the north koreans as well as the south koreans fighting along side of us. the cameras are struggling to get into position for what comes next. we think what comes next is the meeting between president trump, president moon and chairman kim of north korea. our next guest, joel rubin, deputy assistant secretary of state under president obama. president trump made comments earlier about how former president obama wanted to meet with kim jong-un and the president said kim refused the invitation. you are giving us some background on that earlier. let's get back into that now. >> sure, jon. back in the context, president obama had offered to meet with

kim there would have been howls from republicans particularly in congress. even the negotiation of the nuclear deal with iran was incredibly negatively received here in washington. president obama spoke with the iranian president by phone, and that was seen as going too far. i'm not sure why president trump feels the need to talk about that in that way and compare what he's doing. you can talk about the policy. but the idea that didn't happen but it would have been completely rejected. jon: what can this president achieve by shaking hand with kim jong-un at the border? >> it's an historic moment to

meet. a breaking that mental block, going and reaching out. that is a significant step. this president, he is not always on top of his game when it comes to diplomacy. iran is a juxtaposition. but with north korea, by showing he's leaning in very far, that will build him equity internationally for his approach. and it puts his team on notice. in the last summit john bolton essentially undercut the president's negotiation. and the president is saying here after a week and a half, two weeks after rejecting military action against iran web's willing to meet face to face on the dmz with one. that's a strong signal. what he does with that.

we don't have to get everything at once. but there need to be a path that's clear and constructive and reliable. if he can turn that into this path then he has a real win on his hand. if he doesn't, he'll see high expectations collapse quickly. international affairs. it's not historically in one direction. it could be good one day and flip on a moment's notice. we can't take this for granted. this pause in rhetoric will last yore ever. jon: the president is heading to meet with some american troops in a dining hall at the demilitarized zone. among the things he said, he was talking about the positive things that happened in our relationship with north korea. he said we are getting back our remains of fallen soldiers and troops from the korean war in

the 1950 and we got our hostages released and there has been no nuclear testing. those are things worth bragging about. >> they are valuable. there are not shattering. it's not as if we haven't had period like this in the past with a pause in testing or return of remains. but the context matters. what's didn't this time is you have the president engage in a diplomatic initiative and talking to the leader of north korea. the gains maybe don't outshine previous gains, but the context is different and better. what people in washington who watch north korea closely are really hoping for is a serious process. i hate to go back to the word process. but it's what's been missing in

this negotiation. meetings are good. but they are only good if they are used to leverage an end state. typically they will meet at the lower level and the leader will go and sign something. president trump flipped that on his head. he need to be sure there are negotiators that get us to an end game that gets us denuclearization and peace. jon: for years and decade, the conventional wisdom has been if you want to solve the north korean problem you have to get china to do it. president trump seems to be bipassing xi sending out a tweet saying hey, kim, let's have a handshake. >> he's telling china they don't control the policy. you have to go through china at

some level. they have a significant influence on north korea. they have deep economic ties. they are a critical player. but president trump is saying he can go his own way, too. what's intrigue being this, is he trying to pull north korea closer into our orbit and away from china's orbit? the unpredictability can benefit president trump. but he has to make sure he's learning this for a concrete program. that's where there is real gain. jon: the notion that this is a handshake and nothing more. that would be a waste of effort in your view. >> i think it would burst the bubble and that would be dangerous. expectation raising can be a sugar high. but when it doesn't follow on,

we have seen it in diplomatic initiatives. think of the israeli-palestinian negotiations. they got close, it failed and then there was violence. this is a high. but if there is no follow through, the high could lead to dissolution and that could be dangerous. jon: we are look at video of president moon at the border. president moon in the news conference called president trump the peacemaker on the korean peninsula. those two men have had their differences. but when you start a news conference calling your counterpart the peace maker, that's significant praise. >> i think he figured out president trump. president trump said it clearly he like people to be nice to him and he doesn't like the critics.

this is a smart move by president moon to keep president trump moving in the right direction showing him he believes trump has what it takes to get this done. that's a smart maneuver. jon: we all like people to be nice to us. >> yes, we do. jon: joel, thank you. joining us from seoul, south korea, with john roberts. it's a little after 3:00 in the afternoon in south korea. a lot can come out of this historic meeting at the dmz and what it can mean for future u.s.-north korea relations. reporter: the president went to the observation post which is a few hundred yard away from the peace house. we have seen the famous pictures of the blue buildings where officials from north and south

korea could get together to discuss cross border issues. that is where president trump and kim jong-un and moon jae-in will meet. it's where all of the american presidents go when they go to visit the dmz. most of american presidents pick up a pair of binoculars and look across the dmz. president trump chose not to on this particular visit. but where he's going now is the dining facility where he's going to meet with some of the service members who are posted along the demilitarized zone. both american and south korean soldier. you will use relic collected over the years, then he'll travel to the area where the

peace house is to meet with kim jong-un. in terms of what might come out of it other than the president getting to see the dmz is maybe some relationship building. if there is nothing tangible that comes out of it in terms of agreement from kim jong-un to restart the lower level talks, perhaps confidence building so that kim jong-un comes away from this meeting in a better frame of mind than he came out of hanoi. i think he came out of there feeling humiliate. some of the people around him may have suffered because of that if the reports out of south korea are true. but the president and president moon together. saying let's talk about this. if we can get north korea to start down the road making good on what kim promised president trump during that singapore summit in june of 2017, the

complete verifiable denuclearization of the korean peninsula. then maybe today's meeting might turn into something more significant than that. jon: this is a chance for president trump to lift up his north korean count are part and say we can get -- counterpart and say we can get something done. but it take a lot of hard work. reporter: president trump smacked down kim pretty hard in hanoi. kim jong-un thought i will give you a little bit here. i am shutter the yongbyon nuclear facility in exchange for sakes being lifted. president trump said that's not going to happen. we need this this this and this.

kimberly: said that's not what i am talking about, thebt president said then we have nothing to talk about. the president came out and said sometimes no deal is better than a bad deal. he thought he had a bad deal so he came away with no deal. maybe this will be a single step along the way to get a better deal out of kim jong-un than he had before. we are continuing to watch president trump as he makes this historic visit to the demilitarized zone dividing the two koreas. we expect he'll be shaking hand with the north korean leader kim jong-un me me -- momentarily. ♪

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it's interesting to me, this meeting apparently was arranged sort of at the whim of the president. normally these things involve lots of back and forth with the state department and the cia gets involved and whether it's a good idea. take us inside some of those discussions. what do you suppose the rest of official washington is saying about the idea of president trump meeting with kim jong-un at the dmz? >> let me start with what's so striking to me. president trump planned on visiting the demilitarized zone in november of 2017 and was unable to do so because of fog. that was after the president's statements, strong ones about bringing fire and fury on north korea. that caused some angst i think

in our diplomatic circles. the visit was designed to show the strength of our alliance with south korea. now fast forward to 2019, less than two years later and the president has scene outstretched hand to kim jong-un. it's quite a monumental change. and it's important to reflect on what has happened in the course of this administration. as far as the interpret deliberations for sure, they have been ongoing. this is something the president has been thinking about and he would receive input from his key advisors in the intelligence community, second tear question pompeo and ambassador john bolton. but this is a visit the president has been thinking about for a long time. jon: maybe the president has under sold this one. he'll say it will be a

handshake, maybe he'll come and maybe he won't. kind of interesting the way he's handling this particular meeting. let me interrupt myself and say these are live pictures of the president arriving in the depac, the dining facility at the dmz where american troops take their meals. the forces there giving the president a warm welcome. he'll shake some hands. these are photos that will probably go up on a lot of walls. there are some of the south korean forces assembled as well. let's listen to see if we hear these two presidents saying anything. [speaking korean] >> [through the interpreter] i

want to thank you for your efforts. you are safeguarding peace and freedom of the republic of korea. [speaking korean] >> [through the interpreter] this is the first time in history the president of south korea and the president of the united states have visited the demilitarized zone? in history. and we have a more drama it i can event that awaits us. and i would like to thank president trump for making such a bold decision.

[speaking korean] >> [through the interpreter] now the joint security area has been transformed from a symbol of confrontation and hostilities to a symbol of peace. and all of you are witnesses to this change. and the very person who has actually brought this great change about is president trump. he is the president of all of you. county require wanyou. president trump: i want to thank you very much. we really appreciate it have

much. [speaking korean] president trump: so this was a scheduled visit from a number of months ago. we went from the g20, and i promised your president, president moon, i said we have to see the dmz. then yesterday i had the idea, maybe i will call chairman kim and see if he wants to say hello. we didn't give him much notice. but eye we respect each south -- but we respect each other. maybe we like each other. he agreed to meet. i will meet him in about four minutes. i will cut my speech a little bit short other than to say you are terrific people and we are with you all the way. [speaking korean]

>> we have a small token of appreciation in recognition of your visit. so we have a small evening to of appreciation. everyone knows you are a golfer. and there are some golfers in the room. so we are hopeful, we are hoping

this one is one that for your golf course. it's got your name stenciled on there. it's got your united nations command a u.s. forces korea. and the most of important thing. our motto is we go together. so we'll hope when you wear this on the golf course you will think about the enduring nature of our alliance. thank you very much. president trump thank you.

>> you can shake a couple hand of some of our heroes.

jon: president trump in the dining facility on the demilitarized zone between north and south korea. he's meeting with some of the u.s. and south korean troops based in that uneasy area keeping the peace and trying to keep hostilities from the 1950s from recurring. we heard the president say he'll be meeting with kim jong-un in four minutes as he signs one of the bricks on the wall with that distinctive and famous signature. he said he would be meeting chairman kim in four minutes and that was four minutes ago. gordon chang is with us again. what do you think of the theater

of this presidential meeting? >> one of the most of important things, you just heard them talk about that motto, we go together, the united states and south korea. this is the alliance they say is forged in blood because it has deterred the north koreans. clearly there are problems in the alliance. but this is a successful model of what two nations can do together when they work. jon: it doesn't hurt for president moon to say to the president trump saying i would like to thank president trump for making such a bold decision, meaning making the decision to have handshake with chairman kim. >> not only is he trying to play to president trump's ego, the more important thing is moon understands the united states is

the essential nation in all of this. the north koreans don't want to talk to the south koreans. what we saw two days ago was north korea propaganda go after seoul saying get out of the way. we north korea want to talk to president trump. moon understands he has a limited role. he brought the two together. but after that there is very little the south koreans can do to push this peace process forward. jon: when president trump says he has talked to chairman kim about the economic miracle that could occur in north korea. when he points to the miracle in south korea, is that effective for kim jong-un? >> i think kim jong-un doesn't want that. we have seen the policy of the kim family is not to have -- --t

to have prosperity in the north. the kim family is extremely jealous. what this does, president trump's video, it talks to the north korean people saying look this is what you can have, thand that is very effective in putting kim jong-un in a difficult position. i am sure that's part of the process of thought in the state department and national security council when they thought of the idea of this video. it's talking to regime elements in pyongyang saying we americans can give you a much better future. jon: john roberts has been telling us the consensus view is kim jong-un was embarrassed by what happened in vietnam. he thought he was bringing something to the table. president trump stood up and walked away.

now president trump is going back to him saying have a handshake. interesting psychology at work there. >> i think one where was embarrassed. there are a number of reports essentially that senior north korean officials were punished. there was a report that five of them were executed and some put into detention. so clearly kim jong-un went after his senior officials to blame them for what he perceived to be the failure of hanoi at the end of february. so president trump is in a pretty good position. he can put kim and himself in a little bit of jeopardy by walking out of another meeting. jon: you have been to the dmz. tell us what it feels like to be

at that spot. >> you know so many americans and so many others of our allies in the u.n. command lost their lives protecting south korea. so you get the sense of danger and the tense of how important this has been. and you have got to remember there are probably somewhere 300, maybe 400 south koreans still held by north korea. the united states probably has not got and full accounting of the americans detained during the korean war. some of them could be alive. there is evidence a number of americans were kept in captivity and you get a feeling of how important all of this is as you stand at the dmz. jon: you have to think what the

family of otto warmbier is thinking as they watch president trump shake hands with the leader of the regime that killed their son. >> kim jong-un would know about the fate of every american in north korea. so he knew exactly what was happening to otto warmbier who was murdered in a sense because he was so brutalized that he died just a few days after arriving back in the united states. so this is a reminder to us that north korea is the most of horrific regime on earth. it's the nature of the kim family regime that has been this eye way. it doesn't reform itself because it can't. jon: joining us, pulitzer prize winning journalist, judith miller. judith, you have to wonder whether some of the folks, some

of the families of those american service people are getting to see their sons and daughters on this nationwide television feed as they shake hands and chat a little bit with the president in the dierchg facility at the demilitarized zone. >> it's a great moment for them. i visited during our trips to south korea. there are 30,000 american troops stationed in south korea. they are the lifeline and security guarantee. they are the men and women defending us and solidifying the alliance. i think it's very appropriate the president stopped in to see them. he was given a warm reception. i'm surprised they gave him a

t-shirt. i was sure they would give him the dmz tee to hold this golf balls. one of the problems we have had between us and the south koreans has beanlt of money spent. donald trump wanted a 50% increase in aid from the south koreans to support our troops. what he ended up with was 8. but these men and women represent the flesh and blood proof of this alliance, the guarantee of south korea's security. one can note overstate their importance. i'm delighted the president took the time. jon: the moment we are all sort of waiting for is apparently

just ahead. we understand kim jong-un is waiting on the other side of the dmz and he and president trump will shake hands. there may be a three-way handshake with president moon. when you think about this relationship and how it has veered and weaved. there were icbm launches that landed in the water not far from guam, an american territory. north korea has warranted the world's attention and has gotten it. now there will be this handshake between president trump and chairman kim. it's's kind of an extraordinary

history. >> it's stunning, on. from calling him little rocket man to exchanging love letters saying the two of them had fallen in love. it's certainly unorthodoxed. jon: gordon, the little rocket man reference, those were pretty strong in the early months of the trump administration. what did that -- as much or as little as we know about kim jong-un and how this mind works, what did that kind of language do to him and do to the relationship? >> we look at it and say this language is so corrosive and dangerous, but people on the ground in asia realize that moscow, beijing, seoul, move

their positions much closer to those of the united states because they were worried about what president trump would do. this was extremely effective diplomacy. when you look back at that period, i think no american president has had a more successful north korea policy than president trump. at least through may of last year. through may of last year. north koreans were make paul the concessions, we were making month concessions. then the president said i am going to try to create this if i everrable atmosphere for north korea. since that time they have not been precip pro catering president trump's gestures. trump can actually change the conversation and go back to that more hostile sounding policy. but it was an effective policy. jon: does it suggest making concessions to north korea isn't worth it? >> no country has ever even tied

the north koreans into good behavior. and that includes the see yet and china. we think if we are friendly to another country like north korea, they will reciprocate. the kim family is great at not reciprocating gestures. so we have to deal with that in a much different way. a way we don't want to. but we'll have to change and go back to president trump's earlier and effective policy. jon: we are coming up on 2:40 in the morning. i'm guessing the deadline for the papers, these are life pictures when we approach that moment when president trump shakes hand with kim jong-un at

the dmz. i am sure the papers would like to get the handshake on their front pages. but what about the coverage? what do you expect the headline will be from this moment in the dmz? >> i hope it will just be the event itself. the historic hand shake. this moment in which there is at least the possibility to unfreeze what has how since hanoi a fairly frozen relationship at the working level. we don't know if north korea will ever be willing to denuclearize. we haven't heard a word since that demand was first made. i think donald trump himself has become more realistic about the possibility.

but he demonstrated he's willing to remain firm on sanctions. if this handshake can resume the process of working-level talks. we'll have come a step further in reestablishing the process. i know people are border with that word. they think it's a washington word it's everything in arms control and it's certainly better than war which is the direction we were headed only two years ago. jon: joining us now, former intelligence officer, john jordan, an economist at stanford's hoover institute. what do you think about the idea that north korea's economy is in shambles, has been for decade. can you lure them out of their eyes laying with economic

promises? >> possibly. their economy hasn't been in the same state it is now for the last few decades. it's in a very different condition and that's creating pressure below and inside the north korean party. so can trump through stick and carrot and through creating the perception inside north korea that he's willing to give the north korean regime a way out, a path to prosperity and security which is in contrast to what happened with the obama administration and qaddafi. that remains to be seen, but that's what they are trying to do. jon: if trump says i am not looking to knock you out of power. you can remain as chairman. i just want to get a deal done that takes away your nukes. is that something you would think kim jong-un would be receptive to? >> possibly. but it's not just kim jong-un he

has to convince. and that's what the western meet yeah is missing. he -- the western media is missing. he has to convince the party cadre. jon: you are getting nods of agreement from gordon chang. he seems to balk up on that. >> we talk about north korea as a one-man regime it has the workers party, the military and various security services. it's a balancing act on the part of kim jong-un. he needs to keep that support in balance. this is a difficult thing for him to run. he killed a lot of people when he took over after the death of his father. including his half brother and including his uncle more significantly.

but this is a very dissuasion for kim. and trump understands that. and i'm sure kim is looking at this saying he has a deal with president trump. he has a deal with moon, he has a deal with xi jinping. and he has an important con skirt wentsy at -- an important constituents i at home. if he gets the handshake, what does it do for him? do the military leadership in north korea look at that and say wow, our leader is really something? >> it bolsters kim's position in the regime. when a chinese leader comes to the u.s., this whole issue will be the photographs they take back to china.

it's the same thing with north korea. especially if president trump steps over the military demarcation line. if president trump first steps over that line into north korea before kim goes into south korea, that will be given wide play throughout all of north korea. they will say we forced the americans to visit us before we visit them. jon: it may be fake news but it's effective from the standpoint of kim jong-un. >> when the international community gives aid to north korea. north korea spins that as tribute that the international community is paid to the great kim family. everything is shown as north korea being strong and the rest of the world beg for north korea's goodwill. jon: which may explain why they

don't want modernization because that will put' an end to the lie of the propaganda they have been feeding their people. >> they make sure that foreign influences are not disseminated through north korean society it's an important process to seal off the outside world. here comes the president at the demilitarized zone. we can only expect momentarily we'll see kim jong-un and thehand handshake between the two leaders. cameras are whirring and click. let's listen to what else we might pick up.

they is. kim jong-un walking to meet president trump. that is the dmz. >> i didn't expect to meet you at this place. [inaudible]

jon: you are watching history as an american president for the first time steps into north korea. you can heart assembled press angry about the photographers getting in their way. but there you see, president trump and kim jong-un, the chairman of the party in north korea standing on north korean soil. it is something that, well, surprises a great many observers and something they never thought they would see.

now her comes kim jong-un on to south korean soil. these presidential visits are usually so scripted and so planned in advance and perhaps this one came about so suddenly all from a tweet from president trump yesterday. you can see that the handlers who are trying to keep the press corp ralled are having a -- the press corresponthepress corallea difficult time. chairman kim is joining president trump in south korea.

>> the president just walked across the demarcation line. that made him the first president. look at this, this an expression of his willingness to eliminate all the unfortunate past and open a new future. president trump: i just want to say this is my honor. i didn't really expect it. we were in japan for the g20. i said i'm over here. i want to call chairman kim. we got to meet. stepping across that line was a

great honor. a lot of progress has been made. i want to thank you, that was very quick notice and i want to thank you. [speaking korean] president trump: a lot of really positive things are happening. i'm glad you could be here to see it. tremendous positive. great things are happening in a lot of places. but we met and we liked each other from day one and that was very important. [speaking korean] county thank

you, everybody. jon: behind that scrum photographers, you can see the president of south korea, moon jae-in shake hands with his north korean count are part, kim jong-un. two nations once one separated

by decades of animosity and acrimony. a handshake between the two leaders with the most of powerful man in the world, the president of the united states standing there watching over it all. it could change some things. you are watching history in the making live. 3:52 on a sunday afternoon in the demilitarized zone between the two koreas. president trump: it's a great day for the world. and it's an honor for me to be here. thank you both. jon: he's out of screen, but you

will catch a glimpse of him as the camera pulls back. tucker carlson is standing about five feet from president trump. we'll be hearing more from him, i'm sure. president trump: i have to say when i first became president of the united states there was great conflict in this area. great, great conflict. now we have just the opposite. it's my honor and the chairman's honor. we work well together. mr. president, thank you.

onrequire appears the three leaders head into a building on the south korean side of the border. let's check in once again with john roberts, our chief white house correspondent who is in seoul, south korea. you have seen the pictures and video, john. just give us your thoughts. reporter: we saw history making and utterly chaotic. you saw the security forces, a joint combination of u.s. secret service, south korean security for moon jae-in and kim jong-un. i saw them in action in hanoi and they do not fool around. they were all making sure the person they were charged with protecting was protected. we saw the president walk up to

the concrete slab that is the line of demarcation to step over into north korea and step back across with kim jong-un. now all three of them have gone into freedom house. there are two big buildings on the south korean side. they went into freedom house which is interesting. president trump talked about this in the lead-up saying this will not be much more than a handshake. the fact that they have now gone into freedom house means they may be engaging in some sort of extended discussion. and this could potentially be nothing. it could potentially be a promising development. there you see president trump stepping across that 18-inch slab of concrete into north korea. that is truly an historic event. the fact they are in freedom

house could be significant. maybe they will get involved in discussions. president trump and moon jae-in are together on this with a united front. south korea has been trying hard to engage with north korea. moon jae-in said it was the first time that a south korean president and american president had been together at the dmz as a united front that could have moved kim jong-un down the road in terms of convincing him that he has to get rid of his entire nuclear weapons program and chemical and biological weapons as well, which is the demand president trump made during the hanoi summit. we'll see where this goes in the next few minutes. but the scene of extraordinary chaos. the reason the two leaders are there, to talk to each other and

tell the world as they are standing there together. the security people shoved the cameras away and surrounded them not allowing us to get the pictures they wanted us to see. you can understand the unprecedented nature of this. their heartbeats were probably pegged at 185 beats per minute making sure nothing happened to their person on their watch. jon: the north koreans have been fed a steady diet of hatred. those encounters between the south and for korean security forces and secret services. those were fraught with tension.

reporter: i it looks like we are inside freedom house now. you see the flags aligned in the background. i don't know if they are there all the time. this has been planned. let's watch this. [speaking korean] korean.

r r r r r r ha rean. . >> translator: speaking in