sometimes the emoticon. >> what is your favorite expression. >> that one. >> you got one? >> yeah. >> okay. all right. maybe the nerd glasses for you. >> do you see it? see you tomorrow. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> fox news alert. the war of words is heating up. iran's foreign minister has threatened all-out war if the united states or saudi arabia launches military strikes in response to the attack on saudi oil facilities. you're watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today sunny melissa francis. anchor dagen mcdowell and jessica tarlov. in the center seat, we have bucks sexton on-time with his expertise. he's our guest outnumbered. >> good to see you.

>> president trump has ordered new sanctions on iran after the attacks in saudi arabia. now iran's foreign minister is ruling out talks with the u.s. unless washington drops the sanctions. again, he's denying his country is involved in the oil facilities attack. he has a warning about any retaliatory action. >> an all-out war. >> that's a serious statement. >> i make a serious statement about defending our country. i'm making a very serious statement that we don't want war. we don't want to engage in a military confrontation. we believe that a military confrontation based on deception is awful. it will have a lot of casualties. but we won't blink to defend our territory. >> all of that after our secretary state mike pompeo doubled down on blaming iran for the attack.

>> there were no americans killed in this attack. any time you have an act of war of this nature, there's a risk that that could happen. the saudis were the nation that was attacked. it was on their sale. it was an act of war against them. >> the vice president mike pence says the united states will not back down. >> and whatever action that president trump determines is proper, the american people can be confident that we're going to defend our interests, defend our troops and we're going to defend our allies in the region. >> formally of the cia, buck, what can you tell us about the type of thing that they would look at to determine that this was iran? >> they've been sifting through the wreckage of the drones and what are believed to be cruise missiles. there were 19 total fired off. 17 hit targeting. just based on what they hit at these oil facilities, it's a

sophisticated strike. much more than what the houthis could do. one thing that is truly concerning here, the missiles and drones were fired off and didn't actually get pinged on our radar or saudi radar. >> why not? >> because they were flying so low and slow to the ground. they didn't show up. this was a sneak attack. and now the iranians are behind this. it's a question of where they fired them off from and how much we can prove on the world stage. looking at the iranians and understanding that they still have a check of hormuz. it's not just the straits. >> so the armed services committee person and congressman garamindi says you need to know the details and he doesn't feel like war is the answer.

what do you need to know in order for there to be support for any action the president might want to take? >> everyone has their suspicions. seems like 100% confidence on the part of mike pompeo -- >> so you think -- i want to narrow in. you think democrats couldn't back or wouldn't back support, military action if all of that information -- >> it's going to be split. we had senator chris coons on "fox and friends" parroting a lot of what you're hearing from republicans. we have to keep in mind, america is a war-weary nation. it was a direct attack on saudi arabia, not the united states of america. there's many people including the president and leading figures in the democratic party that are sick and tired and have pledged to make sure that we're in less wars, not more. >> all right. i want to go to senator james risch who says the president doesn't want war.

watch and we'll get into it more. >> this president does not want to go to war. he's not a war kind of a person. he wrestles with these in a very, very serious way. he doesn't want to do this. as he has pointed out, sometimes you wind up having to do stuff you don't want to do. >> so what are some of the collateral stuff that you might not want to do that you have to do? i'm thinking oil, i'm thinking money, sanctions. like what is the collateral? >> that would be the other damage that would come from taking action. not so much in the world of oil necessarily. i mean, i think the world is awash in oil. we have plenty of it. that's why we didn't see the stock market react sharply. so it's not really about that as much as that this is just a continuation and an escalation. it's not about this one incident in saudi arabia. it's about the fact that they are provocating more and more in

the straits of hormuz. and i would ask you why. why do this? and say we didn't do it. >> iranians lie all the time. >> what do you gain by that? >> i think they're hoping to get us to blink. there's domestic political considerations to fact for in. the economy shrunk 3% last year. should shrink as much as 6%. >> so they want to attack and react. >> they want to show that we'll back off and perhaps achieve greater leeway for negotiations with us and the e.u. the saudis spend third most on their defense budget behind the united states and the people's republic of china. we're selling them these weapons. it's an act of war against saudi arabia. shouldn't that react? >> and they pay cash. >> and representative mccall from texas said the same thing. he was part of looking at those deals for selling those weapons. >> and we're the -- we have the

world's largest military budget. so between us and saudi arabia, we've shown iran and the world that we couldn't stop these attacks on these oil fields. so i ran, the "wall street journal" writes about this, i ran will come if we don't do something at this point, iran will hit other oil fields next. let me just finish this idea. kuwait, the united arab emirates. it could send prices higher if you hit supplies. you send europe in recession. they have to violate the sanctions on i'll exports on iran in order to make sure that they're well-supplied with oil and relatively inexpensive war. lindsey graham suggested hey, go after an oil field or an oil refinery in iran with a targeted strike. is there room? >> you saw the president's response to that. >> he's more with rand paul than he is with senator lindsey

graham is. there room between going to the u.n. and war? >> the president said yesterday that the u.n. play as very important part. he doesn't think that they have reached their potential. he still sees then as being important for this conversation. before we come to you, the president also said yesterday because we caught him between marine one and air force one headed to the border, he said there's time to make a move and it's easy to start that conflict. >> we have the strongest military in the world now. i think it's a great sign of strength. it's easy to attack. if you ask lindsey, ask him, how did it go into the middle east, how did that work out. how did it go into iraq work out. >> you can see beside him, the new national security adviser, o'brien. buck? >> part of the problem here is that not only did the saudis spend a lot of money on this

military equipment, their usage of that equipment by leading this coalition to get rid of the houthis in yemen least a lot to be desired. people can't tell if it's recklessness or lack of skill. so then it's is the u.s. better positioned to strike on behalf of saudi arabia and we also have to ask the question, do we want to get involved in not just an iranian and saudi conflict but proxy wars across the middle east. this is an enormous mess. we hope the saudis will be an ally, but -- >> but would a refinery strike in iran, is that war? that's my question. >> the iranians you can argue have been engaged in acts of war against us and we have no retaliated. they have mamed and killed u.s. soldiers for years and we didn't take action against them. we did against their proxies in iraq at the time. how the iranians would react? they excel at lying about what

they have done, attacking weak spots and weak points. if this turned into a full scale conflict, we would annihilate the iranian military but then what happens? >> i want to get in with this breaking news. we have this from the vice president, mike pence. he's talking right now, being asked about iran. he said the attack on saudi was the largest attack on oil infrastructure in history. it was an act of war. whether they came from the houthi or iran, came from careful investigation, buck, which is what you said. and surrogates we're imposing sanctions, we'll be limiting the visas for those coming to the u.n. general assembly. remember, that's going on this week through the end of september here in new york. we will defend our interests in the region. anyway, i wanted to pump that breaking news into the conversation. jessica? >> yeah, i wanted to add quickly that john bolton, the ousted national security adviser was

speaking last night and had thoughts on this and would recommend everyone look at. he's concerned about this. the second thing which is important to bring up in any conversation about iran is the nuclear deal that we pulled out of. there's many including mike pompeo that had confirmed that the iranians were not violating the terms of the deal. we not to be considerate of the fact that we may not be in this situation whatsoever -- i understand the asymmetric warfare argument. if we stayed -- >> it's a ridiculous argument. when you say that we weren't allowed to inspect any facilities, where we thought things were going on, they could designate where we could look, the deal was worthless. >> i just want to add this. we got to where we are right now with iran because of the deal, because of the billions in money sent to iran and the billions in business that all of these other nations have done with iran and funding terrorism.

that's how we got here. >> we're turning money that we had taken is not the same as handing them cash to commit terror. >> it wasn't supposed to be given to iran. it was -- >> we can all agree that it was spent on terrorism, right, buck? no matter where -- >> there are -- >> we will come back to this conversation another day. >> there were many that said that iran was complying with the deal. >> there was no pay -- we can do this all day. >> we could but we can't. okay. spreading awareness or guilt stripping. one network wants you to post your climate confessions. it may have already backfired. and controversy has exploded over newly uncovered images of canadian prime minister justin trudeau with another incident uncovered. wow! >> i shouldn't have done it.

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>> i take responsibility for my decision to do that. i shouldn't have done it. i should have known better. if it's something that i didn't was racist at the time but now i recognize it's racist to do. >> that was from yesterday. canadian prime minister justin trudeau begging for forgiveness after two videos surfaced. one showing him wearing brown face. he darkened his skin for a part where he taught. he admitted he did something for

talent show while in school. and now a video was released showing a third incident of trudeau in black face. he plans to hold a news conference later this afternoon after a video just surfaced as we said showing him with his face and arms darkened again. he face as tough re-election fight. his conservative challenger slammed him last hour. >> canadians would have accepted the apology if he didn't lie about it. he asked if there were other incidences. he said there was one other. we know there's at least three. an apology based on a lie is not a real apology. >> buck, what does this mean? >> if we're going to have rules about this for public figures of any kind, whether media, politics, everybody has to live under the same rules, whatever that is. we've seen it, seems to me, a shift in this based on what happened in virginia

specifically, governor northam, do you have to resign. people just down the street from here have gotten fired from their jobs for talking about black face on tv. so when you see justin trudeau doing this and apologizing, most of the people on the right will be saying, does this mean now that if you apologize it's all right or if you apologize somebody that liberals like, then you get to live to fight another day. >> kay ivey has admitted she did this. she didn't resign. she's there. >> so these are the rules? i want to know what the rules are. >> i have no idea what the rules are about this. we'll hear from justin trudeau. i'm particularly upset with the fact that he was 29 years old when he did this. >> it wasn't college. >> it wasn't college. absolutely. i thought that ralph northam should resign. that was because his nickname was coon man in year book.

it wasn't because he had donned black face in that photo even though there's a good argument that he was the one in the kkk robe. i don't think that's acceptable in our politics. >> let's talk about that. because canadian politics are not american politics. what i have curiosity about, the calculus on racist behavior in canadian politics. he's liberal. it's not the same thing as an american liberal. you talk about a layering of behavior with northam. let's talk about it with trudeau. i look down to say this. i want to get it right. so on the third incident, might have been the second actually, "when i was in high school, i dressed up at a talent show and sank dao with abdulmutallmakeup" you're right. he's 47 now.

he was teaching at a private school when he wore black face, this is many incidents. i don't know what the calculus is. his opponent will leverage it for sure. >> we have the video of the third incident now that we were just talking about. we want to show it to you so we know of what we're speaking. i guess there's no sound with it. we're looking at him in this outfit. the liberal party has confirmed that that is him although it's hard to tell from that video. what the heck is going on there dagen? >> he will get a pass because his liberal if he's contrite and awoke or whatever the word is that you use these days. imagine this man who is almost 30, it's the 21st century, sitting in front of a mirror putting on dark makeup to dress up as aladdin? it's shocking that he's that clueless and was elected to the highest office in canada. you know why he will get a pass?

because he's the son of a famous person and he's good looking. that's the bias and liberal. that's the bias that we have in this society. by the way, there's no excuse for this because the internet was alive and well when this was happening back in 2001. if you're a globalist, you'd know if you ever did -- i grew up in the rural south in the 70s and knew this was offensive. if he didn't know if this was offensive, i don't know he got elected being that clued out. >> over time if enough liberals in this country, leftists and liberals got caught up in something that you did 20 years ago -- i agree, this is horrible judgment. this is something that nobody ever thought was okay. at some point, liberals can say grace and forgiveness -- what you done is your apology is used

to finish you if you're a conservative. >> and he's somebody that has pounced on and called our president a racist and talked about racism and pointing out to other people. if you're going to dine on sanctimony -- >> what you're saying is -- you're putting the accusations of president trump up against the evidence. that's the big argument, right? we talked about it on the couch. the evidence of someone in black face and all that it conjures up and the song and several incidents of this with someone who -- who is critical of the united states and our president. >> and corrected a woman that said man kind. he went -- it's human kind. >> what kind is it when you may ultimately choke on sanctimony? >> i don't think it's fair. i find this abhorrent. i don't think it cancels --

>> he's a hypocrite. >> i don't know why -- >> he's calling someone a racist and acting racist himself. >> that's the definition of a hypocrite. >> i don't think that what he did there means that he can't be an objective observer of things going on in other places. that doesn't mean that i think he should stay in office. i don't know what happens. >> okay. a brand new fox poll with potential warning signs for joe biden. what the change in his numbers could mean for the democratic frontrunner. plus a mechanic suspected of sabotaging an american airlines jet accused of ties to isis. >> what we have to be worried about is the lone wolf actors.

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>> an american airlines mechanic is accused of tampering with a jetliner that happened in july. now he's been denied bail after

prosecutors say he had an islamic state sponsored video on his cell phone. one video showed people being shot. that mechanic is being charged with disabling a key navigation system on a crowded passenger jet forcing the align to abort take off in miami. an affidavit from a federal air marshall says the mechanic did it in hopes of getting overtime pay. prosecutors also say the suspect told co-workers that he had a brother that was a member of isis and that he had traveled to iraq earlier this year. here's congressman and former navy seal, dan crenshaw. >> it's one reason why we can't take our eye off the ball. isis not defeated. they still have a presence around the world and we need to root them out. they're capable of spreading propaganda and radicalizing people in the united states. >> once again, i lean on your path in the cia. what type of good intelligence are we getting on who is trying to jump into isis right now and

can we catch guys lake this before they get started? >> there's active investigations across the country. we don't hear much about them because there's not a terror attack on u.s. soil in awhile. when you look at a individual like this, this fits the profile of what you expect alone wolf jihadist to be like. it's believed his brother in iraq may have direct ties to the islamic state. when you hear his justification, it doesn't hold water. there's no way you would endanger people for overtime pay? >> can i ask you the obvious questions, american airlines, 9-11. september 11th. have we learned nothing? has that airline -- is this indicative -- they're taking criticism that they didn't dough what they needed to do. >> it's hard to vet people. we used to go through a whole spectrum at the nypd and it would walk you through this

process of going radicalization to jihadism. it's incredibly to catch someone unless they make a mistake and post online or we have an undercover near them to blake american airlines, if there were to red flags to catch, what would they catch? >> there's no blame. >> i understand. but it's difficult for airlines to do the kind of vetting necessary to avoid a situation like this unless we find out more from his past. >> based on the reporting, this man worked in a hanger for disabled aircraft. so he should not -- he got caught not because of intelligence but he tampered with the data module system, which is part of the navigation that controls airspeed, tampered with it. there was an error message when the plane tried to take off and they went back and found out how he tampered with it and security camera footage how he gained

access to the department housing under the plane's nose. that's how he got caught. so why isn't this attempted murder of 150 people rather than tampering with an aircraft? why shouldn't he go to prison for life or worse rather than getting 20 years in prison in by the way, he worked at american airlines for 30 years and worked at alaska airlines, fired from alaska airlines. there was overlap. he filed a complaint, discrimination lawsuit. alaska knew well enough to fire him. >> it's part of the question and the criticism. i hear what you're saying. don't blame them. nobody is doing that. but we can ask questions -- >> the possible terror component, this may never be really adjudicated in court. he faces 20 years in federal prison for the airline tampering. this way this may go, we can get

him on that. the other stuff about the terror may be more difficult to sell to a injury. he may take a deal based on tampering with the airlines. may never get it fully adjudicated if he was doing this on behalf of isis. that happens sometimes. >> would someone do this because they're disgruntled about their contract or overtime? we've seen workplace violence because people are not earning enough. so obviously stuff on his phone matters, the isis propaganda. there's a number of people that are not being paid what they feel like they should be paid. >> we'll stay on the story. new fox news polling on the 2020 race shows joe biden still leading all of them but it's not all good news. bernie sanders back in second place. voters revealing what they think makes it harder for a candidate to beat president trump. oh! oh! oh!

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>> fox news alert. new fox polls on the 2020 race. while joe biden still leads, his support dropping to a new low. bernie sanders climbing back into second place. elizabeth warren though in a close third. most democrats say electability is the most important quality and most see biden as having to best chance to beat president trump. but primary voters narrowly say they prefer a candidate that will take a new approach over one that will build on barack obama's legacy. it's a statistical tie when it comes to backing a candidate that will change the political system versus one that will restore it before president trump's election. what do you think about this, jessica? when we have joe biden 29%, sanders in 18, elizabeth warren at 16. >> if you're elizabeth warren, you're hugely happy with what's

going on. i went to her rally monday night in washington square park. it was electric. people were hanging on her every word. she made her first real general election pitch where her new slogan has become i am not afraid. she's telling people, you don't need to vote for somebody because you're afraid. if you like what i have to say, let's go for it. nobody knows what electability means. she was laser focused on talking about the african american community. she talked about the pay gap. she singled out african american women that make 8 cents less on the dollar than white women. you've seen progress with her in the african american community -- >> you like her bitter than biden? >> i like biden and warren. my politics are with joe biden. i'm moderate. i like his healthcare message. but elizabeth warren's campaign is the most fun. she's got the picture -- >> i'd like to have a word.

>> i'm not buying it. >> you are looking at this based on who you like most. most voters say in deciding democratic primary vote, more important to support a candidate that can beat donald trump 56%. you like most, 31%. >> yes. joe biden's electability argument is important. people lose sight of the fact that his policies poll better with democrats. we're not a far left party. in 2018, we elected moderates. joe biden is a moderate. >> this is interesting, too. we want to bring this up from the polls. remember, they're asking democratic primary voters what makes it harder to beat president trump. look at this. they said it's harder -- 50% say it's harder if you're gay, it's harder if you're a strong liberal. 49%. harder if you're a woman.

harder if you're a person of color, 33% a white man over 70. so it's interesting if they think those -- democrats think those things are a handicap for their candidate. >> the only thing is the age issue, which is relevant. one of the problems that democrats will have is that they have made trump's health, his weight, mental fitness, all of these things have been talked about in the public as reasons why trump is terrible and he's awful. joe biden has looked shaky in a lot of contexts. there was that report where they said they were trying to move his stuff to later -- make sure there wasn't stuff later in the day because they were worried he's going to get tired. if you're worried about that, you shouldn't be signing up for being leader of the free world. >> i get very tired late in the day. >> i get tired early in the day. >> dagen, what are your thoughts? >> voters still predict president trump will be

re-elected despite how all of the democratic candidates match up with trump that is a reversal from december of last year when by 13 points voters would say trump would lose. something is going right if they're predicting that at this point. joe biden does very well with the voters that help trump win. not as well as trump in a head-to-head matchup. but one in first president obama's 2012 white working class defected from the democrats in 2016. you have to have somebody who can bring those voters back. jessica, just a cautionary note, don't base enthusiasm in a liberal bastian like new york city. >> i'm not saying -- >> again, that's what got everybody trouble in 2016. >> president trump putting the spotlight on the west coast homeless epidemic and blaming the policies of democratic lawmakers. is there room level for

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>> president trump is ratcheting up his feud with california lawmakers. he's threatening to issue an epa notice against san francisco saying the homelessness are responsible for used needles watching into the sewer. the major says it's ridiculous. housing secretary ben carson writing "your letter seek federal dollars from hard working taxpayers but your policies have played a major role in the current crisis." the la major with this in a facebook post. >> i wanted to talk to him a little bit as if he had come down here to south l.a. to understand and to hear the challenges we face and ways that washington d.c. may be able to come and help us. it's time to pause politics and not to demonize americans on the street. this is your watch,

mr. president. this is our watch. this is our time to do something. >> we know that bipartisan compromise is something difficult to come about, too. you'd think that homelessness would be somewhere where that is possible. where do you think we go from here? >> obviously conservatives and the trump administration will want to see a change in some of the city policies that have led to what are huge spikes -- i've seen it in l.a. there's regulations about housing and expenses that make it harder. so asking for federal dollars, people say hold on a second. homelessness, which is a serious issue is a local issue. if the local government is messing up, the answer shouldn't be just throw a lot of federal dollars at this. there should be a willingness to look at what are they doing wrong here. by the way, new york city, 2. i have a word for de blasio.

>> it's a public health issue. it's more about politics. it's about the health of the population. if you look at -- nbc, the bay area station in nbc, did a report during sweeps. you know it's serious during sweeps. they want to see what's going on. they found 300 piles of feces and drug needles in the ender loin neighborhood. if you have local numbers counting poop to bring a message saying this is out of control, you have to wonder in a city where they have high taxes and very wealthy people and it's among the filthiest to the point where local news is going out and investigating. >> this is a problem though say in san francisco. i lived in san francisco 19 years ago. it was a problem then and only gets worse. >> it's worse. >> what happens is, they think that throwing money at it will fix it. the money gets wasted and then you have people, the voters, getting in the way of fixes.

voters in l.a. voted to raise property and sales taxes, spend the money on reducing homelessness but continue to oppose building new shelters. again, not in my back yard. in 2004, voter as proved a sur tax on millionaires to fundamental health treatment. $2 billion over a decade. totally wasted. you let people out of jail, stop incarcerated to reduce prison spending. it doubled. it's a waste of resources and people that don't really want to fix the problem. >> so i think it's fascinating when the president gets involved in something like this, inserts himself, then suddenly it's no longer just local tv. it's no longer that local issue. it's a health issue. >> seems to be a trend that major cities that we know are democrat strong holds, new york, los angeles, others, have

decided to take a softer approach to drug use in public. they want to legal -- >> what does that mean? a softer approach? they're not going to prosecute -- >> i lived in the bad days of new york in the 90s when people lived out on the streets. there was drugs, all kind of mess. if you called the nypd, there's nothing we can do about it. people that pose a public health hazard have to be dealt with. finally in a humanitarian fashion. letting people wallow in fit is nod good. >> somebody drew giant rocks at a friend's windows and smashed the windows. they send them to the hospital and let them out. if -- >> broken windows. >> if somebody shop lifts, the cops don't show up. they're not arresting people in new york. so what happens in california is going to happen here. >> before we conclude this discussion, we should talk about things that we should be investing in, mental health programs, affordable house

programs, something that -- >> we are and the money is being wasted. >> i'm no de blasio fan so -- >> we can all agree on that. >> so feeling guilty about leaving the air conditioner on all day. one network has a website where you can post your climate confessions. surprise, it's been fleooded by internet trolls. ♪ what's going on? it's the 3pm slump. should have had a p3. oh yeah. should have had a p3. need energy? get p3. with a mix of meat, cheese and nuts.

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>> nbc news wants you to come clean on climate -- post your climate confessions. one person said i sleep with the air conditioner all year round and justify it by recycling. another says i would like to recycle more since i drink 40

bottles of water per week. the recycling truck comes on the day i sleep in. >> it implies i have something to feel guilty about. i only conserve electricity to lower my power bill. another says i like my house to be 85 in the winter and 55 in the summer. deal with it, hippies. you're new hippie, buck. i thought it was evidence why these big climate change proposals will never work. people don't want to be told what to do. >> you can see it from the democratic candidates. they get asked questions, the straw thing, that's silly, right? it's a threat and maybe we can't have straws and everybody says stop eating red meat? these things won't catch on. climate change is a religious belief for people who think they're too smart for religion. they're asking for forgiveness. do you think there is a world where it makes a difference?

>> they have catholic guilt and going to confession but they have forgotten about god so they worship the environment instead. i thought that for a long time that environmentalist many has replaced religion. you see it with kids in schools. one of my kids their class said their motto was treat myself well, treat my friends well, respect the environment and i was like that's love your neighbor as yourself and god above all things. it's the same thing. you replace who is in there. >> i think it's funny for nbc like cnn if you're out there holier than thou people really don't love sanctimony and they'll end up shoving it down your throat. >> the biggest weakness, the spoke persons for the -- they have a young girl who is 16. asked her about the fed rate next? >> come on. >> she is a kid. >> i'm not picking on her but

she is testifying in front of congress because of climate change. >> no kid bashing. >> especially a kid who is more alert to the challenges facing our planet than a great number of people. >> this was -- i read all of these -- a lot of them yesterday. it came across like bite my hamburger. you won't tell me what to eat. >> i'm not -- the green new deal was a little too broad for me but it is a good thing. this approach is silly but encouraging people to recycle, compost or do whatever they can. >> this encourages people to make fun of nbc is what it did. >> it had that effect for some people. >> americans do not like being told what to do. don't tell me what to eat or drive. the liberals have to hide the cost increases so people can't see it and get angry. buck, thank you so much. good to see you.

i like the buck faces you make. we're back tomorrow at noon eastern. here, harris, now. >> harris: new this hour developments in the case of a former american airlines mechanic who is now accused of trying to sabotage a crowded passenger jet. prosecutors now say the suspect may have ties to terrorism. you are watching "outnumbered overtime". i'm harris faulkner. a federal judge denied bail to the ex-mechanic after prosecutors claim he state videos on his home and has a brother who may be involved with that terror group and he is an iraq native who has already attempted or admitted to tampering with, i should say, with the boeing 737 in miami last july forcing pilots to abort taking off. meanwhile, a former c.i.a. official is putting some of the blame on american airlines. >> the thing that causes me concern at least is he