any oversight in those areas? . >> absolutely not none whatsoever what the democrats want is to continually investigate president trump and his family and finances and the taxes and what he ate for dinner and who he hangs out with and how long he plays golf and it is a never ending trump focus. millions of people that voted for president trump will not buy this anymore. for those independents and the people in the middle that want to see our nation with policy issues and things that matter to americans, health car care, schools, education, infrae , they will be sick of this. >> you think there is a political backlash? . >> i think it will be a huge political backlash just from

talking to people around the country. they are exhausted of this investigation and realize now based that robert mueller walked on water for the democrats. nobody could criticize him. whether his involvement with anthrax or the atlanta city bombing or anything if you criticized him at all, now he doesn't now all of a sudden he didn't give them what he wanted they have egg on their face to be honest they are frustrated they realize they did not assess the situation correctly whether they believed it or lied about it. mark: to journalists, as i listen to you with egg on their face and do not pursue what they should have pursued, mostly the truth, journalism has given us a voice.

has the media led this corrupt effort? or are they pushing the corrupt effort or are they just the mouthpiece collectively? with exceptions. >> which is it or do we know? . >> at the end of the day you are only as good as your sources you rely upon. if you only talk to one side or one perspective then when you look back at some of the stories look at 2017 that is a seminal story but it stated unequivocally senior tramp trump officials met with russian officials to discuss collusion. >> did that happen? . >> it did not. not only that james comey testified it did not happen and is not a fan of president trump and calls it erroneous

but to this day in "the new york times" has not corrected that story we asked for the fax with the direct denial of those people who have access that is what hurts journalism credibility anything you gain from the watergate era has been eroded by the performance of the media on this story. >> i was thinking the same thing of the mcclatchy story that said michael :-colon traveled this was the second story it's not that difficult to find out if michael :-colon went to prague even if there was a dossier you called the state department that he fly out of the country on this date? was he in prague? know he wasn't. >> i have a question for both of you. what did barack obama know? we will be right back.

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. >> live from america's news headquarters. man is behind bars suspected of killing a university south carolina student. hunters found the body in a rural area. samantha went missing from downtown columbia south carolina after a night out with friends. the 24 -year-old was arrested he was driving a black chevy impala like the car she was last seen entering. friends believe she missed took the car for the rideshare she had ordered. at the santa anita park two days after it opened. the 23rd horse to die at the track since december 26. santa anita was closed since mad as officials try to figure out the reason for the newest death. now back to "life, liberty & levin". mark: sarah carter and john solomon, what did obama know? there was a lot of information that is late by the department of justice and others hillary clinton and the dossier at the senior levels of the fbi senior levels of intelligence agencies the president gets a national intelligence briefing

twice a day i happen to know as chief of staff attorney general if we have a pfizer application the attorney general would take it to the president there is a political aspect to it is barack obama the only human being who did not know anything? been a great question. i would like to see a long in-depth interview along with hillary clinton to answer the questions. it is unequivocal what did barack obama know? was he briefed on the fisa? why wasn't he interested in russian collusion before the election? how much did you know, about the operation?

what was going on? were your brief did you get help from a foreign government when you were secretary of state with foreigners helping your campaign? those are questions that were never asked and i hope they will both submit to an interview. mark: should the republicans with six house committees look at what mueller did and should the republicans insist if they want transparency with a full investigation to know what obama and valerie jarrett and susan rice and everyone in that inner circle new and they should bring them to testify. they can do it behind closed doors. >> absolutely. senator lindsey graham has spoken about this to be a thorough investigation senator rand paul has made the same statement and the hill wrote about it as well. we absolutely need full transparency.

from the people that would have been directly involved in this matter. that is john brennan. james clapper. samantha powers the former un ambassadors and all of her extraordinary unmasking we have never seen before over 260 people unmasked even in the last days of her tenure as un ambassador and leaks all of the leaks. twenty-seven apparent investigations at the department of justice under jeff sessions so what has gone on with those? that the american public we deserve that much we deserve to know what was happening. because every attempt to leak names or listen in on conversations for all the

people he was speaking to it was either geared at removing president trump or impeaching him or stopping him from becoming president that is a duly elected president of the united states of america we do not weaponize our intelligence for that. mark: how many leaks out of the fbi hurt hillary clinton's campaign? how many text messages that were focused on hurting her campaign? none that we are aware of. none. we now know andrew mccabe was leading a coup effort this is my opinion he does book tours and is celebrated by the media. should this not also be a demand of the republicans as they go into this they demand they want to get to the bottom of this for everything that occurred?

. >> i always go back because it's what is about to come the last few days of the barack obama tenure the very end of october beginning of november barack obama justice department and the fbi walk into the fisa court to say we forgot to disclose all of these violations that have happened the court was shocked of civil liberties the fourth amendment it was all of congress so that story that we broke in march at the mailbox it was the day before. so why does barack obama wait until just before the election day to have the justice department say we forgot to tell you? cheating on fisa and asking at the unprecedented rate

expansion of powers, expansion of reporting information on fisa and wiretaps and espionage more agencies and departments making it more likely to be leaked on their way out the door. y-letter? . >> to set up trump? . >> certainly the changes the secret information to more agencies 278 disseminate. >> exactly the decision to self to close that if we're not in we better cover our tale so what if he wins so they wanted to insulate themselves to disclose at the last minute but that paints the picture of the intelligence apparatus that was knowingly abused up until the very end at the last moment that is where we come in. mark: now the fisa court. these judges see all this. all of this took place while

they sat on their hands. don't forget almost every weeknight watch me on levintv. go to blazetv/mark or call 844-levin-tv we will be right back. ke how you get 24/7 access to licensed agents with geico. hmm? yeah, you just go online, or give them a call anytime. you don't say. yep. now what will it take to get 24/7 access to that lemon meringue pie? pie! pie's coming! that's what it takes, baby. geico®. great service from licensed agents, 24/7.

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but then the magic happens. and all of that falls away. (amazement & laughter) it's the experience of waking up and seeing things the way you saw them before they became ordinary. ♪i need never get old i'm looking for that experience of wonder. mark: we have the secret courts and congress set them up because there are occasions we have incredibly sensitive classified information. things going on or if it is an open court we will not catch the bad guys or the bad government so we understand this system but it is important for judges to be on their toes the only people in the courtroom is the judge and the government the people who want the warrant to spy on somebody among other things

did these judges let us down has there been a single congressional hearing where congress has the authority to oversee? the mac i certainly believed with the information we have gathered and that i'm gathering from congress i spoke about this multiple times with the house intelligence committee he is extraordinarily concerned about the secret court of the fisa court that has this authority the top dog of the dc district court she is the chief and she can call for the evidentiary hearing now on carter page. there is enough evidence there is enough information made public and already partially the warrant has been made partially public to say okay we need the evidentiary hearing to find out if there was exculpatory information withheld from the court and we need to find out what is going

on with this case we need to find out if the government lied to us. mark: is not even we it is she? protecting the courtroom the judge protects the integrity of the law to protect the justice system and the judge blew it and the judge blew it and there may have been for judges for all we know because of the information or the lack of information provided to that court upon which she or others issued a counter intelligence warrant. >> violated all fourth amendment rights. >> so why isn't this judge or any other, why aren't they calling evidentiary hearings to hold people in contempt or send them to jail? there hasn't been a single hearing. >> no. there has not. i know that congress wants

this to happen. i don't know the process of the secret court if it does not happen but i can tell you that in an interview i conducted about a month ago with the ranking member nunez he said absolutely if nothing is done they will revise everything with the fisa court and the fisa act because there was nobody there to defend you as an american in the court if the government wants to spy on you or violate your rights you have no idea. carter page had no idea up until this started to break . this is an extreme violation of our civil rights of liberties. >> in an earlier time when robert mueller just took over the fbi the fisa court operated the right way. bob miller was hauled in

personally as the fbi director to say how you fix this? we will not stand for this and that should be a very uncomfortable position they were reeling in the criticism and it is one of the most interesting elements of the lawsuit one of the things the fbi had done to seek a fisa warrant on their own informant so what happens with carter page he works as the fbi on another russia case they don't tell the court history repeats itself because the fbi did not learn their lesson. mark: they leak the story so they take the story they leaked to a reporter who happily reported it and put it into the pfizer application as

the basis to get the warrant. i am very troubled by this. i don't know if it abolishes the court if they don't oversee it judges have answering to do and the american people need to know the impeachment is a just for the president or vice president but judges also i'm not saying they should be impeached or a hearing of impeachment but a hearing to find what the hell took place where congress really does have legislative oversight because it created it. and there is no interest. >> i think there is a moment coming in the justice department where all the facts will be put into the open. mark: this century? [laughter] . >> i think it will be this summer. >> me to. maybe before summer because we have been working on it for quite some time and inspector general michael horowitz for what it is worth we have heard extraordinarily good things he

is very tightlipped obviously nothing is leaking from the justice department on his investigation, but from what we hear on the periphery he is conducting an extraordinarily thorough investigation and that will be a turning point. mark: when we come back i want to ask you do we need a special counsel to investigate all these areas that have not been looked at? and if we don't who will? how will we fix what took place with the fbi and the department of justice? when we come back. you control your blood sugar around the clock. and with a $0 copay,

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mark: this whole thing has been bizarre the special counsel appointed without any criminal statute being triggered. he is appointed by the individual who recommended that he should fire comey and rosenstein. one of the reasons they give is the firing of comey and that's what he thinks. rosenstein overseas robert mueller as one of his close friends even though he recommended the firing of comey. we got that.

the mueller investigation goes wherever it has to go, 13 countries, manhattan that all this other stuff over here but he just keeps running in circles the hillary campaign the dnc and the dossier individuals are involved. all kinds of things taking place you might want to look. that is not part of my responsibility i'm going after tax fraud and mail fraud this one and that one for false statements we have flynn. what about this? this drives half of the country nuts. we need a special counsel to complete what he started? . >> there is a new sheriff in town bill barr a lot of this

could be handled by a nonpartisan justice department just fine there are some things that need to be looked at that have been shoved aside for a long time. if he could do that with his independent he could go that way but the justice department is good at solving issues and outside of the justice department after 9/11 we didn't want that to be repeated people say we don't want the shenanigans that we have a special commission the fbi has a say we miss that we did not connect those dots we have to have the fbi to say what they did wrong the only way to do that is to have a public hearing or prosecution to make sure that people who are ever attempted to play with the law or play politics with the intelligence community will not. >> i agree i have suggested this myself to give them subpoena power but they cannot force people to testify what do you think? . >> based on what i'm hearing

from all sources i have talked to and i get phone calls on this all the time i have to be completely honest it is every day. a lot of people are concerned that attorney general bar cannot get an independent prosecutor to really handle this. i know that is a concern. i have seen more and more people lean toward a special psychic counsel which drives everybody's nuts because i could take forever. it is very frustrating. it's frustrating for so many people that were closely involved and want to see justice that they really are demanding something be done. the most important thing is that attorney general bar not sweep any of this under the rug but go on the offensive with the fbi and doj allow horowitz to do his report find out what john huber was doing.

mark: i think he placed himself into witness protection. >> i do to. [laughter] he has been hard to find a nobody wants to answer a question i contacted doj what has he been doing is he living in utah where is he? . >> this couldn't happen in real life last november. >> us attorney who was asked to investigate all things trump. >> i get a hold of the document that was put together by professional law enforcement people there may have been criminality inside the clinton foundation. the story comes out and gets attention congress is about to hold hearings in john huber's office says can i have a copy they said we said that to you nine months ago and he did not even know he had it.

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mark: sarah carter john solomon i look at it this way. the president of the united states was a victim of an outrageous scandal. and he is investigated as the perpetrator. now it's time to find out who the perpetrators are. is our government prepared to do that? . >> they have to be. they have to be prepared to do that. i would also agree on that point prior to getting elected if somebody likes them or not that's not the point.

>> so based politically he was the target of a group of people that were intent to take him out or impeach them to ensure he was not elected. every time he tried to defend himself come every time he opened his mouth or sent out a tweet or out of frustration because he is the targe target, look, now we will just accuse him of obstructing. he couldn't even defend himself. there is something wrong with that. that's up to the department of justice to investigate. . >> that there was for an intrusion into the election and we are beginning to have

evidence that the people love ukraine were collaborating to use their official powers that is an investigation to give it to attorney general bar if that happens then all of this will tie together people in the ukraine were colluding for this whole story. mark: how many committees in congress i think ron johnson have a ukraine hearing scheduled. there is that story that is important to develop in this narrative. mark: i will just say this. as an american citizen you are

few and far between that is a fact. thank you very much. it has been a pleasure. see you next time on "life, liberty & levin"