or an additional definition for snowflake, i should say. [laughs] it's official now. they've had enough of us, bill. see you back here tomorrow morning. thank you for joining us. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> melissa: fox news alert, the white house digging in over house democrats subpoenas related to the mueller report as the president indicates that they are ready for a fight. this is "outnumbered" and i'm melissa francis. here today, town hall editor and fox news contributor katie pavlich. fox news contributor lisa boothe. a host of the evening host of n fox business, elizabeth macdonald. e-mec. at fox news political analyst and coast of "the five," juan williams. you're looking very springy, i love that tag. >> juan: i am sitting here with such colorful people, it's my personal spring fling. >> katie: so sweet! >> melissa: on that note, let's get to it. president trump taking a hard line on subpoenas, blasting what he called a very prominent

process. it's been messy after nearly two year long special counsel probe knowing they will fight all the subpoenas targeting his current and former aides. here is the president. >> the subpoena is ridiculous. we have been, i have been, the most transparent president and administration in the history of our country by far. we just went through the mueller witch hunt, and they came up with no collusion. they actually also came up with no obstruction. i say it's enough. get back to infrastructure, get back to cutting taxes, get back to lowering drug prices. really, that's what we should be doing. >> melissa: one of the people democrats want to hear from his former white house counsel don mcgahn. mcgann was measured more than 150 times in the mueller probe and he allegedly told investigators of the president asked him to fire the special

counsel. today the white house confirmed that they may assert executive privilege to stop mcgahn and others from testifying. democratic house judiciary chair jerry nadler suggesting that is illegal, saying in a statement that attempts to assert privilege "revs that were more active obstruction by an administration desperate to prevent the public from talking about the president's baby." juan, this is what i'm confused about at this point. very basic how can they be obstruction of justice of their was no underlying crime? what justice was being obstructed if there is no collusion? >> juan: you don't need an underlying crime for obstruction. you can go talk to even rudy giuliani, a very good prosecutor here new york for a lot of the mafia criminal stuff. you don't need the underlying crime. if people lie, if they obstruct your effort of a criminal investigation, that's obstruction. >> melissa: but how can they obstruct investigation of the something that didn't happen? there is no evidence of

collusion at all. >> juan: not sufficient evidence for an indictment is what mueller said. >> melissa: you're talking about obstruction. on collusion, he said no american anywhere in america colluded with the russians. >> juan: correct. but what he is saying also -- if you read the report, you see that russia clearly interfered to the benefit of donald trump. and the trump campaign was not, is what mueller said, personally involved in encouraging or doing it. but they were welcoming to it and i think that's what you are seeing. what we are seeing today is very interesting because i think it's a huge constitutional crisis that is brewing. i wonder -- of course, he didn't assert that when muelo me again. so it's hard for him to come in now and do it. but he could do it and sibley say, "you know what? let's fight it out in the courts, gentlemen." it'll be a slow walk, will be the middle of the 2020 election

2020 election. which is basically already starting. the other thing is that the democrats could raise the stakes, melissa. if you want to play hardball like that, maybe we should go toward impeachment. >> melissa: katie, how can there be a cover up if there is no crime? >> katie: before andrew mccabe, was the deputy fbi director, was fired -- he said the president never made any effort to obstruct any kind investigation pray that nobody was intimidated at the fbi for looking into any of these issues when it came to russia. we've been hearing for years that special counsel robert mueller would not be able to finish his job, wouldn't be able to complete the investigation. he has. what this is about as democrats want to change the narrative from collusion and obstruction to, "look, he obstructed according to the mueller report," even though william barr cleared them on that. and he's obstructing justice. by asserting executive privileg privilege.

i'm not really sure what democrats are really looking for when it comes to what they're trying to get out of these witnesses. are they really going to issue 2,000 subpoenas with hundreds of witnesses to speak to? i don't think so. this is about them trying to change the narrative to the president obstructing as we go to another election. it's not unprecedented for a president to assert executive privilege and it certainly is not a constitutional crisis. barack obama did it, george w. bush today, presidents before have done it. it's not new or unprecedented if president trump is that as well. >> juan: after the fact, because he has already -- >> katie: it's not new and it's not something -- >> juan: but in this circumstance it would be unprecedented. >> melissa: lisa, let me ask you -- obstruction, if you don't leave the right hanging out there by itself, the whole phrase, "obstruction of justice." what justice was obstructed? >> lisa: there was none. he repeatedly said there was no collusion. what a dumb arguments. if we had ten more hours with

don mcgahn we would have gotten to the truth? he testified for over 30 hours. it's a sham. i'm so sick and tired of the talking point of this is about russia and get into the bottom of that. democrats don't care about russia and it's been abundantly clear since president obama laughed in the face of romney when he brought up russia during the 2012 election. when there was the hot mike moment of him telling the president he would have more flux ability after the election. the mueller report plainly states that russia was trying to interfere since 2014. obama did nothing about it. there were reports that he didn't do anything about it because he thought that hillary clinton would end up winning the election. obama didn't do anything about it until president trump won the election, then he ordered of the intel report and put sanctions on russia, in my opinion come at the time president trump's hands politically. so democrats don't care about russia. this is about harming and tarring president trump. >> melissa: one point that i'm a challenge, lisa, i think they

care about russia now. because it cost them an election. don't you think they care now? >> elizabeth: president trump has been extremely tough on moscow. really tough on them with sanctions of all sorts of military and intelligence officials, over ukraine stopping arms shipments there. the democrats want a 1973 john dean televised senate hearing to embarrass the president. the american people, the polls show, by politico and cnn, they are saying to move on. this is done. that president trump is protesting his innocence and it's far different from the bill clinton impeachment hearings, when there was an attempted cover up. trying to get monica lewinsky to swear to a false affidavit during a federal court proceeding and a grand jury probe. it's far different. bill clinton's impeachment proceedings, 11 impeachable offenses here. the american people are saying, "move on, he was protesting his

innocence." it seems like the american people were saying, "wow, there is no collusion. we are relieved by that." and there are only 12 laws enacted, signed by the president, so far over this congress. they are in deep trouble, the house democrats. i know mitch mcconnell is -- forger 40 laws passed. >> katie: if you look at the mueller report and you look at what the russians actually did, their number one goal was to spread misinformation to put americans at war with each other rhetorically. to fight it out. it's working, it's been working. when people like adam schiff or jerry nadler continue to investigate an issue that has been resolved for this 2-year-long investigation, they are continuing their efforts by the russians, ironically, by continuing the narrative against the white house and trying to so discourse within the country.

>> lisa: there was also the disinformation document the democrats don't care about. >> juan: epic is important to understand that the president is acting in a way that would block a constitutional responsibility of the congress, which is that -- >> elizabeth: but they've gotten everything they wanted. >> juan: hang on a second, liz. let me speak for just a second. >> elizabeth: they got everything they wanted. >> juan: just a second. we read in the conservative editorial page of "the wall street journal" is that this president is now attacking don mcgahn in such a way as to suggest that mccandless misled mueller. and thank you, don mcgahn, for saving this president from hurting himself. by firing mueller. you talk about an active obstruction, he tried to fire the special counsel. and then says, "no, i didn't." and that mcgahn is the problem here there's a lot to be resolved. >> katie: we will certainly be talking about this going

forward. something else now, new reaction from the president's lawyer as the former democratic rival ways and on the mueller report for the first time. hillary clinton claiming that anyone other than the president would have been indicted on obstruction of justice charges. >> i think there is enough there that any other person who had engaged in those acts would certainly have been indicted. but because of the rule in the justice department that you can't indict a sitting presiden president, the whole matter of obstruction was very directly sent to congress. >> katie: and here is how giuliani responded today on "fox & friends" ." >> there is a woman who really obstructed justice. the president didn't delete 33,000 emails. he didn't have someone smash up telephones and he didn't have someone wipe out a server and

believed it. among the few things that she did. there used to be a doj standing policy, you cannot indict a clinton no matter how much they obstruct justice, no matter how much evidence they destroy, no matter how often they lie, and no matter that they committed perjury. you can't indict a clinton. it's against the democrat justice department rules. >> katie: melissa, you are furiously writing notes over here. [laughter] >> melissa: i would just say that if you watch barr's full -- when he stood there and to the press conference, and i was captive on a plane at the time so i was a captive audience with nothing else to do. he said that he specifically said to mueller, "is the reason why you don't pick it's appropriate to indict the president because you believe that you can't indict a sitting president?" and he said, "no, that's not the reason that i don't think it's appropriate here. i think there isn't enough evidence." so hillary clinton was wrong on that point. boldfaced wrong, and i would say it that if we go down this road

comparing the clintons and everyone is sick of that, you make the comparison to what bill clinton did, he was trying to cover up the fact that he had had this affair with this woman. that's what was going on. i would just ask, what was president trump trying to cover up? collusion with the russians? no, there was no end of that. >> juan: then melissa, why did he lie about the trump tower meeting? why is he trying to fire the special counsel? not only did he lie about it, he got his son to lie about in terms of what he wrote in that memo explaining the trump tower meeting. >> katie: let's talk about what hillary clinton said. >> melissa: let's do juan's thing for a second. if they had a meeting, donna brazile is the one who said those folks reach out to them all the time. if somebody said to you they had opposition research on somebody else, everybody takes those meetings. >> juan: not from a foreign government, melissa. a foreign government, it's illegal. by the way, this is why you see

that mueller, in terms of obstruction, sent it off to congress to do their job. >> katie: there still questions about how she got into the country since she was banned from being of the country and given the special visa. back to hillary clinton's comment -- isn't it quite rich, coming from a woman who shared top secret classified information on an unsecured server, which put lives and spies in danger all across the world, for united states and american citizens, would then be saying the president should be indicted for this? >> lisa: she is delusional and arrogant, obviously peer that's what rudy giuliani pointed out and you did as well. according to the russian attorney she met with fusion gps's glenn simpson before and after the tower meeting. i wonder what they discussed. if you want to talk about russia here, again, the way that russia spread disinformation is through the dossier. no one seems to care about that. also, you look at hillary clinton, a lot of

members of congress -- previous members, including trey gowdy -- are brought up the fact of how the clinton people were treated versus president trump. you look at them, they told the fbi they didn't know about the server but we know that wasn't true. >> elizabeth: the problem with this story is people are focusing on details like you just did, without focusing on the other details in the mueller report. "it appears that there no pre-existing contact between russia and senior officials of the trump campaign, and there were attempts to connect with senior officials and it didn't happen." they struggled to connect and it didn't happen. so you can't say things in isolation without the broader context of what the rest of the mueller report is saying. >> katie: juan, a quick glassware to you. [laughter] >> juan: the russians were proven to train a jiffy to spread the propaganda that melissa and others have talked about the term can pay not only welcome the

the trump campaign not only welcomed it, they invited them up to the trump tower for a meeting because they heard they had negative information. that's illegal. i hope you can appreciate that. it's illegal. you don't take information from a hostile foreign power in the midst of an american election. >> lisa: what about paying for it like hillary clinton did? >> juan: for what? >> lisa: paying for information from russia officials, which is what christopher steele did for the dossier. >> katie: we've got to go. joe biden gearing up to officially announce his presidential bid, and he is the favorite to win the nomination. but is he really the best bet to defeat president trump? we will debate it up next. plus, the number of apprehensions spiking, already surpassing the totals for alt last fiscal year. this, as mexican officials worn of a mother of all caravans heading to the u.s. will this finally convince congress to act? that's ahead. ♪ hopes you drive safely. but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise.

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♪ >> melissa: a new showdown could be looming at the border. reports of a massive caravan of about 10,000 migrants heading toward the u.s. the group has been described by mexico's interior secretary as "the mother of all caravans." it's expected to arrive in mexico city later this week. in the meantime, the number of apprehensions that the board are spiking. federal agents have detained more than 418,000 migrants so far this fiscal year. more than 404,000 in all of the last fiscal year. president trump tweeting about the latest caravan, saying, "a very big caravan of about 20,000 people started up through mexico. it has been reduced in size by mexico but is still coming. mexico must apprehend the remainder and will be forced to close that section of the border

and called up the military. the coyotes and cartels have weapons!" in the meantime, house democrats have asked a federal job don't want judge to block the plan to build the long-promised a wall along the southern border. juan, what is your reaction to the numbers coming up and what do you think the right solution is? >> juan: i think it's a crisis, but just my saying that word becomes political because the president has been saying it is something like a military crisis. you just saw in that tree, melissa, he's talking about sending troops to the border. again, i think it's a different type of crisis. i think it's a humanitarian crisis that has escalated and is out of control. largely not people who are invading us were threatening us, but people who are families who are seeking legal asylum. so we've got to find a way to deal with this. we can change the laws in congress with regard to asylum, we can assign more people to be judges and try to speed up the process so it doesn't just get hung up, but i think the president -- i noticed today he

was pointing out that mexicans trooper had disarmed some american troops and were going to have to deal with -- the people involved is that there was a mistake made about who was on what side of the border. >> lisa: that the problem, there's no decision! >> juan: some kind of armageddon -- everything he wants to blow up so he can help his political agenda, which is to build a wall. i wish he would have mexico pay for. >> katie: can we talk about why he is sending additional troops or wants to send additional troops? he wants to do that because of the humanitarian crisis we are seeing. we have this caravan of 20,000, but in el paso alone, they are getting that many people in five days coming into the processing center. think of it that way in terms of the numbers. >> melissa: we don't have border patrol -- >> katie: overwhelming numbers, they been taken off the front lines of the border and there are no working at processing centers on a military and disaster issues while you

have video coming out of arizona this week showing heavily masked and armed cartel members escorting a woman and her child, human trafficking people bring to the border and putting them across into the united states illegally. because the agents are distracted by this mentoring crisis, they are not dealing with the very serious cartel element. just this week, people were assaulted. one from honduras and one from ecuador, while doing their job patrolling the board. they are understaffed as a result of the mandatory disaster congress refuses to change. >> elizabeth: americans are done with the politics of this. they see everything you just said, and people understands women and children. yes, it's a mentoring crisis. leave it there. the way to do it is what the president has been trying to do. fix the border. to address it. it's what democrats including barbara jordan and bill clinton, going back for decades, have been saying. fix the border.

move on, get it done. it's putting people's lives at risk. our laws are a magnet. to understand why they aren't being fixed right now. >> lisa: and that's the point, elizabeth. we need to get to the why. why is it happening? the reason it's happening is because they can't. these asylum-seekers know they can come to united states, game the system, and they know how easy it is to pass the initial interview with our immigration officials. once they are in the united states it will likely become part of the 22 million illegal immigrants living here in the united states. they also know that congress won't do anything about it. as we saw with the latest dhs funding bill where they actually gave deportation amnesty to potential sponsors of unaccompanied minors. what kind of signals to think that sends individuals from central america to incentivize them to come to the united states? not only that, you have democrats were literally saying that illegal immigrants living here in the interior are somehow not illegal. that they are legal immigrants. and advocating for

abolishing i.c.e., getting rid of them, or making it more difficult for them to do their job by reducing the detention beds. the point is, the reason this is happening is because they can. nobody's doing anything about it. the president's hands are tied and it takes congress, and they have no interest in addressing it. >> sandra: one >> melissa: they have to do something. there's a mentoring crisis going on. politicians are so focused on fighting with each other and trying to score political points on both sides that no one is doing anything. they are just watching the whole thing develop and get worse. >> juan: we were talking about solutions. i appreciated that point. but part of it -- the president will say, "i will cut aid to places like guatemala and el salvador." i do think, "wait a second, that is central to keeping these people from joining caravans and trying to come here." i think -- >> katie: somebody running for president to guatemala was just arrested for trafficking drugs and weapons into united states.

some of the money to corrupt practices. but the problem is in the current crisis we have in the humanitarian aspect, we are constantly debating in this country with the do with people who are brought here illegally by their parents. right now thousands of people are bringing their children into the united states illegally by falsely claiming asylum. in ten or 15 years we will be having this conversation all over again about what to do -- to be given amnesty, do we deport their parents? it's a crisis upon a crisis that they are creating for themselves by not acting. >> lisa: he's also putting pressure on the other countries to do something prethat's the point of threatening to cut aid. >> melissa: doj inspector general michael horowitz during a deep dive into the trump campaign, summer and cold water on the efforts to peach president trump. we will debate. what could happen when the next she would drops? plus, president trump upping his dispute with some in the media ahead of the white house correspondents dinner as he orders his staff to boycott the event. whether it's a good move to fire

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♪ >> lisa: welcome back. president trump is reportedly escalating his dispute with some of the media, reportedly telling officials and his administration to boycott saturday's annual white house correspondents dinner after controversy it last year's event. the president only to said he would skip it for the third year in a row and all the competing row instead. still, the organization's president is optimistic about the upcoming event, saying, "we're looking forward to an enjoyable evening celebrating the first amendment and great journalists, past, present, and future." so nice. juan, why would president trump want to attend a dinner where many of the reporters in the room spread false narrative about him regarding collusion? >> juan: i don't think that's fair. in fact, the mueller report confirm so many of the stories he had labeled us fake news. i think what's happening here is

related to yesterday, he met with jack dorsey, that are traded. "you guys aren't fair to republicans. i think you're pushing some --" twitter says, "we have one standard for all," and that's about it. for people who are trump supporter to sense that the media is the bad guy, the enemy of the people, took with the president, a place that sense of grievance. i think this accelerates it. i must say, i thought that last year -- and i think you were there last year -- that senator sanders was treated horribly by michelle wolf. because it was kind of like she is our guest. i don't think you attack your guest in your house. i think that's not good behavior. >> lisa: i appreciate that, because i think a lot of people felt that at last year's dinner. anything else you want to respond to, katie? >> katie: that, to me, is the question. there were a lot of reporters and the association who were actually upset with her comments -- michelle wolf's display, and her routine. her allegedly "comedic" routine,

which wasn't funny. they said it did a lot of damage to the already-fledgling reputation of the white house press cord. so this year they have hired a historian to try and kind of regain their reputation with the dinner. who is going to talk about the first amendment and the history of the presidency. so we will see. but that's also boring. [laughter] spew what it could be interesting if you're has rebuffed. i would say this, it's a shame everything has gotten political to the point where we don't have fun anymore. i saw michelle wolf twice in person after that event. she did nothing political at all the entire way through, and she was totally hilarious. i think that she thought this would play to the crowd when she did that roast, and it was totally inappropriate. but otherwise she is a really good comic and it kind of speaks to how everything has gotten so political we can't have any fun anymore. we can't be together anymore. if we could just set aside -- maybe we could make a list of

things that you could try to avoid talking about if you're going to have a fun evening. my mother-in-law always said, "no politics, no religion, and you can have a good dinner." [laughter] >> lisa: i say we can't have anything nice anymore. [laughs] at >> melissa: we can't have anything fun anymore! >> lisa: elizabeth, i have always said this would president trump said he was going to go. i think it's smart politically. he's out of the people. it's going to michigan, wisconsin, or drills. meanwhile his goal of these elitists hobnobbing in washington, d.c., in their suits and dresses. i think the juxtaposition is good for them. how do you think the voters perceive this customer >> elizabeth: i don't think they care, frankly. i think you should go and he shouldn't ban people from going. that's what i think. if people want to go, go. i think this is about supporting free speech on the first amendment. got that, check, understand, and we will celebrate. but it's also a fun night and to get to see people. i'm not sure banning people and stopping them from going.

>> lisa: well, it's this weekend. >> katie: be solved it. >> lisa: problem solved, as always on the couch! [laughs] the doj inspector general report on fisa abuse involving top obama era cia officials could drop next month. why it could create roadblocks trimming democratic efforts to impeach the president. we will debate it. stay with us. ♪ its r a va loan for up to 100% of your home's value. thank you, admiral. so if you need money for your family, call newday usa. need cash? at newday, veteran homeowners can get $54,000 dollars or more to consolidate high rate credit card debt and lower their payments by $600 every month.

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seems to be focused on undermining the dossier. "horwitz's team has been focused on engaging christopher steele's credibility as a source for the beer. one left the interview with the impression that it is going to train deeply undermine steele." meanwhile, it might be hard to describe it. "prominent democrats have accused miller failing to do his duty and barr interest of trouble over the next people. they will have a more difficult time assuming a harvard lawyer appointed by president obama." here's rudy giuliani on how he thinks the perp began. watch. >> something like this has all the markings of rogue counterintelligence guys setting up papadopoulos, the meeting with don jr. they start this jake it don't mike dubke like to get to get investigation. comey starts it right after he

finishes with hillary, you take the same people who invested her investigator, and were in le with her, peter strzok, all of this has to be the >> katie: how the fma views the steele dossier, democrat propaganda gained through a foreign spy through russian sources to launch an investigation with one of the most powerful law enforcement eight agencies in the country, not to mention the work come to spy on a political campaign. >> lisa: exactly. and i've been making the point that i think the investigation started with the dossier because they had already met with christopher steele prior to launching cross fire hurricane. he had already started working on the dossier. you don't necessarily need the inspector general defined he's not credible. just to some google searches. he has also admitted to using things like cnn i report, which is a random individual posting stuff with no editorial scrutiny

applied to it. just random people posting it. he also admitted in court before that he can't verify the veracity of some of the parts of the dossier. also, because of the documents surrounding bruce ohr, christopher steele was intensely worried about being exposed with the firing of james coming. so i don't know how people are defending his credibility. when we work will not get to the bottom of this, it'll be built on russian disinformation. >> katie: juan, the question is whether democrats will take what the inspector general says as fact or they will continue to try and discredit the work of the mueller investigation, bill barr, and if this report comes out, showing that information. whether they will accept it. >> juan: i think it's acceptable. remember, he went after people like mccabe. remember andrew mccabe, where he said he thought he behaved improperly? nobody said, "oh, horwitz's reported so political and partisan as to be discredited." that wasn't the case. but the focus, if the focus is

on the steele dossier, it's misplaced. i think what republicans -- and you guys, speak up -- but i think it's about the fisa warrant and the fisa court authorizing. those requests to the court were done repeatedly. if it was solely based on the steele dossier, then that would be improper even if it was a legitimate information-gathering operation. i will let someone else judge that, but i believe that the fisa courts are what is under attack here. and i worry about that. because we need confidentiality in those courts in order to root out foreign interference. >> elizabeth: some of the courts are unconstitutional and super constitutional, then why do they exist? bob woodward was saying that it's highly dubious. finally "the new york times" is saying this -- the issue was we had a clinton foundation clearly questionable doings, potential corruption. was that steele dossier then used as a diversion away from

the four probes into the clinton foundation? because it was paid for by the dnc and hillary clinton's campaign. that law firm. don't know about that. what is striking is trying to impugn the integrity now of ig horwitz that is going to try and undermine -- he is only weighing in the balance of facts. he is trying to get to the bottom of it. he is an esteemed, respected man of integrity. to try and go after michael horowitz and i would be very dubious indeed. >> melissa: it would be great if we can restore people's trust and all of these different systems. i think when rod rosenstein -- i give him a lot of credit for not leaving when he said he was going to. sticking around and standing behind barr during that press conference, to stand as a united front. if this is one step further, if horwitz can research everything, like you said -- it shouldn't be that one single focus. they should be looking at everything that went on by everyone along the way. in this group of people who has been accused of being on all sides could stand together in a

conclusion, maybe we could finally feel like we can trust with these reports say, what should be a huge relief. >> katie: and the systems come as you said. former vice president joe biden expected entry of the present to race tomorrow. now he's leaving the field and much of the polling. but some believe the left wing of the party doesn't want any part of biden. whether it will hurt democrat chances against trump. we will debate. >> biden is putting office announcement -- i don't know how badly he really wants this. and you have to really want this if you're going to have any chance of winning it. ♪

♪ >> they are not going to win with the people that i see, and they are not going to win against me. the only way they can may be locked out -- and i don't think that's going to happen, it might make it even the opposite, that's what a lot of people are saying -- the only way they can look out is by constantly going after me on nonsense. >> melissa: president trump weighing in on the crowded field of democratic propaganda. and this as joe biden is expected to announce his white house bid via video tomorrow after months of

anticipation. and the former vice president set to enter the race is a front runner, rush limbaugh weighing in with matt dunning martha maccallum martha mccalla last night. >> joe biden is probably the best chance they've gotten he doesn't have a chance. joe biden? and crazy bernie, and mayor pete? we've got three white guys, two of them a brontosaurus is from jurassic park. that isn't going to sit well with the right of this party, which has gone so far left. >> on tell us what you really think i'm a rush. [former dnc chair and by now i also says they have the best shot against trump. >> it's going to be tougher donald trump to call joe biden and the democratic party led by by joe biden socialists. and donald trump's weapon is to take attention away from his future rector and scare people about bringing socialism to washington. he could do that with some other

candidates but he sure as heck you can do it with joe biden. >> melissa: a new monmouth university poll, the former vice president is leading the democratic field. that poll also finds that most democratic voters aren't concerned about diversity. 87% of those polled say race is not a factor. 77% aren't concerned about gender. president obama does not plan to endorse any candidate early in the primary process, if at all, during the primaries. juan, what do you think? who has the best chance to beat president trump? >> juan: electability is key. he sought in those numbers, they don't care if it's a person of color or a female. we just want somebody who can be to donald trump. joe biden gets in right now, i think in iowa. it's tied between biden and sanders. sanders wins in new hampshire. but then you go on to nevada, to

south carolina, and d.c. biden really jump ahead. the question is, can he jump ahead early on in the money game? i think that's going to be there early measure, melissa. which you saw from bernie sanders already. i think he raised like $6 million in the first eight weeks or something like that. >> melissa: something like that. >> juan: biden, when he ran last -- i think it's '07. they '07 cycle. he raised very little money. the social media phenomenon of individual small givers, which drove not only president trump's giving but has driven the democratic giving on the parts of someone like sanders. he just doesn't have it. >> lisa: on the money front i think it tells you everything about joe biden that he is essentially jeb bush, reporting on mega-donors as opposed to tht grassroots support. because he doesn't have it. the enthusiasm is not behind him like it is a bernie sanders or even president trump. you've got the majority of his money that comes from small dollar donors. also, question -- should we think he will release?

since you so don't like since he is so old and old-school customer [laughter] >> elizabeth: rush limbaugh is absolutely right. what rush is saying that the moderate democrats who won nancy pelosi back her gavel, won in districts that trump won or bittner omni won. there's about 40 of them. and a chocolate bernie sanders, for example, single payer, you know who that will eliminate? union workers. the big bargaining chip is their health care. if that's taken way with everybody -- it's about policy right now. rush is right. if it's bernie sanders, the democratic party's going over an ideological cliff. that will be very bad. it could be a wipeout. >> melissa: kitty , >> melissa: kt, juan makes a good point. it has really shifted from

wanting that big, influential donors going to give you a bunch of money to the real money that moves the needle. it's the little money from other people out there that turns into huge money. >> katie: and people who are donating our voters. those individual people are going to show up at the polls on primary day and during the general election because they have a stake in it. they believe in it, they have given to the campaign, they are not rich people, average salaries and willing to put some of their money toward it. i want to go back to the polling for democrats saying that 77% of people don't care about the diversity question, which completely exposes their entire narrative about republicans again. when they are always talking about diversity and how you have to have -- to tackle these boxes to prove that you are a progressive. and if you don't, you're just a racist republican right-winger. clearly that doesn't matter to them. you're just using it as a political weapon against the right. in terms of joe biden launching the campaign, i was in ohio recently and they were saying there are tons of people -- democrats voted for donald trump, they changed the

party affiliation. for democrats committed the state and try and pull the loyalty away from donald trump, it's going to be difficult for them to do that. spew on the president has just arrived on air force one in atlanta, georgia. this is that the international airport. he will be speaking to the prescription drug and heroin summit that is starting about 1:15 p.m. he and the first lady both will be speaking there at the hyatt regency hotel, talking about how the opiate crisis has improved just a bit. you seen some headway. it's a victory lap on that and also talk about what's coming next. we'll be right back. let newday's operation home help you buy a home with no down payment and not one dollar out of pocket for closing costs. with automatic authority from the va, newday can say yes when banks say no. so stop renting. start looking.

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they vowed to fight that democratic subpoenas of white house aides. that's president trump, we want to show you right now, landing on the ground now in atlanta. they're going to the prescription drug and heroin summit in atlanta where they are going to talk about the progress that has been made recently in the opioid crisis. those numbers have gotten better but now there is a new goal, to cut the overdose deaths by opioids by 40% over the next three years. a lot of money going in that to fight the epidemic. specific causes, specific solutions. we will bring you that as soon as it happens. you are seeing there, they are exiting the plane and what looks like to be a beautiful day in atlanta, georgia. judging by the scene there. we are bringing you those comments as soon as they happen. let's go "outnumbered overtime" now. i'm melissa francis in tod