"outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: we begin with a fox news alert, new details in the investigation underway into a horrific shooting at a southern california synagogue. authorities have reviewed social media posts from the suspected gunman who burst into the house of worship on saturday shooting and killing one woman who was being hailed as a hero today. injuring three others including the rabbi. here is the account of the attack. >> here is a young man standing with a rifle, pointing right at me. and i looked at him and he had sunglasses on and come i couldn't see his eyes and i couldn't see his hole. >> harris: william la jeunesse is in california, william >> harris, the founder said you are listening to a rabbi that should be dead.

the rabbi gave a touching heartfelt, heartbreaking accounts really of what happened here on saturday when he did come face-to-face with the gunman who shot him and took the life of his close friend. then he had to watch as the husband, physician feint while giving his wife cpr. their daughter visiting from los angeles had to watch her mother die. goldstein passing would not be in vain. >> i will never forget yesterd yesterday. it will forever store me physically. but it is going to remind me of where we are and also how heroic each one of them can be. and we all have to make this world a better place to prevent this from ever happening again. >> william: another member of the synagogue was a hero, 51-year-old navy veteran who

joined the army in 9/11. he normally sits in the front row but he's had for some reason, he was standing in the back. he heard the burst of gunfire and he sold the muzzle flashes and rushed out the shooter. he stopped fiery -- primer ivory -- either because he was stunned, scared or the weapon was jammed. by the time i got to him, was this close. >> i could see when he fired that the rounds went up and do down. >> william: so the memorial grew on sunday with flowers and we learn new details, the border patrol agent, jonathan marella's retrieve the weapon inside the synagogue. it was not his service firearm. it was reserved there for law enforcement members. when they are here, the rabbi told them, be armed. we don't know when we might need it. goldstein told him that following and active shooter

drill. so the rabbi said again, hey if i had an armed security guard in the lobby, maybe i could have neutralized the shooter. also, we know the alleged shooter, jonathan ernest, john earnest, excuse me 19 years old in nursing student at nearby cal state san marcos is in jail right now. no bail and he will be arraigned wednesday murder and attempted murder charges. but under california a moratorium if you will on the death penalty. also today a memorial service may funeral rather for lori k. >> harris: thank you very much, william. and vice president joe biden's vision for america expected to go head-to-head against president trump's vision today and biden holding his first official campaign rally in the heart of the rust belt. the former vice president testing his message for america's working class against president trump and is handling a booming economy. this i "outnumbered."

melissa francis fox news lisa boothe, fox news contributor jessica tarlov in the center seat former utah congressman and fox news contributor jason chaffetz and he is "outnumbered," hey, joe biden usually jumps in. >> jason: what is this number 20, i mean, 40, i don't know. >> harris: they set a record. i think there could be more. >> harris: former vice president joe biden heading to pittsburgh with campaign appearance since launching bid for the 2020 candidate nomination last week. president trump reelection bid is in full swing as you know. the president held a rally higher than expected 3.2% gdp growth in the first quarter of this year. >> this is an exciting time for our great country. this is an exciting time for america.

3.2% in the first quarter. gdp -- gdp and accelerating economic growth. we are now the number one economy anywhere in the world, and it's not even close. >> harris: president trump obviously was having some fun and also taking aim at the top democrats looking to challenge him in 2020. >> by the way, saturday night, is there any place that is more fun than a trump rally? [cheers and applause] can you imagine sleepy joe, crazy bernie -- >> harris: sleepy joe, we will have more of that in a moment. former vice president looking to do some critical swing work and critical swing states but hillary clinton failed to lock down in 2016. earlier today, he picked up an endorsement international

association of firefighters out of the big rally. here is the iaff general president on why his guy can win it all. >> joe biden is genuine and has the ability to connect and touch and speak to those workers. and those voters. and bring them back. he also has the ability to speak to those workers. and particularly in the states that are key in the next presidential election to be able to connect with them. quite frankly, they did not feel connected to by the democratic nominee in 2016. >> harris: meanwhile new polling suggest the economy could be a winning issue for president trump. an abc "washington post" poll shows nearly four and ten voters a president trump paneling of the economy makes them more likely to vote for him. that just call it 40%, shall we? but those numbers go south when voters asked about issues like health care and illegal immigration. it is about the economy, and

these other issues are hot and important. but it comes down to what people feel and their homes. >> jason: i thought it was interesting that joe biden connects. i haven't seen evidence of that but there's lots of evidence that he does touch. i can tell you that. but i tell you, donald trump, but he does. >> melissa: nobody is arguing with you. be when he said, and he touches people. >> jason: but i will tell you i think donald trump has the win and his sale. he's as strong as he ever has been with mueller report in the rearview mirror and being cleared of any sort of collusion and the other noise along with that. the economy is singing. donald trump is on the right side of immigration issue and the one issue for republicans in general, they have to get the issue of health care moving in the right direction. if they don't come up with a consistent issue to solve this

problem and drive down the cost of health care, they will be confused, and i think the democrats can win that issue. >> harris: it is interesting when you talk about the economy, that make sense. a fifth and a six of the u.s. economy. so you can't have a booming economy without a plan, jessica. >> jessica: i agreed that the democrats went the midterm running on health care. they will do that again here, but there are no more -- more numbers than "the washington post" that are in -- 55% said they will not vote for donald trump, 62% of women and 63% of college educated women. the most important number i sell 53% of seniors said they will not vote for donald trump in 2020. these numbers can change, but that group by nine points in 2016. we know the seniors are reliable voters, much more so than younger people. that his wife there have been stories that we have seen that the president is targeting seniors with facebook ads specifically. that is an incredibly dangerous number. we knew he had a woman a problem

but senior problem on top of that. >> harris: how widespread this polling will be and how long it will hold. let me finish, things change once the primary season gets going. so my question is, is there a problem and what has changed with senior voters. >> jessica: we will see. look all of this is sort of knoe democratic nominee is. the general election is going to basically depend almost entirely on who that nominee is my president trump is facing. so we really don't know. >> harris: so a senior? >> melissa: i think ultimately it comes down to the economy for quite some time ago looking at the economic model or a trend to predict president trump's win in 2016 who basically said they economy is so strong right now and historical incompetency, he will be so difficult to beat and also people talk about joe biden in a general election dynamic,

but he has to get there, a progressive organization that basically says joe biden is a position where the democratic party is right now. >> harris: all right can make you and i have talked about nicknames but here is the president in a tweet. sleepy joe biden is having his first rally in the great state of pennsylvania and he obviously doesn't know that pennsylvania is having one of the best economic years in history with lowest unemployment ever and now driving steel industry, parenthetically that was dead and great future! i think it is interesting that they will talk economy within the same 48 hour period. joe biden, this will be his focus and this is interesting because one place where the numbers speak for themselves. you can argue democrats can say the economy is terrible, but when terrible for some people or whatever it is, but when you look at the actual facts, jamie dimon, during the earnings out last time talking about the fact

consumers have their best in this country they have had in 30 years, that is what they were making and what they own versus what they owe. home prices are up my wages are up, car sales are up and job growth is up so there's no arguing that americans economically overall are much better off and they know it. in your earnings polled you can't state -- say stuff like that as an opinion. those are numerical effects of the democrats will be talking down the real numbers. >> harris: so where do democrats get in on this conversation? do some people not feel as good as others in the fight? >> jason: i think they are void of a message that makes sense. >> melissa: did they have one last time? >> harris: even jessica says no. >> jason: democrats have been arguing how much more the tax increase will be. they are all about the tax increase. >> harris: what is the message that works for hillary clinton on the economy last time 2016?

>> jessica: what democrats are talking about and i understand making fun of hillary at the last election -- >> harris: no, i want to give you an opportunity to tell me yes, what was the economic message? >> jessica: we want to build on economic progress with making the system more fair. democratic capitalism is just capitalism as elizabeth warren says. you can look at elizabeth warren's policies -- >> melissa: they voted for change in 2016. >> jessica: and may be in 2020 they will. listen, i know how important the income is the effect is. we can minimize the argument democrats have to make about the fact that people at the top are getting a bigger cut than they should or corporations to lower their rates. a few points like we had under bill clinton. so huge success is something that might resonate with americans. >> melissa: although my texas went way up. >> jessica: really? no, it's not to have a just society where we make sure

everybody is taking care of their families it's not a convoluted message. it is a humane message. >> harris: i wonder what you get in when you know there compartmentalization of voters. when you look at the lowest in 50 years, black unemployment and you have a message like that to a group that democrats feel like sometimes, those who i have talked to have the loudest point in the room for that. what do you say to people like that? >> jessica: we talk about criminal justice reform. >> jason: which donald trump -- >> harris: of the president has done that. >> jessica: you can say this but the idea of the republican party will be the party of african-american voters because of that policy is silly. you have to look at decades of support from that community and ensuring their policy is put in place like a power man's own. >> lisa: elections if you take off the vote share how that can change the dynamics of the election greatly. >> jessica: yeah, sure and i'm

sure -- come on guys. >> harris: on the taxation role quickly because she is at the texas one up but a lot of people on the east coast felt that because of all the deductions because they are in a high tax bracket. >> lisa: who is your biggest expense every week in your paycheck? it is the government. if making minimum wage, before you buy the first loaf of bread for your children before you say more government and higher taxes, no it is taking food out of your children's mouth no matter how much money you make. >> harris: all right, we will move on. new reaction to some in the mainstream media having a field day with the white house honoring the first lady's birthday. did their coverage go too far? we will debated. a potential new showdown over the mueller report and attorney general to skip a house hearing the democratic chairman says he will use all the powers at his disposal to get answers. how does this play out for democrats and the party urging

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>> harris: a potential subpoena showdown on the hill as democratic lawmakers return to washington after a two-week recess. split over how aggressively they want to pursue an investigation into the president and the mueller report. attorney general william barr is scheduled to appear before the senate judiciary committee on wednesday, and the house judiciary panel on thursday. but now the attorney general saying he may not show up at the house hearing.

after chairman jerry nadler says he wants to have a staff lawyer question the attorney general in addition to lawmakers. the doj responding in a statement, the attorney general agreed to appear before congress. therefore members of congress should be the ones doing the questioning. chairman nadler firing back and threatening to force the attorney general to testify "we will have to subpoena him. we will have to use whatever means we can to force the subpoena." not all share the chairman's enthusiasm. a florida district previously held by a republican last week said "there's a lot going on. there is the mueller report. there is the talk about impeachment but meanwhile people like me are trying to get something done that will improve people's lives." were you laughing at the subpoena? >> jason: that is, quote somebody issued subpoenas against the people -- >> melissa: and have no impact? >> jason: your subpoenas only

as strong as those to enforce it. the reality if you want to enforce subpoena you have to go to the department of justice to support it. that is today's president and i'm not saying it is right but that is today's president. good luck petitioning the department of justice to force the attorney general to come. it is absurd. >> harris: it is also interesting clearly congress knows they are elcon to questioning him so they want to bring in council. is that fair? >> jason: under house rules and senate rules you can have professional staff doing the questioning. if you recall the supreme court had the senate and senate invited staff to do that. you are allowed to do it under the rules, but there is nothing that forces the attorney general to voluntarily comment testify before the house judiciary committee. the attorney general has been so accommodating and open that he doesn't even have to release this report. he is going to testify before the senate. i don't think jerry nadler will get far in forcing him to try to come and forcing him to answer

questions given to him by staff. i think his point is, you want me to come to congress, then let congressmen and women ask these questions, but i don't think nadler thinks it will be a fair fight. i don't think the democratic members have much to say about this report. speed to jessica, does it have to be a fight? when he's been there for questioning before, it seems like he has a long time answer the questions. and when nugent said he had somewhere else to be periods before it is a very important appointment that he needed with steven mnuchin and maxine waters but i think after the press conference that bill barr gave before he released the report and there were questions proposed that he said i'm not answering that and in fact, the journalist did not have the report ahead of time to ask the questions possible went to get a 400 or so page document makes us more difficult. the argument that i've heard over and over and i'm glad you brought up what happened with

dr. lacey ford and question outside staff attorneys. it is not up to the witness to decide the circumstances under which they are question but up to the chairman and i don't know if he will comply with the subpoena. i doubt that he will. he doesn't want staff attorneys asking him these questions, but you get into the conversation about stonewalling and the fact that president trump has told people to ignore subpoenas, including people white house aides. when you say there is nothing for democrats to talk about, there were ten specific points with obstruction of justice laid out in the mueller report from a analyst judge napolitano that says this does run out. >> melissa: we are going to run out of time. >> lisa: if you are in the white house and turned over 1.4 million documents and white house counsel to sit before the special counsel for 30 hours and you know the special counsel investigation, 2800 subpoenas, 500 search warrants and 500 witnesses, it is kind of fair to say really we

have to participate and you want more from this? you are not finished after this investigation went on for two years now. if you are attorney general for after the left has tried to tar him. and i would pay attention to who is saying what and what they are saying because if you look at the people, donna show layla, and nancy pelosi whose interest to keep th hou, they are saying maybe let's not go down this road. it is the people like alexandria ocasio-cortez who will not face the tough general election that are the ones that want to move forward. >> harris: and some people think this is about drama, lindsey graham, let's listen. >> i think it is all theater and it doesn't matter, it's what he did. and the president never obstructed. name one thing they did to stop mueller from doing his job? if you can't, there is no obstruction. >> harris: here is the problem because the american people have waited for the mueller report,

and it came down in basically two different stages. the four-page letter and then you have the actual redacted form. and then less redacted form out there not in the public but in congress and people trying to get their hands on more. so you had all of that, and then you have to ask the question when is enough enough? new enrollment for health care just less than six months away, voting in a year and a half in the presidential election. how do you sell this? you have to sell it unless you're doing everything else. are you fixing health care, are you fixing illegal immigration? >> jason: i think lindsey graham is right. by the time of this week it will have come and gone. it is a joke for democrats to suggest they will subpoena white house staff. they know the democrats, the democrats know under president obama and all the other presidents they get executive privilege. you can call before then people come from for that senate -- >> harris: but the white house waited for one member of the staff. >> jason: to suggest the former white house general counsel will testify before the committee, that is observed. stephen miller, that is

observed. it is not going to happen. we politely asked the obama administration to do it but they claimed executive privilege and it was done. trump will win this fight every single way. >> harris: criticism of the genesis of this probe, let's listen end. >> look at what has happened with the scum that is leading the very top of government. people that others used to say, these were dirty, dirty cults. these were dirty players. they are just got caught like nobody ever got caught. in a truer sense of the word, what we are doing now is draining the swamp. >> harris: last word to jessica. >> jessica: that is great to call intel officer scum. and we've heard it before, talking about it as a coup, but that's not how the majority of people feel. you saw if they are, sanders testified to mueller and got caught up in that lie that she said tons of people reached out

and said they don't have trust in james comey which was complete falsehood. it is not a successful argument to win a general election but to win a rally. >> jason: wait until the inspector general comes and testifies. then we will see if this is going on. >> jessica: okay. >> harris: we will reconvene then. president trump continuing to send illegal immigrants to sanctuary city to individuals in one county near the border to keep migrants from being bused they are. how this solves the crisis at the border. we will debate that when next. >> jason: my position if you call yourself a sanctuary, let m live there. i had a heart problem. i was told to begin my aspirin regimen, and i just didn't listen. until i almost lost my life. my doctors again ordered me to take aspirin,

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and schools and hospitals and public resources like nobody's ever seen before. now, we are sending many of them to sanctuary cities. i'm proud to tell you, that was my sick idea. >> harris: president trump doubling down on his proposal to transfer detained illegal immigrants to sanctuary cities. white house officials say, that is not currently happen, but the president is keeping the spotlight on the issue. and officials in new mexico otero county have raised the alarm over potential influx of migrants. the chairman of the county board of commissioners say they plan to vote on a resolution that would block migrants being sent there. and he and the states former governor calling on new mexico sanctuary cities to shoulder more of the burden, watch. >> santa fe, which declares themselves to be a sanctuary county, their mayor recently said we don't want them here. they are not going to receive them and santa fe county, but yet they say they we will raise the funds so y'all can put them

in your backyards. >> at one point, they are having to bus them to other locations that can absorb them. it is impossible. >> harris: that says everything. local officials say giving new mexico's democratic governor one week to take emergency action where they may sue the state. is that going to work? what needs to happen? >> jason: congress needs to do its job, but the democrats are slowly, reluctantly, hopefully getting a wake-up call. when you have the former homeland security secretary jeh johnson saying there was a problem and you have thomas friedman saying yes, we actually need the bill into law. and you have -- dick durbin actually said and use the word crisis, humanitarian crisis at the border. get real, folks. we are talking about hundreds of thousands of real people and children that need to be addressed. we can't keep offering all of these rewards and incentives to come here illegally. >> harris: and that sheriffs

tweed, if you will paraphrase, parts of california, hollywood, kind of waking up to this too jessica but is this approaching it to eight hi -- tipping point for democrats? >> jessica: yes, i think so. going into 2020 when president trump is going to make this one if not his marquis issue plus the fact over 100,000 people across the border on a monthly basis now, you do start talking like dick durbin like dick durbin anticrisis. jeh johnson saying a three prong crisis going back to central america and the asylum system and actually the border is a smart way to approach it. i remain hopeful the gang of eight, the gang of six, somebody gets back together to deal with this because it's a boom for both parties but most people living in the border counties. >> harris: it's a boom for the entire country. we have sanctuary cities all over the country. >> jessica: i think part of that with president trump referencing and sending them to sanctuary cities is to force conversations like he did to shut down the southern border and border and all of a sudden

people recognize indeed we have a crisis on the border. but the only logical conclusion i can come to congress does not want to solve this problem because it would be easy. you look at the asylum laws and the massive disconnect between the people that passed the first interview and then the very small proportion granted asylum and of course make it easier to have families, detain families longer than 2008 antihuman trafficking law, a loophole that treats central american's unaccompanied central americans different than mexicans. it is not that hard. congress does not want to solve that. that is the only logical coke collusion. >> harris: you know, just because you live in a sanctuary city or when designated as such does not mean you support the policy of not letting ice go out and pick up people who need to be picked up. >> melissa: that is true but you continue to live there and vote those folks in office. he lived by the policies of the people that are ruling and if you don't like it, you can vote for somebody else the next time.

i think that if, it sanctuary city, if you're an illegal immigrant, don't you want to go to a sanctuary city where they will not cooperate with eyes? >> harris: they end up they are so that seems to be the case. >> melissa: you must want to go there. >> lisa: you talk about tipping points and things that are changing. when you hear others either homeland security or defense law enforcement, you look at them and say, we have to let people go because the detention centers are full, i start to ask the question jason, where these people going? melissa points out maybe they want to go to sanctuary cities. >> jason: this is where i get so point -- frustrated with the democrats. they say they care and are compassionate but will not find enough beds to make sure these families can stay together. they don't care but they put enough people in the border patrol to deal with it. some border patrol taking care of people, doing diapers, getting them apple juice,

compassionate things, but ultimately, they are not on the border. when the democrats endorsing she wears cities, they won't fund the wall. they sent a signal to people central and south america come up here because if you can somehow break into the country, we will not deport you. that is a perverted, wrong, fundamentally wrong thing to do. >> jessica: fundamentally i think you misunderstand what sanctuary cities are about. they are creating an environment 11-13000000 people who have been here a long time -- >> jason: no, it is enticing for the people to come here and break laws. in engaging in human trafficking. >> jessica: can i finish my sentence? many people who are here and are paying taxes, by the way. >> jason: if they pay taxes -- $0.01 will make a difference because they are here, paying taxes? >> jessica: let me just register my opposition to what you are saying and then may be during the break i will tell you what i'm going to say. and the fact that there are a number of republicans they are

that do think a good idea including new york city is a sanctuary city, rudy giuliani wasn't important and we will talk during the break. >> harris: and i will report what comes out of that. progressive 2020 hopefuls like senator elizabeth warren and bernie sanders pushing free college plans as the mainstream. now, however, the proposals facing criticism from unannounced likely pairing. keep watching. >> we spent 18 years paying off college debt and then they turn around and make it free for the next guy and you will be okay with that? ♪

>> harris: we are still talking about it as you know we would be. real quickly the congressman and jessica made up during the commercial break. they didn't mean to, but it was interesting because jessica, you said if they are paying taxes but your illegally and jason chimed in. the fact of the matter is, you are both making points that we have talked about during this

commercial. any last word? >> jason: we will need another hour. >> harris: i know we are. [laughter] nothing is free, like a free lunch and neither is college. somebody will be paying for this free college, and it will be taxpayers. so are we releasing someone who didn't go to college should be subsidizing the people who went and got the benefit from going to college and make more money? is that a liberal think? >> you look at the benefit -- beneficiaries of that in the proposal, to higher income people and if you are buying votes, you go with the people who you think will vote. >> melissa: joining the conservatives come with the question of free public college as the cash is on among 2020 democrats. elizabeth warren and bernie sanders effective debt free college proposals. last week warren unveiled a plan for most college students based on income. her campaign estimates the entire proposal will cost $1.25 trillion over the next ten

years. so this is definitely a hot topic in the democrat. amy klobuchar has pushed back on this and talked about the fiscal responsibility of that but do you think that is a resignation message or just all in? >> lisa: it's all in how you frame it because you give taxpayer dollars for free college, what you are doing is giving money to these universities that already have huge bloated budgets wasting money left and right and i don't know why we would take money away from things that people need more you know, how about immigration? and give it to the universities that are already wealthy beyond comparison. the same thing with forgiving the debt. why not make the university bear the burden for the fact that they sold people degrees that were not worth what they paid for them. you know that economically because they weren't able to get a job with that degree that would pay back the loan. so by definition, the degree that they earned was not worth what they paid for it.

that is fraud. i mean, university should be the ones to lose the money, not taxpayers and not the students took on the debt thinking they were going to get a job that would pay for it. they were maybe naive, but certainly, the real people at fault or the universities. >> jason: i mean, a man to just what you said appeared remember maxine waters a couple of weeks ago brought up all of these banks and wanted to know e people and getting these college loans. >> melissa: they are not. >> jason: the obama administration is pushing the sector out. i got to tell you the price of college is exorbitant and i have two kids in college, -- absolutely ridiculous outpaces inflation and has to be dealt with. we want people to get an education, but we also have to say you know what it is okay to get vocational education. there are other ways to get an education and to push online is a great way to go and save a lot of money and educate. >> harris: you hear people like micro and when you hear mie

speaking about bringing back the integrity of the worker and vocational skills and having us valued that. my parents, white people from the south, so everybody had a vocation and my dad was the first in the family to go to college. that was a really big thing, but at the end of the day, everybody had something they could do with their mind and their hands. it wasn't determined by anything other than their own personal responsibility. that is not to take the shine off of vocation but puts a focus on something else that might be a choice in today's society again. >> jessica: the obama administration and trump administration have talked about apprenticeship moving forward. do you think that could be a winning message? if we accept it, it will cost a lot in these proposals will continue to be pushed, but -- >> lisa: cost so much because of federal substance ionization of student loans. and the federal reserve bank of new york among many others that

basically show college is no tuition will be covered via these loans, they can check up the prices. and also just makes perfect sense but i think bill makes a point and the message should be to voters about basically why should americans be subsidizing other people's choices, particularly if you didn't go to college yourself or fallen on hard times why should you pay for someone else to go to college? >> jessica: that is why there are a number of proposals. they are not one-size-fits-all but the argument against them -- >> harris: why not try it too like my dad who served from a target to something that is part of the makeup of this country? >> jessica: some people will argue that is taking it backwards but if things worked n great ideas can't we take them forward? >> jason: but elizabeth warren and others more free, more expenditures, spending a trillion plus dollars -- >> harris: but that makes it better? >> jessica: moral economic argument i was talking about, that they are making the rights to have rights and an education.

we've got to go. coverage of the first lady is back in the news has summoned the media to mock this tweet from the white house. on melania trump's first day. is double standard with the first lady? that is up next. ok everyone! our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy.

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- there but what are wes to get our messactually saying?ys.is. any message is a story. and all stories tell the tale of the times we live in right now. how do you want to be remembered? how do you want your story to play out? our own experiences make the best stories, and your words carry a lot of weight. think about what you want to say before you say it. or send it. >> harris: welcome back.

new reaction mainstream coverage with the first lady after some new outlets appeared to mock this white house tweet on first lady melania trump's birthday. nbc news covering it with the headlines "white house celebrates melania trump's birthday with bizarre photo." an anonymous tweet, where are her child and husband? even mia farrow getting in on the act, so strange. congresswoman, i will go to you. why do you think the white house elect at that photo? >> jason: i don't know but she's a beautiful woman a first lady and kept off of the side, barren and it's hard enough to raise a family let alone to raise one in that bubble. shame on them for doing this. she has been a wonderful first lady. she's done everything right and i wish they would treat her with the same respect and reverence that we did michelle obama. >> harris: what is wrong with the picture? i don't get it. it made me want to go out and buy a green dress.

>> lisa: she always looks gorgeous. >> melissa: i think it is funny if somebody else were sitting there, they would say the picture is editorial, you know like everybody would be guessing, what is the statement that they are trying to make? the fact that it is her and they read into it, but i do think it is an unusual photo. you would think it would be -- >> jessica: just to be frank, is this basically giving her a middle finger to the press? i mean, that is pretty recent. >> melissa: it is all in what you read into the photo. you can say, like she stands alone, second-to-none or lonely on the couch. i mean, you can read into it what you want. >> jessica: it reminded me that she wore that jacket, i really don't care to you when she was headed to the border, right? and i think that is a narrative that her office has tried to create around her. you can say whatever you want

about her, she is doing her thing, agree with it or not. and that is just how things are. and you would expect maybe a smile because it's your birthd birthday. but jason, doesn't she have a reason to? >> jason: she just needs to smile more. >> jessica: she needs to be more likable too. >> harris: remember, just wearing the heels and the firestorm that created, the media has been unfair to her haven't they? >> jason: jessica with all do respect -- she should be more likable, that is just so unfair. >> jessica: that was a joke what people said about hillary. >> thank you. >> harris: there is something going on, happy birthday to the first lady, god bless you. it is also our birthday. five years ago on a monday, april 28th, and i know today is the 29th but you know how things work, the calendar and all.

not exactly new contact. we came out with a show and people just loved us from the beginning. and we are so blessed for that. we've had people on the couch today. we have had celebrities. we've had pat benatar and her husband at one time. that was cool. there you go. we've had jessica tarlov, congress people before and after congress. >> jason: you've had phenomenal success a good, vibrant show. you tackle the issues with the smiles on your face is so congratulations. i heard the cake boss made this thing. are you going to eat this thing? >> harris: it is fun to be here with all of you, thank you. congratulations. there you go. all right, we will have two cut into the cake but they didn't want us to do that on camera because i'm really messy. we will be right back. ♪

>> melissa: thank you so much to jason chaffetz, it's good to have you back. it's been a little bit!

>> jason: it's been good! east >> melissa: he waited until the weather got better. we are going to eat that cake now. harris, we will save some for you. we are back here on the couch at noon eastern tomorrow. here's harris. >> harris: we begin with a fox news alert. a california community is mourning the loss of a woman who sacrificed her life to protect her rabbi. and what has been described as a horrific hate crime. we go "outnumber overtime" now. i'm harris faulkner. a funeral will be held today for 60-year-old lori kaye, who stepped between the rabbi on the rail of a gun a 19 year old suspect is in police custody on first-degree murder charges. the rabbi is talking about that moment. >> two, three, footsteps. when i hear a loud bang. i