mr. sheena standing up to it. we are about to find out whether or not we can be successful. a long road. we will see what we get. >> julie: all right paid let's do this tomorrow. shall we? and a few more times this week. [laughs] "outnumbered" starts right now. >> melissa: fox news alert, the white house moving to block democrats 'a subpoena for key documents related to the mueller report. it's playing out across washington and on the floor of the u.s. senate today. this is "outnumbered" and i'm melissa francis. here today, harris faulkner. political columnist for the "washington examiner" ," kristen soltis anderson. host of "kennedy" on the fox business network, kennedy. and joining us on the couch come at radio host fox news contributor, richard fowler. you picked a newsy day to join us. >> richard: i picked a good day to be "outnumbered." [laughs] >> harris: you can put it that way! speak to let's get right to. the white house sending a letter to the house judiciary committee saying that it will exercise

executive privilege and not turn over documents requested in a subpoena of former white house counsel don mcgahn. in the meantime, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell on the floor today saying the investigation into the fallout of the mueller report need to stop. and accusing democrats of unfairly picking a new target. attorney general william barr. >> they told everyone there had been a conspiracy between russia and the trump campaign. yet, on this central question, the special counsel's finding is clear. case closed. they swung all these canons around, and fired them at the attorney general. not for any legitimate reason. just because he is a convenient target. >> democrat senate minority leader chuck schumer responding saying the mueller probe is "not done." >> i listen to my from the majority leader engage in an astounding bit of white washing.

unexpected, but entirely unconvincing. he wants to run away from these awful facts that relate to the wellspring of our democracy. foreign interference in our election, and a president who is lawless. >> over the new report. house judiciary chairman jerry nadler says that his panel will proceed with the vote tomorrow. told attorney general william barr in contempt. the negotiations over that are continuing today. a lot of pieces there, richard. i will start with that last par part. about the subpoena and holding him in contempt, possibly. he cannot turn over the part that was the grand jury testimony or else he will be breaking the law. >> i think there's some truth to that pretty can't turn over grand jury testimony. with houses asking for has had to turn over the other things that are redacted in the report.

we know that they can handle redacted information. they've done in the fast. they did under devin nunes when he was chair of the intelligence committee. we will have to see what happens here. to where this started, this battle between mitch mcconnell and schumer, the answer is somewhere in the middle. i don't think the mueller report is indeed finalized and finish. but i think there are some more questions to be asked over what is the nature of obstruction of justice. how do we secure our elections in the next election coming up next year. the truth is really in the middle. can the senate come together to reinforce -- >> melissa: so levelheaded of you. so evenhanded! as they say, never want to bring this one in. we are pursuing this on the democratic side. the team was excited about the idea that perhaps the present was a russian agent.

after that, any conclusion is a bit of a letdown. >> kennedy: yes, if you listen to andrew mccabe and adam schiff. he certainly was. there was absolute collusion paid you say the mueller report's and report isn't done, but is done. it's finish can be turned. william barr says, "it's my baby." he turns it over, the baby has cooked and emerged. [laughter] he has burst a report that not enough to draw a conclusion from. unlike benghazi, there was a special counsel. this is what happens. you have a special counsel, you take dozens of millions of dollars and for that at the investigation. you have a bunch of people, a bunch of witnesses, grand jury, and you write everything down. you summarize everything. and you give it over. that's what happened. democrats, some of them are pretending that it didn't happen. that the whole thing didn't happen. somehow there is still this mysterious going-on that they have to get at. they are "the x-files" and the truth is out there, and the president is an alien. >> richard: to follow that analogy, any time you have a baby come as you know, the job is of the hospitals to make sure the baby's okay.

to check its weight, the vitals. the congress of. >> kennedy: are you saying robert mueller is neglecting a baby? [laughter] he left the baby in the woods to be eaten by wolves? >> melissa: let's move beyond the baby here. would it put a button on things to have bob mueller come and testify before congress, or would this be like when we said -- when you get the mueller report, that will be it, we will be done customer gets warm i think, to have can testify. over that answer the questions? >> kristen: he's a professional. if he comes from congress, the things he will say is what's in report. maybe he would give some nuclear context, but in the first 50 pages, he really laid out, "this is why he did things that america won't like him without a politically bad for the president but are not illegal." "on obstruction of justice, i won't be in one way or the other and he's president. it's a gray area about who we can or can't fire. i believe that the congress."

i don't think he will say that in the hearing. the democrats are helping this become something more than it is now. the president's job approval in the last couple of polls have shared it being high for his administration. the report's outcome america has moved past it. democrats are hoping that maybe, just may become in the next chapter of this will change things. they are likely to be disappointed. spew on the gallup numbers are showing him a little higher than barack obama was at this point in his presidency. so, yeah, that approval rating is something that certainly republicans are taking a look at. i would think democrats would, too. i'm holding a letter -- a copy of course -- that was sent regarding don mcgahn. cc'd is the honorable doug collins, ranking member of thousand judiciary prewho has said he, too, has questions for bob mueller. among them would be, "why did you not fall down on that idea of obstruction when we are the other? so we would be out there reading tea leaves and cars and rocky babies. [laughter] >> kennedy: to your point, and

i think that's a really good point prayer there so many outstanding questions. there is a split in opinion as to whether or not a sitting president can be charged. if you think he has obstructed, that many of these actions are untoward and possibly illegal, then what better time to press the issue then with a special counsel investigation? >> harris: right. >> kennedy: if the present had done some of it reaches that threshold, go ahead and push it. even if it makes its way through the courts, at least we would have more than the recognition for the deferment of justice. >> harris: putting bob mueller in that seat is something they are saying they both want. that letter, from the 375 prosecutors and former prosecutors from both administrations recently, a republican or democrat -- i just ask about that. why we need that kind of input when what you say is we need another investigation. what do we need? >> richard: i think kristen brings up a good point. there's a gray area on volume

two of the report. why he didn't fall into the land of obstruction. >> harris: one way or the other. >> richard: is congress responsible for that? having him come down to testify in front of congress and in front of the macon people to answer some of these gray areas is a step in the right direction. to get to the bottom of this decision to move move on to the trillion dollar infrastructure bill that both the president and democrats agree on. >> melissa: instead, it may again, they want him to come and bring his documents and the president most recently sang at soccer and to happen because of. one word spying get a lot of attention, when ag parties last month during a congressional hearing, he was describing the fbi surveillancee trump campaign. he subsequently defended his use of the term as off-the-cuff. whether or not that surveillance was done legally. today the fbi director, christopher wray, was asking about using the term "spying" during his senate hearing. here's what he had to say. >> when fbi agents conduct

investigations against alleged mobsters, suspected terrorists, other criminals, i do believe they are engaging in spying? >> i believe the fbi has engaged in investigative activity, and part of investigative activity includes surveillance activity of different shapes and sizes. to me, the key question is making sure that it is done by the book. >> do you have any evidence that any illegal surveillance into the campaigns or individuals associated with the campaign by the fbi occurred? >> i don't think i personally have any evidence of that sort. >> melissa: director wray is looking to the origins of the trump campaign investigation. that was the other headline. kristin, let me start with that idea of -- it's so much about word choice. "bye" as literature and pay later he went back and said, "i was really talking about illegal surveillance." we want to know if it's illegal or legal. how much difference as it may mexico in the case of barr, he tried to say, "when i say the word spying i don't mean as a

bad thing." what i have not yet seen is any data about whether the american people, when they hear the word "spine," what do they think of? do they think it means doing something speaking and underhanded to obtain information? or do they think it just -- that it's just a synonym for surveillance? i think we don't yet know. there are different definitions, clearly. >> harris: i was going to ask kennedy. you and i spent a lot of time talking about the issue of being spied upon and the last couple of years. how should we term it? >> kennedy: i think we are getting hung up on the term and we have to look at the actions. if i were running for president right now, i would hope that christopher wray was misspeakin misspeaking. if he is saying nothing untoward happened during the 2016 presidential campaign, that means it's business as usual. that means everyone who is running for president, particularly the front runners who have the best shot at getting the nomination, they can

have those same tools used against them. there is too much surveillance power in this country. it is so easy to weaponize politically. and they should all be worried about that because this is the trump administration. this is the trump doj. so they better hope that the doj's taking a much deeper look at what it's capable of doing and what they actually did. >> that's for the fight has been, right? we want to know what happened at the level of the fisa court. it's all about that surveillance. >> richard: we can have a conversation about the surveillance states that we live in and how we fix it. but this conversation, the reason why words matter here, especially when the attorney general system, is that spying -- in my opinion, it's something very nefarious. like a warrantless wiretaps. >> melissa: illegal surveillance. >> richard: whereas when the fbi testified, director wray, he was very clear in saying that they had warrants. the judge gave a warrant, which is what you're supposed to do the of the law. to engage in surveilling

somebody. "we did at the right way, went to a judge, the romance warrant and we followed the rule of the warrant." so it's not considered spine because it's not nefarious. >> kennedy: what about the rules of the warrant? were not exactly disclosing what it is within the information that might be political problematic. i think that's an issue a lot of people have. if you can go to a secret court with some secret documents and ask for that spy power, that's where we have the issue. >> harris: it may be legal but is still spy power, which you were talking about. how does anybody else see it? >> this is where it comes down to. what was the justification for the investigation the first place? what was the evidence that was brought to that 16 court to make it so that it was legal? so they said, "yes, we believe there is enough potentiality that there is wrongdoing going on, is a cape surveilling a merrick and citizen." it's still an interesting open question that we don't know yet. >> harris: can i say one last thing?

sometimes i would hear people say, "you're going to deep in the weeds on this." think most americans understand there being watch at certain times and they have questions about the powers and the authority to make that happen. those are healthy questions in a republic and/or democracy. >> richard: i think you are right, harris. to kennedy's point, i would rather us not look at this fisa court in this political lens we are looking at it in. democrat versus republican. >> harris: are you sure you're democrats at a customer of [laughs] >> richard: the fisa courts and themselves are very problematic. you can go to secret judge, get a super orange. this is something that happened on the present bush that i think both parties should look at -- >> kennedy: president obama, as well. >> melissa: we've got to go pay that was very agreeable. democrats are facing new divisions ahead of the 2020 election. college democrats are nearly 70 schools and are urging voters not to donate to the party's congressional campaign arm. the battle over a new rule

designed to squash primary challengers -- challenges from progressives. plus, the president set to lay out his immigration plan today. also, pressing democrats for extra money to deal with the border crisis. some are resisting. "the new york times" says, "hand over the cash." we will debate. >> the question is, are they serious about a customer if they keep saying we need immigration reform. be serious about it. come up with a counter plan. they think about a counter plan. you have to come to the table and be serious about it. ♪ heart problem. i was told to begin my aspirin regimen, and i just didn't listen. until i almost lost my life. my doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. listen to the doctor. take it seriously. eh, not enough fiber... chocolate would be good... snacking should be sweet and simple. the delicious taste of glucerna gives you the sweetness you crave while helping you manage your blood sugar. glucerna. everyday progress

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>> harris: several public and senators do at the white house, 3:00 p.m. eastern to be exact. the present is set to unveil an immigration proposal paid this money, special counsel

president kellyanne conway says the plan focuses on border security and challenging democrats to acknowledge that there is a crisis and to work with the president. >> it was in january that she ran close he went on prime on-time television following the president's oval office address and said, "this is a manufactured crisis." people in our own party believe the don't like what what they see. they should come to the table and do something. same with infrastructure, drug pricing, these wildly bipartisan -- i should say, nonpartisan issues that were starving for bipartisan support. >> harris: meanwhile, some democrats are divided over whether to approve $4.5 billion, which president trump has requested to do with the border crisis. even "the new york times" editorial board is urging congress to give the president the money. the "times" with this. "something needs to be done soon. unfortunately, political gamesmanship once again threatens to hold up desperately-needed resources." some progressive democrats say

no way. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez told politico, "this in this region has not proven himself worthy of a more dully." carson garcia says, "i would not support more funding at this time." they send money like a water out of a save in washington. i got some monies okay, some is not. speak to me. >> kristen: i think kellyanne conway mentioned something 100% correct, which is that back at the end of the government shutdown situation you have the present declare a national emergency and there was a big parts and split. is there actually an emergency of the board or not? most republicans saying yes, democrats saying no. if you look at the polls, it is much more balance. both parties saying there is some kind of a crisis happening at the border. the video, the images. when it comes to this, i don't believe any of that money is allocated for a wall itself.

mortgages on the border, the ability to have more immigration courts. the ability to provide aid to these folks have come up from central and i could. that's much less of a partisan hot button than something like the wall. it's fascinating to me that these democrats on the left of the party have really put themselves on the extremes on this. >> harris: melissa, in fact they are not saying that for the ball. they are saying that one more dollar for the administration. >> melissa: that's true. they are falling further out of step with the mess of the american public. you point out the reporting that "the new york times" stated a while ago, "we pay with our bodies." they had another great op-ed yesterday, look at congress, give trump his boarding money. no, it's not for building the wall." they go on to talk about something we talked about on the couch. it's now starting to resonate. that the migration pattern, people coming over the board has changed dramatically. starting in 2014. it is no longer than male mexican day worker who wants to work and go back.

now it's these giant groups from central america and elsewhere that are coming all the way up. what we have is a huge humanitarian crisis on the border when people come over, that it is cruel. they are living in conditions that are inhumane, and that money -- people need to stop fighting and go there and work on this problem before more people die. it lays out really well. >> without everybody started to see the same picture, as you say. congress to do something. >> harris: sometimes you pick a fight with somebody not interested in winning or losing. they just want to fight. is that where we are with democrats now on this issue? >> richard: i don't think so at all. i think kristin did a good job of pressing issues. there is one issue with the border wall, which is a nonstarter for democrats. >> harris: that some of the monies for. >> richard: there's the mentoring crisis, that there are more family units coming. >> harris: is this an emergency with 100,000 coming across? by the become a 30,000 riesling. it's been called an unstable number just in the last ten

days. >> richard: i agree, we don't have the info structure. it wouldn't have enough immigration judges for asylum claims. >> harris: is an emergency? >> richard: we don't have enough places to house these people. there's something requiring them to focus on it. if you look at the president's plan, we will learn more at 3:00. which you will find that this plan doesn't deal with the main reason for illegal immigration in this country, which is the set overstay. they come and not leave. they come as a student and aren't leaving. >> melissa: but that's a law that needs be changed by congress. i hear you are saying. we have this broken immigration law that neither side has fixed and both share the blame for that. the president doesn't have the power to write legislation. >> harris: i honestly don't think either, kennedy, that they will fix anything by 3:00 today or two years from now that they haven't wanted to fix in the past. the only thing that has changed in this right now is the time. we saw 90,000 unaccompanied children.

three years ago. >> kennedy: you see them finally talk about seasonal and guest worker visas. increasing the number of those. they are going to have to, because if you have more jobs than workers who can fill them -- which you have any tight labor market -- you are going to have to have choices available to employers. that is one aspect. >> harris: can we pause right there? i want to get senator tom cotton on the issue. he does not agree. you're talking about the age to be worker visas. i want to get your response in the back end. let's watch. i'm going to sound just like in prayer [laughter] our immigration system -- sorry, kennedy -- should privatize the needs of citizens over cheap foreign labor. allowing an additional 30,000 seasonal workers into the country forced americans to compete for jobs against noncitizens who drag damages." and you say what? >> kennedy: i would say that they need to go take the same basic economics class. because that is not the case at all. it actually increases choices

and it is better for the labor market. it's better for employers to have a wider range of people to choose from. when you don't have enough people to fill the bill, some businesses aren't going to do well. >> richard: i think professor kennedy is right, that also if you put them into the legal system, you give them worker visas, then they aren't exploited by lower wages paid they have to follow the minimum wage laws of those particular states, which won't depress wages. >> harris: does that keep them for overstaying their visas? that's where it started. some in your party don't want ice. who will collect these people? >> richard: this is why i think you have to look at the entire immigration system has a hole. you can talk about expanding worker visas without modernizing our actual visa system, which is very old and archaic. >> harris: it is suggested by the end of the year we will see 1 million people cross illegally. that is an emergency, we have to do with it. they have it fixed in all these years, is there something we can do right now? that's a question. we will move on.

young democrats going after the party's congressional fund-raising arm over a new policy that some argue would have prevented congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez from challenging a powerful incumbent in 2018. remember, she be to grow crowley is the party making a critical mistake? plus, joe biden jumping out to a quick lead over bernie sanders and the rest of the big 2020 democratic field. how sanders is fighting back. and with the likes of kamala harris and beto o'rourke meaning to do to slow down the former vice presidents. ♪ ♪ limu emu and doug.

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we must be donald trump >> kennedy: he should be reaching out pulling anything prayer [laughter] that was him on the campaign trail in south carolina pretty pictures and can dismiss in that state. none of the most import and prices in the race. the democratic nomination outcome of the former vp is jumping out to a lead nationally and may be encouraging his competitors to take the gloves off. the real clear politics, the average of the poll, showing that since he announced on apria double-digit lead over near his opponent. some say his legal mess. here is see ronna mcdaniel. >> i think he's a temporary front runner. he's got a balance because of any idea because he just launched his campaign, obviously he is well known around the country. he is not face any tough questions and he certainly hasn't hit that debate stage with the other 20 candidates that are going to gunning for

him. >> kennedy: meanwhile, other democrats taking a harder line here senator sanders over the weekend. >> in iraq i led the effort against it. joe voted for a permanent trade relations agree with china. let the effort against that. joe voted for the deregulation of wall street. i voted against that. i think if you look at joe's record and my record, i don't think there is much question about who is more progressive. >> kennedy: and bernie certainly more progressive. he's also more persistent pain can they afford the sanders level of authenticity question with its very extensive. >> richard: [laughs] dr. democratic voters in iowa and new hampshire in south corona, it's not about being more progressive but who is more electable. if you look at the polls and succulent particular you see that amongst african-american women, his numbers are through the roof. amongst working-class voters,

they have to win the state back. the numbers are through the roof. the reason being, one, there is name idea, where she is right. where she is wrong as he hasn't faced the tough questions. look for his role out there was all we can have controversy around the vice president and how he likes to smell hair and touched shoulders. the fact that he answered that and so does well in the polls -- [laughter] >> kennedy: a really diminishing the stories of some of the women who have come forward and talked about how they were so discomforted by -- >> richard: and not to mention the stories at all. i'm just talking about with the polls say. >> kennedy: we should talk about with the democratic party says. they've set for a long time that they want to get out of the old white male paradigm. >> harris: is it really a buddy barack situation. i think he would come out and say, "you're the person i am behind." they are not good to come out address anybody right away. that's one. not to push too hard on this point, but when you talk about -- because he brought it up -- people who are tan like

us, licking on your side of the aisle joe biden, he served with the nation's first black president. if they are really couple like that, it makes a lot of sense. what are his plans? and we talk prison reform? what does this pass look like with regard to people of color? when that topic comes up -- and i'm sure it will, we are in that part of our history we talk a lot about race -- the current president will be able to talk about bringing people together at the white house on prison reform. a lot of people on the other side of the aisle from and have said, "that will never happen." it can and it did. >> richard: i will give the president kudos for criminal justice reform. if you talk to african-american voters -- >> harris: considering it's such a huge sticking point for joe biden in his past, yeah. >> richard: if you talk to african-american voters as a whole, they will say donald trump is a nonstarter for various reasons. there's a litany of reasons i could list as to why they feel that way. we don't have time in the segment to list all the reasons

they have a problem with president donald trump. i think -- >> harris: black unemployment. i'm just spitting rhymes. the >> richard: i get that. i think the african-americans look to what happened in charlottesville, could people on both sides pray that he called caribbean and african countries -- places. despite these committees, way out they don't like him. >> melissa: i want to get back to this in particular, getting back at the democratic side. one of the thing interesting by the primaries is that somebody is leading by so much. like sanders paid all of this and they lose steam. it's a long marathon, and that's what makes it fascinating for all of us. right now, joe biden's way out in front and we have no idea what it's going to look like even six months from now. >> kennedy: but he's losing steam. he had a bit of a bounce but he is almost passed the post-announcement bound. >> melissa: i think is very similar to president trump.

i think it's one of the problems. they have so much similarity in terms of who they appeal to, what they try to say. i don't think he is -- that he creates enough of a contrast to inspire people to go out and vote. >> kristen: one thing is fascinating, if you look at the republican primary in 2012 where you had a really crowded -- you had folks trying to take on barack obama, unseat a mid-term president. you had mitt romney with slightly less than the third of the party. he was the front at the beginning. but there was a lot of turn it. he would have been moments paid you had rick santorum winning i will, newt gingrich winning south carolina. romney held steady, held onto his voters, and slowly but surely grew his share and wound up revealing. that'll have to be the pattern. he doesn't have the skill to handle the viral moments when it came to the story that women were saying that they were uncomfortable. he was real slow-footage respond to that. >> harris: even though we had an extra week or two. think about it. >> kristen: it doesn't work like that. he will be as good as harnessing the viral moments.

can hang on tv hasn't survived a ride? >> harris: richard, i will pay for coffee. we have more to talk about, my friend. >> kennedy: so much more, i can't wait for this debates. >> harris: the coffee debates? >> kennedy: quick programming programming note, fox news poll boat eight town hall with any cr sharper that's happening to himr and martha maccallum will moderate. it's 6:30 p.m. eastern, 3:30 in the west. don't miss it. plus, under their showdown between the trump white house and democrats. this time it's over the president's tax returns. where the battle goes from here after the treasury secretary says no to democrats. what this means for congressional oversight. stay with us. ♪ but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost.

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minasian told the house ways and means chairman richard neal in a letter, "have you as you recognize, this is unprecedented and present serious constitutional questions. i determined that request last time i collected useful purpose. they are not authorized or signature statement that he will "consult with counsel and determine the appropriate response." fellow democrats ted lieu say that steven mnuchin is wrong on the line the democrats will fight the decision in court. watch it. >> stephen minasian is violating the law. there is no way around this pair this is black letter law. it's plain as day. i don't see how steve mnuchin can come up with this decision to simply violate the law. congress is going to litigate this and we will win that court case. >> harris: democrats calling for a contempt citation for the secretary. i heard you coming. speak a lot of people are getting contempt citations right now.

we are stuck in this protected battle in a lot of different spots, whether it's a g bar or steven mnuchin. the idea of forcing democrats to go to court to get these things, this is kind of where we end up. and then they run out the clock. it's in court forever. nothing ever comes of it. the american people at home wonder, what is that you were supposed to be doing with this time that you're taking this person to court to get the starkness? is there still parts of the border? of a question mark what are you doing with your time? >> kristen: when you look at where the public stance on this issue, the majority says they want to see the tax return. they are okay that he's being asked for them. on the other hand, it's a salience issue. you can find 80% of americans saying they want all sorts of things. if it's the 30th issue on the list of things they are making decisions about, how much does it really matter? the president sort of political calculation to just write it out, that they are not going to

release them, from a polling perspective it does not appear to really hurt him yet that he has not released them. >> harris: i got a double nod from you on that. she six it's interesting that the americans see that -- with this person is, how they make money, how they will lead. we saw when bernie released the tax returns, it made the news. how he made money off his book, what it means for the american people. i think this is a question -- like i said, the second point i was going to make was i think it's a question for the voters. if you don't like the fact that donald trump did not release his tax returns, vote against him. >> harris: kennedy? >> kennedy: i think it's an issue for 2020. if we are having shrinking pain as opposed to growing pains in terms of the size and scope of the executive branch, this is the wrong way to go about it. if that's a long-term goal of house democrats, they need to take a better path. that one is shortsighted. it's immature and they really

are playing a very small game here. it's tit for tat, ping-pong, exhausting. his underserved voters. it is way down on the list of what people require and want from their legislators. if that's the under don michael's michael and they want their power back, that's an adult ask. that is rational and reasonable. however, they are acting like children. therefore -- >> melissa: i don't think they are acting like children. it's a smart move when you are saying, "we are still asking for the tax returns." you see one headline, "he said will release him." what deciding was mark but it's so small the list of your easily distracted when you're thinking about the crisis of the border. health care. somebody please, go work in health care. >> richard: it's a knock -- the law does allow the congress to request any americans tax returns, including the

president. >> melissa: every voter to do it when you're talking right now. >> richard: there is no person above the law. once again, this is the question they will have to ask them. the truth of the matter is, the law backs up house democrats in saying that you have the right to ask for somebody's tax returns. that's what's given to the congress. >> kristen: they are allowed to ask if there is a legitimate reason to do so. that's where the real friction is going to come in. >> harris: excuse me once i can, use of the word "legitimate." can we get to the tweet by chuck grassley: "big difference between those. the text request is the latter. we should all hope we never go back to the irs being political like under nixon and lbj. you were going to finish your thought on that. >> kristen: religion or what cost means trying to investigate something that is pertinent to with the committee is doing.

the justification is we want to know whether the irs responds quickly to audit. that's what senator kennedy talked about this week and if interview. that seems kind of silly to use that as a justification for getting -- is there no one else you could have asked for? this is the sort of thing where we are hashing out what words mean. is this a legitimate request or not? the courts will resolve it. ultimately -- >> kennedy: its political ping-pong. we don't have a fourth player right now. >> harris: more signs of division among democrats. oh, richard. you will be able to weigh in on this. how much and college immigrants are whether the democrat party's plan to keep thousand majority s actually driving away young voters. and what it all may mean for 2020. we will debate it. he watch it. ♪ ok everyone! our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy!

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♪ >> melissa: college democrats from at least 68 schools are urging voters not to donate to the democratic congressional campaign committee. after instituting a new policy stating that vendors are not allowed to have a contract with any primary candidate who is challenging and a cabin. can you imagine? the president of the harvard college democrats telling the

atlantic, "as college democrats we did a lot of work to build the new democratic majority. this is a policy that is going to silence a lot of voices like ours. ." this came after alexandria ocasio-cortez defeated joe carli and a 2018 primary race. she's chiming in on the policy of the party's congressional campaign arm, saying, "primaries are often the only way that the under presented and working class people are able to have a shot at pursuing elected office. ocasio-cortez hope she is called them to be primary. moderate. may be moderate as we met there let me ask about this. i love this idea because i never thought it made sense. just finally get behind a party. you believe in the candidates and with a stand for. trying to homogenize everybody in their group and say lock step behind us, this is the candidate

we are pointing to, democrats are pushing back against that. 3 feet groups like the dccc, the nrc c, the number one job is preserve and grow their maturity. it's much easier to hang onto a seat when any cabinet member of congress is running for election then went to an open seat or somebody who is a new fresh face. however, on the democratic side, a lot of energy and the parties coming from the younger folks who are at odds. i do logically, what they want out of candidates, with the established into the democratic party. republicans went through this with the tea party clashing with organizations like, say, the nrs c back to the 2012 cycle. trying to do these primary challenges in it becoming really controversial in the party. >> melissa: this push and pull, democrats are so much better as working at a group. everybody staying in line, and that has been the strength. you see that a lot whether it's in congress or anywhere else. getting everybody behind a candidate. republicans almost by definition, when you're right of

center, you value freedom over group. they never cooperated very well and it hurts an election. do you worry that for democrats that trying to keep everybody together is disenfranchising? >> richard: this is a very interesting rule. he basically says that if you are a vendor or a pollster where you do a campaign, you can't have contact with somebody in the race and do a contract with an incumbent. why this is problematic is those countries done my company knew getting to the field and they want to play. i give the dccc of credit to what they been able to do in the 2018 lows action. they did a stellar job. there has to be space in this party, party i belong to, for new people to run and say they don't believe they are being adequately represented by the current incumbent. like your new york i'm in bosto boston. the reason he voted for her vehement commences that he

showed up for us. i think you have to allow space. for one incumbent to run for reelection, and you have to have space for new candidates and new blood coming into the party, which is what the college immigrants represent to have a voice. >> kennedy: there's a big split in the party. this shows that the two-party system should be dead. there is no way the two parties can represent the needs of so many americans with different voices. if i were a college democrat i would be super frustrated. it just goes to show that the establishment and the dccc do not like alexandria ocasio-cortez and the amount of oxygen she takes for herself. they want to make sure -- and nancy pelosi is still mad. >> melissa: more "outnumbered" in just a moment. musical music rst sandwich, your move-in-day...feast. your bold canine caper. [child] that's not for you, bandit! your dinner in the dark. your mammoth masterpiece. [whispering] your 3:47 am snack.

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>> melissa: think you today to richard fowler. we had a very agreeable day here on the couch. the >> richard: we did! >> harris: any final thoughts? >> richard: a big shout out to my sister who celebrated her

20th birthday on sunday. happy birthday! >> melissa: very nice. we'll be back here at noon eastern tomorrow. now, here is harris. >> harris: fox news alert, new escalation in the standoff between the white house and house democrats. the administration told a member of its legal team not to comply with the congressional subpoena. this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. the white house telling former counsel don mcgahn not to turn over any documents related to the mueller investigation as democrats have demanded. administration officials are citing executive privilege. in a letter to the house judiciary committee. meanwhile, officials from the justice department and chairman jerry nadler's team our meeting today ahead of his panels vote tomorrow on whether to hold the attorney general in contempt for refusing to turn over the full mueller report. republicans say it's time to move on. democrats don't agree. >> it doesn't make it so. the american people want answers and accounta