faith-based recovery. that was a really powerful moment there. the president saying that prayer saves lives. yes, bill, an unexpected turn of events. we took everybody three. >> bill: more tomorrow. >> sandra: see you back here tomorrow morning. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> melissa: fox news alert, an escalating showdown between the top administration and democrats in congress as the inch closer to a vote to hold attorney general william barr in contempt of congress. city he declined to testify before the house, an empty chair in his place. very dramatic. this is "outnumbered" and i'm melissa francis appeared here today, my partner, harris faulkner. fox business network anchor dagen mcdowell. fox news analyst and cohost of "benson & harf" on fox news radio, marie harf. joining us on the couch, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york and fox news contributor, andy mccarthy. we will lean heavily on your legal knowledge today as we sort

of try and sort through who is telling the truth about what's out there and what's available, and who is being dramatic. hopefully you can help us sort through it. >> andy: wonderful to be here, thank you. >> melissa: thank you. after attorney general barr testified before the senate yesterday, a short hearing in the house today. after he declined to attend the judiciary committee meeting. at issue is today's format. democrats demanding the ag answer questions from the committee's lawyers. doj officials saying the lawmakers should do the questioning. the committee's ranking republican calling today's hearing a political stunt, as the democratic chairman threatened to hold the attorney general in contempt of congress. >> we will have no choice but to move quickly to hold the attorney general in contempt if he stalls or fails to negotiate in good faith. the very system of government of the united states, the system of limited power, the system of not having a president as a dictator, is very much at stake. speak of the reason bill barr is

not here today is because the democrats decided they didn't want him here today. instead, we go back to a circus political stunt. to say we want it to look like an impeachment hearing. because they won't bring impeachment proceedings. >> melissa: after the democratic chairman ended the hearing, democratic congressman steve cohen posed for pictures in front of the attorney general's empty chair. he put a prop chicken on the desk where the attorney general was expected to six. in the meantime, in a phone interview yesterday with trish regan, president trump blessed senate democrats for the treatment of barr while praising the attorney general for how he handled some four hours of often contentious testimony in the senate yesterday. >> i guess they want to treat him differently than they have everybody else. for many, many years, they've never done it this way. bringing in outside counsel or something. that's not the way -- you know,

you would like people, they are supposed to be able to do their own talking. but he did a fantastic job today. i'm told, i got see some of it. he did a fantastic job. it's all a big hoax, this whole thing with russia. turns out there is no collision, there is no obstruction. >> melissa: andy, the ranking republican on that committee we saw earlier, doug collins, making the assertion that the only time somebody like the ag has been questioned by a staff member instead of by congressman in that counsel before was during watergate. is that true, to your knowledge? >> andy: i thought i heard him say that in that committee, that particular committee, the judiciary committee. that it had never happened and that it did happen in connection with watergate, with the special committees that they set up for impeachment hearings. >> melissa: if that's the case, does that make this is an outrageous request? or is it that they know they know he is smart and a fantastic attorney and they are not up to asking the questions?

>> andy: all of this is a sheer theater. >> melissa: no! [sarcastically] >> andy: even more than normal washington theater. barr, this was not an appearance on the subpoena. all this talk about, "he may be held in contempt any minute now," they are not close to holding him in contempt. he can't be in contempt until he has flouted some kind of legal process. what happen here is he wasn't even asked to come. he volunteered to come to the senate and the house on two consecutive days. when you are a volunteer as opposed to being summoned by compulsion, you can negotiate the terms of your appearance. >> melissa: what would it mean if he were held in contempt? how do you define that, what is the punishment? >> andy: eric holder was held in contempt in connection with the fast and furious investigation that the house was conducting. i think other than the fact that his legacy was he was held in

contempt, it had no consequence. i think that is what this would be, too. but i don't think it will get to that point. barr was in the position because it was a voluntary appearance to say no. if they subpoena him, and those are the conditions under which they want to proceed, i think it will be a much more momentous thing for him to say no. i doubt he will. >> melissa: harris, the point is they want to view the mueller report -- which the leaders of this committee can go do in a scif anyway. >> harris: they can. the grand jury testimony will not be included in that. andy, you and i have talked about, really, how much more he would learn with fever redactions anyway. what we know about that, reported on the letter between mueller and barr about how maybe mueller didn't like the way the media were reporting that 4-page letter originally from william barr, it's such a big deal. my problem with all of that, my

question is, how much more can we learn that whatever change the outcome? i didn't hear robert mueller say that. we'll have the letter. my goodness, it's everywhere. it's a meme, for goodness sake. you can read it yourself and it doesn't say that. here's my question -- there are 53 senators with law degrees. it doesn't mean they are all practicing. that's a lot of people. you get into the house and it's north of 36, 37%. they hold law degrees. these are some pretty capable folks already, legally. i'm wondering why you need to go outside that circle for the house panel or committee, rathe. these people ought to be able to depose just about anybody. >> andy: look, they don't need it. they are the primary branch, and we always talk about coequal branches. congress is the primary branch of government. if they want to organize themselves in a way that they want to conduct a hearing and have counsel for both sides, they get to do that. then, if the attorney general at

that point says, "i'm not coming," it is more momentous. but i think this is all a show. i go back to the point you just raised, about how much more information we would get. 95% of this report is unredacte unredacted. the only thing that is unavailable to the leadership of congress is the grand jury material, which -- the grand jury restriction is statutory, which means congress could change it itself, number one. >> harris: they could change -- nadler could change that himself. why do you think they haven't done that? >> andy: they don't care about this. they want to create the impression that a cover-up is going on. >> dagen: i want to add to this because it's directly related to what he was just talking about. "wall street journal" editorial, published last night, about 7:00. "bill barr has made nearly all of the redactions in the report available to senior members of congress to inspect at the justice department.

as of this writing, only three members have bothered to show up. senate judiciary chairman lindsey graham, senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, and house republicans on judiciary, doug collins." not one democrat. howling about his lack of transparency has examined the outrages they claim. >> melissa: i want to get marie in here. let's listen to nancy pelosi's reaction to today. marie, you respond to that. go ahead. >> he lied to congress. he lied to congress. everybody else did that, it would be considered a crime crime. >> melissa: you can see on the bottom of your screen there, the doj responded to that saying it's a baseless attack on the attorney general. it's reckless, irresponsible, and false. >> marie: judge napolitano said yesterday that certainly he was disingenuous and some of his answers. that's one of the reasons you have followed hearings, because you want to ask william barr how he came to the conclusion that there was no obstruction pair there more things to ask him.

i want to remind you, the republicans on the senate side brought in outside counsel to question brett kavanaugh and christine blasey ford. >> melissa: that was the senate side, i think they were making a point about the house. >> marie: but is not this unprecedented crazy thing that the judiciary committee would bring them counsel to question a witness. i do think barr will be subpoenaed. i think that will be a bigger deal if he refuses to show up. but there are more questions we need to ask barr about why he made the decision not to bring charges on obstruction, and the person i think we really need to hear from is bob mueller. because barr yesterday -- >> melissa: i agree with you on that. >> marie: he went very far in saying what he thought mueller meant, what he thought mueller was saying in a phone call. answering so many of those questions would be easier if bob mueller would come testify. >> harris: do you think democrats will invite him? >> marie: democrats are definitely going to invite him. >> harris: that's the right word, right? if you are not subpoenaed -- >> dagen: but how are they going to handle it if bob miller is sitting in front of them

questioned because the democrats treated this whole collision narrative, which was made up, connecting these random anecdotes. but mueller comes out and says there is no conspiracy, there was no cooperation with russia by the trump campaign. this was supposed to be the democrats' bullet train to impeachment and it never showed up in the station. so what are they going to do? how will they have a bald failure i think what they will do is they will have a much smaller target. the republicans on the committee -- first of all, to go back to marie's point, i think he is coming. i think he has already been -- mueller has been invited to come. i don't know why i think may 15th, but it's something like that. he is coming. the question of whether he will be at the senate and the house is a question, but he's coming to the house, for sure. i think the republicans will do what you just described , dagen. they will ask all the questions and point out that collusion, which was the driving force of this, turned out to be an empty bed. what they are going to do is

have a very narrow target on obstruction. in particular, to try and narrow it further still, to witness tampering. i think what they are mainly honed in on is the white house counsel stuff. this does two things for them. first, that particular transaction is the most uncomfortable thing for the trump administration to deal with. secondly, it raises the stakes if the president exercises executive privilege to prevent mcgahn from coming to testify to the house. if i was running on the democratic side, i think that's what -- >> dagen: not exercised in the report, but on a later date. >> melissa: right. stay tuned. we will see for that. cook county state attorney kim foxx heading to court today amid calls for a special prosecutor to examine the way her office handled the controversial jussie smollett

case. the initially supported an investigation of her that she tune. after testimony yesterday, senate republicans raising concerns about the origins of the russia investigation. what barr's testimony suggests about how far he's willing to go to look into it. >> do you share my concerns about the fisa warrant process? >> yes. >> do you share my concerns about the counter intelligence investigation, why it was open and how it was open? >> yes. ♪ is that net carbs or total?...

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to raise questions about the origins of the russia probe. here's committee chairman lindsey graham. >> the mueller report has put to bed and it soon will be. this committee is going to look long and hard at how this all started. we are going to look at the fisa warrant process. did russia provide christopher steele the information about trump that turned out to be garbage that was used to get a warrant on an american citizen? if so, how did the system fail? >> harris: and the attorney general provided new insight into the potential reach of his investigation into the counterintelligence probe of trump campaign. >> the extent that there was any overreach, i think it was a few people in the upper echelons of the bureau. perhaps the departments. those people are no longer there, and i am working closely with christopher wray, i think has done a superb job of the

bureau. we are working together on trying to reconstruct exactly what went down. >> harris: here is what also came up. anti-trump bias at the fbi. missouri senator josh hawley zeroed in on that, citing text messages by former fbi official peter strzok. >> you want to know what's really going on here? you want to know why the counterintelligence investigation really happened? because an unelected bureaucrat, an unelected official in this government who clearly has open disdain if not outright hatred for trump voters -- like the people of my state, for instance -- "i could smell the trump support?" then try to overturn the result of a democratic election. that's what really went on. >> harris: does it get tricky for democrats if william barr does this? he says he vows to reconstruct the origins of the russia probe. >> andy: it gets tricky in the sense that they are going to have to deal with it. he is committed to doing this, and it's going to be

investigated. with all of the discussion about the exchange of letters and all that stuff, a friend of mine said that complaining about barr's letter at this point is like complaining about the trailer three weeks after the movie is out. [laughter] >> melissa: that's a good analogy. >> andy: the real news in this hearing yesterday should have been a couple of things about the potential or the ongoing investigation of the investigators. one thing that barr said was, "looking carefully about whether steele dossier is russian disinformation." he indicated that there is already at least some -- i'm not saying it's established, but they have reason to believe -- it is colorable to believe that might be the case. i think that's important. the other thing he said that was important that he has clearly honed in on his esi -- i think this is a quote -- "i can't fathom why they didn't do a defensive briefing." what he means by this is

ordinary circumstances, if you thought you had two or three bad apples in a campaign, or one, or whatever, and it's in the orbit of the campaign, what you would do is have the fbi reach out to somebody in the campaign you could trust. barr pointed out there were three former u.s. attorney's and trump campaign. sessions, giuliani, and chris christie. you approach them and say, "i think you have a problem with this person." but they didn't do that. the answer decided to do a full-blown -- >> harris: what you make of it, though, that when we find out in 2016 they did do that sort of basic, "hey, this is what happens when foreign governments come against you." that actually did happen. >> andy: it didn't happen. >> marie: it's a multiple reporting but he did. >> harris: we have a memo saying that it did but we don't know the details. >> andy: here's what happened. but a shot in the dark, i happen to be in trump tower the day the president went to get his intelligence briefing. >> harris: you are a bear? >> andy: yes, i was not at the

intelligence briefing, i was at a meeting that event-candidate trump had with a bunch of so-called national security experts about radical islam and immigration policy and the like. >> melissa: i remember that. >> andy: that was the day he was going for his first intelligence briefing down at the fbi's headquarters in lower manhattan. that is a standard briefing -- >> harris: that's what i'm asking. >> andy: for people running for president. it's not a defensive briefing that you give to the campaign to say, "your campaign may have a problem." they talked about doing that in march, and the elected not to do it. >> harris: my question was more basic, that was something you are looking for as an add-on, separate. it's very interesting you are at the tower. we never knew that. >> andy: yeah, see? who knows what you will get at me by the end of this. [laughter] pt when you talk about the fact that you think the steele dossier, they are investigating whether it was russian disinformation -- if it turns out it is, does that mean that

bruce and nellie ohr cooperated with the russians? does that mean christopher steele cooperate with the russians? doesn't mean they had no idea? what are the implications of that of its russian disinformation? >> andy: i think the biggest application -- i think people were unwitting here, if it turns out that is what happened. the big question will be -- and this really hits me at home, because this goes back to the fisa procedures back in the '90s when we were working terrorism cases -- how do you invoke counterintelligence without going out an corroborating information that you give to the fisa court? it's not enough to tell the fisa court, "we think christopher steele is a great guy." you have to be able to say, "the people we are asking the court to rely on for the probable cause findings, the sources who are anonymous and hearsay, they have to have some reason to tell the court you can rely on these people. >> dagen: how do you not know that the clinton campaign paid for that dossier?

which come to this day, jim comey still says he didn't know. that he found out through the media. >> melissa: why was my question about bruce and nellie ohr nellie ohr funny customer he laughed when i said it. >> marie: i think that's a conspiracy theory. the intelligence community said publicly, they confirmed two other methods parts of the steele dossier. of the most headline grabbing parts, but some of it. everything is, at that briefing -- >> melissa: so you don't think it was russian disinformation? >> marie: i don't know if it was but we shouldn't treat it like it some conspiracy theory here. >> melissa: i don't know what was doing that, we weren't -- >> marie: the fbi told the trump campaign as part of this briefing, if a foreign government or people associated with it reaches out to you, your first call is the fbi. they told them that. >> andy: in august. >> marie: in the summer. >> andy: if you look at the report, in march -- >> marie: so why didn't the trump campaign say, "these russians reached out to us at offered to help?" >> harris: the memo we have goes right along with what you

are saying. now that we have the edification of knowing there was a basic review, per your being targeted, that's also helpful. two things can both be true. they've got a briefing, and it was in august. and you say? >> andy: and i say they didn't get one in march when attorney general lynch met with comey and mccabe. and i said, "should we go in and worn these guys?" >> marie: so when i guessed they should've said when they got the briefing, "these russians reached out to us." they told them, russians were repeatedly reaching out to them, and they didn't tell the affair. >> dagen: the behavior suggest something nefarious was going on. >> andy: i don't think i understand. which russians? >> marie: when the trump tower meeting had already happened. at that point, when the fbi says they may be reaching out to you, you should report it to the fbi if they do. why didn't they say to the fbi at that point, "well, there was this weird meeting in june paid nothing came of it. they offered to on hilary." why did they report?

>> andy: they should have. but they should have been told that without having the fbi tell them they should have reported it. >> marie: i agree with that. >> andy: anyone who looks at the term terror meeting tends to say it was a really dumb thing to take that meeting. that has been clear for a long time. but the question here is about the official activity, as well. they considered back in march, giving a defensive briefing. i think they opted not to do it because they weren't worried about two or three bad apples. they had convinced themselves that trump was the -- >> dagen: andy, just to speak quickly, to the fact this investigation was run out of washington. would normally be farmed out to say the southern district of new york? number one. i'm asking him. why wasn't jim comey briefing the gang of eight? >> andy: he should have briefed the gang of eight. his reason for not doing it doesn't make any sense. to say it was too sensitive. that's the reason he had the

gang of eight. yes, headquarters has more involvement in counterintelligence than a dozen other things, but they would have investigated at the district level where the level of wear, like, the task forces are. the thing that happen here that broke down is at headquarters are investigation. >> harris: interesting. >> andy: that's not the way things are run. >> harris: this brings me to my next question. this is a basic question but it's on behalf of the american people. this is how you look at the prism. could happen to somebody i know? was the trump campaign treated differently and maybe not as well as it should have been, based on what we know now in terms of briefings, based on the things that deacon is asking about? were there some things that could have been circumvented had they been treated like every campaign? i don't know. legally, how do you see? >> andy: the way i see it structurally as well as legally is the fbi and the justice department generally want to investigate things where either the crime or the threat occurred

so that headquarters can play its traditional and very necessary role of adult leadership. because i can tell you, everyone who runs an investigation pushes the envelope on it because you get convinced that your bad guys are the worst bad guys in the history of bad guys. and you need headquarters there to say, "no, we don't go to the fisa court for things we didn't cooperate." what you need them to be that voice if they take charge of the annunciation, there is nobody there to tell them no. >> harris: andy mccarthy. what we learned about you in an hour pay [laughter] fascinating. well, that didn't take long. for the 2020 democrats to pounce on that william barr's senate testimony. some are even calling for the ag to resign. how much of this -- well, you know, its presidential political season leading into 2020. is it all about that?

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♪ >> melissa: reaction to attorney general william barr's senate testimony has been swift among 2020 democrats, many demanding that he stepped down. some even calling for his impeachment. here is former vice president joe biden. >> mr. vice president, should barr resign? >> reporter: mr. biden, should ag barr resigned? >> i think he's lost the confidence of the american people. i think you should. >> melissa: some 2020 contenders got to question the ag directly yesterday, including senator kamala harris. a former prosecutor, who pressed barr over his handling of the mueller report and whether he had looked at all of the underlying evidence.

>> did you personally review all of the underlying evidence? >> no, we took -- we accepted -- >> did mr. rosenstein? >> no commonly accepted the statements in the report as factual record. >> i think it's clear that he has -- we can move on. i think it's clear, sir, that you have not looked at the evidence and we can move on. vt meantime, the president speaking to fbn's trish regan, unloading on the 2020 dems who question to barr i hearing. >> harris: don't ask because you have bill barr, highly respected, great attorney general, and he's got to take the abuse from people that are running for office. they don't care about this. they are just looking for political points. i really think that the american people see through his -- >> melissa: just this hour, eric swalwell, also 2020 candidate, and calling for congress to impeach ag barr. i'm going to start with you, mary. you didn't get to talk a lot

before. is that a smart move question much of the move to impeach attorney general barr >> marie: what they should do first is subpoena him and have him come testify bar the mouse down mike to mike before the house if he doesn't come of it feels like a different moment i think we should also take steps to get -- so, barr was asked before the hearing by senator blumenthal if he had made a record of the call with mueller where mueller complained about the four page summary. hebert he said, "yes, i did." they asked if they could have and he said no. if he is still refusing to come testify and to give documents over to congress, that is a different ball game and we should seriously think about that question. absolutely. but we should get him before congress. >> andy: i said they should have impeached holder when he stonewalled congress in connection with the fast and furious. if they can make a record that there is stuff they are entitled to, that they've been blocked, i don't know how they will make it here because we are dealing

with -- that this attorney general is a 448-page report, as we said before, and 95% of it. he didn't need to put it, out of it. blue hard though might have a hard time making a record when he's stonewalling. if he doesn't turn it over -- >> melissa: what if he doesn't turn over those contemporaneous telephone notes? >> andy: we will see what he turns over and what he won't turn over if they give him a subpoena. there's a lot of talk today about, "i'm not coming." what did they say in that movie customer gets very clarifying [laughter] >> harris: i just go back to eve and i were talking about and live coverage during one of the bricks yesterday. that was was the fact that william barr really could school everybody else on how to do this. that was his job. and what kind of advantage that gives in. i think it's a lot for them to troll out a chicken today. i'm serious. not a live chicken, i think it

was plastic. whatever it was, they called william barr chicken for not showing up in all that sort of really icky theater. it was just bizarre. the head of what this man who sat for hours might do post this date. he said he didn't want to talk to all the staff attorneys. it doesn't mean he will come back to the hill. we don't know what will happen or what he will bring back. in front of those subpoenas, they haven't happened yet. it just seems a little early for all this theater for a man who really does get it, andy, in terms of what it ought to look like. >> andy: harris, it's not early for it if you believe as i believe that they don't really want it. >> harris: o. >> andy: i think they want the issue. they have immense information about the mueller report. >> harris: we all do. >> andy: the thing is, it's not going to get any better. >> melissa: can i get you some current breaking news on this? and dagen i will get a reaction. the president is tweeting. "steve moore, a great economist, a truly fine person, has decided to withdraw from the process. he won the battle of ideas including tax cuts, and

deregulation, which have improved noninflation and prosperity for all americans. ask steve to work with me forward done mike toward future economic growth in our country. ." what is direction to that? >> dagen: not surprising, because of the volume of things that steve had said and written. there was a lot written, where he was joking about, "can't a man go to a college basketball game?" and women are there. i've been running for years and years. certainly a lot of people from "the wall street journal" editorial page, even jeremy siegel got behind steve for his nomination and said the federal reserve board -- because he was a different thinker. because he doesn't come out of academic circles. what he has written on the things he said, whether they were in jest, just landed flat. i think that the volume, both in the mass and the loudness of

what he had written and he had said, it got to the point that it just wasn't -- it was a no-go for him. the other thing i will add to, president trump could have nominated somebody like steve moore and said, "i want to change the makeup. i want them to put fingers the federal reserve board." but because he had lambasted jay powell and the fed so much about their monetary policy, last year, maybe he was right. they need to stop raising interest rates. but talking about needing to cut, he has set himself up that he is not going to be able to put anybody on the board who is a different thinker, because it looks like eastern depoliticize the fed. >> harris: the senator had said earlier -- and it was looking like they wouldn't get the senate vote -- though the president's choice for the fed board is "in trouble." so you say that this isn't a huge shocker, but you have senator thune and others say it's in trouble in the sense

that the confirmation votes are there. that's outside even of it, perhaps, hope some of the things of the president had expressed about changes he wanted in the fed. >> melissa: i agree with everything dagen had to say i think it would be great to have somebody on the fed wasn't just pure academia. that's one of those problems, the way you look at economics from an academic point of view versus being out in the economy and practicing. the different perspective of not being wedded to the ivory tower when you're making these decisions. >> andy: i've got a guy in the bronx. [laughter] >> dagen: "i know a guy!" [laughter] >> melissa: i think we leave it there. yes? there you go. albright. new court action in the jussie smollett case. cook county state attorney kim foxx is on defense today, making her case on the defense, i should say. making her case there is no need for the special prosecutor to

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>> harris: leader of the republicans in the house, kevin mccarthy, no speaking. we've heard from the speaker on nancy pelosi, and now the minority leader. let's watch. >> no collusion. i believe there it's time for our country to move forward. i note that democrats did not like the outcome of the last election. they did not like the outcome of 22 months of investigation, and they didn't like the answer. this country believes we need to move forward. attorney general barr has been very transparent, brought forward the information. i think it's time to stop wasting this majority and actually get something done for the american public. let me open up there for questions. which any of you may have. yes, ma'am? [indistinct question]

we've gotten -- i don't need to. we've gotten all the information. i mean, think of the volumes and all the questions prior, wanting to make sure what the democrats were asking, "could we see the mueller report?" 90% of volume one is all open to the public. 98% of the second volume. if you look and listen to the american public, and not just my district, go to those who are running for president. go to the democrats who are out there. go to the democrats in congress having their town halls. they are not getting questions about mueller. yes, they are getting questions about health care, medicare for all. about infrastructure and others. should they focus on with the american public expects and with the american public wants? yes, sir? reported back president trump reportedly has agreed, and senator schumer spent $2 trillion and if the

structure. do you support spending $2 trillion given that the projected budget deficit -- >> i support working on it for structure bill. it's concerning to me, especially with the amount of debt we have. there are bipartisan ideas out there for you should start. one is the gain act. this is a piece of legislation that is supported by the freedom caucus and on the democratic side the black caucus supports it as well. this is one that looks at excess government property. to sell that. and he was on infrastructure. it would focus on the 100 districts in this country. i think that's a very good start of where we could begin. i disagree with the democrats thinking they should raise taxes to pay for infrastructure. before they went to see the president, they said they would have to change the current tax code. they would raise the -- >> harris: we are watching minority leader kevin mccarthy right now. when we saw speaker pelosi

earlier, her comments were predominantly about william barr and pressing for more information there. mccarthy, however, sticking questions. you can hear that one come about infrastructure. the place we thought we would see some bipartisan agreement. marie, we are watching this, and the $2 trillion that nancy pelosi and chuck schumer came out of the white house this week saying, "hey, we're getting getting closer to something bipartisan on infrastructure." is that even possible? you're hearing mccarthy say democrats want to raise taxes. they want to go about this differently to get to that cash. >> marie: well, republicans -- when they controlled the house -- passed a huge spending bill and cut taxes. which has also led to the financial situation we are in in this country today. his interest income people don't like spending when they are in power and they like it when they are empowered. >> harris: i think they are like spending. >> marie: maybe they'll just like it. i would love to get infrastructure bill.

i think there's a chance it could get done. >> harris: dagen, you are nodding. my only 5% question like everybody wants it, i thought. >> dagen: i think they can agree, particularly president trump. he does love borrowing money. they would just borrow money. right? with the interest rate still relatively low. i want to point out, when you talk about raising taxes to pay for infrastructure spending, we are talking about raising the federal gas tax. which hasn't gone up in more than a quarter of a century. it has failed to fund the highway fund, it has failed to cover, because of inflation. we basically are more fuel efficient as as a nation. it doesn't pay for it, make the drivers pay for it. >> harris: the minority leader now talking about william barr per let's watch. >> to speak to every member, they move to change the rules. even cnn cannot find any history of that happening before.

the only time in individual, a staffer, question somebody was during watergate. nadler has been wanting to impeach since the day after the election. he can't have the facts to prove where he should, but he will not stop. this is what the american public is frustrated by. the politics of attacking individuals. when you look at the democratic party, they now want to weaponize the irs. they want to go after -- continue to go after the president, and after his family. this has got to stop. the american public wants us to move forward and solve the problems. yes? >> reporter: do you think speaker pelosi should bring it to the floor? >> i believe that the police should bring to the floor. one of the major questions the democrats asked before it would come to the floor is that mexico asking of a country to change their own laws, their labor laws.

senate in mexico just did that. i think it's appropriate that they keep their word when they said that's why they would bring it forward. this is a win-win for all. i believe that he would have a large number of votes from the republicans. in the democrats would only need a few to bring it across, and we could sign this and actually create even more jobs than we have already created in just the last three years. yes, sir? >> reporter: the negotiations, is there any progress? >> we've had two negotiations. meetings, i would say. no solution yet. ongoing. >> reporter: are you optimistic? >> um... i don't see a solution at this time. >> harris: all right. i was waiting for an answer there. >> melissa: i wanted to know if he was optimistic or not! >> harris: we are monitoring the news for this.

this is happening alive, obviously, on capitol hill. we heard from the house speaker and other minority leader, kevin mccarthy, talking about infrastructure. and william barr, and a whole host of things. we will continue to monitor that as he makes news on the hill. we want to get to this. trump impersonator alec baldwin is actually going after the president, saying he fooled "flyover americans." is he helping or hurting the liberal because with such talk? the debate on the couch, next. >> everybody that has a job, this has changed them. except trump. he is the only man in american history that the presidency of the united states has had no effect whatsoever. ♪ you this brita. dad... i just got a zerowater. but we've always used brita. it's two stage-filter... doesn't compare to zerowater's 5-stage. this meter shows how much stuff, or dissolved solids, gets left behind. our tap water is 220.

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>> dagen: after an trump impersonator alec baldwin blasting the president for apparently not changing after he entered office. telling pbs's christiane amanpour, that trump is "the only man in american history that the presidency of the united states has had no effect on." and then baldwin had this to say about trump voters. >> if you are a new yorker, you're onto trump. he's not the host of "the apprentice," who has fooled all these flyover americans that

he is this correct businessman. we kind of know that he is something else. when i say "flyover americans," that's a show business term in terms of demographics. i don't mean that with any -- with any pejorative sense. i live in a world where nobody watches "the apprentice." [laughter] >> dagen: he was talking to walter isaac, by the way, on the show. it who is the alec baldwin whisper? i just want him -- again, look me in the eye and call me a hayseed. call me a redneck. call me a hillbilly. call me trash. but see what you mean. don't qualify it. >> melissa: it speaks to this whole thing that really got president trump elected, this idea that there are these group of liberals who really believe they are smarter and better than everybody else. and kind of look down on the rest of the population. if you don't agree with them, you are dumb. you are not educated. you are not refined.

in terms of president trump and new yorkers, of what people knew about them, if you're in business and finance you know that his skill is marketing. when he was doing straight up real estate, he went bankrupt. when he realized that, rather than owning the assets, you put your name on things and you market, he became very successful. that's what the television show was about. democrats in all these people who pooh-pooh him underestimated how all that marketing talent would translate to politics. as far as not changing, i think that's absolutely true. marie was shaking her head yes as well. he hasn't been changed by the presidency and that's what his base loves. they stayed true to who he is and what he promised he would do. >> dagen: i will make this personal, somebody who used to work here and doesn't work anymore look dull might look to me in the face then said, "can you tone down the alley may clampett bit?" i'm used to this attitude from snooty new yorkers who work in the arts.

if you ever have to encounter them at a party or at an event come with better deal you. they look over your head, looking for a better deal. if you talk like i do, you are a nobody. trump figure that out. space if you are looking at me because the you know i'm the only one who ever watched "the beverly hillbillies." >> dagen: exactly pray [laughter] >> marie: i spent the last few days in the midwest. missouri, indiana, and ohio. there are people who believe that trump sold him a bunch of goods are in the election and hasn't followed through. alec weldon is not the right messenger, but the message that trump promised things to people where i'm from and hasn't delivered, that's the message. the >> dagen: i've got a whole list of stuff he did and promised, promises that were fulfilled. more "outnumbered" in a moment. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely.

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>> melissa: people do it again soon. we are back here on the couch at noon eastern tomorrow. now, here's harris. >> harris: we begin with this fox news alert. plenty of fireworks and finger-pointing on capitol hill after the attorney general refused to testify before a democrat-led panel today. this is "outnumbered overtime," i'm harris faulkner. for a hearing that lasted just a few minutes, really, it packed a powerful punch. plenty of drama. when house judiciary chairman jerry nadler held a hearing with an empty seat for ag william barr after barr decided not to show. the main sticking point, the attorney general took issue with nadler's decision to have committee lawyers question end. the panel's ranking republican calling today's proceedings a political stunt, as the democratic chair defended the format. watch. >> given the attorney general's lack of candor before other congressional committees, i believe my colleagues and i were right to insist on