record close, the first of 2019. for those keeping track it would be the 81st record close for the stock market under president trump. >> bill: remarkable. >> katie: there is a booming stock market out there. that's it for us. we'll see you tomorrow morning. "outnumbered" starts now >> katie: fox news alert , in a surprise defamation suit, to go chicago brothers caught up in an alleged hoax hate crime are assuming the lawyers have representing actor jussie smollett. the brothers say their names have been dragged through the mud over a lie that they say was directed by smollett himself. this is "outnumbered" and i'm melissa francis. here today, cohost of "fox & friends" first, jillian mele. town hall editor and fox news contributor, katie have lunch. syndicated radio host and fox news contributor, leslie marshall. and joining us on the couch today for the first time, charlie kirk. the founder and ceo of turning point usa. so glad to get you out here!

>> charlie: pleased to be here, thank you. >> melissa: do you feel ready? >> charlie: i hope so! [laughter] >> melissa: let's get to it. the two brothers filing a defamation lawsuit against smollett's high-profile attorneys, the brothers were initially arrested as suspects in the alleged attack in january but were later released. they are claiming that jussie smollett paid them "a sum of money" to stage an attack to benefit himself. they add that the actor directed every aspect of the incident. smollett maintains the attack was not staged. here's an attorney for the brothers reading their statemen statement. >> these lies are destroying our character and our reputation in our personal and professional lives. those who know us personally know that we don't have hate for anyone that is not who we are. we will no longer sit back and allow these lies to continue.

>> melissa: mike tobin's live in chicago with the latest. mike? >> it's important that this lawsuit does not name jussie smollett as a defendant, rather, he names his legal team. they say that after all the charges were dropped against the actor, attorneys mark gary gose and tina started doing the rounds on news programs and blamed the attack of the brothers. they claimed that the statements damaged the repetition of the brothers car their business, and consummate them emotional distress. they're asking for damages and legal costs. lawyers for the brothers say they want to clear the name of two guys who were just trying to make it as actors and did what successful actors told them to do. they say they want to clear interpretation of the city in the lawsuit does say that >> sandra: directed the old thing >> they were asked to do some big driver and they trusted. at the end of the day, that friend betrayed their trust. >> the lawsuit says that they

claimed on the "unreasonable doubt" podcast that the younger brother briefly engaged in homosexual encounter with jussie smollett. that story floated by the jussie smollett legal team for by the brothers would have attacked smollett if it was not at his direction. according to a source from the smollett team, one brother was worried that the other one was gay and directed him to be that the actor to prove he wasn't gay. the lawsuit says that homosexuality is not approved of in nigerian culture. >> melissa: wow. thank you for that. charlie? that was quite a new revelation for people that weren't following it on the sites that put out things that are not reported elsewhere. >> charlie: i'm from chicago and it's a total disgrace. i knew there was something wrong with the story assumes they heard that negative 2 degrees

weather, he alleged somebody said, "this is maga country." i've never heard anyone in cook county use that language whatsoever. there needs to be justice served here. it's horrible that those felony counts were dismissed. there's an abundance of people, both democrat and republican, and chicago. it seems like there was a celebrity double standard here. that he got treated differently. >> melissa: it's an interesting approach through the lawyers and not the actor himself, for defamation. putting it on them, that the brothers' character has been dragged through the mud. obviously someone here is lying. maybe this is a way to get it in court to identify who is telling the truth and he was lying. >> leslie: it should have been. did we just agree? [laughter] oh, my god! this is a good start to a week then. when you have someone standing there saying, "we are being defamed because we took money from an actor to pretend to beat

him up, to make him look better, and to make this look like an anti--gay and even antiblack crime," i'm sorry, you messed up your character if you are alleging this is true. i'm glad it will go to court because this is terrible. think about the resources and, in addition to that, how many victims out there of racism and how many victims of homophobia in the lgbtq community there are -- i lived in chicago four years and this is terrible, especially in a city that has a lot of tension along the lines of race. >> jillian: if i could be better to agree, i guess, at the end of the day they are adults. they are the ones who said, "yes, we will do this for you to get paid." at the end of the day, they are the ones you see on the surveillance video purchasing the things used in this alleged hoax. so i have a hard time believing they are victims in this case.

>> katie: the need to be held responsible, maybe not legally, but participating in carrying out a fake hate crime and then blaming white people and trump supporters for that hate crime. that's the first thing. that being said, the fact that jussie smollett is getting away with all this, his attorney went on "the today show" and accuse the brothers of maybe wearing white face and that so he said there were white men who attacked him when he was talking to police. the things they've said in his defense definitely not only defamed the brothers, they are saying they still carried it out, even though they don't like he said they were white. but the political applications have been dropped when it comes to the discussion. they smeared an entire group of americans and it could have caused a lot more damage in terms of the culture and discourse in this country as a result of what they did. >> melissa: knew details from nick's ordinary conference call with democratic committee chair, speaker pelosi urging fellow democrats to focus on

investigations rather than impeachment in the wake of the special counsel report on russian interference in the 2016 election. speaker pelosi reportedly telling a "this is not about democrats or republicans, it's about saving our democracy. we don't have to go to articles of impeachment to get the facts." they tell fox news that maxine waters spoke up saying she still supports impeachment but won't seek to influence anyone else on edge. the democratic 2020 contenders like senator kamala harris see no need for caution, though. watch. >> i believed congress should take the steps toward impeachment. but i'm also a realist. republicans hold a majority. i have not seen any evidence to suggest they will be on the facts instead of on partisan adherence to being protective of this president. and that is what concerns me and what will be the eventual outcome. so we have to be realistic about

what might be the end result, but that doesn't mean the process should not take hold. >> melissa: republican mike turner sits on the house intelligence committee says there is plenty of work that congress needs to do instead of focusing on investigations, and he felt speaker pelosi forgiving energy to a movement to investigate the president. >> i think there's a lot of dissension in the party. at the same time, she is giving tremendous encouragement to this investigation ad nauseam. they should be working on issues such as russia and china, north korea and iran. but she has encouraged adam schiff and his minions to continue their pursuit of donald trump as if he's the most snagged a threat to our security instead of our foes. it's circumventing room were going to be done. >> melissa: reporting of the white house believes there is no chance that proceedings will begin, and even if it did, it would be a gift for the president. one administration official telling the publication, "the white house is so unconcerned

that it doesn't currently have a strategy in place for responding to impeachment proceedings." >> charlie: do you believe there is no plan because they don't think it's going to happen? do you think it's smart? >> charlie: i believe there is some plan. if the democrats really want to go forward with these articles of impeachment -- and let's just say in a hypothetical world that it passes. it won't go to the center. everyone knows there's have only been to presidents impeachment only a few removed. another letter i word -- independence. unemployment going down, which is going up, piece happening across the world. they want to see that president in php are people in the middle want to see unity, bipartisan reform, and if the democrats use their energy on that, they will lose independents in 2020. >> melissa: there is someone focus on impeachment and wants it, and that is tom steyer, who took out an ad.

saying, "it's all here, ten detailed acts of obstruction of justice." the robert mueller report lays out impeachment for the president." it goes on to say, "congress, do your job. i'm tom steyer." but that message out. obviously very influential in the party. what does that mean? >> leslie: i interviewed tom steyer and asked him point blan blank, because to kamala harris' point, there are realities. if it passes the house, you have a division among the most centrist like -- he of the republican majority in the senate and we have history o look to. what happens there republicans would build president dominic clinton what dominic was impeached? newt gingrich -- what he said is, and some people in congress feel this way, maybe on the fence as to whether they will be on aoc's side or pelosi's side of his argument which is that progress has a responsible lead to the american people, to constitution, to do the investigation. even if it won't pass in the

senate, bring the articles of impeachment because of their position. not just their position, their congressional responsibility to have oversight over the executive branch. specifically the president. and he looked to two issues -- obstruction and witness tampering. >> katie: i think it's amazing that we are calling nancy pelosi a moderate democrat now. she's always been an extremist. we just have more extremists in the party. >> leslie: she is pretty moderate. >> katie: we've gone from bob mueller as the end all be all, we trust what he's going to say, we will protect him, blodgett we wanted to introduce legislation to protect them. multiple times they wouldn't vote on it. and here we are, without any kind of collusion and democrats want to focus on and obstruction kind of you that the attorney general says doesn't play out. my question for democrats -- you subpoenaed down again yesterday to come in front of the

intelligence committee, or the house oversight committee. out of the 30 hours of what he testified in front of mueller about -- which is in the report -- what are you going to find based on the resources that you have as investigators that bob mueller didn't find? the answer is nothing. democrats have the benefit of talking about a patient has a talking point for political reasons, and actually the benefit of introducing articles and voting on it because they know it's not going to go anywhere. so they will say to their base, "we voted on impeachment, we tried," and the republicans didn't want to hold the administration accountable. when it comes to how we feel by the mueller investigation, at this point most people think it was a witch hunt and his credibility went down by the end of the investigation. people just want to move on. it's a double-edged sword but i think the white house is more prepared than they are letting on for the investigation. >> jillian: and to your point about it being a talking point, for someone like kamala harris -- who knows that her base loves the impeachment talk -- they will keep talking about it. for the rest of the democrats, i feel like we know that there is

no collusion. so we knew people would hang onto something. you knew they would still pounding the pavement about something. that's one of those things. >> melissa: for kamala harris -- >> jillian: the democratic base. >> melissa: her area of the country, what she represents now, loves impeachment. but if she's going for a broader vote and she's trying to run for president, does it still makes sense for her, charlie? >> charlie: in manhattan and malibu, impeachment is very popular. >> leslie: there's a few other cities. >> charlie: in manhattan, kansas, it's not as popular. all kidding aside, middle america is starting to see the revitalization that they've been promised for decades. which is going up, many fracturing coming back, and implement at record low levels. just today, they said there's the low ever black and hispanic on employment. the radical left, they are demanding revenge. they have not gotten over the fact that they loss in 2016. this is their way to try and get back at it. at this point i agree --

congress does have an oversight capacity and authority, 100%. but they also delegated that to robert mueller. we were told for two years, "give him space, give him years, given $30 million." now the report comes out and they have no collusion. >> katie: they said they weren't interested in give $30 million." because mueller was paid that's what they said. >> charlie: "let mueller do it." i'll i'm confused, will they impeach them for? because they are upset that they lost? >> melissa: ten articles of obstruction. >> charlie: if they had a case of obstruction, he would have referred that. >> leslie: the difference here is that separating criminal, which was his response building, political, which is enough ago, which is congressional responsibly. >> charlie: high crimes and misdemeanors. in the constitution is as high crimes and misdemeanors. so what crime have been custom work >> leslie: i know it says in the constitution. the interpretation of the constitution -- and even former president gerald ford said it -- "impeachment is whatever the house majority deems it to be at

the time." >> charlie: high crimes and misdemeanors is in the actual language. nixon was ever impeached. andrew johnson was for a high crime, clinton was impeached. >> melissa: at this time yesterday we showed a graphic referencing a treat from resident tribe regarding mitt romney's nomination. the graph should have said 2012, not 2016. we apologize for the error. coming up, the top democrat on the oversight committee accusing the white house of stonewalling after lawyers for president trump sue to block subpoenas for his personal financial information. is he right, or are democrats taking their trump investigations too far? plus, 2020 democratic presidential candidates continue to push a liberal policies including plans to cancel student loan debt and fine executive orders on gun control and more. whether voters will embrace their ideas, we will debate it. next. >> on the first day of my

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♪ >> we are going to rollback student loan debt for about 95% of students who have it. that's part one. part two is to make sure we never get in this mess again on the student loan debt, and that is to make college universally available with free tuition and fees. >> katie: 2020 democratic presidential hopeful, senator elizabeth warren, rolling out ambitious liberal policy proposals at a town hall last night. warren addressing the student

debt crisis. her plan includes canceling student loan debt, eliminating tuition and fees at public colleges, and greater support for minority and low income students. here is how she would pay for it -- making super wealthy americans pay more in taxes. >> i started in several months ago talking about a wealth tax. an ultra millionaire's tax. now that you've got that great fortune, spend just a minute to remember how you got it. and we say, "good for you, that you have no gotten this great fortune. but two sense -- you've got to pay something back so everyone else get the chance." >> katie: critics airplane to be difficult to implement and would spur more aggressive tax avoidance. meantime, president kennedy and fellow senator kamala harris in another town hall saying she will use the power of the pen to counter gun control of congress

is not. >> i will give them 100 days to get their act together and have the courage to pass reasonable gun safety laws. if they fail to do it, then i will take executive action. what i will do is put in her car mentor everyone who sells more than five guns a year -- they are required to do background checks when they sell those guns. >> katie: melissa, i want to go to first on the money aspect of the student loan situation. it's complicated. was your response to elizabeth warren's proposal? >> melissa: how to pay for it is always to tax the rich. everyone says that every time. remember when they tried that in france and a whole bunch of people left? didn't work. the real point was they didn't take in nearly the revenue that they had calculated. because a lot of people were too smart and they left the country. they eventually had to repeal it. it didn't work out. i would also say that if you confiscated the wealth of the top 1% and threw them in jail and took away everything they earned in a year, it would be a few trillion dollars and you couldn't pay for all of these

programs they are talking about. medicare for all, student loan, all of those things. there isn't enough rich people to pay for what they want to. even if he took away their earnings and through them in jail. >> katie: charlie, your forte is working with young people, young millennials were in college come out of college. what do you have to say about her proposal? >> first of all, i don't think it's very fair for students who worked their way through college and had manageable student loan debt. this caters to students that had tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. i think they are victims and a lot of sense. there's also so much misinformation about this, though. even congresswoman maxine waters a couple things go thought she would do a gotcha question at the big banks, asking what they were doing about student loans. little does she know, most of them are given out by the federal government. we've nationalized our student loan industry. also, to senator warren, we need to ask a question -- should we have as many people going to four-year college that we have going to college right now? the answer is no. the national graduation rate is

59%. that means 41% of people who enter college will not graduate. we have too many people going to for your college. is it worth getting into debt? these are questions we should address before you say we should forgive it. and also take money away from people have 11 be quite successful to pay for a completely broken system. final point, why not tax the endowments? she is so silent of those. i'll tell you why -- she gets contributions. she wants to work with the biggest endowments of the world. >> katie: jillian, you were nodding her head. >> jillian: you are talking about the kids he worked to put themselves through college. what about the people who have worked their entire lives and came from nothing to be able to make something of themselves and make themselves perhaps self-made millionaires? why should they have to pay for everything from other people? going back to that whole 2% tax on families with $50 million or above, i get it, you've got a lot of money, but at the same time it doesn't mean you give it away. >> katie: leslie, i'm wanting the democrat response here. she's arguing we have to stop her from happening again, which

i agree with. but as we see the federal government handing out loans without any kind of return on investment or real calculation of what is going to mean in terms of the career you go into, we see this massive problem and crisis with student loan debt. and now regular people and fellow millennials -- there's lots of the limos who have mortgages. should we also bail them out on that? where does it end? >> leslie: first of all, we have to remember that every person we are hearing from -- elizabeth warren as well, is campaigning to get that nomination for democrat president of the united states. she has a separate herself from the rest. a large number of her supporters are bernie sanders supporters, which we have seen in the poll that millennials love bernie. for two reasons. free college tuition has bipartisan support. the left and right, people say it's a broken system that needs to be fixed. another thing, when beto o'rourke stood up a couple weeks ago and gave out his great talk, there was a question that said, "what is your specific

plan for that?" and he couldn't answer that. to her credit, she said, "this is my specific plan." it's very ambitious, i don't think it would work because it wouldn't been able to be enforced with people who are that wealthy because they have the ability to hire people to have the money. >> melissa: why don't you make the university's pay for it? instead of the taxpayer being the one to foot the bill for all this debt, the universities of the one that are graduating people with degrees that are, by definition -- because they are not being paid back -- not worth what people paid for them. they are not able to get a job and pay back the debt because the degree wasn't worth how much of college charged for it. in a normal market it would be the college that took the hit. that goes back to your idea of the endowments. make the college stomach the loss. they will get their finances in order, they will get their prices in line. but just sloughing everything off on the taxpayer is this unnamed person. there is no incentive there, as you said. >> melissa: i want to get a response to kamala harris on the

gun-control issue. >> charlie: first of all, any executive action on guns would be quickly appealed by many second amendment advocates. it goes to show there are so much in front don't like misinformation with firearms, more so even the student loans. most of the deaths are handguns in urban areas with gang-related violence. i did not hear ones in her campaign speech the last couple weeks talking about the systemic issues, white gang violence is happening. two reasons -- public schools in fatherless houses. they are taking law-abiding weapons away from americans that's not going to do anything to solve the issue. >> katie: all right, moving on. this up in court wearing a big case whether to reinstate a question about citizenship on the 2020 census. why this has become controversial and whether it should be. ♪ newday usa helps veteran homeowners get cash by using the powerful va home loan benefit we've earned with our service. the newday va cash out loan can help you get over 50,000 dollars to pay off the credit card debt, put cash in the bank, and reduce your payments by over 500 dollars a month.

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judges hear arguments over whether the initiation can put a citizenship question on the 2020 census. supporters say it will help enforce voting rights and has been done on the past. critics say it's a veiled attempt to discriminate against noncitizens, discourage them from participating, and it was d result in undercounting the publishing. they say this question is based on the constitutional principle that will impact the entire country and hurt the representation of minorities. prefederal courts have blocked the commerce department from adding the citizenship question. courts have ruled that commerce secretary wilbur ross violated federal law and the way he went about trying to include the question on the census. melissa, i will go with you -- what do you see has pros and cons, here? >> melissa: if you take the politics out of it -- which, you know, it's always hard -- in this case i think it really counts. how do you get the best picture of who is where? i honestly don't know the answer to that, because you want the citizenship question in

their because you want to know where there are people who are taxpayf funding, who needs what, what ir for the electoral college. so i want to know who is really rare. at the same time, i don't want to discourage people from not responding to the census because they are afraid and they are here illegally. because i want an accurate count. so i don't know, between those two states, what the best ways to get an accurate count. >> katie: but there is no distinction if you are here illegally or a citizen on the census now. so it's not determined. we still don't have an accurate count of the number of illegal immigrants in this country. the problem with this is of the census is used to delegate congressional districts and it's ridiculous that we are counting noncitizens or illegal aliens in the -- >> jillian: sorry to interrupt you, katie. we have a fox news alert. >> melissa: fox news alert, we can all confirm the vice president former

vice president joe biden is going to announce his residential run on thursday. we had been hearing it would happen on wednesday in charlottesville, virginia. it had been slated, we had thought, rumored for other times, as well. this, he's going efficiently announce his run on the thursday. oh, by a video announcement is what be her hearing. he will do it by video. a lot of details changing as we come out. let me bring it up to the couch here. charlie, what do you think of the fact that he is going to -- we are hearing the latest -- that he's going to do a video message? and the data has changed again, but now it seems to be firm. >> charlie: and not too sure about the video aspect. it's interesting, you think you would want the biggest crowd possible. maybe they have trouble building the same car that kamala harris would build. by the way, she had an amazing, california. maybe he doesn't want the question to be that he can't build a crowd. i will say this -- it will get very nasty very quickly. he will come in with a lot of

money and addresses and media connections. they will look at him as the singular bull's-eye the same way the candidates looked at jeb bush in 2016. >> melissa: we are also confirming he will make an appearance on monday in person as a candidate in pittsburgh. video on thursday to make the official announcement, and then the monday as a candidate in person in pittsburgh. why do you think the changes from what we heard before or do you think those were plants that were floated and they were next and not firm? >> leslie: i think they had firm plants a dish to do charlottesville and pittsburgh and philly on wednesday, tomorrow. it was smart for them. it would be viewed as disrespectful. my understanding from my sources over there, they basically are saying, "look, he wants to say that people in this country return of the hate. tired of the division. i want to unite and bring us

together. i want to help the fix and repair the wounds." not a good place to do it. pennsylvania, very smart place for them to be. not only see from there, pennsylvania has one of the three states that helped put them in the white house along with wisconsin and michigan and a state where joe biden is very popular, a lot of blue colors worker blue-collar workers not very happy. >> melissa: did this change it seem? [laughter] >> katie: the rollout has been clumsy. it hurts joe biden. you look at the polling, bernie sanders has gained on the mend is that if and when some of the early states. it's a very early, so that can change. however, i find it interesting that we keep saying joe biden is the guy who's going to bring everyone together. going to unify everybody. joe biden is the guy who is very good at division then very good at stoking the flames. very controversial issues on the campaign trail. was a 2016 he said republicans would put everyone back in chains when he was speaking --

mitt romney, 2012? when he was speaking to an african-american audience. he has said some pretty vile things that he tends to get away with because he's not donald trump. >> jillian: i kind of agree with what you said, leslie, about how it may not have been -- and is not going to happen now -- the best bet to do it in charlottesville paid ever but he agrees, if you were going to do it somewhere, pennsylvania, scranton, philadelphia even. that would've been a better move so it feels like they are playing the safe card and doing >> leslie: can imagine the polls customer to your point about the poll, there was a morning consul pole that showed him leading by 30%. that is over sanders by 6%. ten days ago joe biden was leading. i don't think that joe biden lost half of his supporters in ten days. i'm just saying, i don't believe all these polls. >> katie: they've never been wrong before! [laughter] >> leslie: shocking! >> jillian: we will certainly keep an eye on them. joe biden such jump into the presidential ring and some new

polling -- that we love -- with some very interesting news for him. what young people are saying about him and bernie sanders when we come back. [applause] ♪ let's take a look at some numbers:

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>> jillian: a fox news alert, vice president joe biden will make his candidacy official on thursday, this is new polling shows that the young democratic voters are feeling the burn for bernie sanders. that's according to a new national poll that looks at likely primary voters between the ages of 18 and 29. it shows that senator bernie sanders with a lead over former vice president joe biden with former congressman beto o'rourke trailing in third place. the poll also finds sharp changes in support based on categories like gender. young men giving sanders the edge over biden, but sanders' lead narrows considerably among young women. i will start with you. why do you think the younger generation loves bernie sanders? >> leslie: he started a revolution. if you remember, when he ran

against hillary clinton, he wasn't just a candidate. it was a revolution. young people of that. protests, to revolt about something. in addition, he promises free stuff. free health care, free tuition. having trouble paying the student loans? if you have to do a second job or get a minimum wage job, i'm going to fight for $15 an hour." they like that. it resonates with them. what also resonates is that he has portrayed himself as a champion of the oppressed and they truly feel oppressed. >> jillian: but this message hasn't worked in the past. he tried to come and go to you. part of what i think is going on -- a little bit, anyway -- is getting the messaging out. you look at someone like alexandria ocasio-cortez, he does so much on social media, you have young people who listen to our message. you feel that someone like her is helping him in this movement? >> charlie: you are. i agree with what he said. some villanelles do feel oppressed. are you kidding me? you live in the greatest country in the world with more opportunity than ever before. life expectancy expanding, which

is going up, youth and implement lower than we've ever seen. more job openings than people to fill those jobs. which are they feel oppressed about? that there uber eats was later there was a long line at starbucks? [laughter] he focuses on two things -- he promises an unattainable utopia, and number to become a plays into this victimhood culture that the universities train students to programmatically focus on. he convinces them that everyone in the younger generation is deserving of everything from before them. the system is rigged against you, therefore its ability and our money that you deserve. it's tender stuff. >> katie: he's also blind to young people. when he promises free everything, there is no such thing as free. someone will pay for it. if you do the math on his proposals, whether it's free college or free medical care, you have to actually tax everybody. which he admits. "all of your taxes will go up but then you will have free services," which also wasn't true. we some reports of medicare and

social security going insolvent. those aren't working and he continues to lie to them about it. he's a hypocrite. last night during his cnn town hall he was asked about the term tax cuts and he railed against them even though he got a tax cut and isn't willing to write a check for the difference of the government. >> jillian: melissa, i'm curious -- people are rallying behind him and his method right now. ultimately do think they vote for him? >> melissa: that's a very interesting question. i like this poll, it's from the institute of politics at the kennedy school at harvard. they welcomed me as a speaker and they had me there with another democrat who warned me before i went out and said, "these kids are so liberal, they shock even democrats." everyone who comes talk to them, their fruit is left of anything that you could possibly imagine be ready." they had very interesting questions but it wouldn't surprise me at all that they would let whoever the farthest left candidate is. i love the iop!

go, guys. [laughter] >> charlie: the final point i will make is that it's very easy to be generous with other people's money. it's easy to have -- >> leslie: but he has said he's a democratic socialist. >> katie: maybe he should pay with his millions of dollars. maybe he will an out house to millennium. >> charlie: if the government is the best way to right the wrongs of the capitalist system, you shouldn't give any money to charity. to government. he should not give charitable contributions. just give it to the irs. >> katie: he shouldn't sell his book on barnes & noble or amazon, either. speed went all right, all right. we'll talk about that after the break. in the meantime, fox news is now set to host another big town hall event. democratic president candidate mary pete buttigieg will sit down with our own chris wallace in the early voting state of new hampshire. you can catch it on sunday, may 19th, at 7:00 p.m. eastern. right here on on fox news chan.

all right, i'm going to watch that. a legal battle is brewing between president trump and house oversight chairman elijah cummings over the president's personal financial record. is this legitimate oversight or have democrats gone too far? that's next. >> they try these type of ridiculous tactics in the past to push things like tax returns. it's already been litigated in the court of public opinion and in the election the president won fairly and squarely. he is the president and no one cares about ridiculous charges about tax returns. ♪ - in a crossfit gym, we're really engaged with

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♪ >> katie: house oversight chairman elijah cummings responding to the lawsuit filed against him by president trump and the trump organization yesterday. president trump's lawyers moving to block subpoenas for financial information from the president's businesses. chairman cummings responding, "the president has a long history of trying to use baseless lawsuits to attack his adversaries, but there is simply no valid legal basis to interfere with this duly authorized subpoena from congress." the suit asked the federal court in washington to keep chairman coming cummings from obtaining records from the accounting firm the president and his businesses use. jay sekulow, counsel to the present, sing this in a statement -- "will not allow congressional presidential

harassment to go unanswered to." charlie? >> charlie: what's happening is the democrats are trying to assemble the greatest taxpayer-funded opposition research file on donald trump they possibly can. that's all this is. they were disappointed by the mueller report's of the star to reposition all of their strategies a couple months ago when people started to leave miller's team, started to signal they wouldn't have this bombshell. i have to go back to this -- for the last year and a half we have heard elijah cummings in nancy pelosi essay amazing things about bob mueller. that this mueller report with the end of the presidency, mueller is coming. another point is out and they want more information. this goes to show they are much more focused on destabilizing the presidency of donald trump than actually doing what's best for america. >> katie: leslie, president trump was elected the first time without releasing his tax returns. does it really matter at this point? five there are couple things. to your point, i would disagree. since he's been campaigning they have gone after his tax returns before he even heard the name bob mueller. that is something that democrats want. one of the reasons they want it

is if you are asked for something via a sabina and he pushed back, what it's like, "o.j., why are you running away in the car? he must be guilty and hiding something." i think that's what they feel. the most comprehensive view, if you're going to do an investigation and you're going to follow a money trail, you need to see all the money that has been reported and has been received. including bise business. >> melissa: come on, let's be honest. they want to look at it to see what they can find in there to hurt him in the next election. it was a risk to say that you weren't going to put your tax returns before you were elected, because then, yes, voters could say maybe he's hiding something we should see. he took that risk, he didn't put them out, and he won. that's that. and of the story. no one has a right to it now. they didn't have a right to it before. you could hold it against massive voter and you still have that opportunity to do it.

he's not releasing them again, so voters will once again have the opportunity, if they choose, to hold it against them. they did last time, we will see. maybe it's different now. >> jillian: just because you're saying no to release something, doesn't necessarily mean -- i get what you're saying, but it doesn't mean you're guilty or that there is something to find. it just means no. >> leslie: every democrat and republican who has run -- even in local offices -- shares their tax returns. >> melissa: because they felt compelled to do it. that's what made it such a huge risk that he didn't do it. that's what made it such a risk. >> leslie: but what is the motivation for not doing it? >> melissa: because he knows it's a huge document. anyone who does real estate in new york, it's a huge document. you're going to go through and find something. >> katie: it will be used as a political weapon. >> melissa: not an illegal thing. >> charlie: something that's not talked about enough -- what a gift to his competitors, all the hotel chains, who want to see the in-depth financials of all his assets. he's trying to preserve a business enterprise that he has

spent decades and lots of risk putting together. if he wants the next generations to be able to have it. why would he give his financials to the hiltons, the marriotts, to all the other competitors they can in-depth look? he shouldn't give those financials. by the way, i will defend that he has a right to protect it. >> leslie: he didn't get into del mike voted into office to protect hotels and wall street. >> charlie: but he has a right to keep them private. >> melissa: voters know that. voters are saying, "you don't put it up because you want to protect your competitive advantage." >> katie: more "outnumbered" in just a moment. ♪ who need cash. with home values rising all across the country, now's the time to use your valuable va home loan benefit. newday usa can help you refinance and get 54,000 dollars or more and lower your payments by $600 a month. and since they've been granted automatic authority by the va, newday can say yes when banks say no.

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>> katie: think you to charlie kirk. anything coming up? >> charlie: traveling to penn state university today with donald trump jr. we will have a lot of fun. >> katie: debating who? >> charlie: any leftist who

wants to step up to the microphone. another turning point usa event. >> katie: will be back tomorrow at noon eastern. but now, melissa francis is in for harris. >> melissa: fox news alert, joe biden is set to announce another run for the white house on thursday. welcome to "outnumbered overtime." i'm melissa francis in today for harris faulkner. fox news can now confirm that joe biden will make his candidacy for the presidency official in two days in an online video. sources familiar with the planning say the former vice president will also make an appearance on monday in pittsburgh. biden will be joining a crowded democratic field where the parties progressive ideas were front and center during a series of 2020 town halls last night, including elizabeth warren announcing a new plan to cancel existing student debt for millions. kamala harris veiling executive action on gun control if congress doesn't act in her