see you back here tomorrow. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> melissa: fox news alert, big narrative elements from attorney general william barr as he went back to capitol hill today testifying before a senate committee facing new questions over the pending release of the special counsel report. the attorney general raising eyebrows as he discussed concerns over the genesis of the fbi's investigation into the trump campaign. this is "outnumbered" and on melissa francis. here today, fox business network anchor, dagen mcdowell. town hall editor and fox news contributor, katie pavlich. fox news analyst and cohost of "benson & harf" on fox news radio, marie harf. joining us on the couch, "fox & friends weekend" cohost and fox news senior analyst, pete hegseth. and he is "outnumbered." but you are bright blue and matching. >> pete: i'm starting off with a bipartisan town! >> melissa: let's keep going

on that note. attorney general barr today telling lawmakers today that he thinks spying did occur on the trump campaign, calling it a big deal. saying he wants to know if the decision to investigate was supported by evidence. this morning president trump heading on that as well as he departed the white house for events in texas today. the president referencing the attorney general's testimony from yesterday. >> this was an attempt at a coup. it was an attempt to take down the president. and we beat them. hopefully the attorney general -- he mentioned it yesterday, he's doing a great job getting started on going back to the origins of exactly where this all started. >> melissa: chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge's life in washington with more. catherine? >> thank you, melissa, and good afternoon. we just had some additional testimony from the attorney general and he told lawmakers that he is concerned that there was unauthorized

surveillance of the trump campaign. he was pressed on whether there is evidence to back up his concern. he said there is but he was not going to discuss it at this time. as you know, the attorney general is reviewing the genesis of the fbi's counterintelligence investigation that began in late july of 2016. a counterintelligence investigation is not a criminal investigation in the sense that they lead to prosecutions. it's really an opportunity for the fbi to gather information and typically what happens is there is what's called a "defensive briefing" of the target. in this case, the fbi would have told the trump campaign, "look, the russians are looking to infiltrate your operation." but the attorney general just testified in exchange with senator graham that that did not happen. that's one of the anomalies that he would like to get to the bottom of. here is that earlier exchange, the attorney general and democrat jeanne shaheen. >> spying on a political campaign is a big deal. >> so you're not suggesting,

though, that spying occurred. >> i think there was spying that did occur, yes. i think spying did occur. >> well. in addition, what we heard from senators, especially on the democratic side, is that they want to have a more fulsome explanation from the attorney general as to why there will be these four categories of redaction. we've been through the many times. grand jury, ongoing investigations, protecting sources and methods, as well as the privacy of individuals who were not prosecuted under the special counsel investigation. senator patrick lee spoke this morning that there have been exceptions to these rules in the past. here's the senator . >> there is also precedents for sharing grand jury information, as well. especially in high-profile investigations that gain public

interest. hiding swaths of the report from the look scrutiny along the way will only fuel suspicions that have been raised by many. the justice department, which represents the united states, is playing the role of president trump's defense team. >> in addition, we learn from the attorney general this morning is that the special counsel report rollout, if you will, will be in two phases. the public report, with these color-coated redactions, and then he said he will be willing to work with congress in what amounts to a second face to see if there is additional information that can be provided to them as part of their investigations paid once again, here's the attorney general. >> i'm willing to work with the committees. the regulation requires -- it doesn't require, but it has my notification go to the judiciary committees. i intend to take up with the house and the senate judiciary committees, the chair and the

ranking members of each, what other areas they feel they have a need to have access to the information. >> we've got a better sense today, also, on timing. yesterday the attorney general testified within a week, but on the number of occasions this morning he said, "next week." that gets a better sense of when this report will be public. i want to emphasize that several times lawmakers went back to the attorney general to clarify these comments about spying, but he has said that he is concerned there was unauthorized surveillance of the trump campaign during the 2016 election. he wants to understand whether the surveillance was done with a proper predicate. that means significant evidence that would warrant that activity. he also indicated that if there is a problem he believes that it's not an institutional problem within the fbi or the justice department or the intelligence community, but it

may be limited to a handful of individuals, melissa. >> melissa: catherine herridge, terrific reporting is always predicts resting on top of that and we will come back to you as the news warrants. let me bring it back onto the couch. he thinks spying did occur. he was asked several times. his question is, he needs to know if it was properly predicated. the other key thing that we learned there was that it's confirmed he said, yes, normally they would be a defensive briefing where they would have told the trump campaign that the russians were trying to infiltrate whatever it was. that did not occur. these are things he wants to look into. what you make of that? >> pete: big day today. when asked to clarify "spying," he said, "i will say unauthorized surveillance." that's worse than spying. if it's unauthorized, that's even worse. we saw today was the 2016 boomerang effect in full effect. bill barr is playing this completely straight. for people who feel like a group

of people with access to intelligence and power conspired potentially against the candidate because they preferred another candidate, but the wrong candidate got elected so they couldn't cover it up, finally now it's the beginning of an understanding of what truly happened. whether it's bill barr's team at the department of justice or whether it's michael horowitz, the inspector general, we are going to get a sense of what happened in the summer of 2016 and continued into the presidency. that's a big take away. spying surveillance from the attorney general, acknowledgment of it, as we talk about the support it could be a good a bt in this conversation. >> melissa: katy, he says bill barr is playing it straight. you know democrats look the other way. probably this afternoon a lot of people have changed their opinions and they will go on the attack against him. in fact, he was auditioning for this role. you heard them say, "did you spend time alone with president trump when you are at st. patrick's day?" and he said, "no." they said, "what about people said they overheard a conversation about that question right" and he said, "no, i did not." so they are trying to lay out

that he is not playing this straight. >> katie: even if he has spent time with the president of the united states privately, there would be nothing wrong with that. because of the position that the president's and to hire who he wants to work in his administration. so democrats can go down the route of attacking bill barr, someone who has been in this position before who had a great repetition before thinks that is politically polarized on capitol hill as they are now. but he's going to do his job. when he said it's a very serious thing, to me, and it should be to everybody, that they may have been improper spying or surveillance on a political campaign. it's not just about president trump. it's about individual american citizens and their civil liberties. usually department of justice, when they come in with a new administration, they move on. they leave the scandal with the past administration. this is such a big deal, just based on what he knows about it, they are looking into her. catherine herridge talked about the evidence that he's looking into, see all these things were lunch. whether it's the fisa

application of the special counsel. if it was based on the dossier, that's an improper way of using false evidence from a political campaign -- which was the dnc and the clinton campaign -- to get that kind of surveillance on an american citizen. >> melissa: she took a deep breath while you were talking. she's ready to go. >> marie: i want to be clear, what barr said in the code we didn't play, after what we did play, he said, "i'm not suggesting it wasn't adequately predicated. but they are going to exploit." so all of these guesses about whether it was or wasn't, he made very clear, "i'm not trying to suggest it wasn't adequately predicated." >> melissa: he just wants to make sure it is. i understood that. >> marie: carter page revealed it was done for the proper reasons. he said, "i haven't set up a team yet, "even though some people have reported that he has. >> melissa: i want to add the inspector general report, which we found it yesterday is coming out, looking into this very

issue. the spying, the fisa orange. sometime between may and june. it's not just what's happening within that justice department. >> melissa: hang on -- in honor of marie i want to play the entire thought, so we can hear the whole thing and talk about it. want to make sure we are fair and balanced. go ahead, let us have it. >> spying on a political campaign is a big deal. >> so you're not suggesting, though, that spying occurred? >> i think there was spying that did occur, yes. i think spying did occur. >> well, let me -- >> but the question is whether it was adequately predicated. i'm not suggesting it wasn't adequately predicated. but i need to explore that. i think it's my obligation. congress is usually very concerned about intelligence agencies and law enforcement agencies staying in their proper lane. >> melissa: is he playing it straight? a >> marie: on that answer i

think he was. he says, "i know there are these questions out there." i'm paraphrasing. "i don't know that anything was done inappropriate wood. i will look into it." two things could be true. if you can find out there were legitimate intelligence reasons to surveilled carter page, for example, there were no -- >> pete: or not. >> marie: but you don't know what they will find. >> dagen: here's what i do know, murray. the head of the fbi who was overseeing the fbi when all this was going on with the fisa, with the use of this unverified dossier, jim comey -- he told bret baier, bret baier asked him, "when did you learn that the dnc and they have their content campaign had funded christopher steele's work?" meaning the dossier. "i still and know that for a fact," said jim comey. "i've only seen in the media." this is on his book tour. "i don't know which democrats funded it. i knew it was funded first by republicans."

bret baier -- "that's not true." they said they had glenn simpson infusion gps on the kind of retainer but they did not fund the christopher steele memo of the dossier. that was initiated by the democrats. that's from the head of the fbi. >> katie: after seeing one more thing about this. the news here is that bill barr, the attorney general, confirmed that there was spying. >> melissa: we knew that. >> marie: that's not news. we knew carter page -- >> katie: not verified in testimony paired that's why the senator was so taken -- that's why she was so taken aback by saying, "you're not suggesting there was spying." that's the newsprint he was confirming, "yes, there was." because it was such a big deal to accuse the doj before of spying and now -- >> dagen: let me finish on the spread the problems with the democrat is that they asked that justice is served only if it is served their own interests, their own political -- they blew up all the programming on msnbc.

>> pete: he went on to clarify -- >> melissa: really back in. >> pete: he was asked to clarify, he said, "unauthorized surveillance." the unauthorized surveillance in this authorized surveillance. it came from a poison tree, source is never revealed. he clarified and said that. >> marie: the dossier did not start the counted challenges of desiccation. he did not start it. they said that publicly multiple times. >> pete: they said a lot of things publicly. >> melissa: here you go. senator bernie sanders unveiling the latest version of his medicare for all proposal, and it has got the support of many of his 2020 rivals. the democratic party as a whole, are they embraced to british embracing the peer health care customer what happens to the democrats who don't? plus, president trump putting the spotlight once again on immigration and what he calls a crisis at the border. the scope of the problem and whether the administration alone can fix it without congress. that's the head.

>> the fiscal year so far, we have had 104 of these. 104 so-called caravans with at least 100 people. two years ago, in fiscal year 2017, we had exactly two. gone from two to 104. stop denying what you see in front of you. ♪ address my fellow veterans, because i know there are so many of you who have served our country honorably. whether it's two years, four years or thirty-two years like myself. one of the benefits we as a country give our veterans is eligibility for a va loan for up to 100% of your home's value. so if you need money for your family, call newday usa. with automatic authority from the va, we can say yes when banks say no. call 1-833-844-6703 if you're a veteran homeowner who needs cash, call newday usa. home values are rising, and with newday's va cash out home loan, you can borrow up to 100 percent of your home's increased value. you could get 54,000 dollars or more

and lower your payments by over 600 dollars a month. with automatic authority from the va, newday can say yes when banks say no. take advantage of your home's increased value. call newday usa now. go to newdayusa.com or call 1-833-844-6703 our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy.

and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. i was told to begin i my aspirin regimen,. i just didn't listen, until i almost lost my life. my doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. listen to the doctor. take it seriously. front slams on his the hbrakes out of nowhere. you do, too, but not in time. hey, no big deal. you've got a good record and liberty mutual won't hold a grudge by raising your rates over one mistake.

you hear that, karen? liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. how mature of them! for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ mno kidding.rd. but moving your internet and tv? that's easy.

easy?! easy? easy. because now xfinity lets you transfer your service online in just about a minute with a few simple steps. really? really. that was easy. yup. plus, with two-hour appointment windows, it's all on your schedule. awesome. now all you have to do is move...that thing. [ sigh ] introducing an easier way to move with xfinity. it's just another way we're working to make your life simple, easy, awesome. go to xfinity.com/moving to get started. >> this is not just an idea that kiersten or jeff or i or a few others thought of. this is a struggle for the heart and soul of who we are as american people. [applause] and this struggle will be opposed -- let us be clear about it -- by some of the most powerful forces in the

united states. >> dagen: independent senator and presidential candidate bernie sanders unveiling a revamped version of his signature medicare for all proposal. the single-payer plan would completely upend the current health care system in favor of one that guarantees coverage for every american. but it comes with a staggering price tag, number one. some estimates suggested it could cost between $25,000,000,000,000.35 trillion over a 10-year period. cosponsoring legislation are some of his 2020 rivals in the sentence don't accented. cory booker, kiersten julie brown, kamala harris, and elizabeth warren. senator gillibrand joined sanders of the roll out this morning. she said letting americans initially buy into medicare will help smooth the transition to single-payer. >> if you let americans decide today that you can buy in to medicare for a small percentage of your income, you are creating a not-for-profit public option that is good, high-quality health care now.

i dare any insurance company to just try to compete. >> dagen: republicans are slamming the proposal with senate majority leader mitch mcconnell calling it a "far left socialist experiment." white house counselor kellyanne conway also weighing in this morning. >> this is a government takeover. when you hear "government insurance," don't just hear the word insurance. here the word "government paired" i gave birth four times, i didn't want uncle sam and big brother in there with me. the under lying ideology, government is going to take over one of the most intimate parts of your life pager health care. speech i'm going to most of francis because she was muttering under her breath. the medicare as it exists today, hospital trust fund goes broke in six years. then they would only be able to pay out $0.91 on the dollar. i wanted to point that out. seven years, 2026. so this is the whole point of

this. this upends the entire health care. we cannot pay for it. >> melissa: the reason why medicare works is because people use four times as much in dollar terms as they pay in. so it's heavily subsidized by everyone else, so it feels great because you're getting a lot of stuff and not paying a lot of money. i think it's folly to sit back and point out what's wrong with anybody else's plan because no one has a plan that's going to work 100%. it's easy to be a critic. i think it's wrong to destroy the whole system in order to fix the little park. my proposal would be to start with step one, which would be if you look at the fact that 5% of the population spends 50% of the health care dollars. why don't we put those people in the high-risk pool, focus on the government money on them, we can lay off that risk in reinsurance, put some people -- wall street would gobble up that reinsurance. we can focus on one part of the problem and fix it and see how much it alleviates. dismantle the whole thing, it

leaves a lot of people out in the cold. to try and fix the whole thing and one shot, we try to end it didn't work. why don't we take one huge step and see how it does? sitting on the sideline, it's so easy to say what's wrong with someone else's plan because there is something wrong with everyone's plan. >> dagen: what nomination are you running for? >> melissa: my health myself. i will be health care czar. >> dagen: it would get rid of private insurance, period. that's 150 to 180 million people in america will lose their insurance and be forced onto the government plan. that was bernie's original idea. >> marie: what we saw the repeal and replace debacle, and in part as we talk about medicare for all, what many americans don't want is billing of the entire system and worried that they will lose their health care. that's why repeal and replace wasn't popular on the republican side. i think you will have a diversity of opinions of the democratic party. my guess is the eventual nominee will land somewhere in the lane of, "let's fix obamacare, may be

drastically fix parts of it, and take some ideas from burning, some from other people." but i think the eventual -- there are a lot of democratic candidates who don't want to blow up the system. they want to fix and make better obamacare. >> dagen: not the ones we mentioned. they all signed off on bernie's plan. >> marie: but except for britain, they are pulling at the top. if you look at biotin, pete buttigieg, they are not -- >> pete: that was yesterday's democrat party. this wishful establishment. not even candidate yet, because he can't run the government-run health care. bernie sanders, previous chairman, the va. his previous idea was to throw billions of dollars of the problem to make it better. we've had government run health care administer this country. it's the va. where everybody running for private choice options question because of having del mike hasn't worked, even in

700 million pool of people. not even remotely grounded in reality. it will fail. >> dagen: really quick, the va. this is government health care. negligent, falsified records. gross mismanagement that we known about literally for decades. >> katie: you can look across the pond now and see that people in england are going blind because they are rationing care in their medicare for all system they have there. guaranteed coverage is not guaranteed health care, first of all. but this is the reason why you saw president trump taking on the side of health care a couple weeks ago. because democrats are taking it on. they're putting out a plan and he is saying, "we need to counter this with an argument and a plan. we can't just sit back and let the democrats." for me to recall to criticize the plan, it's fine. but he is still ceding the argument to them because they're not coming up with their own legislate a solution. so the white house and president trumper right to take this slide on. it'll be a huge issue on the campaign trail come as you solve

this candidates lining up behind bernie to talk about it. republicans would do well -- >> melissa: come i've got step one. >> dagen: when you hear democrats telling you their single player plan is going to drive down health care costs, that might be true because people are going to die waiting for heart transplants. we've seen it around the world. it's the doggone truth. >> pete: if they can't take about -- >> melissa: we got to go. >> dagen: say that again. >> pete: if you can't take care of that, there's no way we take care of all americans. >> marie: democrats -- you just of the same thing. >> melissa: we've got to go. speech i did. i'm not running for office, either. the border crisis in the spotlight as the president is set to arrive in texas. some big changes in the administration's approach to border security just days after the president said he wanted to go in a tougher direction. plus, the tense clash between democrats and the administration over the president's tax returns. is this just for show? or do the democrats have a legitimate claim?

♪

>> melissa: fox news alert, president trump set to arrive in texas for a fund-raiser once again shining the spotlight on the u.s.-mexico border and the growing migrant crisis there. the pentagon now announcing it has awarded nearly $1 billion in contracts for new border wall construction. it is the first contract given out since the president declared a national emergency at the border. this also comes amid new reports that the trump administration is exploring ways to make it harder for migrants to receive asylum. today is also the last day of the job for department of

homeland security secretary, kirstjen nielsen, also resigning the department's number two, claire grady. paving the way for current customs and border protection had, kevin -- i always screw this up. mcaleenan. thank you so much. [laughter] we practiced the other day, they were off. to lead the agency. before leaving the white house, the president calling on congress to close loopholes in asylum laws pushing back on claims that he is cleaning house at dhs and insisting he is in charge. listen. >> there is only one person. you know that his customer gets me. the whole asylum rules, laws, and regulation have been taken advantage of by people who are very bad people in many cases. these are the people running the cartels. it's very important that the democrats in congress change these loopholes. if they don't change them, we are just going to be fighting. >> melissa: as we know, everyone's getting in on the

action here with the immigration problem. we have the governor of california going way down to central and south america to talk to countries there. alexandria ocasio-cortez piling on with her tweet saying the far right loves to drum up fear and resistance to immigrants. "but have you noticed they never talk about what's causing people to flee their homes in the first place? perhaps that's because they would be forced to confront one major factor flew to my fueling global migration -- climate change." that's an argument you made about syria, as well. >> marie: there's a lot of evidence. the department of defense will tell you this, that the number of migrants on the world being forced to flee their homes because of climate change -- >> pete: [laughs] >> melissa: let her finish! >> pete: i will. >> marie: you can laugh at me grade >> pete: i am. >> marie: but that affirmative defense were you get to serve agrees with me and not you on this. hang on. it's fine, if your videos once a jump on me, they can get their points out there. my point is that in the number of places around the world,

there are some hard evidence of their climate refugees there being forced out of their home because of drought, changing sea levels. this isn't a joke, it's not funny. i'm not saying that she should have tweeted about it today when we are talking about the current crisis on the southern border. but it's a real thing and you should laugh at. >> pete: i am laughing at it. >> marie: well, you're wrong. spew and let me settle the argument because i went back to research this. they did $3 billion in science research every year, nonpartisan group that turns out results. they say that the former secretary of state, john kerry, based it on a two page brief that came out of the center for climate and security. the brief included no science. they said they would have come in fact, done things like look at rainfall. when they did come of the rainfall totals in syria for the five years or whatever the period was around this were above average. so they said it has become one of the top ten most quoted arguments, this syria argument, that in fact the science does not support it.

they went back into the research. >> marie: i don't know what you are talking about, but there is numerous evidence that in syria one of the reasons -- >> melissa: it's like 100 pages, i've got it there. >> marie: welcome i worked on this for four years in the obama administration. >> pete: there is one little detail and serious pete involves, i don't know, isis and civil war? people caught between -- >> marie: ices wasn't there when the civil war started. >> pete: civil war and bombs and corrupt governments and dictatorships. same things in these south american governments. you've got terrible governments, economies going to the tanks. people are fleeing crimes and gangs and drugs in coming to our countries. and you want to talk about climate change? it's missing the mark. but why would you -- >> dagen: here's what i know about this administration. the biggest hurdle for them has been the court decisions. it would be in the interest of congress to get on board with changing some of the policies about making it easier to stay in this country if you are a minor, if you come in from a

nation that is noncontiguous. that means central america, mabee center lindsey graham can get on board with that and get something done. i would also like to point out that labor and homeland security on monday made available an additional 30,000h2b visas for sitting down like seasonal workers. that's an administration a bracing immigration. but legal immigration. >> melissa: why do we to accept toward fixing the problem for health care? the demographics have changed. to address the fact that these are large groups coming from central and south america. how should border security deal with that? why don't they just tackle -- >> katie: the department of homeless acute has talked about that with the asylum issue. we know the majority people claiming asylum are filing false claims because they don't seek asylum in mexico, they come to united states even though mexico has offered asylum. that's what the second thing is, that they qualify for asylum, and they aren't getting the attention they need because there are so many people that the government is trying to

process right now to get the people helped. so all of these false claims being made actually hurt real victims of persecution and they can't get through. and we can't actually help them. so you're not helping asylum seekers if you are letting everyone to claim asylum. >> melissa: president trump saying he is under audit and won't release his tax returns, one day after a clash over hearing over those returns that sparked the tense exchange. will democrats keep fighting for the president's financial records? we will discuss. that's next. >> if you wish to leave, you may. >> we are dismissed, is that correct? >> if you wish to leave, you may leave. >> i don't understand what you're saying. >> you are wasting your time. ♪ fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely. but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer.

giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth... are you in good hands?

♪ >> i would love to give them, but i'm not going to do it while i'm under audit.

it's very simple. remember, i got elected last time. the same exact issue with the same intensity, which wasn't very much. frankly, the people don't care. my finances are very clean. i don't think there is an investigation. if you say it, i don't know. i don't think there is an investigation. my finances are very clean. >> marie: that was president trump that he can't share his tax returns with congress despite democrats called to do so by today. that was the topic of a fiery hearing in the house financial services committee yesterday. tensions eventually boiled over when treasury secretary steve mnuchin asked to be dismissed from a very diplomatic meaning after more than three hours of testimony. democratic chairwoman maxine waters did not appear willing to grant his request. here is some of that. >> if you would wish to keep me here so that i don't have my important meeting, and continue to grow me, then we can do that. i will cancel my meeting and i will not be back in. >> the secretary has agreed to stay to hear all the rest of the members. please cancel your meeting and

respect our time. who is next on the list? >> you are instructing me to stay here, and i should cancel -- >> no, you just made me an offer. you made me an offer that i accepted. you are free to leave anytime you want. you may go. anytime you want. >> please dismissed everybody. i believe you're supposed to take the gavel and bang it. >> please do not strike me as to how i am to conduct this committee. >> katie: he then did have a meeting with the interior minister. he tweeted this photo saying they discussed the two nations cooperation in the fight against terrorism and illicit finance. marie, i will go to you first. was it really that hard to let them take the meeting? >> marie: look -- i staffed a secretary who -- you don't schedule an important meeting of the eight of the day of a congressional testimony. you know it always goes long. i think this ad administration is showing -- the way he responded her is showing disdain for congressional oversight.

i'm sort of a country with that. on the issue -- >> dagen: [laughs] i think -- and i totally will let you finish -- i think he's a rich dude who shows disdain for everybody. quite friendly. but go ahead. [laughs] >> marie: sure, but when you're in the executive branch, congress is oversight and you have to say they'd be there for hours. days at a time. that's how this system works. mick mulvaney made clear this week on fahd l mike fox and sent to the dump truck could release them. he's not prevented. >> pete: there is no law that requires them to do so. there's no reason he should or ought to. why would he do that customer he's exactly right. he's a rich businessman who understands -- >> marie: allegedly. >> pete: fine, you can say things like that. whatever. he will got elected and he probably will get elected again. the e does not need to show his tax returns they do there's no requirement. >> melissa: can i help and for once i can customer this is what he said today.

he said, "i would love to do it but i'm under audit. but if i weren't, i would do it. i'd love to." so if it comes out -- all they have to do is say "you're not under audit." and he said, "i would love to." >> dagen: technically a president or vice president are under audit. the house ways and means committee chairman is using that as an excuse to get out the president's tax returns to make sure that the irs is indeed auditing the president the way they are supposed to. this is with him in office. number one. number two -- and i will raise this. i said all along congress just wants to embarrass president trump. this is one avenue to do it. if he's not embarrassed by what's in those tax returns, you would think that she likes bragging about his wealth. why not release him at this point? just give it to him -- >> melissa: because they don't have to fight. >> pete: this isn't oversight, this is harassment. there is no law -- what are they overseeing? with the function of the request

mark to bring the treasury secretary before your meeting and bludgeoning to get them to release tax returns he's not required to release. it's trumpet derangement syndrome on continued display. >> marie: there's a statute that says they can ask for the tax returns for any american. >> katie: but it doesn't say you can't do it for vicious plae reasons. you cannot use private tax information to go after people for political reasons. the irs has done that for number of years under the obama industry don't like it administration for regular citizens. pete , i think they should make a law that congressional hearings should be no longer than three hours anyway. >> pete: i would agree with you. >> katie: they are too long. >> pete: he set a meeting for 5:00, they wanted to keep harassing him. >> dagen: what the congressman of house ways and means can do, he can file a subpoena or bring a lawsuit against the minister and pray they will fight until the 2020 election. and let the voters decide whether the transparency of somebody's tax returns matters

to them. when it comes to their everyday lives. i think that's the game plan of the white house. >> katie: we will see. vice president mike pence calling for action to address the crisis in venezuela during a speech a short time ago paid what to make of a top administration response and what can be done about russia's role propping up the madura regime. we will debate that up next. ♪

(gasp) (singsong) budget meeting! sweet. if you compare last quarter to this quarter... various: mmm. it's no wonder everything seems a little better with the creamy taste of philly, made with fresh milk and real cream.

♪ >> marie: vice president mike pence stepping up warnings about the crisis in venezuela during his speech at the u.n. security council. this, on the heels of elite u.n. report saying that millions of venezuelans are without basic services like medical care and food. the vice president going for nicolas maduro to step down and for the interim president to take. watch. >> the struggle in venezuela is between dictatorship and democracy. nicolas maduro is a dictator with no legitimate claim to power. nicolas maduro must go. two nations which continue to back this brutal regime use their veto to stop this body from taking action. while russia and china continue

to obstruct the security council, rogue states like iran and cuba are doing all they can to prop up the maduro regime. >> marie: vice president that's also blasting the u.s. ambassador in attendance, saying he should not be there and you tell maduro that his time is up. melissa, when it comes to these situations, the trump administration has taken a very strong tone and put on some economic sanctions. what else can we do to try and get maduro out of power question like that's the hard part, right? >> melissa: yeah, i don't know the answer to that. i don't want to bring up syria again because that didn't go well before, but is a similar situation in the sense that here you have a dictator who is torturing his people and we sit here and watch what's going on and you want to get involved and beyond sanctions that's tough. the whole neighborhood is putting pressure on him. i don't have an answer to this one. >> marie: dagen, what are your thoughts on this? we all want maduro to go. the question is, when someone is willing to use force in a nondo power and doesn't care about his own people starving, how do you push them out the door? >> dagen: there's no easy

solution. as that is the situation is down there, i look at venezuela and think about what we have done to make sure we can call the shots and i always think about, this is what used to cover. oil. i figured i we are the largest producer of oil. that we have power over opec, over russia in terms of our own dependency. so we can take some hard stances with these nations. we used to lean very heavily on venezuela for the crude coming out of the nation. less so today. >> melissa: and that was one of the early thinks people talked about. that they will run out of gasoline and fuel pretty quickly. obviously that didn't happen, because they thought the government would topple at that point. now we're sitting here -- that was weeks ago. >> dagen: the state-run oil company use to own, indirectly, the 7-elevens in united states bread that's how closely these two nations were integrated. just some years ago. >> marie: authoritarian regimes like this have a way of

surviving often without outside military. what do you think, pete? >> pete: i think the trump administered and got ahead of themselves believing something would inevitably happen. that i don't have many instruments on the table. maybe we should address climate change. may be degree new deal is the solution there. >> marie: do you have any real answers or are you just agree to be made to democrats? >> pete: i love to be made to democrats, but the problem in venezuela is socialism. people are fleeing the government suppressing its own people. we want to believe someone has the chutzpah to replace maduro that hasn't materialized. their only summations and stomachs agency could do. they don't want to use force. >> dagen: i will raise this, katie. as "the wall street journal" wrote an editorial yesterday, for anybody was interested in bernie sanders, it went into the support of a lot of people on his team, for venezuela.

david sirota, back in 2013, wrote an op-ed called "hugo chavez's economic miracle." if you go through this, there's a number of people on bernie sanders' team. >> katie: a lot of people in hollywood, on capitol hill, some of them running for president have supported the maduro regime and the chavez regime. it's because they support the marxism and the socialism that exists in that country. they refuse to acknowledge that's the reason it has collapsed. we are right, the administration's bed position be the only way to get rid of a nasty military action. i don't know if they are willing to do that. >> melissa: on that happy note... [laughter] >> marie: more "outnumbered" and just a moment, don't go anywhere the sugar you don't. (straining) i'll take that. (cheers) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. in two great flavors. there areand the best.s... which egg tastes more farm-fresh and delicious? only eggland's best.

with more vitamins d and e and 25% less saturated fat? only eggland's best. better taste, better nutrition, better eggs. what do all these people have in common, limu? [ guttural grunt ] exactly. nothing! they're completely different people. that's why they make customized car insurance from liberty mutual. they'll only pay for what they need. yes, and they could save a ton. you've done it again, limu. [ limu grunts ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

billions of problems. sore gums? bleeding gums? painful flossing? there's a therabreath for you.

therabreath healthy gums oral rinse fights gingivitis and plaque and prevents gum disease for 24 hours. so you can... breathe easy, there's therabreath at walmart. today's senior living communities have never been better, with amazing amenities like movie theaters, exercise rooms and swimming pools, public cafes, bars and bistros even pet care services. and there's never been an easier way to get great advice. a place for mom is a free service that pairs you with a local advisor to help you sort through your options and find a perfect place. a place for mom. you know your family we know senior living. together we'll make the right choice.

if you're a veteran homeownecall newday usa., home values are rising, and with newday's va cash out home loan, you can borrow up to 100 percent of your home's increased value. you could get 54,000 dollars or more and lower your payments by over $600 a month. with automatic authority from the va, newday can say yes when banks say no. take advantage of your home's increased value. call newday usa now. go to newdayusa.com or call 1-800-405-6714 >> dagen: pete hegseth went to jerusalem for his new special available tomorrow, exclusively on fox nation. it's called "battle in the holy city." here's a little peek. >> this is something the public never sees.

we've been given exclusive access to the back offices in the church of the holy sepulcher, where relics are capped of great significance to the church and the christian faith. in particular, this cross, the small one in the middle, is actual would from the cross of jesus' crucifixion. inside are relics, dozens of which are never seen. >> pete: that was just one place we went. we got exclusive axes and interviews, one with bibi that you know you. you think you know the story of jerusalem? you don't. the real stories underground. i thought i knew it and i spent days they are talking to. went to the pilgrimage road, being done in the city of david. no one has ever been there before. jesus walked on it, pilgrims come to the temple. there's a lot of temple denial happening right now. people say the jews were never in jerusalem. it was a fascinating project to undertake. fox nation, there's tomorrow. remember, it's for conservatives and patriots.

>> katie: it sounds like a talk to a lot of people to get lots of perspective. >> pete: a lots first-hand perspective. >> dagen: as my gran used to say, "the holy land!" good to see you. marie, love you very much. katie pavlich. right now we are back tomorrow at noon. here's melissa. >> melissa: fox news alert, president trump arriving in texas amid big changes in his response to the border crisis. days after saying he wanted to go in a tougher direction. let's go "outnumbered overtime." i'm melissa francis in today for harris faulkner. the president arriving in the lone star state minutes ago for a pair of fund-raisers where he will sign an executive order on pipelines. amid reports that his administration is looking into ways to clamp down on asylum-seekers. and what could be viewed as a big win for the presidents, the army just announcing its f