it has since turned negative, down 46 points. something we will certainly watch as the day progresses. we will see you back tomorrow morning. >> jon: we will be back in the morning! >> sandra: "outnumbered" starts now. >> jon: thanks. >> shannon: we begin with a fox news alert. joe biden's 2020 campaign suddenly on the defensive. a new national poll shows the former vice president's lead cracking amid what looks like now a three-way race. at the top, among biden and senators bernie sanders, and elizabeth worden. this is "outnumbered," and shannon bream. here today, fox business network anchor dagen mcdowell. town hall editor and fox news contributor, katie pavlich. host of "kennedy" on the fox business network, kennedy. it would be weird if it was called anything else. joining us on the couch, robert wolf, former economic advisor to president obama and fox news contributor. he is "outnumbered." welcome, good debbie to a! >> robert: good to be here. wolf and the fox dan, i heard. [laughter] >> shannon: i don't know! >> robert: blog post. >> shannon: we are only 14

months out and there's a new poll shaking things up. we will have to see. there will be a few more polls between now and then. >> robert: are not a buyer of the poll. >> dagen: save it! [laughter] >> shannon: let me tell you more pay the joe biden campaign electability argument now finding his support is shrinking with rivals bernie sanders and elizabeth warren's urging. they find bite and support dropping 13 points just since june as sanders and warren are now tied for first place at 20%. biden at 19% to make this a virtual three-way tie. the biden campaign quickly pushing back, calling the poll an outlier. writing, "poll after poll also confirmed that because of the high stakes of this election, democratic primary voters are the most energized about a nominee who can take on and defeat donald trump. joe biden is by all accounts the candidate best positioned to make that happen." the real clear politics average showing biden ahead of his nearest rival, bernie sanders, by 11 points.

and former dnc interim chair, donna brazile, says, "do not rule biden out." here is her take. >> yeah, we want a winner, but we want someone who can pull together the obama-biden coalition of 2008 and 2012. that is a winning formula, as well. while joe biden had some competition, there is no question about that, he remains a very strong candidate. >> shannon: meanwhile, vice president mike pence reacting to senator warren's rise in the pool >> to be honest with you, never thought i would see a group of democrats is liberal in my life. you have candidates that are advocating policies that would literally crush the american economy. higher taxes, medicare for all, the green new deal. the combination of these literally would place trillions of dollars of burden on the american people. >> shannon: katie, that kind of gifts of this whole discussion here. you have these two wings of the

democratic party. joe, the mainstay, viewed now as a moderate although he would argue that he has been progressive and is paid compared to the rest of the field, is that where primary voters go connector they go for the left? it seems like with the white house wants is that contrast. you heard the vice president they're talking about crushing the economy if you go that route. the five are not a democratic primary voter, but i do know the electability argument has fallen apart for both republicans and democrats, cycle after cycle. whether it's hillary clinton or mitt romney against barack obama. this is something people like to talk about. it's something they try to gauge. until you get past the primary and into going to be, it's going to be difficult to tell what that electability means. it is true, the country as a whole is not as far left as elizabeth warren. they don't agree with taking away the private health insurance of hundreds of millions of americans, as a result of a medicare for all system. in terms of joe biden and polling at this point, if he

really wants to remain the front runner, he is going to have to want it to. up until this point, he has been coasting along as a front runner. not really giving in to lots of campaign events, being really strong on the trail. if he really wants to be nominee, he will have to fight for it. because elizabeth warren certainly is. >> shannon: in our own polling in the last two weeks, it shows she has had this huge surge since march. 60 points, i think, in our poll. kennedy, it's not just that now. it's also the crowds. we solve this we can, the estimated one her crowds at 15,000. it feels like now she's got momentum. >> kennedy: it does. she has gotten past the dna test. certainly, if she is the nominee, president trump will bring that up and use that as a battering ram. to her credit, and i think the thing that she is using to her advantage, is the fact that she had so many policy positions and she also has the passion. of all of the candidates running on the democratic side, i think right now she is walking about

and possible tight rope. because you have to appeal to moderates and independents, and never-trump-ye are republicans they always have to pacify that very loud progressive state. she's a progressive darling. they pick up the phone. that's why she does well in polls. if you are a fan, you want to scream that from the mountaintops. the other thing she is doing courting the democratic party establishment. we have to see if that's a massive enough addict regulation. or she wants it so badly she will turn that into her next policy paper as a riddle to figure out. >> shannon: speaking of that, "the new york times" talking about her trying to win over the establishment, they say, "ms. warren steadily rises in the poll for less. she works diligently to progress her left flank, and publicly and even more in private, she is signaling to party leaders that apart from wanting to stage a political revolution in the fashion of mr. sanders, she wants to revive the beleaguered

dnc and help recapture the senate while retaining the house in 2020." robert, that has to sound like music to the party >> robert: so many things in the last few minutes. i peeked in the first minute, i've done that. let's start with the polls. the poll yesterday had 300 people that give that poll. the poll this morning, morning consul, had 17,000. the political poll today had 5,000. both of those showed biden north of 30%. both of those showed bernie and elizabeth somewhere between 15% and 20%. if we look at polls that have a larger swath of people -- and if you take that and look at the poll, you have about a third in the moderate, which is biden, on his own right now. you have about a third and the populist left. what kennedy said, where it seems like the momentum is with warren. then you have a third kind of

between 2% and 10% that we don't know. i would say there is no questio question, the "i've got a plan for that" with elizabeth warren that kennedy was referring to. what katie said, the electricity on the far left, that's right, too. but that's only about a third of the party. i think there is 65% of the party that is more moderate and only care this point about making sure we have our private insurance. we are not increasing the deficit. >> kennedy: [sarcastic laughter] >> katie: both parties are at fault for that happen. there's plenty to go around on that issue. we can do that later. and a lot of political debates, dagen, senator warren has been one of the once, when the others come forward like john tilling and others -- i will talk to him next hour -- and they say, "stop promising the stuff that we can pay for or do." she's the one who stood up and said, "i'm not here to campaign

about what we can't accomplish." she wants to swing on some of these revolutionary ideas. >> dagen: like wealth confiscation. we are back in the ussr but that one. i called her natasha and bernie sanders is boris. this is soviet-style economics, if you will. the wealth confiscation, 180 million people he lose their private health insurance. they have to go on the government plan. bernie sanders' green new deal. "we are taking with us pickup trucks and suvs that run on the gasoline you love, and we are going to spend $36 billion of taxpayer money to help people transform their lawns into food-producing or reforested spaces." so we will spend billions to teach you how to plant a garden. i appreciate that. do all those other people still in the race, as they fall away or if they fall away, do they fall into biden's camp? does that give him two-thirds of the phot?

vote i will quote the same philosopher and race car driver, ricky bobby. "if you eat first, your last." that's his problem. >> robert: as you know, i spent the last month in the democratic hotbed become martha's vineyard. everyone is talking about a brokered confection convention. people are worried there are two sections of the party. got the populist left, which may face not be 40%. the moderate, which may be 40%. this uncertainty, 20%. and we don't know where that's going to go. that's what the polls are saying. it's a real question, as these people dropped off at 1% and 2%, they go to biden or elizabeth worden. they may have already gone there. >> dagen: foot. you and the lack of enthusiasm. >> robert: the midterm shows there can be an excitement for health care as a right, but not taking way private insurance. >> kennedy: when democrats have said that on the stage, the

only problem is they've gotten booed off. john delaney and some of these moderates have said, "these are great ideas, but we can't afford $3 trillion a year on health care." they get booed off the stage. >> robert: is not necessarily those people represent the entire party. >> shannon: primary voters have a lot of lanes. >> robert: we have 41 seats that flipped. 's to >> dagen: i want to ask you, when do president obama and his wife parachuted in? >> robert: when there's a nominee. [laughter] >> shannon: on that note, new statistics show a sharp drop in arrests by the nypd since the firing of the officer involved in the death of eric garner. some comps are part of the saying that apartments no longer has their back. so our police afraid to get out there and do their job? what could mean for officers nationwide? plus, russia blocking a visiting

senator ron johnson after president trump advocated for inviting russia back into the g7. and move some fellow republicans call a bad idea. we will debate it. >> this president does not need to be defending vladimir putin in 2,000, particularly over his invasion and illegal usurpation of crimea. he doesn't need it in the middle of a presidential election. ♪ ok everyone! our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy. and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. let's see, aleve is than tylenol extra strength. and last longer with fewer pills. so why am i still thinking about this? i'll take aleve. aleve. proven better on pain.

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daniel pantaleo was simply doing his job and now he could be seen as so-called "pantaleo effect" here in the city. statistics show arrests down 27% between august 19th, the day he was fired, and august 25th, compared to the same time period last year. please making just making over 3500 arrests compared to 4800 as the same year before. law enforcement sources tell the post while there is no organ i slow down, cops on the street clearly feel the department doesn't have their backs. as one officer put it, "who wants to be the last cup standing? if someone is in trouble and needs help, or if a cop is in trouble, obviously you do it you have to do as a police officer. but if it's discretionary, why put yourself in harm's way?" if that's the mentality, why not find another profession? >> robert: i think it's a tough time in this city and a tough time around the country. i don't want to relitigate eric garner although i have to make a

statement that he should be alive today. with respect to the police officers, we saw a couple weeks ago the show was showing when they were being thrown water bottles on the street side. that was despicable. for them to do their job, but to make sure citizens feel good about how they do their job. we certainly haven't figured out, as homelessness builds, the city becomes -- >> kennedy: and what are we asking of police officers? because if there is this kind of morale erosion, you have to wonder. in a city where the mayor, it seems, has been working against the police force his entire administration. i don't know how you ever build that trust back. >> shannon: i think it's difficult, too, because there's nine suicides in the nypd this year. they've reached up their officers in numerous different ways, saying "we understand you are under excruciating pressure." this kind of stuff adds to it

when they feel like city hall doesn't have their back. at least that's what they are verbalizing. it'll feel like they have protection. many of them, i talk to former officer last night who said they are afraid to do their jobs. that there will be a lawsuit, a claim. so, yes, they will show there's a call for help. for 911. they may not be pursuing things on the street they could be. we saw this after freddy gray's death in baltimore. there was a period of pulling back from the officers there who said -- there were charges brought against them, they were either acquitted or the charges were dropped. they felt they were really demonized in that situation. i think this differently morale issue. i don't know how to solve it. >> kennedy: how do you find the balance? >> katie: first of all, police all over the country put their lives on the line every day to do a really tough job and they have to make split-second decisions that are also life or death for them. that doesn't justify when there are bad cops that do bad things. they certainly should be punished and held accountable so communities can have trust in

the police. but there's a big misconception about this idea of the police are there to protect you. the the supreme court has rulede police don't have a legal obligation to step in in a violent confrontation between you and another person. so they don't have the legal obligation to do that, but they do it because they signed up for the job and that's what they want to do as a profession. everything, kennedy, the police are scapegoated a lot of the time for bad policies that lawmakers put into place. >> kennedy: and mayer and mayors. >> katie: police are in charge of enforcing the law. not making the law. the reason eric garner was approach that days because he was selling cigarettes on the street. you have to be taxes on cigarettes. that's why he was approached as it was a crime. they want their up 30% tax or whatever it is. if you look at the bigger policies. why are we even approaching people to arrest them for things like that? are be over penalizing things like selling cigarettes on the street?

that fuel situations like this? there's a broader question about police in dangerou being able tt criminals. the crime rate going up. which goes back to this idea, why would you sign up for the job if you can't have people have your back or have policies but i do that work for you? i think a lot of the time the police are used as a scapegoat. >> kennedy: new york city is a unique place. we have seen what happens when bad people do horrific things. not only day today, but also on 9/11. and we task cops with being counter terrorists. solving these crimes before they happen, in addition to -- as robert pointed out, the homelessness you see not only in new york but other big cities across the country. >> kennedy: don't ask me if you're one of the mayor's initiatives is to close rikers island. the prison population has to drop the population to about 5,000. it was 9400 when bill de blasio first unveiled

his plan. it was 7400 in july. there's been a massive reduction in low-level crime arrests. this plan, this goes to the almost population, which is one of the causes out in california in places like los angeles, this dramatic reduction of people who would be in prison otherwise. somewhere there is going to be a breaking point, where low-level crimes turn to more violent crimes if the streets are full of people and you have a police force that can't or won't arrest individuals. who are committing crimes regardless of how you want to characterize them. >> kennedy: very good discussion. fox news learning a decision is imminent on a possible indictment of former deputy fbi director andrew mccabe on charges of lying to investigators. president trump's frequent criticism of the fbi. plus, moscow denies a republican senator -- his name is ron johnson -- six hours after

president trump calls for the g7 to readmit russia to relations with the u.s. >> a lot of people say having russia, which is a power, having them inside the room is better than having them outside the room. ♪ my insurance rates are probably gonna double. but dad, you've got allstate. with accident forgiveness they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. indeed. are you in good hands?

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senate resolutions calling for a stronger response against russia for attacking and seizing ukrainian ships. the senator saying this in a statement. "the past vladimir putin has chosen to russia is a tragedy of historic proportions. instead of holding free and fair elections, respecting the rule of law, and integrating russia's economy with western democracy, putin has invaded georgia, attempted to illegally annexed crimea, conducted war in eastern ukraine thousands of died, and supported a barbaric regime in syria." meantime, former white house deputy chief of staff, karl rove, said it would be a terrible mistake for president trump to invite to put into next year's g7 summit, which will be held in the united states. >> i think would be terrible for the president politically to invite them next year, particularly if it's in his club, to come to the g7 and make it the g8 again.

>> dagen: robert, what do you think? >> robert: a few things. i'm surprised he hasn't blames it on president obama that ron johnson couldn't get of us. because he seems to blame everything else with respect to vladimir putin on president obama. i totally agree with ron johnson. i totally agree with karl rove. i think what has gone on the last couple days, the president touting vladimir putin to be part of the g7, is horrific. i think karl rove said it right and ron johnson said it right. this is a guy that has supported assad, who has taken sovereignty from ukraine. i hope the president respects what ron johnson says that i would like him to tweet out ron johnson's response. >> dagen: we've gotten tough with russia in myriad ways. you may not pull out of the intermediate-range nuclear forces treaty that was signed by ronald reagan and mikhail gorbachev? we have actually tested a nuclear-capable tomahawk cruise missile that could strike a target more than 310 miles away. >> kennedy: we are buying greenland.

[laughter] >> shannon: i don't know -- >> kennedy: soviet missiles right in her bosom! i said that on purpose. a bunch of commies. go ahead. [laughter] >> dagen: you can follow up on that. >> robert: i'm going to stay out of that dialogue. [laughter] >> dagen: we are the number one oil produced in the world and we are sending more liquefied natural gas to europe to offset the power that russia has. >> kennedy: is interesting, because with the country, thanke fracking and the beauty of much cleaner fracking and the technology we have developed here. but that hurts russia. the biggest anti-fracking campaign you see, not only in the world but here in the united states -- if the disinformation campaign from russia itself. i don't think they are trustworthy. i don't understand what it is about the president that he is constantly reaching back to vladimir putin trying to pull him in a normalize him. i don't think there is normalization. i think they are hostile.

i think they want to do well for themselves, and they don't care if it causes us harm. so, no, g7. g7 looks much better. that a solid branding. speed when i get what he's saying. all these conversations we are having, these big economic powers, involve russia in some way. that we have to make decisions involving them, they are not a party to the conversation, we have to go around. but this is one of the things i've seen in washington that almost immediately you see a number of g.o.p. senators stepping up and breaking with president on this. pointing out all the bad past behavior in crimea and everything else. and saying that they don't deserve a seat at the table, even if we are discussing policies that involve them. we have to make decisions that consider their economy and their interest. they have not earned their way back in. plenty of republicans saying they are not with the president on this. >> katie: the president has pointed out that while the europeans want to keep the russians out of the g7, which is understandable, they are also fueling their economy. gone after germany for buying energy from russia.

so they talk a big game when it comes to putin's influence, but they are actually fueling what's left of his awful economy that he has developed. the president has a rift when it comes to republican senators who are involved in foreign policy and national security on this. but his strategy is one of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer." he tries to talk to these people and is open to talking to everybody, because then you can get a better understanding of who they are and a better strategic plan against them. is it administration has been very tough in terms of sanctions and going after allies for funding a lot of what vladimir putin is doing in terms of meddling in the european elections for example. >> dagen: i will divide the talk versus the walk. sometimes you have to know that president trump is just saying things to make people's heads been here in the united states. >> kennedy: -like nuking era came? >> dagen: people who wear makeup for a living, male and female. it's in front of television

cameras. it's the walk. what this initiation is done with the energy sector. that takes power and leverage away from russia, now that we are the number one oil producer in the world. last year, 5% of the energy, mineral fuels and oils, imported into europe's five largest economies, 5% share came from the united states. that was an all-time high. it might not be allowed, but it's growing. and that is power that we are taking away from russia. >> katie: they are the only real economic factor that russia has. once you take that away from them, they are even more desperate. that would hopefully change. >> robert: we are not talking about ways to compete with russia and how we are really changing their economy. >> kennedy: you know how we are commuting? tito's vodka! >> robert: we are talking about whether they should be part of making the g7 and the g8. that's the premise of this conversation. >> kennedy: no. >> katie: if the iranian prime minister zarif can show up

on behalf of the french -- >> kennedy: emmanuel macron. he's doing anything to get traction. when french people don't like the french president, you know it's over. >> dagen: i will just end on two words -- tito's vodka. the clock is ticking for former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe, as federal prosecutors are close to deciding whether to charge him with lying to investigators. what kind of message an indictment would send, and what this case could mean for the public's trust in the department of justice. ♪ >> when it comes to the department of justice holding themselves accountable, they are horrific. ♪

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♪ >> here you have the deputy director, the former acting director, recommended for

criminal prosecution by the inspector general. now they've got a decision to make. are they going to hold the department of justice people accountable to the same degree they do the rest of the world? so far, they have shown no backbone to be able to do so. >> katie: former house oversight committee chairman, jason chaffetz, weighing in on a potential indictment for andrew mccabe. this, as fox news lines prosecutors appear to be in the final stages of deciding whether to charge the former deputy fbi director. mccabe is accused of lying to federal investigators, which he denies. he was fired over the same issue, but "the new york times" points out it might be difficult to convict him, writing "prosecutors may face headwinds if the case were to go to trial." one prosecutor to quit the case and has expressed frustration with how it was being managed. additionally, washington juries are typically liberal and prosecutors could end up with jurors sympathetic to mr. mccabe. shannon, i want to go to you come with your legal expertise. just to recap, the inspector general in april 2018 recommended based on the

evidence that andrew mccabe be prosecuted, because he lied under oath multiple times to fbi investigators. now, andrew mccabe has put people in prison for lying to the fbi. the question now is whether there's a double standard for him simply because he works there. >> shannon: he has said repeatedly this works it on my case was a missed medication, and he was in the midst of a public firestorm. he is saying no wrongdoing, there was nothing deliberate about his attempts to mislead federal prosecutors. but we've seen so many of these cases. george papadopoulos, michael flynn. if you like to investigators, for a lot of people come you will go to jail. for all of us probably on this couch, we'd be in serious trouble. but there are so many unique, special things about this. we know he has had frontal meetings, or his legal team has come with a couple of top prosecutors. that suggests they wrapping this up making a decision. that's the last time your team has to go in there to make a case of defense for you. there are things like injury in washington. we know how that would play out. when it so high-profile, yes

that all along this is political in nature. there's a lot of people who might listen to that argument, that conversation, and won't want to seem like they are a political one way or the other. but with a case like this, it's almost impossible to escape the conclusion that someone is going to draw. whether you go for him in prosecuting or whether you don't. in some ways -- >> katie: is that ultimately up to the u.s. attorney? >> shannon: they will have to decide. >> kennedy: that's who his lawyers have been meeting with. i'm wondering if they are trying to craft some sort of a plea deal so they don't have to roll the dice on the jury and hope they get a more left-leading jury who would be more sympathetic with andrew mccabe. if there's anyone who knows about politicizing this issue, it's andrew mccabe. who has come out -- he is so clearly dead set against the president. so nonobjective now. he said before the mueller report was released at the president was possibly russian assets. you've had a look deep inside the graveyard. you know where the bodies are buried. >> dagen: and he got a job

from cnn for saying that on cnn. it was like a week before the mueller report came out. i just had a point that out. >> katie: robert, i want to ask you a question about this. andrew mccabe is partially responsible for completely destroying the credibility of the fbi in the eyes of the american people. shouldn't he be held to the same standard that any regular american since and should be, based on the evidence that the inspector general, who is an impartial player who has worked for obama and trump, should he be held accountable to the same standard? >> robert: there is no question the inspector general is neutral. those watching this might say he's guilty, and those on other channels might say he's innocen innocent. i think there was absolute wrongdoing here. whether it's to the point of where he should have just been terminated for cause versus something more than that, i'm not sure. i do think there is probably a settlement to be done. right? because he is counter suing. i don't know if counter suing is the right word. for reinstatement and benefits. my guess is there is something to be done. >> katie: is that privilege, dagen?

doesn't have that privilege that the regular average person doesn't have the same ability to fight back against the president dell not government with the monetary resources or the status he has? >> dagen: that goes to the issue of a level playing field. let's ring-a-ding-ding martha stewart, who was in prison for lying to federal investigators. the most juicy thing and this is a potential witness in a trial would be jim comey. because jim comey -- and this is from "the new york times" article -- "the inspector general believes mccabe had strong reasons to hide the clinton foundation disclosure to "the wall street journal" from coming, because he would likely not have approved it. mccabe has that he told comey about the revelations of the newspaper he prayed, he says he does not remember that conversation." >> katie: fact is stranger than fiction, as they say! especially washington. >> kennedy: we take truth over fact! [laughter]

>> katie: [laughs] the lawsuit against the tarp administration over its rule change on migrant family detection don't like dissension. do they have a case, or is this more about opposing president trump? we will debate up next. ♪ too many people in pain settle for

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♪ >> shannon: new york and california boarding the lawsuit trained against the trump administration. this time, over its rule changing migrant family detentions. the suit now includes 19 states and the district of columbia. white house believes the rule change, which would allow migrant families to be detained indefinitely, will permit families to stay together as courts decide their cases. but california's attorney general says the rule is dangerous. >> this new rule puts at risk the safety and well-being of children. it also undermines, as i said, a decades-old agreement reached in court by the federal government to prevent the unlawful detention of the immigrant children. >> shannon: the former acting ice director, tom homan, believes the change actually gives the migrants fair treatment. >> if we detained them long enough to see a judge, if he says they need to leave, we have them.

we can easily put them on the plane and send them home. once they get out, they are in the wind, there's a couple hundred thousand out there. we have over 800,000 fugitives with orders to remove that have not left. >> shannon: this comes at the justice department asks the supreme court yesterday to override an injunction that would allow the trump administration to implement a regulation making most migrants from central america and other countries and eligible for asylum at that u.s.-mexico border. that's if they go through a safe third country and don't stop there first. a lot of legal stuff to unpack here. kennedy, let's tackle the first one. >> kennedy: you should interview yourself! [laughter] >> shannon: it would be super boring if i interviewed myself! anyway, let's go with another human being. kennedy, let's talk about this. a couple things here, the first is this detention, the flores settlement, says you can only keep them for 20 days per they say they need more time to process people otherwise they release them. as tom homan was saying, we have hundreds of thousands of people release into the u.s. not all of them show up for the hearing. we have no way to track that.

>> kennedy: i think we are focusing on the wrong thing here pay to get caught up in the minutia and the details and we haven't figured out what kind of in the immigration system we want. if there some kind of consensus, because i've always believe that there is. we talked about this during the break, the democrats don't want to give the president a win on this. even though the president talks a lot about the wall and has made building the wall a central issue for not only his campaign but his administration, i think there are ways of opening the doors a little bit to good people. when you detain people and when you prohibit them completely, and essentially put them in prison, it's an awful climate. you really are punishing those children. you can't release those children, because then you put them at risk. god only knows who is going to come pick them up. having said that, as a parent, cannot just put your child in a situation where you don't know the outcome.

there is too much immigration uncertainty. >> shannon: what we see, too, is a lot of countries -- especially south of us -- there are ads and things telling people that if you get to the u.s. this is what you can do. people are coming here with inaccurate information, come here and realizing, "oh, no, there might be a separation. i might be in the detention center for much longer than i thought." but the numbers are so overwhelming and the current situation. i don't know the administration has a lot of choice other than releasing people. >> robert: it's hard to come up with a good answer on the seven. for immigration reform, if we set down, politics aside, we could come up with some good answers. pathway to citizenship for those who have abided by the law, take care of the daca recipients. that said, asylum is a different thing. i don't like the new idea that president trump is going for. the word "indefinite" is very scary. you're going from 20 days to indefinite. i'm just saying what it said.

we have two have much more granularity on what that means. number two, i would agree that putting kids in these detention centers or whatever we're calling them, for a long period of time, has got to be harmful to the kids. all that being said, i answer to asylum is we actually have to fix what's going on. in these countries, why they are coming here. i think cutting off funds was the wrong thing. if you want to be clear, a silas something different than people just coming here. >> kennedy: places like el salvador and honduras, we are given cartels were now in power millions and millions of dollarss that they score for themselves. >> katie: i want to address this issue, the word "indefinite" is inaccurate and a false portrayal of what's happening per they are being detained until the court date. until they can be processed through the court system. right now the flores settlement used to be 20 days. the average will be 40 to 50 days. so indefinite is a term being used but it's not accurate. when it comes to the asylum

issue, asylum is about fleeing persecution by the government. there are multiple countries that these people are going through, that they have a don't like the ability to claim asylum in. the drug traffickers and cartels know what the law says and they are telling people, "you will be able to get released into the country." because of the way the system a set up. so they know exactly what they're doing. it's falsely claiming asylum because you do have the opportunity to do it in previous countries. the system is there. it's being abused, and the effort here is to make it so they can't come and just be released, then feeling that human trafficking network of people who pay. >> shannon: a quick update, this emergency filing fee administration to that the supreme court yesterday, justice kagan, i got a note, she has now asked for a response by next wednesday, i believe it is. that's going to move through rather quickly, potentially, the court. we will keep you all informed as it comes down. democratic women outnumber republican women five to one on capitol hill. but some organizations want to

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♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ >> kennedy: the republican caucus might look a little more feminine come 2020. [whistles] nbc news reporting a record number of republican women planning to run for congress after the number of g.o.p. congresswomen falling during the 2018 midterms. right now they're 20 compared to 106 women on the democrat side. on the ground they say the enthusiasm is palpable. they reveal nonpartisan women's campaigns, "in the history of our school, we have never seen this before. they're tired of being quiet and they know they have a lot to give." what does this say about the reshaping of the republican party, that women are now energizing and mobilizing? >> robert: i think it would be good if the republicans had more

women, period. but we've been hearing this now for over a decade. the democrats have gone up threefold in women. the republicans i think are flat. >> kennedy: why is that? >> robert: i think a lot of the policies. my guess is it relates more to women. my guess is the democratic party is more aligned. >> kennedy: i think there are people perhaps on this couch you might disagree with that. >> katie: dagen, you can dig in on that! >> dagen: more people don't like women holding office as republicans and conservatives, you would have a more fiscally responsible republican party. since women are better with money than men are! [laughs] >> robert: i would agree with that. >> katie: women have been treated in a much worse fashion that democratic women who have run for office. sarah palin is an example, she was completely destroyed. democrats love it when women run who are democrats, on pro-life,

fiscally response will come of conservative, or pro-trump ideae completely destroyed. when it comes to running for office i think democrats and republicans have different values and priorities in life and maybe a and women have put running for office aside because they think of the things more important. regardless of party -- >> kennedy: they see washington as a total cesspool. who would want to jump into that nasty? >> dagen: women like getting things done, and be like accomplishments. whether it's by the hour or by the day come by the month, by the year, by a life. you go and join the swamp down in d.c., still a swamp full of fan boats. you go down there and you don't get anything done. you get paid to do nothing. that's why you see so many people dropping out. >> robert: what you guys have just said, it seems like more republican may not run. >> kennedy: you never know. >> katie: i just think he put a lot of emphasis on the gender aspect of it should be what you

are running on m4. republican women, it's much harder for them to run based on the way they've been attacked. >> kennedy: you were fantastic. thank you, robert wolf. back on the couch at noon tomorrow. here's shannon and for harris. >> shannon: we begin this hour with a fox news alert. drugmaker johnson & johnson going to appeal after being slapped with more than half a billion dollars in penalties for its role in the opioid crisis. this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm shannon bream in for harris faulkner. an oklahoma judge finding johnson & johnson liable for stoking the opioid crisis in the state and ordering the company to pay $572 million. the bombshell ruling being watched closely as 2,000 other pending lawsuits are set to be heard. an attorney for the drugmaker slamming the decision. >> we are disappointed and disagree with the judges' decision. we believe it is flawed.

johnson & jo