completing the 1800-mile rail line and trimming a six month cross-country wagon trip to a 10-day train ride. that's how fox reports this saturday, may 11th. i'm jon scott, thanks for watching. ♪ ♪ mark: hello, america, i'm mark levin. this is "life, liberty and levin." we have a great guest. sally pipes, how are you? >> fine, thank you. nice to be on with you. mark: tell you why i wanted you here, youma are a health care expert, you've been studying in your entire life. >> yes. mark: it's time to get to the bottom of this. we hear these things thrown out about health care for all, universal health care, single-payer health care, medicare for all, medicare's going broke, medicaid is

consuming state budgets. so i want to start to get to the bottom of this, because even with all the other things going on in this country that are very important, thisus is too. it involves our health and our fiscal health as a nation. sally pipes, you're president, chief executive officer of the pacific research institute, a san francisco-based think tank founded in 1979. fantastic organization. you've written a lot and you still write a lot about this subject of health care. so let's start from the beginning. what is single-payer health care? >> right. well, that's a very important point, because a lot of people have no idea what it really means. single-payer health care, mark, means the government is the only provider of health care. all private coverage, private insurance -- what people have employer-sponsored coverage, whatever -- is all banned under a single-payer system, and the government provides what is considered medically necessary for the population. mark: so all private health care goes away. >> right.

mark: alll employer health care goes away. >> right. mark: and the central government takes over the health care issue. >> right. there will only be two to other organizations that provide health care. one is the v.a., the veterans administration x the second one would bee the indian health services. but medicare, medicaid, everything is rolled into one government, program. leand as kamala harris, the senator from california, said let's get rid of private insurance and have the government be in charge. mark: this thing, the government be in charge, we don't really know what that means. we don't know what department would handle it, who would handle it, we don't know how they wouldle make decisions, how we as patients would even get our health care. do we have to contact the government in advance? isw the government going to put us on kind of a -- some kind of a rationing program? how are we going to see specialists? how are we going to get our medicine? now you can go to the grocery store, go to a cvs or

something -- we have nod idea what they're talking about, do we? >> well, i think i do because i'm a former canadian who grew up under single-payer. whether you look at the canadian system, the british national health service, 90% of brits are under the government program which is turning 71. but what it means is that the american people-to, you know, go to their, go to their -- book an appointment with a a doctor, but doctors will be paid -- under bernie sanders' plan -- about 40% below what they get paid for treating patients today -- mark: let's stop right there. this is important. we're already having a shortage of doctors -- >> right. mark: it's predicted there's going to be an even worse shortage, right? >>el absolutely. by 2030 there will be a shortage in this country of 126,000 the doctors. and not only that, you know, a lot of medical students -- the best and brightest kids have always gone into medicine in this country.

if they think they're going to be civil servants paid 40% below, are they going to go into medicine? this is a very important point. land the second thing is that under a government-controlled program, government's going to have to decide how much are they going to pay for health care. and when people think something is free, they're going to demand a hot more of it. so -- a lot more of it. so they will have to go to waiting lists, and they will have to ration care. and it's the elderly who will be most harmed by rationed care. mark: let's break this down a little bit. so, basically, government intervention -- let's just take the sanders plan, and there are even more radical plans out there, we'll get to that in a moment. so that will have a negative effect on the population of doctors. people may not understand, if you're going to become a doctor, it is a lot of work. it is very expensive, there's a lot of schooling, and these kids are studying day and night. i know, i've seen it in my own family. and then you're going to tell them at the tend of the process, you're basically working for the government, either directly or

indirectly, and we're going to cap your income, we're going to control your life. we're going to cap your income, you'll earn 40% less, so you're going to have a diminished number of doctors while you're going to have a greater impact on the health care system because people say, well, it's free. well, i hurt my toe, i'm going to go in here. and it's going to clog the system. >> well, absolutely. i mean, under senator sanders' man he is, his plan is even more comprehensive than the canadian plan because he wants to add free dental, free drugs, free long-terml care, they don't even have that under the canadian health care system. and the plan if has been costed out from 2017 at $32 trillion over ten years. no government program, mark, ever turns out to cost what it's from producted. remember lyndon johnson, the medicare and medicaid under the great society? it came in at $3 billion in the first year, medicare. they predicted by 1990 it would cost about $12 billion, it cost

$110 billion. so even at $32 trillion, currently we're spending about $3.5 trillion a year on health care, there is going to be a huge demand, and the-d cost will be much higher, and government's going to have to cut back in control. we'll get waiting lists, taxes will have to be increased and, of course, that doctor shortage issue as well. mark: you weree born in canada. what happened to your mother in canada? >> so my mother was a senior, and she felt that she might have colon cancer. and so -- now, bernie sanders says in his plan no person will have to get a referral to go to a specialist, but in systems like canada and the u.k., you have to. so she went to her general practitioner and said she thought she had cocolon cancer. he said, we'll do an x-ray. nothing showed up. i said, mom, you need a kohl not to coby. she wanted me to call back, and

he said, well, you know, as a senior, we have too many younger people on the waiting list to get colonoscopies. some people are waiting eight months to a year. so she didn't get it. suggestion months later, she was hemorrhaging, can and she went to the hospital in an ambulance. two days in the emergency room, two days in a transit lounge waiting to get a bed in a ward. she got the colonoscopy, but she passed away two week later from metastasized cancer. you reduce cost by denying care, and it's very, very sad. and the same thing will happen, youad know, in the united state. look at the number of people in the v.a. who complain about the v.a., the long waiting times, vets are dying on gurneys waiting for cower, there's fraud. the v.a. is a single-payer system in this country, and that's an example on a micro level of what would happen if the government totally took over our health care system. mark: horrible, what happened to your mother. and you said something in there,

she was a senior. >> right. mark: she wasn't prioritized. >> no, absolutely not. mark: if you're younger, you will be prioritized under certain circumstances. and so now we have the government making decisions about life and death. not individual human beings making decisions about a their n lives. sorry, you can't get a colonoscopy. why not? well, only the government provides them and approves them. okay, well, i need one? you're elderly. we have younger people who are waiting, so you have to wait. either you leave the country to get care somewhere else, or you're stuck, correct? >> yes, absolutely. today in canada, a very large country, a population of about 37 million people. 200,000 canadians go abroad every year to pay out of pocket for an mri machine, mri, a stent, a new hip, a new shoulder because the waiting time is just too long because the government sets that budget, 31% in canada

of --11% of gross domestic product, and that's what they're prepared to spend. that demand is much greater than what the government is willing to supply. mark: let's talk about this gross domestic product, you know? people, oh, great, who cares? 11% in canada. so they arbitrarily decide, the government does, that's the amount of money we're going to spend, equivalent of 11% of the gdp on health care. in the united states social security what percent? >> just over 18% today. mark: just over 18%, and i hear bernie sanders and others say we spend too much on health care. and, first of all, as opposed to what? >> right. mark: as opposed to what? a cake or cars or whatever? you spend what you need to spend. but here's my question to you, we say health care. that's a big industry. it's technology, it's buildings, it's personnel, it is everything associated with it. is so it's a very, very

important part ofth our economy, right? >> right, exactly. mark: so the idea you say we spend 18%, we have to spend less, you spend what you spend. and one of the pressures on the increased spending, quote-unquote, on health care, isn't it government? >> well, exactly. 50% of health care in this country is in the hands of government already. people say, well, america has thisnm free market health care system, and people are dying in the streets. that's just not true. 50% is in medicare, the program for seniors, medicaid, the program for low income people, the v.a., the veterans administration, and the c.h.i.p. program. we have a lot of government in our health care system,gr and government, whether it's at the national level or at the state level, has tremendous number of mandates on insurance companies and what they have to provide which adds tremendously to the cost. but, you know, if you look at 18%, my mom used to say, well, you know, i hope you're not becoming one of those impatient americans. america is the most wealthy country in theos world.

americans, if they want an mri, they want it tomorrow or next week. they don't want to have to wait, like canadians, 11 weeks on average to get an mri, and that's whyhy so many leave the country to get something that's important to them. mark: they're counting on -- i bet the green eye shade types in the bureaucracy are counting on a certain percentage of the population getting health care somewhere else. >> yes, exactly. and it'se interesting, being fm vancouver, one of my friends -- dr. brian day, an orthopedic surgeon -- runs a private clinic called the canby surgery center. the provinces actually run each health care system. the feds provide funding, and then the provincial governments raise taxes. brian has been in a lawsuit being sued by the b.c. government in the b.c. supreme court for three years because the government says what he is doing is illegal. fohe's treating 60,000 patientsa year, and some of them are even politicians who don't want any

private coverage, but they're using the system when they think -- his program when they think something is serious. so here he is, they're trying to starve him of funding to support this a case. but, you know, if he treats 60,000 people and they're paying for it, the b.c. medical plan will payay part, but it's taking pressure off the government system where people are having to wait. mark: when we come back, these government-centric systems are about government. they're not about the welfare of the individual. they're not about individuals making decisions about their own lives. they're not about parents making decisions about children or adult children making decisions about their elderly parents. when we come back, i want to explore this because this is, in addition to a financial disaster, it is a human disaster. ladies and gentlemen, don't forget, almost every weeknight you can watch me on levin tv, just join us at blaze tv.com/mark.

blaze tv.com/mark or give us a call at 844-levin-tv. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ i can't tell you who i am or what i witnessed, but i can tell you liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i only pay for what i need. oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no... only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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the inhumanity of government-run health care is this, is it not? you can't see a doctor when you want to see a doctor. you can't see the doctor you want to see. you have got rationing, you've got waiting lines, you've got shortages. do you think the media are doing an adequate job explaining exactly what we mean when we talk about medicare for all and single-payer and everybody should have free health care? >> well, i think that the mainstream media's very bad because they aren't telling the american people the truth about it. and my role in life is to educate americans on what it would mean for them, their health and their long-term survival. i mean, if you look in canada, in 2018 the average wait from seeing a primary care doctor to getting treatment by a specialist, 19.8 weeks. that's almost five months. back in 1993 that wait time was onlyee 9.3 weeks.

and it's not free. the canadians pay on average in hidden taxes $13,000 a year for health care where they have to wait,30 and it's rationed just like it was in the case, you know, of my mother and other elderly people. so the mainstream media needs to talk about what when bernie sanders says this is his medicare for all plan, and there'll be no referrals and you can get an appointment whenever and you'll be able to get the very best care, no waiting times, nothing, this is just not, not the truth. mark: is bernie sanders lying? >> i think he is lying because he is so committed to the concept of government entitlement and that, in his view, governmentng is the best provider of everything, and everybody should be under -- mark: is not his proposal the most inhumane proposal? >> absolutely. i mean, he's not telling the truth to the american people. he never says how much his program will cost or how it's going to be paid for. i hate to say this, but even nancy pelosi, the democratic

speaker, when she looked at the medicare for all plan and in an interview with "rolling stone," she said $30 trillion over ten years, how are we going to pay for that? even she understands it would killll the taxpayers. we'd have to have huge tax increases. there'd be new taxes and bernie's talking about a new payroll tax of 7%, an estate tax of 77 on the american people, a new tax the on large financial institutions. mark: this would impoverish the country, wouldn't it? >> it would, and that's -- mark: and it would be a massive redistribution of authority. from the individual and the private sector to politicians, bureaucrats and the government, wouldn't it? >> well, if you look at the house member from washington state who has got a single-payer medicare for all plan too, even more comprehensive than the sanders plan, she wants to bring in the whole -- take over the health care system in two years.

bernie's plan is over four years. but, you know, she just said in the mainstream media after the cbo report came out on may 1st that a million people employed in the insurance industry would lose their jobs. well, what does this mean for the government? they're going to have to hire millions of people to run, to process claims, to book appointments, to pay doctors. all of these things which would be a disaster. i mean, i often think everyone, pretty much everyone hates having to face going to the dmv which is a single government monopoly program. is that what people want for their health care? evenhi the post office today, te mark, has competitiice got a lit better because they have fedex and dhl and ups. and if i want something to get somewhere on time, i use one of those services. but this means the health care system would be like the dmv. no private coverage for anything -- mark: let me is ask you this, are there a lot of people running to canada for health care? >> no, p absolutely not. mark: are there a lot of people

leaving the united states for the u.k.? >> let's think about mix -- mick jagger of the rolling stones, he needed a valve replacement in his heart. he was in florida at the time. he had it done at new york presbyterian, one of the best hospitals in this country. his younger brother in england said, well, thank goodness mick didn't have to stand in line under the national health service. i mean, he could have -- britain does allow some private coverage, and he could have gone there, but i bet he thought that the care that he could get and the treatment at new york presbyterian would far outweigh the coverage in the u.k. mark: why do you think there's so much appeal -- i'm not saying the majority of the public, but so much appeal with the left propaganda which seeks to destroy some of the greatest institutions ever developed by mankind and replace them with theories and abstractions and utopian promises that we all know are impossible because

they're utopian? >> right. bernie sanders, when i found out that he honeymooned in the former soviet f union -- mark: an odd spot, isn't it? >> that he believes that even when everything was fail anything the eastern bloc in the soviet union, he thinks that is, you know, the way our society should be run. remember several years ago hillary clinton wrote that book, "it takes a village." well, that village is government, and these people think -- whether it's hillary, bernie sanders or the darling of the mainstream media, alexandria ocasio-cortez, the member of the house from new york -- she has a new plan, she loves single payer. butt she also has come out recently and said the v.a. is an excellent example of providing great health care, and it ain't broke and so we shouldn't fix it. but her new plan is the v.a. for all. well, even the democratic member of the house from massachusetts, mr. howltop, came out and said i'm a member of the v.a. because

iai was in the military, and it isn't a great quality system. but these people are just out this telling the american people -- out there telling the american people that this should be thees way it should be. look at the polls under, like, kaiser.. 71%, yes, when you tell them you'd have to pay higher taxes and all lose your private coughage, that support drops to 37%. mark: a lot of this is because the media just regurgitates what they're told by the hard left. they don't take a close look at this. we're told all the time, look at canada and the u.k., we're the only advanced industrialized society that doesn't are this or tythat, look at scandinavia and those countries there. the fact is their health care systems are a disaster for the people. we're going to explore this a little more when we come back. it turns out they want me to start next month. she can stay with you to finish her senior year?

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gallons of the product, but it's not clear how much might have leaked. the chemical poses no threat to humans but can cause harm to marine life. i'm jon scott, now back to "life, liberty and levin," and for all your headlines, log on to foxnews.com. ♪ ♪ mark: sally pipes, vermont, they tried the bernie sanders experiment the last, what, three years? what happened in vermont? >> well, in vermont governor shumlin, democrat, signed the single-payer bill which, you know, bernie sanders has been touting for years. he signed that bill this 2011. it was supposed to come into effect, you know, shortly, but it hadn't been. in 2014, december 2014, we had to withdraw that bill because he said the people of vermont cannot afford the cost of this single-payer health care system. in colorado, you know, there was an amendment 69 on the ballot.

it went down 79-21. even john hicken loop arer, the governor at the time -- hickenlooper, who is now in the race for the democratic nomination, he urged the people of color not to pay for it -- the people of colorado not to vote for it. mark how about california? >> california, the senate in 2017 signed a single-payer bill. it had been costed out by the senate appropriations bill, $403 billion a year. think about that, double the entire budget of the state of california. the assembly leader pulled it and parked it and said we cannot afford this in the state of california. mark: new york? new york state has passed many times at the assembly level the new york health act. now the dems have the governorship under cuomo, they have the senate and they have the assembly. the new york health act is back on the books. it actually has added long-term care to it, it's even more comprehensive. the original -- former bill was

costing $130 billion a year, this is going to bring it up to about $160 billion a year. even some public sector unions, mark, are saying, hey, we don't want this, we have great health care through our union. and, of course, governor cuomo has said, well, he wants the feds to be in charge -- mark: so he doesn't want to sign that. >> he doesn't want to sign that either. mark: we look at the federal 250 trillion in unfunded liabilities including from a economics professor in massachusetts who testified just a few years ago. you have the trustees of medicare saying we're broke in eight years. >> right. mark: the trustees of social security saying, oh, and we're broke in 18 years. there's no proposal for fixing medicare. in fact, the opposite. bernie sanders says medicare for all. is so medicare for all would destroye medicare, would

eliminate medicare. the government would step in, as we've been discussing. all the people who out of their paychecks all these years have been, quote-unquote, contributing to medicare -- now, you and i know it goes into a general fund, but let's play along. all the money that was supposed to go to -- poof, that's all gone. and we're going to replace it with something because a 29-year-old gotit elected from w york or a democratic socialist, he likes to call himself, from vermont has a plan? if these aren't new plans. these plans are100 years old, and they fail wherever they're tried. >> well, absolutely. senator sanders has just recently come out in this congress and said, you know, five years ago the whole idea of medicare for all was a fringe idea, but now it's in the mainstream, and we need to, we need to move forward with it. i have the people behind me. well, the people that are behind him obviously don't realize what they

medicare for all would mean. and, you know, even, as you say, we all pay huge taxes to pay for the medicare tax, and yet so many seniors today find that their doctors won't take them because of the low reimbursement rates. so they have to go out and buy, purchase supplemental plans so doctor will get paid plans so what the, for the value of their service. mark: uh-huh. >> we have about 60 million people on med tear -- medicare today, and about 10,000 a day are being added because my generation, the baby boom generation, is turning 65. and so there's going to be a huge pressure on medicare, and it's not, you know, as i say, it's not working. and yet bernie sanders and alexandria ocasio-cortez,t they want this system for the whole of our country? it -- america is a country of entrepreneurship. people like choices. they don't want the government to be fully in charge. mark: and we want to keep emphasizing, this is inhumane because you're treating people like

cattle, like sheep. people are going to be categorized. new drugs are going to be difficult to bring to the market, let alone available to people even when they're brought to the market. senior citizens will be discriminated against, and discussions like that are going to have to be made. what the hell ever happened to obamacare? i thought that was going to fix everything. >> well, absolutely. remember, when obama was a senator from illinois, he was a supporter of single payer. when he became the president and was behind obamacare, the affordable care act, he said he wasn't for single payer because the american people like their employer-sponsored insurance, which about 173 million americans have employer-sponsored insurance. after office, of course, he's come out and said he's again in favor of single payer. his two ideas for the health care system under obamacare; one,ea to wipe out all the uninsured which, you know, right now there are about 28 million still uninsured, he wanted to lower the cost of health care. none of that has happened. and obamacare has been a failure

because the premiums are too high, the deductibles are too high. people found out that the doctor and the exchange plan that they signed up for, the metallic plan, or their doctor wasn't on that plan. we upset the whole health care system in this country in 2010 when obamacare came into law because -- for treating about anywhere between 11-13 million people. we could have provided private ndcoverage for all those people. mark: [inaudible] >> yes, exactly. you know, people couldn't afford to sign up. the average premium today on an exchange plan in this country is about $600 a month. the cost curve did not come down, and the uninsured were not, you know, wiped out even with 80% of the exchange people are receiving subsidies from the federal government. but we're the taxpayers, we're providing that funding. mark: it's always interesting that when they fail, their answer's more government, less freedom, more taxes, more of the

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back on track. well done guys. (team member) this is wells fargo. mark: now, sally pipes, the united kingdom has a very old health care system. since, what, 1948, give or take. >> right. mark: it's been around a long time. you'd think they would have perfected it by now. how's that system? >> the national health service turns 71 this july -- mark: oh, let me put that on my calendar. no, just kidding. >> it has been in financial distress ever since. and today in the u.k. they say that the average number of days that you should wait between diagnosis by your doctor and getting cancer treatment should be 62 days. mark: slow down. two months, you're diagnosed with cancer -- >> right. mark: and there's really nothing you can do? >> no. unless you go abroad somewhere else, like come to america. but 62 days, you have a time

under the legislation, you have to be the -- an ambulance has to be able to take you into the emergency room within four hours of picking, getting a call to take someone. they haven't beenou able to reach -- they're thinking about getting rid of that four-hour time. mark: so you need an ambulance, you make a call, and they have a rule that the ambulance needs to show up within four hours. >> yeah, at the hospital. mark: and they can't make it. >> the they can't make it. there's so many ambulances, you know, trying to pick up so many people, there's not enough supply. and so, and today 236,000 brits are waiting six months or more to get an appointment to get a doctor, and 36,000 are waiting nine monthso or more, they hava shortage of 31,000 docs -- 11,000 docs in the u.k., and they're offering 25,000 pounds to get british doctors to come back to the u.k., plus 46,000 nursing shortage. which, you know, when you look at the nurses' union in this

country the union that's really pushing for single payer. well, there are many jobs in the national healthfo service, they should just go to the u.k. and see what it means to work long, long hours and to be paid very low wages. mark: this so-called nice system that this in britain, what is that? >> it's called the national institute for health and clinical excellence, which is not ther truth. what nice does is it figures out, say, mark, you're 50 and you, you know, need a very expensive cancer drug. they say, well, the value of your life is $200,000, and the drug costs $100,000. you would then be able to get that drug. but if you're 65, 66 and you're retired and you, they say the value of your life is $50,000 and you need that drug at $100,000, you're not going tos e able to get it because it's --

the actuary says you're not worth it. mark: let me get this straight. so the government, effectively -- >> the agency, yes. mark: -- puts a financial value on life. >> right. mark: and the older you are and the sick or you are, the less the value of your life. in other words, the more you need health care, the less you're likely to get it. >> right, exactly. mark: and that's how they cut their costs.>> >> that's how you ration care which is in the mainstream media every day in the u.k. about the long waits, the rationed care -- mark: i just want to be clear about this. so they have their matrix, whatever it is, their model, and they make a discussion, and there's a cutting edge drug that might improve the quality of your life, prolong your life. you're 71 years old, they say, well, we can only spend up to this much. after that, sorry, too bad. >> right, exactly. the quality adjusted value of is not worth the costalue of of taking care of you and providing that coverage. and so --

mark: i notice bernie sanders never talks about this. i notice cnn never talks about this, msnbc never talks about this, i notice aoc never talks about this. i notice no one ever talks about this. >> right. they don't want to talk about it, because they want to say medicare for all, single payer, everyone will get the best health care, and it will be free. and, of course, we know it'll be at least $3.2 trillion a year, probably a lot more, literally doubling what we spend on health care today. mark: so the price, the expense goes new the roof and the quality goes through the toilet. >> right, exactly. and think about the the expanse if the government takes over the health care system, the department of health and human services is going to have to be expanded greatly which is going to add a lot of money to the cost of -- mark: government. >> -- government. and the fact that they probably won't be able to attract the very best and brightest people that work today in the insurance industry, because these people will become public servants.

mark: now, we've heard it said, but what's the alternative? nobody has an alternative, but there are alternative, aren't there? let's begin this discussion. what are some of the alternatives? >> well, i mean, universal choice can lead to universal coverage. you know, when you have people like nancy pelosi saying we need to, we need to ban short-term limited duration plans which came into being this year, we need to get rid of association health plans where sole proprietors can group together and get better rate because they're a larger group. these people want to cut various choices that are out there. wehe need to -- there are a lotf problems with the american health care system, but there are solutions -- mark: now, i want to pursue this as soon as we return. folks, don't forget, you can join us most weeknights on levin tv, levin tv by signing up at blazetv.com/mark. blazetv.com/mark. or give us a call at 844-levin-tv.

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dollars to purchase health care without being taxed for it. >> right. mark: set up these health savings account accounts just like iras or 401(k)s for our pensions. and you're saying, look, the threason is because of the incentive. we need those incentives when it comes to health care, correct? >> absolutely. putting doctors and patients in charge of their health care, not a state governmentt or the federal government. so we have about 22 million people have health savings can accounts. we should have a lot more because that cost of health care will come down when people can make decisions with their doctor about what the right treatment is. an hsa, you put that money away every month -- mark: not taxed. >> and it can be carried forward every year, but you have to combine it with a high deductible health insurance plan which is good because you want health insurance there for a catastrophic event -- mark mac okay, but here's the point: the burden is taken off the government, off the taxpayers and basically, again, like a pension plan, you know, we have

all kinds of different types of pension plans -- 401(k), iras, roths and so forth -- and what you seem to be saying is we need to beee creative like that whent comes to health care. now, nexto point, insurance competition. why should insurance companies be able to offer all kinds of plans, limited plans, catastrophic plans, plans for college students and so forth and so on? if we would get the mandates and the crushing regulations out of the way, we'd have more competition which would bring down prices. >> absolutely. many -- i've had many people call me and say i'd love to set up my own insurance company. but, you know, with all the mandates, i can't afford to do it. i can't survive. we have -- mark: why should a woman have to pay for a prostate exam? or why should a guy have -- >> invitro e fertilization. gett the kind of plan that suits your needs and those of your family. we don't have that right now because most peoplen have 45-50

mandates on a plan x. then under obamacare, that brought in ten essential healthat care benefits that t have to be provided by a coverage, by an insurance company in an exchange. young people don't want all of these things, and that's why short-term limited duration plans are good. you can get a plan for 12 months, renewable for three years, and there are no essential -- mark: and then people say what if people don't buy their own insurance? i would argue this: okay, we may have to deal with that. but you don't destroy the entire health care system to deal with the exceptions. >> right. i mean, if you look at the republicans lost the house in the 2018 election. i think they lost it because they couldn't talk about pre-existing conditions. the democrats said 120 million people have pre-existing conditions, they'll lose their coverage, they can't afford it. that can't happen under the law. mark: when we come back, what do we do about your ideas on pre-existing conditions? we'll be right back.

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mark: your solutions mark: so your solutions, the solution, are let individuals take more of what they earn and put it aside for their health care, rainy day, whatever it is just like their pension money. that's number one. and the way the government can help there is get out of the way and stop taxing them. >> absolutely. mark: to pay for somebody else. number two, in terms of competition, we could have an explosion of competition of insurance companies, all kinds of policies if the federal government and the states would get out of the way. >> right. mark: so people don't necessarily need a platinum plan. some do, some don't. but i know in my own case, i don't need gynecological care, and i know other people don't need care men would typically

get. and then a third solution would be what? >> well, tort reform is a big part. you know, the cost of medical malpractice in this country is about $210 billion a year -- mark: every year? >> according to pricewaterhousecooperss. doctors do practice defensive medicine because they are afraid of being sued, and so it's very important that we change this and limit punitive damages and non-economic damages. mark: okay. and what about the supply of doctors in the government gets involved in that too, i found out. they control,, in terms of medical schools, really how many doctors can graduate overall in this country. is that true? >> well, that is true. and then now there's a big push saying, you know, medical, studying medicine should be free. that is not going to soft the problem. problem.ve the we want the best and brightest kids to go into medicine, and cover the cost of that education. mark: it seems like most of these problems are government-created. driving up the price of medicine, creating dislocation.

but what about preconditions? pre-existing conditions? >> pre-existing conditions is, i think it was the main issue, and the reason why the republicans lost the house in -- ubmark: how do you address that? >> so we, the people on the left, progressives, said 120 million people have pre-existing conditions. of course, there are different levels of -- mark mark right. i have heart disease versus i broke my toe. >> exactly. there are only 16, 17 million people who have pre-existing conditions in the market. let's take careis of those peop, let's letho the feds put money into state the high-risk pools so that those people could get coverage, and it would take the pressure off of young people who coverage because it'speople who too expensive. they're not going to have a hack or catastrophic -- heart attack or catastrophic coverage. mark: and your point seems to be, look, if we take care of that, that pool of people, let's also address the rest of it. we don't need to destroy the system to take care of six or

seven million people. we don't need to destroy this magnificent health care system in order to accommodate democratic socialists and centralized government. and here's the little secret: nothing's free. if somebody wants to offer you something for free, run fast. >> remember p.j. o'rourke. if you think health care's expensive now, just wait until it's free, because it's not just cost.ree, because it's not just it'sf all of this rationed cowe, waiting lists, doc shortages. thosest are very real costs that -- mark: isn't part of the problem is people don't know what they have until they actually lose are it? and then it's too late? >> right. once you get one of these programs, look at britain, canada -- mark:he they can't get out. >> there's a lot of discontent. but even conservative politicians are afraid to do something about it. mark: eveno conservative politicians in our country today of obamacare.rid sally pipes, it's a great honor. >> thank you, mark. terrific.

mark: thank you very much. appreciate it. don't forget, folks, next week watch us on "life, liberty and levin." .fe ♪ jesse: welcome to watters world, i'm jesse watters. we begin with real news of the week. democrats in the house judiciary committee voting to hold attorney general william barr in contempt of congress for refusing to turn over the full, unredacted mueller report. by the way, they're declaring this a constitutional listen. >> ever wonder what a constitutional crisis looks like? well, open your eyes. >> we are now in a constitutional crisis. >> president trump appears to be heading toward a constitutional crisis. >> i saw this coming and mentioned the constitutional crisis. >> we're hovering on a constitutional crisis. >> we're in a constitutional conflict that's careening toward a crisis.