thank you for joining us. please join us next sunday for "the next revolution". mark: i am mark levin "life, liberty & levin" we have sally pipes. how are you quick. >> nice to be on with you. mark: i want you on here as a health care expert, a true expert. the role of government, the private sector, it's time to get to the bottom of this. things thrown out with health care for all universal health care single-payer health care

medicare for all, medicare is going broke. medicaid is consuming the state budgets so let's start to get to the bottom of this because of all the other things going on in this country, this is also it involves our health and physical health as a nation. sally you are president ceo of the pacific institute to research center a fantastic organization and written a lot and you still write a lot on the subject of health care. starting from the beginnin beginning, what is single-payer health care quick. >> that is a very important point because a lot of people have no idea what it means it means the government is the only provider of health care. all private coverage, private insurance is all band under a single-payer system and the government provides what is considered medically necessary for the population.

mark: all private health care goes away. all employer health care goes away. . >> right. right. mark: than the government takes over health care. >> only two other organizations one is the veterans administration the second is the indian health services but medicare, medicaid, everything is rolled into one government program and as kamala harris has said let's get rid of private insurance and all of that and how the government be in charge. mark: with the government in charge we don't know what that means we don't know if the department would handle it or who would handle that or how they would make decisions. how we as patients would even get our health care. and we have to contact the government in advance? will it put us on a rationing program? how do we see specialist? had we get our medicine?

we can go to the grocery store or cvs. we have no idea. >> i do because i am a former canadian but with the canadian system which is completely outlaw any private coverage for anything medically necessary the british national health service 90 percent join the program which is turning 71 but it means the american people book an appointment with a doctor, the doctors will be paid about 40 percent below what they are paid today. mark: stop right there. we already have a shortage of doctors. it is predicted, and my right this is even worse quick. >> absolutely ama is predicted by 2030 there will be a shortage in this country of 126,000 doctors. not only that the best and brightest always come into

medicine if they think they will be civil service service to be 40 percent below will they go into medicine? this is a very important point. under government controlled program government decides how much they will pay for health care. when people think is free they will demand a lot more of it. they have to go to a waiting list and they have to ration care and the elderly will be the most harmed. mark: break this down. basically intervention there are more radical plans out there so then that has a negative effect on the population of doctors and people don't understand it is a lot of work. it is very expensive. a lot of schooling. and these kids are studying day and night. i have seen in my own family. now you tell them they're

basically working for the government directly or indirectly and we will cap your income and control your life. you will earn 40 percent less so now you have a diminished number of doctors and a greater impact from the health care system because people say it is free. i hurt my toe. and it will clog the system. >> absolutely. under senator sanders plan , his plan is even more comprehensive and canadian he once free dental and free long-term care. they don't even have that in canada. his plan has been estimated at $32 trillion over ten years. no government program ever turns out to cost what it is predicted remember lyndon johnson medicare/medicaid? it came in a 3 billion the first year it was predicted

12 billion it cost 110 billion. even at three.2 trillion per year currently spending up for 31 --dash three.five and now governments will have to cut back and control the rate waiting list taxes have to be increased and then the doctor shortage as well. mark: you were born in cottage on - - canada what happened to your mother quick. >> she was a senior and felt she may have colon cancer. bernie sanders says you don't need a referral to go to a specialist but like the uk and canada you have to so she went to the general practitioner and said i think i have colon cancer nothing showed up in

the x-ray i said they don't detect it with an x-ray you need a colonoscopy. she wanted me to call back and he said as a senior we have too many younger people on the waiting list to get a colonoscopy people are waiting between eight months and one year. she did not get it in six months later she was hemorrhaging. she went to the hospital in an ambulance to days inn emergency room. two days waiting to get a bed. she got the colonoscopy that passed away two weeks later with metastasize colon cancer that is rationing of care. it is very sad and the same thing will happen in the united states for go look at the number of people that complain about the veterans administration with their long waiting times and they were dying on gurneys. the veterans ministration is a example of a micro level of what the government totally took over the health care system.

mark: that is horrible what happened to your mother. you said she was a senior. she was not prioritized. >> absolutely not. mark: if you are younger you are under certain circumstances. so now the government makes decisions about life and death not even about their own lives sorry you cannot get it because only the government approves it but you are elderly. so what? with younger people who are waiting see you have to wait. if you leave the country to get care somewhere else where you are stuck. >> absolutely. today in canada 200,000 canadians with 37 million people 200,000 go abroad every year to pay out-of-pocket for the mri machine for a new hip or shoulder because the waiting time is too long.

it is 11 percent of gdp in canada see you have a waiting list it's much greater than what government is willing to supply. mark: so let's talk about gdp 11 percent in canada so they arbitrarily decide that is the amount of money they will spend the equivalent of 11 percent on health care. in the united states it's what quick. >> just over 18 percent bernie sanders and others say we spend too much on health care as opposed to what? a cake? or cars? spend what you need to spend. here is my question. health care is a big industry. technology, buildings, personne

everything associated with it so it is a very important part of our economy. >> exactly. mark: so we spent 18 percent so we should spend less? you spend what you spend. one of the pressures on the increase spending on health care was the government quick. >> exactly 50 percent is in the hands of government already the free-market health care system people are dying in the street. 50 percent is in medicare the program for seniors and medicaid for low income people and the chip program we have a lot of government in our health care system whether at the national level or the state level has tremendous a number of mandates on insurance companies and what they have to provide which adds to the cost. looking at 18 percent i hope you're not becoming one of those inpatient americans this

is the most wealthy country in the world if they want an mri they want it tomorrow or next week they don't want to wait 11 weeks on average like a canadian to get the mri and that's why they leave the country. mark: i bet the bureaucracy in canada count on a certain percentage of the population getting health care somewhere else. >> exactly. one of my friends as an orthopedic surgeon funds a private surgery center it is illegal to have private coverage but they each run each health care system to provide funding then they raise taxes but he was in a lawsuit being sued by the bc supreme court and government for three years because what he is doing is illegal he is treating 60000 patients per year some of them are

politicians who don't want private funding but they use the system or using his program. so here he is they are trying to starve him a funding to support their case. if he treat 60000 people and they pay for it pc will medical will pay part but that takes pressure off the system of people having to wait. mark: when we come back the government centric system is not the well for the individual it is not individuals making decisions about their own lives. are making decisions about their elderly parents. so in addition to a financial disaster it is a human disaster. ladies and gentlemen,, don't forget most week nights you can watch me on levintv. go to blazetv/mark or call 844-levin-tv hey!

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mark: sally i want to talk about the inhumanity of government run health care. the inhumanity of government run health care you can see a doctor when you want to see a doctor, you can see the doctor you want to see, you have rationing, waiting lines, do you think the media are doing an adequate job explaining exactly what we mean when we talk about medicare for all and single-payer and everybody should have free health care quick. >> the mainstream media is very bad because they are not telling the truth and for americans don't know what it means for them and their health and their long-term survival. look in canada 2018 the average wait to see a primary care doctor and then the specialist is 19.eight weeks that's almost five months in

1983 it was only nine.three weeks and is not free the canadians pay on average $13000 a year for health care that they have to wait and it is rationed just like other elderly people so the and you can get an appointment whenever. >> i think he is lying because he is so committed to the concept of government entitlement and his view the government is the best provider of everything. mark: so is his proposal the most inhumane proposal quick. >> absolutely. he's not telling the truth to the american people or how much the program will cost i hate to say this nancy pelosi

the democratic speaker for the medicare for all plan did an interview with rolling stone said $50 trillion how do we pay for that? even she understands it would kill the taxpayer with huge tax increases, new taxes with bernie's plan with the new tax of 7 percent the estate tax of 77 percent a new tax on large financial institutions. mark: this would impoverish the country. >> it would. >> and be a massive redistribution from the individual the private secto sector, politicians and bureaucrats and government. >> if you look at the house member from washington state who also has a single player - - single-payer plan is even more comprehensive she wants

to take over the health care system in two years by bernie's is over four years that she said in the mainstream media after this report came out that 1 million people in the insurance industry would lose their jobs. what does that mean for the government? they have to hire millions of people to process claims so all of these things would be a disaster. i think pretty much everyone hates going to the dmv which is a single government monopoly program is that what people want for their health care? even the post office today has competition. it got a little bit better because they have fedex and dhl and ups if i want to get somewhere on time i use one of those services. but now it's like the dmv. mark: are there people running to canada for health care

quick. >> absolutely not. mark: to people leave to the uk quick. >> look at mick jagger of the rolling stones when he was told he had to cancel because he had a heart problem it turned it out he need a valve replaced and was in florida at the time he got it done at new york presbyterian one of the best hospitals in the country his younger brother said thank goodness he didn't have to stand in line under the national health service. it does allow some private coverage but the treatment he could've got at new york presbyterian word far outweigh the coverage in the uk. mark: i'm not saying the majority but with the left propaganda would just destroy some of those greatest institutions ever developed by mankind and replace them with

abstractions and those utopian promises that we all know are impossible. >> right. when i found out he honeymooned in the former soviet union. that is odd. that he believes even when everything was stable in the eastern bloc he thinks that is the way our society should be run. several years ago hillary clinton said it takes a village and that his government whether hillary or bernie sanders for the mainstream media alexandria oak ozzie o-letter cortez. she loves single-payer things government should be the payer and said that v.a. is a great example and it ain't broken and we shouldn't fix it. but even democratic member of the house announced for massachusetts mister moulton came out and said i am a

member of the v.a. because i was in the military and it isn't a great quality system. but these people are just out there telling the american people that this should be the way they should be. look at the poles from kaiser 71 percent when you tell them you have to pay higher taxes and you lose private coverage. >> this is because the media regurgitates what they are told by the hard left. they don't take a close look we are told look at canada and the uk. we are the only advanced industrialized society that doesn't have this or that look at scandinavia. but their health care systems are a disaster for the people when you rent from national... it's kind of like playing your own version of best ball. because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if it's a better car class than the one you reserved.

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. >> live from america's news headquarters the white house has additional and military resources to send iran a message for go uss abraham lincoln carrier and a bomb task force are being sent to the us central command region in the middle east work on the trip administration recently has been intensifying on iran saying the us will no longer exempt any countries from sanctions if they continue to buy iranian oil. the stock market futures taking a tumble on sunday after china announced it is

canceling trade talks with the us. that announcement was in response to the tweet from the president on sunday threatening another mass of rounds on chinese goods. the hike will go into effect on friday impacting hundreds of billions of dollars of chinese goods. now back to life liberty and levin . mark: you tried the bernie's sanders experiment what happened to your mom quick. >> in vermont the single-payer bill in vermont that bernie sanders has been touting for years he signed in 2011 and it was supposed to come into effect shortly but it hadn't and in december 2014 he had to withdraw the bill because he said the people of vermont cannot afford the cost of the single-payer health care system in colorado there was

an amendment 69 on the ballot it went down 79 at 21 even the governor at the time was now in the race for the nomination urge the people of colorado not to vote for it. mark: a single-payer plan quick. >> it was in more than doubling the cost of the budget of colorado. in california the senate signed a single-payer bill they talked it out $400 billion per year. doubled the entire budget of the state of california the assembly leader pulled it and parked it and said we cannot afford this in the state of california. new york state has passed many times at the assembly level the new york health act now they have the governorship under cuomo and the senate and the assembly the new york health act is back on the books and added long-term care now. the former bill was going to

cost 130 billion per year this will bring it up at 160 billion per year. even others are saying we want our health care through our union and cuomo says he was to be in charge he doesn't want to sign it either. mark: over $22 trillion a fiscal operating debt over $250 trillion of unfunded liabilities from the economics perspective inspector testified a few years ago and the trustees of medicare saying and the trustees to say we're broken 18 years. there is no proposal for fixing medicare in fact, is the opposite. bernie sanders has medicare for all. so that will destroy medicare

to eliminate medicare the government would step in and all the people who have their paychecks all these years we know it really hasn't been that goes into a general fund but let's play along all that money is now gone. and we will replace it was something because a 29 -year-old from new york who is a democratic socialist has a plan? these are new not new plans they fail whenever they are tried. >> absolutely. senator sanders just recently has come out to say five years ago the whole idea for medicare for all was a fringe idea but now it's in the mainstream and we need to move forward. i have the people behind me.

the people behind him obviously don't realize what medicare for all would mean if you say we all paid huge taxes to pay for medicare tax we have so many seniors today their doctors won't take them because of the low reimbursement rate so they have to purchase supplemental plan so their doctor can get paid for the value of their service. we have 60 million people on medicare today and 10000 a day are added because the baby boom generation is turning 65. it will be a huge pressure on medicare is not working but yet bernie sanders and others want this for the whole of our country. america is the country of entrepreneurship. people like choices they don't want the government to be in charge. mark: this is inhumane because

they treat people like cattle and sheep. people will be categorized. new drugs are difficult to bring to market let alone available. senior citizens will be discriminated against and decisions like that have to be made. what the hell ever happened to obama care? i thought that fixed everything quick. >> remember when obama was a senator from illinois he was a promoter of single-payer as president and behind obama care the affordable care act he said he wasn't because the american people like their insurance which is 173 million have employer-sponsored insurance of course, he is in favor of single-payer his two ideas for the health care system under obama care was to wipe out all the uninsured right now there's 28 million still uninsured to lower the cost of health care and obama

care was a failure because premiums are too high the deductibles are too high finding out the exchange that they signed up for now they're not on the plan. when obama care came into law for anywhere between 11 and 13 million people he could have provided coverage for all of them. so people could not afford the average premium today on the exchange plan is $600 a month in the uninsured are not wiped out because 80 percent of that exchange are receiving subsidies from the federal government but the taxpayers are providing that funding. mark: the answer is when it fails more government and more

taxes. we will be right

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mark: sally in the united kingdom has a very old health care system. so would that be perfected by now? . >> it turned 71 this july. the average weight between diagnosis and getting cancer treatment should be 62 days. mark: now it is two months and there's nothing you can do. >> no unless you go abroad like to america. but 62 days?

there is time under legislation and ambulance has to take you into the emergency room within four hours of getting a call now they are thinking about getting rid of the four hour time. mark: you make a call they have a rule has to show up within four hours. >> at the hospital they cannot make it there are so many trying to pick up so many people there isn't enough supply. so today, 236,000 brits are waiting six months or more to get an appointment to get to a doctor and 36000 are waiting nine months or more with a shortage of 11000 doctors in the uk offering 25000 pounds to get british doctors to go back to the uk plus 46000 nursing shortage which if you

look at the nurses it is pushing for single-payer. . >> and then be paid very low wages. >> so the system they have in britain? nice is part of the national health service the national institute for health and clinical excellence it is not the truth. what it does is it figures out if you are 50 and you need a very expensive cancer drug they say the value of your life is $200,000 and the drug cost 100,000 then you can get the drug but if you are 65 and retired and they say the value of your life is 50000 and you need that drug at 100,000 you cannot get it because the

actuary says you are not worth it. mark: let me get this straight. the government essentially puts a value on life a financial value in the older you are, the sicker you are, less the value of your life so the more you need health care, less like you we you are to get it. >> exactly that is how they cut the cost. >> that is a ration care and cut the cost of the national health service which is in the mainstream media every day for the long rate waits ration care. mark: so let me be clear. so they have their matrix model they make a decision and a cutting-edge drug that could improve the quality of your lif life, you're 71 years old. but we can only spend this much sorry too bad. >> )-right-parenthesis go exactly the quality adjusted value of your life is not worth the time of taking care

of you to provide that coverage. mark: bernie sanders never talks about this. cnn or msnbc never talks about this. aoc. nobody ever talks about this. >> right. they don't want to because they just want to say medicare for all single-payer everybody gets the best health care and it will be free and of course, we know at least three.2 trillion it will be a lot more but doubling of what we spend on health care today. mark: the expenses through the roof and the quality is through the toilet. >> exactly. >> of the government takes over the health care system dhs will be expanded greatly which adds a lot of money to the cost of government forgot the fact they probably can attract the very best and brightest people that work today in the insurance

industry because now they become public servants. mark: what is the alternative? nobody has the alternative. so let's begin this discussion. . >> universal choice can lead to universal coverage people like nancy pelosi say we need to ban short term limited duration. we need to get rid of so souls i'd like sole proprietors can get together they want to cut various choices that are out there. there are a lot of problems with the american health care system but there are solutions. mark: don't forget you can join me on levintv. go to blazetv/mark or call 844-levin-tv we will be right

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mark: one of the solutions you mentioned that people should

use their dollars to purchase without being taxed. health savings accounts. >> iras or 4o1k or pensions to say these people put money in but we need those incentives with health care. >> absolutely putting doctors and patients in charge of their care not the state or federal government we are 22 million that have health savings accounts we should have a lot more because the cost will come down when people can make decisions about the right treatment. hsa put that money away every month, not taxed and can be carried forward every year. you combine that with a high deductible health insurance plan which is good because you want health insurance therefore a catastrophic event. mark: the third is taken off the government we have all

types of different types of pension plans 4o1k roth and so forth but you seem to be saying but when it comes to health care snow on the next point insurance competition why should and shouldn't they offer all kinds of plans limited, catastrophic, college students and so forth? if we get the mandates and the crushing regulations out of the way we would have more competition to bring down price prices. >> absolutely many people have said i would love to set up my own insurance company that with all the mandates i cannot afford to do it for quite cannot survive. mark: why do you have to pay for a prostate exam. >> or in vitro fertilization. get the plan that fits your needs. we don't have that because most states have 45 or 50

mandates then under obama care that brought in ten essential benefits in the exchange they don't want these things that is why these plans are good. mark: but those who buy their own insurance? . >> but if you look how the republicans lost the house in 2018 election they lost it because they could not talk about pre-existing conditions. the democrats at 120 million have pre-existing they will lose coverage and cannot afford that cannot happen under the law. mark: when we come back what do we do about your ideas? we will be right considering?

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mark: your solutions, these solutions, are individuals that more of what they are and put it aside for their healthcare, rainy day or whatever it is just like their pension money. that is number one. the way the government can help there is get out of the way but to contact them or pay for someone else. number two, in terms of competition could have explosion of competition in insurance companies with policies from the federal government and states get out of our way. people don't necessarily need a platinum plan. some do, some don't. i know in my own case i don't need chronological care and i know other people don't need care that men would typically get and so forth. stop treating healthcare as

welfare for someone else. and then a third solution would be what? >> tort reform is a big part. the cost of medical affected in this country is about $210 billion a year. mark: every year? >> according to price waterhouse coopers. doctors practice defensive medicine because they're afraid of being sued. it's important that we change that and limit punitive damages and non- economic damages. mark: what about the supply of doctors connect government get involved in that too. they control how many doctors can graduate over medical schools and is that true? >> that is true in others a big posting medical study in medicine should be free and that is not going to solve the problem. we want the best and brightest kids to go into medicine and you have to cover the cost of that education. mark: it seems like most of these problems are government created, driving up the price of medicine, creating dislocation,

but what about preconditions? pre-existing conditions. >> it is the main issue and the reason why the republicans lost the house. mark: how do you address that? >> the people on the left progressive said 120 million americans have pre-existing conditions and there are different levels but. mark: heart disease versus broke my to. >> exactly. only about six, seven lame people who have pre-existing conditions who are in individual markets. let's take care of those people and let get the fed to put money into state high risk pools so that those people to get good coverage and it would take pressure off young people who don't buy coverage because too expensive. they will not have a heart attack. mark: your point seems to be what, if we take care of that that pool of people let's also

address the rest of it and we don't need to destroy the system to take care of six, 7 million people. we don't need to destroy this magnificent healthcare system in order to accommodate democratic socialists and centralized government. here is a little secret. nothing is free. if someone wants to offer you something for free, run fast. >> remember pj or margaret if you think healthcare is excellent about wait until it is free because it's not just the cost. it's all these rational care, waiting left, higher taxes and doctor shortages. those are very real costs. mark: part of the problem is people don't know what they have until they and then it's too late. >> once you get one of the programs look at britain and canada and there's a lot of discontent but even conservative politicians are afraid to do something about it. mark: even conservative politicians in our country today refused to get rid of obamacare. sally pipes, great honor. >> thank you, mark.

mark: don't forget next week watch us on "life, liberty and levin". will the u.s. intervene? >> military action is possible if that's what's required. >> we will discuss the failed uprising in venezuela and how its increasing tensions between the u.s. and russia when we sit down with secretary of state, mike pompeo. >> if everybody else did that, that would be considered a crime. chris: calls for resignation after testimony on mueller report, the ongoing battle between democrats and barr and new report