smitty. >> sandra: oh! if i haven't learned that by no now, william hemmer! [laughs] ohio does produce good people. thank you for starting your week with us, everybody pray will be back here tomorrow. "outnumbered" starts now. >> melissa: fox news alert, attorney general bill barr saying there were "serious irregularities" at the jail where jeffrey epstein died while in federal custody. this, as the justice department want is an investigation and we with the autopsy results for the disgraced multimillionaire. this is "outnumbered." i'm melissa francis. here today, host of "kennedy" on the fox business network, kennedy. fox news correspondent, back on the couch, gillian turner. happy to see you! former ohio senate democratic minority leader, capri cafaro. joining us on the couch, guy benson. fox news contributor and host of the guy benson radio show. thanks for all of you guys being here. happy monday.

suicide watch on july, but that status was recently lifted. a resource telling fox news that epstein was not checked for several hours leading up to his death saturday morning. this, despite clear protocol requiring prison guards to check on him every half hour. the source also sang epstein did not have a cellmate at the time of his death, which is also unusual. a short time ago, attorney general william barr again doubling down and vowing a full justice department investigation. listen. >> i was appalled. indeed, the whole department was. frankly, angry. to learn of their failure to adequately secure this prisoner. we are now learning of serious irregularities at this facility that are deeply concerning, and demand a thorough investigation. this case will continue on against anyone who is complicit

with epstein. >> melissa: in the meantime, the concern is bipartisan. 2020 candidate and new york city mayor bill de blasio was also pushing for answers. >> first of all, must be fully investigated. this just doesn't make sense. this is a guy who was as high-profile as can be. had either been assaulted or attempted suicide previously. there's no way it makes sense that he was left alone. i'm not a conspiracy theorist, but something is way too convenient here. we need to get down to the bottom of what happened. >> melissa: president trump retreating a post this week and suggesting the clintons maybe linked to epstein's death. white house counsel or kellyanne conway defending the retreat on "fox news sunday" ." >> i think the president wants everything to be investigated. trying to connect the president to this monster from years ago, where they are seen dancing in a video, versus other people who

were actively, i suppose, flying around with this monster on his island, which is known as pedophilia island. perhaps there is a public trust in knowing that. again, >> melissa: guy, setting conspiracy theories aside for a moment, this maybe the first time i agree with bill de blasio. there is something about this that doesn't make sense. you have a prisoner who is so high-profile. i understand the idea that they are saying people are working overtime, the facility isn't staffed properly. whatever it is, the excuses they are making, it's shocking that somebody so high-profile, so essential to cases going forward, how could this happen? v6 there's probably quite a lot of dirt on powerful and rich people. i find myself in rear agreement with aoc, was also looking for answers on this. when the entire political spectrum is uniting around this

issue, i think it tells us something. i'm not sure we should call conspiracy theories and put those terms" and sort of sniff at it in this particular case. i think the official story, whatever that might turn out to be, is highly suspicious at this particular moment. whether this was some sort of hit on this guy, whether he paid someone off to have the guards look the other way so he could kill himself, the best-case scenario is gross incompetence. that is the best-case scenario. when i woke up to this news over the weekend, one of my first thoughts was, "this is another body blow to the american public's waning confidence in our institutions. with the federal government cannot even keep this very important witness alive after a suicide attempt or an apparent attack on him in prison. and this is allowed to happen?" i almost want to crack out my

own tinfoil hat and put it on. it's hard to see this as above board. >> gillian: and to think, el chapo was apparently held there held there. >> kennedy: longer than that! >> gillian: they transferred him at some point. >> kennedy: they transferred him daily to brooklyn for trial, but that's where he was being held. this is a very high-security facility. they also know that just is paperwork alone, what a hassle that would be. think about what has to happen for someone as high-profile as jeffrey epstein, and for a 2000-page document to come out the day before, he's all of the sudden dead in his cell. if you try to take his own life, that meant he was suicidal. you are not all of the sudden unsuicidal after couple weeks. that means a psychologist and aa jail warden both would have had to take him off suicide watch. you wouldn't do that with someone this high-profile, with that much money and with this many people that could be implicated in an investigation

like this. either he went to them and said, "hey, i didn't kill myself, i was never suicidal." if that's the case, he needs more surveillance and coverage. not less. >> melissa: that's one of the big points, who knew that he was taken off suicide watch? who agreed to that? there's also -- i think the collective outrageous about the fact that all these crimes, alleged crimes, were allowed to fester for so long that the american people want to know, how is it possible this was going on in plain sight for so long? who was involved in allowing that to continue? and you feel like we know less now because of this death. >> gillian: kellyanne conway spoke to this yesterday on the sunday shows. one thing she said, his death doesn't mean that justice is no longer going to be sought. that this puts an end -- >> melissa: it makes it

harder, though. >> gillian: interestingly enough, i've spoken to law enforcement sources that say that's true. it makes the bar a lot higher. things are a lot more difficult. but the hope is that this may offer incentive to more victims, more witnesses, to add more impetus to them coming forward and sharing their stories to try and help keep the case alive going forward. so there -- >> capri: there are two different issues here. one, justice for the victims. there are obviously a number of them, and hopefully justice will be served. we talked on the show previously about how many people were complicit in allowing this to continue. the other issue here, though, is the fact that we've talked about this sky -- jeffrey epstein, we talked about him as "high-profile, high-profile." if it takes this to highlight the shortcomings of the system -- 2014 is the last group of staff that came out on this because that affirmative justice

has not done this since 2016. this is a more of an issue in federal than state prisons. the deaths in 2014, many were due to suicide. this is something that obviously, within the correction system, both at the state and federal level, you need to be addressed when it comes to monitoring on mental health. i know the state of texas has looked into that and actually passed laws in regard to how they deal with suicide watch and interventions on behalf of mental health and addiction for those who might be on suicide watch. as far as i'm concerned, if a guy did commit suicide, it's one of the most cowardly things possible. no different then ariel castro, who victimizes women and kept them in his house for 30 years. in cleveland. we don't know what the truth is behind all of this but let's hope there is some assets for these victims. >> gillian: kennedy made a good point about who knew and who could be potentially complicit in his suicide. it made me think of something

else the law enforcers told me, which is that he put -- he or she, they put the onus more with the chief prison warden rather than the chief prison psychiatrist, even though it was the chief psychiatrist who recommended jeffrey be taken off of suicide watch. he said that in these kinds of cases the psychiatrist has more of an interest and worry very stake in the well-being of the individual, as opposed to the public good and the public interest in these cases. that really -- >> kennedy: but that combined effort, and the fact they may take -- they may survey his behavior, and his risk of status slightly differently, that's even more reason to make sure tt he is under constant surveillance. capri, you're absolutely right. it's about the victims here. it's about the fact that you had young women, girls as young as 14 years old, being systematically abused in at least three different locations.

possibly four. new mexico, the island in the bahamas, his mansion in manhattan, and his florida mansion. he essentially had jr. pimps at madams procuring these women, who didn't realize they were abused until years later. they think they're going to to get their lives on track, get closure and justice, and that feels like that's not going to happen. the only thing sure to mitigate that was a conspiracy charge. and that means there were other people involved. and hopefully they will look at that. young women this age, they are not -- >> capri: they can seize his assets, too. apparently there is asset forfeiture aspects to all of this, where they can sell his homes and the proceeds that are collected. i don't know how that would potentially be for the victims, too. >> melissa: it wasn't nfl players this time. two other american athletes staging protests during the national anthem of the world stage. they may pay a price for it. plus, the administration announcing tighter restrictions for those seeking u.s.

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>> the benefit to taxpayers is a long term benefit of seeking to ensure that our immigration system is bringing people to join us as american citizens, as legal permanent residents, first. who can stand on their own two feet. who will not be reliant on the welfare system, especially in the age of the modern welfare state, which is so expansive and

expensive, frankly. >> kennedy: sounds like milton friedman, thus acting director of u.s. citizenship and immigration services, ken cuccinelli, announcing new restrictions that could deny green cards to immigrants who are deemed likely to need public assistance. the administration arguing that people who want to become u.s. citizens should not be a burden on taxpayers. meanwhile, i.c.e. pushing back against criticism over last week's massive immigration enforcement operation in mississippi. i.c.e. agents detained nearly 700 individuals believed to be living and working in the country illegally. and the ap reporting that feds found six of the seven plants rated were willfully employing illegal immigrants. over the weekend, 2020 candidate and senator kamala harris accusing the president of terrorizing immigrant families. watch. speak out this has directed dhs to conduct these raids as part is what i believe is this administration's campaign of terror. which is to make the whole

population afraid to go to work. children are afraid to go to school, for fear that when they come home their parents won't be there. >> kennedy: is there any way of taking this issue apart with a little less emotion and a little bit more reason? >> guy: there is, but our political class does not seem interested in that sort of rationality. when you have presidential candidates and senators like kamala harris talking this up as being a reign of terror, i think that's absurd. we saw last week, plastered all over the news, these crying children in mississippi whose parents had been arrested. all of them got released pending a court in a few hours. that took your heartstrings paid know no one likes a frightened child. to deport people at a faster clip than the job in this region has, which is sort of counterintuitive, but that's at the data >> kennedy: that's true, he was called the deport or in chief.

>> guy: there were examples of families being separated like this during the exercises done by i.c.e. we don't have the media treating this way or the democratic party, because he feels there's a broader narrative to serve and it's not necessarily one of solutions or one in terms of following the facts. >> kennedy: but there's a difference of people being allowed into the country and granting citizenship. it is subject is obviously the most sacred prize for people who are seeking to work and live here. is he of administration justifying making that a little bit more difficult? and creating a different incentive for people to achieve this? >> capri: i think with sesame about this issue in particular is the fact that when you are going after people with a green card, illegal immigration -- i think there are about 12.6 12.6 million peoplee

united states or green holders. there are legal residents of the united states. they have to pay taxes like anybody else that is a citizen here. the fact they are almost being presented as if they are leeching off of the taxpayer system is erroneous, because these are individuals that are actually paying taxes into the system. also, the everything -- >> melissa: then they won't have problems qualifying. >> capri: they would. here's why. they are essentially saying that even if you are working, and even if you are here as a green card holder, what will happen is you have a lesser likelihood that you will be approved for a green card. either a renewal or a new green card, if you are more likely to be on public assistance of any sort. also, let's not forget we have more stringent work requirements on things like food stamps and the trump administration is tightening up on that, too. let's not forget that it was a democratic president in president bill clinton that

basically did welfare reform, too. >> melissa: before we say how outrageous it is, if you look at even journey me -- >> kennedy: i agree with the immigration but i haven't found the average in that. go ahead. >> melissa: if you look at germany, that they are bracing this culture of welcoming, that's what they're calling it. like us, they need workers and are desperate for people to come in. even they have requirements. you have to prove your financial stability and that you are not taking government services. you have to have health insurance. you have to have bought health insurance in germany for yourself. and you have to speak german. this is a country where they are held up as the most welcoming, almost to a fault, of bringing people in -- >> gillian: my husband has german citizenship. his passport is about to expire. in order to renew his passport he's going to have to do a language exam at the german embassy. so he's going to have to prove he speaks german just to get his passport renewed. on this issue, though -- if you are surprised the trump

administration wants to raise the bar and make it harder for immigrants in this country to access public goods and public services, you've been hiding under a rock for two years. we've been talking about this literally for two years. >> capri: no question, this is not a surprise at all. i'm not remotely surprised. my issue is that these individuals, we need to make it easier for people to be here legally. >> gillian: but there's a difference -- >> capri: this is not address the issue of comfort symbol comfortable, asylum-seekers. they would be exempt. they are the problem we have at the border. if you're going to exempt -- >> kennedy: you have to make ten different fixes that means there won't be any comprehensive reform. there's a difference between people who come here and work seasonally, and people who work here and don't intend to live here permanently. and those who are seeking -- >> capri: but those people still pay taxes. >> guy: oh two illegal immigrants paid a lot of illegal immigrants pay taxes. >> gillian: there's nothing in

this rule that makes asylum-seekers and grantees in this country to access those public services. >> capri: my point is that if we are concerned about the sim laws being to be, why aren't they being addressed in this context? do you -- >> melissa: >> kennedy: you have that separately. you have to you can have people come to this country, and you can have e of them come in if you have less of a welfare state. that is just practical. you can't open the floodgates -- >> capri: we don't have an expense of a welfare state as what's being presented. as someone who served and took these constituent calls day in and day out for a decade -- >> melissa: we are hugely into it because of our welfare state. you can't say we don't have welfare state. >> kennedy: tell me about that nondiscretionary spending and who's going to cut that down? >> capri: no one is willing to touch it. >> kennedy: because it's so guy gigantic. how can you say we don't have a welfare state connects to have

because social security and medicare are paid into -- >> melissa: one at a time and we have to go. >> capri: they are paid into by people who work. things like food stamps are more of a "welfare state" thing and there are work requirements on those things. same thing with medicare and medicaid. >> kennedy: so why are you not outraged by that but upset that over 36 months -- >> capri: they pay into the system. that's all i'm saying. >> kennedy: a lot of people pay in the system and they don't get everything done like anything because there is so much government. universal pictures canceling the release of a controversial new movie that shows wealthy americans hunting so-called "deplorables." for support. more on the studio's decision, plus some on both sides of the aisle defending president trump as 2020 democrats double down on their criticism after recent mass shootings. now some of the president's critics appear to be driving a backlash against themselves. that's coming up in a moment. >> do you think it's racist to vote for president trump in

2020? >> i think it's really hard. after everything that we've seen from his time as a candidate in 2016 to his repeated warnings of invasions. ♪

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being gracious here -- he had nothing to do with the person who shot up the bar in dayton. the president of the united states should not be blamed for these individual killers. >> melissa: the president's 2020 opponents are not backing down, stepping up their claims the president is racist and worse. earlier, former congressman beto o'rourke referencing the deadly clash between white nationalists and protesters in charlottesville, tweeting, "two years ago, neo-nazis marched in charlottesville and killed a woman named heather. this violence has metastasized from pittsburgh to el paso, and the violence will continue until we defeat this hatred and the man endorsing these "very fine people" from the oval office." meantime, president trump attending two new york fund-raisers on friday, including one hosted by billionaire stephen ross.

critics culture boycotts of businesses affiliated with ross, and rnc chair ronna mcdaniel later tweeting, "thanks to the unhinged mob on the left, president trump raised $12 million today. 2 million more than originally expected." the support for a president is unprecedented and growing." let me ask the democrat, do you think democrats are going too far and that it does have the chance of backfiring? >> capri: i think democrats are making a calculation that somehow painting president trump as racist and to blame for absolutely everything is going to fire up their base. it may work at a primary, but i said this before and i will say it again -- when he basically called president trump a racist and the new tried to get his supporters to vote for you, that's hard to do. you are essentially insinuating that they, too, are racist somehow for supporting president trump. >> guy: or if you are beto o'rourke you actually say it. we played the clip when he was asked that very question, "it is

a racist act essentially to support president trump? to vote for president trump?" beto thought about it for a while and effectively said yes, based on terms rhetorical record. that's not going to win over many converts in some states they are hoping to win back. >> capri: like wisconsin, where it was wet, a 12,000 vote difference? you need to get these people back into the fray and attract them through fear but through ideas. what you're going to do for them. but nobody is talking about policy. >> gillian: the problem this week is that the narrative went from, "if you support president trump you are a racist," to an even further extreme. which was, "if you don't label president trump a racist, then you, too, are by extension a racist." if you keep upping the ante in that manner for political purposes, is ultimately going to backfire. they were just quickly on biden and trump and the rhetoric. an interesting thing happened earlier this week when the president was in dayton and

accidentally called the city of toledo. most folks in the mainstream media, including journalists, really kind of spent the rest of the day doubling down and trying to make the claim that not only was that an insensitive comment, because he is the commander-in-chief and he should know everything about the victims he is consoling, but that was actually racist as well. and you saw when vice president biden the other day said that he was the vice president during the parkland shootings, by way of an expo nation his campaign issued a statement that said, "actually, the vice president was thinking of the sandy hook shootings." everybody stepped back and went, "okay, we get it." but it's the same problem. it's the same issue. if you are going to hold president trump accountable need to hold -- >> kennedy: he also said, vice president biden, that the shootings took place in houston and michigan. >> melissa: neither place neither was right. >> kennedy: you don't want to freestyle.

i'm still waiting to hear great ideas. how are you going to make life better for me and for my family? what choices will have in the future under your leadership? beto o'rourke and tim ryan going in front of cameras and swearing and trying to sound tough, really trying to benefit off of tragedy, not only do i think it's disgusting and completely self-serving, it's also incredibly insensitive. and good for donna brazile. i don't think it's right to pin the blame and pin causation on one person. whether it's the president or presidential candidates. i think that really takes away from -- >> capri: there's a whole cauldron of things that are contributed factors. >> gillian: president trump really has a golden political opportunity right now, in that sense. in the aftermath of this horrible tragedy, it seems like there are certain folks that have been rigid for a long time on both sides of the aisle, that have a little bit of maneuvering room.

>> melissa: in terms of gun control. >> gillian: in terms of gun control, in terms of the national dialogue about solving this issue. mitch mcconnell is, for the first time in a long time, showing a little bit more openness. the president says wayne lapierre of the nra spoke to him and he might be able to get behind upon some things he was talking about. that's an amount of political capital to do something with. >> melissa: do you think they will use it? a >> guy: i think it will be tricky when you get onto the specifics of legislation. if we are debating about something that would hypothetically help in the future but would not have prevented these tragedies, you're going to get a lot of pushback from ordinary citizens were saying, "where are you going to infringe or restrict my rights when i've done nothing wrong, when it wouldn't have even prevented these things are happening in dayton and el paso chemical school etsy legislation first >> melissa: next month's plan of the controversial movie, "the hunt" come in the wake of the mass shootings in el paso and dayton. was it the rice

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boost® high protein. be up for life. ♪ >> kennedy: universal pictures canceling the release of the controversial movie, "the hunt." the film is billed as a satire, but regardless it sparked a backlash over its depiction of privileged vacationers hunting so-called "deplorable" for sport. in a statement released to foxes over the beacon, universal saying, "we stand by our phone makers and will continue to distribute films in partnership with bold and visionary creators like those associated with the satirical social thriller, but we understand that now is not the right time to release this film." so what do you make of them pulling this? what does it say about the movie and about the tenor in some of these green light meetings? >> guy: i would say we can chalk up a victory for the outrage mob this time on the

right. they won, in this case. i think it's ridiculous. i was on "america's newsroom" last week and i said pausing promotions for the movie in the immediate aftermath of the mass shootings, i thought that made sense. but yanking the entire film because people got angry and the president tweeted about it? i'm not someone who believes that we should go the direction of censorship. also, to my trump-supporting friends, if you watch the trailer, it's very obvious that the good guys are the deplorables who have been drugged and kidnapped and are being hunted by left-wing elitists. i feel like -- >> gillian: so when is the better time? >> guy: >> guy: it's misplaced outrage. even if it was well-placed, i don't think we should be counseling canceling movies. if you don't like it, don't go see it. >> gillian: in the state with they say i was not the best time. so when is the best time to make >> guy: i think they should release it as scheduled next month. i think that's what they should have done. i do also like from that statement they put out that they

stand by their filmmakers. in what way is it standing by your filmmakers when you cancel the film? >> gillian: they probably figure no one is going to go to this movie if it's release right now. in order to preserve their potential box office sales, they will pull back and release it when sadly and inevitably the new cycle moves on, and maybe they will be able to preserve the box office earnings. >> melissa: or review so it to netflix or put it whatever he does on demand, and there are so much buzz, people want to see what this thing was that was so controversial that it had to i'm sure it would make her money. >> capri: they wanted to make sure there was no liability, so probably there's a bunch of lawyers. the >> guy: it's a revenge fantasy, that's what it is! it seems very obvious to me. >> kennedy: i would like to hear from a reviewer. preferably an objective one, to talk about what the tone of the film actually is. how you end up rooting for, whether or not the characters are well developed. if you have an emotional connection with them or if it's

a look at where we've gotten as a society, that we are so verbally and physically violent that we have actually lost control and perhaps that's the satirical -- >> gillian: i spoke to a friend who lives in hollywood the other day, and he said don't read too much into this. they are yanking this, don't buy their statement. like everything else in hollywood, it's a financial decision. the decision to pull was purely a financial decision, as capri said. they do the math, they figured out that maybe sales were going to tank right now, so they said let's hold off and wait until a better opportunity. >> kennedy: they are probably looking at -- >> gillian: i think that's probably true. >> kennedy: maybe we can stand up to toy story 14.5! [laughter] one of the few republicans in the silicon valley, at least openly, sounding off of the feud between mitch mcconnell's campaign and twitter. what he thinks the g.o.p. has a right to be suspicious about perceived bias. >> the twitter mcconnell thing, you can say it's an

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he posted a video of protesters yelling threats and obscenities outside his home earlier this week. facebook investor and board member peter thiel says republicans are right to feel suspicious about possible social media bias. >> if you had a lot of campaign donations from senator mcconnell, we might say, "well, this is an innocent mistake, and we will complain about too much." that's not what is actually going on. it has sort of the feel of a very unhealthy 1-party-state in a way that's not good for silicon valley or for the politics of this country. >> gillian: and melissa twitter said in response to thee blocking of mcconnell that it was something an algorithm developed. in the days since then, actual people who work at twitter have weighed in on this. they stood by it.

>> melissa: not only that, algorithms are written by peopl people. frankly, i think the right has proven their case that social media is biased against them. i'm sick of them complaining about it, i want them to do something about it now. in the form up you have peter thiel tell you it's true. here is somebody who knows a lot about technology. why don't you organize the people together and create another platform? competition is the way to do something about this. the president has the power to move all of his followers somewhere else. why doesn't the 2020 campaign get together and create some other platform for the president to use, and to bring people over to it? if you feel like it's unfair, the way to do with that competition. that's what it's about. >> gillian: what about something that came out of the white house early this week, that president trump is mowing over this idea of an executive order that would kind of ramp up regulation of the company's? he would give some oversight to the ftc and the fcc.

do you think that's a good way to go on the schematic >> kennedy: absolutely not! a >> gillian: i knew you were going to say that! left max that's the worst way to go. there are places like twitter -- it happens in certain parts of the country. you live inside a bubble and you are surrounded by people who agree with you. that's how you get a one-party state. that's how you get the mentality that it's okay to limit other people's speech, because their disagreement with you is in its own right somehow offensive. that's an attack on you. >> gillian: anti-conservative bias on social media -- >> kennedy: they need conservatives is much as they need liberals. they have to realize that. we've talked about the popularity of the president's twitter account. that's what they have to embrace. when you have an account that is political and verified, you need some digital due process. clearly, mitch mcconnell's team was not inciting further violence.

they were demonstrating what was happening. >> guy: that's the problem, it's a transparency issue. these huge platform say there is no bias. you are crazy to think so. you don't understand, it's this algorithm. well, if that's the case, you have to apply the standards evenly and explain to us in a way that makes some sense why there appears to be disparity. this video of someone threatening mcconnell because he's highlighting this was happening, and suspended his account. the senate majority leader should be able to pick up the phone and say, "what's the deal? can we get a human being to look at this relatively quickly?" and fix the problem. >> gillian: but human beings did look at it. even then, they stopped by it for another couple of days. that's what's interesting. >> guy: the left-wing comedian, sarah silverman, within a few days she treated a video of somebody making vile comments and threats against her to highlight what was being directed at her. and that video stayed up.

>> capri: where is the consistency? >> gillian: capri, do you feel like anti-conservative bias on social media is a real thing? >> capri: it seems that way. seems like there is this "shadow-banning." i've seen tweets blocked and not necessarily know why. i agree with you, melissa, i think the answer is a market one. peter thiel is that of the founders' fund, it's a major fund in silicon valley. frankly, full of conservative or liberty-minded individuals. most of them have roots at the stanford review as a stanford alumni i know a lot of these people in those orbits. >> kennedy: creative platform. >> capri: there are plenty of conservatives in silicon valley who have the juice and the wherewithal to create an alternative. >> gillian: the juice and wherewithal. that's a good final comment. we will leave it there. more national anthem protests over the weekend, but not in the nfl. this time gold medal winners on the world stage. should they face consequences? we will debate that coming up

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>> melissa: two gold medal winning u.s. athletes staging protests at the pan am games over the weekend. taking a knee during the national anthem, and the hammer thrower raising her fist at the end of the anthem. the u.s. olympic and paralympic committee releasing this statement in response to the protest. "we respect his right to express his viewpoints, but we are disappointed that he chose not to honor his commitment. our leadership are reviewing what consequences may result." in the meantime, he took to twitter sending out a picture of his protest, writing, "we must call for change. this week i'm honored to represent team usa at the pan am games, taking home gold and bronze. my pride, however, has been cut short by the multiple shortcomings of the country hold so dear to my heart. racism, gun-control,

mistreatment mistreatment of immigrants." gwen berry speaking out during an interview with "usa today," saying that somebody has to take a stand against injustices. what do you think? >> guy: this dude's name is literally "race," so that is very woke. write out the gate. [laughter] this is the most anyone will talk about it on national television. i don't care. if he has a problem with the country, i think his gun-control piece of that tweet -- i think he meant gun violence, but he can do whatever he wants. this is not something that is going to raise my dander. i'm sort of over the whole kneeling thing. if this is what he wanted to to for attention, he has succeeded. i'm not going to give him the satisfaction of having steam come out of my ears over a fence or kneeling at the pan am games. like, okay. >> melissa: i wonder what the penalty is prayer they're talking but reviewing it, they are not allowed to do this, i guess. whatever. it feels some calculated at this

point. one of those things where you're hoping you'll get attention, or you are looking at the way that it worked out for the other athletes in terms of their sponsorships, or whatever. i don't know, what are your thoughts? >> kennedy: is it commitment ia commitment. depends on the sport in the league, but if you are sending the united states -- particularly with the u.s. olympic committee -- they have strict rules. it if i tell you not to protest during these moments, that means you can protest during any other moment. i don't have as much a problem with gwen barry because she waited until after the anthem was played. that's an iconic gesture. for some reason the kneeling bothers me more. >> melissa: what do you think? >> gillian: i would say that, first off, the rules are the rules. it's a pretty clear-cut case. somebody in this instance violated the rules. presumably there are penalties that will be implanted. in that sense, it sort of an open and shut case. but it is also true that the majority of americans feel like the podium, whether it's at the olympics or the paralympics or

the pan am games, or even a high school's swim meet, is not really the place for activism. athletes, pro athletes in this country have a long history of political activism. they have every right to use their platform in whatever way they choose. >> guy: but not that literal platform. >> gillian: not the literal platform we are representing your country. it has a different feel because it's not like you are nfl and playing for. here, you are representing the country. >> capri: i want to be consistent on this point. previously, i have said things about how president trump has conducted himself while he's abroad. lobbying insults on twitter, doing the sort of thing. where i feel like if you are abroad you are representing the united states. we need to feel the same way in this context. the bill of apples and oranges. we are representing the united states abroad. it the shortcomings, talk about at home, not representing the

country a global stage. >> melissa: thanks to all of you for joining us. it was great to see you back here. we love having you, guy. we are back on the couch at noon eastern tomorrow. now, here's molly line in today for harris faulkner. >> molly: fox news alert, we are awaiting the autopsy results of accused child sex sex traffr jeffrey epstein at the circumstances behind his apparent suicide sparks and new questions and multiple investigations. let's go "outnumbered overtime." i'm molly line in for harris faulkner. how did one of the most high-profile inmates in the world die in federal custody after his first suspected suicide attempt last month? that will be the subject of probes underway by the fbi and the justice department as we await the medical examiner's findings. attorney general william barr this morning saying he is appalled by the circumstances surrounding epstein's death. as he vows to seek justice for his accusers. >> we will get to theotm